Trading is a great hobby.
Sometimes it gets taken too far-
Sometimes we argue, or get taken advantage of
We do what we can as a trading community to spare each other problems if we can.
Feedback, threads, word of mouth.

And at other times a moderator or owner step in- and sometimes a fight can be settled
Sometimes a disagreement resolved.

But no matter what there are still risks in this hobby and some people don't consider at all.

The below is a very serious situation, read it- and take it seriously.
Do not post anything comical on this thread, as the subject matter is far from.
And please do not use it for a platform to go off topic, as it won't be tolerated.


*
You only have to be 13 to use this site.
Some disagree with that, and very rarely do under the legal age trade- they are busy with school, busy with life-
But the fact is we DO have younger traders-
and we do have a LOT of younger users-

So take this into consideration.

Recently, running a check for a show "My living dolls"
A check was run for the show through Google trading groups, than Yahoo.

And to big surprise a user did have them- and had them on his list.
Another Trader, his name is Terry Ortman

You wouldn't think anything of it- until you knew the truth

If you have tried to trade Terry anytime in the last year, since November- he doen'st reply to emails
And doesn't seem to be around. He dropped off the face of the earth for trading.
Well, the reason is- sevearl other traders, came to find out, what else he traded- As he actually provided "examples of his work"

What was that other hobby?
Child Pornography.

Yes, he plead guilty

ORTMAN PLEADS GUILTY TO BEING A CHILD PORNOGRAPHER


TERRY ORTMAN OF DECATUR,ILLINOIS PLED GUILTY TO A REDUCED CHARGE OF
SELLING CHILD PORN - HE HAD A TOTAL OF 5 CHILD PORN CHARGES - HE'S BEEN

IN THE MACON COUNTY JAIL FOR 6 MONTHS BECAUSE HE COULD NOT RAISE BAIL
OF$25,000.


HE'S FACING 3 TO 5 YEARS IN THE STATE PRISON PLUS BEING LISTED AS A
REGISTERED SEXUAL OFFENDER

All of this is public record, as sex offenders are required to waive that right if plead guilty or found guility.

Now ask yourself-
What better way to get information on a child or young adult
but to be in a trading hobby.


Please be careful when trading.
If you are a young adult trading, take precautions- you can ask your parents for a post office box- for example
You can trade under your initials for another example
Do not give out personal information such as your birthdate, or picture.
Do not exchange phone numbers this is an UNUSUAL practice, if requested report it to a moderator.
Go with your gut, if something feels unusual, report it.


Trading can be a wonderful hobby
but it can open the door to the obvious excahnge of personal information
So PLEASE I can't stress this enough
do trader checks-
and if you see anything unusual- if someone sends you , or offers you illegal materials, adult materials- let a moderator know.


Becuase this trader in question was asking for pictures of the teens he traded, and offering "modeling money" for those who wanted to pose.



If your an adult trader, sharing the hobby iwth your child or teen, as some do.
BE aware, be aware of what they are getting. Be aware of who they are trading- and most of all let them know, if they come across something as this, they can come to you. Or come to me or any moderator as well as Todd himself of course.

Holy Moses! Good advice Kim. Take heed people and be careful who you are dealing with. See the story below. Is this the same guy? He lives in Decatur, Illinois:

http://www.angelfire.com/il/terryortman/press.html

Yes that is him.


I made sure to verify the name, and the address to old trading records-

I have added him to the bad trader list- of course-

I know this doen'st fall under my normal moderator responsibilities- but- the safety of the members is my concern.

holy crap

this is another example of the internet as a good spot to become what and whom ever you choose to be

there are lots of sickos out there

lots of predators of all kinds

AS POSTED on the bad trader list


here is his email and associated site as well


NAME:TERRY ORTMAN
EMAIL:tort@gmx.net
LOCATION: DECATUR ILLINOIS
SELLER IDS:tort@gmx.net
SITES ASSOCIATED WITH:'FAQ MAINTAINER' OF ALT.FAN.TRACI-LORDS
REASON FOR ADDITION TO LIST:
FOUND GUILTY OF CHILD PORNAGRPHY, SOLICITING MINORS

Yes that is him.


I made sure to verify the name, and the address to old trading records-

I have added him to the bad trader list- of course-

I know this doen'st fall under my normal moderator responsibilities- but- the safety of the members is my concern.


If only we'd known, we could have had Harvey go undercover (no pun intended) as a 13 year old girl, and had naked pictures sent to him. He would have been so horrified, he would probably have stopped. If only we'd known...sigh.

