Retail posts will be removed- Please read the user rules, thank you.

[QUOTE=

Desperate Housewives Season 1
Chappelle's Show Season 2 Uncensored
Married With Children Season 1
Clarissa Explains It All Season 1

These sets have been watched once and are in excellent condition. These are the original sets with all the original packaging, just like you would buy in a store. They are not RIPs. If anyone is interested, Please contact me and we can work out a trade.

Thanks[/QUOTE]



YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TRADE RETAIL SETS ON THIS BOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TRADE RETAIL SETS ON THIS BOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.


Why so uptight?

I think you should be allowed to trade "original" dvd's. Just like you are allowed to sell stuff on ebay if you are listing them as "second hand" originals.

People view the stuff they buy and then want to move it .... there should be nothing wrong with this.

YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TRADE RETAIL SETS ON THIS BOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Rule #3 of the Sitcoms Online Trading Post Rules states: "No selling (rule 2) or trading rips of commercial DVDs" (emphasis added). The rules do not say anything about a ban on trading originals and the poster clearly stated that she is looking to trade her "original sets with all the original packaging, just like you would buy in a store. They are not RIPs."

You guys beat me to it. I have never seen a problem trading selling original dvds and videos.

Tom

Rule #3 of the Sitcoms Online Trading Post Rules states: "No selling (rule 2) or trading rips of commercial DVDs" (emphasis added). The rules do not say anything about a ban on trading originals and the poster clearly stated that she is looking to trade her "original sets with all the original packaging, just like you would buy in a store. They are not RIPs."


I thought u couldn;t trade retail DVD at all. Anything that is retail has no business in the trading community.

You guys beat me to it. I have never seen a problem trading selling original dvds and videos.

Tom

You can not sell original dvd's here, it has been clearly stated before. As far as I know you can trade original dvd's. There is no rule stating you can not.

Anything that is retail has no business in the trading community.
If someone wants a retail set and someone else wants to trade it away, why are you against the two parties being able to hook up and make a deal?

i dont see a problem with a lot of things

in fact i dont see a problem with my entire ioffer sales list to be posted on a daily basis either

BUT, these are the rules, and we--by signing in--agree to honor the rules of this site

we have the option of going elsewhere if we dont agree with the rules

there must be some reason that the powers that be, made this retail rule

some legal bs most likely

who knows, who cares, its the way it is

There are a lot of times I don't mind moderating...And then days liek this.


I have contacted BoutyBouty about this matter- and despite the fact there is a red link on every page of every page of SitcomsOnline stating DO NOT list retail sets, some people find the need to do it.


Now- I know to some people, trading is trading.
Whats the harm.
Whats the difference between a retail disc, and a homemade disc?

Your right Loren it is legal BS.

But, BS or not, it is an illegality. One that the owner of the site, has to pay close attention to.

Moderators, and owenrs of such sites- are not blind.
I own a site myself, I run 5 sites, and I moderate 5 sites.
I do not for a second believe NO one is trading retail. But what you do, and what is proved are two seperate things.

Let me give you some background to the differences.

If I tape something on television that is publically broadcast- it is just that, public. If I give it to my niece, my aunt, my landlord- I am doing them a favor.

If they tape something for me- and they give me something in return.
It is a favor.

When I take a retail set, and copy it. I am distributing.

Period. That is where the law and line cross.

Now, if A makes moonlighting for me retail set, and I make Saved by the bell retail set and we exchange. Is this a trade?
No. It is distributing.

Why?

Because at this point - someone has taken the time, and moeny and BOUGHT the rights to the show.
They have paid people to put design together, and are attempting to make a profit.
My making of the set- eliminates a buyer.
It steps onto their profit, because I am taking all their work. Their money, their time, and dubbing it- for another, for an exchange.
yes it is a trade to me, it is a profit loss to them.

And hence, it becomes illegal.

If I draw a 3 headed girl eating a grape- and give it to Loren, its my gift.
If I take a Picasso, and duplicate it, and pass it off- its illegal.

There is no difference.

To be perfectly honest, you can take saved by the bell-put them in order, make a little song, take free wbe art, and make the best set you want-
And trade it here- feel free. But when yo uDUB a set you are DUPLICATING other peopls work and selling it.

As far as Ioffer goes, they have different rules, and from what I can gather, Loren - you are not selling DUBBED sets, but homemade sets. Completely, utterly different situation.

(Don't sell them here) That goes without saying- Becuase that is an entirely different rule.

But, this is WHY retails sets are frowned upon.

If you have retail sets, and someone from here, sees your list and wants to trade- Fine, kudos to you.

But as far as legality goes, we the owners of these sites, agree upon several conditions, and for this site, agree or not. Selling is not permitted.
Retail sets are not permitted.

If you disagree, that is fine. Take it up with the MPAA, take it up with VERO, take it up with Disney, pack a lunch and take it to the Senate.
But don't go off on other users, or moderators for pointing it out.
We are held accountable.

Now, if anyone wants furthor explinations, I have no problem discussing it.
I can banter about legalities all day long.
But, any retail posts will be removed when I see them.
I encourage users to report retail sets, immediately.

And if you have them to trade, I recommend NOT listing them as retail. And discussing that, amongst the two of you when trading begins.

Please contact me with any other questions.

And thank you to the community members that reported this post.

