No disrespect to Rolle fans, but look at the facts...Rolle left the show high and dry and basically had the kids living on their own in the ghetto which was ridiculous for a mother to do and then when she came back, she demanded that the JJ character be toned down and viewers HATED a mature JJ. What do you think?

No disrespect to Rolle fans, but look at the facts...Rolle left the show high and dry and basically had the kids living on their own in the ghetto which was ridiculous for a mother to do and then when she came back, she demanded that the JJ character be toned down and viewers HATED a mature JJ. What do you think?


Yeah it may some truth that since there was never a sitcom that had success WITH NO PARENTS-lol

Yeah it may some truth that since there was never a sitcom that had success WITH NO PARENTS-lol


Single Parent shows I think suffered a little, but having three kids living alone in the ghetto was probably more than what the audience could handle.

The show without Esther Rolle is unwatchable for me. I mean, just a complete mess.

Although, ultimately I think it was John Amos who did the show in when he left. I can't even watch it without him.

Does anyone have a breakdown of the ratings from season to season, to gauge the impact that Rolle and Amos' departures had on the show?

It's just incredible to me how that show fell apart at the seams and went down the tubes. Those first few seasons were excellent.

The show without Esther Rolle is unwatchable for me. I mean, just a complete mess.

Although, ultimately I think it was John Amos who did the show in when he left. I can't even watch it without him.

Does anyone have a breakdown of the ratings from season to season, to gauge the impact that Rolle and Amos' departures had on the show?

It's just incredible to me how that show fell apart at the seams and went down the tubes. Those first few seasons were excellent.



The ratings for season 4-first season without Amos was-#26

THe ratings for season 5-without Amos and Rolle was below #30

The Ratings for season 6 was below #30

The ratings for season 4-first season without Amos was-#26

THe ratings for season 5-without Amos and Rolle was below #30

The Ratings for season 6 was below #30
Thanks Solomon. How were the ratings for seasons 1-3?

Thanks Solomon. How were the ratings for seasons 1-3?


Ratings for season 1 was #17
Ratings for season 2 was #7
Ratings for season 3 was #24

Ratings for season 1 was #17
Ratings for season 2 was #7
Ratings for season 3 was #24
So they had a hit show until Amos left. What a shame. They blew a good thing. I can't help but imagine how things would have been different if Amos and Rolle hadn't left.

So they had a hit show until Amos left. What a shame. They blew a good thing. I can't help but imagine how things would have been different if Amos and Rolle hadn't left.
Yep, I get depressed when they are done showing season 3 and think, if only......LOL
And, I agree that JJ did change too much in the later seasons. I know people naturally mature, but I think it was still too much.

So they had a hit show until Amos left. What a shame. They blew a good thing. I can't help but imagine how things would have been different if Amos and Rolle hadn't left.


Yeah the producers thought J.J was the star but didn't realize it was the James Evans character

Yeah the producers thought J.J was the star but didn't realize it was the James Evans character


JJwas definitely a star, but James and Florida were the backbone.

JJwas definitely a star, but James and Florida were the backbone.


Brian if James wasn't the star then the show wouldn't have fell out the top 30.

Are you saying JJ wasn't a star?

Are you saying JJ wasn't a star?


Co-star

Co-star

What about all the t shirts, mugs, posters and other merchandise that had his likeness on it?

What about all the t shirts, mugs, posters and other merchandise that had his likeness on it?



Well the show made him famous which led to his dolls, and other stuff. But James was the reason people watched this show

I don't doubt that ultimately the James character was what really drove this show, but at the time, JJ was a mega star and put Good Times on the map.

I don't doubt that ultimately the James character was what really drove this show, but at the time, JJ was a mega star and put Good Times on the map.


KIds tuned in to see J.J and adults tuned in to watch James

KIds tuned in to see J.J and adults tuned in to watch James

doesn't that still make him a star?

For me, it was Esther Rolle that was the heart of the show.

doesn't that still make him a star?


Nope, he had his funny moments but he could not steal the spotlight from J-Dog-lol

Nope, he had his funny moments but he could not steal the spotlight from J-Dog-lol


Co-stars don't have t shirts and dolls made for them Solomon.

and the opening credits were eventually changed to reflect Jimmie's star status.

