Has there been any updates on this case, or if there is any websites that talk about this case? This is a really creepy and bizarre case. How can anyone imagine that it is even possible that this man committed suicide? Who would want to die in a furnace with a temp for 1300 degrees. I believe this is truly a case of cold blooded murder.. I wonder why the only motive the could come up with for someone to want him dead was the whole Whistle Blown thing.. Even though this motive makes sense I guess.. I really wish more cloud have been put into finding the so called killer or killers.. One thing that struck odd to me is this so called witness and why they did not want appear on camera when the friend the guy he used to car pool with was all on camera with his suspicions and did not seem to fear retaliation.. what would have been there to fear? Especially if the plant was closed I would see what an immediate danger would be too then.. and how they just happened upon David Bocks twice in one tight 15 mins before the temp gauge rose up in Plant 6.. I believe that this so called witness maybe new more than he was willingly to share ..

I dunno I agree its a great case and one of the better ones post 1992 but it is pretty open and shut in my eyes. Dave Bocks was murdered by his co-workers because he was going to blow the whistle on something going on at the plant.

Even prior to Bocks' death there was a scandal brewing and the people responsible for all the troubles thought that by silencing Bocks their troubles would go away which wasn't the case as the plant itself did get shut down in the end amid the same scandal.

That being said what is tragic about this case is that people just are not opening their mouths about what happened to Bocks because in my eyes it could not have been a suicide and was likely not an accident either. The thing is unless someone blows the whistle on what happened the night Bocks died nobody will ever know the exact details surrounding his death.

The thing is I also suspect that only a small handfull of people know exactly what happened to Bocks and they are the folks that murdered him and they sure as hell ain't gonna talk so it's going to be one of those cases that we never know what the hell happened.

Yeah, I tend to think the same thing. The case of Dave Bocks is so creepy to me. I can only hope that he was dead before they threw him into the furnace. *shudder*

We'll probably never find out what happened.

Well you are right DarkDante about how killing Dave did not really solve their problems with the plant and five years after his death NLO was evetually shut down anyway. But no one was ever really indicted or charged with either pollution or murder, so while they did lose the factory they remain free to begin again. They killed him in a way that can't even be viewed as a murder(not technically at least, only in suspicion). Any evidence that could have been on the body(such as prints, hair fibers, or assault wounds) was vaporized. 22 years have come and gone since that night, and the abandoned factory, at least from what I recall on a previous discussion here, has been demolished to make way for an open space preserve, but we are no close to an answer now then we were back in 1984. Perhaps this, like the true cause of Cindy James' death, will remain an unsolved mystery.

Mr. Clairvoyant. I don't really know much about websites or books that speak of this case. Try a google sreach or another search. I know that www.fernald.gov talks about the project of converting the plant site into the open air garden, if this helps.

thanks for the response

Yeah, I don't think this will ever get solved because the remains can't be examined (or at least what was left of him) for many many years because they are too toxic. I think it was murder though because of the three wire loops found in the furnace, two loops for Dave's hands and one for whatever sort of crane lowered him into the furnace. Someone must have incapacitated him in some way and bound him with that wire and dunked him in.

I think that what they did to him was just cruel. Even if he was unconscious when they put him in the furnace, it's like that man they interviewed said: "I can't imagine a more horrible death than that!"

I think he took his own life..like he had tried some years before.
-He was seen walking ALONE to the plant he was found dead.
-The story of him in a car with a person with the window closed is not believable. Typical unconfirmed UM witness.
-The guy that think he saw Dave Bocks key's is wrong with the time. And why will he notice such a thing ?
-Why was Dave Bocks the only one that knew about something secret ? He did'nt have a more important job than many of the other workers. The whole whistle blower theory does not hold water.
-Why would police try to cover up a murder on a plant they had nothing to do with ?
-And who was the boss "in the shadow" ? I'm sure police did an interrogation of all the people on the top.
-I'm pretty sure a furnace with a temp for 1300 degrees is a pretty fast and painless death. It's much more painfull to bleed to death of an gunshot wound.

To be continued .....

I don't think the police covered up, they just didn't have enough evidence left to piece together who could have done it and didn't have any solid leads as to who could have killed him. This was pretty much a perfect crime if it was murder, which it seems likely if Dave was putting together a case against his superiors.
When was the plant eventually closed and do you think he could have known it was closing and he'd be out a job? And I wonder why it was closed eventually? Could it have been closed because of this case or because business or financial restraints dictated that it be closed?

The plant closed in 1989. National Lead of Ohio ran the plant up until about 1985-86 (that's what NLO stands for, by the way.) Then the plant was sold to a private company. It closed down three years later. I haven't been able to get any information on why they closed.

I think he took his own life..like he had tried some years before.
-He was seen walking ALONE to the plant he was found dead.
-The story of him in a car with a person with the window closed is not believable. Typical unconfirmed UM witness.
-The guy that think he saw Dave Bocks key's is wrong with the time. And why will he notice such a thing ?
-Why was Dave Bocks the only one that knew about something secret ? He did'nt have a more important job than many of the other workers. The whole whistle blower theory does not hold water.
-Why would police try to cover up a murder on a plant they had nothing to do with ?
-And who was the boss "in the shadow" ? I'm sure police did an interrogation of all the people on the top.
-I'm pretty sure a furnace with a temp for 1300 degrees is a pretty fast and painless death. It's much more painfull to bleed to death of an gunshot wound.

To be continued .....


Huh...

Your points are well taken, but I have no doubt that he was murdered. Just a difference of opinion, but I think the evidence points to foul play.

As for your last point... Yikes! You better hope it is fast and painless. ;) But I think that has to be one of the most odd ways for someone to kill themselves. Not that it isn't possible, but I just don't see the evidence pointing to suicide, especially in that manner.

I agree as well If he wanted to kill himself why even get up and come to work? He worked third shifts so you wake up and get ready for work only to go in and jump into a furnance?? there were many other painless ways he could have killed himself. and what about the wire they found looped together which leaves you to think he may have been tied up and thrown into the inferno. Why bother picking up your co worker to drop off to work? Why pay all your bills and by food for the week?? It was murder, the whole whistle blown thing to me seems misguided after all what information that Dave could have known that no one else at the plant knew and was not in danger??? Perhaps it could have been an affair gone bad.. maybe he was having a affair with one of his co workers wives and the co worker found out and killed him. Just think about it for a second who ever threw him into that furnance had to truly be mad or hate him to want him dead in such a manner.. overkill!!!

MRC.

I agree as well If he wanted to kill himself why even get up and come to work? He worked third shifts so you wake up and get ready for work only to go in and jump into a furnance??Why bother picking up your co worker to drop off to work? Why pay all your bills and by food for the week??
Yes..I believe most suicides are spontaneous. It could also have been planned. If it was planned he would not want to wake any suspicion cause then his planned would not work.

there were many other painless ways he could have killed himself. and what about the wire they found looped together which leaves you to think he may have been tied up and thrown into the inferno.
Yes there are many other ways to commit suicide Dave Bocks wanted it this way. Why? Thats a question only Dave Bocks can answer. Maybe Dave Bocks (wanted)thought he would never be found. As to the wire it could have been there long before Dave Bocks was found. I guess they found many other thing in that furnance as well.


It was murder, the whole whistle blown thing to me seems misguided after all what information that Dave could have known that no one else at the plant knew and was not in danger??? Perhaps it could have been an affair gone bad.. maybe he was having a affair with one of his co workers wives and the co worker found out and killed him. Just think about it for a second who ever threw him into that furnance had to truly be mad or hate him to want him dead in such a manner.. overkill!!!

MRC.
No it was not murder all things point to suicide. Why are "everybody" looking away from his previous depression and attemt to commit suicide. Seems to me people want a unsolved mystery more than a case to be solved. And the affair theory seems unlikely. If he had somebody would have known. By the way Dave Bocks did not look like a guy with many women.

I'd be interested in knowing whether or not his first suicide was a suicidal gesture or a genuine attempt and if he left a note the first time.

From what I could tell from the segment, NLO was making uranium for high grade weaponized use, but told their employees that it was low level and not to talk about stuff they had seen there. But what I'm wondering about is how could all the employees not know about what they were doing there at NLO (especially the ones monitoring the tanks and the gauges) and what, if anything would have been worthy of someone blowing the whistle on them? Manufacturing weapons grade uranium isn't against the law and they needed to keep the operation hush hush for national security reasons, of course. The military-industrial complex certainly knows how to do this too. So what could Dave Bocks have known about any illegal stuff that would have gotten him killed? I'm scratching my head trying to think of a motive. Maybe some higher up(s) wanted to sell some uranium on the black market? Did Dave want to expose that they were manufacturing high weapons grade uranium? That could be the reason that he was murdered, but then again the plant shut down and I'm thinking that no one got in trouble for corruption or any sort of environmental crimes of any sort.

I don't know, maybe the suicide theory seems most plausible because the motive for someone in the plant to have killed him is looking pretty shaky now the more I think about it.

Why kill him at the plant? it doesn't make sense. Of course someone is going to come to the conclusion that it was Dave Bocks all they have to do is a head count of employees. Surely they could have dumped the body at another location or at least hid it at the plant until the coast was clear.

Why kill him at the plant? it doesn't make sense. Of course someone is going to come to the conclusion that it was Dave Bocks all they have to do is a head count of employees.

I have a feeling that this was not a premeditated murder. I think it was a last minuted decision to dump Bochs in the furnace.

More than likely that he was killed by someone (accidentally or otherwise) over the possibility that Bocks might go public with issues relating to the plant. There was already some grumblings in the outside community about what was going on. The evidence seems more clear to this likely cause.

The Wikipedia entry for the facility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernald_Feed_Materials_Production_Center

why would he pay off all his bills and buy his food for the week if he was going to kill himself?

why would he pay off all his bills and buy his food for the week if he was going to kill himself?

Didn;t he live with his family? I imagine that he would want to make sure they were fed and didn;t have to deal with any lingering bills.

no i don't believe he did - he was divorced for one


second why would he work such crappy hours?

wow i think my computer just messed up - wwhat the heck

can someone delete all those duplicate posts please

no i don't believe he did - he was divorced for one

Didn;t he live with his daughter?

This is one of the true UM cases that will remain just that for all time. there is so much that points to both sides. Past depression history, he said she said, possible shady company practice, etc. There is evidence to support both sides of the arguement. He may have took his own life without showing any suicidle trends. Or he may have been ready to turn on one of his superiors(or coworkers) which could have led to his murder. My guess is that if that were the case it would have had to of been a one person isolated incident. What I will say is if that were the case they pulled off the perfect crime. and if he committed suicide he did such without showing any signs at the time which is not common either. Unless some new information comes to light this will always go down unsolved. Could it have been a accident?

Could it have been a accident?

I believe the evidence points to him being lowered into the furnace.

This is one of the true UM cases that will remain just that for all time. there is so much that points to both sides. Past depression history, he said she said, possible shady company practice, etc. There is evidence to support both sides of the arguement. He may have took his own life without showing any suicidle trends. Or he may have been ready to turn on one of his superiors(or coworkers) which could have led to his murder. My guess is that if that were the case it would have had to of been a one person isolated incident. What I will say is if that were the case they pulled off the perfect crime. and if he committed suicide he did such without showing any signs at the time which is not common either. Unless some new information comes to light this will always go down unsolved. Could it have been a accident?

I tend to agree. Suicide is certainly a possability, but it begs a few questions too - prime amongst those would be behavior seemingly inconsistant with someone who's going to kill themselves (planning for the future, paying bills, getting groceries, etc.) and the particularly gruesome and painful manner of the suicide - if he wanted to kill himself, I'd imagine there are much less painful ways of doing it.

As for the murder theory, it seems entirely speculation that Bocks knew anything that would get him killed. Much of this theory depends on the unindentified witness, who's the only reported person to see Bocks arguing with his supervisor or going to the wrong building (although it wasn't where he was killed. The looped wire certainly seems suspecious.

Since LE didn't participate, it's hard to know what they did or did not investigate:

did they interview the mystery witness? (if he only came forward to UM, that renders him suspect in my book)

did they interview the supervisor?

does the timeline make sense? That is, the witness saw Bocks alive, walking to Plant 4, at 5am. His body was dumped into the furnace at Plant 6 at 5:15am. Is this enough time to get from place to place? I don't know how big the plant is or what security there was, but 15 minutes isn't alot of time.

can you tell from the temperate drop if Bocks fell/was pushed in or was slowing lowered in? Would it be possible for Bocks to lower himself in?

On a less serious note, "investigative reporter" D.C. Cole has to be one of the more unique looking individuals appearing on UM... but a quick web search of Mr. Cole shows he is big on nutjob-fringe theories, including "theories" that the CIA/government affiliated satanist cults are going around murdering, torturing and abusing good christian children in the midwest. It might be guilt by association, but it makes me highly skeptical of anything he says and any cause he's affiliated with, including the idea Bocks was murdered.

What I'd like to know is if he had a good insurance policy and if so, did the family collect on it? He could have committed suicide and tried to make it look like an accident or murder. I also wonder what the death certificate said was the manner of death.

Hmm, that is a possibility of suicide or a possibility of murder. I tend to lean towards murder. It appeared to me from the way that furnace was set up, you could not even really jump into it or even really accidently fall into it. That you would have to be lowered into it. But UM left a lot out so I would be uncomfortable saying that is for sure one thing or the other. However I lean towards murder.

That said, people, if they want an insurance policy to pay out but want to have it both ways sometimes go to unusual lengths to commit suicide. I know that just the other day it was revealed a census worker in Kentucky had killed himself and in the months before his death had taken out over 600 grand worth of insurance on his life and wanted it to pay out to his son. But it would not pay in the event of a suicide. So he committed suicide but tried to make it look like a murder. He almost pulled it off. Very bizarre.

My guess is the cause of death was listed either as undetermined or as suicide. I still lean towards the fact he was murdered there. Yes he had been depressed over his divorce and had tried to kill himself, but that was 5 years before he died.

I guess I find it odd that Bocks would just happen to decide to kill himself after having a very lengthy and hated discussion with a supervisor earlier that night? It is just odd, something about it just stinks. It seems he was lured to his death in one of the plants and then lowered into the furnace. You had to open the tops of the furnace. In the furnace Bocks was in, I wonder if the furnace was found closed? If Bocks jumped in or fell in himself should the top of the furnace have been open not closed?

I guess I find it odd that Bocks would just happen to decide to kill himself after having a very lengthy and hated discussion with a supervisor earlier that night? It is just odd, something about it just stinks. It seems he was lured to his death in one of the plants and then lowered into the furnace. You had to open the tops of the furnace. In the furnace Bocks was in, I wonder if the furnace was found closed? If Bocks jumped in or fell in himself should the top of the furnace have been open not closed?

Of course, the only witness to the argument and of Bocks' mis-placement is of unknown veracity, so the whole story hinges on that. You have to wonder how much LE investigated this one.

He would have had to be pretty damn depressed to throw himself in a tube of nuclear slug.:confused:

I dont by it.

You have to wonder how much LE investigated this one.

1. Since it was ruled a suicide. I'm not sure there would have been much investigation.

2. You have to wonder which type of LE investigated this case. The facility had to have a pretty decent security force that could handle investigations, themselves. Wasn't this a federal facility? Who had jurisdiction to investigate?

Well, the local police it appears investigated it. This was in Hamilton County, Ohio, so the Hamilton County Sheriff's Department investigated this. It appears there was little to no fed involvement in the investigation. Something about this whole case just stinks. It just seems unusual to me that the local Sheriff's Department would be investigating this and not the FBI since this was a federal facility. The FBI usually cannot wait to get their hands into an investigation but yet on this case they did not touch it with a ten foot pole. Why?

It has to be murder The plant had several shifts i don't believe nobody else was working in that particular plant when he supposedly was there.

Unless something else was going on that distracted them.

I mean nobody has asked why was he supposedly in there by himself anyway?

I would think there would be countless other employees

The FBI usually cannot wait to get their hands into an investigation but yet on this case they did not touch it with a ten foot pole. Why?

The FBI is not as eager as you think to get involved in low priority cases.(cases not involving national security risks).
Remember for the FBI to be involved in a case, they have to know about the case. Usually someone calls them requesting their prescence. Even if the FBI heard about the case via a scanner or news reports, they would have been told it was a suicide.

That being said, you would think the fear of espionage or sabotage would prompt the FBI to get involved.What if David Boch's was a spy or part of some terrorist group trying to set of a nuclear reaction or steal material?:confused:

Most likely the Feds were not involved because someone told them the deal with this case.

I think he took his own life..like he had tried some years before.
-He was seen walking ALONE to the plant he was found dead.
-The story of him in a car with a person with the window closed is not believable. Typical unconfirmed UM witness.
-The guy that think he saw Dave Bocks key's is wrong with the time. And why will he notice such a thing ?
-Why was Dave Bocks the only one that knew about something secret ? He did'nt have a more important job than many of the other workers. The whole whistle blower theory does not hold water.
-Why would police try to cover up a murder on a plant they had nothing to do with ?
-And who was the boss "in the shadow" ? I'm sure police did an interrogation of all the people on the top.
-I'm pretty sure a furnace with a temp for 1300 degrees is a pretty fast and painless death. It's much more painfull to bleed to death of an gunshot wound.

To be continued .....

I agree, especially with the part about him having attempted suicide in the past. According to the segment he had a history of mental illness. I also agree that he wasn't that important in the grand scheme of things relating to the plant. UM has a tendency to play up the conspiracy angles even when it should be obvious that such low-level people typically are not targeted. And even if in this case he was important enough to be killed, this was a big plant -- someone, somewhere would have talked. (You ever worked in such a place? I have and, trust me, people talk). It's much like the Tommy Burket case in the sense that neither of these guys were important enough to have "powerful" people worry about.

However, I don't care how depressed you are, it is hard for me to imagine someone dunking themselves in a literal lake of fire. There are much easier ways to go. Most people just don't commit suicide that way. If Bocks would have been found shot, hung, or overdosed, I would fully agree with suicide. It's just hard to believe he would dunk himself in 1300 degrees of hell. Furthermore, a furnace death is the perfect way for a murderer to cover up the crime.

If he was murdered, I think it was a personal thing between him and another guy (or perhaps several guys). I seriously doubt that a pipe-fitter would have access to top secret plant information. I doubt Bocks knew anything that all the other workers didn't know, and like I said, someone else besides Bocks would have talked about the illegal goings on at the plant.