Whether people like it or not, by keeping retail posts off here, and Bootleg movies, and sales- that is WHY sitcoms is one of the largest, and best trade sites around.

There are a lot of times I don't mind moderating...And then days liek this.


I have contacted BoutyBouty about this matter- and despite the fact there is a red link on every page of every page of SitcomsOnline stating DO NOT list retail sets, some people find the need to do it.


Now- I know to some people, trading is trading.
Whats the harm.
Whats the difference between a retail disc, and a homemade disc?

Your right Loren it is legal BS.

But, BS or not, it is an illegality. One that the owner of the site, has to pay close attention to.

Moderators, and owenrs of such sites- are not blind.
I own a site myself, I run 5 sites, and I moderate 5 sites.
I do not for a second believe NO one is trading retail. But what you do, and what is proved are two seperate things.

Let me give you some background to the differences.

If I tape something on television that is publically broadcast- it is just that, public. If I give it to my niece, my aunt, my landlord- I am doing them a favor.

If they tape something for me- and they give me something in return.
It is a favor.

When I take a retail set, and copy it. I am distributing.

Period. That is where the law and line cross.

Now, if A makes moonlighting for me retail set, and I make Saved by the bell retail set and we exchange. Is this a trade?
No. It is distributing.

Why?

Because at this point - someone has taken the time, and moeny and BOUGHT the rights to the show.
They have paid people to put design together, and are attempting to make a profit.
My making of the set- eliminates a buyer.
It steps onto their profit, because I am taking all their work. Their money, their time, and dubbing it- for another, for an exchange.
yes it is a trade to me, it is a profit loss to them.

And hence, it becomes illegal.

If I draw a 3 headed girl eating a grape- and give it to Loren, its my gift.
If I take a Picasso, and duplicate it, and pass it off- its illegal.

There is no difference.

To be perfectly honest, you can take saved by the bell-put them in order, make a little song, take free wbe art, and make the best set you want-
And trade it here- feel free. But when yo uDUB a set you are DUPLICATING other peopls work and selling it.

As far as Ioffer goes, they have different rules, and from what I can gather, Loren - you are not selling DUBBED sets, but homemade sets. Completely, utterly different situation.

(Don't sell them here) That goes without saying- Becuase that is an entirely different rule.

But, this is WHY retails sets are frowned upon.

If you have retail sets, and someone from here, sees your list and wants to trade- Fine, kudos to you.

But as far as legality goes, we the owners of these sites, agree upon several conditions, and for this site, agree or not. Selling is not permitted.
Retail sets are not permitted.

If you disagree, that is fine. Take it up with the MPAA, take it up with VERO, take it up with Disney, pack a lunch and take it to the Senate.
But don't go off on other users, or moderators for pointing it out.
We are held accountable.

Now, if anyone wants furthor explinations, I have no problem discussing it.
I can banter about legalities all day long.
But, any retail posts will be removed when I see them.
I encourage users to report retail sets, immediately.

And if you have them to trade, I recommend NOT listing them as retail. And discussing that, amongst the two of you when trading begins.

Please contact me with any other questions.

And thank you to the community members that reported this post.

Whether people like it or not, by keeping retail posts off here, and Bootleg movies, and sales- that is WHY sitcoms is one of the largest, and best trade sites around.



That's exactly what i was saying. That post about retail was just a cover up knowing that they planned on selling them off this site. Anything Retail I can buy from the store or online. Why trade for it?

Well I am in discussion with the owner and other moderators of the site.

A good question, indirectly has been placed here.


1-Selling is not allowed here period.
If you want to sell, there is Ebay, Half.Com Ioffer etc.

Those rules, will never change.

2-I have expressed why the dubbing of a retail set is now allowable. I think to the degree most people will understand, those who want more details can contact me.

However, as far as TRADING a retail disc- I firmly believe it is still considered distribution to "gain or profit" by the exchange of anything purchased. Under distribution law- but I am not omnipitent, and I am looking into it.

So for now, I ask the cooperation of the board to not list retail discs for TRADE either, until a determination can be made, OR until the rule, can be ammended to state as such so no confusion is made.

These rules aren't made to stifle anyone, or to be "mean" it is under the guides of the ISP provider, as well as the law that we make them.
But it is confusing even to us-
So bear with us.


I know some believe if you happen to have a retail disc, and wish to trade it for something else, you should have that right.
And maybe once you have purchased it, you do- but I doubt it. But until I know differently, I believe opening the door to trading retail discs, would open the door to the first two rules that are NOT allowed- and hence, it is easier to say no retail- at all. So that it isn't a continuing policing of moderators, asking is that really a retail disc, or is it a dub.
I would tear my hair out if I had to start doing that.

So I admit, there is an argument for both sides on this- and I am looking into it.
But for now, retail is retail- and it isn't allowed to be posted.

kim

would i need to send you postage for the picture of the girl

what color is the grape??


why do people trade for retail copies when the sets are at wlamart

i think its becasue the sets at walmart

like star trek voyager-- $ 94.99 for 7 discs

so with tax, about $13 to $ 14 a disc

if you trade for them

its less than $ 1 disc with blank and shipping

so its a cheap way to get them


i have the entire star trek retail run

deep space

tos

voyager

next gen

enterprise

if you figure nearly $100 with tax a season

thats about $2700 for the star trek run

and one more enterprise to come yet

$ 2800 with that one


i thnk its very easy to figure why people want retail copies


my self, i have cut well over 1200 retail discs from my trade list, to concentrate on the older things

its very boreing to me to trade for buffy 5 and angel 3 and crapola 3 etc

but i do understand why some want to do that

and another reason amy be is because they havent the resources to get soem older things

and therefore cant braek into the older itme trade circles

so thys do what they can

a little rental copies action and there in the trade circle with others like them

That's exactly what i was saying. That post about retail was just a cover up knowing that they planned on selling them off this site.


