in my 100% honest and blunt usual manner

i submit that every person who gets on the bad trader list, due to numerous users testimony, needs to be removed from the site on a permant basis

im not talking about stinky 243 that makes a 4 disc trade and is late

and not about stinky444 who amkes a swap and two discs dont work and he cant get redos from his source

im not talking about a slow person, etc

only a history of bad deals, lies, devious disregard for others, backed up by testimony from known and trusted memebrs in good standing

and then the automatic boot to the scammer shunning department

not onyl would this serve as a punishment for those scumbags who steal from people, tell lies, etc

it would also serve as an example of dont let this happen to you

its not fair that those who abuse our trust,a nd help, and are exposed, are still left to the site to do more damage

i read the yahoo boarsd about once a week, it makes my rearend sick when i see scammer after scammer on those , out in the light of day

then people ask me, why dont you get active on _____ yahoo site

get real

i despise the thieves and scammers

i have donated so much to them its unreal

i
yes it makes my butt sick to see them post here on our community

I agree 100%

If you have shown a complete disregard for many users and have consistently been shown as a bad trader, you have no business on this forum.

I do think there are some circumstances where a banned user or bad trader can be reinstated on probation. For example CYN Calderon disappearred off the map for 6 months and several trades went bad. However when she came back it was explained that she went to the middle east on family emergency and really had very little internet access.

To my understanding she made good on all commitments (including myself) and re established her good trader reputation. I am sure there are others, we all know that sometimes life throws us curveballs and if someone appears to be a bad trader that is not necessarily the case.

If you are on the bad trader list you should be banned until proven otherwise. I think the mods are very careful before adding someone to this list and if they are there, it is for good reason.

I do not always check the bad trader listings so for the most part I take for granted that the people here posting are probably not on the list. If that is not the case, my vote is to change it.

Cheers
Jay:crazy:

in my 100% honest and blunt usual manner

i submit that every person who gets on the bad trader list, due to numerous users testimony, needs to be removed from the site on a permant basis

im not talking about stinky 243 that makes a 4 disc trade and is late

and not about stinky444 who amkes a swap and two discs dont work and he cant get redos from his source

im not talking about a slow person, etc

only a history of bad deals, lies, devious disregard for others, backed up by testimony from known and trusted memebrs in good standing

and then the automatic boot to the scammer shunning department

not onyl would this serve as a punishment for those scumbags who steal from people, tell lies, etc

it would also serve as an example of dont let this happen to you

its not fair that those who abuse our trust,a nd help, and are exposed, are still left to the site to do more damage

i read the yahoo boarsd about once a week, it makes my rearend sick when i see scammer after scammer on those , out in the light of day

then people ask me, why dont you get active on _____ yahoo site

get real

i despise the thieves and scammers

i have donated so much to them its unreal

i
yes it makes my butt sick to see them post here on our community

Maybe a "jury" could be selected to vote on it. The pool might consist of let's say "good traders with over X number of posts" or X number of years as a member. From that list, Savage might select 9 or 12 names at random. They would be emailed to see if they wished to participate as a "juror". If they declined, another name would be selected, until the alotted number were obtained. Then a vote would be taken. They could be sentenced to life at hard labor or in severe cases, "death"! OK. We can't do that...even if that's how some people feel. What do you think?

A jury of your peers, I LIKE it! Would have to be totally random though or maybe 1-2 mods, 3-4 junkies, 5-6 regulars kinda thing.

If we institute "Death Sentences" I would have to vote for the hangman to be Joker (he would be more hesitant cause once you kill them they are hard to torment).

there was a plan for a trader commitee at one point

but the idea never got off the ground

no matter how its set up

it needs to be people who are active traders who --get around--

the last committee was comprised of a person who never traded

there were also restrictions made so that persons who sold, would be excluded

which excluded 95% of the most active traders--or more

just once it would be nice to see a committee that was assembled by merit, and not by political connection, or the title of ____ whatever

Probably more like 98% would be excluded.

A committee seems like a good idea on the outside but when you get
to the heart of the matter. You're never going to make everyone happy
as far as who to ban and who not to ban. One person who got cheated
will go ballistic the first time the "committee" decides not to ban that person.
etc.

Savage did an excellent job of listing the criteria for being a bad trader.
but much of that ends up being opinion. Where one piece of the criteria
is important to one person, to another it doesn't matter at all.

As far as a jury goes. It's an idea. but honestly how many people are
going to actively participate in something like that? Even if it was
anonymous people are going to find out who said what and who decided
to ban who. Then tempers will flare and people will lose out on trades
to "friends" of the people accused.

Then you have to work in the idea of whether someone can be reformed
who has been labeled a bad trader but can reform themselves to be
a excellent trader. They learned they're lesson and made restitution
of all the past mistakes.