However, I don't care how depressed you are, it is hard for me to imagine someone dunking themselves in a literal lake of fire. There are much easier ways to go. Most people just don't commit suicide that way. If Bocks would have been found shot, hung, or overdosed, I would fully agree with suicide. It's just hard to believe he would dunk himself in 1300 degrees of hell. Furthermore, a furnace death is the perfect way for a murderer to cover up the crime.

1.It should be pointed out that we don't know how Dave Bochs actually died. The furnace very conveniently hides the manner of death. How convenient that Dave Boch's chooses a manner of suicide that prevents any autopsy or any evidence on his body.

2.Also, it was stated before that he was a whistleblower. Those type of people usually have several enemies who wish to see them dead. There was as much motive for him to be killed as there was for him to commit suicide.

3. Why have a cover up if there's nothing to cover up? If he committed suicide, there would be no details to hide.

The only reason I could see for Dave Bochs to lower himself into a furnace is for insurance reasons or for his family to intitute a lawsuit.

This was murder. Plain and simple. First of all, I tend to not even listen to an "anonymous witness". Chances are, they are anonymous because someone may recognize them and know that they know nothing about the case. Secondly, he may have had suicidal tendencies in the past but people can change. David Bocks may have changed. It seems to me that if your going to kill yourself, you can do it a lot easier than lowering yourself into lava or whatever it was. I agree with Mastermind though, if he did commit suicide, he did it so that his family could get the life insurance money. It just seems too unrealistic that he would buy groceries for the week, pay his bills and continue to work everyday if he planned on committing suicide. This case will forever be an Unsolved Mystery. Too much time has passed and not enough evidence left behind.

Hmm, yes I am inclined to agree Dave Bocks was murdered. The question to me is why was he murdered? Clearly he knew something about someone or something and he was murdered to shut him up. I mean, while it was said that Bocks had 'psychological problems' it sounded like it was more due to depression and that he was depressed because of his divorce. He tried to take his own life but I do not think he was truly serious about it because had he been he would have got it carried out, trust me. Plus he lived for 5 years after his divorce, a long time for someone supposedly on the verge of suicide day in and day out.

No, I think the whole mental illness thing was used as a crutch by the cops. I mean there appears to be no question Dave Bocks suffered from depression and I am not disputing that. However I will say, I mean, to throw yourself in a tank like that, I mean I do not care how depressed you are, I just do not see someone doing that. It is not the best argument, but if Dave Bocks was going to kill himself, I think he would have done it in another way. Plus Bocks had paid all his bills for the month and bought groceries for the week, why pay bills and buy groceries when you know you will not be there? Makes no sense. What would he have to lose by not paying his bills if he knew he was not going to be around?

I mean to me, from the first time I saw this case, something about it just stunk. Not just the way Bocks died. But I mean, the stainless steel wire in three oddly connecting circles? It is almost like he was hogtied with the wire. I mean, to hog time yourself is pretty amazing but then on top of that to be able to somehow get yourself up a flight of stairs and throw yourself in the furnace? It just does not add up. It tells me someone lowered his body in the furnace. I am presuming he was knocked unconscious and then he was hogtied and then was lowered into the furnace by one or more individuals.

Another thing I found disturbing was the tunnel vision on the part of the Hamilton County Sheriff's Department. Oh, well we had the homicide in the back of our minds? What the heck is that? Pretty much any cop will tell you, when they go to a scene of a death, homicide is what they think of first and foremost until it is proven otherwise. So it just seems weird that they would label this a suicide without any evidence of that other than innuendo. The good old federal government trying to cover their rear ends again I guess. Not wanting to get sued by Bocks family for wrongful death among other things.

Well considering the temp of the furnace went back up to it's normal shortly after means that this cannot possibly be a suicide or at least without the help of someone.

Lets also not forget that his friend that he carpooled with to work claims that ont he night of his disappearance, when he was leaving work, he saw Dave Bock's keys in his toolbox. Also, the following morning he claims to have seen the keys in the same place in the toolbox, yet the co-workers who cleaned out the furnace found the keys int he furnace, almost unharmed. Very very strange that someone would move his keys from his toolbox to the furnace if he killed himself. I dont think his friend has any reason to lie about seeing his keys there. This case will truly be an Unsolved Mystery forever, unless someone decides to admit guilt, which I highly doubt will happen.

One question I have is that it was mentioned that between 3 and 4am, the temperature in that particular furnace had risen considerably. Well, was someone assigned to be watching these grids? If so, why didn't anyone go down and check it out? Has that ever been addressed?

One question I have is that it was mentioned that between 3 and 4am, the temperature in that particular furnace had risen considerably. Well, was someone assigned to be watching these grids? If so, why didn't anyone go down and check it out? Has that ever been addressed?

If I remember right, it wasn't actually being monitored by anyone. They have tools that monitor it, and they probably checked them the next morning. As they showed it in the episode, there was a little seismograph looking gizmo that records the temperatures.

The guy that think he saw Dave Bocks key's is wrong with the time. And why will he notice such a thing ?


That guy carpooled with Bocks every night and had been looking for him earlier in the day before they went home. He happened to look in his tool chest and notice the keys still there and figured that Bocks was still working so he left and figured he would hook up with him that night. Its hard to be wrong about the time when the time you saw the keys was the time your shift was ending. Also, when he came back to work that night, his keys were still there, but once the furnace was cleaned out, the keys were found inside the furnace. This story proves to me that he was murdered. If it was a suicide, why would some co-worker throw his keys in the furnace? Plus the fact that the keys were found int he furnace basically unharmed also tells you they were thrown in their after Bocks was killed because had they have been on his person, they would have deteriorated more in the furnace.

I really feel bad for Dave Bocks. It seemed like he was getting over his depression and getting his life back on track when this happened.

Okay, here's the part that I can't wrap my brain around, and makes me sure this wasn't a suicide. However, I understand that I'm assuming some things here, but they make sense. Those loops of metal wire found in the tank weren't supposed to be there. It's been theorized that these held his feet. I can see no other purpose for them being in the tank...they either bound Dave's hands or his feet. No one needs to tie his or herself up before jumping into a reactor. From the UM segment, the mechanical arm was controlled by a remote. Someone had to be controlling that remote from outside the tank. It just seems ridiculous that Dave would tie his own feet or hands to the crane and lower himself in, throwing the remote out of the tank at the last minute.

Okay, here's the part that I can't wrap my brain around, and makes me sure this wasn't a suicide. However, I understand that I'm assuming some things here, but they make sense. Those loops of metal wire found in the tank weren't supposed to be there. It's been theorized that these held his feet. I can see no other purpose for them being in the tank...they either bound Dave's hands or his feet. No one needs to tie his or herself up before jumping into a reactor. From the UM segment, the mechanical arm was controlled by a remote. Someone had to be controlling that remote from outside the tank. It just seems ridiculous that Dave would tie his own feet or hands to the crane and lower himself in, throwing the remote out of the tank at the last minute.

Your right, it really doesn't make sense. It seems that either the LE agency who investigated this was either just plain lazy and didn't want to investigate a possible murder or someone high up in LE knew the person(s) who killed Dave Bocks and ruled it a suicide.

Why kill him at the plant? it doesn't make sense. Of course someone is going to come to the conclusion that it was Dave Bocks all they have to do is a head count of employees. Surely they could have dumped the body at another location or at least hid it at the plant until the coast was clear.

Dave Bocks: Interesting story. They know Dave was dumped into the furnace by some other person becuase the lid was replaced on the furnace. Look up how hot 1300 degrees C really is. When Davids body hit the environment of the furnace it just exploded there being so much water in humans. This is born out by a depressed heat spike on the 12 hour disc recorder for the furnace thermocouples. It is claimed by some that worked there that the lid on the furnace takes multiple people and the data on the recorders show it was done fairly rapidly, like multiple people were involved.
It is a good question what did David know that could get him killed? You need to know that he was tampering with someones rice bowl and people go a lot crazy especially in the DOE world when tyou do that oer threaten to do that. Look at all of the discrimination all of the other whistle blowers went through at the hands of fellow workers at other sites. One of the things they did at fernauld was to develop fuel for 100N at Hanford Wa. To do that they took naturally occuring uranium which is .7% u235 and added enriched uranium that got the 235 content up to 1.25% not a big jump. There is some u235 out of that process which was unaccounted for. Did David know where that went? Probably. Did he know how our friends got access to enriched uranium probably. We gave the russians quite a lot of it during war 2 through lend lease why not give it to the israllies and other people.
Dave did work on the load out crew. He also worked in plant 2 where his few bones were stored in a wooden box for many years. I believe they are up at the Mound Plant now in storage as fernald is closed down.
My thoughts were that david got into an arguement with a couple of his coworkers and fell down and knocked himself out or was knocked out and died the people who he fought with dumped his body in the furnace to get rid of all of the evidence. He was dead when he went in. Like I said there was a t second power spike on the thermocouples and he was up the chimney. Wire handcuffs: at that temprature and with the draft on that furnace I doubt any evidence like that would exist they just found a teacup worth of bone. It would be interesting to give the bones some genetic examination to determine if it really was David. There is some question if the remains they found might not be chicken bones from someones lunch.

Dave Bocks: Interesting story. They know Dave was dumped into the furnace by some other person becuase the lid was replaced on the furnace. Look up how hot 1300 degrees C really is. When Davids body hit the environment of the furnace it just exploded there being so much water in humans. This is born out by a depressed heat spike on the 12 hour disc recorder for the furnace thermocouples. It is claimed by some that worked there that the lid on the furnace takes multiple people and the data on the recorders show it was done fairly rapidly, like multiple people were involved.
It is a good question what did David know that could get him killed? You need to know that he was tampering with someones rice bowl and people go a lot crazy especially in the DOE world when tyou do that oer threaten to do that. Look at all of the discrimination all of the other whistle blowers went through at the hands of fellow workers at other sites. One of the things they did at fernauld was to develop fuel for 100N at Hanford Wa. To do that they took naturally occuring uranium which is .7% u235 and added enriched uranium that got the 235 content up to 1.25% not a big jump. There is some u235 out of that process which was unaccounted for. Did David know where that went? Probably. Did he know how our friends got access to enriched uranium probably. We gave the russians quite a lot of it during war 2 through lend lease why not give it to the israllies and other people.
Dave did work on the load out crew. He also worked in plant 2 where his few bones were stored in a wooden box for many years. I believe they are up at the Mound Plant now in storage as fernald is closed down.
My thoughts were that david got into an arguement with a couple of his coworkers and fell down and knocked himself out or was knocked out and died the people who he fought with dumped his body in the furnace to get rid of all of the evidence. He was dead when he went in. Like I said there was a t second power spike on the thermocouples and he was up the chimney. Wire handcuffs: at that temprature and with the draft on that furnace I doubt any evidence like that would exist they just found a teacup worth of bone. It would be interesting to give the bones some genetic examination to determine if it really was David. There is some question if the remains they found might not be chicken bones from someones lunch.

I'm confused by the rice bowl comment. Are you being serious or joking in regards to that? Also, where was it ever mentioned that the bones could have been chicken bones from someones lunch? Did you know Dave Bocks or work at NLO?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdb4884
Why kill him at the plant? it doesn't make sense. Of course someone is going to come to the conclusion that it was Dave Bocks all they have to do is a head count of employees. Surely they could have dumped the body at another location or at least hid it at the plant until the coast was clear.


Dave Bocks: Interesting story. They know Dave was dumped into the furnace by some other person becuase the lid was replaced on the furnace. Look up how hot 1300 degrees C really is. When Davids body hit the environment of the furnace it just exploded there being so much water in humans. This is born out by a depressed heat spike on the 12 hour disc recorder for the furnace thermocouples. It is claimed by some that worked there that the lid on the furnace takes multiple people and the data on the recorders show it was done fairly rapidly, like multiple people were involved.
It is a good question what did David know that could get him killed? You need to know that he was tampering with someones rice bowl and people go a lot crazy especially in the DOE world when tyou do that oer threaten to do that. Look at all of the discrimination all of the other whistle blowers went through at the hands of fellow workers at other sites. One of the things they did at fernauld was to develop fuel for 100N at Hanford Wa. To do that they took naturally occuring uranium which is .7% u235 and added enriched uranium that got the 235 content up to 1.25% not a big jump. There is some u235 out of that process which was unaccounted for. Did David know where that went? Probably. Did he know how our friends got access to enriched uranium probably. We gave the russians quite a lot of it during war 2 through lend lease why not give it to the israllies and other people.
Dave did work on the load out crew. He also worked in plant 2 where his few bones were stored in a wooden box for many years. I believe they are up at the Mound Plant now in storage as fernald is closed down.
My thoughts were that david got into an arguement with a couple of his coworkers and fell down and knocked himself out or was knocked out and died the people who he fought with dumped his body in the furnace to get rid of all of the evidence. He was dead when he went in. Like I said there was a t second power spike on the thermocouples and he was up the chimney. Wire handcuffs: at that temprature and with the draft on that furnace I doubt any evidence like that would exist they just found a teacup worth of bone. It would be interesting to give the bones some genetic examination to determine if it really was David. There is some question if the remains they found might not be chicken bones from someones lunch.


:crazy:

Chicken bones from someone's lunch? Looks like someone from NLO or law enforcement got squirrely. What a joke. Chicken bones, yes, I have known MANY people that when they want to eat a chicken sandwich decide to stand next to a furnace while eating it.

Chicken bones from someone's lunch? Looks like someone from NLO or law enforcement got squirrely. What a joke. Chicken bones, yes, I have known MANY people that when they want to eat a chicken sandwich decide to stand next to a furnace while eating it.

Sounds like something Homer Simpson would do.:lol:

I thought I would bump this to see if anyone else would like to discuss it.

I definitely think that Dave was dumped in the furnace by multiple persons. I think he went into work and his boss told him to go into a different part of the plant to check something. A couple of guys who didn't like him knocked him over the head with a wrench or something and dumped him in the furnace. I pray that he was already dead when they did this, because that is a horrible way to go, I personally can't think of many that are worse. I don't think one person could have gotten him in there alone, there had to be at least 2 people. One to tie him up and one to lower him in. Just lifting his body off the ground would have taken at least 2 people, because dead weight like that is heavy! He definitely knew something that he shouldn't have and wasn't willing to keep quiet about it and was done in for it, SAD.

This story creeps me out. I cannot fathom 1300 degrees. SOMEONE must know SOMETHING about this.

I have two questions remaining about this case.

1. If he killed himself, why did he work his full and entire shift before doing so? It doesn't make sense to do all that labor only to off yourself at the end.

2. What the heck did D.C. Cole have to do with any of this? I understand he is an investigative reporter, but does he just go around looking for conspiracies to stir up? Does he have any ties to NLO or Dave Bocks?

1. If he killed himself, why did he work his full and entire shift before doing so? It doesn't make sense to do all that labor only to off yourself at the end.

Was there anybody with him during the shifts?

2. What the heck did D.C. Cole have to do with any of this? I understand he is an investigative reporter, but does he just go around looking for conspiracies to stir up? Does he have any ties to NLO or Dave Bocks?

I had the impression that DC Cole (one of the best accents on UM:p )
was an original investigative reporter on the NLO scandal.

Was there anybody with him during the shifts?



I had the impression that DC Cole (one of the best accents on UM:p )
was an original investigative reporter on the NLO scandal.

and one of the worst jumpers seen in history, a turtle neck.

Well he actually did not work his full shift. He worked the majority of it but not all of it. Haha Mastermind, I was thinking of D.C. Cole and yeah I liked his accent too.

and one of the worst jumpers seen in history, a turtle neck.

How about those teeth also? If I were a kid, I'd buy a cheap turtleneck and some fake teeth and go as D.C. Cole for Halloween.

How about those teeth also? If I were a kid, I'd buy a cheap turtleneck and some fake teeth and go as D.C. Cole for Halloween.

I think you might get people in the neighbourhood giving you money and pointing you in the direction of a homeless shelter. :lol:

I think you might get people in the neighbourhood giving you money and pointing you in the direction of a homeless shelter. :lol:

Good point, but I would get money out of it.

Just rewatched the segment. Like many UM segments, there are a few things that we need to know that would be critical in coming up with different theories about his death.
The most important for me is: Was the supposed supervisor sighting in the truck confirmed? And if it was confirmed, what did the conversation entail?
Also, was the furnace open without a top, or would it have required several people to move it out of the way in order to create an opening?

If the furnace top was very heavy and required several people to move it, there is no way he committed suicide, period. But if it was already open, or easily accessible, suicide is still a possibility.

If the supervisor sighting with Dave was confirmed, the contents of the conversation are critical. If the conversation was that Dave was being laid off, fired, or told that he was in trouble due to work related problems, it could have led to an impulsive suicide. On the other hand, if the conversation was ho hum, or it was a confrontation about what Dave might know, it might have been murder.

IMO, suicide cannot be ruled out for several reasons:
1) He had a history of mental problems, as Stack mentioned
2) He had tried to kill himself before, as Stack mentioned
3) The quick and sharp spike in temperature cooling indicates, to me, that someone fell into the thing very quickly, as opposed to being slowly lowered in (undermining the wire cuffs murder idea).
4) Remember the guy (my avatar) who faked his suicide by having a crane roll over his body, in hopes of getting his family life insurance policies? I feel that might have been the thinking behind this suicide (if it was as such).
5) As horrible as it comes off, I do feel that this option of suicide is a possibility, because Dave may have thought (correctly, who knows), that the death would be immediate and painless at such a high degree of heat.
6) If it was suicide, I do feel it was an impulsive decision, perhaps related to the conversation he had with the supervisor. Therefore, the fact that he bought groceries, paid his bills, etc, would not be relevant.

Obviously it's really anyone's guess, but this case is really intriguing. Just my thoughts :)

I don't know Matt. He (Stack) did not say 'mental' problems he said psychological problems. That to me has a very different meaning than saying 'mental' problems. I took this to mean that Bocks had depression. I cannot prove that, that is just an opinion. However I will say, while I have heard of people with depression committing suicide (which is not unusual) I will say, throwing oneself into a furnace, I mean, wow. It is like trying to drown oneself, I just do not think a person would kill themselves that way. You are right in that it cannot be 100 percent ruled out. However I am 99 percent sure Bocks did not kill himself.

Honestly, I just think suicide, in my personal opinion is basically almost completely out of the question. I mean to me, it is not so much in debate that Dave Bocks could have committed suicide as it is did he commit suicide? I think the answer to the latter is no. I just think that if Dave Bocks was going to commit suicide, as bad as this defense is, he would have committed suicide in a different way. I mean he had allegedly tried to kill himself ONCE, not multiple times. Even so, I took this to mean and again I could be mistaken but he probably tried to O/D on pills or cut himself or something like that. Very different from throwing yourself into a several thousand degree furnace.