Co-stars don't have t shirts and dolls made for them Solomon.


Well, now, Brian I do have the talking Florida Evans doll. It cost me $49.98 on Ebay. When you pull the string she will say the following:

Shut Up, J.J.

I'll get the door Ms. Findlay.

Thank the Lord for that!

James.....

J.J. stop moving around before something falls off!

Tell the Lord you're sorry kids.

That's nice, James.

Ms Finlay, I like to eat in the kitcehn by myself!

I like having a coat that keeps me warm, but I don't want one that's hot!

Monte is the one that said that Nixon is gon' be po' folks' best friend.

What do you mean your name is Henry? I thought it was James.

I live in Harlem...No, I live in Chicago!

D*mn! D*mn! D*mn

I'd consider JJ the star, especially after the parents took off. What do they call them, breakout stars? Not originally intended to be the stars, but did. Fonzie, Vinnie Barbarino, Alex Keaton, and most definitely JJ.

Well, now, Brian I do have the talking Florida Evans doll. It cost me $49.98 on Ebay. When you pull the string she will say the following:

Shut Up, J.J.

I'll get the door Ms. Findlay.

Thank the Lord for that!

James.....

J.J. stop moving around before something falls off!

Tell the Lord you're sorry kids.

That's nice, James.

Ms Finlay, I like to eat in the kitcehn by myself!

I like having a coat that keeps me warm, but I don't want one that's hot!

Monte is the one that said that Nixon is gon' be po' folks' best friend.

What do you mean your name is Henry? I thought it was James.

I live in Harlem...No, I live in Chicago!

D*mn! D*mn! D*mn

:lol:

Hey Brian, I thought that you would get a kick out of that!

Hey Brian, I thought that you would get a kick out of that!


Tom You forgot to add this Florida quote-"UNLESS A MAN IS SURE OF HIMSELF, HE AIN"T GOT NOTHING GOING FOR HIM BUT A PLATE OF COLD GRITS!


lol-lol

Hey Brian, I thought that you would get a kick out of that!


I did, it was very funny. :lol:

Tom You forgot to add this Florida quote-"UNLESS A MAN IS SURE OF HIMSELF, HE AIN"T GOT NOTHING GOING FOR HIM BUT A PLATE OF COLD GRITS!


lol-lol


I guess you bought the doll too? :lol:

As an original viewer of Good Times I stopped watching it after the Penny episodes. Back then I couldn't stand the changes they had done on the show.

As an original viewer of Good Times I stopped watching it after the Penny episodes. Back then I couldn't stand the changes they had done on the show.


So you played a part in the ratings taking a NOSE DIVE After 1977?-LOL-LOL

Penny was a vital and important character and a (great) addition to the show Good Times:p Penny was responsible for Willona to (finally grow up) and develop into a mature adult "with an enormous passion for a young child" (instead of superfical things like a man's income or clothing, etc); and if I am making you sick to your stomach with this b.s. statement then I will stop:lol: ;)


I'm about to throw up-lol

So you played a part in the ratings taking a NOSE DIVE After 1977?-LOL-LOL


Guilty as charged! :lol:

Well, now, Brian I do have the talking Florida Evans doll. It cost me $49.98 on Ebay. When you pull the string she will say the following:

Shut Up, J.J.

I'll get the door Ms. Findlay.

Thank the Lord for that!

James.....

J.J. stop moving around before something falls off!

Tell the Lord you're sorry kids.

That's nice, James.

Ms Finlay, I like to eat in the kitcehn by myself!

I like having a coat that keeps me warm, but I don't want one that's hot!

Monte is the one that said that Nixon is gon' be po' folks' best friend.

What do you mean your name is Henry? I thought it was James.

I live in Harlem...No, I live in Chicago!

D*mn! D*mn! D*mn



She mentions Maude's name...then it's official: GOOD TIMES IS A SPIN-OFF...CASE CLOSED!!!!!:p :D :lol: :crazy:

Having watched Good Times during its first run, it was JJ who was the main one. I didn't care for anyone in particular...but everywhere you looked, magazines, books, interviews, shirts, mugs, etc. etc. etc. it was abt JJ. No one else on Good Times.