Lots of things to discuss there before worrying about how to pick a jury
of the peers of the group.

i guess thats the difference in thought

i will publicly state my case and the facts for all to see

theres no need to remain unknown

to me thats underhanded


the fact remains theres a notorius thief on the bad trader list

and is still allowed to post and make trouble

and still make more poor deals

and is currently is a huge deal thats gone south

maybe the next deal they make is with you




and as far as going ballastic when a deal goes goes bad

please

didnt you read last week

i said i had a 133 disc trade that i wrote off as a total loss--and never made a bad trader post

why

because the person did everything possible to make good, and it just wasnt possible

they even reran the 133 discs, with the ty discs i provided

and still the new versons just wouldntt do it

so no, its not a witch hunt

its only for people who perform poorly over a period, and tell lies to cover, even when numerous trusted members tell the story

That is true, even i screw up--- my first swap with loren-- a total disaster, but i fixed it and we moved past it

THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE

there are some people who flat out are bad traders---NOT AN OCCASIONAL MESS UP, or deal that goes south-- BUT AN OVER AND OVER AND OVER consistent pattern of lying, sending crap quality on crap discs, that often do not work.... of misrepresenting quality and completeness of stuff---- of LACK OF COMMUNICATION or, of OVERWHELMINGLY OBSESSIVE communication--- people who owe multliple traders large orders for months and months and months--- people who PRE-TRADE sets they do not even have yet ( YOU KNOW, so and so is sending me such and such, and then i have to send it to joe to get mike to send this..... and on and on--- and it falls all to hell and 3 or 4 get burned) THESE ARE BAD TRADERS

even good traders have deals that go bad---- one party is not happy, one party was slow or late--- or unexpected disc problems popped up--- it happens to ALL OF US
and we might get ticked off at the moment, but we move on b/c that trader 99% of the time is just fine

BUTTTTT I think anyone that has mulitple complaints about them (THAT ARE LEGIT) and has a PATTERN of complaints needs to be banned and canned----
and i think that other factors should play into it --- I KNOW THAT STUFF OFF THE BOARD stays off the board---- BUTTTTTTT

I also think that traders who have other problems on other boards (LIKE IF JOE SMITH has been banned on 5 other sites and shows up here--- THAT SHOULD BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT when reviewing his case)

of if SALLY JONES has a lot of issues with sending other users OBSCENE, THREATENING or VIOLENT emails--- that should be a mitigating circumstance -- not a reason in itself to ban anyone, BUTTT it should be considered when reviewing someones case

also, there are some traders who are not good traders, they have crap stuff, or they are new and dont know what the heck they are doing---- so we should take that into acccount too--- is this person just a newbie? who doesnt know a 6 of 10 from an 8 of 10? or have they been around the block a few times, and are just dishonest?

Okay, so here is my question.

Who sets the idea of what is an excessive amount of problems?

Who gets to say 3 problems and your out, 4 problems and your out
5 problems and your out. Or is it based on % of problems.

As far as anonymous behavior. Look at the stuff that just got thrown
down over posts that were deleted and how that was taken completely
off the deep end. Do you really think that the same thing wouldn't happen
if someone who a popular trader liked would jump on a bandwagon of
character assasination?

Whether it's liked or not. It's been determined far too often that the maturity
level of the group here tends to fall on the kindgarten taunting and infighting
when people disagree. Logic gets thrown aside and then it becomes a name
calling contest.

I will give you an example. There is one trader on this board that I know has
at least 6 problems against them. And it was spelled out in the open what these problems were. They still continue to trade here and have never approached everyone who they have messed over. Some they approached
because it was more beneficial for them to fix them up. That way they could
ignore the other ones that weren't as popular or weren't as critical to they're
reputation.

But I would guarantee 100% that if I said the persons name on here or they're
sitcoms name on here that 10 people would say "no no no they shouldn't be banned they're good trader and then it ends up being a pissing contest.
But if what happened was described without names. Then people would
be lining up the lynch mobs from the get go.

You cannot set up a system of banning or censoring someone until you set up
the system to determine what an offense is and how much can be tolerated
by the system. And if the system is set up that allows popularity to determine attendence. Then it's doomed to fail.

OK..I KNOW I SHORTED LAMONT A DISK OF LOBO,,BUT IM SORRY DONT BANN ME,,I WANT CHEAT NO MORE,,OK MAYBE 1 MORE TIME,,I STILL GOT TO CHEAT LOREN SOME HOW,,,:lol:

Okay, so here is my question.

Who sets the idea of what is an excessive amount of problems?

Who gets to say 3 problems and your out, 4 problems and your out
5 problems and your out. Or is it based on % of problems.

As far as anonymous behavior. Look at the stuff that just got thrown
down over posts that were deleted and how that was taken completely
off the deep end. Do you really think that the same thing wouldn't happen
if someone who a popular trader liked would jump on a bandwagon of
character assasination?

Whether it's liked or not. It's been determined far too often that the maturity
level of the group here tends to fall on the kindgarten taunting and infighting
when people disagree. Logic gets thrown aside and then it becomes a name
calling contest.