If only we'd known, we could have had Harvey go undercover (no pun intended) as a 13 year old girl, and had naked pictures sent to him. He would have been so horrified, he would probably have stopped. If only we'd known...sigh.

Here is a quote from Savage's post.

The below is a very serious situation, read it- and take it seriously.
Do not post anything comical on this thread, as the subject matter is far from.

Harvey

very unfortunate for the trading community to be touched by this type of scandal

but let this be a warning--- u NEVER know who u r trading with
so be careful, be cautious and ask questions if it doesnt seem right

i have had people email me to ask for trades---- i look at the list and sometimes i see a good deal of "adult" material on the list

so as a general rule--- i steer clear of them

now im not some overly moral person, im not a prude at all
but i do not feel comfortable trading with someone who actively lists hardcore material on their public list--- it just aint appropriate

if they want to have an Adult list--- make it available ONLY BY REQUEST to people they know-- and for Gods sake, keep it of legal age

and that was just GENERAL ADULT/HARDCORE material----
the dime a dozen variety---- ive also been approached by those with "questionable" items on their list--- adult materials that are FAR FROM THE MAIN STREAM ----perhaps nothing criminal, but certainly sick and disturbing
which is even more awkward

so i just tell them "not interested" and block their emails after that

ive NOT been approached by anyone with this type of stuff on the list--- Little Children! (sickening!) and i hope i NEVER EVER EVER am--- because if you are trading that kind of stuff, this aint the site for you and i urge u to get some serious psychiatric help before u get some serious legal trouble! it aint welcome in Lamonts junkyard

sometimes we get too comfortable in our trading community and we forget that, like all parts of society, there are Bad people out there and we need to be careful

there used to be a trader in Iowa years ago... I can't remember his name but he would always throw in a disc of whatever his favorite "adult" movie was at the time. Although it wasn't child porn, I thought that was kinda wrong. I always told him I had no interest in it and i'd rather him not send anymore, but everytime we traded there would be one.

Its just not appropriate
even if the adult material is legal, u do NOT send it out to people u dont know
and u certainly do not include it in trading lists and on trading sites

i mean---- jeesh, it aint like its hard to find porn online--- if someone wants to trade that stuff-- please, take it to an Adult site to do it, away from this site and away from a large number of minors! :eek:

Here is a quote from Savage's post.

The below is a very serious situation, read it- and take it seriously.
Do not post anything comical on this thread, as the subject matter is far from.

Harvey

You're right. My boo boo. But I could not resist.

Awful to think someone on here could be capable of such a thing. This is a very nice online community and everyone seems to be very friendly. Im a new poster but already feel like I belong to the site. Lets hope nothing happens like this again. Also I agree with lamont, adult material (pornography) aint a good idea to be on peoples lists.

One tape trader would tape over his porn tapes with stuff he owed me, when the tape got down to the last few minutes you would see graphic stuff. Couldnt the person just sent me something on a new blank tape??? I never traded with him again because he did it more than once on his tapes he sent me.

Aj

Trading is a great hobby.
Sometimes it gets taken too far-
Sometimes we argue, or get taken advantage of
We do what we can as a trading community to spare each other problems if we can.
Feedback, threads, word of mouth.

And at other times a moderator or owner step in- and sometimes a fight can be settled
Sometimes a disagreement resolved.

But no matter what there are still risks in this hobby and some people don't consider at all.

The below is a very serious situation, read it- and take it seriously.
Do not post anything comical on this thread, as the subject matter is far from.
And please do not use it for a platform to go off topic, as it won't be tolerated.


*
You only have to be 13 to use this site.
Some disagree with that, and very rarely do under the legal age trade- they are busy with school, busy with life-
But the fact is we DO have younger traders-
and we do have a LOT of younger users-

So take this into consideration.

Recently, running a check for a show "My living dolls"
A check was run for the show through Google trading groups, than Yahoo.

And to big surprise a user did have them- and had them on his list.
Another Trader, his name is Terry Ortman

You wouldn't think anything of it- until you knew the truth

If you have tried to trade Terry anytime in the last year, since November- he doen'st reply to emails
And doesn't seem to be around. He dropped off the face of the earth for trading.
Well, the reason is- sevearl other traders, came to find out, what else he traded- As he actually provided "examples of his work"

What was that other hobby?
Child Pornography.