She mentions Maude's name...then it's official: GOOD TIMES IS A SPIN-OFF...CASE CLOSED!!!!!:p :D :lol: :crazy:



Irene Tom was joking

She mentions Maude's name...then it's official: GOOD TIMES IS A SPIN-OFF...CASE CLOSED!!!!!:p :D :lol: :crazy:

Having watched Good Times during its first run, it was JJ who was the main one. I didn't care for anyone in particular...but everywhere you looked, magazines, books, interviews, shirts, mugs, etc. etc. etc. it was abt JJ. No one else on Good Times.

Thank you Irene, that is the point I am trying to drive home to Solomon. JJ was a star, not a co-star. Co-stars don't get all the publicity that Jimmie Walker got.

Irene Tom was joking
Duh!!!!! no s**t sherlock...er in this case, Solomon!!!!:crazy:

Irene Tom was joking

She knows he was joking, so was she.

The sad thing is Jimmie Was only Famous because of How ODD/UGLY he looked, nothing to do with his acting or him being funny. Just funny looking

i was serious abt the spin-off thing though...

JJ was on lunch boxes, school folders (peechees) book covers, comic books, on so many other products...it was THE JJ SHOW. He may not have been funny IN YOUR EYES, but to alot of people, he was. He was being imitated by alot of people.

i was serious abt the spin-off thing though...

JJ was on lunch boxes, school folders (peechees) book covers, comic books, on so many other products...it was THE JJ SHOW. He may not have been funny IN YOUR EYES, but to alot of people, he was. He was being imitated by alot of people.
That's true. JJ was hilarious in a lot of the episodes. He was the hook that got people to watch.

I think JJ is funny as hell!!! And I imitate things he says NOW!!! How can someone watch the show and not think he's funny??? After all, it's a COMEDY, not a drama series!!!! :D

The sad thing is Jimmie Was only Famous because of How ODD/UGLY he looked, nothing to do with his acting or him being funny. Just funny looking


That ugliness got him money and a hot wife, I'm sure he isn't complaining. Besides, despite what you say, you know JJ was a star. It doesn't matter how he was funny, people thought he was funny.

I took quotes from both "Maude" and "Good Times" and then threw in some of the fictional ones that you read. LOL. I would love to see the Florida Evans doll be on the market. That would be a hoot!

I loved Rolle, as an actress on Good Times. :D

No disrespect to Rolle fans, but look at the facts...Rolle left the show high and dry and basically had the kids living on their own in the ghetto which was ridiculous for a mother to do and then when she came back, she demanded that the JJ character be toned down and viewers HATED a mature JJ. What do you think?

I can agree with that to a certain extent. Her strong demands about changing the JJ character did not do any justice to the show. If anything, the show lost a lot of its spark. I have season 4 but only watched it a few times, alot less that seasons 1-3, which I watch all the time.

I can agree with that to a certain extent. Her strong demands about changing the JJ character did not do any justice to the show. If anything, the show lost a lot of its spark. I have season 4 but only watched it a few times, alot less that seasons 1-3, which I watch all the time.


Well to me he will always be behind James as important characters to the show. He wasn't the MAIN character in my opinion until season 5

Well to me he will always be behind James as important characters to the show. He wasn't the MAIN character in my opinion until season 5
and that's your view. But your views don't change what WAS. and when you have a view, don't insist that others have those views as well when it comes to our posts. I lived during that era and saw the impact he made on television.

As for Esther Rolle, God love her and may she rest in peace, but she had to have known how the JJ character was going to be. I doubt with her profesionalism and status in the business, she would not know in advance how the JJ character was going to be. They also had rehearsals, so, how could she not have said anything beforehand? If you start a job, your boss tells you what is expected of you, what will happen etc. If those things don't hold up, you approach him/her and say this is not what I was told. Why did she wait until a full season was done to start complaining?

Well, Esther Rolle the actress left the show high and dry, which forced the producers to go the parentless route for that one season. The alternative would have been killing off Florida, which would have meant the Evans family parents getting wiped out within a year of each other. I think that would have been worse for the show.

