After Mother Jefferson got mad when Archie called her MAMMY, Archie said to George-"I'm sorry Jefferson but I thought all colored people called their mothers MAMMY, Al Jolson called his mother Mammy for years"



So it was just the way he was brought up and the movies he saw that made him believe the things he did about certain minorities groups. And he never felt he was doing any harm because he honestly thought that all black people called their mothers Mammy-lol I mean if that's all Archie heard and saw growing up, how could anyone really criticize him for saying-"I thought all black people called their mother Mammy"?

That's called being IGNORANT. Sure, you can almost turn an eye to those who say or do ignorant things, but he was also ignorant in ASSUMING that was a term that was alright.

But he had no reason at ALL to suspect he was wrong. Her assumption was what fueled the confusion not his comments. I agree. Archie is a misunderstood guy.

But he had no reason at ALL to suspect he was wrong. Her assumption was what fueled the confusion not his comments. I agree. Archie is a misunderstood guy.


Correct, since he was not around blacks that much and only could go by what he saw in movies that's why he acted the way he did. I think Archie was actually a good Guy compared to a guy on a Sitcom called "CPO SHARKEY" Now the Don Rickles character was FLAT OUT OFFENSIVE and ,much worse than Archie.

and remember; on that episode where Archie and Mike got locked in the storeroom (I wonder how they ever got out of there come to think of it? LOL)
Archie was saying that he got his predjudice from his father.

That's the first (and hopefully only) time I will see Archie compared to CPO Sharkey. :)

I think there really was an innocence about him although people like that can be very dangerous in their own way too (not physically or anything like that). It is true though, a lot of those ideas are instilled by parents and also ones life experiences. Archie just didn't know any better but although many people think he just grew soft, I think the experiences of the country in the 1970s coupled with the fact that he had a liberal son-in-law caused Archie to be enlightened little by little as time went on. I think by the end of the series run, he was a well rounded character with a street education as opposed to just a book education like Mike. The street changed over time and that had an impact on the character. A little of that rubbed off on Mike as a little of Mike rubbed off on Archie so they were able to understand each other a little better by the time the series wrapped up. That's why I think 'Two's a Crowd' is a true classic episode of the series and capsulates the similarities and differences of the two characters. They come to an understanding about one another and that all comes together in the last moments they share in 'The Stivics Go West'.

Good Night Shoe-bootie.

and remember; on that episode where Archie and Mike got locked in the storeroom (I wonder how they ever got out of there come to think of it? LOL)
Archie was saying that he got his predjudice from his father.
An ignorant person would not say they got their prejudice from anyone or anywhere. Being ignorant means, they don't know better, so Archie saying he was prejudice because of his father shows that HE DOES KNOW WHAT HE IS SAYING IS WRONG.

An ignorant person would not say they got their prejudice from anyone or anywhere. Being ignorant means, they don't know better, so Archie saying he was prejudice because of his father shows that HE DOES KNOW WHAT HE IS SAYING IS WRONG.


I totally agree, Archie knew that calling people Daego, Chinks, Coons, Nig*ers and ***s was just plain wrong. I can't see how anyone would even try to justify what Archie did.

But then again this is Solomon's thread

I totally agree, Archie knew that calling people Daego, Chinks, Coons, Nig*ers and ***s was just plain wrong. I can't see how anyone would even try to justify what Archie did.

But then again this is Solomon's thread


He was really serious when he said-"I thought all black people called their mothers MAMMY"

He was really serious when he said-"I thought all black people called their mothers MAMMY"
Archie was also a damn good liar.

Archie was also a damn good liar.



He wasn't lying, I could tell by Upset he was when trying to explain to George That he thought it was a common thing for blacks to call their mother MAMMY

He wasn't lying, I could tell by Upset he was when trying to explain to George That he thought it was a common thing for blacks to call their mother MAMMY
He was upset because he knew George was pissed and would kick him in the ass for saying that term. Archie knew what he said and didn't think anyone would call him on it.

He was upset because he knew George was pissed and would kick him in the ass for saying that term. Archie knew what he said and didn't think anyone would call him on it.


I think you need to watch that ep again-lol

"Hey Jefferson that's no way to talk to your little mammy here"

I think you need to watch that ep again-lol

"Hey Jefferson that's no way to talk to your little mammy here"
It doesn't matter how or where he said it. It was another term he was using just like the ones Brie listed above. He said it in such a non-chalant way. If he said it sarcastically or with an attitude, then he couldn't "get away with it".