You're quite the sleuth ... you saw right through that one.
AMAZING.

Sorry Loren. I've got dibs on the grape picture first.

Whenever I see a post like this I feel sorrow for the moderators
because it seems everyone decides they have to push the envelope
as far as what can and can't be done. As if the rules in the forum
end up putting people in a box.

Everyone who is in the trading business knows retail sets are
there, they're copied and traded on this board. Whether the
language is hidden under a 10/10 set or if it's "these are great
episodes). It's still the same. it happens.

So why not change the rules? for the simple fact that noone wants
the MPAA, the RIAA, and the EIEIO coming knocking, calling,
spotting, e-mailing or pissing on your door. It isn't fun and
it isn't a lark. It's some serious money if they come knocking
and asking "Hey, we see you sell retail sets. We'd really like
to talk to you about that.".

Whether it's the rigid rules of the road or the spirit of the law. It's not
a difficult concept to get across that retail = no no. Do not trade,
do not copy, or at least don't sit there and advertise it. And if you
feel the need to have to sell/trade retail sets and do it in public
so that everyone knows. Lots of other places to do it.

But to me, the more important thing is that the rules that are set on
this board are not all that confining. People trade all the time without
the need for that "one more trade" that ends up causing 10 entries
of people wanting to change the rules.

As someone who will remain nameless has said before. If you don't like
the way things are set up, Make your own ultracool board, invite
people that you like and set your own rules. If you've got good stuff
then I'll be there. But if you don't, I won't be visiting that often.

Be good, Be bad, jsut never be boring.

Sorry Loren. I've got dibs on the grape picture first.


.

if i were to ask you for a copy of this picture

would that also be a copyright problem as well

now im hurt

she made it for me

despite the fact there is a red link on every page of every page of SitcomsOnline stating DO NOT list retail sets, some people find the need to do it.

While this is true if you read into "Trading Post Rules - Read Before Posting" It says you may not trade rips of commercial DVDs. If you want to be clear and not confuse people you may want to make it say the same thing in red and inside the trading post rules link. Something like this maybe.

"There is to be no trading of ripped or original retail DVD's." That would be clear if that is what you are going after.

I agree Scott, that is what I was stating in my second post- It is confusing, and there is a an arguement to each side.


I undertand totally why people WANT to trade retail. Don't get me wrong. They are better quality, sometimes behidn the scenes stuff, and of course they are in order, perfectly edited and so on.

Retail is great, that is why people buy them.
And it is expensive..Ishudder to think what I have spent when I splurge.


But even understand why, and agreeing that sometimes retail is better- No one wnats ot be arrested, or even fined.
And more so, I think a lot of people want to keep this site going.


As far as being able to trade original dvds....whether is should or shoudln't be, isn't necessarily the problem.
It is how to moderate that.
With fancy dvd labels- etc. People can furnish a professional looking dvd label- and trade them as retail, when they are dubs- for one concern.

There are only so many hours in the day, and I feel a lot of frustration would come of trying to police what is real what is homemade, what is authentic- and so on.

What if people feel retail is at a higher value- and people offerd 2-3 discs per one retail disc- to find out the are fraudulant?

What if someone starts trading retail discs for blanks, and what if it is a rare set, and someone says "Hey ill send you 40.00$ in blank discs- and finds out they aren't retail?
Then what.

I can see all sorts of problems arising from this- which is why, in the past it has been stressed no retail period.

It's hard to moderate- and these decisions don't make it easier, but I admit I don't know what the answer is.

I value the communities insight, and am trying to ponder a compromise with other moderators.

just so theres no problem

make the rule easy to read

and then thats it


in my opinion

if its clear, then there will be a better compliance

no retails means no retails

thats simple

no selling emans no selling

and to me trades for blanks are the same exact thing as selling

since blanks represent money, just like a paypal payment does

its value

where as a disc of this for a disc of that, doesnt

a trade is a trade

where an exchange for a blank--to me-- is a sale

just as a trade for 10 homemade discs for a set of retail discs

is also a sale to me

because the retail set has a value, and represents cash as well


what ever the rule is

make it clear '

make it easy

and make it stick every time exactly the same way

no retails means no retails

Yes, but the problem is the rules don't say no retails, they explicitly say no retail rips. The two are not the same and the red sticky at the top of each page linking to the rules are NOT part of the rules. Therein lies the confusion. One little change in the wording of the rules proper and the reason for this entire thread goes away.