I will give you an example. There is one trader on this board that I know has
at least 6 problems against them. And it was spelled out in the open what these problems were. They still continue to trade here and have never approached everyone who they have messed over. Some they approached
because it was more beneficial for them to fix them up. That way they could
ignore the other ones that weren't as popular or weren't as critical to they're
reputation.

But I would guarantee 100% that if I said the persons name on here or they're
sitcoms name on here that 10 people would say "no no no they shouldn't be banned they're good trader and then it ends up being a pissing contest.
But if what happened was described without names. Then people would
be lining up the lynch mobs from the get go.

You cannot set up a system of banning or censoring someone until you set up
the system to determine what an offense is and how much can be tolerated
by the system. And if the system is set up that allows popularity to determine attendence. Then it's doomed to fail.


bullcookies

theres already a system to ban people

and almost everyone on the bad trader list has been banned

now all of a sudden, that has stopped for one reason or another

if you know of someone with numeorus problems, its your duty to inform the group and call them out

if you dont, thats the same as working with them, the next person that gets tore up, would surely like you to have said something

next

there an entire bunch of difference in having some disc here and there mess up, or one--package get lost, or forget a couple, whatever

than having numerous major problems,

the people on the bad trader list, have earned their way to the top

i have personaly been crapped on by almost everyone on the bad trader list

if you are on the bad trader list, how is it possibly ok to continue trading here. that makes no sense. so when a newbie signs up and starts trading, and doesn't know to check the bad trader list because they are new, they are going to possibly get screwed because we didn't want to hurt somebody's feelings. if you've done something to get on the bad traders list, why is it so hard to just ban them at the same time

To touch upon something CartoonDvd's Said


The bad trader list- is hard to be 100% sure on.
Some people do btohc up trades left and right, and do at some point try to fic it- and correct it.
It depends on how and why they came to be on the list

A good clue

When you see Bad trader "
Alias::
Alias:::
Alias::::

Thats a pretty solid tip


We do, try to investgate all we can before
We contact the user- we contact older trades, we post for feedback
we run address checks and IP checks-

We do what we can, before anything is put on that list

And any trader ON that list- can, if they wish contact us- and we will try to help them mediate the situation.

In example-
A user on the list:

She has been in contact with me, and is aware she is on it-
and is unhappy with it.

She has asked my advice, she has asked for my help to fix things, resolve.
Burner questions
Posting questions and so on.

Will she be able to repair her reputation- I don't know.

But that is why she isn't "Banned" but on the Bad Trader list-

Now that isn't to say that won't change-

I am just giving an example

There is a difference to a bad peson and bad trader
A different to a bad poster, or a bad trader.

It takes all sorts and we try to review nad make exception to all things.
Opinions, background, language barriers, hitory, other sites, users feedback, intentions - and so on.


So again, to just be named a bad trader, doesn't always mean POOF they go bye bye.

But, usaully 99% of the time, that does seem how it ends up.

But we do try to research everything, and we do try to allow users to make ammends-

Some people have made multiple mistakes, been deemed a bad trader/user and were able to work it out and cme back stronger than before.
Anything is possible-

Which is why this thread is So productive, because it is the feedback that really really helps in the communication and process of making these choices.


And as my previous thread this week stated-
There is more to being a bad trader, then just did you or didn't you get your discs
and I was THRILLED at the input and opinions posted on that, and the chance for people to speak up and say "YES yes that bothers me too, or wow I never thought of that"

if you are on the bad trader list, how is it possibly ok to continue trading here. that makes no sense. so when a newbie signs up and starts trading, and doesn't know to check the bad trader list because they are new, they are going to possibly get screwed because we didn't want to hurt somebody's feelings. if you've done something to get on the bad traders list, why is it so hard to just ban them at the same time

not a lot of people ever go to the top of the board to look

honestly, wouldnt you think that if a person is posting on a trade board, they woudlnt also be on that trade boards black list??

its not just for newbies

there are list of folks who read once in a while,and can skip over things

If they are on the list and not banned I think at minimum they should have something on their moniker.

i.e. on probation, potential trader risk.

This thread has made me want o go through the bad traders list and see who is here that is on that list. I had assumed that for the majority of cases they were banned.

Savage if you all of a sudden started scamming other traders (I picked you cause the least likely candidate) and many people came forward and said they were ripped off by you. I may defend our past history and issues but a bad trader is a bad trader. IMO if you are on the list you should be gone or on public probation.

I know easier said than done and you can see proof on Cmax how people are coming to Wolfs defense. But if we have a bad trader list at all then I believe those on it should not be here as it send the wrong message.

