http://www.sitcomsonline.com/blog/2007/07/sitcomsonlinecom-special-networks.html

Discuss.

Ok, they are going on Nielsen ratings and like it was pointed out in the blog, if 10 Nielsen watchers are watching Fresh Prince and 1000 NON Nielsen people watch Mary Tyler Moore, then what is the point of the Nielsen, really? It seems only NIELSEN MATTERS. What abt the voice of the people through other mediums?

People complain on the networks' websites, people email and snail mail these networks, but do they pay attention to that feedback? Nielsen is NOT the only thing they (the networks) should pay attention to.

Its a big sellout. These networks use the people to start their networks up and as soon as they become successful they sell out. They become what every other network is. They tell their audience that made them a success in the first place...thanks...but we don't need you anymore. And they had to have been successful in the first place. It was their niche programming that got them picked up by these cable companies. People calling the companies as well asking that so and so be added to the lineup. And I do believe they don't care about classic television or anything. It's always the bottom line with them. And thats why I barely watch N@N, TV Land, AMC, GSN and I can go on and on....anymore.

Its a big sellout. These networks use the people to start their networks up and as soon as they become successful they sell out. They become what every other network is. They tell their audience that made them a success in the first place...thanks...but we don't need you anymore. And they had to have been successful in the first place. It was their niche programming that got them picked up by these cable companies. People calling the companies as well asking that so and so be added to the lineup. And I do believe they don't care about classic television or anything. It's always the bottom line with them. And thats why I barely watch N@N, TV Land, AMC, GSN and I can go on and on....anymore.
:yeahthat:

Not to mention, it seems every other network and cable channel is showing FRESH PRINCE. It is obvious that what works on one network, the other networks/cable channels follow suit. Rather than being "different" they simply want RATINGS. It really seems like this is what the networks are saying: if FRESH PRINCE is what brings in ratings, then, to hell with any other shows and the audience.

:yeahthat:

Not to mention, it seems every other network and cable channel is showing FRESH PRINCE. It is obvious that what works on one network, the other networks/cable channels follow suit. Rather than being "different" they simply want RATINGS. It really seems like this is what the networks are saying: if FRESH PRINCE is what brings in ratings, then, to hell with any other shows and the audience.
They should just start The Fresh Prince Network....all Fresh Prince...24 hours a day. :lol:

I am tired of hearing that "they need to make money argument" as a justification of airing their crap, especially considering the fact that I am paying $55 a month for a cable bill and being left unsatisfied with their stupid programming decisions.

They should just start The Fresh Prince Network....all Fresh Prince...24 hours a day. :lol:
:rofl: Hey, I wouldn't put it past some network to do that. N&N seems to already be on that path. :crazy:

I haven't had cable since I moved to California three months ago. And surprisingly, I don't miss it.

I haven't had cable since I moved to California three months ago. And surprisingly, I don't miss it.
All I use it for mainly is for sports and movies. Their are an awful lot of cable channels that could be blank for all I care.

It's impossible for networks to sell out, as the entire point of a business is to deliver the highest profit possible. You don't have to like it - Lord knows I've lost most interest in the television business, but it IS the way it is.

I am tired of hearing that "they need to make money argument" as a justification of airing their crap, especially considering the fact that I am paying $55 a month for a cable bill and being left unsatisfied with their stupid programming decisions.

If you don't like it, drop the cable package. Enough people drop the package and your cable company will drop the channel to the digital tier or off their lineup entirely. At that point the network's household availability drops.

Of course, here's where life's a...female dog. If the availability drops, but the dropped carriage doesn't eliminate any Nielsen households, then the network's audience share actually goes UP. Ain't life wonderful.

I'd flip to see N@N running Odd Couple, WKRP, Mary Tyler Moore, and a bunch of other shows I'm crazy about. But for whatever reason, the industry likes the Nielsen system, so that's what we're stuck with. But the example I cited, 10 Fresh Prince vs. 1000 Murphy Brown...is very unrealistic. In reality, it probably is closer to 1000 Fresh Prince vs. 10 Murphy Brown. But I needed to make the point.

There ARE a few networks that still care about their audience. AmericanLife is one for sure. They want to program shows their audience will enjoy, not just what delivers the best ratings. (a reason they're not behding over backwards for better carriage). In a perfect world, that's how things would work. But it's not a perfect world, sadly.

People complain on the networks' websites, people email and snail mail these networks, but do they pay attention to that feedback? Nielsen is NOT the only thing they (the networks) should pay attention to.

It helps better than saying nothing, but not a lot. Regular mail works a lot better. If they get enough viewer feedback, then they DO have proof that there IS an audience perhaps not represented by the Nielsen numbers. That's how Jericho got renewed.

