Does any one remember the story where the lady was found dead in the yard of an abandoned house? They said that hew autopsy report showed that she was OD on drugs... This case was on the Bizarre Murder set and I watched it last night. .It really was a strange one.. personally I think that she had multiple personalities and that she really was stalking and attacking herself.. this was a rather strange case! But in this rare case

I am very familiar with the case and have read both books on it. I would highly recommend "The Deaths of Cindy James" by Neal Hall (he was the reporter interviewed in the segment. Personally I don't think Cindy could have done all those things to herself especially kill herself in that manner but admittedly there are a lot of questions in that case that are no answers to. You can find that book on the web for next to nothing.

Crys

I feel what you are saying but again don't you think that it is possible that she was harassing herself.. There was never a suspect, never a fingerprint and most of the times that she was attacked it was always either when someone was coming over or already at house. In my opinion I believe that she was solely responsible until other evidence proves differently then I will reserve judgment

Here is an old link from about 4 months ago where we discussed this case. You might be interested in reading others opinions.

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=147064

Being very knowledgable about this case, having read both boths and seeing the UM segment countless times I can say with absolute certainty that I am torn on how she died. There were many times where she didn't act like a normal victim would act but there were other instances where it seemed like she couldn't be responsible. I truly think this will forever be an unsolved mystery....if you'll pardon the expression.

Mr. Clairvoyant, I understand what you're saying. I do think it is suspicious that no one was ever captured but the book goes into more detail about it. There are quite a few people who claim to be around when she received some of the phone calls. Also her when the "harassment" started she had recently become separated from her husband who by the books accounts seemed to be a psycho. I'm actually suprised UM didn't bring him up. It just seems like such a bizarre thing to do to yourself, strangle yourself by tying nylon's tightly around your neck and what about the knife that was put through her hand all the way into the carpet. I'm not saying she couldn't have done that to herself but man she would have to be seriously deranged. I think the thing that most made me think that she wasn't responsible for everything done to her was how she died. To have been injected with massive amounts of those drugs but they found no needles anywhere near her body and she wouldn't have had much time to "hog tie" herself before the drugs kicked in. (Btw I think her ex-husband was a doctor and would have access to drugs as I also understand Cindy was a nurse and would have probably had the same access). I get so aggravated when Neal Hall claims that a "knot specialist" came in and did it in minimal time. As far as I know Cindy James was not a knot specialist. In fact I would venture to say that the majority of us don't know how to hog tie ourselves. So do you think she was the one who eventually ended her own life?

There's no question that Cindy James suffered from severe mental problems the question is did she do this to herself as a result from her mental problems or did the fact that someone else was stalking her result into her developing mental problems. I do enjoy discussing this case with you as its one of more fascinating ones.

Dynoguy - Since you have read the books what do you think about Cindy's ex? Do you think he could have responsible for some of the stalking?

Dynoguy - Since you have read the books what do you think about Cindy's ex? Do you think he could have responsible for some of the stalking?

Roy Makepeace was an odd fellow but not a killer in my mind. Like I said in the other link, he never once struck me as being behind Cindy's terror. While the timing of Cindy and Roy's seperation may seem suspicious to some (happening just 3 months before the threatening phone calls began) I just don't see it being relevent since they were on good terms for years and didn't actually get divorced until years later. It wasn't until the police pretty much forced Cindy to point the finger at him that she really started to feel anger towards him. And one of her attacks happened while he was out of the country.

I can see why Cindy's family wasn't exactly thrilled with her marrying him, but he wasn't behind her torture. An odd man, yes. A killer, no.

Crystaldawn you are right this is a rather interesting case, and am glad we can discuss it further with out getting upset with one another because we have a difference in opinion.. now back to Cindy.. Ok Crys you make good points on the tying of the nylons and the whole hog tie situation being difficult I must say, but it would not be impossible.. and who is to say how far gone she was after all she was committed to hospital for a period 6 weeks I believe maybe longer. So that had to mean that she was suffering from some type of mental illness. and another point.. what about when they found her car with the groceries and the wrap gift in the back and the credit cards were scattered under the car! and the blood on the car door,but yet when they found her she had so visible signs of trauma no stab wounds cuts or bruises.. so where did the blood come from and if some one was stalking and attacking her why would leave her credit cards it take her away from her house it is inconsistent with the previous methods that she was attacked, most of the time she was attacked at home conveniently so that someone close to her can find her.. just odd that she was found in the middle of a abandon yard and no one saw anybody put her there or never mind the fact it was in the middle of no where!! and just the same if her ex husband had access to drugs who is to say she didn't after all I am sure she could have gotten her hands on some at that clinic she was posted up at and she could have easily practice how too before committing the actual act.. I don't believe she intended to kill herself that much I believe was an accident!

