Does anyone know if her body has ever been found or if she was found alive. This was the girl abducted while on the pay phone with her boyfriend and he gave chase but his car gave out. This was one of the most disturbing case I have ever watched on UM. Thanks for any information.
I remember this case. Out of all the cases, this one still haunts me. I think it was the killers voice saying, "I didn't need to use the phone anyway". Scary.

After giving it some thought however and watching the episode again on Youtube, I'm starting to think the boyfriend did it. Here's why...

She called him from a payphone, even though she was just seven blocks from his house???

They stayed on the phone for over half an hour??? Hummm...

She gives her boyfriend every detail about this scary man hanging around watchin her; (ex. what he looks like, the decal in the trucks window, what he's wearing and his physical description)...but she NEVER gives him the license plate number???

Also what UM doesn't say, is that this girl was FOUR MONTHS PREGGERS at the time of her dissapperance and he, was a star ball player headed for a great college career.

Also, all this happened on a Saturday night in Missouri yet one saw her on the payphone, no one has ever seen this mystery truck with a fish decal in the back window and no one saw the boyfriend chasing the truck on a busy street near down town on a Saturday night??? Hummm....

I initially believed his story and felt sorry for him however, after all the recent men killing their pregnant wives and/or non-pregnant girlfriends, (ex. Scott Peterson, Mark Hacking, Drew Peterson etc...). It's all too possible the boyfriend did it and to this day, he thinks he's gotten away with it.

There's another video on Youtube that says they have found some DNA in the case that their testing which could lead to the killer. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it leads back to the boyfriend.

Her body still has not been found and the boyfriend has dropped off the face of the earth. This case still haunts me and probably always will.

She called him from a payphone, even though she was just seven blocks from his house???


According to her own brother when he posted here, Angela didn't have a phone in her home. She and Rob had planned on going out that evening, but she was calling to say she was tired and planned to return to her home, bathe and go to bed. He was watching his younger brother.


They stayed on the phone for over half an hour??? Hummm...


A young couple in love. I've stayed on the phone for HOURS over girls I was just crushing on. Also, it was about exactly half an hour or a little less--The segment if I remember correctly says she got on the phone at around 11:15pm, and was abducted at around 11:45pm.


She gives her boyfriend every detail about this scary man hanging around watchin her; (ex. what he looks like, the decal in the trucks window, what he's wearing and his physical description)...but she NEVER gives him the license plate number???


He may have asked what the guy looks like when Angela mentioned him and her uneasiness about him and his presence. She mentioned the truck likely when it was circuling as it probably seemed odd.

"There's this truck circling around the parking lot, over and over. It's kind of odd."

"What's the truck look like?"

"It's a green Ford pick up truck, old fashioned, like 60s or '70s or something like that. It's got this fish jumping out of water decal in the back window."*

Neither of them were likely seriously expecting him to suddenly grab and abduct her. He was probably perceived by Angela as an odd man, but little more.

Remember, this is 1991, in a small town. Serial killers and abductors were not as well known as they are today in the safety sense. Abductions were not common events in tiny, "everyone knows everyone" towns, and the people in small towns like Clinton are much more trusting as such. It isn't like a large city where violent crime is common and the worst of people is to be expected and even feared. As the time went on that he was hanging around there, he probably looked less and less suspicious to Angela. No reason to give the license plate number.


Also what UM doesn't say, is that this girl was FOUR MONTHS PREGGERS at the time of her dissapperance and he, was a star ball player headed for a great college career.


UM omits some details that might make the victim look 'bad.' in many cases. A 20 year old unmarried girl being pregnant was and is taboo, and was even more taboo back then, and might've given viewers the wrong idea about Angela, or even worse, made them feel apathetic. Perhaps the family didn't want the fact that their daughter was unwed, young and pregnant released as it'd have given the wrong impression about Angela, and they might've considered it private business.

As to Rob, they did mention he was preparing for a military career and did show photos of him in his ball team uniform.


Also, all this happened on a Saturday night in Missouri yet one saw her on the payphone, no one has ever seen this mystery truck with a fish decal in the back window and no one saw the boyfriend chasing the truck on a busy street near down town on a Saturday night??? Hummm....


1) The town was a TINY, bum**** town in Missouri. The population as of 2000 was only 9,000. I imagine it was even less in 1990/1991. I once lived in a small town which was much bigger in population than Clinton, and let me tell you, in the late 90s, early '00s in my town, even the town center was pretty dead at night.

2) Witnesses, probably around or in the Parking Lot (remember, Angela was just outside the LARGE parking lot of a food store--Probably not overly crowded, especially at night in a tiny town) DID report seeing a mysterious bearded/mustachioed man who fit the exact description Angela gave. They provided additional information that it seems Angela didn't, such as the fact that he was wearing a dark colored ball cap and eyeglasses.


I initially believed his story and felt sorry for him however, after all the recent men killing their pregnant wives and/or non-pregnant girlfriends, (ex. Scott Peterson, Mark Hacking, Drew Peterson etc...). It's all too possible the boyfriend did it and to this day, he thinks he's gotten away with it.


The timeline of the whole event kind of goes against the idea that Rob did it. The timeline of the whole thing doesn't fit for him to have killed her, buried or destroyed her body in such a way that has never been found, damage his car's transmission, leave it exactly where he reported losing the abductor's truck, and make it to the police station in just half an hour.


There's another video on Youtube that says they have found some DNA in the case that their testing which could lead to the killer. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it leads back to the boyfriend.

Her body still has not been found and the boyfriend has dropped off the face of the earth. This case still haunts me and probably always will.

That video of which you speak is over TWO YEARS old. If the information led back to Rob, he would've been arrested by now. The fact that no follow up report was made means, to me, it either points to someone who is not in the police system (meaning the abductor is still free), or it was too little or too damaged to be useful. They never even said what exactly this DNA evidence was--Was it blood? Hair? A cigarette butt? Fingerprints? Skin particles from the struggle? Angela's body, or some kind of remains?

The boyfriend is reported as living in a different state from Missouri and is married. He didn't go into hiding or "drop off the face of the Earth." He just eventually went on with his life.

I'm sure that to this day the experience was an incredibly traumatic one for him, probably one he feels guilty about to some degree even today, just as he did in 1991, due to his inability to save her. It's one that probably crosses his mind occasionally I'd imagine, I'm sure he had flashbacks when the 20th anniversary of it just passed last month.

I'd imagine that Angela's abduction is not an experience he wants to relive mentally or emotionally by being in the tiny town of Clinton, where it all happened and where I'm sure MANY gossiped, finger pointed and talked about him behind his back and in their own minds considered him guilty, regardless of any evidence.

I imagine that back in 1991 even before Angela was abducted, many of these same people probably talked about him behind his back for dating and getting Angela pregnant in the first place--Such being the nature of small, country towns, and the controversial nature (again, especially in small, cliqueish towns where everyone knows everyone and gossip runs rampart) of unwed, young pregnancies.

*= We don't know if Angela gave the extra detail about the fish decal, or if Rob did after the chase. If it took up the whole rear window as Rob claimed, it'd have been noticed since he was following the truck.

I've considered the License plate issue. Sometimes, boat balls on the back of trucks can partially obscure a License Plate; enough to obscure it on a dark night. Going along with the fisherman angle, the abductor could've owned a boat, would've used the boat balls to tow it to a river or dock.

Also, I don't think early '70s or late '60s Pick Ups had rear License Plate lights, lighting and making visible the License plate in the dark, as more modern trucks do.

It may be as simple as that she (and Rob) just couldn't get the plate number.

In January, a policeman was killed 1 1/2 miles from my house by a white guy (and his accomplice brother) who were career criminals committing a daytime home invasion robbery. Those guys both got caught. One of them got dead.

About a month after the policeman's murder, I observed 2 white guys casing my house in broad daylight. Same MO as those cop killers. I live on a small private road that's hard to find and there are only three houses on my isolated section of the road.

I won't go into too many details, but after deciding that no one was home and spending over 5 minutes pointing at different parts of my house, they finally pulled out of the driveway.

I could see that their newer model silver Jeep SUV had a Michigan license plate, but I couldn't see the numbers. They were about 80 feet away, at the end of my driveway, when they positioned the car so that I could see the back plate. Michigan doesn't require front plates on cars.

I had an unobstructed view, but they were just too far away, even in the day time and just at the end of my driveway. Sometimes, you just can't see the numbers, even if you're trying.

You guys are bringing up some very, very , very, valid points. I just can't figure it though. Seems like after chasing this guy for over a mile, he could have gotten a piece of the license plate number or maybe even blew his horn to draw attention to the guy. I mean if it's a small town like everyone's saying, neighbors would have known it was him and that he was in some sort of trouble/distress.

I know he drove to the police station to report it but back then, there would've been pay phones on every corner. Why didn't he call instead of driving to the station to say, "Hey! My g/f was just abducted! They're going east on whatever road. Hurry!!!!"

I just can't believe nobody saw him chasing this vehicle on a a Sat night near downtown. It's a small town, I get that, but there would be some kids hanging out or a couple walking or some homeless person laying around. Something or somebody would have seen this kid chasing this guy.

Also, what about the folks in the store who said they saw a suspicious breaded man in a truck just before she was taken. In a small town folks are VERY nosy. Someone would have jotted down the plate number, (especially since they all said he looked suspicious) and why did they just see him but not see her. Wasn't she next to the store on a Sat night???

I just went back to the UM website and revisited the story. It mentioned police were investigating this solely based on Rob's statement. So the time line could have been been off a bit right?

Someone from an earlier post, mentioned her friend dropped her off at the payphone but the segment from the show on youtube has her driving and dropping the b/f off at home to baby-sit. What happened to her car? If she was driving, just go to his house. If a friend dropped her at the booth then, it still doesn't make sense. If she was too tired to hang out with him, why did she have her friend just leave her at a payphone? Why not call him from home and cancel? Was she assuming his mom was back and that he'd come pick her up from the store? If so, why not just have her friend drop her at his place to begin with? Also, if she was last seen at 11:45 p.m. and he reported her missing shortly after, why doesn't anybody else see this car speeding to get the hell out of town and if she screamed, "Robbie!!!!!", Why didn't she keep screaming through the town to alert someone else???

I pray for this girl every time I think of her. With all the sex trafficking going on, who knows if she's even still alive somewhere. So very sad for her family.

You've given me something to think about however and believe me, it took me YEARS to become suspicious of the b/f. I mean, I believed Susan Smith when she gave that press conference about her son's being abducted. I believed Scott Peterson didn't do it. After all, he was so handsome and charming right?. If that isn't enough, I believed Mark Hacking couldn't have possibly killed his pretty young wife. Of course he got into law school. Who'd lie about that? And to top it all off, I believed, what's his face? The guy who shot his American wife and 5 month old baby)? I think it was Ant-whistle or something.

You guys probably saw through all of them as soon as you heard the stories but I guess I take people at face value too much. I might need to work on that, you think?

I said all that to say, I by no means am the first to convict someone in the court of opinion but I just get a strange feeling about this Hammond case. Maybe the b/f and the girl who supposedly dropped her off at the phone booth were secretly seeing each other and wanted to get rid of her and the baby and they lied about the whole thing. Maybe all these witnesses were mistaken. It happens a lot. People see things and when questioned further it's either the wrong day or they wanted the reward money. I guess well never know.

May God bless Angie wherever she's at.

And thanks for responding back...

I just went back to the UM website and revisited the story. It mentioned police were investigating this solely based on Rob's statement. So the time line could have been been off a bit right?

Someone from an earlier post, mentioned her friend dropped her off at the payphone but the segment from the show on youtube has her driving and dropping the b/f off at home to baby-sit. What happened to her car? If she was driving, just go to his house. If a friend dropped her at the booth then, it still doesn't make sense.

My memory is rusty on this. I think it's been nearly a year since I've read through this thread.

I believe the officials can narrow down the actual timeline based on phone records, among other things, since Rob says that he and Angela were on the phone at the time of the abduction.

I'm not positive, but I think what happened with the "dropping off" a friend thing is that Angela was not the person dropped off at the phone booth. Angela was with a female friend. Angela dropped the friend off at her home. She then went to the phone booth, in her own car, to call Rob. After that, she planned on driving home to her mom's house.

Correct me, guys, if I got any of that wrong...

My memory is rusty on this. I think it's been nearly a year since I've read through this thread.

I believe the officials can narrow down the actual timeline based on phone records, among other things, since Rob says that he and Angela were on the phone at the time of the abduction.

I'm not positive, but I think what happened with the "dropping off" a friend thing is that Angela was not the person dropped off at the phone booth. Angela was with a female friend. Angela dropped the friend off at her home. She then went to the phone booth, in her own car, to call Rob. After that, she planned on driving home to her mom's house.

Correct me, guys, if I got any of that wrong...

You've got it correct.

abt 10pm: Angie drops Rob home. They had attended a BBQ that day together. Angie is to go out for a bit with her best friend, Kyla, after which she and Rob are to go out on the town. Rob has to babysit his little brother. According to the UM segment, Angie promised she'd call later that night.

11pm: After ''trucking around'', Angie drops off Kyla at her home. She's tired, apparently, and instead of going out as planned intends to go home, take a bath, and go to bed. This was apparently confirmed by Kyla.

11:15pm: Angela calls Rob from a payphone which is on a corner, just outside of the parking lot of the Food Barne Store, address 210 South 2nd Street. It's now a car dealership. Sometime during the phone call, a truck begins suspiciously circling. For how long the truck circled before it pulled up is unknown.

11:45pm: Angela is abducted. Rob leaves and chases the perp for about 1-2 miles; his car dies at the corner of Calvird Drive (sometimes spelled Culvert in news articles, but Google Maps has no "Culvert Drive." Perhaps the name has changed or Calvird is the correct spelling), at which the Perp makes a sharp turn.

12am: Rob arrives at the police station. Sometime later, police find Angela's car in the parking lot of the Food Barne Store, right near the phone booth.

I have never believed that Rob did it. Aside from his genuine sincerity in the interview, I just cannot believe that he (at his age, with so little time, so little evidence left behind) could have committed murder and then placed the body into a position where it has not been found after 20 years- and to top it all off, then race back to town and deliberately damage his transmission.
i am with you here, i just cant see it either, if Rob did it there would be alot of mistakes.
Instead of swearing and name-calling, maybe you should let the adults talk? Of course there are such things as random murders, however it's not that common, and if you think it is, then it seems you get all of your news from Unsolved Mysteries.
Well, the reason the poster is doing that is they are TIRED of posting the SAME thing. We have said it and people dont either listen or care. As for not common random murders. the I70 killer, New Hampsire killer, those are just two killers who were random.
My biggest problem either way is all of the 'evidence' we have (if you can call it evidence) is from one person's mouth; with no corroboration that I know of...Do the police have more information than we know of? I hope so, but I'm not sure I'd count on it...
MY biggest problem is the fact that Rob had VERY little time to do his and was very young (which means the body or some evidence WOULD'VE been found). IF Rob did this he would've been caught, the problem is the body hasnt been found which leads ME to believe that someone else did this. they would've found a mistake in Rob if he did this.

I'm neither in the "Rob did it" crowd, nor am I pointing the finger at anyone, I am simply trying to be objective. How do I think he would have pulled it off? I wouldn't know, I'm not a murderer, how does anybody get away with murder? A little luck? a crime committed, a made-up story, and little evidence...Maybe that's how they get away with it...
Here's my deal. i am objective too!!! BUT i just cant see how Rob could've done this. Some dude said he damaged his transmission on purpose, WHAT!? that's just stupid. IF Rob did it, why not just say you talked to her and then hung up??? why make up the "crazy" story??? People say the story is crazy and he is, but it's crazier to make up a story like that when all he has to do is say i didnt talk to her or we talked, hung up and she left.
Why not just go the safer route, go to his home and say he talked to her, and she said she was just going to go home for the evening and that was the last time he talked to her. Why the elaborate "chase" story?
EXACTLY!!! Why make up this chase story??? why not just deny this or deny that.

I do wonder if she is still alive.
Not likely, of course, but perhaps kidnapped and sold into sexual slavery. I don't know which scenario is more horrible--being likely raped, possibly tortured, and inevitably brutally killed, or living a life of sexual slavery...But if she's alive...there's some hope.

It's a very unlikely option statistically when it comes to adult female abductions, in which usually the victim is murdered not long after being abducted...But there are plenty of unexplored, wild places in the Ozarks, where real creepos could reside in great obscurity and isolation.

If Rush and Chaney and/or their associates did not kill her, then I believe her body is somewhere in the Ozarks or thereabouts. I have read there are a great many unexplored caves, unregistered/abandoned wells, and the like in the Ozarks, with a huge connection of caves being found only recently. The area itself is full of forests, hills, etc. Perfect dumping sites which would ensure a very hard time finding any body.

I would imagine that beyond Angie, there's quite a few bodies in the Ozarks....In any case, I would never enter that region in the night.

They stayed on the phone for over half an hour??? Hummm...
Young love before cell phones.
She gives her boyfriend every detail about this scary man hanging around watchin her; but she NEVER gives him the license plate number???
Wasnt paying much attention to it at the time, she likely didnt think this man would kidnap her
Seems like after chasing this guy for over a mile, he could have gotten a piece of the license plate number or maybe even blew his horn to draw attention to the guy.
again, he wasnt likely paying attention, all he thought about was getting to the guy, he didnt think what could happen to me or what to do when he gets close.
Also, what about the folks in the store who said they saw a suspicious breaded man in a truck just before she was taken. In a small town folks are VERY nosy. Someone would have jotted down the plate number.
again, they likely didnt think he was a kidnapper, i seen suspicious dudes before, but i dont follow them and write down their plates.
It mentioned police were investigating this solely based on Rob's statement. So the time line could have been been off a bit right?
i dont think the time line is off, but i also dont forget the fact that he's only a young man and if he did this, it would be his first murder which means mistakes. why hasnt her body been found???
You've given me something to think about however and believe me, it took me YEARS to become suspicious of the b/f.
and i think you should take more years. the only way i become suspicious of the Boyfriend is if the body is found right near his backyard or a place he knows, but i think (if Angela is dead) she was taken out of town by an ugly loner who saw an opportunity and took it.

Ohhh, o.k. That makes more sense. I can see the timeline a little clearer now. Wow. You guys are on top of it. I thought I was the only one haunted by this case.

I can't imagine what Rob must be feeling even after all these years. If he's innocent, this must still be killing him to some degree inside. Also, poor Angie was probably wondering why Rob stopped chasing after her. She may have thought he was still behind her and that soon the cops would be coming to save her.

I know it's unlikely this late in the game but I hope she's alive somewhere w/ no memory of this and happy as can be. I can always hope can't I?

The only time I've seen anything about the 'two witnesses seeing the green truck' is from a passing post telling the story. I've never seen a police report or even a media story regarding witnesses. It almost seems to be a later addition to the story...Why does there have to be a history of violence? If there were a history of violence would you be less likely to believe his story? If that's the case, then we are just believing stories without evidence...I'm neither in the "Rob did it" crowd, nor am I pointing the finger at anyone, I am simply trying to be objective. You can come to all of the conclusions you want, you have all the answers. How do I think he would have pulled it off? I wouldn't know, I'm not a murderer, how does anybody get away with murder? A little luck? A small town police department? Many factors I'm sure, but all of them have similar things in common, a crime committed, a made-up story, and little evidence...Maybe that's how they get away with it...

Actually there was a media story about the other witnesses who saw the truck and it came originally from the police dept. If you bothered to read through the forum before shooting your mouth off you would have known that. And also if you where truly objective you would have looked into the case a little deeper and have the information that you seek instead of posting stupid **** and wasting everyones time.

So Rob just needed a little Luck to kill his girlfriend, dispose of her body leaving no evidence, disable his vehicle and go make up an abduction story to the police within an hour? Wow thats one lucky guy.
Let us know what other cases you solve Mr 17 posts LMAO

i am with you here, i just cant see it either, if Rob did it there would be alot of mistakes.

Well, the reason the poster is doing that is they are TIRED of posting the SAME thing. We have said it and people dont either listen or care. As for not common random murders. the I70 killer, New Hampsire killer, those are just two killers who were random.

MY biggest problem is the fact that Rob had VERY little time to do his and was very young (which means the body or some evidence WOULD'VE been found). IF Rob did this he would've been caught, the problem is the body hasnt been found which leads ME to believe that someone else did this. they would've found a mistake in Rob if he did this.

We all know whats up here and we are use to it by now but it does get irritating. About every 3 or 4 months some jerk off comes into this forum with their first post talking about how they watched the episode and they think Rob was involved because of the way he looked into the camera or because the story is far fetched, or because he should have got the plate number, or because she was pregnant, or because they where on a pay phone for 30 minutes etc etc etc. Obviously they didnt bother to read into the forum in the least before posting because these issues have all been discussed at great length. People who actually knew Rob and Angie have posted her as well as Angela's family members. I think they are reliable sources.

As for the list of random killers list that you started lets add the Green River Killer (Ridgeway) along with the many other serial killers in the WA ( Yates, burgess,etc) area along with Ted Bundy, Otis Toole, Zodiac, Henry lee Lucas, BTK (Dennis Rader) Dahmer, Richard Ramirez, Dayle Wayne Eaton, Son of sam, Ed Kemper etc etc. All these people comitted many random abductions and or murders and this list barely scratches the surface. But I guess our new poster is right about random killings being so rare lol. I mean it just never happens right?

We all know whats up here and we are use to it by now but it does get irritating. About every 3 or 4 months some jerk off comes into this forum with their first post talking about how they watched the episode and they think Rob was involved because of the way he looked into the camera or because the story is far fetched, or because he should have got the plate number, or because she was pregnant, or because they where on a pay phone for 30 minutes etc etc etc. Obviously they didnt bother to read into the forum in the least before posting because these issues have all been discussed at great length. People who actually knew Rob and Angie have posted her as well as Angela's family members. I think they are reliable sources.

As for the list of random killers list that you started lets add the Green River Killer (Ridgeway) along with the many other serial killers in the WA ( Yates, burgess,etc) area along with Ted Bundy, Otis Toole, Zodiac, Henry lee Lucas, BTK (Dennis Rader) Dahmer, Richard Ramirez, Dayle Wayne Eaton, Son of sam, Ed Kemper etc etc. All these people comitted many random abductions and or murders and this list barely scratches the surface. But I guess our new poster is right about random killings being so rare lol. I mean it just never happens right?
Nobody said random murders never happen, if they did say that, please point it out...Of course they happen...However, almost all murders are from one party known to the other...We can all name serial killers and random murders, but these are much the exception, we all know that (or we haven't done our homework, watched the news, or bother to pay any attention to anything else except the UM show)...I have gone back and looked at the thread in the beginning. We should all read what Kane had to say just a few years ago...Interesting...Going from one side of the fence to the other, and now resorting to name calling when people want to discuss the case...It's quite a regression...