Should they listen to their viewers more? Damn straight. But sadly, they don't.

It's impossible for networks to sell out, as the entire point of a business is to deliver the highest profit possible. You don't have to like it - Lord knows I've lost most interest in the television business, but it IS the way it is.



If you don't like it, drop the cable package. Enough people drop the package and your cable company will drop the channel to the digital tier or off their lineup entirely. At that point the network's household availability drops.

Of course, here's where life's a...female dog. If the availability drops, but the dropped carriage doesn't eliminate any Nielsen households, then the network's audience share actually goes UP. Ain't life wonderful.

I'd flip to see N@N running Odd Couple, WKRP, Mary Tyler Moore, and a bunch of other shows I'm crazy about. But for whatever reason, the industry likes the Nielsen system, so that's what we're stuck with. But the example I cited, 10 Fresh Prince vs. 1000 Murphy Brown...is very unrealistic. In reality, it probably is closer to 1000 Fresh Prince vs. 10 Murphy Brown. But I needed to make the point.
The problem is you can't drop just that one channel. The cable companies have it set up so you have to drop others as well so people are stuck with them. That's why I don't belive Comcast when they talk about how its unfair for some costumers to have to pay for the NFL Network when they don't watch it. I bet most costumers don't watch half the channels they get.

As for Fresh Prince...I do like that show and would chose it over MB anyday of the week but I wouldn't want to watch it 24 hours a day.

[QUOTE=Seth]
If you don't like it, drop the cable package. Enough people drop the package and your cable company will drop the channel to the digital tier or off their lineup entirely. At that point the network's household availability drops.
[quote/]

You seem to forget, that dropping individual channels is not an option with most major cable providers. Therefore, for the time being we are stuck paying for cable channels we do not want.

That's why I don't belive Comcast when they talk about how its unfair for some costumers to have to pay for the NFL Network when they don't watch it. I bet most costumers don't watch half the channels they get.


I actually watch the NFL Network. The above that you wrote is a perfect example of the bad judgment calls that the people in charge of the networks and cable service make on a daily basis when it comes to programming choices.

[QUOTE=Seth]
If you don't like it, drop the cable package. Enough people drop the package and your cable company will drop the channel to the digital tier or off their lineup entirely. At that point the network's household availability drops.
[quote/]

You seem to forget, that dropping individual channels is not an option with most major cable providers. Therefore, for the time being we are stuck paying for cable channels we do not want.
Exactly. I wish their was a system in place where the public could only get the channels they want.

Some things to keep in mind...

—The Price is Right is extremely popular in college dormitories, yet all the commercials are for products that appeal to older people because Nielsen doesn't measure dorms.
—The average age in this country is 36. Yet advertisers only go after the 18-34 demographic. Heck, I'm IN that demographic and I couldn't care less about a lot of the stuff they expect me to like. Still, advertisers have spent too much time catering (some would say pandering) to the under 35ers that they've systematically ignored the growing segment of people over 35.

I think the people in television aren't making TV for the audience anymore; they're trying to impress critics and their supercilious pseudo-intellectual friends. The executives need to remember that they are not the audience.

They've become so obsessed with the bottom line that they forget about what goes into it.

Of course, I do not watch N@N, TVL, etc. because they show cut episodes of TV series. I just wait for the DVDs. That's another thing to consider. Fans of a show no longer have to wait for some of them to come back to TV to get their fix. There's DVD, there are those who taped the shows already and watch it from their tapes, and there is of course another reason reruns disappeared from local stations: infomercials. Nobody watches them, but stations get paid to air them. Then there's talk shows. These are original shows and therefore get more ad rates than reruns. Even though these "old" shows are new to new generations of audiences who are starving for good entertainment.

The problem with TV Land is that it is a graveyard for classic TV. Once they air a show no one else will touch it because "only the old geezers like it." They have turned classic TV into an undesirable niche.

This whole "don't trust anyone over 30" stuff should have gone out with bell bottoms. I think the Chinese have it better in the fact that they revere their elders.

I think the people in television aren't making TV for the audience anymore; they're trying to impress critics and their supercilious pseudo-intellectual friends. The executives need to remember that they are not the audience.

They've become so obsessed with the bottom line that they forget about what goes into it.


Good point!

I didn't say drop the channel, I said drop the package. If the channel bothers you that badly, no sense spending money on a channel package. If not that badly, just don't watch the channel.

I didn't say drop the channel, I said drop the package. If the channel bothers you that badly, no sense spending money on a channel package. If not that badly, just don't watch the channel.
Except if you drop the package you'll probably lose another channel you want. That's the way they got it set up. So basically I just don't watch them.