At least this way, they left the door open for Florida's return, which did happen in the show's 6th and final season. I don't think there was an easy way for the producers to deal with Rolle's departure - apparently some actresses don't appreciate having a well-paying job. I don't know the exact reasons for Rolle's departure, but salary is usually one of them when an actor/actress leaves a show without a movie or other career to fall back on.

I do agree with those who feel that show was never the same without John Amos - he was a strong presence both as an actor and character and that fifth season was definitely lacking without either of the parents being there for their family.

Apparently, they appeased Esther Rolle's salary demands in time for the fall 1978 season, but it was too little, too late for the viewing audience apparently.

and that's your view. But your views don't change what WAS. and when you have a view, don't insist that others have those views as well when it comes to our posts. I lived during that era and saw the impact he made on television.

As for Esther Rolle, God love her and may she rest in peace, but she had to have known how the JJ character was going to be. I doubt with her profesionalism and status in the business, she would not know in advance how the JJ character was going to be. They also had rehearsals, so, how could she not have said anything beforehand? If you start a job, your boss tells you what is expected of you, what will happen etc. If those things don't hold up, you approach him/her and say this is not what I was told. Why did she wait until a full season was done to start complaining?
probably because JJ was starting to overshadow her character and she was supposed to be the star of the show. That's probably what really ticked her off. :lol:

probably because JJ was starting to overshadow her character and she was supposed to be the star of the show. That's probably what really ticked her off. :lol:
i'd hate to think so, but yeah, could be very much true. He was the star...no matter what. It was his face on lunch boxes, not hers.

Well, Esther Rolle the actress left the show high and dry, which forced the producers to go the parentless route for that one season. The alternative would have been killing off Florida, which would have meant the Evans family parents getting wiped out within a year of each other. I think that would have been worse for the show.

At least this way, they left the door open for Florida's return, which did happen in the show's 6th and final season. I don't think there was an easy way for the producers to deal with Rolle's departure - apparently some actresses don't appreciate having a well-paying job. I don't know the exact reasons for Rolle's departure, but salary is usually one of them when an actor/actress leaves a show without a movie or other career to fall back on.

I do agree with those who feel that show was never the same without John Amos - he was a strong presence both as an actor and character and that fifth season was definitely lacking without either of the parents being there for their family.

Apparently, they appeased Esther Rolle's salary demands in time for the fall 1978 season, but it was too little, too late for the viewing audience apparently.



The show wouldn't have defintely lasted longer than 3 more seasons if Jimmie Walker had LEFT-lol

i'd hate to think so, but yeah, could be very much true. He was the star...no matter what. It was his face on lunch boxes, not hers.


Yup, his ugly ass face on all those lunch boxes to make someone uninterested in eating lunch-lol-lol

It wouldn't have gone on without JJ at all in the second season. Fans would have wanted to see him.

The show wouldn't have defintely lasted longer than 3 more seasons if Jimmie Walker had LEFT-lol

True. Jimmie was the show's teen appeal, which as we all know, irked John Amos and Esther Rolle to some degree.

Personally, they should have been content to be making good money at their craft and not gotten so worked up about the JJ character being a "questionable role model." It cost John Amos his job, which did hurt the show creatively and deprived the family of their father and role model.

I found the James character to be kind of annoying when he'd get so worked up about JJ being so goofy and outspoken. You'd think he would have resigned himself to it after all those years. JJ was an idiot, but he was basically a good kid.

True. Jimmie was the show's teen appeal, which as we all know, irked John Amos and Esther Rolle to some degree.

Personally, they should have been content to be making good money at their craft and not gotten so worked up about the JJ character being a "questionable role model." It cost John Amos his job, which did hurt the show creatively and deprived the family of their father and role model.

I found the James character to be kind of annoying when he'd get so worked up about JJ being so goofy and outspoken. You'd think he would have resigned himself to it after all those years. JJ was an idiot, but he was basically a good kid.


I would get worked up too if my oldest son was a GOOFBALL and not respected by younger sister and brother

The show wouldn't have defintely lasted longer than 3 more seasons if Jimmie Walker had LEFT-lol

The show would've been DOA without him. Where was the comedy going to come from?

The show would've been DOA without him. Where was the comedy going to come from?


From all the characters working together

From all the characters working together

Well let's see, Michael was unfunny, Thelma was unfunny, James was funny but mostly when he had JJ to work off of. Florida was funny in spurts. A lot of the drama was broke up with JJ's comedy.