You know the strange thing about this case is a lot of the clues seem to point to different things. Some of the times she was found I agree it was out in the open where if she were doing this to crave attention she would have certainly gotten her wish while there were other times (like the incident when she was on the floor at her house with the knife stuck through her hand) where she didn't seem to know that anyone would have came over to find her. (Remember her friend just happened by to visit.) Also I have no reason to think that her friend and friends husband would lie and the fire that was started in her house he saw a man running down the road. But I have to agree with Neal Hall in if she was so terrified of a stalker why would she be walking her dog in the middle of the night. All these phone calls she is reported to have gotten I've wondered if the police ever tried to trace them. Or at least try to prove the phone calls were actually made. The book recounts numerous times when the police or friends were in her house when she received phone calls. I just can't see how she could have manufactured those when they were there to verify it. Do you think its possible that some of the incidents were stalking and some of were manufactured by Cindy to garner attention? Its a mind boggling case and there are a lot of theories but unfortunately we'll never truly know what happened.

Also its been a while since I've read the book (I've loaned them both out never to be returned) so correct me or verify this Dynoguy but didn't they mention that Cindy was dating one of the police assigned to her case while the harassment was going on. Any chance he could have been part of the alleged stalking and thus explain why the police never found anything? Also didn't they incinuate that during one of the attacks that UM never showed (I believe she was found on or in her car) that there was some sort of a sexual assault? Like I said these are just vague memories so feel free to elaborate.

What kind of dog was it? She might have felt safe enough if she was walking a big dog, and maybe she just got that sudden determination that her stalker wasn't going to change her life. I have no idea really but from what I have read I don't think she did all those things herself.

The incident where the knife was stuck in her hand she most certainly was expecting someone to find her.. Her Private Investigator. In fact that entire incident was rather strange there was no forced entry in the house ( remember the PI had to burst the door down) so how did the assailant get into her locked house, and then she claimed that she was hit on the side of the head with a piece of wood ok where did the wood come from and further more where did it go? I guess the attacker took it back with him when he left.. Also what attacker you know would sedate you before he stabs your hand with a knife .. sounds like a front too me!!! She stated that she remember a needle going into the side of her arm, so what was the purpose of the attacking hitting her on the side of the head with a piece of wood if he was going to sedate her?

one of my favorite all time cases

I'm 60% sure she did it all to herself, I like the element of mystery that will never be solved that another person MAY or may not have been involved

Is it possible that maybe she had a friend who was as emotionally damaged as she was that helped her with these "attacks"? It's doubtful, but there is nothing exactly normal about this case.

Until there is evidence otherwise, I will continue to believe that she was behind the attacks all along. I just can't accept the fact that she was brutally attacked five times and there is not one bit of physical evidence that another party was involved. Even Jeffrey MacDonald supposedly has a long blonde hair and some candle wax that he hinges the hopes of his freedom on. I realize that this was 1982-89 and forensic science was not what it is today, but it was good enough to detect the presence of a foreign attacker. I truly feel bad for Cindy. She was a beautiful lady whose life was wasted. I just don't believe we will ever know all there is to know about her.

The phone calls were almost always too short to trace. Remember, this was the 1980's - before the magic of caller ID. The several times the calls were long enough to trace, an exact location could never be found, just the district/area of Vancouver which didn't help. A couple of the threatening phone calls were recorded and played at her inquest. Jurrors had nightmares after listening to them. But as usual, parties were split on whether that was really some psycho man or Cindy disguising her voice on the tape.

Of course, when the phone calls weren't happening, her phone lines were usually cut. That's why she always had a two way radio at her house as well as a panick device (that alerted the police) in her purse. The 2nd attack where the knife was pinned through her hand, she wasn't expecting anyone that evening. Her private investigator, Ozzie Kaban, said he heard strange noises over the two way radio he had given her. That's when he went to her house, broke in and found her on the floor. I have no idea how an attacker could have entered her home for this if she was all locked up. This was the only attack that took place inside her home.