I should mention that the specific rant you saw today is...sort of tape-delayed. I wrote that a month ago, after a couple of really bad days with a person (not here) trying to assign human qualities to a TV network. That's what really spawned the rant. I adapted it after seeing a few people talking about selling out, and boom.

It is selling out but thats what business do! If they didn't sell (out) airtime, they wouldn't be able to afford even the least popular show.

I have no doubts the rating system is flawed to an extent but a station fulfilling popular demand isn't wrong ... its simply the best way we have. Heck, for good or bad, thats the way we all elect politicians!:D

I think in the age of VOD and DVRs, the stations could do better to please more people ... there are some shows I like which never get marathons but some stations here put them on late at night, from 1AM to 5AM there are some gems that most people wouldn't like - I DVR them and watch them in my primetime!

Thank you Seth for responding to my part of the post abt the snail mail and the response the audience gives to the networks.

Jericho is a great example of a show that was retained due to SNAIL MAIL. I would think that E-MAIL would be just as good, considering that it is an easier method to which one could get their point across.

Family Guy is another example of a show returning, not from SNAIL MAIL, NOR FROM EMAILS, NOR FROM NIELSEN, it came from DVD SALES. DVD Sales of Family Guy was enormous. The networks realized what a gem they had and lost and decided to bring it back. I FOR ONE WAS ECSTATIC!!!!!

If that method (DVD Sales) of getting a point across worked, than all methods of telling the networks what shows people want to watch should be considered.

There was a few other shows that were brought back, what were they?

I think Touched by an Angel was brought back by snail mail ... but I have a feeling the Christian Conservative movement had a part in it, makes sense really.

I think Touched by an Angel was brought back by snail mail...but I have a feeling the Christian Conservative movement had a part in it, makes sense really.

I seriously doubt many Christians like that show. I personally believe the devil masterminded that show as a form of unholy torture.

I seriously doubt many Christians like that show. I personally believe the devil masterminded that show as a form of unholy torture.
And your small point is?

It was really well put when you gave us the whole Fresh Prince/Murphy Brown example, because how do we really know the number of people who watch these shows? Murphy Brown could be getting a lot more viewers than known, or Fresh Prince could be getting a lot less viewers than known, because if you don't have a Nielson box, then what's the point of even watching?

Plus, how does Fresh Prince continually get that good of ratings? There is no way possible that people repetitively watch the show over and over, airing after airing? It used to be one of my favorite shows when it came to NAN, but now I don't even dare to watch it, and I'm for sure not the only one.

It was really well put when you gave us the whole Fresh Prince/Murphy Brown example, because how do we really know the number of people who watch these shows? Murphy Brown could be getting a lot more viewers than known, or Fresh Prince could be getting a lot less viewers than known, because if you don't have a Nielson box, then what's the point of even watching?

Plus, how does Fresh Prince continually get that good of ratings? There is no way possible that people repetitively watch the show over and over, airing after airing? It used to be one of my favorite shows when it came to NAN, but now I don't even dare to watch it, and I'm for sure not the only one.
I asked that same question a short time back on a certain thread abt WHO ACTUALLY LOVES/WATCHES Fresh Prince. It seemed from the people who responded that the majority DON'T LIKE IT. Because that question was a post and NOT A THREAD, I would like to see a poll on this board so we can see a bigger picture of who really actually watches it on N&N.

I asked that same question a short time back on a certain thread abt WHO ACTUALLY LOVES/WATCHES Fresh Prince. It seemed from the people who responded that the majority DON'T LIKE IT. Because that question was a post and NOT A THREAD, I would like to see a poll on this board so we can see a bigger picture of who really actually watches it on N&N.

I'll get to work on it! ;)

I'll get to work on it! ;)
Great!

The things is - the folks who post here are only a small, tiny, subset of the audience. Fresh Prince is one of those shows that can be reran over and over, and many folks don't get tired of it. Don't know why, it's just that way.

That's another thing that networks need to learn: That old saying was wrong. Familiarity doesn't breed contempt, overexposure does.

Plus, how does Fresh Prince continually get that good of ratings? There is no way possible that people repetitively watch the show over and over, airing after airing? It used to be one of my favorite shows when it came to NAN, but now I don't even dare to watch it, and I'm for sure not the only one.

N@N probably inflates their numbers but I'm guessing it's because Will Smith is a big movie star now, unlike anyone on Murphy Brown plus MB has too much topical humor that nobody understands now, eventually the mass audience will get tired of Stale Prince and N@N will start overplaying something else (probably Family Matters or Home Improvement).