Yes, he plead guilty

ORTMAN PLEADS GUILTY TO BEING A CHILD PORNOGRAPHER


TERRY ORTMAN OF DECATUR,ILLINOIS PLED GUILTY TO A REDUCED CHARGE OF
SELLING CHILD PORN - HE HAD A TOTAL OF 5 CHILD PORN CHARGES - HE'S BEEN

IN THE MACON COUNTY JAIL FOR 6 MONTHS BECAUSE HE COULD NOT RAISE BAIL
OF$25,000.


HE'S FACING 3 TO 5 YEARS IN THE STATE PRISON PLUS BEING LISTED AS A
REGISTERED SEXUAL OFFENDER

All of this is public record, as sex offenders are required to waive that right if plead guilty or found guility.

Now ask yourself-
What better way to get information on a child or young adult
but to be in a trading hobby.


Please be careful when trading.
If you are a young adult trading, take precautions- you can ask your parents for a post office box- for example
You can trade under your initials for another example
Do not give out personal information such as your birthdate, or picture.
Do not exchange phone numbers this is an UNUSUAL practice, if requested report it to a moderator.
Go with your gut, if something feels unusual, report it.


Trading can be a wonderful hobby
but it can open the door to the obvious excahnge of personal information
So PLEASE I can't stress this enough
do trader checks-
and if you see anything unusual- if someone sends you , or offers you illegal materials, adult materials- let a moderator know.


Becuase this trader in question was asking for pictures of the teens he traded, and offering "modeling money" for those who wanted to pose.



If your an adult trader, sharing the hobby iwth your child or teen, as some do.
BE aware, be aware of what they are getting. Be aware of who they are trading- and most of all let them know, if they come across something as this, they can come to you. Or come to me or any moderator as well as Todd himself of course.


Eww, what a creep.,:mad:

*
You only have to be 13 to use this site.
Some disagree with that, and very rarely do under the legal age trade- they are busy with school, busy with life-
But the fact is we DO have younger traders-
and we do have a LOT of younger users-


1. Thanks for the warning

2. Just wondering why people disagree with it. Mainly just cases like the one you mentioned or are there other reasons?

Gilligan Fanatic
i will say that YOU are mature and responsible for your age
BUT some traders dont want to trade with teens b/c they are more often then not, unreliable

with youth comes lots of activities
and i have had teen traders in the past, put me off forever b/c they were "too busy with school work" to get my stuff out
so that might be why some feel that way

ok, I see. I have no life so you don't have to worry about me getting distracted with something-lol

i didnt mean it that way at all GF, i just meant that you have always been responsible and kept your word to me
that does NOT mean u dont have a life, just that u make keeping your word, PART of that life

Oh I know you were just being nice, I took it as a compliment. I was just joking around about not having a life. I know you were being nice to me :)

I take what Lamont said as a insult. I'm 18, starting trade school in October, hoping to be a deckhand on a submarine and feel I'm very responsible.

My last trade only took 3 mos. to complete. I had to send 3 disks and I was short of cash. I now have a stash of 10, so I'm open to small trades.

Harvey who got his GED from a match book cover.

. I had to send 3 disks and I was short of cash. I now have a stash of 10, so I'm open to small trades




i hear sollomon is avaible for some swaps, and with your 7 left over discs

you could make 7 trades with him

and that would hold you for about a year

just think

thats almost 3 hours of fine quality entertainment,

man old boy, you got it going on

i hear sollomon is avaible for some swaps, and with your 7 left over discs

you could make 7 trades with him

and that would hold you for about a year

just think

thats almost 3 hours of fine quality entertainment,

man old boy, you got it going on

Just wonderful. Need the 1937 short of Will Rogers tossing his lariat,w/o/c, which includes the promo of Amelia Earhart announcing her intentions of flying over the Atlantic. Only want it on tape.

Harvey

Just wonderful. Need the 1937 short of Will Rogers tossing his lariat,w/o/c, which includes the promo of Amelia Earhart announcing her intentions of flying over the Atlantic. Only want it on tape.

Harvey

ok great

theres the first swap all concemated

6 more to go

the fact that its one disc at a time, gives you something to look foward to every couple months

aint that grand ??

1. Thanks for the warning

2. Just wondering why people disagree with it. Mainly just cases like the one you mentioned or are there other reasons?

I'd be hesitant to trade with anyone who's very young, say 13-15 mainly because I think that's a sensitive area. I've had an 11 year old who desperately wanted a copy of a show I have (nothing I'd consider unsuitable for a child). Since I didn't want to trade with him, I told him where I bought it. His reply was that his parents wouldn't let him buy it because they thought the show was silly & he didn't need to have it. Again, the show was suitable for someone so young, but it's always bad news to go against what the parents want. IMO, if someone so young is interested in trading, it should be done with their parents acting as the trader. ESPECIALLY since names & addresses are exchanged.