Nobody said random murders never happen, if they did say that, please point it out...
i know you didnt say that, but you said they were rare and they are, BUT i personally believe that this is the work of a guy who has done this type of crime before. the fact that the body hasnt been found and the fact that the crime seems to be perfect is why i think this guy either killed or kidnapped before. i am NOT attacking you Sundance because you seem to just be looking on the other side than just flat out say Rob did it, BUT if you havent read there are some who will say Rob did it until they are blue in the face. one poster even said that Rob damaged his transmission on purpose which is just insane in my book. i know it could help with an alibi, but there are much better ways to make up an alibi than damage you own car like that. The story is far fetched, i admit it, but it doesnt mean it cant happen and i think it did, i think the guy who did this is a loner, possibly a fisherman type guy who came to town saw an opportunity and took it.

Nobody said random murders never happen, if they did say that, please point it out...Of course they happen...However, almost all murders are from one party known to the other...We can all name serial killers and random murders, but these are much the exception, we all know that (or we haven't done our homework, watched the news, or bother to pay any attention to anything else except the UM show)...I have gone back and looked at the thread in the beginning. We should all read what Kane had to say just a few years ago...Interesting...Going from one side of the fence to the other, and now resorting to name calling when people want to discuss the case...It's quite a regression...

That is right, Someone's opinion can change as more information becomes available. See unlike you, I dont form an opinion and then ignore anything that might counter it. I keep an open mind and actually listen to people that might have more understanding of a case then I do. Your the one not doing your homework. Your way of thinking is what causes innocent people to go to jail. Reminds me of when one of BTK's victims husband was almost charged with murder because ofcourse random killing is so rare and the story so far fetched.
Angela's abduction is much like other random abductions. Infact its alot like the abduction of Trudy Darby, Cheryl Kinney, Lisa Marie Kimmel, Springfield three etc etc. This is why the story is not so far fetched. What is far fetched is the idea that Rob and Angie where at a bbq getting along fine, then she drops him off to babysit and calls him a few hours later, he then decides he will kill her, ( and if you want to use pregnancy as a motive then explain why he put a ring on her finger) goes down to the phone booth, kills her in some fashion and then disposes of her body, disables his vehicle and then like any good killer would do he heads right for the police station.

i know you didnt say that, but you said they were rare and they are, BUT i personally believe that this is the work of a guy who has done this type of crime before. the fact that the body hasnt been found and the fact that the crime seems to be perfect is why i think this guy either killed or kidnapped before. i am NOT attacking you Sundance because you seem to just be looking on the other side than just flat out say Rob did it, BUT if you havent read there are some who will say Rob did it until they are blue in the face. one poster even said that Rob damaged his transmission on purpose which is just insane in my book. i know it could help with an alibi, but there are much better ways to make up an alibi than damage you own car like that. The story is far fetched, i admit it, but it doesnt mean it cant happen and i think it did, i think the guy who did this is a loner, possibly a fisherman type guy who came to town saw an opportunity and took it.
Yeah, I would subscribe to that also, if I had to bet on it, some criminal or ex-con maybe...It's impossible to close off all possibilities when we just don't know...I have no opinion on this one way or another, I'm just posing questions...Looks like someone else is the one with the opinions, the closed mind...I'm still not sure why we take rare occurances and pose them as the norm...Just because something happens rarely does not mean that's what we should look at right away, human nature maybe? "It happens" is not a good enough argument...

Everyone seems to be forgetting that in 1991 in Missouri there were women who were getting abducted from abandoned convenience stores after they were closed. Trudy Darby (who's murder was solved), Cheryl Kenney, and Angela Hammond were all taken from convenience store parking lots after hours. There are several people (including law enforcement officials close to the case) who have the opinion that these are all the work of the same people. And for those who accept Rob's guilt, do they also entertain the fact that he's a serial killer? The whole "Rob is guilty" thing is so ludicrous I can't believe people still believe it.

i am NOT attacking you Sundance because you seem to just be looking on the other side than just flat out say Rob did it, BUT if you havent read there are some who will say Rob did it until they are blue in the face. one poster even said that Rob damaged his transmission on purpose which is just insane in my book.

First, welcome to the board, Sundance. I'm currently doing lots of work so I sometimes don't notice when new posters join, so I apologize in the delay in saying hello.

Secondly, I agree with carolina--it seems to me you are simply looking from a different angle on the case and of course there is nothing at all wrong with that (that's why we're here, after all--to exchange ideas), but, at the risk of speaking for the entire board, this thread is not only one of the longest and most read, but one of the most heated. A few posters, for whatever reason, are bound and determined to convince everyone that Rob is responsible, but often cannot provide much evidence besides "he was close to her." You are absolutely correct in your assertion that most murder victims know their killers and random homicides and abductions are rare--that's why they make news headlines, after all. But that doesn't negate the fact that they DO occur, as mwcarolina and kane7474 have pointed out. I think there is overwhelming evidence to suggest that Angela was abducted by a stranger rather than her fiance. These threads are often chock-full of news articles and posts from family members or those close to the case. They often fill in the gaps the UM segments leave.

In any event, welcome again to the board. :)

Everyone seems to be forgetting that in 1991 in Missouri there were women who were getting abducted from abandoned convenience stores after they were closed. Trudy Darby (who's murder was solved), Cheryl Kenney, and Angela Hammond were all taken from convenience store parking lots after hours. There are several people (including law enforcement officials close to the case) who have the opinion that these are all the work of the same people. And for those who accept Rob's guilt, do they also entertain the fact that he's a serial killer? The whole "Rob is guilty" thing is so ludicrous I can't believe people still believe it.
After reading that article from a couple years back, it seems to me that the police (now, not then) think that these are separate incidents...It was a popular theory then, but as investigations go on and crimes are solved it looks like they don't like that theory quite as much...Does anybody know how big the police department is in this town? Sounds like it might be quite small and that's why they were slow to react that night...I love the name MegtheEgg by the way!

We all know whats up here and we are use to it by now but it does get irritating. About every 3 or 4 months some jerk off comes into this forum with their first post talking about how they watched the episode and they think Rob was involved because of the way he looked into the camera or because the story is far fetched, or because he should have got the plate number, or because she was pregnant, or because they where on a pay phone for 30 minutes etc etc etc. Obviously they didnt bother to read into the forum in the least before posting because these issues have all been discussed at great length. People who actually knew Rob and Angie have posted her as well as Angela's family members. I think they are reliable sources.

As for the list of random killers list that you started lets add the Green River Killer (Ridgeway) along with the many other serial killers in the WA ( Yates, burgess,etc) area along with Ted Bundy, Otis Toole, Zodiac, Henry lee Lucas, BTK (Dennis Rader) Dahmer, Richard Ramirez, Dayle Wayne Eaton, Son of sam, Ed Kemper etc etc. All these people comitted many random abductions and or murders and this list barely scratches the surface. But I guess our new poster is right about random killings being so rare lol. I mean it just never happens right?
Well everyone is entitled to an opinion, not everyone will be Andy Griffith, there has to be a Barney Fife. ;)
All jokes aside, I will never think Rob did anything, except act out of protective instinct. He did the best that he could at the time, sadly his car did not have as much vigor as he did.
That is why I think Angela described the man in the truck. I am sure that as soon as she said a stranger was near her, circling in the dark, Rob started asking questions. My husband would be the same way. So would my father, brother, male friend, etc. Honestly, I would ask my friend who was circling her or him.... For the nay sayers, you have to get out of the mindset "but if that was me, I would never be at a phone booth late at night"..... she did, it happened, and she is gone. It's not about why she was there,then;rather, it's where is she now?

Well everyone is entitled to an opinion, not everyone will be Andy Griffith, there has to be a Barney Fife. ;)
All jokes aside, I will never think Rob did anything, except act out of protective instinct. He did the best that he could at the time, sadly his car did not have as much vigor as he did.
That is why I think Angela described the man in the truck. I am sure that as soon as she said a stranger was near her, circling in the dark, Rob started asking questions. My husband would be the same way. So would my father, brother, male friend, etc. Honestly, I would ask my friend who was circling her or him.... For the nay sayers, you have to get out of the mindset "but if that was me, I would never be at a phone booth late at night"..... she did, it happened, and she is gone. It's not about why she was there,then;rather, it's where is she now?
Exactly right. She was alone in a desolated area on a pay phone. This is a small town where everyone knows everyone and a complete stranger circles the parking lot several times then pulls in near her and is messing around in his truck. You think she isnt going to describe whats going on to the guy she's on the phone with? Ofcourse she is because it was very odd for a stranger to be there at that time of night.

Exactly right. She was alone in a desolated area on a pay phone. This is a small town where everyone knows everyone and a complete stranger circles the parking lot several times then pulls in near her and is messing around in his truck. You think she isnt going to describe whats going on to the guy she's on the phone with? Ofcourse she is because it was very odd for a stranger to be there at that time of night.

Exactly.
I wonder if we could get the 1990 census records for Clinton...In 2000, there were only 9,000 people living in Clinton, MO. I'd imagine there were even less in 1991.

Everyone seems to be forgetting that in 1991 in Missouri there were women who were getting abducted from abandoned convenience stores after they were closed. Trudy Darby (who's murder was solved), Cheryl Kenney, and Angela Hammond were all taken from convenience store parking lots after hours. There are several people (including law enforcement officials close to the case) who have the opinion that these are all the work of the same people. And for those who accept Rob's guilt, do they also entertain the fact that he's a serial killer? The whole "Rob is guilty" thing is so ludicrous I can't believe people still believe it.
No one is forgetting as I just mentioned them in the above post. I still think they are connected regardless of the fact that the Clinton police dont seem to hold that belief.

Exactly.
I wonder if we could get the 1990 census records for Clinton...In 2000, there were only 9,000 people living in Clinton, MO. I'd imagine there were even less in 1991.
Right. Im sure it was alot less in 91. Also to the people that keep saying that its odd that no one else heard the chase let me say this. How many of you have heard stories of how a home was broken into and robbed in broad daylight and none of the neighbors saw anything out of the ordinary?? I have heard of this happening many times. Infact some relatives of mine recently had a break in during the day with people home on all sides of them. Not one person saw or heard a thing. Happens all the time. So its not so unthinkable that no one heard two vehicles driving fast at 11 pm on a weeknight in an area where there is few homes.

So its not so unthinkable that no one heard two vehicles driving fast at 11 pm on a weeknight in an area where there is few homes.

I agree. It was almost midnight when she was abducted on a Thursday in a small town. It's a miracle that there were even witnesses to the truck driving around. There's no doubt in my mind the town was desolate at the time she was abducted.

I agree. It was almost midnight when she was abducted on a Thursday in a small town. It's a miracle that there were even witnesses to the truck driving around. There's no doubt in my mind the town was desolate at the time she was abducted.

I agree as well. Kind of funny anecdote: I was out of town staying with relatives this past winter and accidentally locked myself out of the house while everyone else was gone. It was quite cold outside, so I wandered all around the perimeter of the house for nearly half an hour trying to decide what my best point of entry would be. I ended up climbing up to and through an unlocked (and very narrow) bathroom window. I was almost certain someone was going to call the police, as I was pretty much a stranger to everyone else in the neighborhood and I assume appeared pretty suspicious walking all around the house like that--and then climbing right through a window. I basically broke into the house in broad daylight with not so much as a peep from anyone else!

Exactly right. She was alone in a desolated area on a pay phone. This is a small town where everyone knows everyone and a complete stranger circles the parking lot several times then pulls in near her and is messing around in his truck. You think she isnt going to describe whats going on to the guy she's on the phone with? Ofcourse she is because it was very odd for a stranger to be there at that time of night.
The truck that was used was so distinct, it really irked me that they did not get a hit on the description. Especially with a description of the man.
Also, I know this is a long shot, but if I was the police I would have hit as many gas stations as I could. That kidnapper had to fill up for gas, sooner than later in an old gas guzzling truck. They should have checked scrap yards too, but I think checking gas stations may have been a great idea trying to catch him fleeing the area.

The truck that was used was so distinct, it really irked me that they did not get a hit on the description. Especially with a description of the man.
Also, I know this is a long shot, but if I was the police I would have hit as many gas stations as I could. That kidnapper had to fill up for gas, sooner than later in an old gas guzzling truck. They should have checked scrap yards too, but I think checking gas stations may have been a great idea trying to catch him fleeing the area.

I was considering this whole thing with someone else:
I think the guy was a local. Not a Clinton resident, but he at least lived a town or so over. He was in Clinton for a REASON--not simply to abduct women. He was there for a primary purpose, and was coming from somewhere. Maybe for a job? To visit family or friends? To do some fishing?

Think--what would motivate a person, even yes a serial killer, to come through a tiny town? There had to be a primary purpose. He knew someone in Clinton, or had an opportunity there; again, a job or whatever. Maybe he came down there to fish once in a while; perhaps there was a community of fishermen back then. Or he was a part-time worker of some sort--very blue collar. Either way, people don't come to tiny towns for no reason, even if you're a loony who abducts women.

Was he prowling for women, or was Angela simply picked due to pure coincidence and opportunity? Something to consider--Was he driven to get a woman that night; if it wasn't Angela, would it have been another girl? Or was it simply totally coincidence?

I've pointed this out before, but the area around where Angie's abductor was headed in the chase has many lakes, rivers and forrested areas. And, if we could get perhaps an idea of where he was coming FROM, when he came upon the parking lot, we can get an idea of where he was going.

I believe he was someone who had at least been in Clinton quite a few times before. He might've come there regularly or semi-regularly. He knew the tiny town enough to know the back roads which led to a major highway. He knew the town enough not to get lost at a dead end in the heat of the chase.

Someone in Clinton at the time knew him. Maybe they didn't know what he did, or who he REALLY was, but someone knew him and isn't talking. Maybe they still live in Clinton in Missouri. And maybe they do know.

I don't believe this man came from very far away from Clinton. A town or two over, perhaps. A state over, AT MOST.

They did a vehicle check of over 1,000 vehicles like his truck, but I believe they overlooked him in the search. He may not have owned the truck; It could've belonged to a friend, family member or associate. In doing the check, his friend or whoever owned it might've had a clean record, or didn't fit the description given by Angie, and was thus overlooked.

That list of owners in 1991 should be re-looked over, re-checked, their associations and family at the time in 1991 revisited.

The guy knew the area. He was in this tiny town for a reason. The cops have got to look again at their 1991 investigation results.

I was considering this whole thing with someone else:
I think the guy was a local. Not a Clinton resident, but he at least lived a town or so over. He was in Clinton for a REASON--not simply to abduct women. He was there for a primary purpose, and was coming from somewhere. Maybe for a job? To visit family or friends? To do some fishing?

Think--what would motivate a person, even yes a serial killer, to come through a tiny town? There had to be a primary purpose. He knew someone in Clinton, or had an opportunity there; again, a job or whatever. Maybe he came down there to fish once in a while; perhaps there was a community of fishermen back then. Or he was a part-time worker of some sort--very blue collar. Either way, people don't come to tiny towns for no reason, even if you're a loony who abducts women.

Was he prowling for women, or was Angela simply picked due to pure coincidence and opportunity? Something to consider--Was he driven to get a woman that night; if it wasn't Angela, would it have been another girl? Or was it simply totally coincidence?

I've pointed this out before, but the area around where Angie's abductor was headed in the chase has many lakes, rivers and forrested areas. And, if we could get perhaps an idea of where he was coming FROM, when he came upon the parking lot, we can get an idea of where he was going.

I believe he was someone who had at least been in Clinton quite a few times before. He might've come there regularly or semi-regularly. He knew the tiny town enough to know the back roads which led to a major highway. He knew the town enough not to get lost at a dead end in the heat of the chase.

Someone in Clinton at the time knew him. Maybe they didn't know what he did, or who he REALLY was, but someone knew him and isn't talking. Maybe they still live in Clinton in Missouri. And maybe they do know.

I don't believe this man came from very far away from Clinton. A town or two over, perhaps. A state over, AT MOST.

They did a vehicle check of over 1,000 vehicles like his truck, but I believe they overlooked him in the search. He may not have owned the truck; It could've belonged to a friend, family member or associate. In doing the check, his friend or whoever owned it might've had a clean record, or didn't fit the description given by Angie, and was thus overlooked.

That list of owners in 1991 should be re-looked over, re-checked, their associations and family at the time in 1991 revisited.

The guy knew the area. He was in this tiny town for a reason. The cops have got to look again at their 1991 investigation results.
Hey I brought that up in a previous post! I thought maybe because of the way he was dressed, he came through the area because of work. Maybe he was a painter, a handyman, a drywaller, or did pest control.
Perhaps instead, like you suggested, it was to go fishing. Most people usually go to fishing spots that they are familiar with right?
I was also thinking that he could have grown up a town or two away, so he knew how to get out of the area fast. Or that he may have been visiting an elderly parent or parents that lived in the area.

Hey I brought that up in a previous post! I thought maybe because of the way he was dressed, he came through the area because of work. Maybe he was a painter, a handyman, a drywaller, or did pest control.
Perhaps instead, like you suggested, it was to go fishing. Most people usually go to fishing spots that they are familiar with right?
I was also thinking that he could have grown up a town or two away, so he knew how to get out of the area fast. Or that he may have been visiting an elderly parent or parents that lived in the area.

A handyman, painter, electrician (non-certified or certified), janitor, plumber or plumber's helper; part timer at a body shop, a construction laborer, gravedigger or something--something along those lines. Something IN CLINTON. Consider his appearance--Overalls, glasses, ball cap, dirty looking; unshaven. Not a Wall Street person. I'd say he might have a record for some sort of petty offence, maybe drugs or something of that nature. I'd definitely say he was at least a USER of drugs, possibly cocaine; maybe an alcoholic.

Consider this: He had a pick up truck, and a flash light. Now, the flashlight could've been used in prior abductions or future ones, and probably was, as a blunt weapon. But, it could've also been used for work--The type of workman job that would require working in the dark with a flash light, or in dark buildings.

To your point about the fishing--there are as I said a lot of lakes and rivers around where Angela was captured. And further south in Missouri are the Ozarks, where there's plenty of water sources and whatnot. I'm not familiar with MO, or Clinton especially, but the knowledge I do have tells me that there might've been a small community of fishermen. Maybe guys who met every once in a while. Or maybe this guy was a true loner and liked to fish--and hunt, perhaps--alone.

He may not have had had many friends, and the friends he did have may or may not have known about his behavior. May have had a girlfriend. I believe someone of his type would consort with nefarious types; Drug users and the like.

He definitely knew the area, which suggests he'd come through there at least once before--on business? Visiting?

And I don't believe his parents necessarily had to be elderly. The abductor himself could've been a pretty young man--Maybe between ages 20 and 38, let's say. He might be younger than one would think.

And the truck as I said could've belonged to a family member, a friend, an associate. Hell, maybe it was rented and he slapped the decal on there as a decoy. Maybe he isn't a fisherman but whoever really owned the truck was.

The key is the truck. Find it, and find who owned it, and where it went and who might own it now, and you won't be far from finding this man. The truck must be relooked into. With enough effort and time put into it, it can be found. I believe if there's ever any hope of solving this case, it lies with the truck. Even if we could trace it to a prior owner, that is, an owner prior to the abductor or whoever he got it from, that's a good start, that's a big step in the right direction.

Once the truck is found, it's only a matter of time before Angela's abductor is too.

Yeah, I would subscribe to that also, if I had to bet on it, some criminal or ex-con maybe...It's impossible to close off all possibilities when we just don't know
oh, i could see the guy being an ex con or criminal, i think this guy is a serial rapist and could've just passed through the town and saw an opportunity. i agree that we just dont know, BUT the reason i say it's not Rob is many things including timeline and age. most first time killers leave a ton of evidence or gets suspected more, example, Paul Pollis or another Rob in Rob Page, they both acted suspicious.
After reading that article from a couple years back, it seems to me that the police (now, not then) think that these are separate incidents
i tend to think that the guy who did this could be an out of towner or a guy who doesnt even live in Missouri and likely was more careful with other murders/kidnappings he has done, but who knows. like i said i do eliminate Rob for the simple fact that his story maybe odd, it's not impossible, i have heard worse and the fact that the timeline doesnt fit gets me off his case.

The truck that was used was so distinct, it really irked me that they did not get a hit on the description. Especially with a description of the man.
Also, I know this is a long shot, but if I was the police I would have hit as many gas stations as I could. That kidnapper had to fill up for gas, sooner than later in an old gas guzzling truck. They should have checked scrap yards too, but I think checking gas stations may have been a great idea trying to catch him fleeing the area.
I really don't think the truck was distinct at all. I mean first off there where tons of these types of early 70s trucks on the road at this time. Hell I can think of atleast three people at my highschool that had trucks matching this description at the time. Minus the mural though.
When they ran checks for this type of truck they came up with over 1500 matching descriptions in the state. Ofcourse the DMV is not going to have on file if the truck had a mural on the window or not.

No one has ever been able to answer the question as to what the immediate reaction of law enforcement was. I know what should have happened was that an apb should have been put out to every police dept within a hundred mile radius. All counties, cities and Highway patrol should have had a description of the truck as soon as Rob reported the abduction. I really dont think that happened though. I think they blamed Rob off that bat.

The following day they organized search parties to go out into wooded areas around Clinton and basically look for a body. That tells me they suspected Rob. I mean if they beileved someone sped off with her then why check in that area?

oh, i could see the guy being an ex con or criminal, i think this guy is a serial rapist and could've just passed through the town and saw an opportunity. i agree that we just dont know, BUT the reason i say it's not Rob is many things including timeline and age. most first time killers leave a ton of evidence or gets suspected more, example, Paul Pollis or another Rob in Rob Page, they both acted suspicious.

i tend to think that the guy who did this could be an out of towner or a guy who doesnt even live in Missouri and likely was more careful with other murders/kidnappings he has done, but who knows. like i said i do eliminate Rob for the simple fact that his story maybe odd, it's not impossible, i have heard worse and the fact that the timeline doesnt fit gets me off his case.
If you want a profile of Angela's abductor then look at Dayle Wayne Eaton. Loner who lived on property in rural area. He abducted Lisa Kimmel from a restop. Towed her car home and buried it. Killed her and dumped her body and it took 14 years for police to catch up to him and they only got onto him because he attempted another abduction but met up with some people that fought back.

