I finally saw this segment today when I looked at my TiVo and watched an episode from a couple days ago on LRW.

There isn't much to say about this one. I think the witnesses are credible, since there are four of them who have identical stories about a tarp being placed over the bodies. Also, the fact that the boys were nonresponsive to the train horn seems to imply they were already dead. Then factor in that the autopsy showed that they had been stabbed prior to the train hitting them. All this means you have a murder case.

The notion that the boys had been too stoned to wake up is malarky. I used to be quite the stoner in my youth and I have never seen anyone smoke so much that they couldn't wake up. Marijuana is not a drug that can be OD'ed on -- it's medically impossible. I saw a study that said one person would have to smoke FORTY pounds in order for it to be deadly. As many of you might know, it is impossible for one person to smoke that much. Is it possible the boys laid on the tracks intentionally? Sure. I don't find the notion THAT unlikely because in these rural areas, people do weird things to stay entertained. Two teenage boys, a bag of weed, and train tracks. I can see them getting high and sitting on them for some sort of thrill. In normal circumstances I would say this is what happened, but the autopsy simply shows that this scenario is impossible -- they were stabbed.

Now I will put forth my take on all of this:

The boys were spotlight hunting (this is very popular in the south, and many guys I knew growing up did this). I was never a hunter myself, but I do know that a .22 caliber would not be used on deer, so I assume they were hunting squirrel, racoon, or other small game. I think the hunting was sorta a teenage ruse to have an excuse to hit the woods late at night for some toking. This is wild speculation here, but I think it is POSSIBLE that the boys had some marijuana plants they were cultivating. This was rural Arkansas, keep in mind, and a lot of people in areas like this (I was raised in such an area) do grow their own. It is also possible they knew of a place where someone else was growing it, and they perhaps were stealing it, or had walked upon this other person "tending to" to his crop. I knew a guy in high school who was shot at while trying to steal a guy's crop deep in the woods. He actually came strolling home with a few pellets of bird shot in him. (Yeah I had some rowdy friends).

I don't think my speculation is all that far-fetched since we DO know the boys did smoke pot. Obviously they got it from somewhere, either from a dealer or someone growing it for personal use. In such a rural area, it lends to reason that maybe they were growing it or knew of someone who did. This is probably how they ended up murdered. I lean toward the idea they knew someone who grew it and may have walked upon the stash at the wrong time. Many pot cultivators do tend to their crops at night to avoid detection.

The lead investigator himself seems to think it was drug related. I also find the police incoorperation sorta weird, but I don't know if it qualifies as a cover-up or not. Unless the police were involved in the drug trade, I see no reason for a cover-up. The D.A. seemed to imply that they were indeed involved in such activity, so who really knows. I simply don't have enough info to make a judgement.

The lone stranger in camo seems odd too, especially since he shot at a cop very near to where the boys were found dead. Perhaps this guy is involved in some of the "shady" activity that was going on in the area. He may have had some involvement in drugs of some sort (which might explain him walking around in the area at night).

Basically, the only possible motive I see is drugs, probably marijuana. I wouldn't think it would be THAT hard to find a drug connection unless the cops are simply looking the other way. Pot growers and dealers in such rural areas are pretty much known by everyone.

Oh yeah, the fact that two other boys 200 miles away had been killed while laying on train tracks really gave me a chill up my spine. This happened like 3 years earlier. I find this astonishing and almost impossible to chalk up as a coincidence. I had forgotten about this coincidence until I had already written all of the above. If there is a connection between the two cases, it seems very likely that the drug motive would be tossed out the window. It could be just an odd coincidence, but I doubt it. If it is not a coincidence, this leads to the "serial killer" hypothesis.

I've never bought into theory of the lone drug dealer or perhaps the boys trying to steal some drugs off a dealer which resulted in their deaths. If they were the only two connected with this case that died, then maybe I could believe it but a lot more people who were connected to this case died under equally mysterious circumstances, in my view in the year after the boys were killed for it just to be a case of two boys encountering or stealing some pot off a drug dealer.

It goes much higher than that...there is some strong evidence that the D.A. Richard Garrett and his partner Dan Harmon may have been responsible for the boys deaths although they were probably not the ones who actually murdered them.

I just wonder why the teen carrying the gun did not defend himself.

yea i always wonder why he didn't defend himself as well, which leads me to believe there were many people at the tracks that night, probably w/ weapons(i.e. police officers), as that one lady in that video said. I just got the book on this case from the library last week and started reading it, it's a very interesting case, one of those cases that makes me want to become a detective.