1. Thanks for the warning

2. Just wondering why people disagree with it. Mainly just cases like the one you mentioned or are there other reasons?


OK...I did a little research.


As far as disagreements as to why 13 feel it is a little young.

It very often comes down to legal for some-
Legally, wether you know this or not, some states actually have stated that any contract some engages in- wether it be verbal or written
You have to be of legal age.
In a way trading is a contract.
You have this
I have that- and we trade.
Its a contract
But that contract is based upon risks of the law and knowing the law to a degree
In example the exchanging of retail items is NOT allowed here, sure we make that known
But how many - under the age of lets say 18 - are aware of such laws.

If I walked into a ..whats 13 - 6th grade class- and asked what the BetaMax law suit entailed
I would get goofy looks.

It isn't most cholastic lessons, reading writng and Trading.

So that is PART of it.
Greatly.
Those who are under 18- as minors might not KNOW what they are risking legally- They may not know what they can and can't tape, let alone ship
And therefore, most people don't want to engage them in that activity.

I am not saying ALL minors are unaware. Not at all.
I was trading, basiclaly before 18. I was 16- when I did swaps and exchanges.
I know combisthebest was trading at 14 I think-
I know several traders here under 18. Who have submerged themselves in the hobby and know whats what.
But. hey also won't be held accountable to the same degree an adult with either.
And as well- what a child does a parent is responsible.

7 months ago, a 17 year old man was living with his mother and aunt-
He was downloading illegal music off the web. Countless songs upwards of 27,000
he was making cds, and selling them 5 a piece.
He was found guilty, and charged 30,000 dollar fine.
Which he didn't have-
His mother and aunt- were responsible for that fine-

So another reason some adults don't want their children trading is the RISKS it puts them at.
If that 17 year old was downloading bootleg films, I can guarauntee that fine would have been 10x higher if he was selling those.


So that is SOME of why SOME people disagree.

I am not sharing my opinion, but the views of others.

Gilligan, I know you yourself are a good trader- and I think your just under the benchmark of 18.
but As much as your a shining example of how to trade, some are the opposite.
And no matter what, legally- until your of age- the consequences are different.
The risks are different, and the exposure to the legal system, and its information is different as well.

ok great

theres the first swap all concemated

6 more to go

the fact that its one disc at a time, gives you something to look foward to every couple months

aint that grand ??

Real peachy.

My 5 greatest wishes.

1. A new pacemaker
2. 2 weeks in Iraq
3. Prostate exam performed by a mountain Gorilla
4. Rubber rafting in the Bayou's and having the raft deflate
5. A tape with one episode on it.

Harvey

trader ages

i have traded a couple times, and i know very little about 95% of the folks i trade with

yes i have gotten to know this and that about a core of people

via the phone , etc

but i dont think anyone has ever said, im 13-14 and i want some stuff--except for harvey and that was in dog years

so with that in mind

i assume that the people who contact me are responsible enough to be able to swap--buy--whatever

i have no clue as to what age this and that one are


now that i think about it--one moderator from this site, did tell me that they were 17, and wanted a set of something

once again i assumed they were able to make that decision on their own

but i guess there could be some flak over sending mnost anything to a very young person


i choose to not fool with xxx or porno stuff

thats just asking for it, in my opinion

just like i avoid disney stuff for other reasons

i dont need to ask for an issue

im not offended if you have xxx on your list

thats your business

but i am a semi adult, and can make my own choices

many younger folks think they can, but really need guidance on things like that

so i avoid the subject completely

Well my post wasn't to preach or to moderate what
Should or shouldn't
What some can or can't
or will or won't do.


I posted it because there was a trader, who had unsavory and unsafe motives.
And those motives I felt the responsibility to share.


There are some users on the site that were more at risk than others, and although I can not say what decisions others should make on the site-
Everyone has to make their own decision.

BUT it is my opinion that decision should be made as well informed as possible

If there is a risk, i feel it should be presented.
And this was a far greater risk than losing a tape or disc in a trade.

This person wasn't a bad trader, they were a predator.

This thread wasn't intended to argue who can and can't trade
or what the legal age should be-
or legal qaundries at all - it was a factual warning, for those who knew the trader as I did-
and for those who are on the site that were more vulnarable than others.

okay, I got it now guys