This subject will repeatedly come up, simply because there are two opposing camps. One consists of the sellers, oh sure they say they are traders but their sole purpose for being on these boards is to stock their inventory with new wares. They will trade but know when they post a 25 or 30 dvd set most folks don't have the goods to trade, so a sale comes up. But remember they want as much as they can becasue their main concern is filling their pockets, not the well being of the board. Anyone with a any degree of common sense can realize there is no reason to annoy the powers to be by putting up retail stuff. Just a reason to close us down. If so, the sellers will go elsewhere and start hawking their wares, here and on Ebay, and Ioffer. It's illegal, there should be no discussion. What you do out of earshot of the board is your business but don't mention retail here.

The second group is the trader who on occassion sells when their is nothing he or she wants from the other party. They trade because they like certain programs and lookforward to enjoying them, where party A could care less, "I ain't got it and I want it, no matter what it is because I'm looking to make a buck. Sell all you want but protect the board and respect the wishes of those running it but as in life there will always be some that want to see what they can get away with.


Harvey

so why does it always come back to people who sell???

theres alos nothing here about people who wear red shoes

so leave thta for another arguement


theres nothing in this discussion about selling


its about offering a retail set in trade

and it been the rule that no retails are allowed

and the rule above is a little different in wording


a huge majority of the regular posters on this board sell

and a lot of those same people do it hidden behind clever user names and under cover

but by garsh they do sell

and wether its daily, weekly or monthly, they do sell

and wether its out in the open, or hidden under user names and fake emails, or they lurk and email and offer things at $ 122 an hour--which i can prove i might add---

its still selling

and its realy not fair to blame every probelm that ever comes up on a seller

and please, theres not one person on this borad that hasnt benifited from a seller, by them getting an item they would never have come up with other wise

think about that for a minute

and tell me it isnt correct

This subject will repeatedly come up, simply because there are two opposing camps. One consists of the sellers, oh sure they say they are traders but their sole purpose for being on these boards is to stock their inventory with new wares. They will trade but know when they post a 25 or 30 dvd set most folks don't have the goods to trade, so a sale comes up. But remember they want as much as they can becasue their main concern is filling their pockets, not the well being of the board. Anyone with a any degree of common sense can realize there is no reason to annoy the powers to be by putting up retail stuff. Just a reason to close us down. If so, the sellers will go elsewhere and start hawking their wares, here and on Ebay, and Ioffer. It's illegal, there should be no discussion. What you do out of earshot of the board is your business but don't mention retail here.

The second group is the trader who on occassion sells when their is nothing he or she wants from the other party. They trade because they like certain programs and lookforward to enjoying them, where party A could care less, "I ain't got it and I want it, no matter what it is because I'm looking to make a buck. Sell all you want but protect the board and respect the wishes of those running it but as in life there will always be some that want to see what they can get away with.


Harvey


Where does this even come from?? The discussion was about trading original retail DVD sets like you can buy in a store. No one has made a post about selling anything.

It came up because to me much of what is said to be trading,the individual really wants to sell and I firmly believe selling and trading don't mix.

Loren's statement about all benefiting from seller's is not true. I have never never gained from sellers.

I was the one who aquired the 140 episodes of Robin Hood, full run of William Tell, full run of Sir Lancelot and full run of sir Francis Drake. I acquired the 108 episodes of I led Three Live, 100 Dr. Kildare, 70 State Troopers, full run of stories of the century, 40 That's Hollywood, Tombstone Territory, 100 plus of Wagon Train and not one came from a seller. So to say we all have gained from sellers is crap.

I just feel that selling and trading don't mix and try to color up selling and calling it trading is just unfair.

Harvey

It came up because to me much of what is said to be trading,the individual really wants to sell and I firmly believe selling and trading don't mix.


Harvey

What individual are you talking about?
The original poster of this thread, BoutyBouty101 was not selling anything.


I don't sell on this board. Trading and selling do go hand in hand. Like I think Loren mentioned, most people on this board sell, just not here.

what is wrong with selling. especially if it is off this board. people like myself, who don't really know how to put these sets together, wouldn't gain some of the things i have if there weren't sellers. i haven't sold a single thing, but i'm glad that there are people that do.

I just had a few sets that I watched and didn't want anymore. I wasn't trying to "pull something" and I certianly didn't mean to cause this much commotion. If it's not OK then I won't do it. But I don 't see how its any different then the Duplicators that were offered up for trade thh other day, and nobody seemed to care about that...

It came up because to me much of what is said to be trading,the individual really wants to sell and I firmly believe selling and trading don't mix.

Loren's statement about all benefiting from seller's is not true. I have never never gained from sellers.

I was the one who aquired the 140 episodes of Robin Hood, full run of William Tell, full run of Sir Lancelot and full run of sir Francis Drake. I acquired the 108 episodes of I led Three Live, 100 Dr. Kildare, 70 State Troopers, full run of stories of the century, 40 That's Hollywood, Tombstone Territory, 100 plus of Wagon Train and not one came from a seller. So to say we all have gained from sellers is crap.

I just feel that selling and trading don't mix and try to color up selling and calling it trading is just unfair.