If you want a profile of Angela's abductor then look at Dayle Wayne Eaton. Loner who lived on property in rural area. He abducted Lisa Kimmel from a restop. Towed her car home and buried it. Killed her and dumped her body and it took 14 years for police to catch up to him and they only got onto him because he attempted another abduction but met up with some people that fought back.
yeah i seen that one, it could be him though, but i think the guy who did this might be more unknown. i wouldnt be shocked if he was an ex con and i wouldnt be shocked if he was a con who never been caught either. i think they need to look into if Dayle Wayne Eaton had a truck like the one described.

I think you guys are looking in the wrong direction. Her abductor is someone who knew Clinton, and probably was there semi-regularly; at least more than once. Probably worked or had friends or family there. Workman type. It's pretty obvious. Could be a loner type, but then not necessarily.

Also, I looked up Eaton's mugshot. He does NOT match Angie's abductor at all. Also, Angela's abductor was less methodical than Eaton; Eaton towed his victim's car, buried it, etc. Angela's abductor, for example, left her car alone. Just took her and ran.

Angela's abduction was a very disorganized one; about the only organized aspect of it seems to be him circling to make sure she was alone, and even then--was he circling to ensure she was alone, or circling because he was unsure as to whether he wanted her or not? Was he searching through his truck's cab for a weapon to strike Angie with [to subdue her], or simply to distract Angela's attention? The perp's mind seems very disorganized.

For example, what was the whole point of looking he was going to use the other phone, only to say he'd try back later? That makes no sense and only makes him look suspicious and creepy. If you're a predator, you don't want to make your prey suspicious. That harms your chances of being successful.

Larry Hall fits the profile more. A very disorganized mind, that would perhaps even go into a sort of fugue state when he committed his murders, so much so he couldn't recall most of the details of them. He also 'worked' in the same area (Midwest) in the same period--late '80s to early '90s. Same general MO. Looked similar to what Angie described too. However, he kept 'trophies' from most of his victims--little personal items of theirs--Which in the end helped catch him. Some of his 'trophies' he admitted he dumped, though. His victims could number in the dozens.

I think you guys are looking in the wrong direction. Her abductor is someone who knew Clinton, and probably was there semi-regularly; at least more than once. Probably worked or had friends or family there. Workman type. It's pretty obvious. Could be a loner type, but then not necessarily.
he may have known clinton, but personally, i feel that this guy didnt live there, he may have passed through though before, i just feel that if he lived in Clinton people would know who he was or knew him more.

I think you guys are looking in the wrong direction. Her abductor is someone who knew Clinton, and probably was there semi-regularly; at least more than once. Probably worked or had friends or family there. Workman type. It's pretty obvious. Could be a loner type, but then not necessarily.

Also, I looked up Eaton's mugshot. He does NOT match Angie's abductor at all. Also, Angela's abductor was less methodical than Eaton; Eaton towed his victim's car, buried it, etc. Angela's abductor, for example, left her car alone. Just took her and ran.

Angela's abduction was a very disorganized one; about the only organized aspect of it seems to be him circling to make sure she was alone, and even then--was he circling to ensure she was alone, or circling because he was unsure as to whether he wanted her or not? Was he searching through his truck's cab for a weapon to strike Angie with [to subdue her], or simply to distract Angela's attention? The perp's mind seems very disorganized.

For example, what was the whole point of looking he was going to use the other phone, only to say he'd try back later? That makes no sense and only makes him look suspicious and creepy. If you're a predator, you don't want to make your prey suspicious. That harms your chances of being successful.

Larry Hall fits the profile more. A very disorganized mind, that would perhaps even go into a sort of fugue state when he committed his murders, so much so he couldn't recall most of the details of them. He also 'worked' in the same area (Midwest) in the same period--late '80s to early '90s. Same general MO. Looked similar to what Angie described too. However, he kept 'trophies' from most of his victims--little personal items of theirs--Which in the end helped catch him. Some of his 'trophies' he admitted he dumped, though. His victims could number in the dozens.

Oh Im not saying that Eaton was the culprit here. Im just saying it was someone similar to him in personality and lifestyle.

I know this is going to sound really silly, and Im probably dead wrong, but just for the hell of it I was searching through myspace and stumbled upon this profile, there are no close up photos of this lady, but from far it does look like angela hammond, there is an age difference by 2-3 years, and the birthday is different. I'm sure that her family has searched through various networking websites, but its worth a look, heres the link : http://www.myspace.com/265368756.
I know that its probably not her, and people are going to question why she would run away, the story to me just seems sketchy, just take a look! thanks !

If only...Maybe in another life she'll get the chance to grow older. Sad sad case.

I think that if she ran away and was still alive she'd be more likely to change her first name than her age and birthday. She probably wouldn't be on MySpace, either.

So sad.

bump

Speaking of a truck with a decal. I'm reminded of a case of little girl who got off her school bus and never made it home. Apparently a blue truck with skier .sking on snowy moutains was the decal on this ones back window. Decals were sure big on trucks in the early 80s. Anyone remember this case? I don't remember if it was on unsolved mysteries or not.


P.S. Sorry if i enterupted the topic. I just recalled that both cases had trucks with decals on them.

Speaking of a truck with a decal. I'm reminded of a case of little girl who got off her school bus and never made it home. Apparently a blue truck with skier .sking on snowy moutains was the decal on this ones back window. Decals were sure big on trucks in the early 80s. Anyone remember this case? I don't remember if it was on unsolved mysteries or not.


P.S. Sorry if i enterupted the topic. I just recalled that both cases had trucks with decals on them.

Yep I remember the decals! My grandpa had one on his truck(horses) lol.
But what I found strange was Angela was describing him, his car and his actions. (the way the actress protrayed it) it seemed like she knew something was wrong with the situation.

Yep I remember the decals! My grandpa had one on his truck(horses) lol.
But what I found strange was Angela was describing him, his car and his actions. (the way the actress protrayed it) it seemed like she knew something was wrong with the situation.

The man probably was acting strange. Oviously she did not know him. Speaking of decals, did the cops ever think of it being taken off? Surely there is away to have one removed if you get tried of it. Perhaps they should look up people who own that type of truk with out the decal as well?

We did an article about this case on www.crimekittehs.com (http://www.crimekittehs.com)

Finally! Another decent theory rather than just believing everything the last person to see her said...I will be following your stories Crimekitehs :)

Thanks Sundance. I appreciate that.

We are going to try to update regularly.

I don't really know why UM somewhat distorted the details of this case when presenting because her pregnancy wasn't a secret and it seems like an odd thing to leave out. That isn't a minor detail.

But UM also left out random details in a lot of other cases to make them seem more mysterious I guess. In this case I don't know what purpose the omission served.

Thanks Sundance. I appreciate that.

We are going to try to update regularly.

I don't really know why UM somewhat distorted the details of this case when presenting because her pregnancy wasn't a secret and it seems like an odd thing to leave out. That isn't a minor detail.

But UM also left out random details in a lot of other cases to make them seem more mysterious I guess. In this case I don't know what purpose the omission served.

I hate to say it, but some viewers may be less sympathetic at the though of pre-marital sex/ pregnancy and perhaps that was why? It wouldn't make me (or most of the people on this board) feel less empathy, but you never know. Or could the family have possibly asked for it not to be mentioned?

oh shoot Sundance. I thought you gave up on this board.

that was a joke, btw.;) You find anything new yet? Still suspect her boyfriend?

that was a joke, btw.;) You find anything new yet? Still suspect her boyfriend?

Never!!! :p I will always be here ;) ...Yes, yes I do still suspect him...If this happened today, everybody would, but because we have this crazy back-story that everyone believes (for no real reason) many people don't...We have a pregnant girlfriend (not even his?) We have the last person to see her, and we have a wild story that sounds completely made-up...How could I not suspect him?

It would be interesting if someone that knew her bf posted on here huh? Or someone that knew the dynamics of their relationship maybe. I still think she was abducted by a weirdo......

We have the last person to see her, and we have a wild story that sounds completely made-up...How could I not suspect him?

Everyone suspected him back when Angela was abducted. Yet after an intense investigation, he was cleared by law enforcement. There were witnesses to the same man Angela described to Rob over the phone, which probably helped shift the focus of the investigation away from Rob.

Everyone suspected him back when Angela was abducted. Yet after an intense investigation, he was cleared by law enforcement. There were witnesses to the same man Angela described to Rob over the phone, which probably helped shift the focus of the investigation away from Rob.

I'm not so sure about the witnesses...Going back to the original reports and interviews I can't find any mention of witnesses...It's not until years later and different tellings of the story that witnesses suddenly appear...I'm not so sure they ever existed...However if there were credible witnesses, it would certainly change things...

This is from the DOE network:

"Two witnesses told police they saw a white man with a mustache wearing a dark-colored baseball-style cap sitting in the truck near the telephone booth Hammond was using. The witnesses' description is similar to one Hammond gave her fiance moments before the line went dead."

I'd say that's credible, since there would be no reason to lie. And there were other witnesses who saw the same type of truck (described by the two witnesses who saw the man), continually driving by the telephone booth Angela was using.

BTW, what "original reports" are you referring to?

This is from the DOE network:

"Two witnesses told police they saw a white man with a mustache wearing a dark-colored baseball-style cap sitting in the truck near the telephone booth Hammond was using. The witnesses' description is similar to one Hammond gave her fiance moments before the line went dead."

I'd say that's credible, since there would be no reason to lie. And there were other witnesses who saw the same type of truck (described by the two witnesses who saw the man), continually driving by the telephone booth Angela was using.

BTW, what "original reports" are you referring to?

What I mean is, if you go to Doe, Charlie, Unsolved, missing, etc, all of the stories differ on the witnesses...One says "The police had based their investigation on Rob Shafer's testimony. And when no witnesses could back up his story, Rob himself became a suspect" another says what you stated above, all different...However if you go to the reports from the early 90's (papers, police, etc) before the internet started telling & re-telling the story, there's no mention of witnesses...This makes me wonder if there ever were any witnesses at all...

What I mean is, if you go to Doe, Charlie, Unsolved, missing, etc, all of the stories differ on the witnesses...One says "The police had based their investigation on Rob Shafer's testimony. And when no witnesses could back up his story, Rob himself became a suspect" another says what you stated above, all different...However if you go to the reports from the early 90's (papers, police, etc) before the internet started telling & re-telling the story, there's no mention of witnesses...This makes me wonder if there ever were any witnesses at all...

One person over at the Topix thread about her claimed to be a witness if I'm not mistaken. If not a witness, was in the area at the time:

"My ex husband and I lived just 2 blocks from that location when this nightmare occured.

There was a guy on the corner that had a truck that matched the description exactly but the police did check him out completely. I try and think back if I ever saw one like it after that day myself. "

What I mean is, if you go to Doe, Charlie, Unsolved, missing, etc, all of the stories differ on the witnesses...One says "The police had based their investigation on Rob Shafer's testimony. And when no witnesses could back up his story, Rob himself became a suspect" another says what you stated above, all different...However if you go to the reports from the early 90's (papers, police, etc) before the internet started telling & re-telling the story, there's no mention of witnesses...This makes me wonder if there ever were any witnesses at all...

I would imagine that initially the only witness was Rob himself. But I suppose after some investigating, some other witnesses came forward and corraborated the description of the man and the truck. Which is ultimately what probably led to the police clearing Rob as a suspect.

Watching this episode again for the umpteenth time, I am now shifting my theory to the boyfriend. Although, in the UM episode he seems credible, but I just don't understand why Angie called him from 7 blocks away, especially if they lived together at the time. Does not make sense. I would love to know if any evidence was found at the phone booth and if phone records would help??? Also, was Rob's car checked for transmission problems after this occurred? :confused:

Watching this episode again for the umpteenth time, I am now shifting my theory to the boyfriend. Although, in the UM episode he seems credible, but I just don't understand why Angie called him from 7 blocks away, especially if they lived together at the time. Does not make sense. I would love to know if any evidence was found at the phone booth and if phone records would help??? Also, was Rob's car checked for transmission problems after this occurred? :confused:

His car must have been checked, but how hard is it to hurt a transmission? Not very...A part that I find alarming is there were no neighbors who said Rob came to their door...If you are chasing, and the car breaks down, the first thing you do is go for help; yell, scream, bang on doors, etc...We see none of that here...

Watching this episode again for the umpteenth time, I am now shifting my theory to the boyfriend. Although, in the UM episode he seems credible, but I just don't understand why Angie called him from 7 blocks away, especially if they lived together at the time. Does not make sense. I would love to know if any evidence was found at the phone booth and if phone records would help??? Also, was Rob's car checked for transmission problems after this occurred? :confused:

Angela's brother came on here a few years back and said she used the payphone because Angela had no home telephone. And remember, this is 1991. No cell phones except for the upper, upper middle class.
She left him to go out with her best female friend. Rob was to watch his kid brother. Rob and Angela had planned to go out on the town later that evening and she promised that after dropping off her friend she'd call him. It was around 11:15pm when she got to the telephone and she was tired; she wasn't going to meet up with him and was instead going to go home, bathe and go to bed. We all know what happened next.

Angela's brother came on here a few years back and said she used the payphone because Angela had no home telephone. And remember, this is 1991. No cell phones except for the upper, upper middle class.
She left him to go out with her best female friend. Rob was to watch his kid brother. Rob and Angela had planned to go out on the town later that evening and she promised that after dropping off her friend she'd call him. It was around 11:15pm when she got to the telephone and she was tired; she wasn't going to meet up with him and was instead going to go home, bathe and go to bed. We all know what happened next.

Yes...We do...

His car must have been checked, but how hard is it to hurt a transmission? Not very...A part that I find alarming is there were no neighbors who said Rob came to their door...If you are chasing, and the car breaks down, the first thing you do is go for help; yell, scream, bang on doors, etc...We see none of that here...

You're basing this off of the UM segment and a handful of old articles about the case. We have no way of knowing what Rob did once his car stalled. He very well could have been yelling and screaming for help, or perhaps he ran back to the telephone booth to call 911. How would anyone know the specifics based off of a UM re-enactment?

You're basing this off of the UM segment and a handful of old articles about the case. We have no way of knowing what Rob did once his car stalled. He very well could have been yelling and screaming for help, or perhaps he ran back to the telephone booth to call 911. How would anyone know the specifics based off of a UM re-enactment?

It would be nice to have police reports or something similar to see the bare bones of the investigation without all of the telling and re-telling of the story...We can't be sure what is true or not...It would sure help...It would be great to even have media reports from the next day or so, but I can't find them...

It would be nice to have police reports or something similar to see the bare bones of the investigation without all of the telling and re-telling of the story...We can't be sure what is true or not...It would sure help...It would be great to even have media reports from the next day or so, but I can't find them...


Exactly. So Rob very well could have been running around the town screaming for help or for someone to call the police.

Exactly. So Rob very well could have been running around the town screaming for help or for someone to call the police.

Or...He may not have been...

Or...He may not have been...

If he did it, how did he do it?
How was a 19 or 20 year old kid able to meet up with and murder his girlfriend, make her body disappear so successfully that it hasn't been found in 20 years, and show up at the police station in just around an hour's time, along with trashing his transmission?

I will offer up have a theory or two, though, to appease the "Rob Did It" Crowd.
Perhaps one of these several scenarios are what happened:

-Angela calls Rob and tells him they need to talk. Rob meets with Angela around 11pm, at the parking lot where her car is found, where the payphone is. It's late, no one is around. A fight ensues over God knows what. Maybe their future, maybe the unborn baby and it's effects on their lives, anything really (since we don't know the dynamics of their relationship). Maybe Rob wants Angie to get an abortion; she resists the idea; a violent fight ensues. He kills her, not in a premeditated act, but in an unthinking moment of anger--Like so many other senseless murders. Either way, he accidentally kills her. In a moment of quick thinking, he calls up one of his friends--Using the payphone Angela is said to have used, perhaps--And said friend either takes the body for him, for later disposal, while Rob goes to the police station, or Rob and friend deposit the body somewhere temporarily. Maybe in the hurry to meet his friend or to get to the police station, he damages his transmission. Maybe in the space of the hour--Let's say Angela is killed not long after they meet up--Him and his friend concoct the "Bearded Psychopath" story.

-Rob plans her murder sometime before April 4th. Motives include wanting to be "free"--Having a baby at his young age could impede his promising future. Maybe he simply doesn't want to be tied down at 19 or 20 with a child. Perhaps he (or a family member of his) pay someone to abduct/murder her. A druggie, or someone in a gang--someone sleazy along those lines. The abduction plays out as Rob claims it did, and he has an alibi since he isn't the one to actually KILL her--Only ensured that it happened. No possible connections made given the lack of witnesses, with Rob's story being the only one. The coincidence of there being a seeming serial killer on the loose--the other 2 local victims prior to Angela--helps Rob appear innocent and Angela the victim of a roaming serial killer. Coincidence helps him remain free. Since he's not the one to kill her, no DNA evidence can tie him to the crime. The killer is a professional of sorts. Not a Mafioso but some sort of sleazo who's done this sort of thing before. Or perhaps she's not killed at all that night and is abducted into sex slavery by said hired sleazo, killed at a later date.

-Rob abducts Angela with help from a friend. How much the friend helps is up for debate. Rob stages the abduction scene--the abandoned car at the parking lot, etc. He then deposits Angela somewhere the police wouldn't think to look and she is killed at a later time--Possibly a day or so later. The body is either dumped either in one of the surrounding rivers, or perhaps a few days to weeks later in the Ozarks, or perhaps even in another state, or is perhaps buried right on a family plot of land. The tiny Clinton Police Department's search isn't extensive enough; Her body remains unfound.

Other alternatives include:
An embittered, jealous ex-boyfriend of Angela's plans her abduction in someway.
Perhaps Angela was seeing someone on the side, a bad someone, and he abducts her. Maybe she'd been flirting with the idea of leaving Rob for his person.
Maybe Angela and Rob were involved in a bad crowd and/or drugs. Someone from this crowd abducts Angela for whatever reason. Rob concorts the story to save his friends and/or his own reputation.
Someone in Rob's family plans the abduction (to remove the family shame of an unwed teenage pregnancy)
A stalker Angela doesn't know (but not a serial killer) murders her, a drug addled nutcase does indeed abduct her.
Perhaps the guy who abducts her is a drifter, on drugs or something, or just a plain nutcase. Again, not a serial killer. Perhaps he's a rapist who becomes a murderer that night.

Either way, these are some other possibilities:
-Angela's abductor is someone either in or out of the prison system but who hasn't been tied in any way to her murder through either savvyness or sheer luck on his part.
-Back in 2009 police announced they had found DNA on the payphone Angela used if I'm not mistaken, or DNA that they thought could help the case. Perhaps it was indeed the DNA of her abductor, but his DNA isn't in the prison system and as such, it has yet to be tied to anyone.
-Angela's abductor had connections to the local PD, which would explain the PD's failure to catch him after 20 years. Perhaps some things have been covered up.
-Angela's abductor died or committed suicide not long after abducting her, within say 5 years and thus, his DNA is nor ever will be part of the system. However, perhaps he abducted/raped/murdered other women before or after Angela, is reponsible for other unsolved murders/disappearances, and perhaps one of these other crimes will lead to his arrest for Angela's murder.
-The most frightening possibility: Her abductor is still out there and has either moved on to another state, or even possibly a country. Maybe there are many more victims under his belt.
-Marvin Chaney and Jesse Rush were responsible. For those who do not know, Marvin Chaney and Jesse Rush are brothers who were caught and convicted for the rape and murder of Trudy Darby. Darby was abducted in Mack's Creek, Missouri (not far from Clinton, MO) in January 1991. Her abduction was very similar to Angela's in it's MO. Both women were alone at night in a public location when they suddenly disappeared. Darby worked in a convenience store when she noticed a creepy man lingering for a long time outside. She was abducted not long after she called her son to come to the store as she was uncomfortable. By the time her son got there, she was gone. Darby was later raped and murdered by Chaney and Rush, with possible help by men with the surnames of Marshall, Cheevers and Parrel. Rush, while in jail awaiting trial, claimed in letters to a fellow prisoner that he and his brother had murdered at least 2 other women but that an associate of theirs had destroyed the location of the murders--A barn. Rush claimed that if not for the burning of the barn, he'd be on death row.
Marvin Chaney by his physical appearance and age fits the description given by Angela: A bearded, filthy looking man. He was in his late 20s in 1991.
-Larry Hall, a convicted serial killer operating in the Midwest throughout the 1980s until his capture in 1994, was responsible. Hall's MO was also similar to the abduction of Angela's. His physical description, too, again, matches the description Angela gave. He is suspected in many unsolved murders throughout the Midwest, including Missouri, ranging from the early 80s up to 1994. He is a schizoid personality who could act normal one moment, and become a vicious murderer the next. He often fell into something of a fugue state during his murders. His method of murder varied slightly from victim to victim. He often but not always kept "trophies" from his victims. He discarded other trophies. He drove a van, amongst other vehicles. It is unknown whether he owned a truck. Hall participated in reenactments of the Revolutionary and Civil War and many of his murders took place days to weeks before or after in towns where such reenactments occurred.

For those that feel Rob is guilty, you must also believe that he had planned this murder. There's just no way he could have been able to pull everything off (the murder itself, the disposing of the body so well that it stil hasn't been found, the damage to his car, and concocting the story of the chase) if it was a spur of the moment decision. So let's say Rob planned to murder Angela the night she disappeared. How did he know this bearded man in a truck would have been in the area around the same time he planned to murder Angela? We know this bearded man exsists, because other witnesses place him and his truck within the vicinity and timeframe of when and where Angela was last seen. My point is Rob had no idea this man was going to be in the area, let alone in the same parking lot as Angela. After he killed her and disposed of her body, how could he have been that cunning (when his transmission cut out) to invent the whole chase scene and also pin the abduction on this innocent man in a truck? For those that believe Rob is guilty, they must also believe that Rob is a criminal mastermind, who at the age of 18, was able to (in less than an hour) invent a story that got him cleared and also hid Angela's body so well that it still hasn't been found.

Rob's alibi is another thing that would be easy to destroy if he were the responsible party. He claims Angela dropped him off at 10:00 that night, and that his mother left shortly afterwards and that Rob was to watch his little brother until she returned. Rob's brother could have been questioned to see if his brother ever left the house prior to 11:30, when Angela was alleged to have screamed from the payphone. Perhaps LE did just that, and also checked the phone records which is what helped cleared Shafer. Again, LE would never have cleared Rob if there was the even the slightest piece of evidence tying him to this crime. If one shred of his story did not check out, he still would have been a POI in this case. But according to UM, LE cleared him after one week of Angela's disappearance. I'm sure he was put under much scrutiny in the community and everyone naturally assumed he did it. But LE found nothing connecting him to the crime, and his story also checked out which is why he was ultimately cleared. I'm amazed at how some people cannot grasp this concept.