Also, the way those furnaces were, you could not just fall in innocently. You would have to position yourself in a certain way to even fall in there. Also and again this is the biggest one that points away from what I consider to be a smokescreen suicide theory. That is, okay, even if one were to believe Dave Bocks did kill himself by throwing himself in that furnace than how did the three interconnecting loops from the wire get in there? Is that honestly supposed to be coincidence that, that was somehow in there? Come on.

The fact of the matter is, Dave Bocks body was hogtied in essence by the three interconnecting circles. I mean it would be hard enough, almost impossible to hogtie oneself with anything period let alone with stainless steel wire. I mean to me, it is just obvious that he was murdered.

Also lets remember that he did not kill himself right after the discussion with the supervisor. The discussion was in an SUV on a hot, humid night with the windows rolled up. No one knows what was said in that SUV. The discussion appeared serious but no one knows what was said. In any event, Bocks was alive for over an hour after that discussion. It was not like Bocks so devastated for reasons unknown decided 'gee, nothing else better to do, better throw myself into a furnace'. I mean all I will say is, the guy would have to be on the 5 yard line already to even remotely consider killing himself that way. I mean he said he was putting his tools away by the last employee that saw him, which would be consistent with Bocks beginning to shut it down for the night. Yes it was two and a half hours before his shift ended but many lock out/tag out procedures were required at a plant like that so it was not unusual to begin to shut it down two, two and a half hours before the shift was over.

I mean of course suicide is a possibility but I do feel looking at the circumstances that it was/is very remote. I feel this was a government coverup, and that local law enforcement participated in it. I mean, they never at least to me, seemed to really consider that Bocks was murdered. Especially when they found out that he had suffered from depression and had tried to previously take his own life to them that was a done deal.

Also lets remember that he did not kill himself right after the discussion with the supervisor. The discussion was in an SUV on a hot, humid night with the windows rolled up. No one knows what was said in that SUV. The discussion appeared serious but no one knows what was said. In any event, Bocks was alive for over an hour after that discussion. It was not like Bocks so devastated for reasons unknown decided 'gee, nothing else better to do, better throw myself into a furnace'.

I wonder if maybe this person Dave Bocks was talking to in the car was confronting him about "blowing the whistle" and maybe Dave stood firm on what he believed was wrong. Then after the conversation, that supervisor told the rest of his cohorts that Dave was going to stick to his guns and he needed to be eliminated.

Is it even technically feasible for Dave Bochs to have lowered himself into the furnace?

Is it even technically feasible for Dave Bochs to have lowered himself into the furnace?


I wouldn't have thought so no. I think he was lowered in by others. They wouldn't have just thrown him in, they could have risked the liquid coming onto themselves. You can't ignore the wire which looked like it was wrapped around his feet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind
Is it even technically feasible for Dave Bochs to have lowered himself into the furnace?


I wouldn't have thought so no. I think he was lowered in by others. They wouldn't have just thrown him in, they could have risked the liquid coming onto themselves. You can't ignore the wire which looked like it was wrapped around his feet.

Even if he could lower himself down, I got to imagine it would be a difficult and time consuming task.

Seems like a lot of work and effort for such an unbelievably painful death. :eek:

How did Dave Bochs attempt suicide before?
Why didn;t he just try that method again?

Wow... lowering himself in???? We have a hard enough time imagining that someone would thrown themselves into a furnace, let alone intentionally torture himself. I think that theory is almost absolutely a no.

The thing I don't know, and maybe if any science types are here they can answer, is this: The very clear spike in cooling found on the temperature scale that they found, would that support being lowered? I sort of got the impression that such a spike would only be consistent with quick entry.

I hear everybody's opinion about the wire, but for some reason I can't help but think that might be a red herring. I could be totally wrong.

Yep, I believe it would have been impossible for him to lower himself into the furnace, because the remote control would have been needed, and that wasn't found inside the furnace. Of course, I'm basing this on the UM segment. I don't know for certain that the remote panel would be needed. Anyone know how those furnaces worked?

Personally, I dont believe he killed himself by jumping in, lowering himself in or doing anything with the furnace. However, if he did lower himself in or jump in, if he went head first, he would almost immediately be dead on impact as his body would have disintegrated beneath the fire/lava. So, what I'm getting at is that, even if he did kill himself this way, I highly doubt he suffered.

What do people make of the conversation in the truck with the supervisor?

Well, clearly the discussion was serious. I mean I will say, what strikes me as odd about it, is that well, they were already on the factory grounds, yet the supervisor did not talk to Bocks in front of other co-workers where the co-workers could hear. Rather he had Bocks get into his Ford Bronco and they talked inside the Bronco.

What is most unusual about that whole thing is that the windows of the Bronco were rolled up. Now maybe the air conditioning in the Bronco was on, but it still strikes me as unusual to have the air conditioning on at night. I mean, it would be easier just to roll down the windows. If that supervisor was driving around the plant grounds it would make more sense for him to have his windows down because he would have to be constantly stopping and checking on things, talking to people, getting out of the truck, etc.

So to me, clearly that supervisor wanted to have a discussion in private with Bocks. He did not want other workers to hear the content of the conversation. Now after the discussion was over, Bocks did not appear to be outwardly upset or distressed or depressed. When the co-worker asked Bocks if he needed any help with anything, Bocks replied 'no' and said that he was just 'putting his tools away' yet oddly he was not walking in the direction of the plant where he had been assigned but rather in the direction of another plant. So clearly someone wanted him to go over to the other plant or the supervisor asked him to go over there or something. It is just very suspicious.

Also, I have always found it odd how it was local law enforcement and it appears local law enforcement only that investigated this. It just seems also strange to me how the Hamilton County, Ohio Sheriff's Department seemed to look at this as a suicide from the start. I mean I know it sounds crazy and I have no evidence to back up what I am saying it is just an opinion, but I think someone got to them. Someone in a higher place got to them and said, this is a suicide, you are going to treat it as a suicide and that is that. I mean that was federal property where NLO was and I am surprised the FBI was not more involved. They might have been and we were just not told about it, that I do not know.

I remember Stack saying that 'representatives of the U.S. Department of Energy and the current Hamilton County Sheriff's Administration have refused to speak with us'. However he never said anything about the FBI which surprises me they were not front and center as they like to be in situations involving federal property. The FBI has a field office in Cincinnati so it just would surprise me if they had literally done no work into this case or that they do not have a file on this case. I have even thought of making a freedom of information act request of them to see what, if any info they have?

Someone in a higher place got to them and said, this is a suicide, you are going to treat it as a suicide and that is that. I mean that was federal property where NLO was and I am surprised the FBI was not more involved. They might have been and we were just not told about it, that I do not know.

I think when the sheriff called it a suicide the FBI probably figured it didn't need to get involved. They probably would only have investigated unless someone really made a stink about it.

Hmm, that is a good point Mastermind. I still would be surprised though if the FBI did not have some kind of a file on this case even if they never really looked into it much. I still find it strange how the Hamilton County Sheriff would be so quick to label this a suicide? It just seems someone got to them. Either that or they did not feel like putting in the work into finding out what really happened, so just label it a suicide and case closed.

Amazing thread for an amazing segment

I will never forget when the two guys wheel in Bocks on a cart then lower him into the furnace

I dont care if im 12 years old or 31 years old it always makes me :eek:

I'm sure the supervisor had to have been questioned about this (okay, I'm not sure, but they SHOULD have). You would think that with Dave Bocks being dead, the content of the conversation would have become public knowledge or at least the supervisor would want to clear up what was discussed, if he's not bound by some sort of agreement (what agreement could you be bound by this long after?). The fact that there isn't information about this available makes me very suspicious about the content of the conversation. Why wouldn't the supervisor want to clear that up to remove suspicion from himself?

I mean I know it sounds crazy and I have no evidence to back up what I am saying it is just an opinion, but I think someone got to them. Someone in a higher place got to them and said, this is a suicide, you are going to treat it as a suicide and that is that. I mean that was federal property where NLO was and I am surprised the FBI was not more involved. They might have been and we were just not told about it, that I do not know.


I completely agree. Especially when you said that they may have been told "Look this was a suicide, treat it as such." Plus, they probably killed him in the manner they did to hide any and all evidence and probably didn't expect anything to surface or even exist after they dumped him in.

Mastermind, when you said the FBI may not have been involved because it was labeled a suicide and no one made a stink about it, well Bocks daughter did have the segment broadcasted UM and she did say, as well as some of his friends, that there was no way he committed suicide. That's a pretty big stink, going to national television and all to have your side of the story told. I think the fact that this was shown on television and several people disagreeing with the suicide ruling and the FBI not getting involved furthers kadrmas point that it was deemed a suicide by higher ups and told to leave it alone.

Mastermind, when you said the FBI may not have been involved because it was labeled a suicide and no one made a stink about it, well Bocks daughter did have the segment broadcasted UM and she did say, as well as some of his friends, that there was no way he committed suicide. That's a pretty big stink

What I actually meant was that there was probably no supervisor or SAC (special agent in charge) that was angered enough to force the investigation.


The suicide ruling by the local police, gave the FBI an excuse to not investigate.
If an agent or supervisor was swamped with work, he could easily refuse the case based upon it being a suicide and no apparent threat to the federal installation.

What I actually meant was that there was probably no supervisor or SAC (special agent in charge) that was angered enough to force the investigation.

Ah, OK. Makes sense now. What was Dave supposedly going to blow the whistle on again? And what would have been the punishment for those involved? I cannot remember.

Did Dave have another set of keys on him? Did the supervisor leave the keys where someone knew they where? or was Easterling mistaken?

Did Dave have another set of keys on him? Did the supervisor leave the keys where someone knew they where? or was Easterling mistaken?

I think the fact that the keys were found in the furnace basically intact without much harm being done to them backs up Easterling's story that he saw Dave's keys in his toolbox. The killer(s) probably noticed the keys as well and went and dumped them in the furnace hours after Dave had been dumped in. That would explain why Bocks body was gone yet the keys had not been melted.

THis case was always puzzling to me. That is a horrible way to go whether he was dead when he hit the furnace or not its still really messed up.

NLO owned by the department of energy that makes nuclear weapons? Yeah thats pretty heavy stuff. Exactly the kind of stuff that the government wants to keep secret. The toxic waste, secret weapons and empolyees coming forward saying that at work they had to keep everything hush hush is more than enough for anyone to believe something fishy is going on. If all of these secrets with nlo are going on it really isnt that far fetched to believe that either other employees or the nlo company itself had something to do with poor dave's death.

The witness that saw dave talking to his supervisor in a car said the windows were rolled up despite how hot it was that evening. More Hush hush things going down I suppose.
Another witness said that dave left his keys in his tool box and never came back for them.
One of the items found was some sort of looped wire. Why would he have had a looped wire on him? He could have been tied up and lowered into the furnace but I don't see why he would have this if he commited suide and just jumped in.


I'll bet the supervisor was told by another or other employees that dave knew too much about the waste release in the plant. I mean this wasn't just getting rid of some waste here and there. Nlo was a big controversy plant esp. When the supervisor spoke with dave in the car he probably asked him what he knew, realesed he knew too much sent him to plant 4 instead of his regular plant 8 a couple employees shot him freaked out and threw him in the furnace in plant 6.

My question is that, is the supervisor that spoke to dave in the car the same supervisor that said there was absolutley nothing in the furnace when notified by another employee? That raises hella suspicion.
Also, why did the supervisor take the keys and shut his box? why would he need to do that? At that point no one knew he was dead, unless the supervisor had something to do with it and already knew he was gone. If he just thought he was working there would have been no reason to take his keys and shut his box. The supervisor looks super suspicious, if in fact its the same supervisor, but i dont think unsloved mysteries mentioned the supervisor(s) name or names.

Ugghhh this case will never be solved.

Suicide by jumping into toxic acid doesnt wash with me,seems far to much of a easy out for the company given John had a past incident why im sure the company was fully aware of.

Does anyone know what happended to the journalist that they interviewed on the segment he was pretty diffrent,I googled his name up awhile back to no avail.

He is mentioned briefly in this article about an investigation into satanism in Indiana schools: http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=149495;article=122804

He is mentioned briefly in this article about an investigation into satanism in Indiana schools: http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=149495;article=122804

Thank you very much, I wonder why theirs such minimal info on the guy.:confused:

Bumped this because I came across this today. It's a website maintained by a U of Cincinnati Clermont Biology and Chemistry professor. Apparently he used to give a slide show in the late '80s and early '90s on the environmental and health hazards posed by NLO:

http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/Society/nuclear/fernald/fernald.html

Bumped this because I came across this today. It's a website maintained by a U of Cincinnati Clermont Biology and Chemistry professor. Apparently he used to give a slide show in the late '80s and early '90s on the environmental and health hazards posed by NLO:

http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/Society/nuclear/fernald/fernald.html

Wow, thanks for the link Meg! How eerie would it be if in one of those pictures on the slide-show, stood Dave Bocks or possibly, his killer....

I'm sure the supervisor had to have been questioned about this (okay, I'm not sure, but they SHOULD have). You would think that with Dave Bocks being dead, the content of the conversation would have become public knowledge or at least the supervisor would want to clear up what was discussed, if he's not bound by some sort of agreement (what agreement could you be bound by this long after?). The fact that there isn't information about this available makes me very suspicious about the content of the conversation. Why wouldn't the supervisor want to clear that up to remove suspicion from himself?

The whole story is full of questions like this, which just strikes me as a abject failure of LE. It's very frustrating that we are speculating as to even if it's possible for Bocks to have committed suicide, when such a thing should be easily demonstratable. If it was physically impossible for a person to lower themselves into the furnace, then it would be impossible for Bocks to have committed suicide in this matter, period. There's no excuse for this to remain unknown.

Now the comments re: the FBI not investigating, I am not sure FBI would have had jurisdiction. I understand it was a building controlled by the feds, but that alone would not give the FBI jurisdiction. This said, I'm sure the FBI could have FOUND some grounds for jurisdiction if it were so inclined.

I don't know anything about manufacturing nuclear weapons or refining uranium or whatever the heck it was that NLO was doing, but I am wondering exactly what it was that fueled the furnace where the body was found.

The family was told that the few remaining bones found couldn't be released to them because they were so toxic that they had to be sealed and stored in a waste dump or something.

Why would Dave Bock's bones be contaminated with radioactive material if he was found dead in a furnace? Even that russian KGB agent, Alexander V. Litvinenko, who was poisoned to death with something radioactive (polonium?) was able to have a burial in a cemetery and they had his entire body, not just a tiny portion of remains.

I found this site today - it gives a lot of the history of the Fernald plant site and the future plans for the site after the safe closure. With all these plants being demolished, it makes you wonder what happened to Dave's remains.

http://www.lm.doe.gov/land/sites/oh/fernald_orig/index.htm

Thanks for that info, MissFit.

For some reason, I'm getting a whole Erin Brockovich, PG&E feeling about the old NLO site. Among some of the stuff they are working on: Remediate contaminated portions (approximately 225 acres) of the Great Miami Aquifer, one of the largest sole-source aquifers in the nation.

So basically, they've contaminated an admitted 225 acres of a huge aquifer with radioactive material? That's the info available on the second page, after you click the link that says they've only contaminated 170 acres of that aquifer. I wonder how affected the local population is regarding this water supply.

The work on this aspect is only 51% complete and they haven't updated the progress on the aquifer cleanup since 2006. All the other stuff is claimed to be 100% complete. But the link to the building decontamination and demolition takes you to a "bad request" page.

This page (of the site linked above) tells about what functions were performed by the different plants on the site.

http://www.lm.doe.gov/land/sites/oh/fernald_orig/50th/fppp.htm

I need to go back and read the thread, but wasn't Dave Bocks found dead in Plant 5? If so, I'm more than convinced that he could not have put himself into a furnace of radioactive material and then closed the "reduction pot" door.

Here's what went on in Plant 5:

"""The brown oxide was then reacted with anhydrous hydrogen fluoride to produce green salt. Fernald also produced green salt from uranium hexafluoride received from other sites in the nuclear weapons complex.

The green salt was packaged in 10-gallon cans and transported to the metal production operations in Plant 5, where it was blended with magnesium-metal granules, placed in a closed reduction pot and heated until the contents reacted, producing a uranium mass called a derby. The product, which resembled the top of a man’s derby hat, weighed up to 370 pounds."""

On the first page of this thread, it says he was found in Plant 6. If that's the case, here's what went on there:

"""In Plant 6, ingots were cut to various lengths and then machined to very tight specifications for the Savannah River site."""

So Plant 6 was just for cutting and machining ingots that were manufactured at another location on their site and the ingots received from other manufacturers? Here's the full paragraph regarding Plant 6. I'd like to study this further and be able to comment right now, but I don't have the time. I hope I'll be able to come back sometime today to read the rest of that site.

"""Fernald shipped some derbies to other DOE sites but most were re-melted inside a vacuum induction furnace and poured into pre-heated graphite molds to form ingots. Ingots varied in weight, size and shape, from 10 inches in diameter, 23 to 40 inches in length, and weighing up to 1,400 pounds. Fernald sent ingots to the RMI Facility in Astabula, Ohio, where most were extruded and then sent back to the Fernald site for heat treatment and final machining to target element cores for Savannah River in South Carolina. Enriched uranium ingots were prepared by RMI to produce a billet for direct shipment to Hanford in Washington. In Plant 6, ingots were cut to various lengths and then machined to very tight specifications for the Savannah River site."""

With all these plants being demolished, it makes you wonder what happened to Dave's remains.

I believe during the segment that either his daughter or co-worker said that Dave's remains are being held in a contamination site in Nevada.

As creepy, sad and unusual as this case is, I've always felt it played out almost exactly like the reenactment suggested.

Even if Dave had a suicide attempt in the past, I don't at all believe he killed himself. It was probably only brought up to add some dimension to the story. His daughter said how much of a nice, loving guy he was and that by 1984 he seemed to have his life back on track from his previous divorce (maybe that's why he was suicidal in the first place, if he really loved his wife?).

From all accounts it seemed to be a normal night of work. You'd think if he were planning to blow the whistle right then and there, UM would've mentioned some indication of it. What does puzzle me though, is what he was talking to the supervisor about at 4am, I think that was definitely related to his death. I believe the temperature drop in the furnace was most likely due to Dave being thrown in. :( Most likely he was summoned to plant 4 (instead of 8) and assaulted or killed right there.

I wonder if he was close enough to his friend/co worker Harry Easterling to have mentioned anything about that beforehand?

I need to go back and read the thread, but wasn't Dave Bocks found dead in Plant 5? If so, I'm more than convinced that he could not have put himself into a furnace of radioactive material and then closed the "reduction pot" door.