"you are a bad trader but if no one notices we will wait until you get someone else too"

I must say that I would never want to have the job as a mod because you can never make everyone happy. You guys have a tough job and like referees in sport every once in awhile there might be a borderline call but the game can't go on with you guys.

not a lot of people ever go to the top of the board to look

honestly, wouldnt you think that if a person is posting on a trade board, they woudlnt also be on that trade boards black list??

its not just for newbies

there are list of folks who read once in a while,and can skip over things

Good it is not just me who made that assumption

that all sounds like a wonderful expalination, but the fact remains, numerous people have come forth and publicaly denounced this person as bad news

then numerous people did it in private,a dn the stories were the same

how many negative reports does it take

kim, seriously, even your limited trade with the same person was a mess

she lied to you

she told you all your discs were no good

she said she had something and didnt

then she said she had something else and didnt

and then she said she had a third thing READY , and then a few days later she reports that she was about done with it

things that are ready are never days later, about done

and then the final result, was far less than promised

and thats with a moderator,

the rest of the folks were never as fortunate

kim, you have report after report about the same user

a few more hollow promises and more denials are not going to magicaly make her become a good citizen again

the rest of the bad traders never got this play, they got ran right away--like they should have

I dont deny there have been a lot of problems, assuming the user you are discussing is Sheri220.


But, let me say this out and public- sheri and Tj are also aware of numerous complaints.

Sheri reads the threads, and she is aware, painfully of the complaints.

But the over all decision to ban a user isn't in my court-
I give feedback, I give opinions, I share my insight.

Oh I don't deny that I am responsible FOR bannings and suspensions.

Hopefully all, in retrospect for the right reason.


I say this- as I have no need to beat around the bush.

Yes Sheri has had complaints about her.
Many - a few threads etc-
But I alos received some thumbs up.
Why they didn't get said publically, is up to those users.

However, all information has been discussed with both Sheri and Tj, and I know we discussed it, the three of us discussed, and the two of them discussed it

Therefore her standing on the board has been decided for whatever reasons, between them ultimately.

As far as "How many complaints'
Sometimes it only takes one.

But ultimately only One can decide if the banning is necessary.
As far as I know-
Sheri at one point said she would be relieved to be banned-

As far as that situation goes.

But I was speaking more generally.

Now as far as specific, since you mentioned- Yes i was told in my trade to Sheri various discs, didn't work-
and I outwardly told her my suspicions and on that she waived me sending them-

I had issues with some of her discs, and they were replaced by priority mail.

So my specific, personal situation was taken care of.

And if you look in the feedback section, i posted postiive feedback, because I had not issues with her trade after that.

And other issues, excessive contact etc- I discussed and have given her my opinion on that, as well as many other issues.
And yes, the original item I wanted, she didn't have- I was unahppy and told her so straight out.
The second item as "complete' wasn't I complained about that.
She is aware of my complaints-

Just one example of the long discussed saga-

If that sheds any light on things

then i guess it needs to be hammered on until something causes it to change

as far as her being relieved by being banned

ya right

she cant stop reading these posts

she cant stop trying to email people even after being told not to 100 times

she cant stop trying to phone people even after being told to

she had her chance three weeks ago to just go away

and why doidnt anyone come foward and say she was a good tarder, when over 1750 people read the public exposure

simple she didnt have time to work on them and make promises for their good word

anyone who says anything for her now, has been talked into it

and thus it means nothing

they werent going to do it in the public, because they couldnt hold up to cross examination

more back door underhanded moves

even sue maples had people say in posts that she was a good trader, sheri220 didnt have a single one

i guess even when people follow the proper rules and post facts, and get backed up by some of the most reputable people on the site,and have numerous other complaints from sitcoms members, the queen of the scammers is still allowed to be in the ranks

im just missing the point again

then i guess it needs to be hammered on until something causes it to change

as far as her being relieved by being banned

ya right

she cant stop reading these posts

she cant stop trying to email people even after being told not to 100 times

she cant stop trying to phone people even after being told to

she had her chance three weeks ago to just go away

and why doidnt anyone come foward and say she was a good tarder, when over 1750 people read the public exposure

simple she didnt have time to work on them and make promises for their good word

anyone who says anything for her now, has been talked into it

and thus it means nothing

they werent going to do it in the public, because they couldnt hold up to cross examination

more back door underhanded moves

even sue maples had people say in posts that she was a good trader, sheri220 didnt have a single one

i guess even when people follow the proper rules and post facts, and get backed up by some of the most reputable people on the site,and have numerous other complaints from sitcoms members, the queen of the scammers is still allowed to be in the ranks

im just missing the point again
Ok....First off I want to say that I am not "being talked into" this post as Loren stated would be done if anyone came forward. I am a well educated Professional and I don't have to be talked into anything. I form my own opinions based on how I'm dealt with, not by what others say or tell me....
I stayed out of that BIG thread about Sheri220 because I really didn't want to get into the middle of things. You all were posting your complaints and such and I didn't feel I had any right to get into the middle of it. BUT, now that you mention that nobody came forward to say she was/is a good trader, I would like to do that now. Sheri has sent me some really good shows, way more DVDs than I've sent to her. She has been very kind to me in every phone call and email that we've had. The ONLY issue I had with her was too many emails and phone calls and when I addressed that with her, she cut it out. Sorry, Sheri-I don't want to hurt your feelings, I'm just telling things like they are. That is the ONLY thing she has done but that doesn't make her a bad trader to me. To me, she has been a good trader and sent what she promised to and more and I will continue to deal with her no matter what anyone else thinks about it. I can hold up to any cross examination as mentioned by Loren, I do it for a living-I can certainly do it here but I don't think there is any need for that, I am just stating MY opinion and MY experiences with Sheri just like everyone who complained did.