EDIT - Another thing I've noticed is how people say it's "easy" to mess up your transmission, and that's true. But isn't it just as likely that in a panicked state of mind, after just hearing your girlfriend (who was just abducted) scream out to Rob for help, would have slammed his car into reverse which would have resulted in a messed up transmission?

I mean, there were several witnesses that saw the stranger (assumed abductor), right?
Also, for the people questioning the payphone: EVERYONE used payphones back in the day. Geez. Even in the late nineties, early 00's my friends still called me from payphones and *gasp* sometimes after 10 pm too!! I remember having to walk and use a payphone at almost one in the morning before. I do not see why this is such an issue. Even if she were 7 blocks away, people have called me on the regular phone and a payphone from a block or two over.

I mean, there were several witnesses that saw the stranger (assumed abductor), right?
Also, for the people questioning the payphone: EVERYONE used payphones back in the day. Geez. Even in the late nineties, early 00's my friends still called me from payphones and *gasp* sometimes after 10 pm too!! I remember having to walk and use a payphone at almost one in the morning before. I do not see why this is such an issue. Even if she were 7 blocks away, people have called me on the regular phone and a payphone from a block or two over.

Angela was using the payphone because her family did not own a home phone. And she was calling Rob to let him know that she was too tired to hang out that night, and I'm assuming to tell him about the party she just left. As for the witnesses who saw the abductor, the Charley Project and other websites are vague about the number of witnesses, but they do confirm that other people saw this truck with the man driving around the phone booth shortly before Angela was abducted.

The question is...Who is this man. There has to be SOME way to find him. He surely had a family--at least even cousins, etc. If not perhaps a wife/girlfriend or child. The man could've been a fisher man. The point is, the Clinton PD dropped the ball back in 1991 but we need to pick it back up. I know we're covering a very cold trail but...Even the shadiest, most "under the radar" people can be found if looked closely into. I have no connection to Angela by blood or friendship; I was an infant when she was abducted. But her case is what first drew me to UM and also to the idea of a career in law enforcement, and as such, hers is one I personally want to see solved.

Curious we are totally on the same page! What if we put together something that we can post on "craigslist" in all the cities in say, a 350 mile radius of the crime? Maybe with his sketch, description of truck, her picture, etc.? I am totally down for the cause if you want to put something together.

Curious we are totally on the same page! What if we put together something that we can post on "craigslist" in all the cities in say, a 350 mile radius of the crime? Maybe with his sketch, description of truck, her picture, etc.? I am totally down for the cause if you want to put something together.

The only thing is there is no sketch of him. I mean all we got was a "bearded, mustachioed man with overalls". We didn't get any details as to his approximate age, facial features, skin tone, his hair color, any distinguishing facial marks. We don't even know if he wore a full beard, or a goatee. All we know is he was "filthy man wearing a beard, mustache and overalls." Some stories have him wearing eyeglasses, others don't. Some versions of the story have him wearing a ball cap; others don't.

I do want to pursue this aggressively but...Without even a clear description it's hard. I mean, did he wear eyeglasses or not, for example? Was he bearded or goateed? Was he an older guy or younger? All these little details could help form a more concrete picture of the guy.

I think the truck with the decal is the only hope that the abductor will ever be identified. I bet he changed it/got a new car soon after the crime. But if someone, anyone can remember this decal as belonging to an individual they know or were neighbors with, coworkers, etc. it could be the big break.

I think the truck with the decal is the only hope that the abductor will ever be identified. I bet he changed it/got a new car soon after the crime. But if someone, anyone can remember this decal as belonging to an individual they know or were neighbors with, coworkers, etc. it could be the big break.

Yes. Someone had to know this guy. As you said--could've been family, co-workers, neighbors, etc. But I'm sure someone remembers a bearded or mustachioed fellow with a 60s/70s era green pick up with a decal.

My guess is after that close call (Rob following him) not only did he ditch the car or had it repainted and the decal removed at the very least, but he also probably changed his appearance. For example, if he was a smart criminal, he might've shaved his beard, changed his pair of glasses, and if he had long hair, gotten a short short hair cut and voila--He looked like a totally different person, someone who didn't fit the description by the time the investigation was underway.

It really all depends on what manner of man we're dealing with here: A man of some intelligence, or of simply average or underaverage intelligence as is the case with many serial killers? A sociopath, or a schizoid personality? An organized serial killer, or a disorganized one?

Yes. Someone had to know this guy. As you said--could've been family, co-workers, neighbors, etc. But I'm sure someone remembers a bearded or mustachioed fellow with a 60s/70s era green pick up with a decal.

My guess is after that close call (Rob following him) not only did he ditch the car or had it repainted and the decal removed at the very least, but he also probably changed his appearance. For example, if he was a smart criminal, he might've shaved his beard, changed his pair of glasses, and if he had long hair, gotten a short short hair cut and voila--He looked like a totally different person, someone who didn't fit the description by the time the investigation was underway.

It really all depends on what manner of man we're dealing with here: A man of some intelligence, or of simply average or underaverage intelligence as is the case with many serial killers? A sociopath, or a schizoid personality? An organized serial killer, or a disorganized one?
If they where going to catch this guy based on the description of the truck and the man then it would have happened back then. Anyone who lives in the area knows that there was no shortage of media coverage on this case. The description of that truck was all over the news both on television and the print media, posters where up everywhere. The killer was either picked up for another crime or died. Anyone wonder what happened to the new evidence the Clinton police found over two years ago?

If they where going to catch this guy based on the description of the truck and the man then it would have happened back then. Anyone who lives in the area knows that there was no shortage of media coverage on this case. The description of that truck was all over the news both on television and the print media, posters where up everywhere. The killer was either picked up for another crime or died. Anyone wonder what happened to the new evidence the Clinton police found over two years ago?

I emailed the station that ran the piece on the new evidence from 2009 and they said they had no further information...It would be nice to know SOMETHING about it...

Reports from the time say the cops did a search on approximately 1600 registered vehicles which were the same make and model as the truck in this case...It's possible that they found their man among these 1600 owners but overlooked him accidentally for one or more reasons:
1) Could've changed his appearance by the time investigators looked into him
2) The pick up could've been owned by a FAMILY MEMBER or FRIEND of the abductor, not necessarily owned by him himself.
3) He could've sold it very shortly after the abduction and it was in new hands by the time the investigators checked.

Either way, that list of 1600 vehicles from 1991 should be revisited. I am almost positive something could be gleaned from it with a comprehensive follow up of the owners of those trucks back in 1991.

Either way, that list of 1600 vehicles from 1991 should be revisited. I am almost positive something could be gleaned from it with a comprehensive follow up of the owners of those trucks back in 1991.

Sadly, I think investigating the vehicle nowadays will lead to nothing but dead ends. I don't think this case will be solved unless there is DNA evidence found, or a confession.

Sadly, I think investigating the vehicle nowadays will lead to nothing but dead ends. I don't think this case will be solved unless there is DNA evidence found, or a confession.
I agree. There have been many cases solved years later by DNA or simply by chance someone comes forward and remembers something that leads to the killer. In this case the Clinton police simply dropped the ball.

Reports from the time say the cops did a search on approximately 1600 registered vehicles which were the same make and model as the truck in this case...It's possible that they found their man among these 1600 owners but overlooked him accidentally for one or more reasons:
1) Could've changed his appearance by the time investigators looked into him
2) The pick up could've been owned by a FAMILY MEMBER or FRIEND of the abductor, not necessarily owned by him himself.
3) He could've sold it very shortly after the abduction and it was in new hands by the time the investigators checked.

Either way, that list of 1600 vehicles from 1991 should be revisited. I am almost positive something could be gleaned from it with a comprehensive follow up of the owners of those trucks back in 1991.
How much could they possibly investigated each person with a truck like this? They very well could have talked to the killer and if he denies being in the area that night then what else do they have? Are they gonna go and interview friends, family, coworkers and neighboors of all 1600 and see if anyone noticed them being gone that night? I highly doubt it. The guy also could have been from out of state which would explain why no one could identify

How much could they possibly investigated each person with a truck like this? They very well could have talked to the killer and if he denies being in the area that night then what else do they have? Are they gonna go and interview friends, family, coworkers and neighboors of all 1600 and see if anyone noticed them being gone that night? I highly doubt it. The guy also could have been from out of state which would explain why no one could identify

Process of elimination. Slow. Just dig into each person, wait a bit, go on to the next. Hell, ask them (or a family member without them knowing) if they have any old photographs of the suspected person from around 1991. Interview each one, one by one. Get a psychological profile of all of them. Find out about them, their interests, etc. Perhaps see if any of them has any charges now on their record (since 1991). It'd be a hard but not impossible process. Not necessarily if they remember him being gone that night...But could check to see if there's anything off about the guy, or talk to friends, family, etc, ask if they remember any odd comments or behavior around that time.

Could even do what they did to Larry Hall. Once they bring in a likely suspect, confront them with a photograph of Angela. If their psychological profile is anything like Hall's (and I have a feeling this guy's is), their reaction will be quite telling.

Like I said, it'd be a very long process...But worth it in the end.

Process of elimination. Slow. Just dig into each person, wait a bit, go on to the next. Hell, ask them (or a family member without them knowing) if they have any old photographs of the suspected person from around 1991. Interview each one, one by one. Get a psychological profile of all of them. Find out about them, their interests, etc. Perhaps see if any of them has any charges now on their record (since 1991). It'd be a hard but not impossible process. Not necessarily if they remember him being gone that night...But could check to see if there's anything off about the guy, or talk to friends, family, etc, ask if they remember any odd comments or behavior around that time.

Could even do what they did to Larry Hall. Once they bring in a likely suspect, confront them with a photograph of Angela. If their psychological profile is anything like Hall's (and I have a feeling this guy's is), their reaction will be quite telling.

Like I said, it'd be a very long process...But worth it in the end.

Unfortunately I think doing this could be a waste of time. Why? Angela and/or Rob may have got the make, model, and description of the truck wrong. It may be an entirely different truck, and a different color, which is probably why those initial leads panned out to nothing. And to look into the possibility that anyone remembers someone driving a truck with a fish mural in that area back in 1991 is impossible due to the passage of time. We can only hope this new "DNA evidence" will bring forth a suspect.

I'm positive that Angela Hammond wasn't Laci Peterson pregnant at the time she disappeared. Given that it wasn't even mentioned in the UM segment or on her Doe Network page, I would be willing to bet that she was in the early stages of pregnancy; no more than 12 weeks. While I understand why her activities of that night may be of interest, I don't really think they are significant unless she was later abducted by someone who had spotted her earlier that night. Quite a few people have mentioned that they feel the abductor staked out a location and this is the most plausible theory to me, in the sense that the abductor picked a remote location and just waited for someone to stumble into the trap.

Angela Hammond was 4'11," and 120 pounds. I know that petite women can be fiesty (I'm a petite woman) but I find it hard to believe that a girl Angela's size could fend off an attacker, especially if he had done something to the passenger side door which made it unable for her to open it. This is pure speculation, but who's to say that the abductor didn't disable the passenger door? At 4'11," and 120 pounds, it's pretty easy for someone to grab you and toss you into a pickup before you know what's happening. I've got a few inches on Angela and more self-defense training, yet when I place myself in the same situation, I realistically view my chances of escape as slim.

To me, this case is one filled with "if only's." If only Angela hadn't stopped to call Rob from the pay phone... if only Rob had come by a few minutes earlier... if only someone happened by the area at the time of the abduction... if only someone had seen the high speed chase... if only it hadn't been past 11pm on a Thursday night... In my opinion, there were just too many variables that even the most skilled of predators could not account for. Therefore, I still feel that the abductor was not skilled, but simply very lucky.
It dose say in her Doe Network profile that she was 4 months pregnant which show on someone my and her height.

I must've been around 11 or 12 when I watched the case on UM, and at the risk of repeating others, this disapperance has haunted me too ever since. For me, it was the close-call; inches away, and he still couldn't save his girlfriend. That filled me both with fear that something like this could happen, and sympathy for those to whom it did happen.

Even at 11, I never believed that Rob did it. If you observe his eyes in the UM segment, he's not looking at the interviewer when narrating the story; he's looking right into the indelible memory of that dreadful experience - something which the UM segment (perhaps unknowingly) highlights by intercutting his interview with the re-enactment. He is traumatized; he can't narrate the course of events without reliving them.

I know you can't base innocence on someone's actions or show of emotion, but as the police have cleared him of any involvement, Rob's actions and display of emotion are to me more a supplement to his innocence rather than the foundation of it.

I've read these posts for the past four days, and I just have two points to make:

1) The UM segment is probably better taken as the "spirit" of what happened and not the literal truth. For example, in the re-enactment, "Rob" slowly makes his way back to his broken-down car after watching the truck holding Angela drive into the distance. The real Rob was surely more panicked than that. But the scene may have been directed like this in order to capture the sense of loneliness and agony of defeat that I'm sure the real Rob still feels to this day.

I think about this whenever I see posts from people who are surprised that there weren't more witnesses at 11PM on this main street in the center of town. They are probably thinking of the well-lit street in the UM segment, with a whole block of shops (some with lights still on) right up to the edge of the street itself. The reality is far different, as Google Maps and other posts on here can show. I'm sure UM did this for practical purposes; the audience has to be able to actually see what's going on.

2) Much has been made about the fish decal on the guy's truck, and most people here have rightly said that the guy probably took it off afterwards - but has anyone here ever entertained the idea that the decal may have been a ruse all along? A decal is just as easily put on as it is taken off. Criminals, of course, don't want to have anything on them that stands out and may identify them later on. While this decal does stand out, notice how it guides your eye away from other things that could better identify the criminal like, for example, the color, make, and license plate number of the truck, etc.

I lean towards the opinion that, while this guy may not have been as organized as most serial killers, he did do some planning, probably staking out the area and waiting to see who would fall into his trap. To me it's not too much of a leap to suggest that he may have put up a temporary decal simply to throw off his trail any witnesses that may be in this slow, yet still very public, spot.

I've just read the entire thread.

It's not surprising, I suppose, that this case is so heavily discussed and argued-over around here (and elsewhere). It's extremely tragic and unusual among these sorts of abductions in that someone close to the victim (in this case, the fiancee) got close enough to the crime as it was in progress that they nearly prevented it, yet didn't prevail. Just the idea of being so close yet seeing this truck speed away, is so haunting and terrible. I imagine Rob still runs it through his mind quite often. I know I would.

Anyway, I emphatically don't think Rob is guilty in the least, and it's simply preposterous IMO to imply otherwise. Because if we assume that his "chase" story is a lie and he actually killed Angela, we have to assume he was at 18 years old an absolute professional at disposing of a body and making sure it's never found. etc. This has been discussed to death in this thread already.

One point of puzzlement.
Supposedly, the abductor said, "I didn't need to use the phone anyway" just after Angela screamed and before Rob fled to the scene. From what I've read, it's thought he didn't actually pick up the phone to say this, but was simply heard by Rob after Angela dropped the phone in fright. This is very odd. How did the man subdue Angela sufficiently so that he could say this (presumably, it's said, rather calmly), and she would have no chance of escape? It's not as if he drugged her with chloroform or something, since she was still conscious to scream Rob's name a few minutes later. Basically, I'm just confused as to how exactly the abductor subdued Angela. I would think there would be more of a struggle. I know we'll probably never know, but still.

How did the man subdue Angela sufficiently so that he could say this (presumably, it's said, rather calmly), and she would have no chance of escape? It's not as if he drugged her with chloroform or something, since she was still conscious to scream Rob's name a few minutes later. Basically, I'm just confused as to how exactly the abductor subdued Angela. I would think there would be more of a struggle.

For what it's worth, Angela was only 4' 11" or 5' tall. That's the average height of an 11 to 12 year old girl. She didn't weigh very much and was so tiny, I think it would be easy for one man to overpower her without much of a struggle.

You're right, it's not much of a mystery how he subdued her. I suppose I just find the timing of everything odd - the whole "I didn't need to use the phone" line doesn't seem like something this guy would say in the midst of abducting a girl. It's rather surreal, like out of a film or something.

I suspect, though, that the picture we're given from the UM segment is naturally only an approximation of the truth, and so the order and timing of events may well be quite different in reality.

You're right, it's not much of a mystery how he subdued her. I suppose I just find the timing of everything odd - the whole "I didn't need to use the phone" line doesn't seem like something this guy would say in the midst of abducting a girl. It's rather surreal, like out of a film or something.

I suspect, though, that the picture we're given from the UM segment is naturally only an approximation of the truth, and so the order and timing of events may well be quite different in reality.


Yep, that line the guy says about not even needing to use the phone seems so melodramatic considering the situation. I think if I were a criminal in the process of abducting someone, making cryptic comments would be the furthest thing from my mind.

Yep, that line the guy says about not even needing to use the phone seems so melodramatic considering the situation. I think if I were a criminal in the process of abducting someone, making cryptic comments would be the furthest thing from my mind.

I'm assuming that in the ensuing struggle between Angela and her abductor (as he was taking her into his truck), he yelled/grunted the line. I tend to think Robert Stack's delivery of the line made a lot of people think (including me at first) that the abductor uttered it calm, cool, and collected.

I'm assuming that in the ensuing struggle between Angela and her abductor (as he was taking her into his truck), he yelled/grunted the line. I tend to think Robert Stack's delivery of the line made a lot of people think (including me at first) that the abductor uttered it calm, cool, and collected.

Yep, there are lots of cases where I get the reenactment and the actual facts mixed up, then have to review the DVD to see what happened vs. the way I mistakenly remembered it.

Even when commenting on this topic, I had forgotten if that line was scripted or if the abductor actually stated it..... and this is one of my favorite UM segments, so I should have it memorized by now.

I just recently rewatched the Colleen Reed segment on the unnamed site and I notice that two men were apprehended for her murder: Kenneth McDuff as well know, and a bearded man who admitted to helping abduct her. The video was unclear but his last name was Wood. He was a creepy, bearded man with unkempt hair. I was just wondering if perhaps there is a connection there. Maybe it was the two of them who grabbed Angela but in her case they used a different pick up; Maybe the guy who helped McDuff abduct Reed had a taste for abduction himself and abducted Angela alone or with another creep.

The MO is quite similar, but then we also have the two serial killer brothers Rush and Chaney whose MOs were much the same as well.

McDuff's accomplice in the Colleen Reed murder was Alva Hank Worley. I don't know if he had any aliases.

McDuff can be placed in TX for at least a couple of the later months of 1991 (Angela was abducted in April 1991) and early 1992 because of four known murders.

He can be placed in Kansas City, MO (Angela was abducted from Clinton, MO) in early 1992, using an alias and working for a garbage company. He was arrested 5/4/92 while driving to a landfill! Perfect job for a prolific murderer such as McDuff, who successfully hid the bodies of his victims, some never being found.

Many have considered McDuff and/or his accomplices could be involved in Angela's case. He certainly traveled frequently through the areas of known murders/abductions that fit his pattern.

I'm just glad the SOB is dead. He was actually sentenced to death for a gruesome triple teen rape and murder, but was released due to prison over crowding. Ticked me off to no end. They let McDuff out to make room for some embezzler or dope dealer, I'm sure. He immediately went out and starting raping, torturing, and murdering again. Anyone one of us here could have predicted that outcome when a sadistic killer like McDuff is set free. Why couldn't TX figure it out? I thought they had a dang express lane to the death chamber.

At least they revamped their system after this, but look at the lives it cost and the ruined lives of the surviving loved ones. (McDuff is my biggest pet peeve case, by far! I'm sure you can tell, and I'm glad he's finally where he belongs.)

Last year, I bought the book "No Remorse" about McDuff, his accomplices, his crazy family, his crimes, etc. Very much worth a read if the subject interests you.

----
edited cuz I was posting while angry and, as usual, not making any sense :p

Basic McDuff timeline (according to wikipedia), I've got the book right here, but just don't have the time to verify wiki's account against the book yet. I'm pretty sure there are more victims than what are listed here. Some were runaways and/or prostitutes and/or drug users. IIRC, the book says not all suspected murder victims have been found.

WARNING *** GRAPHIC CONTENT ***

March 21, 1946 - McDuff's birth

Childhood - spent shooting at critters for entertainment, among other inappropriate pursuits

1964 - (18 years old) - convicted of 12 counts of burglary and attempted burglary in 3 TX counties. Sentenced to four 12 years prison terms to be served concurrently.

1965 - (19 years old) paroled and sent on his merry way just a few months into his 12 year sentences. Violated parole and was almost immediately released again. Claimed to have raped and killed two young women during this time. Nothing came of this confession.

August 6, 1966 (20 years old) - McDuff and accomplice Roy Dale Green bought beer in Ft. Worth. At 10:00pm, they came upon 3 teens parked at a baseball field: Robert Brand (18), his cousin Mark Dunman (16), and Brand's girlfriend Edna Louise Sullivan (16). At gunpoint, McDuff ordered all three teens into the trunk of their own car.

Both cars were driven to a secluded 2nd location. The girl was put into the trunk of McDuff's car. The teen boys were shot to death.

They left the dead boys and their car, then drove to a 3rd secluded location. Both men tortured and raped the teen girl. McDuff violently sexually impaled the girl with a 3 foot long broomstick, then strangled her to death with it.

The following day - Perps destroyed evidence, Green confessed to his mother and turned himself in to police.

McDuff received 3 death sentences (Green got 25 years). McDuff was sent to the electric chair twice but received last minute reprieves. His sentences were then commuted to life with option of parole after 10 years.

October 11, 1989 - 43 y/o McDuff is paroled due to prison overcrowding. 750 LOW RISK prisoners were to be released per week. McDuff was one of 20 death row inmates and 127 murderers to be paroled.

McDuff is employed as a gas station attendant and becomes a student at a Tech College in Waco.

October 14, 1989 - Three days after his release from prison, he murders 31 y/o Sarafia Parker in Temple, TX. Oblivious authorities send him back to prison on a parole violation for making death threats in an unrelated case.

December 18, 1990 - released from prison, again.

October 10, 1991 - Brenda Thompson, a Waco prostitute, was abducted and restrained in McDuff's vehicle. Police attempted to stop his car, the victim kicked at the windshield for help, McDuff escaped, tortured and murdered Brenda, whose body was not found for 7 years.

October 15, 1991 - McDuff abducted and murdered Reginia DeAnne Moore, a 17 year old Waco prostitute. Her body was found 2 years later.

December 29, 1991 - McDuff and Worley abduct 28 year old accountant, Colleen Reed from a public car wash. She was raped, tortured, and murdered.