That should be reason enough to hush all the suicide critics of this case. There is no way that a human being or even Superman could lower themselves into the furnace and then shut the reduction door after he is already in the furnace. It makes zero sense.

That should be reason enough to hush all the suicide critics of this case. There is no way that a human being or even Superman could lower themselves into the furnace and then shut the reduction door after he is already in the furnace. It makes zero sense.

I have worked in and around steel mills and foundries for number of years and I can tell you that there be no way a human being could stand the heat long enough to lower themselves into a molten furnace. If for no other reason than the fact that their clothing and their safety equipment would catch fire long before they were lowered into the furnace.

I've always seen this case is being another real unsolved mystery in the fact that no one outside this man's family seemed ( or seems) to be too interested in solving this case.
One would think that if the government had truly thought that this man was under so much stress that he would pick such an obscure and agonizingly painful way to kill himself that they would have seriously looked into the potential for work conditions to have caused this level of stress.

As Fernald ( the plant where this incident occurred) has since been torn down, unless there's a confession of some type it's highly unlikely that this case will ever be solved.

I also tend to discount the claim that "he tried to commit suicide before and finally succeeded".

IIRC, his previous suicide attempt was about 5 years before he died. At that time, he was depressed because he was going through a divorce. IMO, he had moved on from that low point in his life and it was unrelated to his death at the Fernald plant.

Who kills themselves this way? Usually when someone is suicidal they want to be found by someone, (which is why they leave suicide notes to explain why, IMO) which obviously doesn't fit jumping into a piping hot furnace. In addition to the makeshift rope they found with three loops, there's no doubt in my mind this man was murdered. The most open and shut case on Unsolved Mysteries IMHO. Bocks was probably going to expose the emissions being released by the plant and was silenced. The worst part of the story is that his family can't have his remains because they are too toxic for a proper burial.

Who kills themselves this way? Usually when someone is suicidal they want to be found by someone, (which is why they leave suicide notes to explain why, IMO) which obviously doesn't fit jumping into a piping hot furnace.

I agree. The only weird suicide I have ever heard of is that chick who flew to another state, checked into a motel room and killed herself. Why do all of that if your going to kill yourself? Just like why would Dave Bocks lower himself into a piping hot furnace. It makes no sense and at some point, common sense should play a significant part in all LE investigations.

I really cannot believe that some peple here actually think he committed suicide. This is probably the most obvious case of murder ever profiled on UM, and yet, just as in all the other extremely obvious cases, you have those 2-3 people trying to be non-conformist and crying suicide. But, whatever.

Even a damn concussed goldfish with cerebral palsy and down syndrome should realize this is murder. This is past the realm of common sense. The fact that that police department has ruled it in suicide tells me that there clearly was no investigation. How could you possibly tell me that a person who would commit suicide would do it in that sort of unspeakable fashion, and that what, his ghost was the one who closed the furnace back up? Really?

I sincerely hope that he wasn't conscious when he was lowered to that vat of nuclear magma. You'd have to give some serious effort to think up of a more gruesome and unimaginable death.

I sincerely hope that he wasn't conscious when he was lowered to that vat of nuclear magma. You'd have to give some serious effort to think up of a more gruesome and unimaginable death.

I personally think he was killed before being placed in the furnace. Remember in the UM segment, the worker that was sifting through the furnace thought there was something foreign in there and when he told his supervisor (person of interest#1) brushed him off? It's a wonder why this case hasn't been solved. The eyewitness saw Bocks arguing with a supervisor (person of interest #2) in that car shortly before he died. Both of these people should have been investigated, especially after the toxic emissions became public.

and that what, his ghost was the one who closed the furnace back up? Really?

LMFAO!!! My thoughts exactly. I've always asked that question of the conspiracy theorists. If he committed suicide, who closed the furnace??

I think it's pretty obvious that Dave Bocks didn't commit suicide.

That being said... is it out of the realm of possibility that Dave may have had an "accomplice" in his suicide? One who may have closed the furnace after Dave jumped in?

Yes, I realize how absurd that sounds. I've always thought that Dave Bocks was murdered because he wasn't going to keep his mouth shut about something that was happening at his workplace. However, for the sake of argument... is it possible? Could he have had an accomplice that has never said anything?

I think it's pretty obvious that Dave Bocks didn't commit suicide.

That being said... is it out of the realm of possibility that Dave may have had an "accomplice" in his suicide? One who may have closed the furnace after Dave jumped in?

Yes, I realize how absurd that sounds. I've always thought that Dave Bocks was murdered because he wasn't going to keep his mouth shut about something that was happening at his workplace. However, for the sake of argument... is it possible? Could he have had an accomplice that has never said anything?

I'd say that it would be highly unlikely that if a person assisted in his suicide that they would have never came forward by now. Plus what would this person gain in helping a man kill himself?

I personally think he was killed before being placed in the furnace. Remember in the UM segment, the worker that was sifting through the furnace thought there was something foreign in there and when he told his supervisor (person of interest#1) brushed him off? It's a wonder why this case hasn't been solved. The eyewitness saw Bocks arguing with a supervisor (person of interest #2) in that car shortly before he died. Both of these people should have been investigated, especially after the toxic emissions became public.

Obviously that person was involved in his murder and the subsequent cover-up. He knew damn well that something was in the furnace--he was the one who did it.

Obviously that person was involved in his murder and the subsequent cover-up. He knew damn well that something was in the furnace--he was the one who did it.

I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion, but the guy simply could have thought his worker was overreacting and may very well be 100% innocent.

I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion, but the guy simply could have thought his worker was overreacting and may very well be 100% innocent.

I agree. I mean the guy could have helped murder Dave and cover it up but just because he brushed off an employee saying there is something in the furnace does not mean that he did. Hell, if he was involved and wanted it kept quiet and not noticed, he may have had that employee killed also since he found Dave's remains.

This is one of those cases where "legal red tape" is very frustrating. Techically due to the condition of the body/remains found in the furnace LE cannot definitively say he was murderd. But it's so obvious its unbelivable. Unless there is a confession of some sort, I don't see this case ever being solved unfortunately.

yes, i agree that the case of dave bocks is so creepy. do you think he was murdered or suicide? i dont think it was suicide cause that would be a hell of a way to go, no pun intended. but if it was suicide, it would be a very fast way to die. but i dont believe he would kill himself. do you think he accidentally fell in, like he was cleaning up on top of there and fell over?

i think it was murder and a coverup. someone at the company probably hired a couple hitmen, who killed him and threw him into the hot furnace. he probably knew too much about the company's illegal polution. also scary is the red haired guy interviewed with the beard. he seems like a very nice guy but has very bad teeth.

Yeah, I tend to think the same thing. The case of Dave Bocks is so creepy to me. I can only hope that he was dead before they threw him into the furnace. *shudder*

We'll probably never find out what happened.

D.C. Cole gets my vote for hottest UM interviewee.

D.C. Cole gets my vote for hottest UM interviewee.

I would like a grill like his one day.

D.C. Cole gets my vote for hottest UM interviewee.

I'm sure he gets many dates, but then scares them off when he keeps saying:
"I would hate to think that Dave Bock was conscious. I can’t imagine a more horrible death than that". (I know *I* would have a hard time not associating him with that line :eek: !)

Never really thought about the possibility of Bocks falling into the furnace accidentally. But that wouldn't really hold any water considering the police found that rope with the three loops which would indicate he was tied up before being lowered into the furnace. I wonder if his family ever got his remains back.

Does anyone else find it funny that the official cause of death is suicide yet this segment is on UM's Bizarre Murders DVD? LOL, even a television show knows its not a suicide.

D.C. Cole gets my vote for hottest UM interviewee.
He looks like the type to linger around the Regal Beagle with Larry Dallas.....

A couple of things I can't quite remember:

Didn't the guy who said it looked like something was in the furnace tell his supervisor it looked like a leg?

Did the supervisor look and then blow it off, or just blow it off?

A couple of things I can't quite remember:

Didn't the guy who said it looked like something was in the furnace tell his supervisor it looked like a leg?

Did the supervisor look and then blow it off, or just blow it off?

IIRC, he looked into the furnace, didn't see anything that called his attention, and then blew it off.

IIRC, he looked into the furnace, didn't see anything that called his attention, and then blew it off.

The co-worker alerted his supervisor about something being in the furnace. The supervisor shrugged it off and said continue working. The co-worker then said something to the effect of "Listen, it looks like a human leg in there." At that point the supervisor took a look and then LE were notified.

Someone got away with murder here. Don't forget that the co-worker he carpooled with said that Dave's keys were there all night and morning, and that he saw Dave's supervisor take the keys....Seriously? No foul play is what the cops think? :rolleyes:

Someone got away with murder here. Don't forget that the co-worker he carpooled with said that Dave's keys were there all night and morning, and that he saw Dave's supervisor take the keys....Seriously? No foul play is what the cops think? :rolleyes:


Agreed. I am surprised that that specific supervisor was not cornered on the fact that one of his employees said they witnessed him take the keys that were later found in the furnace.

Clearly a case of murder yes and if the official cause of death is still suicide than that is a total miscarriage of justice.

D.C. Cole gets my vote for hottest UM interviewee.

I was amused in the Liebling segment when one of the fisherman was named D.C. Cole as well (the one that finds the net). But sadly, he was not NEARLY as attractive as our journalist friend here. :happyface

I was amused in the Liebling segment when one of the fisherman was named D.C. Cole as well (the one that finds the net). But sadly, he was not NEARLY as attractive as our journalist friend here. :happyface

I hope that sexy beast D.C Coles stops by this forum to say Hello one of these days..... :props:

I hope that sexy beast D.C Coles stops by this forum to say Hello one of these days..... :props:

I wonder what Mr. Cole's breath smelled like. I'd imagine the NLO fumes leaked into the air had nothing on Cole's morning breath.

In all seriousness, how investigators list his death as "undetermined" is beyond me. What person, suicidal or not, is going to kill themselves by jumping into a piping hot furnace. This whole thing screams a set up. Remember what Bocks's co-worker said? His supervisor assigned him to work in Plant 8, but the last time he was seen alive he was seen walking towards Plant 4. And there was also the heated argument that was seen between Bocks and a supervisor in a pickup truck. All signs point to murder, and it's no question that Dave Bocks was going to blow the whistle on the NLO scandal. Hopefully we have a confession soon to solve this case.

I wonder what Mr. Cole's breath smelled like. I'd imagine the NLO fumes leaked into the air had nothing on Cole's morning breath.

In all seriousness, how investigators list his death as "undetermined" is beyond me. What person, suicidal or not, is going to kill themselves by jumping into a piping hot furnace. This whole thing screams a set up. Remember what Bocks's co-worker said? His supervisor assigned him to work in Plant 8, but the last time he was seen alive he was seen walking towards Plant 4. And there was also the heated argument that was seen between Bocks and a supervisor in a pickup truck. All signs point to murder, and it's no question that Dave Bocks was going to blow the whistle on the NLO scandal. Hopefully we have a confession soon to solve this case.

LMAO @ the DC Cole aroma.

In all seriousness though, the issue I have with this case is the cause of death, like you mentioned. It makes no sense to me that it would be labeled as "undetermined". Especially when you have body parts and a wires which probably served as restraints found. Any idiot would know that this man did not tie himself up and jump into a fiery pit!

If you are to believe Harry Easterling, and I do as he seems very truthful and forthcoming, then Dave's keys were on top of his toolbox the day after his disappearance. If that is the case, then how in the hell did they get into the lava when another co-worker had already alerted his superior that there was a body in the lava? Someone had obviously thought that they disposed of everything related to Dave Bocks and when they found his keys, they went over and tossed them into the lava. That single fact is suspicious enough for an investigation.

For some reason, I did a google search for ol' D.C. Cole recently but I cant find a single thing about him on the web. Maybe he passed on.

For some reason, I did a google search for ol' D.C. Cole recently but I cant find a single thing about him on the web. Maybe he passed on.

If that's true, women everywhere will have their hearts skip a beat.

For some reason, I did a google search for ol' D.C. Cole recently but I cant find a single thing about him on the web. Maybe he passed on.

Ugly, ugly man.

Ugly, ugly man.

He's always reminded me of Waingro from "Heat".

http://www.worldcat.org/title/bocks-conspiracy-the-truth-behind-the-mysterious-disappearance-in-1984-of-fernald-nuclear-plant-worker-dave-bocks-has-remain-a-deep-dark-and-even-deadly-us-government-secret-until-now/oclc/46473764

I found this link that looks like DC Cole wrote a book about the Bocks case, but I can't find anything else about it online.

He's always reminded me of Waingro from "Heat".

There is a certain resemblance!

http://www.worldcat.org/title/bocks-conspiracy-the-truth-behind-the-mysterious-disappearance-in-1984-of-fernald-nuclear-plant-worker-dave-bocks-has-remain-a-deep-dark-and-even-deadly-us-government-secret-until-now/oclc/46473764

I found this link that looks like DC Cole wrote a book about the Bocks case, but I can't find anything else about it online.

So odd too, especially since The Library of Congress is the only Library with a copy or whatever it is (is it even a book?). I am intrigued! I wonder if I can Inter Library Loan (ILL) it through my university... I don't know if I am brave enough in case it is just a bunch of random notes/can you even ILL through the Library of Congress?

So odd too, especially since The Library of Congress is the only Library with a copy or whatever it is (is it even a book?). I am intrigued! I wonder if I can Inter Library Loan (ILL) it through my university... I don't know if I am brave enough in case it is just a bunch of random notes/can you even ILL through the Library of Congress?


Did you ever do this?

I think its possible that he committed suicide. But, the murder theory is also plausible. In regards to the suicide theory, the interesting challenge is why he would choose such an incredibly grisly death, and why not pills or gunshot? Would hoisting yourself many feet up in the air off the ground and then plunging headfirst into thousand degree liquid fire really be a preffered method of death? If he was considering suicide and chose it, why couldn't/shouldn't he have simply found a more convienant way to die? It doesn't add up to me. Then factor in the whistleblowing situation, and the argument with the boss and the secretive nature of the plant and workers. Go fish.

No way would someone lower themselves into a piping hot furnace. If there was some sort of control device where he would have to continually press a button to lower himself, Bocks would have been dead the moment his head hit the liquid, ruining his chances of further pushing himself down more.

I think its possible that he committed suicide. But, the murder theory is also plausible. In regards to the suicide theory, the interesting challenge is why he would choose such an incredibly grisly death, and why not pills or gunshot? Would hoisting yourself many feet up in the air off the ground and then plunging headfirst into thousand degree liquid fire really be a preffered method of death? If he was considering suicide and chose it, why couldn't/shouldn't he have simply found a more convienant way to die? It doesn't add up to me. Then factor in the whistleblowing situation, and the argument with the boss and the secretive nature of the plant and workers. Go fish.

I think suicide would be impossible. Wasn't the lid closed on the furnace after he entered it? Whoever put him in there expected everything to be destroyed. They weren't counting on the temperature drop being noticed and the keys, wire, and bone fragments surviving the heat.

I think suicide would be impossible. Wasn't the lid closed on the furnace after he entered it? Whoever put him in there expected everything to be destroyed. They weren't counting on the temperature drop being noticed and the keys, wire, and bone fragments surviving the heat.

That's another excellent point. Just how would Bocks be able to attach himself to the lift and the crudely made wire harness? And why worry about throwing his keys into the furnace if this were indeed a suicide?

http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/Society/nuclear/fernald/molten_salt_vatP9020021.jpg

It's almost certain that the 'lid' on this big smelter was not some flimsy thing that two guys could lug into place on their own. I guarantee you that it was HEAVY and for that reason and the fact that it's covering 1300+ degree molten material, that this 'lid' would have to be lifted and set in place with a crane. In fact, that yellow beam in the photo probably IS part of the crane.

Which makes it even less likely that Dave Bocks killed himself on his own that night.

http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/Society/nuclear/fernald/molten_salt_vatP9020021.jpg

It's almost certain that the 'lid' on this big smelter was not some flimsy thing that two guys could lug into place on their own. I guarantee you that it was HEAVY and for that reason and the fact that it's covering 1300+ degree molten material, that this 'lid' would have to be lifted and set in place with a crane. In fact, that yellow beam in the photo probably IS part of the crane.

Which makes it even less likely that Dave Bocks killed himself on his own that night.

Thanks for that pic. I dug around and found the website dedicated to the Fernald Plant that shows that pic. They say that is THE actual furnace Bock's remains were found in. I wonder if that's correct. All the other photos on the site were interesting, too. Very helpful in understanding the entire story.

http://biology.clc.uc.edu/fankhauser/society/nuclear/fernald/fernald.html

This is one of those cases where it really could go either way, but I am wondering if there is any way that this could have been accidental?

I can't imagine someone choosing such an excruciating way to kill themselves, but there have been documented cases of people self immolating, so it is possible.

This is one of those cases where it really could go either way, but I am wondering if there is any way that this could have been accidental?

I can't imagine someone choosing such an excruciating way to kill themselves, but there have been documented cases of people self immolating, so it is possible.
I think there are too many bizarre factors for this to have been an accident, including:

1) The future scandal once it was publicly known about the very dangerous chemicals (that were released into the atmosphere later)
2) Dave heading for a plant he was not assigned to work in (I believe his remains were found in an entirely different plan than he was headed to OR working in). I seem to recall he was supposed to be at plant 4, headed for plant 8, and his bones and personal effects were discovered in plant 6. This is really creepy. I would have to watch again to verify the numbers.
3) The mysterious, covert conversation he had with a supervisor in a pick up truck with the windows rolled up on a hot evening.


I don't buy the suicide theory. Anyone who worked in the plant would know how horrible gruesome it would be to throw themselves in. An accident is possible, I suppose, but it really seems unlikely that an experiences workman would fall in PLUS the lid was closed and heavy as others had mentioned. Assuming there was no foul play and he fell or jumped in, he would have had to have moved the lid on his own and then someone would have discovered it being off and reported that if there was really no unscrupulous activity going on. This case reeks of murder.

It would be too much of a coincidence for Bocks to not have been murdered shortly after being seen arguing heatedly with his supervisor.

I think suicide would be impossible. Wasn't the lid closed on the furnace after he entered it? Whoever put him in there expected everything to be destroyed. They weren't counting on the temperature drop being noticed and the keys, wire, and bone fragments surviving the heat.

Completely agree. Seems very likely that there were more than just a single perpetrator involved in this, which leads me to buy into the whole "whistle blower/cover up" of some sort.

Count me in as one who buys into the cover-up theory. In my mind, only three questions remain - 1) how far up did said cover-up go 2) who knew what, when and 3) what, if anything, did his supervisor have to do with it

As to how this specifically happened, I have two theories......