I think you need to watch that ep again-lol

"Hey Jefferson that's no way to talk to your little mammy here"


Ok thats one thing, what's another? Archie didn't like Black people, Italian or Asians.

It doesn't matter how or where he said it. It was another term he was using just like the ones Brie listed above. He said it in such a non-chalant way. If he said it sarcastically or with an attitude, then he couldn't "get away with it".



Mother Jefferson just OVERREACTED, You see George didn't pay any attention to the term MAMMY-lol I'm looking at this ep Tonight

Mother Jefferson just OVERREACTED, You see George didn't pay any attention to the term MAMMY-lol I'm looking at this ep Tonight
Mother J. of course would react. Who wouldn't? She just knows this person used a demeaning term towards her. I wouldn't stand there and analyze whether the man was ignorant or not. Overall, Archie was prejudiced as he stated to Mike in that one episode. Don't confuse ignorant with predjudice.

Ok thats one thing, what's another? Archie didn't like Black people, Italian or Asians.


He liked LIONEL, explained that

He liked LIONEL, explained that
How many prejudice people say, "I don't hate blacks, I have a black friend..."

Mother J. of course would react. Who wouldn't? She just knows this person used a demeaning term towards her. I wouldn't stand there and analyze whether the man was ignorant or not. Overall, Archie was prejudiced as he stated to Mike in that one episode. Don't confuse ignorant with predjudice.



It just made her feel OLD. Which is why she said-"I'm his MOTHER"

So what do you think is the reason for Archie saying what he said?

After Mother Jefferson got mad when Archie called her MAMMY, Archie said to George-"I'm sorry Jefferson but I thought all colored people called their mothers MAMMY, Al Jolson called his mother Mammy for years"



So it was just the way he was brought up and the movies he saw that made him believe the things he did about certain minorities groups. And he never felt he was doing any harm because he honestly thought that all black people called their mothers Mammy-lol I mean if that's all Archie heard and saw growing up, how could anyone really criticize him for saying-"I thought all black people called their mother Mammy"?


I agree with you Solomon. Deep down Archie was really a good guy. He was just brought up thinking things like that were ok to say.

So what do you think is the reason for Archie saying what he said?


Movies, he said that Al Jolson called his mother Mammy for Years. That was his reason

Movies, he said that Al Jolson called his mother Mammy for Years. That was his reason
What I am asking you though was he ignorant, was he prejudice or was he being himself, what was it?

I agree with you Solomon. Deep down Archie was really a good guy. He was just brought up thinking things like that were ok to say.



He was actually telling GEORGE that he was being Disrespectful to his mother and then Mother Jefferson started acting all crazy-lol Archie was defending Oliva Jefferson not Inulting herl

Read post number 11...

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=181288&highlight=mammy

You said Archie was STUPID. You are not saying that now.

What I am asking you though was he ignorant, was he prejudice or was he being himself, what was it?


Yeah he came off as prejudice because he was intimidated by Black People

He was actually telling GEORGE that he was being Disrespectful to his mother and then Mother Jefferson started acting all crazy-lol Archie was defending Oliva Jefferson not Inulting herl


I agree with you. He was NOT being mean spirited.

I agree with you. He was NOT being mean spirited.



George was the one being MEAN and IGNORANT-lol

"Momma will you leave me ALONE!!!!!!!!!


So Archie saw Mother Jefferson's feelingas were hurt and was about to cry so he stepped in and was like-"Hey George Chill man!-lol

George was the one being MEAN and IGNORANT-lol

"Momma will you leave me ALONE!!!!!!!!!


So Archie saw Mother Jefferson's feelingas were hurt and was about to cry so he stepped in and was like-"Hey George Chill man!-lol


Well said!

Read post number 11...

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=181288&highlight=mammy

You said Archie was STUPID. You are not saying that now.
I am waiting...^^^^^^^^:lol:

I am waiting...^^^^^^^^:lol:



I had a chance to watch it again and really analyze the Situaton

George was the one being MEAN and IGNORANT-lol

"Momma will you leave me ALONE!!!!!!!!!


So Archie saw Mother Jefferson's feelingas were hurt and was about to cry so he stepped in and was like-"Hey George Chill man!-lol


Was that the only episode of the Jefferson’s that you've seen?