From what I read neither boy was killed at the tracks...thats just where they laid the bodies out. Apparently they were overpowered in the parking lot of the Ranchette Grocery and these individuals got the jump on them and overpowered them before they were able to fight back.

Is it possible the boys laid on the tracks intentionally? Sure. I don't find the notion THAT unlikely because in these rural areas, people do weird things to stay entertained. Two teenage boys, a bag of weed, and train tracks. I can see them getting high and sitting on them for some sort of thrill. In normal circumstances I would say this is what happened, but the autopsy simply shows that this scenario is impossible -- they were stabbed.

It's possible, but I highly doubt it. The train conducter was blowing his whistle, and while I don't recall how many decibles it was, it was LOUD. The whistle didn't get so much as a flinch from either boy. In addition, someone on the segment said that one boy was dead by the time the train got there, and the other one was at least unconcious.

I still believe this had to do with the Mena drug ring.
They found a "drop site" time before and went back to search for more.
Though this time someone was waiting for them.

You can see that many associated with information on the case have been killed:
Keith Coney-had info on the case, and died in a mysterious motorcylce accident while being chased by a car

Keith McCaskle-McKaskle has information on the Ives/Henry deaths. He was stabbed to death 113 times in November 1988. He had told his family someone was out to kill him and told them "good bye".

Gregory Collins-Greg had information on the Ives/Henry deaths. He died from a gunshot blast to the face in January 1989. Declared a suicide

Jeff Rhodes-He had information on the deaths of Ives, Henry & McKaskle. His burned body was found in a trash dump in April 1989. He died of a gunshot wound to the head and there was some body mutilation, specifically that his hands and feet had been partially sawn off, leading to the speculation that he was tortured prior to being killed. The body was then burned.

Richard Winters-Winters were a suspect in the deaths of Ives & Henry, and had offered to cooperate. He was killed by a shotgun blast to the face during a "robbery" in July 1989, which was subsequently proven to be a setup.

Jordan Kettleson-Kettleson had information on the Ives & Henry deaths. He was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup in June 1990

And for the wonderful examiner Fahmy Malak:
James Milam was decapitated. The state Medical examiner, Fahmy Malak, initially ruled death due to natural causes, claiming that the victim's small dog had eaten the head, which was later recovered from a trash bin several blocks away.

In 1998, there was a Grand Jury trial, but the jury was frustrated as the weren't allowed to make the ruling they wanted cause of the prosecutor Dan Harmon and Richard Garrett.

I highly recommend Boys on the Tracks by Mara Leveritt.

I've never bought into theory of the lone drug dealer or perhaps the boys trying to steal some drugs off a dealer which resulted in their deaths. If they were the only two connected with this case that died, then maybe I could believe it but a lot more people who were connected to this case died under equally mysterious circumstances, in my view in the year after the boys were killed for it just to be a case of two boys encountering or stealing some pot off a drug dealer.

It goes much higher than that...there is some strong evidence that the D.A. Richard Garrett and his partner Dan Harmon may have been responsible for the boys deaths although they were probably not the ones who actually murdered them.

DarkDante,

Can you elaborate on this? This seems very interesting and it appears you have a lot more knowledge about the case than what the UM segment showed. Is this D.A. the same attorney who was in the segment or is it a different guy? Thanks.

I still believe this had to do with the Mena drug ring.
They found a "drop site" time before and went back to search for more.
Though this time someone was waiting for them.

This seems plausible and matches with my hypothesis about the boys trying to steal a stash. By the way, what is the "Mena" drug ring? Who is "Mena?"

My big question, though, is does anyone have an expanation for the deaths of the other two boys in Oklahoma a few years prior? They also were found laying on train tracks.

From what I read neither boy was killed at the tracks...thats just where they laid the bodies out. Apparently they were overpowered in the parking lot of the Ranchette Grocery and these individuals got the jump on them and overpowered them before they were able to fight back.

Dante,

You obviously have read more than I know about the case. Based on the UM segment, it didn't mention them being at a grocery store. If they went spotlighting in the woods with a gun, how did they end up in a grocery store parking lot?

Info about Mena.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/crimesOfMena.html

boco,

It may very well be true that drugs were a big problem in Arkansas during that time, but this article seems to talk about the big fish. I don't think the big fish had any reason to kill two teenage boys. I think that if this was connected to Mena somehow, that it was some lower level people who committed this murder. They probably did it because the boys may have stolen some of their shipments. That's the best motive I can come up with. I just don't think that someone who was in cahoots with the CIA, and that two U.S. presidents knew about, would waste his time with this small time stuff.