Self Preservation
It's possible a person or group of people (lower on the conspiracy chain) knew what was going on at NLO, but chose to "tow the line" as it were, being more concerned with their own careers/self-interest. Somehow, they either found out Bocks was making waves or just figured he couldn't be counted on to keep his mouth shut and decided to take him out of the picture in order to maintain the status quo.

A Premeditated Hit
Again, a person or group of people knew what was going on at NLO. Someone at or near the top of the conspiracy chain made the decision that Bocks had to go for whatever reason and ordered two or more 'flunkies' to take him out.


Now as to the heated conversation with his supervisor, does anyone know what that might be about?? I've skimmed the preceding pages of this thread, but haven't heard of anything. Could it be possible that Bocks' supervisor was playing it safe, trying to convince him to keep his mouth shut or quick making waves? Or could it have been something more routine/mundane?

Now as to the heated conversation with his supervisor, does anyone know what that might be about?? I've skimmed the preceding pages of this thread, but haven't heard of anything. Could it be possible that Bocks' supervisor was playing it safe, trying to convince him to keep his mouth shut or quick making waves? Or could it have been something more routine/mundane?

Something along those lines is what many of us speculate on. Also, do we know for a fact that Dave Bocks was going to be a "whistleblower" or is that also conjecture on the part of the UM segment?

I something along those lines is what many of us speculate on. Also, do we know for a fact that Dave Bocks was going to be a "whistleblower" or is that also conjecture on the part of the UM segment?


I think that's conjecture, though I'm not sure whether it came from UM or somewhere else.

I can not understand how the retired detective said "we found no evidence of foul play." ummmm...really? The wire tied into three loops that would indicate he was tied and lowered into the furnace? The eye witness account of the intense discussion between bocks and his supervisor? His coworkers account of his keys being in his tool box after the furnace temp dropped but yet his keys were found with him in the furnace? The timing of Dave's death and then the scandal that rocked the plant? All these point to foul play and that his death would need to be investigated more seriously in that direction.

I think that's conjecture, though I'm not sure whether it came from UM or somewhere else.

I've always wondered where it came from. They could have been arguing about a ballgame or which place in town had the best burger.

I've always wondered where it came from. They could have been arguing about a ballgame or which place in town had the best burger.

I was coming to post something similar, but if the coworker's account is accurate, it was a humid night and Bocks and his supervisor were sitting in a car that wasn't running with the windows rolled up.

Interestingly enough, his coworker and carpool friend Harry Easterling had stated emphatically that he saw his keys sitting inside his unlocked toolbox at around 7:00 a.m. that morning. The furnace had a "foreign" substance enter it at 5:15 a.m. This was believed to have been the time that Bocks went into the furnace. But the police found his keys inside the furnace as well. Easterling said the last person who had access to the keys was the "supervisor". Easterling says after he told the supervisor about Bocks being missing that he went over to the toolbox, locked it, and took the keys with him.

I was coming to post something similar, but if the coworker's account is accurate, it was a humid night and Bocks and his supervisor were sitting in a car that wasn't running with the windows rolled up.

Interestingly enough, his coworker and carpool friend Harry Easterling had stated emphatically that he saw his keys sitting inside his unlocked toolbox at around 7:00 a.m. that morning. The furnace had a "foreign" substance enter it at 5:15 a.m. This was believed to have been the time that Bocks went into the furnace. But the police found his keys inside the furnace as well. Easterling said the last person who had access to the keys was the "supervisor". Easterling says after he told the supervisor about Bocks being missing that he went over to the toolbox, locked it, and took the keys with him.

Thanks for clearing that up. It has been years since I've seen it. So basically due to the fact that the supervisor seems to have thrown the keys into the furnace and given his car meeting with Dave, it is assumed that there may have been some sort of spat between the two which led to his murder/

I was coming to post something similar, but if the coworker's account is accurate, it was a humid night and Bocks and his supervisor were sitting in a car that wasn't running with the windows rolled up.

Interestingly enough, his coworker and carpool friend Harry Easterling had stated emphatically that he saw his keys sitting inside his unlocked toolbox at around 7:00 a.m. that morning. The furnace had a "foreign" substance enter it at 5:15 a.m. This was believed to have been the time that Bocks went into the furnace. But the police found his keys inside the furnace as well. Easterling said the last person who had access to the keys was the "supervisor". Easterling says after he told the supervisor about Bocks being missing that he went over to the toolbox, locked it, and took the keys with him.


YES! The keys! This makes two witnesses placing the supervisor with Bocks right before he disappeared and the last person with Bocks Keys which then ended up in the furnace after the temperature drop. Yet the detective said they found nothing to support the possibility of foul play? It just seems odd. Especially with the wire in three loops found with his bone fragments. It feels like the PD put their heads in the sand on purpose

YES! The keys! This makes two witnesses placing the supervisor with Bocks right before he disappeared and the last person with Bocks Keys which then ended up in the furnace after the temperature drop. Yet the detective said they found nothing to support the possibility of foul play? It just seems odd. Especially with the wire in three loops found with his bone fragments. It feels like the PD put their heads in the sand on purpose

The more that time has passed on this case and the more that the "official" ruling has stayed accident or suicide, I don't know whether or not the cops just buried their heads in the sand or not. On the surface, knowing what eventually happened with NLO it does seem like a huge coverup, and that Bocks was eventually going to "blow the whistle" on what was going on at the plant. But I don't know how true this is anymore.

Here's what we know:

-A coworker had seen Bocks and a supervisor (not specified in the UM segment whether or not this was the same supervisor who retrieved his keys) were having a "heated" conversation in a car with the windows rolled up on a hot night. The coworker did not hear what they were talking about, so it's all just rank speculation. But it does add an heir of mystery to the possible murder and cover up "whistle blower" theory.
-Harry Easterling claims to have seen Bocks' keys at 7:00 a.m. after Bocks is believed to have went in the furnace. But then again, he could have possibly been mistaken about the time he saw them, or Bocks could have possibly had another set of keys. The UM segment doesn't specify, all it says is that 3 of the keys found on the ring were to 3 padlocks, and one was possibly to his residence, but they were unable to determine it due to the condition of the key. They don't say if the keys found in the furnace matched the toolbox that Easterling says he saw Bocks open. Again, this is just more speculation.
-Assuming the police did a thorough investigation, they had to have talked to relatives and friends of Bocks. They probably asked them if he had ever said anything cryptic about his job ("I'll tell you more one day", "if anything ever happens to me", etc.) but came up empty handed. If he did ever utter these remarks to anyone, this certainly would have been brought up in the UM segment as they had done in countless other murder/suicide segments. They just couldn't find anything or anyone with knowledge that Bocks actually KNEW what was going on in the plant. Even Harry Easterling had said that he was told to keep quiet and not ask any questions when he started working there, and IIRC, even he didn't know what was going on at the plant. It's possible that Bocks had no knowledge either.
-The segment mentions that Bocks had tried to take his life before this incident and also had a history of psychological problems. This would be a red flag to the investigators, for obvious reasons. And if you take into account that they couldn't find any credible lead pushing them into the "foul play" territory, it's no wonder why they thought this was a possible suicide. Again, assuming that the police did even a halfway decent investigation, I'm guessing they talked to the supervisors and other workers that night to question them about their whereabouts, any prior "beef" they had with Bocks, etc. and came up with nothing.

When comparing the Dave Bocks case to another similar killed because of the job case (Su Taraskiewicz), it's apples and oranges. In Su's case you actually have repeated incidents involving multiple witnesses with people who saw her being verbally and physically harassed on her job, and actually had real suspects in the case. With Bocks, you really don't have any of that, outside of what eventually happened to NLO. If you were to take away the whole scandal aspect of what eventually happened to NLO, there would be no mystery or coverup aspect to Dave Bocks, because it would be nothing but a suicide or an accident. The only reason Bocks was suspected of being murdered was because of what eventually happened to NLO. And even though Su Taraskiewicz's airline eventually had a similar incident involving a stolen credit card fraud ring, you still had people who worked with Su who had a motive to want her dead. With Bocks, there were no "suspects" in the segment, nor anyone who had any real reason to want him dead. For all we know the supervisors were kept in the dark just as much as Harry Easterling and other plant workers with regards to what really was going on at NLO. And Easterling says something in the segment about Bocks being a "quiet guy" who had warned fellow workers about different dangers within the plant. But that's hardly enough evidence to conclude that Bocks knew what was going on, and that he planned on blowing the whistle on anything.

Right that is all very true and accurate. The three looped wire as if to tie someones legs and have them lowered into the furnance found with his remains just makes me suspicious. Unless someone helped him commit suicide, I cant see why that would be in there. His coworker with the keys, I don't see why he would lie though. There is no concrete evidence of a murder and with just bone fragments and nobody coming forward, they really don't have proof of anything. However, just because with official position is still suicide/accident doesn't make me believe it just because time has passed. I don't believe JFK was killed by a lone nut assassin just because the government hasn't changed its position all these years. I'm not saying the police were part of the cover up with Bocks but that it might just have been there had proof.

Right that is all very true and accurate. The three looped wire as if to tie someones legs and have them lowered into the furnance found with his remains just makes me suspicious. Unless someone helped him commit suicide, I cant see why that would be in there. His coworker with the keys, I don't see why he would lie though. There is no concrete evidence of a murder and with just bone fragments and nobody coming forward, they really don't have proof of anything. However, just because with official position is still suicide/accident doesn't make me believe it just because time has passed. I don't believe JFK was killed by a lone nut assassin just because the government hasn't changed its position all these years. I'm not saying the police were part of the cover up with Bocks but that it might just have been there had proof.

That three looped wire really is the only concrete hint of foul play in the case. Everything else is speculative. I'm curious what the explanation from police for them was, since they seem to think it was an accident or suicide.

ETA: A lot is being made about a lid being used to contain the molten liquid. If there was in fact a lid that had to be opened before falling into it and the lid was found closed, how on Earth would police not rule this a homicide? I tend to think that there had to be a way for someone to enter the furnace without having to open or close a lid, or police wouldn't think it was an accident or suicide. Not to mention, if the UM reenactment is accurate, the worker who found Dave's remains was seen standing right near the lip of the furnace. So it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that someone could have fallen in accidentally.

There is absolutely no way that this man committed suicide by jumping into a furnace. I don't know the logistics of what a worked needed to do or where they needed to be with regards to working near or on those furnaces so I wouldn't rule out an accident, however, the wire is what makes me think there was some sort of foul play going on.

If you were to take away the whole scandal aspect of what eventually happened to NLO, there would be no mystery or coverup aspect to Dave Bocks, because it would be nothing but a suicide or an accident. The only reason Bocks was suspected of being murdered was because of what eventually happened to NLO. And even though Su Taraskiewicz's airline eventually had a similar incident involving a stolen credit card fraud ring, you still had people who worked with Su who had a motive to want her dead. With Bocks, there were no "suspects" in the segment, nor anyone who had any real reason to want him dead. For all we know the supervisors were kept in the dark just as much as Harry Easterling and other plant workers with regards to what really was going on at NLO. And Easterling says something in the segment about Bocks being a "quiet guy" who had warned fellow workers about different dangers within the plant. But that's hardly enough evidence to conclude that Bocks knew what was going on, and that he planned on blowing the whistle on anything.

This is where I get tripped up. I agree that if you were to discount the entire NLO angle, the most plausible motive (at least in my opinion) would disappear. If this actually turned out to be a random act (no accident), then it's incredibly depraved (compared to shooting, stabbing etc).

There is absolutely no way that this man committed suicide by jumping into a furnace. I don't know the logistics of what a worked needed to do or where they needed to be with regards to working near or on those furnaces so I wouldn't rule out an accident, however, the wire is what makes me think there was some sort of foul play going on.

The only plausible explanation I can think of for suicide would be for him to have taken a ton of sleeping pills, used the wire harness to hang onto before falling asleep and landing in the furnace. I know it's ridiculous and not likely that this happened, but Tom Keuter springs to mind.

ETA: DC Cole is one of those conspiracy theorists who believe in just about every conspiracy there is, so I wouldn't take much stock in what he says in the segment outside of the NLO scandal.

The biggest piece of this confusing puzzle is to figure out why Bocks was in the plant he went to. Did he ever go there by himself before? Did he usually work there? Were any of the workers whereabouts that night unaccounted for?

The only plausible explanation I can think of for suicide would be for him to have taken a ton of sleeping pills, used the wire harness to hang onto before falling asleep and landing in the furnace. I know it's ridiculous and not likely that this happened, but Tom Keuter springs to mind.

ETA: DC Cole is one of those conspiracy theorists who believe in just about every conspiracy there is, so I wouldn't take much stock in what he says in the segment outside of the NLO scandal.

The biggest piece of this confusing puzzle is to figure out why Bocks was in the plant he went to. Did he ever go there by himself before? Did he usually work there? Were any of the workers whereabouts that night unaccounted for?

Agree with you on DC Cole. I didn't much stock into what he said.

Even if you take out all those hoopla around "whistle blowing", the stuff found in the furnace with Bocks' body just doesn't add up to a suicide.

If it was an accident, I wonder if someone inadvertently knocked him in and then ran to get help from someone else who helped that person make it look like a suicide.

Did you ever do this?
I did! After about four months (that was the time limit I gave interlibrary loan to request and receive the item), the request bounced back to me and said they were unable to locate the item. I found it really odd. :confused:
WorldCat lists the Library of Congress as having a copy of it in a book format (and lists the copyright date as 1998), but there is no publisher listed, number of pages, etc. So, based on what I heard back, either: 1) The Library of Congress does not loan books out, 2) The Library of Congress does not loan this book out, or 3) The book does not really exist.

ETA: I googled Harry Easterling to see what I could find out about him, and I found this (http://www.nytimes.com/1988/12/20/us/mood-is-sour-as-workers-head-back-to-ohio-weapons-plant.html) NYT article where he is interviewed after a strike at NLO in 1988. Even though Westinghouse did not operate the plant until 1986 (two years after Dave's death), NLO seemed like a very shady place to work.

I really wish that there was more online about this case. It breaks my heart, and I hope his family can get closure one say.

I did! After about four months (that was the time limit I gave interlibrary loan to request and receive the item), the request bounced back to me and said they were unable to locate the item. I found it really odd. :confused:
WorldCat lists the Library of Congress as having a copy of it in a book format (and lists the copyright date as 1998), but there is no publisher listed, number of pages, etc. So, based on what I heard back, either: 1) The Library of Congress does not loan books out, 2) The Library of Congress does not loan this book out, or 3) The book does not really exist.

ETA: I googled Harry Easterling to see what I could find out about him, and I found this (http://www.nytimes.com/1988/12/20/us/mood-is-sour-as-workers-head-back-to-ohio-weapons-plant.html) NYT article where he is interviewed after a strike at NLO in 1988. Even though Westinghouse did not operate the plant until 1986 (two years after Dave's death), NLO seemed like a very shady place to work.

I really wish that there was more online about this case. It breaks my heart, and I hope his family can get closure one say.

Nice work! Interesting to me that Easterling continued to work for them after the UM segment.

I haven't seen this case, so forgive me if I ask something that is glaringly obvious in the segment. Was there any mention of OSHA investigating? I find it a bit odd that they would not be involved at least at the beginning.

I haven't seen this case, so forgive me if I ask something that is glaringly obvious in the segment. Was there any mention of OSHA investigating? I find it a bit odd that they would not be involved at least at the beginning.

There was no mention of one in the segment, but I'm sure they at least checked in on the situation at some point.

I'm inclined to think the same, but having worked in an industry where OSHA was normally heavily involved, I'm almost thinking no because they normally shut down the works until an investigation is completed. I'd imagine they'd still have a ton of questions even in a "suicide."

I'm inclined to think the same, but having worked in an industry where OSHA was normally heavily involved, I'm almost thinking no because they normally shut down the works until an investigation is completed. I'd imagine they'd still have a ton of questions even in a "suicide."

In a Washington Post article (https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/magazine/1985/07/28/uncle-sams-hot-spot/9bf1ef75-655c-4fc7-ab87-69f038076d67/)published over a year after Bocks' death, OSHA wasn't allowed to inspect the facility:

For example, the Fernald plant is only a few miles away from the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, which is based in Cincinnati. NIOSH is the research arm of the Occupational Safety and Health Administration; it employs some of the nation's top toxicologists and occupational health specialists. According to Jerry Flesch, assistant chief of the institute's hazard evaluation branch, union members approached NIOSH about the Fernald situation in early 1983. "We then approached the DOE's offices at Oak Ridge with our desire to follow up the workers' requests for information," said Flesch, "and in the fall of 1984 we got a tour of the plant and got an idea of what the basic operations were." But it was not an inspection tour. No NIOSH or OSHA inspections have ever been granted at Fernald.

Apparently Dept. of Energy exempted themselves from compliance with OSHA and NIOSH. They could grant tours if they wanted to, but they weren't obligated to allow an inspection, the way other facilities would have had to.

Even then, tricks get pulled. At the facility where I'm employed, OSHA wanted to inspect a particular department for safety issues, the plant manager turned them away. OSHA came back the following day with a search warrant, but conveniently that whole department had been told to take the day off by the plant manager.

Don't know if this has been posted to this thread yet: http://www.fernaldcommunityalliance.org/interviews.html which is interviews conducted with people involved with Fernald.

Agree with you on DC Cole. I didn't much stock into what he said.

Even if you take out all those hoopla around "whistle blowing", the stuff found in the furnace with Bocks' body just doesn't add up to a suicide.

If it was an accident, I wonder if someone inadvertently knocked him in and then ran to get help from someone else who helped that person make it look like a suicide.

I don't put much stock into what he said either, whatever it was he said.

What they found in the furnace adds up to clearly he was murdered, the wires in three oddly connected loops was clearly used to tie his legs together and his keys were found in his box and just thrown in after the fact.

Not actually related to the case, this is a picture of Tony Partington the man who protrayed Dave Bocks in the episode. A well accomplished actor who did all his own stunts. Pretty cool, I'd like to find out more about actors in U.M.


http://www.tonypartington.com/uploads/5/7/5/1/5751212/7624754_orig.jpg

Was that a picture used from the segment?

Yes it was on the actor's website and mentioned it was him from the segment.

Yes it was on the actor's website and mentioned it was him from the segment.

Wow that was pretty neat. I don't think I've ever seen a behind the scenes photo from a re-enactment before.

Totally random question, but was this segment filmed at the actual location?

Totally random question, but was this segment filmed at the actual location?
Excellent question I would love to know the answer to. I'm going to do a little research.