And in answer to your question, crystaldawn, yes, Cindy was dating a police office towards the beginning of her harrasment. His name was Pat McBride. He moved in with Cindy and within a short time, began a romantic relationship with her. He eventually asked her to marry him but she said "no," because she wasn't ready for that kind of commitment. I believe he only lived with Cindy for several months. Within a year or so, he married some other woman and left Cindy's case to another officer.

Is it possible the attacker had somehow gotten a key? It could easily have been someone she knew. It's also possible that there were more than one person involved in her harassment. I'm not saying she was innocent of it all, I just believe there is a good possibility that she was. Do the books tend to stick to the same story or do they seem to be slanted by the opinions of the authors in different ways? Also am I remembering this wrong or in the UM show did they say she said she knew who it was, or just that she knew more than she was telling and couldn't explain at that time?

Hi I am new to the board :wave: I have seen this case several times as I own a copy of bizzarre murders and I to am torn as to how she died and I would love to read the book by Neil Hall can anyone please tell me where I can find it on the web?

Thanks in advance :)

Welcome IndyGirl! :wave: Glad to have you.

Here is a link where you can buy the book (very cheap too :)):

http://www.biblio.com/isbn/0771037848.html

There is another book about the case titled "Who Killed Cindy James" by Ian Mulgrew. I thought the Neal Hall book was better written but Mulgrew does detail each reported harassment which I found interesting.

Thanks Crystaldawn :)

Another thing that makes me want to lean towards her being responsible for attacking herself is in the Unsolved Mysteries segment where the PI found her in the living room with the knife stuck in her hand.. He was able to go to the phone and call 911.. This is inconsistent with her pervious attacks since before she was attack the phone lines where always cut and the phone would be dead.. But this particular attack where there was no forced entry in the house the phone lines where not cut this time. Why not???? Also when she was in the mental hospital for 3 months why didn't the attacker continue to stalk her then how would the would be stalker know how long she was going to be hospitalized and when resume the stalking.. That to me says that there was no REAL.......... Stalker maybe one in Cindy's mind.. Also if this person was that sadistic to stalk her everyday for 7 years straight then it is rather obvious that he enjoyed doing it.. So why not move on to another victim once Cindy died.. so this attacker just stopped all together once he killed Cindy???? Stalkers are just like serial killers they don't stop until they are caught.

Being very knowledgable about this case, having read both boths and seeing the UM segment countless times I can say with absolute certainty that I am torn on how she died. There were many times where she didn't act like a normal victim would act but there were other instances where it seemed like she couldn't be responsible. I truly think this will forever be an unsolved mystery....if you'll pardon the expression.


This pretty much sums up my feelings about this case as well.

A couple of the threatening phone calls were recorded and played at her inquest. Jurors had nightmares after listening to them. But as usual, parties were split on whether that was really some psycho man or Cindy disguising her voice on the tape.


Now that is something I hadn't heard before, spooky!:eek:


On another front, did the books mention if Cindy could've suffered from schizophrenia?

The most popular theory from many close to the case is that Cindy suffered from multiple personalities. I have to question that. Although I'm no expert, I would have to assume that somebody would have noticed a major personality change SOME TIME during all those years. A person doesn't have control over when this other personality (or personalities) takes over, it just happens, doesn't it? Therefore, I would have to think that somebody would have noticed.

I read through a little of "The Deaths of Cindy James," last night and was reminded of a couple suspicious instances that could possibly point the finger away from Cindy staging everything.

1. The tennants that lived in the basement suite, one day, called the police after hearing suspicious noises upstairs after Cindy had left for work. Police investigated but didn't see anything amiss.

2. Cindy's next door neighbor remembered seeing an unfamiliar man (not Cindy's ex-husband, or any of the police) pounding on Cindy's back door. Another time she remembered him standing on her front porch.

3. Another neighbor who lived behind Cindy (their back yards were connected) surprised a stranger in his back yard one night staring at Cindy's house. The man ran off, breaking the hinge on the gate fence in the process before the owner could get a look at his face.

4. Also mentioned in the Unsolved Mysteries segment, the night Cindy's basement was set on fire, she and the Woodcocks got out of the house and noticed a man standing on the curb. He ran away down the street never to be seen again.

These could be just coincidences or they might have been something more.