There was an episode where Archie was trying to keep some Puerto Ricans from moving next door to him. He even signed a petition to keep them from moving in. Archie was a Bigot plain and simple.

Was that the only episode of the Jefferson’s that you've seen?

There was an episode where Archie was trying to keep some Puerto Ricans from moving next door to him. He even signed a petition to keep them from moving in. Archie was a Bigot plain and simple.



My point is he was not being a bigot during that moment, he was concerned for Mother Jefferson because she was almost in tears after george yelled at her.

Was that the only episode of the Jefferson’s that you've seen?

There was an episode where Archie was trying to keep some Puerto Ricans from moving next door to him. He even signed a petition to keep them from moving in. Archie was a Bigot plain and simple.
Exactly. Too many incidences of bigotry to list here, but it is overwhelming. In this era of television, magazines, newspapers, radio and good ol' plain communication, ARchie knew damn well he was what he was and there was nothing he could do to justify that. It wasn't like he lived on a street all by himself. He knew enough to have a name for every race he encountered or talked abt.

Why admit he got his prejudice from his father then?????

My point is he was not being a bigot during that moment, he was concerned for Mother Jefferson because she was almost in tears after george yelled at her.

During that moment? What about the other times?

During that moment? What about the other times?


I'm just saying that Mother Jefferson shouldn't have SNAPPED. Of Course he had his bigoted moments but that wasn't one of them

I'm just saying that Mother Jefferson shouldn't have SNAPPED. Of Course he had his bigoted moments but that wasn't one of them
Mother Jefferson was old, she could snap anytime she wanted. :lol:

I'm just saying that Mother Jefferson shouldn't have SNAPPED. Of Course he had his bigoted moments but that wasn't one of them

Yes she should have, She didn't know Archie from Adam. Some stranger comes up to you and call you a name like Mammy, that's hurtful to any black woman.

That's like a strange white man coming up to you and calling you Boy, and then saying "Oh I didn't mean it"

Yes she should have, She didn't know Archie from Adam. Some stranger comes up to you and call you a name like Mammy, that's hurtful to any black woman.

That's like a strange white man coming up to you and calling you Boy, and then saying "Oh I didn't mean it"



George didn't seem bothered by it-lol

George didn't seem bothered by it-lol

Bothered by what? His mom being called Mammy? I'm beginning to think that you didn't read about any black history or about black people at all.

Bothered by what? His mom being called Mammy? I'm beginning to think that you didn't read about any black history or about black people at all.



Yeah his mom being called mammy. Archie's heart was in the right place but his mind was just somewhere else-lol

Yeah his mom being called mammy. Archie's heart was in the right place but his mind was just somewhere else-lol


Yeah that must have been the only episode you've seen all the way through.

Yeah that must have been the only episode you've seen all the way through.




I guess because I had someone else to compare Archie to in the past 3 years so after doing that he didn't seem bad at all.

I guess because I had someone else to compare Archie to in the past 3 years so after doing that he didn't seem bad at all.


If you're a big AITF fan like I am, you would know that Archie was a good man but his outlook on life was screwed up. The only good thing about Archie's Bigotry was that he didn't like anyone. So on AITF everyone was fair game. Archie was a Bigot, he would never say that he was, but everyone knew it.

If you're a big AITF fan like I am, you would know that Archie was a good man but his outlook on life was screwed up. The only good thing about Archie's Bigotry was that he didn't like anyone. So on AITF everyone was fair game. Archie was a Bigot, he would never say that he was, but everyone knew it.
Good point Brie.

To say that there is an excuse for Archie being a bigot is like saying Osama Bin Laden hates America and committed terrorist acts because "that's all he knows".

Archie didn't live in a cave where he was isolated and really believed that what he was doing was "alright". He knew it was wrong and used terms, words and other expressions to spew his bigotry.

Good point Brie.

To say that there is an excuse for Archie being a bigot is like saying Osama Bin Laden hates America and committed terrorist acts because "that's all he knows".

Archie didn't live in a cave where he was isolated and really believed that what he was doing was "alright". He knew it was wrong and used terms, words and other expressions to spew his bigotry.


Yeah most of the time he knew what he was doing but not in that Mother Jefferson incident. He was so shocked because he had no clue-lol