There are a couple of things to remember. And another reason why this
"Banned" idea is flawed.

It isn't that difficult to get an IP anonymizer and be able to log back into
this board even if the IP is banned.

Free E-mail services make it so that you can get an e-mail account
(I have several, mostly for junk mail but a few I keep for different
reasons).

Addresses are not easily changed. But it's not that difficult to get items
sent to friends, families and other addresses. All untraceable other than
the city. That would require someone to take the time to check the
bad trader list, see that city is questionable. And most people just don't
take the time for that.

You're next step is to make it that everyone has to be approved to join
this group. And not to put words in TJ's mouth, but that ain't gonna
anytime soon.

So to me that shoots a huge whole in the banning issue anyway. If they
want to get back on the board. They will get back on the board.

Sue Maples is an excellent example of someone who probably still
is on this board in some capacity. If you don't have any way to
"punish" someone. Then it makes the rest of the idea become moot.

That's why the Bad Trader list is really the only protection out there.
That and being smart enough to request references for people who
you don't know. Otherwise Cavaet commerciante (let the trader beware)

Loren

I agree with your logic but if this is in TJ's hands then the mods can't do anything and so send him an email or let it drop. Everyone has the right to their own opinion but in the grand scheme of things the "owners" have the final say and the "workers" have the option to look elsewhere or put up with the rules

1. just because a BAD TRADER does a few good trades with some people DOES NOT MAKE THEM GOOD, see the thread about wolf11---- he is on the crazymax board now, and they love him there----IT WASNT UNTIL joey1727, cartoondvds, darkman and me went there asking for the 200+ discs he owes people, that he was outed as a bad trader and a dirtbag

EVEN THE WORST like sheri lerman and sue maples traders have SOMEONE that is happy with them so that means squat -- saying "so and so is ok, because they never screwed me over" is like saying "Jeffrey Dahmer was ok, because he never killed and ate my brother!" ---- i mean, if i hear from savageamusement and loren and joker that JOE SMITH the trader ripped them off, I AM NOT ABOUT TO TRADE WITH Joe Smith for myself just to be sure---- I am gonna stear clear!

2. if a person as savageamusement says, wants to fix something BUT COINCIDENTALLY ONLY WANTS TO FIX IT "After"it becomes a public issue, then that means nothing to me at all

I mean look at the wolf11 situation, he FINALLY sent me 7 discs after 8 months of lies, BUT ONLY AFTER HE GOT SLAMMED on that other site--- does that make him a good trader? Heck no, he is still bad, he was NOT repeat NOT trying to make anything right, he was trying to look good. so when a trader has MANY complaints and also MANY prior chances to fix them, and does nothing--- THEN SUDDENLY wants to fix things, ONCE IT BECOMES Public knowledge, that is total B.S. to me, sort of like DEATH ROW RELIGIOUS CONVERSIONS! --- and I aint buying that crapola!

If a person is sorry, they try to make things right WHEN IT HAPPENS, they dont ignore your emails for 6 months, or bad mouth you to others for 6 months--- and SUDDENLY "see the light" when a moderator gets involved!

Yes we all screw up, and yes Joey did send me a set missing a disc (no big deal by the way) and yes i have sent out sets in my trading time that were missing an ep or 2 that i didnt know about, and so has everyone---noone is perfect----

BUT there are some folks that we all know are bad traders---- people that "Most of the Experience crew" will NOT touch with a 10 foot pole--- BUTTTTTT we just let them hang around, and let other newbies or less experience traders get sucked into the same messes that we do.

who should be banned? tough call, i know---- but, to me, anyone with MULTIPLE BAD COMPLAINTS should be out of here----

if they want to fix them, GREAT!!!!! Fix them, and then maybe 6 months later they can asked to be reinstated if all the SCREWED OVER Parties do not object and are resolved----- but letting them stay active to do more bad trades - is a bit illogical to Lamont here

Again, I also am not putting words in TJ's mouth.

I was only saying that its public knowledge a moderator doen'st haev the same capabilities-as owners obviouslly

And that this particular situation was raised to his attention-
And I do know that dicussion took place between the user in question and the owner.

So the outcome of that, is ultimately out of my hands-

The reason of that, would be for Tj to say should he choose so-

But the thread was more, a generlized outline- not a verbatim schedule of consequences.

It's a hobbiest board after all
It isn't supposed to be a jury.

You as a community, read the list- and give us the moderators feedback on issues-
some is already knowledgable to us- some isn't

We make certian decisions, and have various abilities

And then we have the administrators and the owner whome we report to-

A sort of check and balance system

Is it perfect?
No
Few systems are-


I can't say I agree with every banning, anymore than I can say that some should be banned that aren't.