February 24, 1992 - McDuff murdered prostitute and fellow Waco college student, Valencia Joshua.

March 1, 1992 - McDuff murdered 22 year old pregnant, Melissa Northrup, a Waco Quik Stop clerk.

McDuff moves to Kansas City, MO and begins working as a garbage collector using an alias.

May 4, 1992 - McDuff is arrested by a surveillance team of 6 police officers while enroute to a landfill south of Kansas City

November 17, 1998 - McDuff executed

Basic McDuff timeline (according to wikipedia), I've got the book right here, but just don't have the time to verify wiki's account against the book yet. I'm pretty sure there are more victims than what are listed here. Some were runaways and/or prostitutes and/or drug users. IIRC, the book says not all suspected murder victims have been found.

WARNING *** GRAPHIC CONTENT ***

March 21, 1946 - McDuff's birth

Childhood - spent shooting at critters for entertainment, among other inappropriate pursuits

1964 - (18 years old) - convicted of 12 counts of burglary and attempted burglary in 3 TX counties. Sentenced to four 12 years prison terms to be served concurrently.

1965 - (19 years old) paroled and sent on his merry way just a few months into his 12 year sentences. Violated parole and was almost immediately released again. Claimed to have raped and killed two young women during this time. Nothing came of this confession.

August 6, 1966 (20 years old) - McDuff and accomplice Roy Dale Green bought beer in Ft. Worth. At 10:00pm, they came upon 3 teens parked at a baseball field: Robert Brand (18), his cousin Mark Dunman (16), and Brand's girlfriend Edna Louise Sullivan (16). At gunpoint, McDuff ordered all three teens into the trunk of their own car.

Both cars were driven to a secluded 2nd location. The girl was put into the trunk of McDuff's car. The teen boys were shot to death.

They left the dead boys and their car, then drove to a 3rd secluded location. Both men tortured and raped the teen girl. McDuff violently sexually impaled the girl with a 3 foot long broomstick, then strangled her to death with it.

The following day - Perps destroyed evidence, Green confessed to his mother and turned himself in to police.

McDuff received 3 death sentences (Green got 25 years). McDuff was sent to the electric chair twice but received last minute reprieves. His sentences were then commuted to life with option of parole after 10 years.

October 11, 1989 - 43 y/o McDuff is paroled due to prison overcrowding. 750 LOW RISK prisoners were to be released per week. McDuff was one of 20 death row inmates and 127 murderers to be paroled.

McDuff is employed as a gas station attendant and becomes a student at a Tech College in Waco.

October 14, 1989 - Three days after his release from prison, he murders 31 y/o Sarafia Parker in Temple, TX. Oblivious authorities send him back to prison on a parole violation for making death threats in an unrelated case.

December 18, 1990 - released from prison, again.

October 10, 1991 - Brenda Thompson, a Waco prostitute, was abducted and restrained in McDuff's vehicle. Police attempted to stop his car, the victim kicked at the windshield for help, McDuff escaped, tortured and murdered Brenda, whose body was not found for 7 years.

October 15, 1991 - McDuff abducted and murdered Reginia DeAnne Moore, a 17 year old Waco prostitute. Her body was found 2 years later.

December 29, 1991 - McDuff and Worley abduct 28 year old accountant, Colleen Reed from a public car wash. She was raped, tortured, and murdered.

February 24, 1992 - McDuff murdered prostitute and fellow Waco college student, Valencia Joshua.

March 1, 1992 - McDuff murdered 22 year old pregnant, Melissa Northrup, a Waco Quik Stop clerk.

McDuff moves to Kansas City, MO and begins working as a garbage collector using an alias.

May 4, 1992 - McDuff is arrested by a surveillance team of 6 police officers while enroute to a landfill south of Kansas City

November 17, 1998 - McDuff executed

To me McDuff should have always been looked at as a suspect and here is why
The abduction fit his MO. We know he had no problem grabbing women from public places and murdering them, Then hiding the body

His vehicle would have been from out of state which would explain why the Hiway patrol was never able to match the trucks description to anyone local.

We know that he moved to KC in 1992 and could have very well been up here prior to that as its only an 8 hour drive from TX

To me McDuff should have always been looked at as a suspect and here is why
The abduction fit his MO. We know he had no problem grabbing women from public places and murdering them, Then hiding the body

His vehicle would have been from out of state which would explain why the Hiway patrol was never able to match the trucks description to anyone local.

We know that he moved to KC in 1992 and could have very well been up here prior to that as its only an 8 hour drive from TX

I don't think it was McDuff. At the time of Angela Hammond's dissapearance he was enrolled at Waco Technical Institute, and from everything I've heard he was selling drugs to students, praying on them and such. With all that going on, why would he drive six or seven hours to an obscure place like Clinton, Missouri for a victim?

Granted, the murder does in some ways fit his MO, and I think he was capable of pulling it off, but I don't think he did because he didn't move to Missouri until early 1992. I don't think he can be completely ruled out but I don't think he did it.

I've said several times I think Larry Hall is a stronger suspect. Larry Hall was almost always in transit visiting Civil War battle reinactments, his known victims are very similar to Angela Hammond, he was most certainly active in 1991 and was not caught until 1994, and he definitely killed throughout several midwest states including Missouri. I'm pretty sure there was a murder he commited in Indiana about two months before Angela Hammond was abducted.

McDuff I think was relatively grounded in Waco in early 1991, I don't think he started moving around for victims until later that year.

Everything I've read online says McDuff enrolled in the Waco college in "early 1991". (I assume they mean at the start of the semester. Would he have been able to enroll later in the semester than January, or whenever it began?)

Angela was abducted hundreds of miles away from the Waco area, in Clinton, MO, April 4, 1991.

I doubt McDuff is responsible, but he was quite the traveler, even way back in his burglary days of the 60s.

He killed a woman in Temple, TX in 1989, then between 12/1990 (released from prison) and when he was known to have killed a Waco woman in 10/1991, it's not unreasonable to think he could have been traveling around killing.

It could have all just been in TX, but he sure went a long time without a killing anyone between 1990 and 1991, then to have a known killing streak of 3 murders in the last three months of 1991, for him to have gone so long without committing any other murders.

I think there are more 1991 victims, but there may be only one on the 1991 TX doenetwork that fits his M.O. including circumstances where there's not a good suspect, such as a spouse or boyfriend. I think there are only two doenetwork 1991 MO missing women cases, besides Hammond, that could fit his M.O. There are no 1992 doenetwork cases that could be attributed to him, since those women went missing after he was arrested that spring.

I also don't think it's unreasonable to think that he'd be traveling between TX and MO to solidify some connections to the area for when he finally moved there in 1992, getting the garbage hauler job.

Everything I've read online says McDuff enrolled in the Waco college in "early 1991". (I assume they mean at the start of the semester. Would he have been able to enroll later in the semester than January, or whenever it began?)

Angela was abducted hundreds of miles away from the Waco area, in Clinton, MO, April 4, 1991.

I doubt McDuff is responsible, but he was quite the traveler, even way back in his burglary days of the 60s.

He killed a woman in Temple, TX in 1989, then between 12/1990 (released from prison) and when he was known to have killed a Waco woman in 10/1991, it's not unreasonable to think he could have been traveling around killing.

It could have all just been in TX, but he sure went a long time without a killing anyone between 1990 and 1991, then to have a known killing streak of 3 murders in the last three months of 1991, for him to have gone so long without committing any other murders.

I think there are more 1991 victims, but there may be only one on the 1991 TX doenetwork that fits his M.O. including circumstances where there's not a good suspect, such as a spouse or boyfriend. I think there are only two doenetwork 1991 MO missing women cases, besides Hammond, that could fit his M.O. There are no 1992 doenetwork cases that could be attributed to him, since those women went missing after he was arrested that spring.

I also don't think it's unreasonable to think that he'd be traveling between TX and MO to solidify some connections to the area for when he finally moved there in 1992, getting the garbage hauler job.

Your last sentence is kind of what I was trying to hit on in my post. We know he moves to KC in 1992 but did he just move here with no connection to the area whatsoever? Did he just drive up here on a whim and get set up with a job and a place to stay out of no where?? Chances are he had been making trips to this area and had made a few connections. He very easily could have travelled up this way and found himself someone to adbuct in a small town like clinton. I also think larry Hall is a good suspect also

Your last sentence is kind of what I was trying to hit on in my post. We know he moves to KC in 1992 but did he just move here with no connection to the area whatsoever? Did he just drive up here on a whim and get set up with a job and a place to stay out of no where?? Chances are he had been making trips to this area and had made a few connections. He very easily could have travelled up this way and found himself someone to adbuct in a small town like clinton. I also think larry Hall is a good suspect also

Yep, it's McDuff's penchant for traveling (and successfully hiding bodies) that makes me think there should be an attempt to at least eliminate him in Angela's case.

This guy thought nothing of traveling nearly 100 miles in a day committing crimes. He's known to travel out of state, so there could be potential victims outside of TX. He also like to grab victims from public places. IIRC, it was only when he got heavily into drugs that he started getting lazy and killing acquaintances (the prostitutes, one that I think was an on/off girlfriend of his).

Clinton, MO is about 77 miles outside the center of Kansas City (where McDuff was finally caught) and even closer to the south side of the city, where he was arrested. Depending on which route McDuff took from Waco to KC, Clinton is right there.

I should read the book again. It might say exactly when/how McDuff made his connection to KC, where he stayed, etc.

My only question is which Clinton, MO Angela was from. There is one on the west side of the state in Henry County, near KC and one is closer to the east side of the state in Phelps County. I am almost 100% positive that Angela's town was the one on the west side, putting her town in McDuff's path.

Yep, it's McDuff's penchant for traveling (and successfully hiding bodies) that makes me think there should be an attempt to at least eliminate him in Angela's case.

This guy thought nothing of traveling nearly 100 miles in a day committing crimes. He's known to travel out of state, so there could be potential victims outside of TX. He also like to grab victims from public places. IIRC, it was only when he got heavily into drugs that he started getting lazy and killing acquaintances (the prostitutes, one that I think was an on/off girlfriend of his).

Clinton, MO is about 77 miles outside the center of Kansas City (where McDuff was finally caught) and even closer to the south side of the city, where he was arrested. Depending on which route McDuff took from Waco to KC, Clinton is right there.

I should read the book again. It might say exactly when/how McDuff made his connection to KC, where he stayed, etc.

My only question is which Clinton, MO Angela was from. There is one on the west side of the state in Henry County, near KC and one is closer to the east side of the state in Phelps County. I am almost 100% positive that Angela's town was the one on the west side, putting her town in McDuff's path.
Angela was from Clinton in Henry county not far from KC. Im 100% on that

I've been re-reading "No Remorse" the McDuff book by Bob Stewart. I thought I'd quote some of it regarding the time frame surrounding Angela Hammond's abduction.

I'm on page 119 of 306, and there's a lot more info on McDuff's crimes than just the bit I posted from what I found online. He had access to many different vehicles, went to community colleges in different decades, and traveled even more extensively to commit crimes than I had remembered.

By the end of the 80s, he was considered to be a suffering, wrongfully convicted, innocent man, finally freed, and was meeting with producers for a movie deal. His parents were such enablers that when he was paroled in 1989, they welcomed him home with a big party and a brand new Ford Mustang. He also qualified for and received food stamps. Wonder if he drove to the family aid office in his fancy new sports car....

Quoting the parts that relate to the specific time frame and edited for space. McDuff had committed a somewhat minor known crime and was sent back to jail after his 1989 release, then:

(Page 99)

McDuff was paroled to his parents home on December 18, 1990.

[He] worked briefly in the Dallas area as a forklift operator before he moved back to Temple to live with his parents. He continued to receive food stamps.

McDuff's movie deal moved a step closer to reality in January 1991. Gloria Jackson, Gary's wife and law partner, wrote Kenneth that a movie deal was nearing with United Screenwriters Production Partners in Dallas. She asked Kenneth to make himself available for a stockholder meeting of Justice for McDuff, Inc., between February 4 and 18.

In a separate letter, Jackson wrote out the details of the proposed venture with United Screenwriters, then she went on to warn McDuff about moving his residence without permission from the parole board. As if writing a recent high school graduate [he was 43], Gloria outlined plans for McDuff to live at home with his parents while commuting to school.

(page 100)

By March McDuff was enrolled in Texas State Technical College in Waco. He decided to live in the dormitory -- a man in his forties living the life of a young college student. He applied for, and received, an $800 student loan.

[Angela was abducted April 4, 1991, in Clinton, MO, almost 600 miles from Waco, TX.]

In May McDuff took a job at Quik Pak #8, a convenience store on New Road near the college and I35. [He lied on the application, stating he'd never been convicted of a felony and had 44 college credits. I35 can be taken straight from Waco, through Oklahoma City, Wichita, and then right into Kansas City, MO where he was finally arrested one year later in 1992.]

He worked the graveyard shift beginning May 9, but in less than a month the responsibility was more than he could bear. [He abandoned his job.] He was terminated on June 2, 1991, for failure to return to work when scheduled.

The next month petite 21 year old Melissa Ann Northrup would sign up with Quik Pak #8. Her first day was July 22, 1991. She had been introduced to McDuff by her husband, Aaron, who had trained him for the Quik Pak job. The couple had two children. [IIRC, she was pregnant with her 3rd child when McDuff killed her.]

Angela was from Clinton in Henry county not far from KC. Im 100% on that

You are correct.

I've been re-reading "No Remorse" the McDuff book by Bob Stewart. I thought I'd quote some of it regarding the time frame surrounding Angela Hammond's abduction.

I'm on page 119 of 306, and there's a lot more info on McDuff's crimes than just the bit I posted from what I found online. He had access to many different vehicles, went to community colleges in different decades, and traveled even more extensively to commit crimes than I had remembered.

By the end of the 80s, he was considered to be a suffering, wrongfully convicted, innocent man, finally freed, and was meeting with producers for a movie deal. His parents were such enablers that when he was paroled in 1989, they welcomed him home with a big party and a brand new Ford Mustang. He also qualified for and received food stamps. Wonder if he drove to the family aid office in his fancy new sports car....

Quoting the parts that relate to the specific time frame and edited for space. McDuff had committed a somewhat minor known crime and was sent back to jail after his 1989 release, then:

(Page 99)

McDuff was paroled to his parents home on December 18, 1990.

[He] worked briefly in the Dallas area as a forklift operator before he moved back to Temple to live with his parents. He continued to receive food stamps.

McDuff's movie deal moved a step closer to reality in January 1991. Gloria Jackson, Gary's wife and law partner, wrote Kenneth that a movie deal was nearing with United Screenwriters Production Partners in Dallas. She asked Kenneth to make himself available for a stockholder meeting of Justice for McDuff, Inc., between February 4 and 18.

In a separate letter, Jackson wrote out the details of the proposed venture with United Screenwriters, then she went on to warn McDuff about moving his residence without permission from the parole board. As if writing a recent high school graduate [he was 43], Gloria outlined plans for McDuff to live at home with his parents while commuting to school.

(page 100)

By March McDuff was enrolled in Texas State Technical College in Waco. He decided to live in the dormitory -- a man in his forties living the life of a young college student. He applied for, and received, an $800 student loan.

[Angela was abducted April 4, 1991, in Clinton, MO, almost 600 miles from Waco, TX.]

In May McDuff took a job at Quik Pak #8, a convenience store on New Road near the college and I35. [He lied on the application, stating he'd never been convicted of a felony and had 44 college credits. I35 can be taken straight from Waco, through Oklahoma City, Wichita, and then right into Kansas City, MO where he was finally arrested one year later in 1992.]

He worked the graveyard shift beginning May 9, but in less than a month the responsibility was more than he could bear. [He abandoned his job.] He was terminated on June 2, 1991, for failure to return to work when scheduled.

The next month petite 21 year old Melissa Ann Northrup would sign up with Quik Pak #8. Her first day was July 22, 1991. She had been introduced to McDuff by her husband, Aaron, who had trained him for the Quik Pak job. The couple had two children. [IIRC, she was pregnant with her 3rd child when McDuff killed her.]
Wow after reading about this guy Im amazed. He really seemd to have nine lives. No doubt he should have been looked at in the abduction of Angela

Wow after reading about this guy Im amazed. He really seemd to have nine lives. No doubt he should have been looked at in the abduction of Angela

He even had more than nine lives! I'm about halfway through the book (2nd reading, I'm surprised I didn't quote more of it last year when I read it the first time) and he got out of a ton of stuff. Tons!

So many things could have sent him back to prison and he kept getting out of each one of them. For example, when he abducted Brenda, the girl who was restrained in his truck and trying to kick out the windshield during a routine check point where McDuff tried to run over the cops..... several officers opted not to fill out paperwork about the incident as they didn't feel their lives were endangered.

The paperwork that was filled out was shuffled along, misplaced, missing, etc. I haven't finished that part of the book yet, but no one was even looking for Brenda! It was Regenia's mother (and a friend) who accidentally got Brenda's missing status investigated because she was looking for her own missing daughter, who was friends with Brenda!

IIRC, at the check point, only one cop got a look at McDuff. Everyone who witnessed it knew the female passenger's hands were restrained, likely behind her back, because they never saw her hands and she was frantically using her feet to escape and draw attention to her situation. They didn't really give much of a chase for McDuff after he blew through the check point, and he and his victim just "disappeared".

More info from the McDuff book:

He and an accomplice were driving around with McDuff looking for a victim but the accomplice had no such intentions (yeah, right.....). They saw two teen girls USING A PAY PHONE (!!!!!) and discussed abducting them. McDuff even parked and watched them for a while. According to the accomplice (who keeps trying to portray himself as some kind of saint), he talked McDuff out of kidnapping them.

What a heck of a coincidence, imo, that McDuff scoped out pay phones and watched potential victims there, when it's known that Angela was abducted from a pay phone, and was watched by the perp before he took her.

Side note... Melissa Northrup was on the phone in the Quik Pak store, talking to her husband, when she was abducted. Her husband didn't hear the abduction, just that they were on the phone together for the 2nd time that night when a customer came in and the call ended. He couldn't get ahold of her again after that.

McDuff definitely had a "type". His preferred victims were very petite, right around 5' tall, and Angela definitely fits that. He seems to have targeted brown eyed brunette young women, but he was also opportunistic and almost abducted two little black girls who were about age 11. (Again, talked out of it by the saintly accomplice mentioned above.) He killed at least one petite black female acquaintance and even though he was 6'3" and 245 lbs, McDuff was afraid of a black female drug supplier of his, who was described as large.

I've been kind of obsessed with the I35 highway and if it could connect McDuff to Angela. The police said that he traveled I35 frequently enough that any unsolved abduction/murder along that route should be investigated for a McDuff connection. Also, I35 is the road that he and Worley drove along while holding Colleen Reed captive in the car.

I can't count all the cars McDuff was known to have access to during the time that Angela was abducted. So far, I haven't found a truck that fits the description of the one in her case. He did own a pick up at the time, but it was maroon. I thought maybe he could have painted it at some point to disguise it, but apparently it was the same color before, during, and after time Angela was taken. He did have it hidden in a barn during some of that time, and had repairs done to it, because it was the truck he used in Brenda's murder.

Didn't Angela say that her abductor was filthy and bearded? I can't find any info about McDuff ever having a beard. All the photos of him in the book show him clean shaven, and I can't find one showing what he looked like in early April 1991.

I looked around online a bit. Angela said the guy watching her was bearded, scruffy, wearing overalls, and glasses.

McDuff wore reading glasses. I don't know if he wore regular glasses or needed glasses for driving.

The book keep saying that McDuff sort of dressed like a "cowboy" and was a bit picky about his appearance. He wore western shirts, jeans, and boots. I haven't seen anything about overalls.

I wondered if Worley could have been the bearded guy Angela described. He certainly looks like a scruffy filthy mess in the photo of him in the book. I did find a thread here titled "who thinks kenneth mcduff murdered angela hammond" where LI UM Fan posted a picture of Worley that looks exactly like what you'd picture Angela was describing, beard and all. I just don't know when that photo was taken and I'm not sure what Worley looked like at the time of Angela's abduction.

More info from the McDuff book:

He and an accomplice were driving around with McDuff looking for a victim but the accomplice had no such intentions (yeah, right.....). They saw two teen girls USING A PAY PHONE (!!!!!) and discussed abducting them. McDuff even parked and watched them for a while. According to the accomplice (who keeps trying to portray himself as some kind of saint), he talked McDuff out of kidnapping them.

What a heck of a coincidence, imo, that McDuff scoped out pay phones and watched potential victims there, when it's known that Angela was abducted from a pay phone, and was watched by the perp before he took her.

Side note... Melissa Northrup was on the phone in the Quik Pak store, talking to her husband, when she was abducted. Her husband didn't hear the abduction, just that they were on the phone together for the 2nd time that night when a customer came in and the call ended. He couldn't get ahold of her again after that.

McDuff definitely had a "type". His preferred victims were very petite, right around 5' tall, and Angela definitely fits that. He seems to have targeted brown eyed brunette young women, but he was also opportunistic and almost abducted two little black girls who were about age 11. (Again, talked out of it by the saintly accomplice mentioned above.) He killed at least one petite black female acquaintance and even though he was 6'3" and 245 lbs, McDuff was afraid of a black female drug supplier of his, who was described as large.

I've been kind of obsessed with the I35 highway and if it could connect McDuff to Angela. The police said that he traveled I35 frequently enough that any unsolved abduction/murder along that route should be investigated for a McDuff connection. Also, I35 is the road that he and Worley drove along while holding Colleen Reed captive in the car.

I can't count all the cars McDuff was known to have access to during the time that Angela was abducted. So far, I haven't found a truck that fits the description of the one in her case. He did own a pick up at the time, but it was maroon. I thought maybe he could have painted it at some point to disguise it, but apparently it was the same color before, during, and after time Angela was taken. He did have it hidden in a barn during some of that time, and had repairs done to it, because it was the truck he used in Brenda's murder.

Didn't Angela say that her abductor was filthy and bearded? I can't find any info about McDuff ever having a beard. All the photos of him in the book show him clean shaven, and I can't find one showing what he looked like in early April 1991.
Wow the line about Mcduff scooping out payphones sure sounds erie. He had the truck too even though it was wrong color. He could have painted it like you said or used an accomplices truck. I do remember seeing the pics of Woorley and thinking it did resemble the man that Angela described. I just wonder if LE has ever looked into these guys as suspects

I may be mistaken but it was my impression that McDuff was ruled out because he was not in the area at the time? Am I mistaken?

I don't think McDuff was ever officially ruled out, but there is some question as to his whereabouts around the time Angela was abducted.