Harvey


harvey

your entitled to an opinion

but please make it an honest one

i know where you get a lot of items from, and believe me

you benifit a lot from sellers, so maybe the non informed folks will believe that story,

but i ceratinly know much better


and thats a nice list you rolled out in your post

however drake, lancelot and tell are all out on retails and are easily avaible anywhere

and as long as you been doing this, thats not a whole lot of things that you have dug out

i hve been fooling with tv shows for less than 18 months

i can name off at least 30 major sets that i personaly have introduced into the trade circles, sets i got from non traders, from getting 6 runs and makeing a set, from buying them from people who will not trade,etc

harvey, you personaly have some of these, so you can not say you didnt benifit from a seller

you would have never had them , had it not been for me getting them and allowing them to circluate to you

right now im working on

ironside, perry mason, streets of san francisco, police woman, cagney and lacy, barnaby jones, matlack, petticoat junction, daktari, more items that no one who has them wants to trade with anyone

i dont see these available from people for trades, but when they roll out shortly, you will know who put the expense and work into them

harvey, you may not like sellers, you may be jealous of sellers, but your getting things from sellers, through your group, that are only avaible because people like me turned them loose

keep watching in the next few weeks and see some of the new items i roll out with

and one last true statement, harvey, if you didnt trade with sellers, you wouldnt get much new stuff,

i know pretty much who sells and where and how, and for how much, there arent many people with even moderate collections that dont sell--that are members of this site

now since you didnt benifit from sellers, i want all the things you got from sellers taken off your list

come on now harvey, your not talking to loren-dope-stick here, i know what goes on a little bit

the first step to recovery is admisson

im not asking to be sister loren teresa, the great dvd humanitarion, i just get a little tired of people telling the same lame story about how sellers ruin everything that is good and true on this site

Dominating the board with your posts every day, doesn't make you all-knowing either ... or is it a form of subliminal advertising??

Hmmmm?

I have packaged to go to Norm tomorow, Streets of San Fran, Ironside and he has my Perry Mason's. So get your facts straight before riding in on the white horse. Norm does your converting as I speak to him at least twiice a day, so if you want to be in la la land, that's fine but don't drag me in. You don't convert i but send to Norm, point being save the tales for others.

Harvey

Okay, so has this dead horse been beaten yet too?

The problem is that as stated. noone will stop at saying "it's just a few retail
dvd's. We saw not too long ago what happened when someone started
wanting to sell retail Game cd's. I will guarantee one hundred percent that
there is someone who can copy a retail dvd, and then print a really spiffy
label exactly as the one in the case. and Send it as retail.

And either way. People will still push that envelope farther and farther.
so it has to go one way hard or another. And that either means let
everything be free game. Or you eliminate Retail DVD's completely from
the mix.

Now, before this starts to become a pimp slapping contest.
Some of the he said/she said you said might be better off moved
to private messages. Dirty laundry still stinks even when aired
out.

I would like to prevent things from getting ugly here.



First off.

Selling- and trading.

Obviously sales go on. You can look at it from many different points of view.
People BUY their cable service for example- the equiptment for dish tv, whatever.
They use a service they rent/own to put together some sets.
Some people put their sets together form vhs tapes they once bought. Video stores that went out of busines. Columbia house sales.

Some people rent, and copy- Some people buy retail, copy it for themselves, sell the retail set, once they had it.

People gain their shows from many many different ways.
Some cost, some dont.
Some cost time, some cost effort, some cost money.


I highly doubt there is a trader here, that by SOME degree of seperation has not benefited or funded a seller in some way.
If Person a sells it, and b- trades it, it saves c buying it by trading.
No one is arguing that fact.

And there are sites that are made FOR selling.
No one is disputing that.

What I, and others are disputing is THIS is not one of those sites.

Why? Legalities.

If you want to sell. I can't stop you.
There is Ebay, I offer, Half.com Paypal, there are websites that harness that ability and are set up for that.
But those websites have a different set up.Paypal offers insurance and protection
Ebay offers professional moderation, hald.com offers insurance you can buy.
I offer, has feedback and a feedback center deisgned to benefit sellers, and buyers both.
THIS SITE doesn't.


Selling is illegal- in some areas.
The laws are grey, and trading can be viewed as acceptable or illegal depending on how it is done.
Don't kid yourselves, if someone wants to make an issue out of it they can.

But since this board, as well as many others has problems with bad traders. People who cheat the sytem on just trading- when you introduce the option of selling your in an entirely different ballgame.

This site isn't designed to hand that.
There is no legal team to look into it. There aren't enough moderators for when someone rips you off.

Now if you TRADE and you get the bad end of the deal. usually, not always your out your time, and some cash. No way around that.

But there is a different prospect when you sell.
Patience run very low wiht money being involved.

Someone just again asked what is the harm in selling.

Okay- I decide to make a copy of Song of the South.
Someone wants to trade me- I get their disc. I send nothing. They are out time, a few bucks.

We get closer to Christmas. Someone wants Song of the South. They really want it, have nothing to trade. No one else has it, I sell it for 50.00$

They are out 50.00-
Now what do they do? Well they can stop payment on the check, they can issue a complaint for the money order, they can file with Paypal IF they used that method.
What if they paid cash?
What if they file the complaint that they were trying to buy an illegal copy of Song of the South.
They are now in violation with Vero, for trying to asertain a copy of a film not legally put to dvd.
They are now guilty.

The fine for that, by the way, the first time is 2500.00.

-
The harm in selling- another aspect, is it puts a price on things. Sounds simple huh.

A dvd for a dvd is a dvd.
A tape for a tape is a tape. Clear cut issues. Clear cut design.

Someone gets a hold of a set, that was 100.00 and they want to sell it, do traders bid?
Is there a set price?
Will someone buy, and then decide they will copy it and resell it?