BUt as a case by case issues, overall we try to do the best we can.
You as the community
We as moderators and staff
and the Owner above all of course.

Just a thought but is it posible to put some type of icon a stopsign for instance. You have a red , yellow and green light on it.

For someone who is on the good traders list they have a green light beside their moniker

For someone on the bad traders list there is a red light

For an unrated or someone who hapens to be one both lists (not sure if there is) they get a yellow



For Joker he gets a red and blue as the police come to take him back to Arkam Asylum :lol:

Just a thought but is it posible to put some type of icon a stopsign for instance. You have a red , yellow and green light on it.

For someone who is on the good traders list they have a green light beside their moniker

For someone on the bad traders list there is a red light

For an unrated or someone who hapens to be one both lists (not sure if there is) they get a yellow



For Joker he gets a red and blue as the police come to take him back to Arkam Asylum :lol:
Cartoondvds-
I like your idea! That way if the light is yellow, people would know that they
need to proceed with caution....very good!

besides, do we REALLY want a bunch of RED LIGHT Scammers STILL ON THE BOARD??? :(

is flawed

we want to get rid of bad traders

not just color code them as dirtbags

is flawed

we want to get rid of bad traders

not just color code them as dirtbags
What is it that you would like Sheri to do that would make things better so these posts don't exist? That way it can be dropped once and for all. If she is "banned" that doesn't fix whatever she did anyway so why not figure out a way that she can make things right with you or whoever so that these constant bad trader posts can go away and we can get back to enjoying trading here. All of this drama is ridiculous and it's a waste of everyone's time and energy....I know we cannot all get along but what can be done to make things better? I'm sure Sheri would be willing to do something so this all can stop. She's a nice person.

I have heard a lot lately about

SO AND SO did 2 good trades with me, so they cannot be all bad

well, noone is ALL Bad

BUT being a bad trader is NOT based on how many good trades a person has done

Rather it is based on how many BAD trades or other bad trading issues someone has done----

Just as we do not convict murderers on how many people they DIDNT kill, we charge them with the ones they DID Kill

5 good trades with someone, does NOT erase the problems of 5 bad trades with another person, and if someone has a good trade with a Bad Trader, they should count themselves as lucky

Also, I think a lot of other factors should play a part

such as

1. the persons attitude--- are they a generally nice person, who doesnt know S*** from Shinola? or are they are total Jerk, who sends harassing, threatening, violent, degrading or profane emails to users in private but kisses tail in public?

2. the persons experience--- we all know that some new traders, have not learned yet and make mistakes, more than experience traders, so if a newbie drops the ball we can understand that a little

3. does the person act responsibly? this is sort of vague---BUT FOR INSTANCE if a person is asked to LEAVE YOU ALONE and not contact you again--- do they do so? or do they harass you and email u repeatedly no matter what?

4. how the person behaves to others---- if so and so does a bad deal with me and tells me they are SORRY, but then they bad mouth me to other people, over and over and over again, and i hear from people how JOAN SMITH says im two faced or a dirtbag, or scum or such--- then that shows lack of integrity and character--- and ALTHOUGH this is NOT reason to band someone, i think it should be looked at when the mods make the final call

just me rambling


:crysoup:

is flawed

we want to get rid of bad traders

not just color code them as dirtbags


Part of the issue expressed by both yourself and Loren is that these people continue to trade here and some people do not check the bad trader board. It would address one of the issues.

"the pyramids were built one stone at a time"

This is just a suggestion to start/or add to the foundation not complete the project in one go. I do not even know if it is something feasible I just thought I would throw it out there

Also, I think a lot of other factors should play a part

such as

1. the persons attitude--- are they a generally nice person, who doesnt know S*** from Shinola? or are they are total Jerk, who sends harassing, threatening, violent, degrading or profane emails to users in private but kisses tail in public?

2. the persons experience--- we all know that some new traders, have not learned yet and make mistakes, more than experience traders, so if a newbie drops the ball we can understand that a little

3. does the person act responsibly? this is sort of vague---BUT FOR INSTANCE if a person is asked to LEAVE YOU ALONE and not contact you again--- do they do so? or do they harass you and email u repeatedly no matter what?

4. how the person behaves to others---- if so and so does a bad deal with me and tells me they are SORRY, but then they bad mouth me to other people, over and over and over again, and i hear from people how JOAN SMITH says im two faced or a dirtbag, or scum or such--- then that shows lack of integrity and character--- and ALTHOUGH this is NOT reason to band someone, i think it should be looked at when the mods make the final call

just me rambling


I am sure all these things are taken into consideration. I do not pretend to know the circumstances but if the person has not been banned then there has to be a reason.

Is there some blackmail or death threats as part of this? I do not believe there is anything quite so insideous

Was TJ and the mods paid a million $ to keep them? i am sure they would love that

But regardless of the reason, the banning did not occur so the people make themselves heard and maybe a compromise is found and maybe it is not. But either way we have to move on.