Well let's see, Michael was unfunny, Thelma was unfunny, James was funny but mostly when he had JJ to work off of. Florida was funny in spurts. A lot of the drama was broke up with JJ's comedy.


Now you know James was FUNNY without J.J being around

Now you know James was FUNNY without J.J being around


I said James was funny, but he had memorable moments with JJ as his foil.

I said James was funny, but he had memorable moments with JJ as his foil.


He had memorable moments with Michael, Florida, Thelma, Willona, and Bookman. Wasn't just J.J

He had memorable moments with Michael, Florida, Thelma, Willona, and Bookman. Wasn't just J.J


I didn't say it was just JJ.

Bottom line, it was the JJ SHOW, or else why let Florida go instead of getting rid of JJ to appease her?

Bottom line, it was the JJ SHOW, or else why let Florida go instead of getting rid of JJ to appease her?


So she and John could SHARE the spotlight

John went on to Roots and Florida went back to Good Times. :lol:

John went on to Roots and Florida went back to Good Times. :lol:

exactly, she had nothing to fall back on.

John went on to Roots and Florida went back to Good Times. :lol:


John Amos starred in a Sci-Fi Program called Future Cop after Good Times in the spring of 1977 and then roots

John Amos starred in a Sci-Fi Program called Future Cop after Good Times in the spring of 1977 and then roots
Yea but he was moving forward. He wasn't just complaining about Good Times like Florida was. John's been on TV off and on since Good Times. Florida never did another show. I don't know if she guest starred on any. I do remember her doing all those psychic infomercials.

Yea but he was moving forward. He wasn't just complaining about Good Times like Florida was. John's been on TV off and on since Good Times. Florida never did another show. I don't know if she guest starred on any. I do remember her doing all those psychic infomercials.


She guest starred on the New Odd Couple in 1982

She guest starred on the New Odd Couple in 1982
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: something I am sure Esther wishes she had never done as well.

She guest starred on the New Odd Couple in 1982
Well that's something at least. :lol:

She guest starred on the New Odd Couple in 1982


Yeah, that was a great career move after a hit sitcom. :lol:

Yeah, that was a great career move after a hit sitcom. :lol:



Well the shows that Jimmie "MONKEY FACE" Walker starred on after Good Times FAILED too. His 1980 show was YANKED, his 1983 show called AT EASE was PULLED also. lol

Well the shows that Jimmie "MONKEY FACE" Walker starred on after Good Times FAILED too. His 1980 show was YANKED, his 1983 show called AT EASE was PULLED also. lol

True, but he had dolls, lunchboxes, pajamas, posters etc...

His 1987 sitcom Bustin' Loose was canceled after one year as well. Thelma did guest star on one episode. It was hard for me to see them in these different roles. LOL. He was Sonny and she was Ms. Fishman.

As far as Esther goes, I think that she had a right to voice her opinion. She was the star of the show. She and John Amos were the backbone. The show continued with Wilona and J.J. as the stars of the show and look at what happened; Norman Lear asked Esther Rolle to come back. I am glad too because it was giving the last season some closure although many people are not in love with the last season(but I loved it). J.J. was like a dessert. He was good for enjoying but a little too much dessert can make you sick or you just get tired of it. Esther Rolle and John Amos were the foundation of the show. When that foundation was gone in season 5, it seemed to me as though the show lost its balance.

I am not saying make J.J. an unfunny character, but do not put Esther in the background either. She was the heart of the show. Norman should have just given her some more money like she asked. As far as Esther goes, I applaud her for standing up for what she thought was right, but her absence did hurt the show. I wish she had stayed and stuck it out. I am glad that she and Norman Lear came to an agreement. They hired new producers and gave her the raise and used her input on scripts. That's the way it should have been IMO.