Totally random question, but was this segment filmed at the actual location?

Interesting question, I'm not sure but the plant would have been closed for 3 years after the fact. I'm not sure if anyone would be allowed there.

Interesting question, I'm not sure but the plant would have been closed for 3 years after the fact. I'm not sure if anyone would be allowed there.

Looking at Wikipedia it says that the sight was deemed permanently unfit for human habitation, and the cleanup of the sight didn't finish until 2006. Also the segment said that Bocks' remains are still on the property, because they were too toxic to put in the ground. I'd say that they weren't allowed to film there.

Looking at Wikipedia it says that the sight was deemed permanently unfit for human habitation, and the cleanup of the sight didn't finish until 2006. Also the segment said that Bocks' remains are still on the property, because they were too toxic to put in the ground. I'd say that they weren't allowed to film there.

Thanks for the info. I'm not 100% but didn't Harry Easterling continue to work there after the segment was filmed?

Looking at Wikipedia it says that the sight was deemed permanently unfit for human habitation, and the cleanup of the sight didn't finish until 2006. Also the segment said that Bocks' remains are still on the property, because they were too toxic to put in the ground. I'd say that they weren't allowed to film there.

The billions of dollars needed to clean up the place :crazy:

Anyone find that local journalist that looked like a Woodstock leftover humorous? Was the only humorous thing in the segment. He meant well. He was just funny. "We have an environmental disasta..... But I think if you took a survey, Around the community, You'll find very few people..... Who trust the govament now." [The face he made made it seem like he just won the Presidential Debate or something]

Anyone find that local journalist that looked like a Woodstock leftover humorous?

I think he's more more backwoods than Woodstock, but I'm surprised that D.C. Cole has never come on here to post.

As far as the UM segment, that actor's facebook (https://www.facebook.com/tenortonypartington/photos/a.1658860667726577.1073741827.1658224441123533/1658863384392972/?type=1&theater), with the same image that sdb484 posted above, mentions that it was filmed in Knoxville, TN.

I think it's been mentioned before on this board, but considering it's been a couple of decades since this happened-- and all kinds of environmental toxins were involved-- I wonder if anyone originally employed at NLO has suffered any kinds of cancer from this. If so, you would think that someone would come out with the truth about Dave Bocks by now to drive a final nail into the coffin of those in charge of NLO at the time of Bocks' disappearance.

I think he's more more backwoods than Woodstock, but I'm surprised that D.C. Cole has never come on here to post.

As far as the UM segment, that actor's facebook (https://www.facebook.com/tenortonypartington/photos/a.1658860667726577.1073741827.1658224441123533/1658863384392972/?type=1&theater), with the same image that sdb484 posted above, mentions that it was filmed in Knoxville, TN.

I've tried searching for DC Cole online and cant find a thing. I wonder if he's even still alive?

Nice find on that FB picture/location!

I think he's more more backwoods than Woodstock, but I'm surprised that D.C. Cole has never come on here to post.

As far as the UM segment, that actor's facebook (https://www.facebook.com/tenortonypartington/photos/a.1658860667726577.1073741827.1658224441123533/1658863384392972/?type=1&theater), with the same image that sdb484 posted above, mentions that it was filmed in Knoxville, TN.
Anyone have any info on DC? a quick google search (a lazy one) didnt come up with anything

I've tried searching for DC Cole online and cant find a thing. I wonder if he's even still alive?

Nice find on that FB picture/location!
My bad haha I was thinking the EXACT same thing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fernald_Feed_Materials_Production_Center WIKI PAGE if anyone is interested

I've tried searching for DC Cole online and cant find a thing. I wonder if he's even still alive?


He's listed as being born in 1936, so he's getting up there, but he published a biography (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1922185.D_C_Cole) on Da Vinci in 2014. This website (http://classify.oclc.org/classify2/ClassifyDemo?search-author-txt=%22Cole%2C+D.+C.%2C+1936-%22) lists several of his books.

He's listed as being born in 1936, so he's getting up there, but he published a biography (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1922185.D_C_Cole) on Da Vinci in 2014. This website (http://classify.oclc.org/classify2/ClassifyDemo?search-author-txt=%22Cole%2C+D.+C.%2C+1936-%22) lists several of his books.
DC Cole is going to be 80 this year?!!?!? Wow.

DC Cole is going to be 80 this year?!!?!? Wow.

No freaking way :0

One thing I've wondered, were they able to confirm that the fragments found were daves? Or was it something more like "most likely they were his"?

I've always wondered if they knew for sure.

One thing I've wondered, were they able to confirm that the fragments found were daves? Or was it something more like "most likely they were his"?

I've always wondered if they knew for sure.

well I certainly hope nobody else's were in there...

I just saw this one for the first time...

While I think that Dave was obviously murdered, I don't buy the whole "whistleblower" aspect of the case. I'm sure sketchy things were going down, and things were being covered up, but I don't buy him blowing the lid on anything. Just the fact that the police slapped suicide on this case screams that it was a sketchy place. Though I wonder since it was federal, then the police had to tread lightly?

He was going to work as normal, and no one said that he acted out of character or was acting weird, so why continue to go to work everyday if you're going to call out a scandal? And why the hell would he run around and tell the company who's causing the scandal that he's going to call them out? Why not just quit and do it? No one in their right mind would tell a hush hush Government company such as the NLO that they're going to expose them, Dave had to have known how deep that company ran.

My theories:

1.) He either seen something serious in one of the plants and reported it to his manager (no whistleblowing), and the manager either told him not to worry about it, but they fought about it, and Dave was killed to hush him up.

2.) The manager approached Dave and asked him to cover something up. Or told him about an incident that he wanted Dave to fix or hide. Which makes sense given the fact that he was headed to plant 4 instead of plant 8 where he was assigned. Upon reaching plant 4, perhaps he saw something that was too shoddy and had a problem with it, or the manager feared that Dave wouldn't keep his mouth shut and he was met with foul play.

I think whatever reason he was killed was something internal in the company that was happening that night. I don't think Dave was whistleblowing. I think it was something no one knew about, and was an emergency that they didn't want to get leaked. The talking to the manager in the truck before he reached his assigned plant makes me think that the manager approached Dave about something, and there was a conflict. Dave was a quiet guy who went to work everyday, I don't paint him as the kind of guy who was going to blow the lid off the company he was still working for. If he was killed out of work, I could see it, but not during his shift.

While I think that Dave was murdered, it would be interesting if he had committed suicide somewhere on the property. Upon discovering his body they threw it in the fern, so the police and reporters wouldn't dig into their business. If they reported a man was found dead on the lot, and with the previous scandal that was going on, then they would have every investigator, and reporter blowing their cover. Throw him in acid and don't say anything, they won't be on your back for a while

I just saw this one for the first time...

While I think that Dave was obviously murdered, I don't buy the whole "whistleblower" aspect of the case. I'm sure sketchy things were going down, and things were being covered up, but I don't buy him blowing the lid on anything. Just the fact that the police slapped suicide on this case screams that it was a sketchy place. Though I wonder since it was federal, then the police had to tread lightly?

He was going to work as normal, and no one said that he acted out of character or was acting weird, so why continue to go to work everyday if you're going to call out a scandal? And why the hell would he run around and tell the company who's causing the scandal that he's going to call them out? Why not just quit and do it? No one in their right mind would tell a hush hush Government company such as the NLO that they're going to expose them, Dave had to have known how deep that company ran.

My theories:

1.) He either seen something serious in one of the plants and reported it to his manager (no whistleblowing), and the manager either told him not to worry about it, but they fought about it, and Dave was killed to hush him up.

2.) The manager approached Dave and asked him to cover something up. Or told him about an incident that he wanted Dave to fix or hide. Which makes sense given the fact that he was headed to plant 4 instead of plant 8 where he was assigned. Upon reaching plant 4, perhaps he saw something that was too shoddy and had a problem with it, or the manager feared that Dave wouldn't keep his mouth shut and he was met with foul play.

I think whatever reason he was killed was something internal in the company that was happening that night. I don't think Dave was whistleblowing. I think it was something no one knew about, and was an emergency that they didn't want to get leaked. The talking to the manager in the truck before he reached his assigned plant makes me think that the manager approached Dave about something, and there was a conflict. Dave was a quiet guy who went to work everyday, I don't paint him as the kind of guy who was going to blow the lid off the company he was still working for. If he was killed out of work, I could see it, but not during his shift.
I think you're onto something here, Freakbook. I've often wondered about the whistleblower angle - I do believe that there was fear that Dave, who seemed to be dedicated to his job and a good man, could become a potential whistleblower, which might have been reason enough for someone to kill him.

It seems to me to be entirely in his character that if he thought something was wrong, he would speak to his supervisors as opposed to mentioning it to friends and family, probably assuming that if something was wrong, his bosses would share his integrity. Probably what happened was that he found out that they didn't. I believe he must have reported something and that conversation in the car was the last attempt to convince Dave to let something go. Maybe this happened rather fast and was a desperate, sloppy attempt to silence him. I imagine if it had been going on for a while, Dave would have received threats, gone back into a depression or shared some information with a close friend.

There may also be a possibility that Dave have participated in a few things that weren't exactly kosher or turned a blind eye, having been promised that things would eventually be fixed, only to realize that he'd been lied to. Now suddenly he didn't want to play ball anymore and he was letting someone know - change things now or I'm going to expose what we've done.

Either way, I feel that the potential for him to become a whistleblower probably led to his murder.

While I think it is important to consider all the possibilities on this site, it is amazing the scenarios that people come up with to make this a suicide. It did occur to me that maybe Dave was threatened and if he was worried about being harmed, might have beat them to it and harmed himself. But why choose such a horrible way to die, and a way that would make it almost impossible for his family to ever find him or bury him - he didn't seem capable of that kind of cruelty.

I also wonder if someone was threatened in LE, because clearly there are so many questions left unanswered.

My personal sense is that Dave Bocks was a hero and a martyr if his death led to the plant being closed. I feel that somehow he made it clear that he wasn't going to "play ball" and I believe that took courage.

I think you're onto something here, Freakbook. I've often wondered about the whistleblower angle - I do believe that there was fear that Dave, who seemed to be dedicated to his job and a good man, could become a potential whistleblower, which might have been reason enough for someone to kill him.

It seems to me to be entirely in his character that if he thought something was wrong, he would speak to his supervisors as opposed to mentioning it to friends and family, probably assuming that if something was wrong, his bosses would share his integrity. Probably what happened was that he found out that they didn't. I believe he must have reported something and that conversation in the car was the last attempt to convince Dave to let something go. Maybe this happened rather fast and was a desperate, sloppy attempt to silence him. I imagine if it had been going on for a while, Dave would have received threats, gone back into a depression or shared some information with a close friend.

There may also be a possibility that Dave have participated in a few things that weren't exactly kosher or turned a blind eye, having been promised that things would eventually be fixed, only to realize that he'd been lied to. Now suddenly he didn't want to play ball anymore and he was letting someone know - change things now or I'm going to expose what we've done.

Either way, I feel that the potential for him to become a whistleblower probably led to his murder.

I also wonder if someone was threatened in LE, because clearly there are so many questions left unanswered.

My personal sense is that Dave Bocks was a hero and a martyr if his death led to the plant being closed. I feel that somehow he made it clear that he wasn't going to "play ball" and I believe that took courage.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Also, you nailed the keyword that I failed to use, POTENTIAL whistleblower. I feel like "D.C. Cole" tried to link the scandal from NLO to Dave's death in usual conspiracy theorist fashion to drum up drama around the NLO and it caused misdirection so to speak. It's funny that none of his co-workers, or daughter had said that he was talking about exposing the company for releasing contaminants in the environment, just D.C. Cole. I believe he was killed for something going on at the plant, but not that. It's like you said, I think he was a potential whistleblower on something in the plant and was silenced. I do think he was probably at the wrong place at the wrong time, had concerns, reported it to his manager, and he was killed in fear of him possibly saying something. I think whatever it was happened that night. I think he went to his assigned plant, or was about to, seen something and went to his manager, or was asked to participate in something shady. I think it's also highly possible that he saw his manager doing something he shouldn't have been doing, and Dave confronted him about it. Dave was seen in his truck, and the manager was the one seen taking Dave's keys from his toolbox.

His daughter, and co-worker said that Dave had been talking about planning a trip to Florida with his children that he seemed excited about, and his co-worker had said that he bought a new lunchbox for work. This doesn't sound like a threatened, or worried man who was concerned about blowing the lid off of his company. I'm positive the reason he was killed was for something that was immediately going down. Everything is business as usual, and Dave was just killed out of the blue? This seemed like an urgent and pressing matter. Not one that has been bothering him for a while.

While I think it is important to consider all the possibilities on this site, it is amazing the scenarios that people come up with to make this a suicide. It did occur to me that maybe Dave was threatened and if he was worried about being harmed, might have beat them to it and harmed himself. But why choose such a horrible way to die, and a way that would make it almost impossible for his family to ever find him or bury him - he didn't seem capable of that kind of cruelty.

The one thing about suicide is that you can never answer for how a person chooses to go. I've heard of some extreme suicides, but it does happen. You never know what's going through someone's head at the time.

Now, something has been bothering me. I'm not one for the suicide angle, the keys and the 3 looped wire proves this was a murder. However, I have a question. Since Dave was a pipefitter, was the 3-looped wire something that he potentially used in his work?

Sorry to post something off-topic, but does anyone know how to receive notifications when someone has responded to your post or to the thread? I used to be able to do it but now I can't seem to figure it out. Thanks!

http://thinkingsidewayspodcast.com/

Thinking Sideways most recent podcast is about Dave Bocks, if anyone is interested.

http://thinkingsidewayspodcast.com/

Thinking Sideways most recent podcast is about Dave Bocks, if anyone is interested.

Wow. I'll have to listen to that one. Thanks!

I like the Thinking Sideways podcast trio. They've discussed many cases in great detail. They don't seem to have a very high opinion of 'Unsolved Mysteries' and 'Disappeared,' however. That's a bummer.

Don't really buy the him being murdered for being a whistleblower theory-the plant had already hit the headlines earlier that year & wasn't this his final shift there? It is morel likely if he was murdered it was over a woman or drugs-his going where he wasn't supposed to be might well have been a clandestine meeting of some sort, a fight ensued, he died accidentally & then to hide the evidence he was dumped in the furnace.

Never really believed Karen Silkwood was bumped off either-the plant was closed not long after her death, so why if you are going to close a plant would you engage somebody to bump her off?

I just saw this one for the first time...

While I think that Dave was obviously murdered, I don't buy the whole "whistleblower" aspect of the case. I'm sure sketchy things were going down, and things were being covered up, but I don't buy him blowing the lid on anything. Just the fact that the police slapped suicide on this case screams that it was a sketchy place. Though I wonder since it was federal, then the police had to tread lightly?

He was going to work as normal, and no one said that he acted out of character or was acting weird, so why continue to go to work everyday if you're going to call out a scandal? And why the hell would he run around and tell the company who's causing the scandal that he's going to call them out? Why not just quit and do it? No one in their right mind would tell a hush hush Government company such as the NLO that they're going to expose them, Dave had to have known how deep that company ran.

My theories:

1.) He either seen something serious in one of the plants and reported it to his manager (no whistleblowing), and the manager either told him not to worry about it, but they fought about it, and Dave was killed to hush him up.

2.) The manager approached Dave and asked him to cover something up. Or told him about an incident that he wanted Dave to fix or hide. Which makes sense given the fact that he was headed to plant 4 instead of plant 8 where he was assigned. Upon reaching plant 4, perhaps he saw something that was too shoddy and had a problem with it, or the manager feared that Dave wouldn't keep his mouth shut and he was met with foul play.

I think whatever reason he was killed was something internal in the company that was happening that night. I don't think Dave was whistleblowing. I think it was something no one knew about, and was an emergency that they didn't want to get leaked. The talking to the manager in the truck before he reached his assigned plant makes me think that the manager approached Dave about something, and there was a conflict. Dave was a quiet guy who went to work everyday, I don't paint him as the kind of guy who was going to blow the lid off the company he was still working for. If he was killed out of work, I could see it, but not during his shift.

I've thought about this case off and on since the last time I saw it (2yrs ago) and given what everyone else has said since my initial few posts, if you discount the whole conspiracy angle, then it's got to be something much more simple - drug dealing, money laundering or something along those lines.

I don't think it had anything to do with NLO or the work they did. Instead, a select group of Bocks' co-workers were involved in some shady stuff and possibly conducted illicit business on company property (or perhaps just talked about it on the clock). Given Dave's mood and the lack of any paranoia or suspicion on his part, either he overheard/saw something in passing, or someone made the decision to get rid of him just to eliminate any possible risk of discovery (his manage meeting with him either to a) ascertain how much he knew/whether he could keep his mouth shut or b) get a better handle on what Dave's routine for the night would be, so he could then inform the perpetrators)

Without any further information on a possible motive or said shady dealings, we're just left to speculate. I don't buy any possible suicide plan either - as others have said, tying oneself up and then going head first into a vat of molten steel just doesn't fit.

I've thought about this case off and on since the last time I saw it (2yrs ago) and given what everyone else has said since my initial few posts, if you discount the whole conspiracy angle, then it's got to be something much more simple - drug dealing, money laundering or something along those lines.

I don't think it had anything to do with NLO or the work they did. Instead, a select group of Bocks' co-workers were involved in some shady stuff and possibly conducted illicit business on company property (or perhaps just talked about it on the clock). Given Dave's mood and the lack of any paranoia or suspicion on his part, either he overheard/saw something in passing, or someone made the decision to get rid of him just to eliminate any possible risk of discovery (his manage meeting with him either to a) ascertain how much he knew/whether he could keep his mouth shut or b) get a better handle on what Dave's routine for the night would be, so he could then inform the perpetrators)

Without any further information on a possible motive or said shady dealings, we're just left to speculate. I don't buy any possible suicide plan either - as others have said, tying oneself up and then going head first into a vat of molten steel just doesn't fit.

Maybe. I agree that it could've been something non-work related such as drugs, money, etc. but if the sighting of Dave in his manager's truck was accurate, then it's possible that it was work related.

I'm not saying that Dave was going to call out a scandal against the NLO, because I think him whistle-blowing about his employer while working there doesn't make sense. Why go to the press about some shady business your employer is doing while you still work there?

I do think that his manager/co-worker could've made a mistake in one of the plants, or had an accident and came to Dave about it. Maybe you're right, and someone there was doing something illegal outside of work. Highly plausible. But I wouldn't doubt that something went awry in one of the plants and Dave was confronted by his manager in his truck. The truck sighting, if true, makes me wonder. If that was true, then it was an urgent matter, it was something that was about to hit the fan, or already did. The NLO was controversial, I'm sure things went wrong there all the time.