I still want to know if anyone has any info that connects the Oklahoma train track deaths to this one.

I can't answer specifically about the Oklahoma train deaths connection to this case except that I put very little stock in it because its a theory advanced by Richard Garrett who I do not find very credible.

Garrett (who is the DA in the UM segment) has/had a partner by the name of Dan Harmon who many believe is responsible for the death of Ives and Henry and it is by no coincidence that when the case was re-opened in 1988, these two individuals jumped on it.

If you read "The Boys On The Tracks" or watch the accompanying video on the case put together by Linda Ives, it casts light on the fact that none of the leads Harmon and Garrett came up with amounted to anything (from the vagrant shooting at the cop to the Oklahoma incident) and that people who did contact these prosecutors with honorable intentions of solving this crime ended up dead.

Its also suspicious that Harmon and Garrett years later were dirtied by accustations of being involved in cover ups involving drugs. Although both men were later cleared I still believe that at least Harmon is responsible for the death of Ives and Henry and it is related to his involvement in the Mena drug ring

Dante,

So the prosecutor is dirty. My question is, however, why would he want to kill these kids?

Also, what evidence is there that these two boys were at a grocery store?

^ Because allegedly Dan Harmon was on the tracks that night partcipating in a drug drop along with several other state and local officials. Ives & Henry happened upon this drug drop either innocently or because they were looking to score the drugs for themselves. When the authorities spotted them and perhaps because Ives & Henry could've identified some of these people - they had to be disposed of.

There were at least two eyewitnesses who witnessed two officers beating the crap out of two boys matching the description of Ives & Henry at the Ranchette Grocery the night of the "The Train Deaths". After the attack one of the witnesses obseved the boys being loaded into the back of a squad car and being driven off towards the railroad tracks.

The grocery store event, to me, seems unrelated unless the father was just totally wrong about seeing his son around 12 AM coming in the house to get his rifle and spotlight and acting as if nothing was wrong.

If the beating happened after this, then why were the boys at the grocery store? Wouldn't it be closed at that hour? What did they do with the rifle? Just leave it laying on the ground?

Your theory seems like the entire town was in on this murder (all the cops and the D.A). I find that far-fetched, unless there is strong evidence indicating it is so. If it is so, then has there ever been any attempt to clean up that town?

Well far-fetched or not given the many bizarre circumstances around this event (which is not fully ascertainable just by viewing the UM segment because believe me I was confused too after the first time I saw it twenty years ago) I believe that Linda Ives' theory (not mine) is what happened to Ives & Henry on the night of her son's death. Here is her full account cobbled together from "The Boys on The Tracks" book:

On August 23, 1987, Don Henry and Kevin Ives ventured out into the woods near Little Rock, Arkansas to do some night hunting (or spotlighting as the UM segment described it). During this time the boys apparently smoked some marijuana (enough to find trace amounts in their systems but not enough to cause a drug overdose or a drug stupor causing them to fall asleep on the tracks)

At some point the boys exited the woods near the railroad tracks where according to Ives' research, a drug drop was occuring on that evening which was supervised by the DEA (as part as what is commonly known as the "Mena" scandel). Ives implicates Judicial District Prosecutor Dan Harmon and crony Sharline Wilson as being principals in the murder of Kevin Ives and Don Henry.

A theory which at points is corroborated by information given by witnesses of possible police brutality against Kevin and Don the night they were murdered is as follows:

Harmon and Wilson were at the tracks awaiting drugs to be dropped from an airplane per pre-arrangement. Harmon got out of his vehicle and walked the tracks with others (according to Ives' possibly state and local police) while Wilson remained in the vehicle. Don Henry and Kevin Ives innocently walked out of the woods and happened upon Dan Harmon who realizing there were now witnesses to the drug drop approached the boys in some sort of threatening manner. Don Henry filed one shot from his rifle and everyone scattered.

Don and Kevin took off northbound where a short while later they met up with another crony Keith Coney who was on a motorcycle. Coney drove the two boys to Ranchette Grocery on Highway 111.

Don Henry then apparently attempted to make a phone call although it is unknown if his call ever went through to its destination. Two police officers showed up and they were later identified to Ives by witnesses as Kirk Lane and Jay Campbell. (who common logic would state had to also have been at the scene of the drug drop earlier that night given their subsequent actions)

Witnesses observed Campbell and Lane accost the two boys and a brief scuffle ensued. When Kevin Ives reached for his rifle, one of the police officers grabbed it and smashed Kevin's skull in with the butt of the rifle likely killing him instantly or mortally wounding him.