A lot of the traits manifested by Cindy James seem to point to Borderline Personality Disorder. Do your own Google and see if you concur. Borderline personalities are seen on a continuum from chronic self slashers to very high functioning. The main trait is manipulation. They become victims by choice. Sometimes the outcome is tragic.

Thanks for the reply Dynoguy! :wave:

I'm going to buy "The Deaths of Cindy James", just so I can get some further insight into this bizarre case. By the way, whenever someone asks which episode of Unsolved Mysteries they should watch, to get a feel for the series, this is the first one I let them borrow. They then usually come back and ask where they can watch more of this.:D

LOL... that's because regardless of what happened to Cindy James, that episode is creepy! I want to say it was one of the first UM episodes I watched when I was younger... and it scared the crap out of me. When I re-watched it (while viewing the Bizarre Murders DVD's), it still gave me goosebumps.

Also... as to the comment about Cindy having a Borderline or Multiple Personality... I have a degree in Psychology and all I can say is, "Maybe." I might have to check out that book everyone keeps talking about.

Was it ever mentioned if she was abused sexually or physically as a small child? That’s what usually brings multiple personalities. The child’s brain “creates” another persona to cope with the distress -- and then it stays with you as an adult. You can’t control when the alters come out. It’s possible one of her alters was stalking her. I've heard of people with multiple personalities taking on the persona of their actual abuser, so that might have been the alter doing the stalking (if she was abused.... I have no idea).

This all sounds really odd, but here’s an interesting link about it:
http://www.mpdfriends.homestead.com/mpd.html

Was it ever mentioned if she was abused sexually or physically as a small child? That’s what usually brings multiple personalities. The child’s brain “creates” another persona to cope with the distress -- and then it stays with you as an adult. You can’t control when the alters come out. It’s possible one of her alters was stalking her. I've heard of people with multiple personalities taking on the persona of their actual abuser, so that might have been the alter doing the stalking (if she was abused.... I have no idea).[/url]

No, Cindy was never sexually abused as a child. And according to the books, neither were her two sisters or her three brothers...(all of whom grew up successful and raised families of their own.) The only real traumatic event that happened in Cindy's early life was when she was in her first year of nursing school. She fell in love with a man who was killed in a car accident. A year later she would meet her future husband. Within a couple years, her brother-in-law was killed in a plane crash. Those were the only REAL sad events in her life that come to mind, but she was already a young adult by the time those things happened.

The problem I have with personality disorder is that somebody, whether it was her family members, friends or co-workers would have noticed SOMETHING. I just don't see how a person can live for 44 years and have nobody observe multiple personalities.

The problem I have with personality disorder is that somebody, whether it was her family members, friends or co-workers would have noticed SOMETHING. I just don't see how a person can live for 44 years and have nobody observe multiple personalities.

Yeah, I'm with you on that. Based on my (limited) knowledge of Multiple Personality Disorder, the main personality (Cindy) wouldn't have any control over when one of the other personalities would manifest itself. In addition to someone noticing something strange, Cindy would have also been complaining of "black-out" periods, in which she would essentially lose time when one of the other personalities had appeared. Something to also keep in mind is that MPD is extraordinarily rare, although I'm not saying that it couldn't have happened.

What a haunting case...:eek:

I still have not been able to locate a copy of any of the Cindy James books.. but I doubt that reading them will matter much to me and my opinion that Cindy James was responsible for the stalking that lead to her dying at her own hand! No matter how many times I watch the segment on DVD each time I am more convinced that she was a litte off the wall.. This is really a sad case I really felt bad for Cindy.. but at the same time the record needs to be cleared that this was not a murder,, but more so a dramatic suicide!

I really think you should read at least one of the books as they share a lot more details than UM did. Here is a link I posted previously where you can get the best book very cheap.

http://www.biblio.com/isbn/0771037848.html

Here is a link where you can buy the other one (same website) and this one isn't as good in my opinion but if I recall correctly does detail every reported harassment.

http://www.biblio.com/books/50805462.html

Was it ever mentioned if she was abused sexually or physically as a small child? That’s what usually brings multiple personalities. The child’s brain “creates” another persona to cope with the distress -- and then it stays with you as an adult. You can’t control when the alters come out. It’s possible one of her alters was stalking her. I've heard of people with multiple personalities taking on the persona of their actual abuser, so that might have been the alter doing the stalking (if she was abused.... I have no idea).