BTW, Esther had "Rolles" in the following after Good Times:

This info is from IMDB.
Train Ride (2000) .... Dean of Students


Down in the Delta (1998) .... Annie Sinclair
"Poltergeist: The Legacy"
- La Belle Dame Sans Merci (1998) TV Episode .... Grandma Rose
"Touched by an Angel"
- Amazing Grace: Part 2 (1997) TV Episode .... Mary Harding
- Amazing Grace: Part 1 (1997) TV Episode .... Mary Harding
Rosewood (1997) .... Aunt Sarah
My Fellow Americans (1996) .... Rita
How to Make an American Quilt (1995) .... Anna's Aunt Pauline
"Scarlett" (1994) (mini) TV Series .... Mammy
To Dance with the White Dog (1993) (TV) .... Neelie
Message from Nam (1993) (TV) .... Queenie/Elizabeth McQueen
... aka Danielle Steel's 'Message from Nam' (UK)
House of Cards (1993) .... Adelle
Blackbird Fly (1991)
"Singer & Sons" (1990) TV Series .... Sarah Patterson
The Kid Who Loved Christmas (1990) (TV) .... Esther Clayton


Age-Old Friends (1989) (TV) .... Mrs. Baker
... aka A Month of Sundays
Driving Miss Daisy (1989) .... Idella
The Mighty Quinn (1989) .... Ubu Pearl
A Raisin in the Sun (1989) (TV) .... Lena 'Mama' Younger
P.K. and the Kid (1987) .... Mim
"Murder, She Wrote"
- Reflections of the Mind (1985) TV Episode .... Margaret
"The Love Boat"
- Getting Started/Daughter's Dilemma/The Captain Wears Pantyhose (1985) TV Episode
- I Like to be in America/He Ain't Heavy/Abbey's Maiden Voyage (1983) TV Episode
"Finder of Lost Loves"
- Goodbye, Sara (1984) TV Episode .... Nellie
"Fantasy Island"
- Edward/The Extraordinary Miss Jones (1983) TV Episode .... Mama
"The New Odd Couple"
- The Ides of April (1982) TV Episode .... Mrs. Gibbs
"Flamingo Road"
- The Harder They fall (1982) TV Episode .... Julia
- The High and the Mighty (1982) TV Episode .... Julia
The Tragedy of Romeo and Juliet (1982) .... Nurse
"Darkroom"
- Needlepoint (1981) TV Episode .... Grandmother/Old Woman
See China and Die (1981) (TV) .... Momma Sykes
... aka Momma the Detective (USA)


"The Incredible Hulk"
- Behind the Wheel (1979) TV Episode .... Colleen Jensen
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings (1979) (TV) .... Momma

True, but he had dolls, lunchboxes, pajamas, posters etc...
mugs, folders, and the hats!!!! He had it made. Besides, by the time those shows of his came on, we had been DYNOMITED OUT, which is why those two shows of his failed.

I wouldn't say it was all Esther's fault, by the sixth season the show had run its course.

I wouldn't say it was all Esther's fault, by the sixth season the show had run its course.

As most sitcoms do by that point, generally speaking. Good call.

I wouldn't say it was all Esther's fault, by the sixth season the show had run its course.

That is very true, however, after Esther left, the show just died. Season six was basically run in the summer when NOBODY was watching.

mugs, folders, and the hats!!!! He had it made. Besides, by the time those shows of his came on, we had been DYNOMITED OUT, which is why those two shows of his failed.

He was basically type cast as "KId Dynomite." lol

He was basically type cast as "KId Dynomite." lol
so very true. Anytime I seen him on television (not all, but a lot) he would wear a t-shirt that said DYNOMITE on it. He was forever wearing that damn hat after the show too.

so very true. Anytime I seen him on television (not all, but a lot) he would wear a t-shirt that said DYNOMITE on it. He was forever wearing that damn hat after the show too.

You say the sweetest things. :lol: :lol:

You say the sweetest things. :lol: :lol:
:D :lol: :wave:

I found this picture on the web. It would be just a year before Esther Rolle died. :(

I have no idea who the man is.

http://www.skipmason.com/images/pic07.jpg
Greeting Miss Esther Rolle of “Good Times” at the National Black Arts Festival Gala,
c. 1997

I found this picture on the web. It would be just a year before Esther Rolle died. :(

I have no idea who the man is.

http://www.skipmason.com/images/pic07.jpg
Greeting Miss Esther Rolle of “Good Times” at the National Black Arts Festival Gala,
c. 1997
awwwwww....:D

Nice pic :)