Would a protest outside the N@N headquarters do any good?

I am tired of hearing that "they need to make money argument" as a justification of airing their crap, especially considering the fact that I am paying $55 a month for a cable bill and being left unsatisfied with their stupid programming decisions.
I agree. I understand that making money is vital, it always has been and it always will be. But a need for money doesn't need that quality has to be thrown out the window.

I think everyone should have a Nielsen box. It'd be much more fair. It's all about kissing the demographic's behind. It's funny because I'm a member of said demographic as well as several other people I know and for the most part we are not satisfied with a lot of what we are seeing on television nowadays. I know it's not a huge number of people though...
I asked that same question a short time back on a certain thread abt WHO ACTUALLY LOVES/WATCHES Fresh Prince. It seemed from the people who responded that the majority DON'T LIKE IT. Because that question was a post and NOT A THREAD, I would like to see a poll on this board so we can see a bigger picture of who really actually watches it on N&N.
This is one of several shows I choose not to watch in syndication anymore because it's rerun abused into the ground. I really do like this show, but I'm afraid if I watch it a lot now, I'll wind up hating it. I haven't watched N@N or TVLand in months and this is one reason why. I love FP but the way they run it, it's like N@N thinks Christ himself is the star of the show. It's the same with Friends and Roseanne. I love both of those shows, but I don't want to get sick of them. Syndication is both a blessing and a curse.

I agree. I understand that making money is vital, it always has been and it always will be. But a need for money doesn't need that quality has to be thrown out the window.


To add explosive fuel to this subject, the major network conglomerates net worth is in the hundreds of millions to even billions of dollars. It is not like if a specific channel does not make as much money as it did the year before they are going to have to declare bankruptcy and cancel the network. For instance, if this were the case, then CNN would have to call it quits tomorrow for being at the bottom of the ratings barrel.

They are richer then I, or most people on this forum will ever dream to be, so I really cannot feel any sympathy for them when I hear that story that they are a business and they have to make money at the viewers expense.

I definitely agree with the whole "sell out" issue. Most cable channels air the same shows (marathons) as they're called. They need to change their line-ups more often and show all types of shows not just what brings in the real ratings. It's gotten to the point where I don't even want to have cable anymore because they don't air the classic shows that I really want to watch. Save your money and buy the shows you really want to see on DVD. You can only stand to watch the same episodes of Fresh Prince and Roseanne so many times.

I am tired of hearing that "they need to make money argument" as a justification of airing their crap, especially considering the fact that I am paying $55 a month for a cable bill and being left unsatisfied with their stupid programming decisions.

^ :lol: :lol:

here here.

—The average age in this country is 36. Yet advertisers only go after the 18-34 demographic. Heck, I'm IN that demographic and I couldn't care less about a lot of the stuff they expect me to like. Still, advertisers have spent too much time catering (some would say pandering) to the under 35ers that they've systematically ignored the growing segment of people over 35.

They cater to the people with the least money. Sure, they may be more impulsive, but c'mon. I never understood this practice.

Well Boston Legal caters to the rich, maybe networks are OK with the fact that 10 rich viewers are better than 30 poorer ones? But that doesn't mean those 30 poorer ones can't make more money, which is why networks would be catious to waste 1 hour of their schedule trying to get a small number of rich people to watch when they can stick just about anything on and get enough poorer viewers to be profitable.

I miss the days of networks targetting viewers aged 34-50s, families ... what is the closest thing to a family show these days? Two and a Half Men - a scary thought.

What happened to family dramas? Now we have CSI: Another Murderer, CSI: Rapist Edition & CSI: Serial Killers, not to mention Desperate Housewives, the killer sex addicts?

They cater to the people with the least money. Sure, they may be more impulsive, but c'mon. I never understood this practice.

The keyword is IMPULSIVE. Look at BET as the best example of catering to people with the least amount of money. Instead of creating original black sitcoms, drama and talk shows (like our Hispanic counterparts and thier networks that encourage Hispanics) they give us crappy music video shows and reruns of shows that ALREADY air in syndication on other networks. And yes this was happening before Robert Johnson sold the network to Viacom (who also owns MTV, VH1 and others).

NOBODY I know under the age of 15 watch BET. They keep appealing them and they don't have the money. They don't buy music they download it. How many times can you show an EDITED Soul Plane movie? When was the last time Soul Food: The Movie aired on BET?

And isn't rerunning shows to death killing DVD sales? I mean who is going to buy Heroes if it can be seen 50 times on tv. I noticed this about cable. HOw can any of those shows sniff DVD releases when they get reran to death especially Degrassi: Next Generation.