This all sounds really odd, but here’s an interesting link about it:
http://www.mpdfriends.homestead.com/mpd.html

You may be right. I believe that her so called "secret", the one that she couldn't share with anyone, was horrible sexual abuse. Perhaps from her father or one of her brothers? Her dad used to come into her room even as an adult early in the morning, and it would set her off later. Remember that back then in the '80's such events were held secret. It wasn't until Oprah "came out" that folks started to share their own "night terrors". I believe that she did indeed have a multiple personality disorder. When one has switched over they usually have no memory of it - hence why she couldn't even describe to the detectives what the stalkers looked like! She reached her late 30's early 40's, middle age - when one fights those demons and stuffs such inside, at that time in one's life it starts to bubble and surface. Like "middle age crisis" ...

Interesting discussions! I have been reluctant to comment on this story b/c I wanted to first read at least one of the books before making a post. I have since done that, obviously watched the UM segment, and read several articles, and even listened to one of the supposed "threatening calls." http://www.melaniehack.com/

I feel sorry for Cindy, b/c I feel that she was doing this to herself in a desperate and sick attempt to get constant attention and to have people feel sorry for her. Perhaps she wasn't planning on it going this far or for this long, but after seeing the initial reactions she got hooked on the amount of sympathy, attention and rewards that came with it.
Frankly, I don't even think that Cindy was as "screwed up" as some do; I think she was obviously not well, but I think this was calculated and manipulative.

Think about it: The "harassment" started 3 months after her separation (not exactly a time when one is feeling a ton of confidence or lack of loneliness). Virtually EVERYTHING that seemed positive in her life was a direct result of her supposed harassment: Her increasing number of friends, her renewed positive relationship with her parents, her romantic lover, the PI guy, and non-stop police protection and neighborhood protection.

Obviously I may be wrong, but my gut instinct tells me that this was a very lonely woman who found a way to get a ton of sympathy and attention, and it payed off.

Plus, as many have mentioned, the vast majority of the incidents point to herself as the culprit: Listen to that "harassing" phone call and tell me that that doesn't sound like a novice attempt at a womam pretending to be a man. Plus... "dead meat." Who uses that phrase??? It's sort of sad frankly.

I can totally understand why some think it was foul play (it's hard to imagine someone doing this to themselves), and of course it is only natural that her friends and family would believe her, and perhaps incorrectly recall or embelish their "witnessing" of some events.

I'd love to know more about why some of you are inclined to think she didn't do this.. I have read this thread and the other thread linked above by another poster, and the few facts that seem like they point to a third party seem easily explained to me.

Thanks everyone.

this segment always made me think...

I find myself split between being able to decide whether i think for sure that she some how did all of this herself or in fact some one was doing all of this to her and finally did murder her.

In the segment they say that she had her hands and feet tied together behind her back and was overdosed on morphine and other drugs, I don't know about most people but I think I would struggle to tie my hands and feet together behind my back even without morphine..

What makes me tick even more is the mention that she always seemed to be with holding information about the attacks, leading one to believe that there was something A LOT bigger to the story..

There's a site on the site http://melaniehack.com/index.html which i believe was set up by Cindy's sister.

On the site there's an audio file down the bottom of the first page which is an actual recording of one of the threatening calls she supposedly received. I don't know if its just me, but after listening to the audio file a few times, I can't help but to be almost certain that the voice is a female's voice speaking in a slow and low, husky voice.. I suppose that just adds more question marks for me..

Well if she was sexually assaulted or "abused" as her sister's excerpt says, then at least some of the harassment had to have been real and not done by Cindy herself. I mean, you can't really do that to yourself.

I think she really was stalked. You'd be surprised the ways people can access homes, and not only that, but it was a lot easier to pull off things like this without leaving any noticeable evidence behind back in the 80's. And, it is not hard to follow someone as they move from place to place, particularly if it's done in the same city; painting a car isn't going to do much if the license plates stay the same, and I'm not sure how name changes work in Richmond, BC, but in many of the major cities here in the US, you have to take out a newspaper notice alerting people that you are changing your name (in case you owe them money or something). In smaller places you don't need to.

I believe she was stalked, but what's compelling about this case is the strong argument for both sides of the debate. This story would make a pretty good movie.

Oh I agree! It's unsettling how it could go either way.

If someone did stalk her, perhaps making people believe it was Cindy herself was part of the plan.