It does seem like he got involved in something shady whether it being work related or not, I cannot say. I know you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, and we didn't know Dave, but to me he seemed like a quiet, and meek guy. Really seemed like the type who went to work and came home. It was even said that everyone in the plant liked him. I really don't know.

this is the scariest UM segment IMO. The music, lighting, the parts where they discover the human remains in the furnace, the reenactment of him being lowered into the furnace, the part in the end when they mention his remains were too radioactive to be buried. Just creepy as hell

this is the scariest UM segment IMO. The music, lighting, the parts where they discover the human remains in the furnace, the reenactment of him being lowered into the furnace, the part in the end when they mention his remains were too radioactive to be buried. Just creepy as hell

Totally agreed. It's downright eerie. I think the creepiest thing to me is how it just seemed like a typical night, but he ended up in the furnace.

this is the scariest UM segment IMO. The music, lighting, the parts where they discover the human remains in the furnace, the reenactment of him being lowered into the furnace, the part in the end when they mention his remains were too radioactive to be buried. Just creepy as hell

It's top 3 for me, no question about it. Everything about it is perfectly executed.

I find one of the creepiest parts to be when Dave and a supervisor are having a conversation in a truck. Even though the night was muggy, the windows were rolled all the way up. This could have been a completely innocuous event. However, the narration and music make it 10 times creepier. And don't even get me started on the part with the temperature needle slowly moving to reflect the difference after his body ended up in the furnace. So eerie.

Just watched this again. People here say that they think his death was non-work related, and was for something smaller such as drugs, money, etc. Why the meeting with the manager in a truck with the windows rolled up if it was for something insignificant, and non-work related?

I can't help but feel that his death was work related. He worked at a shady place, who knows if he was asked to cover something illegal up, or fix one of his manager's mistakes and he said no and was attacked? Given the sighting of him in that truck, plus his death that same night, something happened between him and the manager. Maybe the manager was doing something illegal, or made a huge mistake and didn't want the higher-ups to find out and asked for Dave's help, but Dave declined?

If the co-worker wasn't lying then Dave was going to a plant he normally wouldn't have, or another area and lied about going to that plant to keep it secret. This makes me think that he was asked to go somewhere to patch something up, and it all went dark from there. That's if you believe the co-worker though. If you don't, then who knows.

Just watched this again. People here say that they think his death was non-work related, and was for something smaller such as drugs, money, etc. Why the meeting with the manager in a truck with the windows rolled up if it was for something insignificant, and non-work related?

I can't help but feel that his death was work related. He worked at a shady place, who knows if he was asked to cover something illegal up, or fix one of his manager's mistakes and he said no and was attacked? Given the sighting of him in that truck, plus his death that same night, something happened between him and the manager. Maybe the manager was doing something illegal, or made a huge mistake and didn't want the higher-ups to find out and asked for Dave's help, but Dave declined?

If the co-worker wasn't lying then Dave was going to a plant he normally wouldn't have, or another area and lied about going to that plant to keep it secret. This makes me think that he was asked to go somewhere to patch something up, and it all went dark from there. That's if you believe the co-worker though. If you don't, then who knows.

Only problem with that theory is if he was asked to cover something up then murdering him & sticking him in a furnace was obviously as it did going to bring even more national attention onto a company that had already had a load earlier in the year. Wasn't this guy about to leave this company for greener pastures?

Only problem with that theory is if he was asked to cover something up then murdering him & sticking him in a furnace was obviously as it did going to bring even more national attention onto a company that had already had a load earlier in the year. Wasn't this guy about to leave this company for greener pastures?

Covering something up for his manager, not the entire company. The entire company killing him doesn't make sense, they could just fire him and say that he's crazy. Which is why I kept talking about his manager. The fact that they met in his truck with the windows rolled up, is why I said his manager came to him personally, and didn't want the higher-ups to hear about it. It seemed like more for an urgent thing that his manager didn't want anyone to catch wind of hence the windows being rolled up.

I don't remember hearing anything about him leaving his job, so I don't know about that.


My previous post:

He worked at a shady place, who knows if he was asked to cover something illegal up, or fix one of his manager's mistakes and he said no and was attacked? Given the sighting of him in that truck, plus his death that same night, something happened between him and the manager. Maybe the manager was doing something illegal, or made a huge mistake and didn't want the higher-ups to find out and asked for Dave's help, but Dave declined?

Actually something else just struck me. His friend/co-worker who was interviewed in the segment had said that the same manager took Dave's keys from his toolbox and closed it.

I guess this makes the "truck eyewitness" a little more credible. They both saw the manager around Dave/Dave's items. He's obviously had something to do with it. It's anyone's guess what the manager talked to Dave about in the truck, but whatever it was is the reason he was killed.

Unfortunately the police just slapped "suicide" on his autopsy with encouragement from the Government, so I'm sure the manager was never thoroughly investigated.

....But what if Dave's death was an accident? What if he died while on the job due to hazardous conditions, or was just found dead in one of the plants?

Is it possible that the manager didn't kill Dave, but was indirectly responsible for his death? Maybe there was a leak, or spill somewhere in one of the plants, and the manager came to Dave privately asking for his help because he didn't want to contact the higher ups? Dave goes to the plant to help out his manager but was killed while doing the job? Perhaps there was a hazardous accident or mistake made, and his manager couldn't go to anyone else? Dave dies while on the job, but the manager was already hush hush about the incident, so if he lets out that Dave died doing something to help him fix an incident the upper management didn't know about then he'd be gone for sure. So he throws Dave in the pit to cover his own ass?

I can understand the police saying they had no proof of foul play BUT circumstantially it was pretty obvious.

1) Who's going to jump into a 1300 degree oven? I don't care how depressed you are, there's a lot less traumatic ways to commit suicide.

2) The stainless steal threelopped wire. Looks like he was lowered into the furnace which would mean someone else lowered him in.

3) His coworkers assertion that his keys , which were later found in the furnace, were in his tool box more than 24hrs after the drop in temperature in the furnance was registered and after he was reported missing. The coworker had no reason to lie. Also, he said his supervisor took his eyes out of Daves toolbox. Was the supervisor even questioned about that by police?

That all but makes suicide/an accident all but unbelievable.

Actually something else just struck me. His friend/co-worker who was interviewed in the segment had said that the same manager took Dave's keys from his toolbox and closed it.

I guess this makes the "truck eyewitness" a little more credible. They both saw the manager around Dave/Dave's items. He's obviously had something to do with it. It's anyone's guess what the manager talked to Dave about in the truck, but whatever it was is the reason he was killed.

Unfortunately the police just slapped "suicide" on his autopsy with encouragement from the Government, so I'm sure the manager was never thoroughly investigated.

....But what if Dave's death was an accident? What if he died while on the job due to hazardous conditions, or was just found dead in one of the plants?

Is it possible that the manager didn't kill Dave, but was indirectly responsible for his death? Maybe there was a leak, or spill somewhere in one of the plants, and the manager came to Dave privately asking for his help because he didn't want to contact the higher ups? Dave goes to the plant to help out his manager but was killed while doing the job? Perhaps there was a hazardous accident or mistake made, and his manager couldn't go to anyone else? Dave dies while on the job, but the manager was already hush hush about the incident, so if he lets out that Dave died doing something to help him fix an incident the upper management didn't know about then he'd be gone for sure. So he throws Dave in the pit to cover his own ass?

The manager somehow making a big mistake and then killing Dave to cover his ass definitely makes sense to me.

Going back to your question of why he and Dave met in his truck if it was something small time like drugs or whatever, I'd suggest that the manager could've either been in on whatever it was directly or indirectly

Going back to your question of why he and Dave met in his truck if it was something small time like drugs or whatever, I'd suggest that the manager could've either been in on whatever it was directly or indirectly

Yeah, I'm going to agree that it was highly plausible it could've been non-work related (drugs, etc). You said previously that maybe someone working there was doing something illegal on the property such as selling drugs, etc, that wasn't related to work, but was still illegal makes the most sense.

Maybe his manager was drug selling, or selling/stealing company materials and Dave caught him/them in the act. Whatever it was, I'm sure the manager was in on it.

Who the hell jumps into a furnace to comitt suicide?!

Who the hell jumps into a furnace to comitt suicide?!

Somebody with mental health issues & the opportunity.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/2865527

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2004-08-23/news/0408230168_1_murder-suicide-furnace-examiner

http://strangeco.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/the-lady-and-furnace.html

Somebody with mental health issues & the opportunity.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/2865527

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2004-08-23/news/0408230168_1_murder-suicide-furnace-examiner

http://strangeco.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/the-lady-and-furnace.html



Interesting


Still the fact he would probably need help to open that furnace and lower himself down, leads me to
Believe this was not suicide

Somebody with mental health issues & the opportunity.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/2865527

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2004-08-23/news/0408230168_1_murder-suicide-furnace-examiner

http://strangeco.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/the-lady-and-furnace.html

The only thing stopping me from believing it was a suicide is the 3-way tie, and his set of keys. If someone wanted to take their life bad enough, I wouldn't rule them out of jumping in a furnace. It seems extreme, but you never know.

Again though, the thing that points to foul play and that is very hard to explain away is Dave Box's keys. I don't think his friend had any reason to lie. If his supervisor closed his box and removed his keys....why would they end up in the furnance? This was 24hours after the temperature drop and after he was last seen. Pretty hard to explain unless you don't believe his friend.

Again though, the thing that points to foul play and that is very hard to explain away is Dave Box's keys. I don't think his friend had any reason to lie. If his supervisor closed his box and removed his keys....why would they end up in the furnance? This was 24hours after the temperature drop and after he was last seen. Pretty hard to explain unless you don't believe his friend.

That, and the 3-way tie.

I believe his friend. Two employees have sighted the manager with Dave, and Dave's items. I believe both of them. Dave was murdered.

Unless Dave committed suicide elsewhere/was found dead, and the manager put him, and his keys in the furnace hoping no one would find out.

A part of me thinks that Dave died accidentally on the job, but was found and placed in the furnace so it wouldn't come back on the company.

That, and the 3-way tie.

I believe his friend. Two employees have sighted the manager with Dave, and Dave's items. I believe both of them. Dave was murdered.

Unless Dave committed suicide elsewhere/was found dead, and the manager put him, and his keys in the furnace hoping no one would find out.

A part of me thinks that Dave died accidentally on the job, but was found and placed in the furnace so it wouldn't come back on the company.

Maybe..but I doubt a supervisor of a plant is going to risk serious jail time to not file an accidental death report. I mean accidents in factories aren't unheard of. I mean to me at least, covering up an accidental death and making it look suspicious doesn't make sense

Maybe..but I doubt a supervisor of a plant is going to risk serious jail time to not file an accidental death report. I mean accidents in factories aren't unheard of.

Good point. However, my theory of this being an accident covered up is linked to Dave's sighting in his manager's truck. If Dave was asked to fix an accident on the manager's behalf that was out of protocol then it makes sense.

It's possible the manager screwed up in one of the plants big time, and came to Dave to fix it because Dave was a quiet, meek guy who he thought wouldn't say anything. Maybe fixing this accident Dave died somehow, but the manager couldn't tell the authorities or the company about the screw up because it was his fault and Dave's death would come back to him plus the accident. This could be a reason why he threw Dave in the furnace.

covering up an accidental death and making it look suspicious doesn't make sense

It does if you didn't know you were looking suspicious. It's obvious the manager (if he did it) was sloppy. He even let himself be seen taking Dave's keys. However, he probably overestimated the damage the furnace would have done to Dave's remains and items. If the worker didn't smell something odd in the furnace, then who knows if the furnace would've ever been checked.

So many comments of disbelief about jumping into that furnace to commit suicide in such a horrifying fashion, which I get, but then again as others mentioned earlier in the thread, as suicides go it would probably be relatively painless since 1300 degrees would presumably vaporize a body on impact. It's terrible to think about because, well, fire, but something like slicing your own wrists is way more unimaginable to me personally.

Anyway, like most, I also lean more towards foul play, and am sad that it will never be solved. I wish we knew if the supposed witness who refused to appear on camera had any credibility regarding the truck argument, since so much of the speculation hinges on that supposed argument. I'm definitely dubious, since (as previously mentioned in the thread) the actual person who rode in to work with Dave nightly went on national TV and accused the company of murder without apparent fear of repercussion. But who knows.

It does seem like if Dave were important enough to come forward with information that would bring down the entire company, multiple people would have known that. Surely if he were about to blow the lid off something so big, he would have mentioned *something* to a coworker, friend, or family member, even in vague terms. Surely some other coworkers would have known exactly what he was killed for. Or at least known Dave to be a pot-stirrer, ambitious, or someone who regularly dealt with the higher-ups in the company. As it stands, or at least as presented in the segment, he came off more as just a normal employee expecting a night like any other. That's why I'm not so sure about the whistleblower scenario. This almost seems more sudden and less grandiose.

Sad case.

Cheers,
Matt

After rewatching this segment recently, I have to admit that the lone source for foul play (besides his daughter who says he never would have committed suicide) in the segment is DC Cole. And he's the one who suggests the foul play scenario in the re-enactment. UM usually did a good job with their re-enactments, but here I think they did a disservice. They touted a guy who is known for crazy conspiracies that target the government (he even says as much at the beginning of the segment), and he was the only one pushing that Bocks was murdered because he was a whistle blower.

But how could he have known this? I think it was speculative based off of the actual controversy from the plant releasing toxic dust into the atmosphere. No one else in the segment implied anything remotely close to foul play, besides one former employee who seemed to think that a suicide or accident would have been too impossible to believe.

After rewatching this segment recently, I have to admit that the lone source for foul play (besides his daughter who says he never would have committed suicide) in the segment is DC Cole. And he's the one who suggests the foul play scenario in the re-enactment. UM usually did a good job with their re-enactments, but here I think they did a disservice. They touted a guy who is known for crazy conspiracies that target the government (he even says as much at the beginning of the segment), and he was the only one pushing that Bocks was murdered because he was a whistle blower.

But how could he have known this? I think it was speculative based off of the actual controversy from the plant releasing toxic dust into the atmosphere. No one else in the segment implied anything remotely close to foul play, besides one former employee who seemed to think that a suicide or accident would have been too impossible to believe.

We must be watching similar stuff because I just saw this again recently. I was surprised how weak the evidence was for the whistle blower and murder theory.

I'd be content saying suicide. The only thing that gives me pause is the strange manner of death. It's hard to imagine someone intentionally jumping into that stuff.

A part of me wondered if maybe Bocks could have fallen in accidentally or somehow died accidentally elsewhere in the plant and his body thrown in. Perhaps NLO wanted this covered up and written off to avoid litigation.

I also think a lot of folks are probably content labeling this a murder because NLO was apparently involved in other shady activities. Kind of a guilt by association. While that may be true, it doesn't automatically make them guilty of murder with respect to Dave Bocks.

I can't remember but was the lid to the furnace opened or closed?

After rewatching this segment recently, I have to admit that the lone source for foul play (besides his daughter who says he never would have committed suicide) in the segment is DC Cole. And he's the one who suggests the foul play scenario in the re-enactment. UM usually did a good job with their re-enactments, but here I think they did a disservice. They touted a guy who is known for crazy conspiracies that target the government (he even says as much at the beginning of the segment), and he was the only one pushing that Bocks was murdered because he was a whistle blower.

But how could he have known this? I think it was speculative based off of the actual controversy from the plant releasing toxic dust into the atmosphere. No one else in the segment implied anything remotely close to foul play, besides one former employee who seemed to think that a suicide or accident would have been too impossible to believe.

But DC Cole's ya boy! :lol:

I never thought there was a convincing argument that Bocks was about to be a whistleblower, either. However, I have a hard time believing suicide due to the gruesome, extremely painful, unconventional method, and there's hardly any evidence at all to suggest homicide. For that reason, I tend to think accident with a good helping of company negligence--which tends to lend itself to perceptions of guilt for even more insidious things.

The only thing that bothers me is that loop of wire. That was kind of strange, but who's to say what purpose that wire actually served. For all we know, it could have secured some kind of items or equipment within the plant and incidentally fell in with Bocks.

Yes the loop wire for me proves he was murdered.

For that reason, I tend to think accident with a good helping of company negligence--which tends to lend itself to perceptions of guilt for even more insidious things.

The only thing that bothers me is that loop of wire. That was kind of strange, but who's to say what purpose that wire actually served. For all we know, it could have secured some kind of items or equipment within the plant and incidentally fell in with Bocks.

That's an excellent theory. Bocks falls in due to negligent plant procedures (no one else was in there with him, no safety precautions, etc.) and the company is content with not pushing an investigation further. And that loop of wire...could it have been a part of some sort of safety harness? I would imagine if one had to work on top or near the top of this furnace you would need some sort of harness to prevent you from falling in.

I think the looped wire was used to bind his wrists and ankles to each other before he was thrown in or lowered into the furnace.

Probably a murder, due to the use of looped wire to bind his wrists and ankles. Unless, he arranged for someone to help him destroy his own body afterwards, which would be highly unlikely (unless to claim an accidental death for insurance claims for his family), or he was found dead and people at the plant panicked, destroyed the body, and picked his keys. The latter theory for suicide is more likely than the former and brings reasonable doubt. At the least, the looped wire is clear evidence that, in either case, a third person or people were involved.

We can only surmise that the furnace itself is the cause of death here in absence of evidence of other causes of death, but it does not mean it is necessarily the cause of death for either murder or suicide. It is also why, most probably, there was no criminal prosecution. That being said, I personally 60% believe that Dave was murdered because, in my mind, it's the simplest theory: Why would co-workers of his find his body and pick him up, tie him down, sink him in the furnace, and throw the keys in? As events demonstrated this is more a public relations' nightmare for everyone than just call 911 and report his suicide... that said, panicking people can do a lot of stupid stuff.

The N.L.O. and whistleblower theory might be a red herring, however. It's the most obvious-looking motive, but if it was murder Dave could have been killed for other reasons related to the work site (e.g. witnessing a drug transaction or something like that).

It is an obvious murder, due to the use of looped wire to bind his wrists and ankles.

The N.L.O. and whistleblower theory might be a red herring, however. It's the most obvious-looking motive, but Dave could have been killed for other reasons related to the work site (e.g. witnessing a drug transaction or something like that).

Bocks was last seen by a coworker walking towards Plant 4 at approximately 1 or 2 in the morning. He was assigned to work Plant 8, but was walking, alone, to Plant 4. At 5:15 a.m. is when the temperature in the furnace (located in Plant 6) dipped. This is when Bocks entered the furnace. If this was a murder, why wouldn't his killer/s dump his body in the furnace located in the plant where he was assigned to work to make his death seem like an accident? There was also an eyewitness who said he was walking towards Plant 4.