It amazes me that one can believe in the guilt of a guy that there is no evidence was even in the area, but when the boyfriend's story is called into question, their mind is not even open to the suggestion...

It amazes me that one can believe in the guilt of a guy that there is no evidence was even in the area, but when the boyfriend's story is called into question, their mind is not even open to the suggestion...

I'm up for any possibility in this case. However, when someone calls "BS" on Rob's story over and over again without offering any valid evidence that would directly implicate him in having ANYTHING to do with Angela's disappearance, then I guess you could say I'm not open to the suggestion.

No evidence for McDuff, yet most of this thread thinks he did it...At least the boyfriend had motive means and opportunity...

I can tell you from experience....I used to own a car like that when I was younger. You throw it into reverse like that it isnt gonna make it down the road....surprised he got to follow him as far as he did. I believe his story 100% and if he did have something to do it then he deserves an award for the performance he put on cause Im hooked - bait line and sinker

I can tell you from experience....I used to own a car like that when I was younger. You throw it into reverse like that it isnt gonna make it down the road....surprised he got to follow him as far as he did. I believe his story 100% and if he did have something to do it then he deserves an award for the performance he put on cause Im hooked - bait line and sinker

That's what I don't understand, is why believe his story on face value...Based on what? To not question the story at all? Seems odd...Especially when now-a-days, a girlfriend or wife goes missing, the boyfriend or husband makes up a story, then is later found to have done something to her...However in this case, most just believe the story...

I may be mistaken but it was my impression that McDuff was ruled out because he was not in the area at the time? Am I mistaken?

They don't know for sure where he was during that time. He was a Texan, and spent most of his time there, but he could have been making connections to the area where Angela was abducted from during the time she went missing and had been traveling I35 frequently. It connects Waco to Kansas City, Mo. He was finally arrested within a very short drive from Clinton, Mo.

Personally, I haven't found anything that could connect him other than an MO that was identical to the guy who took Angela (pick up truck, scoping out pay phones for victims, preferring very petite young women about 5' tall, successfully hiding his victims remains, and even killing a pregnant woman).

He had access to many different vehicles. I'd like to know if he was ever in possession of a truck like the one in Angela's case, whether stolen, borrowed, or whatever. His family was known to cover for him and help hide vehicles and other evidence he'd used in crimes. I think there's enough to at least look at him and try to rule him out but he's probably not the guy.

That's what I don't understand, is why believe his story on face value...Based on what? To not question the story at all? Seems odd...Especially when now-a-days, a girlfriend or wife goes missing, the boyfriend or husband makes up a story, then is later found to have done something to her...However in this case, most just believe the story...

Didn't Rob pass a poly? I know it's not conclusive, but most murderous boyfriends/husbands who aren't experienced criminals can't fool those things. I'm pretty sure they ruled him out by using other evidence tho. I'd have to go back and refresh my memory on that stuff.

That's what I don't understand, is why believe his story on face value...Based on what? To not question the story at all? Seems odd...Especially when now-a-days, a girlfriend or wife goes missing, the boyfriend or husband makes up a story, then is later found to have done something to her...However in this case, most just believe the story...



I think the police did do the proper investigation into him and I do believe he passed a lie detector test. And most boyfriend/girlfriend or spouses that actually commit the crime show other signs that they did it and 9 times out of 10 you know they are lying right off the bat, but everything in his case seems to match up.

I think the police did do the proper investigation into him and I do believe he passed a lie detector test. And most boyfriend/girlfriend or spouses that actually commit the crime show other signs that they did it and 9 times out of 10 you know they are lying right off the bat, but everything in his case seems to match up.

Match up how?

well considering he passed a poly test Id say it matches up, and his story has never changed even a little bit...and as I recall other witnesses saw the truck and the man not just angela

well considering he passed a poly test Id say it matches up, and his story has never changed even a little bit...and as I recall other witnesses saw the truck and the man not just angela

The polygraph, yes, so he must be innocent...We are relying 100% on the polygraph, then looking at suspects in Texas that we feel are more likely...What other witnesses? From what I understand, nothing was seen...Not the boyfriend tearing through downtown, not the boyfriend banging on houses after his car broke down, I haven't heard any police releases about anybody seeing anything except the boyfriend...

Two witnesses told police they saw a white man with a mustache wearing a dark-colored baseball-style cap sitting in the truck near the telephone booth Hammond was using. The witnesses' description is similar to one Hammond gave her fiance moments before the line went dead.

The polygraph, yes, so he must be innocent...We are relying 100% on the polygraph, then looking at suspects in Texas that we feel are more likely...What other witnesses? From what I understand, nothing was seen...Not the boyfriend tearing through downtown, not the boyfriend banging on houses after his car broke down, I haven't heard any police releases about anybody seeing anything except the boyfriend...

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=SydSAAAAIBAJ&sjid=wjUNAAAAIBAJ&pg=1066,7039971&dq=angela+hammond+clinton&hl=en

McDuff was a suspect in her disapperance back in 94. And this is taken from the DOE network: "Two witnesses told police they saw a white man with a mustache wearing a dark-colored baseball-style cap sitting in the truck near the telephone booth Hammond was using. The witnesses' description is similar to one Hammond gave her fiance moments before the line went dead."

Just skimmed through the thread again.

Rob did pass a poly, fwiw.

McDuff was enrolled in a Waco Tech College in "early 1991". He was known to be there in March 1991 (Angela went missing April 4, 1991).

BUT - McDuff skipped more classes than he attended. Whether he spent time in MO while skipping classes at school is unknown. His time during Angela's abduction cannot be accounted for, at least from the one book I read.

I still think the chances for his involvement are low, tho. There were quite a few similar abductions in MO during that time frame that he was likely not involved in or even definitely not involved in because of the crimes happening after he was in police custody.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=SydSAAAAIBAJ&sjid=wjUNAAAAIBAJ&pg=1066,7039971&dq=angela+hammond+clinton&hl=en

McDuff was a suspect in her disapperance back in 94. And this is taken from the DOE network: "Two witnesses told police they saw a white man with a mustache wearing a dark-colored baseball-style cap sitting in the truck near the telephone booth Hammond was using. The witnesses' description is similar to one Hammond gave her fiance moments before the line went dead."

Yeah, I saw that on Doe and I think on ColdCase also...There are a few that say none also...I wish the police would come out with what they have, but the old "open investigation" answer is all we seem to get...I don't know who did it, but in lieu of any good suspects, the bf seems to at least be the reasonable one...

The polygraph, yes, so he must be innocent...We are relying 100% on the polygraph, then looking at suspects in Texas that we feel are more likely...What other witnesses? From what I understand, nothing was seen...Not the boyfriend tearing through downtown, not the boyfriend banging on houses after his car broke down, I haven't heard any police releases about anybody seeing anything except the boyfriend...

His whereabouts could be confirmed that day and evening by dozens of friends who were with Rob and Angela at the BBQ. Then when they left, Angela's friend could confirm she visited with her for 2 hours while Rob's little brother could confirm Rob babysat for him during that same time and ran out of the house after Angela's phone call. Phone records can also confirm that Rob got a phone call from the phone booth at question with Angela's abandoned car just several feet away. You have to think this was all done in the investigation that cleared him.

The only way Rob could have pulled this off is if he hired some kind of a hitman to kidnap Angela and dump her body somewhere. Not impossible but highly unlikely for a 18 year old boy in small town Missouri to hire a hitman to kill his fiance.

according to the DOE network Angela was 4 months pregnant when she vanished...never knew that....that makes the case even more sad

Boyfriends/girlfriends, friends, and family are usually the first suspects investigators concentrate on, as they are the closest to the victims.

If the police concluded that Rob was not linked to his disappearance it is because no evidence was found to indicate he was lying, and plenty of evidence was found that he was telling the truth. Most notably his own little brother, a broken transmission booth in his car, telephone records, eye witnesses, and the fact that he had no realistic time window to leave the house, kidnap/kill Angela, hide the body, erase the physical evidence, and come back to the house within half an hour.

Rob didn't do it, end of story. We're beating a dead horse here, we don't need a polygraph to show that he was genuinely a witness to his girlfriend abduction and the last person (except the killer) to see her alive, and that he attempted to rescue her and save her life.

Boyfriends/girlfriends, friends, and family are usually the first suspects investigators concentrate on, as they are the closest to the victims.

If the police concluded that Rob was not linked to his disappearance it is because no evidence was found to indicate he was lying, and plenty of evidence was found that he was telling the truth. Most notably his own little brother, a broken transmission booth in his car, eye witnesses, and the fact that he had no realistic time window to leave the house, kidnap/kill Angela, hide the body, erase the physical evidence, and come back to the house within half an hour.

Rob didn't do it, end of story. We're beating a dead horse here, we don't need a polygraph to show that he was genuinely a witness to his girlfriend abduction and the last person (except the killer) to see her alive.

Much has been made regarding a timeline, or time window...I'm having trouble coming up with one...
Boyfriends/girlfriends, friends, and family are usually the first suspects investigators concentrate on, because they are the closest to the victims, and also because they are the guilty party almost every time...With lack of any other leads, and evidence, I would doubt the boyfriend has been completely ruled out of this case...I don't know who did the crime, the boyfriend or some random stranger, but the stats do suggest one way over the other...I do hope we find out, this is my all-time favorite case on here, and one of the most bothersome...

Please dont take offense to this, but that is the exact kind of thinking that is wrong with police work in this country. Just cause thats how it is more often than not doesnt make it so. I mean hes gone through all this with the police and they have said without a doubt he didnt have anything to do with it. Thats good enough for me. I mean what more can the kid do to prove his innocence? Does everyone in a relationship have to tape their lives ala reality tv to prove they didnt do it? Even the family believes he didnt do it, in all those cases you talk about the family almost every time believes they did it.

The way your rationale goes is even though youve proved in the eyes of the law you didnt do it...I still dont believe you because thats not how all the rest of the cases have gone so you have to be guilty

Please dont take offense to this, but that is the exact kind of thinking that is wrong with police work in this country. Just cause thats how it is more often than not doesnt make it so. I mean hes gone through all this with the police and they have said without a doubt he didnt have anything to do with it. Thats good enough for me. I mean what more can the kid do to prove his innocence? Does everyone in a relationship have to tape their lives ala reality tv to prove they didnt do it? Even the family believes he didnt do it, in all those cases you talk about the family almost every time believes they did it.

The way your rationale goes is even though youve proved in the eyes of the law you didnt do it...I still dont believe you because thats not how all the rest of the cases have gone so you have to be guilty

I should hope nobody would take offense to discussions/opionions...I'm not saying the guy is guilty of anything, just that I wouldn't think he could be ruled out...I read a lot of conflicting stories that have seemed to have evolved over the years...I'd like to know exactly what the police have & think...

I have very low confidence in polygraphs. I used to work with an experienced polygrapher and he stated categorically that they could be beaten by a good liar. McDuff seems unlikely due to his probable whereabouts. The BF's story is not one that I have great confidence in although many believe he was completely innocent. I'm not sure. Sometime ago I passed along a possible suspect to the police who were handling this case but I never heard anything as to whether it was followed up. He had a truck similar to one described with the fish decal in the window.

I suppose it is possible that Rob did this, but I try to look at it this way: True crime is not the same as Hollywood crime. To pull this off would be something that would be common in a Hollywood movie, but for a man just out of high school? It just doesn't seem realistic to me.

Don't you think every aspect of Rob's story was scrutinized at the time of Angela's disappearance by law enforcement? He was the last person to have seen her and also told a pretty extraordinary tale about trying to save her. I'm sure police scoffed at the idea initially, but after a week of investigation he was cleared. Usually if there's even the slightest bit of a person's story that was proven to be wrong or couldn't be verified, he/she would still be considered a "person of interest" by LE. But LE never said they "couldn't verify Rob's story" and that he was still a POI in the case, they ruled him out. That should be the end of the discussion. His story checked out, it was verified by law enforcement, so there really isn't anything more to say on the matter.

Don't you think every aspect of Rob's story was scrutinized at the time of Angela's disappearance by law enforcement? He was the last person to have seen her and also told a pretty extraordinary tale about trying to save her. I'm sure police scoffed at the idea initially, but after a week of investigation he was cleared. Usually if there's even the slightest bit of a person's story that was proven to be wrong or couldn't be verified, he/she would still be considered a "person of interest" by LE. But LE never said they "couldn't verify Rob's story" and that he was still a POI in the case, they ruled him out. That should be the end of the discussion. His story checked out, it was verified by law enforcement, so there really isn't anything more to say on the matter.

I can't find any statement anywhere from police that says the boyfriend is not (at least) a person of interest...With this long drawn out story, how could a few days of investigation clear anyone? I tend to think the small-town police had trouble with a case of this magnitude...We spoke about witnesses earlier, the UM segment says the reason the bf became a suspect in the first place is because there were no witnesses (articles from another source you showed said there were)...It's tough to know what parts of what articles to believe, they seem to evolve over time and tend to seem inaccurate...And those same police are very quiet on this one...Maybe they should release what they have (if anything) to renew some interest in this case...

Here's a script I've written for an "update" to the Angela Hammond case:

Stack: The suspect was driving a late 1960s or early 1970s two-tone green Ford pickup truck. The back window was completely covered by an opaque decal of a fish jumping out of water, which may look like this. There is a $16,000 reward being offered for leads in the case of Angela Hammond.

The screen does that digital fade thing, and the Unsolved Mysteries 'Update' music rises. We fade into a shot of a small, shack-lke home, clearly in the middle of nowhere. The two-tone green pickup truck is in the driveway.

Stack from beyond the grave: Update! Following a decades-long investigation that involved three different law enforcement agencies, and thanks to a tip from one of our viewers, an arrest has been made in the murder of Angela Hammond. Investigators were led to the home of <insert name here> by researching the truck Angela described on the telephone, and by combining that research with a tip from a viewer who knew <insert name here>.

Cuts to helpful viewer being interviewed.

Helpful Viewer:I had known <insert name here> for several years, and he had repeatedly bragged about killing a girl named Angela in Clinton, Missouri several years ago. At first I thought he was just kidding because I was sure Rob had done it, but after he showed me the pictures, the video tape, and the notarized confession, I knew there was something to this.

Cuts to footage of <insert name here> being led away to a police station in hand cuffs. We hear the voice of an investigator, and then the footage shifts to him.

Disappointed Investigator:In searching <insert name here>'s home, we found a detailed, written plan for the crime, as well as a detailed, written confession, a videotape of <insert name here> committing the crime, photographs of <insert name here> disposing of her remains, and a manuscript titled, How I, <Insert Name Here>, and No One Else, Murdered Angela Hammond. At that point, we stepped up our interrogations of Rob. At one point we held him for questioning for three and a half months. But Rob wouldn't break, so we were left with little choice but to pursue <insert name here> as our primary suspect.

Cut to Stack in a spooky location

Stack from Beyond the Grave:In-credibly, despite the arrest, there are many who are still not convinced of Rob's innocence.

Cut to random kook

Random Kook: If we're so sure Rob isn't guilty, how come the police haven't said Rob is totally innocent of all wrongdoing in any capacity for his entire life, before or since the murder? Sure, maybe this guy had some role in Angela's murder, but that still makes Rob guilty of NOT being involved. Think about it.

Cut back to Stack

Stack from Beyond the Grave: Despite a multi-national interpol investigation, and hundreds of millions of unfounded accusations from our viewers, no evidence has surfaced that would link Rob to Angela's murder. However, in a combined action among the governments of the G20 nations, a special intergalactic investigative force has been assembled, and its leaders have pledged to look for evidence from Earth to Alpha Centurai. A $700 trillion dollar reward is being offered for evidence leading to an arrest of Rob in this case. If you have any information, contact your interstellar bureau of investigation, or call our toll-free number, 1-800-876-5353.

Fin

LOL! Brilliant, mozart.

I think this is a good example of a case where a lack of answers just opened the field up to some really absurd theorizing.

Just one point, though I don't want to get into arguing these matters: Let's pretend for a moment that instead of Rob it was, say, a female friend of Angela's who witnessed her abduction and subsequently gave chase, etc. Every detail is identical except the identity/gender of the witness. Now, if this were so, how many people would still be arguing that the female friend is possibly guilty of Angie's murder and made the whole chase story up?

My point is similar to what another poster said recently: just because men often murder their wives (and concoct some elaborate story to the police) does not mean this is always the case. To those insisting that Rob is suspicious, I say, why, other than it's statistically more likely than a stranger abduction? You can't argue that a crime unfolded a certain way simply because it usually happens that way.

But that's enough. I'm done arguing for Rob's (I think, obvious) innocence - as I suspect most posters here are, as well. This particular dead horse is so badly beaten it's not even recognizable anymore.

Here's a script I've written for an "update" to the Angela Hammond case:

Stack: The suspect was driving a late 1960s or early 1970s two-tone green Ford pickup truck. The back window was completely covered by an opaque decal of a fish jumping out of water, which may look like this. There is a $16,000 reward being offered for leads in the case of Angela Hammond.

The screen does that digital fade thing, and the Unsolved Mysteries 'Update' music rises. We fade into a shot of a small, shack-lke home, clearly in the middle of nowhere. The two-tone green pickup truck is in the driveway.

Stack from beyond the grave: Update! Following a decades-long investigation that involved three different law enforcement agencies, and thanks to a tip from one of our viewers, an arrest has been made in the murder of Angela Hammond. Investigators were led to the home of <insert name here> by researching the truck Angela described on the telephone, and by combining that research with a tip from a viewer who knew <insert name here>.

Cuts to helpful viewer being interviewed.

Helpful Viewer:I had known <insert name here> for several years, and he had repeatedly bragged about killing a girl named Angela in Clinton, Missouri several years ago. At first I thought he was just kidding because I was sure Rob had done it, but after he showed me the pictures, the video tape, and the notarized confession, I knew there was something to this.

Cuts to footage of <insert name here> being led away to a police station in hand cuffs. We hear the voice of an investigator, and then the footage shifts to him.

Disappointed Investigator:In searching <insert name here>'s home, we found a detailed, written plan for the crime, as well as a detailed, written confession, a videotape of <insert name here> committing the crime, photographs of <insert name here> disposing of her remains, and a manuscript titled, How I, <Insert Name Here>, and No One Else, Murdered Angela Hammond. At that point, we stepped up our interrogations of Rob. At one point we held him for questioning for three and a half months. But Rob wouldn't break, so we were left with little choice but to pursue <insert name here> as our primary suspect.

Cut to Stack in a spooky location

Stack from Beyond the Grave:In-credibly, despite the arrest, there are many who are still not convinced of Rob's innocence.

Cut to random kook

Random Kook: If we're so sure Rob isn't guilty, how come the police haven't said Rob is totally innocent of all wrongdoing in any capacity for his entire life, before or since the murder? Sure, maybe this guy had some role in Angela's murder, but that still makes Rob guilty of NOT being involved. Think about it.

Cut back to Stack

Stack from Beyond the Grave: Despite a multi-national interpol investigation, and hundreds of millions of unfounded accusations from our viewers, no evidence has surfaced that would link Rob to Angela's murder. However, in a combined action among the governments of the G20 nations, a special intergalactic investigative force has been assembled, and its leaders have pledged to look for evidence from Earth to Alpha Centurai. A $700 trillion dollar reward is being offered for evidence leading to an arrest of Rob in this case. If you have any information, contact your interstellar bureau of investigation, or call our toll-free number, 1-800-876-5353.

Fin


I cant stop laughing about this...pure brilliance. Hits the points ive been trying to make right out of the park and couldnt of said it any better myself

Just one point, though I don't want to get into arguing these matters: Let's pretend for a moment that instead of Rob it was, say, a female friend of Angela's who witnessed her abduction and subsequently gave chase, etc. Every detail is identical except the identity/gender of the witness. Now, if this were so, how many people would still be arguing that the female friend is possibly guilty of Angie's murder and made the whole chase story up?

My point is similar to what another poster said recently: just because men often murder their wives (and concoct some elaborate story to the police) does not mean this is always the case.

This I like. :D

I feel it's important to be realistic about crime statistics and men are very overrepresented in terms of violent crime. In fact, in the Marie Hilley segment Robert Stack made it a point to state that 95% of serial killers and mass murderers were men and that men are "the diabolical gender". I'm not saying that isn't true. :D But I don't think it's fair to be able to say that only about some demographics and not others. It's a double standard and a pretty obvious one at that. :)

Can we get this back on topic and away from "Rob did it!!!!!" crap? Please?

I can't find any statement anywhere from police that says the boyfriend is not (at least) a person of interest...With this long drawn out story, how could a few days of investigation clear anyone? I tend to think the small-town police had trouble with a case of this magnitude...We spoke about witnesses earlier, the UM segment says the reason the bf became a suspect in the first place is because there were no witnesses (articles from another source you showed said there were)...It's tough to know what parts of what articles to believe, they seem to evolve over time and tend to seem inaccurate...And those same police are very quiet on this one...Maybe they should release what they have (if anything) to renew some interest in this case...

He was ruled out by the authorities! They don't rule you out and still consider you a person of interest. Ruling someone out means they no longer look in that direction for answers outside of what they already know.

He was ruled out by the authorities! They don't rule you out and still consider you a person of interest. Ruling someone out means they no longer look in that direction for answers outside of what they already know.

The only person anywhere that I have seen say "ruled out" was Robert Stack...I've never read where the police made any such statement...

The only person anywhere that I have seen say "ruled out" was Robert Stack...I've never read where the police made any such statement...


Google search it and you can read in about 100 articles that the police have ruled him out

just read this entire thread all 60 pages haha

i was sad to see it still isnt solved

have to agree with the majority here i dont think the boyfriend had anything to do with it.
there just wasnt the time. from the time of the phone call ending at 11:45 and the brother confirming he ran out the house and them him getting to the police station at 12. no way. especially factoring in, he would of had to get to a phone ring the police and them to come get him.
Also the friend confirming she was with her all night til she was dropped off and went to the phone booth

Dunno why if she was gonna talk on the phone for half an hour, she just didnt drive to his house if it was that close lol. Although i guess she could of just intended to quickly ring him and tell him she wouldnt be coming, but being young and in love we know how it is, you dont want to hang up and just start talking about random things and time slips away. If only she ran to the car as soon as she started getting freaked out by the guy circling. if only.

Im not too familiar with all the criminals that have been mentioned through this thread who have similar MO's but im guessing it wasnt pre determined. i mean how would he have known she would be there. that she wouldnt go to his house and just stop and use a phone in a deserted place
definitely just noticed her there and circled a bit making sure there was no one around then just went for it.
And there was no way for him to know she was talking to someone who lived so close by. he probably assumed she was ringing someone out of town or couldnt get there very fast

anyway yeah just thought id comment so i get notifications if anyone updates :)

Call it paranoia, but I tend to find people who always make sure the topic gets bogged down on the "Rob did it!" cry suspicious.