Ahhh, well now- they are a distributor. They have made a profit on a sale.

Are they filing taxes? Are they charging tax?
Did you keep the receipt for your purchase?

If you sell more than 250.00 of items, from a lemonade stand, or a garage sale in Iowa, you have to file taxes on it.
Who is responsible to keep track of that?
The board?
Sitcoms, TJ? THe ISP carrier?

--
The harm in selling- goes far too deep to even put into words.
I bring up fraud again.
How do you know, your discs ARE retail discs. How do you know they aren't burns, and print shop with label maker?

Are you going to care- when it isn't and who are you going to complain to?
The owner, Me? the other moderators.

Are you going to expect more from a sale than a trade?

I know I do.
When I spend money on something, compared to a trade. It is the difference of new or resale shop.

-I can go on and on, I really can.

A lot of people know people on this site that sell.
Fine. But as far as I can help, they don't sell here.
I have never ever told a user on here, Don't sell on Ebay. Don't sell on Ioffer.

But don't sell on here. We are not set up for selling. We can offer no protection for the oweners of the group, the moderators, or YOU the traders.

There are places to sell, and people can go there.
This is a place to trade, and for the most part- people come here for that.
If you want a place to do BOTH, create it- Or post the website of an area you know of.
But this is a place to trade.


********

Now the retail discs FOR trade is an entirely different issue. And that is being put up for verdict right now.

There is a grey area in the wording I have fully admitted that.
Scott pointing it out-as did TDubel.

And for right now, I have made my opinion clear, but it is ultimately up to the owenr of the site, who is aware of the issue- to ammend the wording, one way or the other.

Retail sets are expensive. And if this was a perfect world, where everyone was honest, and everyone shared, and everyone was upfront, and everyone looked out for each other- this might not even be an issue.
But the situations that have arose already from selling, HAS NOT been pleasant and for the most part, ended badly.

And once again in comes down to legality and ownership responsiblity.

If someone here trades enough to create a set, to sell it- I can't stop that. And some people gte huffy they didn't make money, since they helped create the set so to speak.
Some people don't have anything to trade in the beginning, and buying IS the only way to get going. I don't deny that.

But that is why there are other websites.
You can buy, and collect, and create and sell.

You can only trade here however.

I'm sorry- thats the way it is. For all the reasons I have listed, and more.

Once again, if you want to sell- sell, somewhere else.
If you want to buy, buy, somewhere else.

if you have bought or sold, and have something FROM that transaction to share in a TRADE, by all means bring it here.

You don't have to stay a member here if you disagree.
But you do have to cooperate if you stay.
And these are the rules I uphold, until someone tells me otherwise.

I don't want people turning against each other over this issue. I dont like the tension that is being created from this. And I am sorry so many find this topic so hard to agree with.

I would appreciate if someone can try to see my point, or look at the future prospects of the possibilities of complications from this issue- before attacking anyone else over this.

I have received 17 emails today, PERSONALLY attacking me over this. Literally, I mean, simple out right name calling-

So for the record I am available to dicuss this, but please try to show me a little respect.
And I'll try not to take certain things personally, even though for the most part they were written specifically for that aspect.

The rules are clearly posted

it doesnt matter if u agree with them or not

rules are rules

if you do not like them, trade someplace else, simple as that

i think everyone here is making a mountain out of a molehill

and it would be best to just let it go

lifes too short and this takes precious trading time away
ha ha

:lol: :lol: :lol:

harvey, please come back to realiy

YOU TRADE WITH SELLERS ALL THE TIME

why cant you admit it

its only wrong when i sell

but its ok when you get things from sellers????

thats not a benifit to you that they add to your holding??


thats my original statement

people benifit all the time from sellers

it builds your collection--IT BUILDS YOUR COLLECTION


but somehow every time theres a problem on this board

you post right behind me and run off about sellers being the cause of every problem ever

and then you --CLAIM-- you never have benifited from sellers

harvey, it may sound nice to the readers

BUT ITS ANOTHER FABRICATION ON YOUR PART

i know lots of sellers you get trade items from

lots


now how will you spin that???

isnt it difficult for you to try and tell a story, when your going up against the facts , and still you try and spin and squirm out of it

come on harvey

tell us why your still trying to cling to a fanatsy belief that you havent ever benifited from sellers

i know i would love to hear it


and as far as people doing reauthor work, i have about 10 people that work on things for me, so whats that prove??

i have offers every couple days from people who want to do soem work, in exchange for soem items to help themselves out

i dont do any reauthor work, i make no secret of it, I DONT KNOW HOW TO, i admit that all the time, its no secret



and as far as this getting nasty

i never called any one any names, just offered the exact truth, and called out a person who constantly takes pot shots at me,

to answer and explain why he told a fabrication and tried to discredit me



the fact is he deals with sellers all the time and it helps his collection out greatly

its not one inch of his concern that i sell, THATS NOT AGAINST THE RULES HERE, SINCE I DONT DO IT HERE, i dont force him to buy from me, and there is no question that most of the people that are active on this board--are also sellers, and it wasnt me who was trying to move some retails in trade

this had nothing to do with selling, yet i get another lame pot shot taken at me again


if i did something to you, come on out and tell me and ill make it better than correct for you, if you dont wanna email me, contact savage and tell her, she will take care getting the problem to me

this is so lame just takeing pot shots at me

Why can't the post stay on topic. It happens all the time. One person for whatever reason gets in a post and changes the original topic totally. Why? You want to talk about selling, make your own topic. Why jump into someone elses thread and talk about selling. The original poster did not want to sell his original DVD retail sets at all, he wanted to trade them, right or wrong thats what he did, trade them, to me.