My (not always welcome) 2 cents

Cheers

What is it that you would like Sheri to do that would make things better so these posts don't exist? That way it can be dropped once and for all. If she is "banned" that doesn't fix whatever she did anyway so why not figure out a way that she can make things right with you or whoever so that these constant bad trader posts can go away and we can get back to enjoying trading here. All of this drama is ridiculous and it's a waste of everyone's time and energy....I know we cannot all get along but what can be done to make things better? I'm sure Sheri would be willing to do something so this all can stop. She's a nice person.


April, you and I have ALWAYS had good dealings and i do not want to be at odds with you, for the record, I adore april4972 and she is a GREAT TRADER, she gets TWO THUMBS WAY UP from me--- and I fully, 100% understand that YOUR dealings with Sheri have been more limited and more Sane than mine---


AND also, this post Was NOT directed at sheri220, nowhere did i mention her by name, nowhere did i refer to her or even imply her

This thread was about BAD TRADERS as a whole, NOT just sheri220 -- as you may or may not be aware, SEVERAL bad traders have come back in the last month with aliases and secret identities, some came back to blast me, some came back to blast loren, some came back to steal some more from us---- so there are MANY who I was discussing -- and 2 others I had in mind personally as I typed (i wont out those names since noone else has), there have also been other BAD TRADER Posts this month about a few other members of this board--- who are ALL still here--- again, i aint naming names, but u can peruse the Feedback section to see who is and isnt included-

ALSO as for Sheri220 being a NICE person--- I never made a post that SHERI220 is NOT A NICE PERSON, the posts that were made were that she was a BAD TRADER--- a lot of bad traders might be Nice People, but that doesnt mean squat in this discussion. Does someone feel any better if they got done dirty by a NICE person as opposed to a mean person? I dont think so.
I had stated repeatedly in the bad trader post on her, that I had NOTHING AGAINST HER as a Person, or personally--- my issues with her were the constant bad choices she made, the obsessive 50 emails a day, and 10 calls in an hour, the paranoid accusations if i didnt call her back in 5 minutes, the problems with her ALWAYS being behind and owing people, and the problem of badmouthing others and reporting others. This was NOT a personal thing, were I just decided--- "I think I wont be nice to her anymore" and if u ask sheri220 and she is being honest at the time, she will CONFIRM to you, THAT I TOLD HER THIS WOULD HAPPEN if she didnt stop the madness--- I tried, tried, tried reallllll hard to help her KEEP THIS FROM HAPPENING, but she refused to follow my advice and kept on doing what she does, and it ended up a mess--- i also TRIED real hard to not have to cut her off, but she kept pushing further and further until I had no other choice.

you have had no real issues with sheri220 and that is great, BUT that doesnt cancel out all the numerous complaints (some public, some I know that chose to email mods for help but not post) -- I have had good trades with some BANNED members, who sent first and Actually did right by me, BUT that doesnt undo the trouble they have caused others

and it is True, that BANNING a trader does NOT undue the damage that they might have done, HOWEVER it does protect the next guy on the board from getting the shaft or getting into a situation.

Often times, there are names on the bad trader list, that I have never heard of---- and if someone contacts me and I dont know them, I might overlook it--- That is why we BAN people like wolf11, sue maples, Lisa Mailman, etc, etc, etc --- so that they do not have full access to this site in order to use the site to secure more trades.

as for sheri220 personally-- she and i have no open issues, we are a done deal--- and that is fine--- the people she has open issues with, that is between them---- i wont list ALL OF THE PEOPLE with issues and tell her how to fix them, she knows what to do---
she knows who she owes and all

BUT some people, like Loren-- there is no way to fix those things--- how do u fix bad mouthing someone to the ENTIRE WORLD for 6 months straight? things like that have no solution, except to be left alone

I am sure if you were in Lorens shoes, or my shoes, or lilhaves shoes or anyones shoes who has been done wrong by a bad trader, not simply sheri220, but any trader--- u would feel more strongly on the issue.

so april, i still adore you, but I think u r speaking from your own personal experience with sheri220, not judging the situation objectively as a whole----

sheri220 already had asked to have her entire account and all her posts deleted, so I don't know what good banning her would do at this point. She has already stated that she is leaving. Is that the point of this entire thread? Nobody has ever asked me personally to ban sheri220. Would it have been fair to just ban her and give her no opportunity to defend herself? I thought all of this was already settled and people have moved on. Continually hammering away at it now will not solve anything.

I asked in the other thread for some help.. and NOBODY has sent me anything at this point. It might have been automatic when moderators for a short time had the power to ban people, but now that is left up to the admins. If you see somebody on the bad traders list, and they aren't banned compile a list and send it on over to me. I can't do all the leg work here.