I've noticed a pattern with this thread:

Someone will bring back the thread
people will get to the discussion of suspects
and then usually one or more of the same people (they know who they are) will jump in and say "ROB DID IT THERE'S NO PROOF HE DIDN'T"
then an argument will ensue over Rob not doing it,
and finally, the conversation will die down again due to frustration over having to explain why Rob didn't do it for the 100th time.

Rinse, repeat. It's suspicious to me why certain people--of which there is a VERY small number--have an obsessive need to shout "ROB DID IT", knowing they're derailing the topic and causing people to get frustrated and lose interest. Someone who had a vested interest in people being distracted from the bigger picture and going around in circles, never coming closer to the truth, or someone who had a vested interest in getting people to believe ROB DID IT, would do such.

So what's next in looking for her and/or her suppose killer? Last I heard, they have DNA of some kind from the phone booth she was taken from. I don't think the phone booth is in the same spot it was when she was abducted, but hopefully that DNA can lead to some answers these 21 years later.

Call it paranoia, but I tend to find people who always make sure the topic gets bogged down on the "Rob did it!" cry suspicious.

I've noticed a pattern with this thread:

Someone will bring back the thread
people will get to the discussion of suspects
and then usually one or more of the same people (they know who they are) will jump in and say "ROB DID IT THERE'S NO PROOF HE DIDN'T"
then an argument will ensue over Rob not doing it,
and finally, the conversation will die down again due to frustration over having to explain why Rob didn't do it for the 100th time.

Rinse, repeat. It's suspicious to me why certain people--of which there is a VERY small number--have an obsessive need to shout "ROB DID IT", knowing they're derailing the topic and causing people to get frustrated and lose interest. Someone who had a vested interest in people being distracted from the bigger picture and going around in circles, never coming closer to the truth, or someone who had a vested interest in getting people to believe ROB DID IT, would do such.

I've also noticed how these same people do not post in any of the other threads either.

I've also noticed how these same people do not post in any of the other threads either.
Yes! It's very strange. It's fine to have a different opinion, but to only probe one thread sounds like trolling.

Generally speaking when the boyfriend/husband did it,they don't have much of a story. It is usually something along the lines of "she was here one minute then she was gone, and she left this letter (that I actually wrote)."
And the people that actually are guilty of such things are usually some of the most arrogant SOB's imaginable. We dont seem to have that type of thing here, at least based on what UM presented.

Generally speaking when the boyfriend/husband did it,they don't have much of a story. It is usually something along the lines of "she was here one minute then she was gone, and she left this letter (that I actually wrote)."
And the people that actually are guilty of such things are usually some of the most arrogant SOB's imaginable. We dont seem to have that type of thing here, at least based on what UM presented.

Haha, you would think Rob Page could have at least forged Pam's signature correctly. :lol: Or how about Mark Nichols vehemently denying that he chopped up Christy and buried her at the dump. You could almost hear him want to add "Well...I did kill her, BUT I DID NOT DO THAT. :mad:"

:lol:

Presumably phone records also confirmed the call to Rob from the phone booth. If so, unless we want to believe there was a third party who would have placed that call or for him to have placed the call to his younger brother who he was supposed to be babysitting, I don't see how else that call could have been confirmed, assuming it was. There would simply not be enough time for Rob to have pulled this off. Maybe if he was a criminal mastermind or serial killer rather than a young man fresh out of high school.

Haha, you would think Rob Page could have at least forged Pam's signature correctly. :lol: Or how about Mark Nichols vehemently denying that he chopped up Christy and buried her at the dump. You could almost hear him want to add "Well...I did kill her, BUT I DID NOT DO THAT..
true and what's sad is even if they had evidence that Rob did it, cant charge him.
Maybe if he was a criminal mastermind or serial killer rather than a young man fresh out of high school.
i am with you, i am actually really tired of hearing this same theory. i have already given MY theory. i think the guy who did this was an out of towner, loner type. likely passing through town and saw a sick opportunity. i dont think Rob did it here because of many reasons including, where did he hide the body?? you would think that if Rob did it that the body would be found and with his timeline, where would he hide the body?? i see the guy who did this being an out of towner, likely killed her and hid her body in another town or state.

HE DIDN'T DO IT.

Ok, I feel better now.

Just a note for those that are interested...

This particular case is being analyzed and discussed at the Forensic Astrology website. You might get some important tips to help in solving this crime from what is presented.

Good luck!

James

I don't think it was McDuff. At the time of Angela Hammond's dissapearance he was enrolled at Waco Technical Institute, and from everything I've heard he was selling drugs to students, praying on them and such. With all that going on, why would he drive six or seven hours to an obscure place like Clinton, Missouri for a victim?

Granted, the murder does in some ways fit his MO, and I think he was capable of pulling it off, but I don't think he did because he didn't move to Missouri until early 1992. I don't think he can be completely ruled out but I don't think he did it.

I've said several times I think Larry Hall is a stronger suspect. Larry Hall was almost always in transit visiting Civil War battle reinactments, his known victims are very similar to Angela Hammond, he was most certainly active in 1991 and was not caught until 1994, and he definitely killed throughout several midwest states including Missouri. I'm pretty sure there was a murder he commited in Indiana about two months before Angela Hammond was abducted.

McDuff I think was relatively grounded in Waco in early 1991, I don't think he started moving around for victims until later that year.


TrueCrimeDiary.com has an interview (http://www.truecrimediary.com/index.cfm?page=cases&id=174) posted with the author of a book on Larry Hall. You should check it out. He believes Hall (and possibly his twin brother Gary) are responsible for the deaths of Angela Hammond, Cheryl Kenney, The Springfield Three, and others:

Your research into Hall has resulted in the discovery of several other murders and disappearances he might be responsible for. Can you tell us about a few you find most compelling?


There are two that I find most interesting. The first is Angela Marie Hammond who was abducted while she was on the telephone in April of 1991. I considered adding her case when I wrote the book, but the reported suspect was driving a pickup truck. Larry Hall never drove a pickup, he drove vans that he used as mobile killing vehicles. After the book was published, I received a telephone call from a detective in Clinton, Missouri, where Angela was kidnapped. I told him I had considered Angela a “Larry girl” because she resembled many of the girls he took and because of the circumstances under which she was taken. I told him I had not included her case in the book because of the pickup truck theory. He then said they had pretty much discounted the pickup truck theory.


We talked about Larry Hall and some of the cases in which he was suspected. The detective then mentioned that he had an artist’s sketch of the suspect. I asked him if he could email it and he did while I was on the phone with him. Simultaneously, I emailed him Larry Hall’s 1994 booking photo. I was astonished when the sketch came up on the screen. It was clearly Larry Hall. The detective said “wow” when he saw the booking photo.

TrueCrimeDiary.com has an interview (http://www.truecrimediary.com/index.cfm?page=cases&id=174) posted with the author of a book on Larry Hall. You should check it out. He believes Hall (and possibly his twin brother Gary) are responsible for the deaths of Angela Hammond, Cheryl Kenney, The Springfield Three, and others:

Very interesting, nowheregirl! I've never heard of Larry Hall and will definitely be checking him out.

I don't understand what the detective meant when he said they'd discounted the pick up truck theory.

I told him I had considered Angela a “Larry girl” because she resembled many of the girls he took and because of the circumstances under which she was taken. I told him I had not included her case in the book because of the pickup truck theory. He then said they had pretty much discounted the pickup truck theory. (Larry Hall drove vans.)

Angela described the pick up to Rob over the phone. Then when he went to the area to find out what was happening, he saw the pick up, chased it, heard Angela scream his name from it, etc.

Is the detective saying they now believe that the abductor was driving a completely different vehicle, not a pick up? That although Rob had a similar truck, he was mistaken about the vehicle he chased? Or that Rob simply chased a vehicle that was not involved in Angela's abduction?

They would have to discount Rob's first hand information (and the 2nd hand information from Angela) to decide that a pick up truck was not involved. Why is this "detective in Clinton" doing that?

I don't understand what the detective meant when he said they'd discounted the pick up truck theory.

(Larry Hall drove vans.)

Angela described the pick up to Rob over the phone. Then when he went to the area to find out what was happening, he saw the pick up, chased it, heard Angela scream his name from it, etc.

Is the detective saying they now believe that the abductor was driving a completely different vehicle, not a pick up? That although Rob had a similar truck, he was mistaken about the vehicle he chased? Or that Rob simply chased a vehicle that was not involved in Angela's abduction?

They would have to discount Rob's first hand information (and the 2nd hand information from Angela) to decide that a pick up truck was not involved. Why is this "detective in Clinton" doing that?
I picked up on the "theory" thing too, Tracy. Those are the words of the author, not a direct quote from the detective. Maybe he was a bit mixed up and didn't chose the best words. It's definitely not a theory...it's an account from the victim and the main eye witness (whom I happen to believe)! Still I'm not sure what it means that they discounted the truck aspect of the case. These are 2 totally different kinds of vehicles and the description was quite specific. It's not a case of light blue vs. grey, for instance. I think it's worth a follow-up question.

I picked up on the "theory" thing too, Tracy. Those are the words of the author, not a direct quote from the detective. Maybe he was a bit mixed up and didn't chose the best words. It's definitely not a theory...it's an account from the victim and the main eye witness (whom I happen to believe)! Still I'm not sure what it means that they discounted the truck aspect of the case. These are 2 totally different kinds of vehicles and the description was quite specific. It's not a case of light blue vs. grey, for instance. I think it's worth a follow-up question.

I think her case in general needs someone to go over it with a fine tooth comb--Access to the PD's files. They messed up in 1991 and it doesn't seem like they're running a good ship now. I'd like to know whatever came of that supposed DNA evidence they had 2 years ago, and why they've supposedly discounted the Pick Up Truck. It's an old case yes, but Justice should never sleep--I'd like if they were more up front.

I myself believed Hall was a very likely suspect because his MO, his choice in victims, his range of operation and the period he murdered in, along with his physical appearance, all line up with Angela's case.

While Hall might not have OWNED a Pick Up, is it not possible he was borrowing one from a friend? He did have friends, he wasn't one of the total loner serial killer types.

There's several good suspects and all are either in jail or dead, but it'd be nice to know WHO it was. Just to close the book and give her family closure. The one worry I have is that her abductor/murderer was not someone whose name we know--someone who is free today. That's a worry of mine. That some hillbilly in the backwoods of Missouri or a surrounding state has her and who knows how many other innocent women buried on his property. It's a very creepy thought.

I think her case in general needs someone to go over it with a fine tooth comb--Access to the PD's files. They messed up in 1991 and it doesn't seem like they're running a good ship now. I'd like to know whatever came of that supposed DNA evidence they had 2 years ago, and why they've supposedly discounted the Pick Up Truck. It's an old case yes, but Justice should never sleep--I'd like if they were more up front.

I myself believed Hall was a very likely suspect because his MO, his choice in victims, his range of operation and the period he murdered in, along with his physical appearance, all line up with Angela's case.

While Hall might not have OWNED a Pick Up, is it not possible he was borrowing one from a friend? He did have friends, he wasn't one of the total loner serial killer types.

There's several good suspects and all are either in jail or dead, but it'd be nice to know WHO it was. Just to close the book and give her family closure. The one worry I have is that her abductor/murderer was not someone whose name we know--someone who is free today. That's a worry of mine. That some hillbilly in the backwoods of Missouri or a surrounding state has her and who knows how many other innocent women buried on his property. It's a very creepy thought.

I hope this isn't the case as well, but its extremely difficult to gauge the odds in a case like this. We really don't know how many dissapearances there has been of young women similar to Angela Hammond in the last two decades in the surrounding states. I'm sure law enforcement has done extensive research on this to try and determine if there is still a serial killer on the loose.

The thing with serial killers is the more they deviate from their MO, the harder they are to catch because it makes them more difficult to track. We just don't know enough about Angela Hammond's abductor, there is always the chance he was a one time offender who saw a sick oppurunity, but I've always thought it was unlikely, guys who would do that are usually predators who don't stop.

If indeed the killer was Larry Hall, the bad part about that is Hall was known to have no memory of his own crimes. If he killed Angela Hammond he may not remember it and the truth may never come out unless they can somehow link him to her through DNA, or find her remains which is a long shot after all these years.

So the one good thing about the killer still being out there is there is still a chance he could be caught and be exposed through confession or DNA to be Angela's killer.

I do pray for a miracle that Angela's family might finally have closure.

I hope this isn't the case as well, but its extremely difficult to gauge the odds in a case like this. We really don't know how many dissapearances there has been of young women similar to Angela Hammond in the last two decades in the surrounding states. I'm sure law enforcement has done extensive research on this to try and determine if there is still a serial killer on the loose.

The thing with serial killers is the more they deviate from their MO, the harder they are to catch because it makes them more difficult to track. We just don't know enough about Angela Hammond's abductor, there is always the chance he was a one time offender who saw a sick oppurunity, but I've always thought it was unlikely, guys who would do that are usually predators who don't stop.

If indeed the killer was Larry Hall, the bad part about that is Hall was known to have no memory of his own crimes. If he killed Angela Hammond he may not remember it and the truth may never come out unless they can somehow link him to her through DNA, or find her remains which is a long shot after all these years.

So the one good thing about the killer still being out there is there is still a chance he could be caught and be exposed through confession or DNA to be Angela's killer.

I do pray for a miracle that Angela's family might finally have closure.

I don't think he was a one timer. The predatory behavior (circling around the block multiple times, likely scoping out to see just how vulnerable Angela was--was there anyone else around, any male, etc) and his general seemingly calm demeanor (from what Angie described, anyway) along with his chilling line of "I didn't need to use the phone anyway" say to me this was someone who had probably done this or something like it before. Who had raped or even murdered at least one prior woman. To be in that sort of control over himself speaks of experience. Of course, the mind of a sociopath and his true demeanor that night (IE, was he hesitating at all, was he fidgeting with nerves) can never truly be known. Angie gave a description but she didn't know he was going to grab her so I doubt she studied him that carefully.

Even if it was his first time, I don't believe there are true one time thrill killers. The kind of person who took Angela Hammond--Likely a lust oriented serial killer who probably (as unfortunate as it is to say) raped her before her murder--Lives for his fantasies. That is how these men start--They formulate a fantasy and first act it out with animals, or sexually, and it gradually becomes more and more intense until it consumes them.

Even in prison, these fantasies drive their being. In prison, thrill or lust killers hold on to their memories of their kills as a way of reliving the thrill of the kill. As a way of holding to that feeling since they can't experience it again with a new victim. It's often why some killers keep 'trophies' or even revisit the murder scene or the abduction scene. It's like an addict who has a crippling addiction--It drives their every impulse. They HAVE to have it. A serial killer, particularly of the thrill or lust sort, is literally addicted to the sense of power, thrill and control that rape and murder bring, as sick as that is.

So even if Angie was his first victim, there were more than likely more. Rob chasing him--Probably unexpected to say the least--might have scared him into stopping for a while but serial killers always need to start again. He might've moved a couple of states away after Rob chased him--He realized he could've gotten caught. It's like an alcoholic who is in recovery--They may be in recovery for years only to suddenly fall off the wagon again. Look at BTK. Wasn't there at least a decade or more between his last victim and his planned victim before he got caught?

What astounds and creeps me out the most about serial killers, and sociopaths in general, is how they can imitate being normal so well. It's frightening. They KNOW empathy, they UNDERSTAND empathy, but they don't FEEL it like normal people. It's frightening how they use other's empathy as a tool to aid them in murder--Like Bundy, he played on his victim's sense of compassion by pretending to be injured as a way to lure them in. It's even more frightening how a killer could look at his victim, even talk to him or her, normal human interaction, then within minutes abduct or kill them. Like with Angela--She asked him politely if he needed to use the phone and he said no, he'd try again later. A normal human interaction and mean while that sick bastard knew he was going to end an innocent life within minutes. I'm ranting yes, but I feel serial killers are subhuman. They are like predatory animals that pretend to be human.

Anyway, back on point. An alternate theory is that the guy was truly a sick first timer. His circling around the block could've been his nerves rather than careful calcuating. His mind could've been racing--"Should I do it? Her? How do I do it?" And it may explain why he didn't just jump out of his truck and grab her, why he waited while she was on the phone and even talked to her. He may have been a tad bit nervous, it might have been his first time and so he wasn't sure if he was going to do it or not until something snapped and he made his decision.

I don't think he was a one timer. The predatory behavior (circling around the block multiple times, likely scoping out to see just how vulnerable Angela was--was there anyone else around, any male, etc) and his general seemingly calm demeanor (from what Angie described, anyway) along with his chilling line of "I didn't need to use the phone anyway" say to me this was someone who had probably done this or something like it before. Who had raped or even murdered at least one prior woman. To be in that sort of control over himself speaks of experience. Of course, the mind of a sociopath and his true demeanor that night (IE, was he hesitating at all, was he fidgeting with nerves) can never truly be known. Angie gave a description but she didn't know he was going to grab her so I doubt she studied him that carefully.

Even if it was his first time, I don't believe there are true one time thrill killers. The kind of person who took Angela Hammond--Likely a lust oriented serial killer who probably (as unfortunate as it is to say) raped her before her murder--Lives for his fantasies. That is how these men start--They formulate a fantasy and first act it out with animals, or sexually, and it gradually becomes more and more intense until it consumes them.

Even in prison, these fantasies drive their being. In prison, thrill or lust killers hold on to their memories of their kills as a way of reliving the thrill of the kill. As a way of holding to that feeling since they can't experience it again with a new victim. It's often why some killers keep 'trophies' or even revisit the murder scene or the abduction scene. It's like an addict who has a crippling addiction--It drives their every impulse. They HAVE to have it. A serial killer, particularly of the thrill or lust sort, is literally addicted to the sense of power, thrill and control that rape and murder bring, as sick as that is.

So even if Angie was his first victim, there were more than likely more. Rob chasing him--Probably unexpected to say the least--might have scared him into stopping for a while but serial killers always need to start again. He might've moved a couple of states away after Rob chased him--He realized he could've gotten caught. It's like an alcoholic who is in recovery--They may be in recovery for years only to suddenly fall off the wagon again. Look at BTK. Wasn't there at least a decade or more between his last victim and his planned victim before he got caught?

What astounds and creeps me out the most about serial killers, and sociopaths in general, is how they can imitate being normal so well. It's frightening. They KNOW empathy, they UNDERSTAND empathy, but they don't FEEL it like normal people. It's frightening how they use other's empathy as a tool to aid them in murder--Like Bundy, he played on his victim's sense of compassion by pretending to be injured as a way to lure them in. It's even more frightening how a killer could look at his victim, even talk to him or her, normal human interaction, then within minutes abduct or kill them. Like with Angela--She asked him politely if he needed to use the phone and he said no, he'd try again later. A normal human interaction and mean while that sick bastard knew he was going to end an innocent life within minutes. I'm ranting yes, but I feel serial killers are subhuman. They are like predatory animals that pretend to be human.

Anyway, back on point. An alternate theory is that the guy was truly a sick first timer. His circling around the block could've been his nerves rather than careful calcuating. His mind could've been racing--"Should I do it? Her? How do I do it?" And it may explain why he didn't just jump out of his truck and grab her, why he waited while she was on the phone and even talked to her. He may have been a tad bit nervous, it might have been his first time and so he wasn't sure if he was going to do it or not until something snapped and he made his decision.

I think animal urges exists in almost every single person, I believe most men have a deep dark desire to dominate women sexually. Its a hormonal thing.

If you look back at the serial killers in history, most of them are sexually motivated, and most of them are men. Thats not a coincidence. Whether they have heterosexual motivations like Gacy or Dahmer, or heterosexual like Bundy, the East Area Rapist, or Ridgeway.

So I think what sets apart a serial killer or predator from a normal man is a sense of love and sacrifice. Normal men with love in their heart and respect for women can conquer their base desires for the sake of others, whereas serial killers and sexual predators cannot. But I still think almost every man does have that in them, it is the ones with love in their heart who can conquer it, since love is about sacrifice.

I know that probably sounds like a simple explanation, but I do think serial killers and predators quite simply have no love in their heart.

the repeat behavior of it seems to be a sick,twisted addiction somehow,and /or an adrenaline junkie thrill.this is jmo;I have no idea of the dynamics involved in serial killers.some say they don't want to know,but we NEED to understand it as a society to stop from happening.

I know this has probably been answered, but have they ever "officially" ruled out the men responsible for Trudy Darby's murder in Angela's case?

I know this has probably been answered, but have they ever "officially" ruled out the men responsible for Trudy Darby's murder in Angela's case?

I believe they ruled them out at some point, yes. I still think it's bull. One of the brothers was openly talking about killing at least two other women besides Darby but it was never brought to trial--I forget why. Something about not wanting to give them another trial since they were already found guilty in the Darby case.

Ok so I found some old articles online about Angela Hammond and a few of our questions/ debates were answered.....
Why was she at a pay phone at night?A) She had no home phone.
Also, there were 2 witnesses that clearly stated that they saw similar suspect in similar truck in that location....

The Kansas City Star October 4, 1991

Edition: METROPOLITAN
Section: NATIONAL/WORLD
Page: A1
Topics:
Index Terms:
Kidnapping

Family of missing woman hasn't given up hope Angela Hammond vanished 6 months ago.

Author: LANE BEAUCHAMP; Springfield Correspondent

Article Text:CLINTON, Mo. - Day by day, those who know Angela Hammond try to get on with their lives. Her fiance trains for the military. Her mother plans a long-delayed vacation. Her best friend seeks work in Colorado. And yet they can't forget the night, six months ago today, when Hammond vanished just a few blocks from this west-central Missouri town's square. She hasn't been seen or heard from since. "I know the statistics aren't good at this point for finding her, but until something happens, you can't give up," Hammond's mother, Marsha Cook, said this week. "The hope is always going to be there. " Hammond, 20, disappeared about 11:45 p.m. on April 4. Police think she was abducted while talking to her fiance from a pay telephone in supermarket parking lot. Hammond's fiance heard her scream, then the line went dead.