Loren, all you need to do is make a comment, any comment and certain people like to try and tell something that they think no one here knows. It makes them look foolish IMO.

Loren is a seller! My bad, I blew your cover. :lol: :lol: Let me do as I say and make my own topic about that:lol: (joking)

Is it possible for someone to replicate the casing/booklets ect. on a retail set? That would be almost impossible. I don't thnink anyone would want just the discs.

Why can't the post stay on topic. It happens all the time. One person for whatever reason gets in a post and changes the original topic totally. Why? You want to talk about selling, make your own topic. Why jump into someone elses thread and talk about selling. The original poster did not want to sell his original DVD retail sets at all, he wanted to trade them, right or wrong thats what he did, trade them, to me.

Loren, all you need to do is make a comment, any comment and certain people like to try and tell something that they think no one here knows. It makes them look foolish IMO.

Loren is a seller! My bad, I blew your cover. :lol: :lol: Let me do as I say and make my own topic about that:lol: (joking)

darn, and i used my real name in my sale ads to try amd throw people off my trail

darn it, you found me out

funny how i have 4 emails tonight that say the same thing

why does this one person, insist on posting after me and blame sellers for all evil

just me it seems

other sellers are ok


remember a few days ago

one of our members had a liitle problem with a person and the person posted them as a poor seller

well the title of the thread was

__________ bad seller

the buyer and this seller made a deal that went astray a bit

so if you look at that thread right now, you will see harvey posts that he and this person had 3 trades and all was just nice

interesting

harvey trashes sellers, and specificaly me

and claims that he never benifited from a seller ever

but yet, he made three trades with this seller by his own post

so which one is a fabrication

well i know he traded at least three or probably even more times with this seller

so

of course this should prove 100% that he isnt telling the correct story

and now hes really mad at me for bringing it out in the open


hes not the first person on here to say one thing and do another

and i really dont care what he does

except i would prefer that he doesnt take unwarranted shots at me

if you have a gripe with me

spell it out

takeing cheap shots is just so not cool


so scott the next time someone discusses why their burner doesnt work , please beat harvey to the punch and announce its because of sellers and blame me

I think this issue has gone so far off topic, its hard to make heads or tails anymore.

Bouty- some people would trade for retail discs-regardless of artwork- trust me. But i see your point as well.



You did not offer to sell, please no one confuse that-Bouty offered to trade original discs- and that has opened pandoras box.

What is has come down to is- there is a foggy line on HOW rule numbr 3 is written.

I am working with the owner, to AMMEND that rule so that it is clear to all.

Loren- Your right you can sell, just not here. I respect that. Just as you have respected that.

But it sounds like there are larger issues going on that just this issue- and maybe this topic, simply brought other things to a head.

I can say honestly, I have never been tipped off, or been witness to Loren, selling on this site- although most are aware he sells on another site.

Another site being the opporative word.

As far as where harvey, or anyone else get's their items from- again its a moot issue. It's their business.

My obligation is to edit posts offering to sell, and ban users of selling.

My obligation is to understand the rules and to ammend it is so the community understands it and upholds it.
Todays topic represented a flaw in that, and it is being remedied.

Maybe everyone needs to take a step back for tonight, and put it into perspective.

No matter the outcome, someone is going to be unhappy. Thats the curse of most decisions.
And it might be an example of people just agreeing to disagree.

I thank everyone who has taken the time to give the opinion, and hope that we can take a deep breath and put things in perspective.

Darn, I wish business was so good so I can hire a 10-man staff too.

This authoring part really sucks ... it cuts down on your sales.

I would like to remind everyone that this is a HOBBY, not a business site (what you do on your own time is your business and I have no problem with it.).

I would also like to remind everyone, that while we have all made sets ( I made most of the Redd Foxx related dvd sets that are traded around, MSquad that I am sure will find its way soon, etc.), that is what they are trading sets, they are NOT NEW RELEASES, etc etc etc. Again, most of the stuff traded is in good copyright and owned by the studios, just not released. For me the point of trading is to enjoy shows that you can otherwise not get, that is the fun part.

As for the "subliminal" selling posts, to each his own. However, again this is a trading board, so extras for trade, and waiting a few weeks, who cares? That is what trading is about, again, its a hobby, we all don't sit by our recorders and burners 24/7. Extras for trade are great b/c you can try out a series before you waste time acquiring something you will never watch.

I am sure some will be offended, but I think what I stated is a fairly accurate viewpoint for most traders, this is supposed to be FUN, let's try and keep it that way.

Tom D.

Darn, I wish business was so good so I can hire a 10-man staff too.