The two police officers then threw both boys in the back of the unmarked police car and took off towards a dirt road which dead ended in the woods after around a quarter of a mile.

Keith Coney, the boy who had driven both Ives and Henry to the grocery took off on his motorcycle as soon as the violence began. Coney then went to a local bar known as the "Wagon Wheel" and informed two men of the situation (one of which was Keith McKaskle) - McKaskle also took off in the direction of the tracks to see what was going on.

According to a local man named Ronnie Godwin, he also witnessed the beating of two boys at the grocery the night Ives and Henry were found on the tracks. It was he who reported that he saw the two police officers whom he identified as Campbell and Lane, drive away with the boys down a dirt road. It is suspected that it is at this juncture that Don Henry likely recieved the stab wounds that caused his death and perhaps Kevin Ives was killed as well at this juncture if he was not already dead from the earlier altercation at the grocery store.

Ronnie Godwin, knowing that the road dead ended in the woods knew the car would have to come back in his direction so he parked hidden behind two trailers and watched as the car emerged from the woods fifteen minutes later and drove towards the direction of the railroad tracks where the boys were later run over.

Another witness named Mike Crook, corroborates most of Godwin's statements as a similar statement was told to him by a drifter on the night of the "The Train Deaths".

Keith McKaskle also may have been a witness to the actual act of laying Ives and Henry on the tracks. McKaskle took off for the woods after being alerted by Coney of the situation and apparently witnessed Ives and Henry being laid out on the tracks and covered with a tarp. There are also several other witnesses alleged in Mara Leveritt's book "The Boys On The Tracks" who witnessed portions of what occured on the night of 8-23-87 relating to Henry and Ives.

Several ironies exist with the first being Coney and McKaskle were both found dead in 1988 under mysterious circumstances and the manner of their deaths ruled as accidents while there was much evidence to the contrary. Those who support Linda Ives' conspiracy theory believed both men were murdered in order to ensure their silence.

Another irony is that Dan Harmon who according to Ives may be at the very crux of the entire events surrounding "The Train Deaths" was later charged along with Richard Garrett to head up a Grand Jury investigation on the deaths of Ives and Henry. In fact Garrett was interviewed extensively on the UM segment where he promised viewers that he would find a resolution to this case.

However in the early 90s both Garrett and Harmon were dirtied by accusations of drug scandals and cover ups in Arkansas. Although both men were eventually cleared, Linda Ives later learned in the late 90s, that at least Harmon may have been involved in the death of her son and his friend

I suppose in order to understand any of what you said, and to put it into context, I should study up on the Mena drug ring.

You say this drop was being supervised by the DEA? Is this how the author obtained this information, from the DEA? My question is, if the Drug Enforcement Administration was indeed monitoring this in some sort of sting operation, how did they not see the murders take place? Or, at least, how did they not hear about the murders and launch their own investigation? Certainly, they could put 2 and 2 together and ascertain that these murders had something to do with this drug drop. Further, why did the DEA not make any arrests (relating to the narcotics) that night? Surely they had all the evidence they needed in order to make arrests due to the drop?

How does Linda Ives know that Don Henry fired his rifle?

The boy on the motorcycle, Mr. Coney, was he involved in this other than giving the boys a ride? If so, how?

Also, do you know how far away the tracks were from where either boy lived? It must have been within a reasonable walking distance since the boys left on foot to get there. My question is, why did the boys not just head for the house from whence they came?

As for the witnesses to this event, how did Linda Ives found out about them? Did they approach her directly?

I think there is a clear drug connection here, but I am just not sure if the entire scenario that is outlined in the book makes sense. There seems to be some key assumptions that are not corroborated by evidence.

I think that one of the two scenarios is true:

1) This was drug related, but the scope of the "conspiracy" is a bit inflated by a grieving family looking for answers.

2) This is the most corrupt police system in the history of the U.S. (you have local cops, state cops, federal cops, county cops, and district attorneys all involved. Was Bill Clinton involved too?) If this scenario is true, then Arkansas has some MAJOR problems.

Here is a link about this case with lots of info. http://www.idfiles.com/index.htm

Thiussat,

Yeah go to that link peachy just provided or pick up Mara Levitt's book "The Boys On The Tracks" as they probably can explain the many complex details of the case to you better than I ever could. There is also an in depth video on the case that Linda Ives put together which although is very one-sided does go more in depth than the UM segment did.

i wander who did it?