This (https://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/15/us/us-for-decades-let-uranium-leak-at-weapon-plant.html?pagewanted=all) article goes into detail about how the plant was under-funded, as well as the fact that the plants various problems (including the leaking of uranium into the air) was common knowledge long before Bocks's death.

According to this link on the closure of the plant, it was actually information the DOE itself reported in 1984 resulting in a concerned citizens' group formation that hastened the closure of Fernald. Bocks' death is curiously omitted from the story, but I'd have to consider that this might not have been the original event that sparked plant closure efforts--although I kind of tend to doubt it personally.

https://www.lm.doe.gov/land/sites/oh/fernald_orig/50th/secr.htm

The plant continued to operate well into 1986 under its NLO contract, and that year two more incidents at the plant caught national media attention--almost undoubtedly inspired by the Chernobyl disaster that April. It wasn't until two years later in 1988 that the DOE awarded the operation contract to Westinghouse, and knowing what I know about government contracts in facilities similar to Fernald, that usually indicates there are plans to either change fundamental operations of the facility, or close it down. In this case, it was the latter. Westinghouse made a show of transparency and information-sharing on the public relations front while implementing shut-down operations internally. A few years later, another contract was awarded to a company to conduct cleanup operations.

Without the benefit of being around in that part of Ohio in 1984, what I think happened is that Bocks' death made the evening news. I think this spurred either a number of private citizens and/or local media to digging (figuratively, of course) around Fernald, and those individuals may have come across DOE information that may have been sitting there, so to speak, all along.

I also don't find it too difficult to believe that there may have existed a number of environmentally conscious people in that area who may have made it their business to draw attention to this information, and they simply weren't particularly successful in this effort UNTIL Bocks' death became public knowledge.

In short, although I do believe Bocks' death likely turned broad public attention to Fernald:

1. the DOE reported information concerning environmental contamination in that same year, and there is no way to determine which event came first without further information, and
2. American public perception of "nukes" after 40 years of the Cold War and at least one highly frightening power plant incident in 1979 was rather negative, and often the target of environmental groups--many of them specifically anti-nuclear, and finally,
3. there exists no evidence to suggest Dave Bocks ever knew any specific thing upon which he intended to go public,

I have to conclude that Bocks' death was incidental to Fernald, rather than part of a murderous conspiracy on the plant's part--which would've implicated National Lead of Ohio (which, according to the link Cars posted above, adamantly reported deficiencies to the AEC throughout the '50s and '60s, which the AEC apparently and unsurprisingly ignored at the height of the Cold War) as well as the DOE. I simply find that difficult to believe. What I find far more likely to believe is a dwindling arms race and a new American environmental consciousness, both born in the 1970s, which contributed to decreased funding for facilities such as Fernald, which in turn contributed to deferred maintenance and corner-cutting, which in turn contributed to the accidental death of Dave Bocks.

I also found this comment on UM's website by a Raoul Kopecknie that I thought made several salient points:

Ok, Nowhere do I find a decent fact filled version of this man’s death. Everyone assumes it was murder, but there are ZERO pictures of the furnace, the area around it, or the Flue. More importantly, IS THERE ANY possibility he could have fallen in? How did the furnace exhaust?

As for the keys, has it occurred to anyone that he had two sets of keys? One for his home and auto, that could have been left on his toolbox, and a second set of keys to the plant? The article never addresses this, nor what happened to the set of keys with his tool box.

As for getting ready to expose the plant, Karen Silkwood style, this was a DOE facility. The man had worked there for several years and was not the sort to make waves. Being a federal facility, the Federal government would have had many avenues of recourse other than a nefarious murder to keep him quite, for example non disclosure and National Security laws which would have left him in the slammer for life.

Additionally, how much production was lost as the furnace had to be shut down for several days due to the remains being found. DOE sites also have really nasty acids that would dissolve a body, and contaminated drums that will NOT be touched for hundreds or thousands of years. And you think they would dispose of a body in a furnace?

The man worked the night shift. No doubt he was comfortable, likely too comfortable with acting alone when problems presented themselves. This happened in 1984, when I don’t think lock out /tag out precautions were exactly in widespread use. . .

Occam’s razor. . The simplest explanation is probably the truth. A major conspiracy it not.

https://unsolved.com/gallery/dave-bocks/

Some other thoughts I had about this case when I was driving home yesterday:

1. My father is a pipefitter in a large production plant, like Bocks was. Often, pipefitters must work in areas that are difficult to access, such as near ceilings, up along walls, or in very tight quarters. I thought that perhaps Bocks may have had a job in an area that required climbing, and either didn't take safety precautions or wasn't afforded the personnel nor the equipment to take safety precautions (such as working with a buddy, or using a safety harness system), and subsequently fell into the furnace.

2. I don't know much about orthopedic surgical procedures because I've never worked in that specialty, but I what I do know is that they tend to use a lot of hardware such as plates, screws, and surgical wire--which is usually made of titanium or stainless steel. What I'm wondering is how large the "wire loop" was, and whether Bocks had ever had a surgical procedure that would've warranted using stainless steel wire--and enough wire for somebody to reasonably believe one's feet could be bound with it. I would surmise that would almost certainly limit it to a major orthopedic procedure.

According to Wikipedia, Plant 6, where Bocks was found, was known as the Metals Fabrication Plant. They describe the process of what went on with regards to the furnaces in this plant:

Uranium ingots were charged into an automated ingot preheat furnace where they were lowered into a Li2CO3-K2CO3 molten salt to be heated to 1,150–1,200 °F before being discharged singly to the mill table. The ingot was passed back and forth through the blooming mill until it was reduced to an oval billet approximately 2" to 2½". The ends of the billet were then cut off by a cropping shear before it was pushed into an equalizing furnace. The billet was reheated to 1,150–1,200 °F in the equalizing furnace and was then discharged into the finishing mill. The finishing mill consists of six stands that reduce the rod to the final diameter of 1.43" for Hanford rods, and 1.12" for Savannah River rods.

The rods were cut into 22-foot lengths as they leave the last stand by means of a flying shear. The Savannah rods were air cooled to room temperature on the cooling bed and then were cold straightened in a Medart Straightener. Rods to be beta heat treated by-pass the cooling bed and were lifted into the beta heat treating furnace by means of a hoist, to be held at 1,320–1,365 °F for 11–20 minutes and then quenched in cold water. After quenching, these rods were conveyed to the Medart straightener for straightening.

My guess would be that the heat treating furnace was the one he fell into. You needed to use a hoist to lift these 22 ft. rods into the furnace. I think this would mean that this furnace had to have an opening for a person to fall in, if rods could be hoisted up and entered into the furnace. The temperature of that furnace (kept at 1320-1365) also backs up what was said in this (https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/101381250/) article:

The oven is a large tank of molten salt heated to more than 1,300 degrees. The furnace is so hot a human body would have been virtually consumed by it, police said.

According to UM, only maintenance workers and security worked the overnight shifts, and no production was going on. His job was to inspect and maintain the equipment throughout the plant. If Bocks was working alone in plant 6, I don't see this as anything other than a horrible workplace accident. And I'm not sure how much (if any) information he would have known about the radioactive dust being leaked into the air, since his shift was during the time that production was shut down.

According to Wikipedia, Plant 6, where Bocks was found, was known as the Metals Fabrication Plant. They describe the process of what went on with regards to the furnaces in this plant:



My guess would be that the heat treating furnace was the one he fell into. You needed to use a hoist to lift these 22 ft. rods into the furnace. I think this would mean that this furnace had to have an opening for a person to fall in, if rods could be hoisted up and entered into the furnace. The temperature of that furnace (kept at 1320-1365) also backs up what was said in this (https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/101381250/) article:



According to UM, only maintenance workers and security worked the overnight shifts, and no production was going on. His job was to inspect and maintain the equipment throughout the plant. If Bocks was working alone in plant 6, I don't see this as anything other than a horrible workplace accident. And I'm not sure how much (if any) information he would have known about the radioactive dust being leaked into the air, since his shift was during the time that production was shut down.

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that this is likely exactly what happened, based on what we've talked about over the past few days or so.

A few outliers:

-The keys, and Harry Easterling seeing them in the toolbox. I believe someone mentioned maybe a page or so back that it's not implausible that Bocks perhaps carried two sets of keys--one for his home and personal items such as his toolbox, and perhaps a set of work keys for buildings around the plant--which likely wouldn't have been secured by electronic systems in an underfunded manufacturing plant in mid-80s Ohio. I can't remember the specifics of the keys, if any, mentioned in the segment. I might have to go back and re-watch later on today.

-freakbook brought up something I was thinking about today: was there a lid on that furnace, and if so, why wasn't it closed during non-production hours? Doesn't seem particularly safe, but I wouldn't be shocked to learn it might've been a routine practice--maybe a work-around or whatever.

I know I keep bringing up that wire loop, but if that furnace was routinely left open--during both production and shut-down hours--it's not really a stretch to consider that it may have fallen in either well before or after Bocks wound up in there, and could be completely unrelated to the case.

-The conversation in the truck with the supervisor: there is no way to determine, if that event actually occurred (and it doesn't seem terribly unreasonable that it could have), what that discussion was about. I always felt UM tried to present this as evidence that Bocks and his supervisor were discussing something so serious that one, the other, or both wanted to be free of eavesdropping. To be frank, personnel and pay issues are often matters one typically doesn't want others hearing about. To attempt to connect this event into some kind of whistleblower narrative is a little on the disingenuous side, given what little information is known.

I think Dave was murdered, or had an accident and was disposed of in the furnace. The 3-way tie proves that he was bounded at one point. I feel like he was placed in the furnace and someone tried to burn him as fast as possible.

I'm not buying into the whole NLO thing, but there could've been a dispute or perhaps he slipped and had an accident and they didn't want to be liable?

It's hard to say he fell in, because if the lid was closed then he would've been found on top.

Random six-degrees type thing: I found one of Bocks' sons online and his listed hometown is Mt Orab, OH--of Permon Gilbert segment fame.

Random six-degrees type thing: I found one of Bocks' sons online and his listed hometown is Mt Orab, OH--of Permon Gilbert segment fame.

thank you for this. truly only a blessed few human beings can take as much joy from knowing this piece of information as you and i can.

According to UM, only maintenance workers and security worked the overnight shifts, and no production was going on. His job was to inspect and maintain the equipment throughout the plant. If Bocks was working alone in plant 6, I don't see this as anything other than a horrible workplace accident. And I'm not sure how much (if any) information he would have known about the radioactive dust being leaked into the air, since his shift was during the time that production was shut down.

An accident would definitely fit Occam's Razor in this case and I'd be inclined to agree............if it weren't for the oddly shaped wire looped three ways. To me, that right there points to either suicide or murder.

I've gone a different way completely on the wire loop. Since I first saw the segment years ago, I suppose I just took for granted securing Bocks' feet had to be what that wire was for, because that's the scenario UM presented without offering any other possible explanation.

In truth, there may be other reasons that wire loop was found in there that may have had nothing to do with hoisting Bocks. Without seeing photographs of the actual wire loop, or knowing how wire may have been sometimes used in the plant, or even what kind of wire it actually was, I'm not willing to follow UM right to that spot anymore. It's my favorite show, but I'd be the first to acknowledge that it had an occasional annoying habit of presenting some aspects of a story more mysterious or insidious than they actually were.

I've gone a different way completely on the wire loop. Since I first saw the segment years ago, I suppose I just took for granted securing Bocks' feet had to be what that wire was for, because that's the scenario UM presented without offering any other possible explanation.

In truth, there may be other reasons that wire loop was found in there that may have had nothing to do with hoisting Bocks. Without seeing photographs of the actual wire loop, or knowing how wire may have been sometimes used in the plant, or even what kind of wire it actually was, I'm not willing to follow UM right to that spot anymore. It's my favorite show, but I'd be the first to acknowledge that it had an occasional annoying habit of presenting some aspects of a story more mysterious or insidious than they actually were.

Ditto. I used to be convinced the wire was the smoking gun, but now... not so much. I’m not saying it wasn’t used to tie him up, but it’s no sure thing. Some possibilities:
a) It was dropped in there by someone else unrelated to Bocks
b) Bocks used it to secure tools or materials together for his job
c) It was just a roll of wire Bocks used for his job

Honestly, if you are going to secure someone, wire would be one of my last choices. Tape, rope, etc. are way easier to use. Wire would have to be of a thick enough gauge to be effective, but the thicker it gets the harder it is to use. If it was used on Bocks, I would guess he was already unconscious and it was used to hoist him. That would probably require multiple people.

I’m still on the fence on this one, but I used to be 100% murder (when I was younger and more impressionable). The whole scene is just so odd. I could certainly believe it was an accident, but what was he doing in that section of the plant? I don’t think that has ever been explained.

An accident would definitely fit Occam's Razor in this case and I'd be inclined to agree............if it weren't for the oddly shaped wire looped three ways. To me, that right there points to either suicide or murder.

But it just as easily could have been some sort of safety harness or other work related item that slipped in when he fell. UM did a great segment on this case, but I feel like they over did the conspiracy whistle blower theory, which was presented solely by DC Cole, a guy who had no connections to the plant. No one could come up with any reason as to who would want Bocks dead and why.

But it just as easily could have been some sort of safety harness or other work related item that slipped in when he fell. UM did a great segment on this case, but I feel like they over did the conspiracy whistle blower theory, which was presented solely by DC Cole, a guy who had no connections to the plant. No one could come up with any reason as to who would want Bocks dead and why.

Oh I think the conspiracy angle is pretty far-fetched at this point, I'm not proposing anything along those lines. The only reason I bring the wire up again though is because no explanation for it or what Bocks was doing with it, has ever come up.

That wire could have been in there for months before Dave died. Who knows? Like Meg said, UM presented it as nefariously purposed, but maybe it was simply wire that tied the pipe lowered into the furnace. “Looped, therefore definitely used to tie hands and feet” is quite an assumption.

We’ll never know what happened, and it drives me crazy.

Cheers,
Matt

https://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/15/us/us-for-decades-let-uranium-leak-at-weapon-plant.html

I don't know if this has been shared already, and if it has, I apologize, but I've provided a link to an article in the New York Times that was pretty interesting. The article states at the very bottom that "in 1984, the failure of a dust collector went undetected for about three months, releasing an undetermined amount of uranium into the air."

The uranium scandal happened in the fall of 1984. If you count back three months, you'd be in the summer of 1984, which is when Bocks disappeared. I don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility that Bocks discovered the leak on his last shift, informed his supervisor, and was told to keep quiet. Bocks, of course, refused, which is why he was murdered. The leak was left alone until it couldn't be kept under wraps any longer.

Such an injustice that no one was ever charged with his murder

I just listened to RobinW's "The Trail Went Cold" podcast on this case. (Great job, Robin -- I thought you covered this very well.)

I had never given much thought to the accident theory, but this does now make the most sense to me. I can't believe it was suicide. This has nothing to do with Dave Bocks's state of mind, but everything to due with the manner of death. I realize people have committed suicide in other bizarre and painful ways, however I can't see him intentionally doing it in such a horrific way. For the reasons Robin outlined in his podcast, I don't see enough evidence for murder. The motive is sketchy at best, and the method seems a bit much as well. I think too much was made about the conversation with the supervisor in the car and about Bocks working at a different plant.

He may have just been checking on something and at that time of the morning, he may have been tired and just made a casual mistake which caused him to slip into the hot liquid. As others have posted before, there are many other possible explanations for the wire which don't involve binding Bocks. (It's also possible he was bound with something else like tape or rope that melted in the furnace.) It's also possible that he became incapacitated from fumes or heat or something else and then fell into the furnace. The fact that his radio and keys and everything else were on him leads me to think he fell in.

I'm not completely ruling out murder in this case. I just don't see a clear-cut case of Bocks being eliminated for something he knew or saw.

This is another case where UM shamelessly pushed a conspiracy angle right from the start. Ratings were going down at that time so this was a good story to do it with.

The whistleblower theory is extremely far fetched as this was a government facility and maintenance techs like Bocks himself were responsible for the leaking ventilation systems. Civilian middle management killing a tech to cover up poor routine maintenance will look really bad under government oversight; it would’ve been much easier to just fire somebody.

Regarding the looped wire — we have no idea if it was big enough to hoist a man by the ankles or whatever, we don’t know how much weight it could hold. As some people mentioned up thread, it could have been part of the material that normally goes in the furnace or it could have been something that Dave Bocks had on his person, or it could have been something that fell in the furnace months earlier.

Also, the fact that his job required him to work above the furnaces shows a real possibility of of accidents happening, which is what I’m going with. I gotta admit to getting an impression of Bocks as kind of a screw up in general; if so then perhaps he didn’t take safety precautions seriously that night.

A shame for his family. His daughter was attractive even with that 80s hair despite this segment originally airing in like 1994.

I gotta admit to getting an impression of Bocks as kind of a screw up in general; if so then perhaps he didn’t take safety precautions seriously that night.

A shame for his family. His daughter was attractive even with that 80s hair despite this segment originally airing in like 1994.

Your posts around here are....interesting.

I am curious how you came to that conclusion, as I have watched this segment hundreds of times and never once got that impression. We have seen some screwy people on UM for sure but I never thought Dave Bocks was one of them.

Your posts around here are....interesting.

I am curious how you came to that conclusion, as I have watched this segment hundreds of times and never once got that impression. We have seen some screwy people on UM for sure but I never thought Dave Bocks was one of them.

Same. Super left-field.

DC Cole, though..

Your posts around here are....interesting.

I am curious how you came to that conclusion, as I have watched this segment hundreds of times and never once got that impression. We have seen some screwy people on UM for sure but I never thought Dave Bocks was one of them.Maybe “screwup” isn’t the right word. There are more impolite words that are more appropriate.

But what I was getting at was according to the background info on Bocks he was divorced, had attempted suicide and his coworkers described him as kind of withdrawn. He was probably an unstable sadsack and those people are usually s**t-magnets.

Maybe “screwup” isn’t the right word. There are more impolite words that are more appropriate.

But what I was getting at was according to the background info on Bocks he was divorced, had attempted suicide and his coworkers described him as kind of withdrawn. He was probably an unstable sadsack and those people are usually s**t-magnets.

The way you talk about mental health is absolutely revolting. You should be ashamed of yourself. Dick.

Have you guys been listening to Accused? It's been freaking phenomenal, and after today's episode I think she's about to solve this case. Amazing.

Cheers,
Matt