You people want this done and that done. This is my board, I pay for it, and I operate it how I want to. If you don't like how things are run, stop posting here and leave. Tired of all the bitching about every little thing. I can take some constructive criticism and suggestions. I don't think I need to spell everything out 100% with 1000's of rules. Some people take this way too seriously.

This isn't Survivor. You can't just vote out people you don't like. Sometimes I wonder if this board is even worth it. It's by far the most volatile area on the boards.

TJ

my initial post was just to ask How the banning and bad trader list worked, BUTTTTT Somehow it spun out of control, like a lot of these posts do and ended up going off on tangents

I was not questioning your judgement or the moderators judgement at all

just wanted to know how it all worked and the whys and whens and all

and i think this thread was NOT directed at sheri220 in particular, just a discussion of what, if anything could be done to improve the situation with bad traders and reduce the # of headaches and hassles on the board --- perhaps these discussions would be better served in private emails back and forth and suggestions as opposed to a public thread, so if u chose to lock it, we might want to go that route

these were, after all, merely suggestions on how to improve this board and make it safer for traders

I think I can speak for all of us (even u joker!) when I say that all of us here, greatly appeciate you making this site available to us all, BUT there are some bad apples in this bunch, and unfortunately we get the REALLLLY Rotten ones over here on the trading post

What is it that you would like Sheri lerman to do that would make things better so these posts don't exist? That way it can be dropped once and for all. If she is "banned" that doesn't fix whatever she did anyway so why not figure out a way that she can make things right with you or whoever so that these constant bad trader posts can go away and we can get back to enjoying trading here. All of this drama is ridiculous and it's a waste of everyone's time and energy....I know we cannot all get along but what can be done to make things better? I'm sure Sheri would be willing to do something so this all can stop. She's a nice person.

yes she can be a very nice person, when your doing something for her

i started her out as a tv show junkie, its my fault

she then tried to make a living as a dvd seller, which is impossible with a rent and utility burden of about $2000 a month

she was either too lazy, or just not bright enough to put in the leg work and research to acomplish things, so she went the easy way out

deceit, theft, dirty deals, backstabbing, takeing adavntage of the good graces of many decent people

she justified it all the time, by saying, i need to make a living, i need to pay the bills

thats why people work, isnt it, she wanted the easy road, and took it

for about 6 months i was her bud, i helped her in numerous ways, and started to notice he attitude change when she gave up her--other-source of income and needed to press to feed her bills

i saw time and again what she pulled, she has this very social nature, that she must tell people everything, finaly i had enough, enough crap deals, enough of her drama, enough of her stealing from me, etc etc

i warned her, and then she blew it again, so i cut her off cold, kicked her to the curb

she begged me to take her back, she said im sorry a million times, just like a three year old, her former best friend refers to her as an emotional ******

i was relieved to be away from her

then she started the constant bad mothing, the blame for her shortcommings, telling people i did this and that, and i had nothing to do with it, the same thing she now does to other formeer decent folks who she used up

she called all the time, day and night, i ahd to spend $150 for a new phone number to stop her

she kept it up and i heard enough, i vowed to bring her down, if she didnt go away, she is obsessed with me, she looks at my web site numerous tiems a day, worries what i was selling, makeing taddes for,etc

how dare i drop her and kick her to the curb, after all she needed to make a living

eventualy all the decent folks that helped her, dropped her one by one, they all learned the hard way

no getting her banned will not help the past

i offered through a moderator--you can verify this--to not post about her in exchange for her being banned, it was a deal

then something went amiss, not on my part, so i followed trough and exposed her to the rest of the world, most people already knew her and wouldnt deal with her

she still blames me for everything that happens

sheri lerman turned in clownface to ioffer, and he got run,, so of course he does soem things to her--thats my fault

she pulls crap deals with people and its my fault

and now shes stealing the better part of 173 discs from a decent person in miami,a nd she told him, she wasnt going to honor the trade since he was in collusion with me to ruin her, this is after dude sent her cash and hundreds of discs, first, and then she says shes not ging to send her end--also my fault as well

act is she was looking for a way out since she lied about the deal and couldnt possibly do what she promissed

shes a drama queen, she needs a scapegoat to pass off her shortcommings

her time is up, time to move out the nice apartment, time to quit the disc sceen, no more free ride on this wagon,

no seeing her get banned will not make things correct, but then again ill never need to see her name where i frequent

and ill know that it eats at her everyday of her life

so if you had a couple trades with her, thats nice

it doesnt excuse all the nasty thieving she did

maybe some day some of the others will speak up and tell some dandy stories

sheri lerman is truely the queen of the scammers

period

I'm not Monty Hall, Loren.. I don't make deals.. You got your bad trader post in on her already.. either you drop the whole sheri220 talk now or you'll be the one who ends up being banned.

How about them REDWINGS ?!?!?!?

This might be a good time for us all to take a "Time Out" and let this just ferment.....

everythings been said, some people are obviously VERY opinionated on these matters, and noone wants an ugly outcome.

So maybe we can all go take a break, see whats happening on Letterman, grab a bag of Fritos and relax.