This authoring part really sucks ... it cuts down on your sales.


is that why you will not trade the batman set

AND WILL ONLY SELL IT FOR $ 200


it seems we have another seller who is not interested in trades

and uses this board to promote his sales

by posting he has a 29 disc batman uncut set

and then when people want to trade for it, its suddenly not for trade

but somehow its for sale for $ 200

and this same person seems to also like to run his mouth about me, look above for two more examples of his cheap shots

and yet i trade every day of the week

and everythings for trade thats on my list

and somehow im the bad guy


this is the same seller who trashed me out for

UNDERCUTTING his gouge price on leave it to beaver


lets see

i trade anything that i have

i sell at a far lower rate than this person

and yet he takes cheap shots at me all the time


hey joker, like the man said this is a trade site

how come you will not trade the batman and only sell at $ 200

i sure hope no one buys the set on ioffer and starts to trade it

or did you give the buyer a list of people that he couldnt trade it to ???


previous to takeing cheap shots at me, perhaps you could look at a little of your motives and actions


also no one said they had a 10 person staff, i said i had about 10 people that author things , and its a good way for them to add to their collection

seeing as how guys like you will not trade with them and only want $200 for items they claim they will trade, but will not

OKay this is getting into some serious name calling, finger pointing.


The ISSUE that started this was people reported to me, that Bouty Bouty was traidng retail discs.

This opened up the fact that rule number three states you can't trade RIPS, not trade retail discs.
This is being disputed, ammended, and worded so that there is no confusion for new traders, or even some of us older traders.

We have discussed that.
Its being ammended and everyone will be updated shortly to the exact VERGABE of the issue.

Selling has come up and we have heard all sides. And it has gotten to the point many people are inflamed. Many people are taking shots at each other-
And as TDubel said, this is supposed to be fun. Supposed to be a hobby.

Now this thread is an exact example of why selling causes problems. Because very few are guiltless although they hold opinions of it.

And though no problem is the "fault" of a trader or a seller, the fact is the opinions that are being shared at this point aren't being shared intelligently anymore.

I don't want to have to lock another thread. I don't want people taking sides, I don't want people taking hits on their reputation, nor do I want people having to defend themselves.

We all have gained from selling, or buying, and trading at SOME point or another, directly or otherwise - at least 99 percent of us- so let's stop pointing fingers.

Those who are hipicrits, already know it.
Some that are defending don't need to.

My grandma always said
Tell the truth once, your friends won't need it and your enemies wont believe it.

or did you give the buyer a list of people that he couldnt trade it to ???


My list contains one NAME and if you have a connection that one NAME, YES you are black listed. .... YOU ARE PUBLIC ENEMY #1


a huge majority of the regular posters on this board sell

and a lot of those same people do it hidden behind clever user names and under cover

but by garsh they do sell

and wether its daily, weekly or monthly, they do sell

and wether its out in the open, or hidden under user names and fake emails, or they lurk and email and offer things at $ 122 an hour--which i can prove i might add---



You had to bring me back into this, now you will have to deal with me again. I will be the thorn in your side forever.

Every time you take a jab at me, I'll be right there with a counter.

And stop playing this Mr Nice Guy on the board... you might have some of these people fooled but the other half are not buying your act.


Joker

Truly amazing. Say a word that differs with Loren and it's a cheap, pot shot but it's perfectly acceptable for Loren to open his toilet mouth.

When You state I deal with dealers, let me set the record straight before you tell me you also walk on water.

Here his who I have dealt with on this site.

Tom Tubel 1 trade
Savage Amusement 1 trade
Michael Randazzo 1 trade
Lamont 3 trades
Agent 13 Numerous trades

One year ago half trade with Loren

My other contacts have nothing to do with this site or any site and do not sell on Ioffer or Ebay.

I'm sure I get items form someone who got it from someone else, who got it from a dealer, So?

I have nothing against selling but feel mixing it with trading soils the hobby and causes grief in a trading group.

But still it's a great feeling to be able to converse with someone who is so close to GOD.

Harvey

It is clear that there is anger and hostility between some users here.
Some definate disapproval and perhaps resentment.
But this isn't settling anything at all.


I would suggest writing each other, and trying to has out the differences privately.
The only thing most gain from a public act like this is resentment, a bad reputation, or peoples judgements and others taking sides.

You two disagree , and feel the need to point each others "false statements, and feelings of hipocracy"
Its obvious, its been stated- but restating it, more agressively isn't going to solve anything.

This thread was started to discuss retail selling, retail trading and that has been discussed.
i, the other moderators and the owner are ware of some issues that need to be dealt with.

The rest of this is erupting into a lot name calling and finger pointing which is 1-A distraction from the actual issue. and 2- not solving anything.

I wont tell you two the motherly, go and make up bit. This is a big board- you can co-exhist without liking each other.
But I will give the other motherly advice.
If you have nothing nice to say, it's best not to say anything.

This thread is done. I HATE closing threads, for the record. Because some is always left unable to say something back. But sometimes people abuse having to have the last word as well.
So I apologie to anyone left disgruntled about this thread.


There will be a community update on the rule of retail discs/trading- and any furthor discussions about it, are welcomed to me or any other moderator-

If anyone has any other complaints, or questions- as the saying goes
"My lap top is always open"

But I would like for everyone to try to take a deep breath, settle down and stop antagonizing each other.
At least for today.

To avoid any future confusion, the rule is being amended. Allowing any trading of retail sets is opening a pandoras box. There is no way to verify if what is being traded is an actual set or one that has been ripped.

If you want to trade your retail sets, there are plenty of other alternatives such as ioffer. If you want to sell your retail sets, there is eBay and half.com