The disappearance sparked an intensive air and ground search across the region for days. A special team of investigators - including Highway Patrol officers and federal agents - dug into the case. A reward fund topped $16,000. Authorities also searched unsuccessfully for possible links to two similar disappearances in western Missouri. In Nevada, a convenience store worker disappeared after closing up shop Feb. 27. In Macks Creek, Mo., another convenience store worker was robbed and abducted Jan. 19. Her body was found in the Little Niangua River two days later. Those cases also remain unsolved. Investigators said this week that although similarities exist among the three cases, there still is no concrete evidence to connect the crimes. And so far no solid clues in Hammond's case have been found. Clinton police Detective Damon Parsons said the investigation was no further along today than it was a few weeks after Hammond was abducted. "There's someone out there who has information, but they just may not realize it," Parsons said. "Until they come forward or until she's found, there really is not much more we could do. " Authorities and Hammond's friends and family are now pinning their hopes on network television for leads in the case. The NBC-TV program "Unsolved Mysteries" will be in Clinton next week to re-enact the kidnapping. The episode is tentatively set to air in early December. "Hopefully somebody will see this and have some information," said Hammond's stepmother, Kathy Hammond, of Olathe. "We feel so helpless and frustrated because there isn't anything we can do. Maybe this show will bring some answers. " But the show may bring false hope. David Rader, one of the program's producers, said only two of 49 missing-persons cases presented on the show have been solved. Police are looking for a late 1960s model Ford pickup with a water or outdoor scene in the rear window and possibly with a white top. The truck may have damage to its left front fender.

Two witnesses told police they saw a white man with a mustache wearing a dark-colored baseball-style cap sitting in the truck near the telephone booth Hammond was using. The witnesses' description is similar to one Hammond gave her fiance moments before the line went dead. The lingering investigation has left Hammond's friends and family in a state of limbo. "I guess you think time will heal everything, but we're six months down the road now and I'm still not any better," Cook said. "It's still just a roller coaster of emotions. " This week Cook was planning her first vacation since her daughter disappeared. She won a trip to Florida through her work, but leaving was not an easy decision to make.

"I need some time to step back, but it was hard to decide to go out of town," Cook said. "I was convinced, though, that it would be OK to leave for a couple of days, and I really need that time. " Rob Shafer, Hammond's fiance, has been training as a National Guardsman at Fort Eustis, Va., since June. Attempts to reach him by telephone this week were unsuccessful. But Hammond's mother said Shafer seems to be taking the disappearance hard. "He's kind of shut himself off," Cook said. Posters still hang in storefront windows here and at truck stops and rest areas across the Midwest. Police have checked possible sightings of Hammond as far as Texas and looked into suspects in and out of prison. Conservation agents patrolling the area's hills and lakes are routinely reminded of the case. "At least I know people are still out there looking," Cook said.

The Kansas City Star April 7, 1991
Edition: METROPOLITAN
Section: NATIONAL/WORLD
Page: A1
Clinton woman is kidnapped Boyfriend hears her screams.Link to other abductions suspected.
Author: JOE LAMBE; Staff Writer
Article Text:Before she disappeared late Thursday, Angela M. Hammond got off work and called her boyfriend from a pay telephone in an empty supermarket parking lot in Clinton, Mo. As she spoke, the 20-year-old woman noticed an old green pickup circling the lot. Suspicious, she described the truck over the phone. The truck stopped, and she told her boyfriend of the man who got out - a white man with glasses, a mustache and a beard. Then she screamed, said her boyfriend, Rob Shafer of Clinton. The phone went dead. Shafer, 18, said in an interview Saturday that after Hammond screamed he jumped into his car and raced to the Food Barn parking lot, about 11 p.m. Thursday.

He passed what he thought was a yellow truck. Then he heard Hammond scream again. "When she screamed at me out the window," he said, "I put it in reverse and started chasing him. " Shafer chased the truck about a mile, he said, racing south on Clinton's 2nd Street, then turning west on Culvert Drive. But his car's transmission failed, Shafer said, and the pickup - maybe a 1969 or 1970 Ford - sped away. The truck may have had a decal of a water scene on the back window. Hammond has not been seen since. Police found her car in the parking lot that night, said Clinton Detective Damon Parsons.

The FBI and Henry County Sheriff also are investigating. Authorities believe Hammond's abduction could be related to kidnappings in January and February of women in Camden County, Mo., and Nevada, Mo. One of the women, Trudy Darby, 42, was abducted in January from a convenience store near Macks Creek in Camden County, where she worked as a clerk. Shortly before she disappeared, about 10 p.m. Jan. 19, she called her son from work telling him about a suspicious man outside the store. When her son arrived five minutes later, he found only his mother's purse and an empty cash drawer, police said. Authorities found Darby's nude body two days later in the Little Niangua River. She had been shot twice in the head with a shotgun. The other woman, also a convenience store clerk, disappeared Feb. 27, right after closing up for the night about 10 p.m.

Police said the woman, Cheryl Ann Kenney, 30, has never been found. Her car was discovered the next morning outside the Nevada convenience store. Hammond worked tallying evening accounts at a Clinton bank. Max Geiman, special agent for the FBI in Kansas City, said there was no solid evidence linking the three abductions, but police were examining possible connections. "This is extremely suspicous," he said. Police searched the area by air Saturday but found nothing, Parsons said. Angela's parents, Kathy and Chris Hammond of Olathe, said Saturday that all they can do now is wait and worry. Kathy Hammond has been passing out her stepdaughter's picture to newspapers and television stations, hoping for a breakthrough.

The Kansas City Star April 8, 1991
Edition: METROPOLITAN
Section: METROPOLITAN
Page: B1
Topics:
Index Terms:
Kidnapping
Latest disappearance offers first lead
Author: LANE BEAUCHAMP; Springfield Correspondent

Article Text:CLINTON, Mo. - A woman screams, her pay phone goes dead. With that, the FBI and police in west-central Missouri have yet a third baffling case of a woman vanishing from a store in her hometown. The disappearance Thursday of Angela M. Hammond from a telephone booth outside the Food Barn in Clinton is sparking new concern among investigators that the crimes are more than coincidence. Since Jan. 19, three women from towns within 80 miles of one another have disappeared late at night from deserted stores.

Two of the women were closing up shop. The third, Hammond, had stopped to call her fiance. Clinton police Detective Damon Parsons said Sunday that there is nothing definitive to link the crimes, but "you've got to keep it in mind. " FBI spokesman Jeff Lanza said, "The possibility that all are related is only a theory at this point but one we are investigating. " One of the three women, Trudy Darby of Macks Creek, was found dead. The search continues for Hammond and Cheryl Ann Kenney of Nevada. The absence of any solid leads makes the going rough. In Darby's case, police have gotten conflicting descriptions of a man seen in the area. No one has been able to provide a suspect in the Kenney case. Hammond's case gives police the best lead so far. And even that is a sketchy description of a suspect: a dirty-looking white man with a mustache and beard, driving a 1969 or 1970 Ford pickup and wearing overalls. Local, county, state and federal authorities are sharing notes and following up leads in hopes of breaking open the three cases. The women: Angela M. Hammond, 20. Hammond was last heard from Thursday night when she talked to her fiance from the telephone booth.

She told her fiance of a truck circling the lot. Then he heard a scream and the line went dead. Hammond, who is four months pregnant, was born in the Kansas City area and moved away at age 4. Her father, Chris Hammond, lives in Olathe. Cheryl Ann Kenney, 30. Kenney was last seen Feb. 27 as she closed a Nevada convenience store. The store was found locked, and Kenney's car was parked nearby. Nevada Police Lt. Norman Turner said Sunday that authorities have not ruled out that Kenney, depressed over her mother's recent death, may have left on her own. But, Turner said, she left behind her two children and husband, an ailing father she visited every day and her car. Kenney also had only about $6 when she vanished. Trudy Darby, 42. Darby disappeared Jan. 19 from the Camden County convenience store where she worked.

In a brief telephone conversation with her son that evening she told of a suspicious-looking man outside. The store was found unlocked and the cash drawer empty. Darby was found shot to death in the Little Niangua River two days later. Investigators have said there might be a link between Darby's abduction and killing and an attempted kidnapping 90 minutes earlier in Sedalia. As for the search for Hammond on Sunday, there were no developments, Parsons said. About 250 volunteers searched the woods and fields of Clinton and Henry County, looking for any sign of Hammond or the man she described, but they came across nothing. "I just want to find her," said Hammond's 18-year-old fiance, Rob Shafer. "I haven't lost hope. " Friends and relatives described Hammond as an outgoing, personable young woman who "loved to have fun. " Hammond usually worked nights at a Clinton bank but did not work the night she disappeared. Hammond's best friend, Kyla Engeman, said she and Hammond had been cruising the town square when they split up about 11:15 p.m. Hammond, who did not have a telephone, stopped by the parking lot booth to call Shafer.

Shafer said they talked for about 30 minutes. During that conversation Hammond told of a man who used a telephone next to her, left in a pickup truck, then returned and circled the parking lot. A moment later, Shafer heard Hammond scream. Shafer said he drove toward the supermarket, only a few blocks from his house. As he approached he saw a yellow or green pickup coming toward him and heard Hammond scream his name. Although he did not see her, he turned around and tried to follow the truck. He lost it when his truck stalled. As the searchers fanned out Sunday afternoon, Hammond's mother, Marsha Cook of nearby Montrose, expressed amazement at the support. "You never know how many friends you have until something like this happens," Cook said. "It's absolutely wonderful. " Cook also echoed a feeling shared by many throughout this community: "Things like this just don't happen in places like Clinton, Mo. She didn't know enough to be afraid. " Chris Hammond, staying in Clinton, could not be reached Sunday night. Darlene McFeters, assistant manager at a convenience store two blocks from where Hammond disappeared, said the event had made her more careful. "You move to a small town thinking you're getting away from that," McFeters said. "I don't know how anybody could not be more cautious now.

I also think Rob seems innocent. The one weird thing: I find it very odd that Angie described the abductor's truck in such detail. If it was me, I would have just said, ''Yeah, some weird old truck with a fish jumping out of water on the back window'' not given a model type and year, etc. Then again, maybe she just knew more about cars than I do. And as for why Rob didn't charge down there at first, the last thing on his mind or anyone's mind would be abduction, I'm sure. Same with Angie. This time, however, the slim chance that something awful like that would happen ended up being what actually occured. So sad.

Did Angie give the detailed description or did Rob?

Besides, maybe she was a geargirl (the female version of a gear head, aka someone into cars.) At her age I could look at any American car of a certain era and give you the make, model and year of the vehicle without seeing the logo.

Did Angie give the detailed description or did Rob?

Besides, maybe she was a geargirl (the female version of a gear head, aka someone into cars.) At her age I could look at any American car of a certain era and give you the make, model and year of the vehicle without seeing the logo.

Angie gave the description of the man (filthy, beareded man dressed in overalls, either circling around her in his truck or looking at her ugly while he was searching something inside his truck).

Rob gave the description of the car, including the detail of the back glass window.

what happened to the body after all these years?

what happened to the body after all these years?

For all we know, maybe Angie's body have been found long ago in another county and never identified, and thus is registered as a Jane Doe. :(

Wouldn't the police or her family look into that ?

I remember watching this segment on UM when I was young, it made me fearful of using payphones at night.

Wouldn't the police or her family look into that ?

Kind of surprisingly, there are many times when an unidentified body isn't checked against known missing people.

Fifteen year old Emily Garcia, murdered in texas in the 1990s, was found within hours of death, and IIRC one county away from home, within 50 miles of where she went missing. Her fingerprints were on file as part of a child fingerprinting safety event her mother had her participate in, but they weren't checked against the fingerprint database so she was not ID'd and was buried in a pauper's grave. It was over a year before here family found out what happened and was able to have her exhumed and buried properly in the family plot. I've posted more details on this case in another thread here in the UM forum.

Just a few days ago, I just read about a woman who'd been murdered in the 1970s and whose body had been in the medical examiner's office for 20 years. She was just ID'd but they haven't found her killer. Has anyone else read about that case? I did a quick search, but can't find it right now.

Hockeygirl,

I just noticed you're a new member here. So glad you joined us! Welcome! :wave:

Angie gave the description of the man (filthy, beareded man dressed in overalls, either circling around her in his truck or looking at her ugly while he was searching something inside his truck).

Rob gave the description of the car, including the detail of the back glass window.
The reenactment also has Angie talking about the kind of truck it is while on the phone, but that might just be inaccurate.

Hockeygirl,

I just noticed you're a new member here. So glad you joined us! Welcome! :wave:

:wave: Thank-you. I've been creeping this board for years. I thought I would finally make an account....

I still wish this show was on. Just think of how many families and loved ones that would help...

Kind of surprisingly, there are many times when an unidentified body isn't checked against known missing people.

Fifteen year old Emily Garcia, murdered in texas in the 1990s, was found within hours of death, and IIRC one county away from home, within 50 miles of where she went missing. Her fingerprints were on file as part of a child fingerprinting safety event her mother had her participate in, but they weren't checked against the fingerprint database so she was not ID'd and was buried in a pauper's grave. It was over a year before here family found out what happened and was able to have her exhumed and buried properly in the family plot. I've posted more details on this case in another thread here in the UM forum.

Just a few days ago, I just read about a woman who'd been murdered in the 1970s and whose body had been in the medical examiner's office for 20 years. She was just ID'd but they haven't found her killer. Has anyone else read about that case? I did a quick search, but can't find it right now.

This seriously pisses me off. So many cases would be solved, if only the police would do some extra work.

Breaks my heart knowing families are out there hoping their loved ones will come home someday.

I agree with you. I was just reading about a case about missing girl names Connie who disapeared from here summer camp in the 50's. She was apparently related to a governer of one of the states. A body was discovered years later and they tried to match the remains to Connie dental records. In 2004 the authorites took DNA samples from her family and then could not remember were they burried the body. I'm was shocked they did'nt keep record of the burial sence it coukl possibly solve a case.

I have been reading cases on here for years, just never got around to making an account until now. This case really stuck out in my mind when I saw it on UM. I've read all 63 pages of this thread over the past two days. It was quite a task. Anyway, I hope a new lead comes up soon. The more time that goes by, the less likely it is that it will be solved.

I have been following this thread for a long time, and, like a coward, never posted a word. I believe it is very possible that Marvin Chainey may be Angela Hammond's killer. Jess Rush could have been involved as well. I knew them both. I was not, nor ever was his Jess's girlfriend, like the police reports state. I was his friend, until he told me how he killed Trudy. Then I immediately turned him into the police. I pretended to be his friend up to the time I realized he would never get out of prison. Then I thought I was free from the whole situation, and I thought I could go on with my life.
Jess Rush kept in contact with my niece, and has since married her. They are trying to get him out of prison. Since he was a juvenile when the crime was committed, it is possible that the state could grant him parole because some people think it's cruel and unusual for juveniles to receive 'life without parole'.
I'll never forget how he told me what they did to her. It haunts me to this day.
Now, someone tell me he won't get out and kill me. plz


I doubt they will let him out. A lot of these people come up for parole hearing because that is the law. It's like the law reviewing the case. But they do not let them out that I know of. John Lennon's murdered comes up for parole too from time to time and they never let him out. One of the things his family and friends does is write up letters saying they still feel his a danger to them and others. You might can have letters submitted from you and others who are afraid and express how you all feel in your letters. Submitting those would help. If you have a lawyer talk to him or her about it also.

Any chance the fish mural was temporary?

Maybe it was used specifically to block the window so people couldn't easily see in through it. Since this was planned, it could have been used for the purpose of abducting a woman and lessening the chances of what was happening inside the truck being seen by witnesses. (I'm thinking of the Lisa Ziegert segment where the camera angle is the witness's viewpoint and it shows her fighting in the back of vehicle with a big window.) Then the decal could be thrown away soon afterwards, also changing the look of the suspect vehicle.

Back then, were those window decals like cling film type stuff that come off easily or were they more like bumper stickers, glued on, and a pain to remove?

I always figured the fish decal was something that could have easily been peeled off.

She has not been found yet. I don't feel that McDuff did it. I don't feel there is enough evidence linking it to him. She was working there at the time and I'm sure there's been times that we all thought something was a little odd, but didn't jump in our cars and run away.
I don't feel like he did it either. It's just a hunch. Some of the facts that bother me are that she was 4 months pregnant, and that the baby wasn't her current boyfriend's. I really don't know what to make of the story of the truck and man. It could be made up. I'm just speculating, not declaring it as fact, but there just is something more to this than LE has released, I know there is. I think it has something to do with her pregnancy. Now, the story with the filthy man in the pick up could be true, it could be a hitman. Just saying, I'm keeping all possibilities open in my mind. Anyone know anything about the baby's father?

I don't feel like he did it either. It's just a hunch. Some of the facts that bother me are that she was 4 months pregnant, and that the baby wasn't her current boyfriend's. I really don't know what to make of the story of the truck and man. It could be made up. I'm just speculating, not declaring it as fact, but there just is something more to this than LE has released, I know there is. I think it has something to do with her pregnancy. Now, the story with the filthy man in the pick up could be true, it could be a hitman. Just saying, I'm keeping all possibilities open in my mind. Anyone know anything about the baby's father?

Facts: the baby wasn't her current boyfriends????

Are you sure? I thought Rob acknowledged the baby was his and he and Angela were engaged.

I went to the Charley Project page hoping to get more info on the question I posted above. There's nothing about that, but I noticed this and thought it was weird.

Charley Project says that Angela described the man driving the truck as a "filthy, bearded man" and witnesses who saw the man in the truck around the time Angela went missing said that he was wearing "eyeglasses" and had "a beard and a mustache".

It then directs us to the composite sketch included at the bottom of the page. What the heck? It's a sketch of a long haired guy with no glasses, no beard, and no mustache.


http://www.charleyproject.org/images/h/hammond_angela_suspect.jpg

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/hammond_angela.html

Facts: the baby wasn't her current boyfriends????

Are you sure? I thought Rob acknowledged the baby was his and he and Angela were engaged.

I've seen both, depending on where you look, so it's impossible to be sure without LE telling us...It's tough also because people watch Unsolved Mysteries and believe that's the exact way everything went...THen in regards to witnesses, I've seen places say there were none, some say there were witnesses who saw a truck, etc...Again, impossible to know unless LE comes out and tells us...

I'm trying to find details and am going back through the thread. On page six, someone posted two newspaper articles from The Kansas City Star. The articles were printed in the paper at the time Angela went missing. In one of those articles, it says her ex boyfriend, Bill, and Rob were both polygraphed and interviewed.

Angela went missing April 4, 1991. She had broken up with the other boyfriend in 1990. She was 4 months pregnant at the time she went missing.

For the baby to have been the ex boyfriend's (also assuming they were no longer sleeping together after the breakup sometime in 1990) she would have gotten pregnant sometime around early December 1990 and broken up with the boyfriend while less than four weeks pregnant, also some time in December, for the time frame of "baby was the ex boyfriend's" and "they broke up last year" to work. BTW, back then 3-4 weeks was about the earliest a woman could determine pregnancy with a home pregnancy test.

Here are the articles:

The Kansas City Star

April 7, 1991

Clinton woman is kidnapped Boyfriend hears her screams.Link to other abductions suspected.

Author: JOE LAMBE; Staff Writer
Edition: METROPOLITAN
Section: NATIONAL/WORLD
Page: A1

Before she disappeared late Thursday, Angela M. Hammond got off work and called her boyfriend from a pay telephone in an empty supermarket parking lot in Clinton, Mo.

As she spoke, the 20-year-old woman noticed an old green pickup circling the lot. Suspicious, she described the truck over the phone. The truck stopped, and she told her boyfriend of the man who got out - a white man with glasses, a mustache and a beard.

Then she screamed, said her boyfriend, Rob Shafer of Clinton. The phone went dead.

Shafer, 18, said in an interview Saturday that after Hammond screamed he jumped into his car and raced to the Food Barn parking lot, about 11 p.m. Thursday.

He passed what he thought was a yellow truck. Then he heard Hammond scream again.

"When she screamed at me out the window," he said, "I put it in reverse and started chasing him. " Shafer chased the truck about a mile, he said, racing south on Clinton's 2nd Street, then turning west on Culvert Drive.

But his car's transmission failed, Shafer said, and the pickup - maybe a 1969 or 1970 Ford - sped away. The truck may have had a decal of a water scene on the back window.

Hammond has not been seen since. Police found her car in the parking lot that night, said Clinton Detective Damon Parsons. The FBI and Henry County Sheriff also are investigating.

Authorities believe Hammond's abduction could be related to kidnappings in January and February of women in Camden County, Mo., and Nevada, Mo.

One of the women, Trudy Darby, 42, was abducted in January from a convenience store near Macks Creek in Camden County, where she worked as a clerk. Shortly before she disappeared, about 10 p.m. Jan. 19, she called her son from work telling him about a suspicious man outside the store.

When her son arrived five minutes later, he found only his mother's purse and an empty cash drawer, police said. Authorities found Darby's nude body two days later in the Little Niangua River. She had been shot twice in the head with a shotgun.

The other woman, also a convenience store clerk, disappeared Feb. 27, right after closing up for the night about 10 p.m. Police said the woman, Cheryl Ann Kenney, 30, has never been found. Her car was discovered the next morning outside the Nevada convenience store.

Hammond worked tallying evening accounts at a Clinton bank. Max Geiman, special agent for the FBI in Kansas City, said there was no solid evidence linking the three abductions, but police were examining possible connections. "This is extremely suspicous," he said.

Police searched the area by air Saturday but found nothing, Parsons said. Angela's parents, Kathy and Chris Hammond of Olathe, said Saturday that all they can do now is wait and worry. Kathy Hammond has been passing out her stepdaughter's picture to newspapers and television stations, hoping for a breakthrough.

******************************************************
The Kansas City Star

April 11, 1991

FBI questions teens about missing woman Lie-detector tests are given to her fiance and former boyfriend.

Author: LANE BEAUCHAMP; Springfield Correspondent
Edition: MID-AMERICA
Section: MID-AMERICA
Page: C1

The fiance and a former boyfriend of a missing Clinton, Mo., woman were given lie-detector tests Wednesday, but investigators refused to comment on the results.

The two teen-agers said they were questioned about whether they were involved in the disappearance of 20-year-old Angela M. Hammond, who apparently was abducted a week ago from a Clinton supermarket parking lot.

"I guess they were just trying to clear us as suspects," said Bill Barker, the 17-year-old former boyfriend of Hammond, in a telephone interview. "They were asking why we would do something like this to her."

Hammond's fiance, Rob Shafer, said FBI agents administering the tests implied that he and Barker might have been involved.

"They don't think my story's very good," Shafer, 18, said by phone. "I told them everything I know."

Clinton police Detective Damon Parsons, who is heading the investigation, and FBI spokesman Max Geiman declined to discuss the polygraph tests. Both men said investigators continued to follow up on leads but had not made any substantial progress Wednesday.

Parsons said that while "everyone is a suspect," Shafer and Barker were questioned as "primary witnesses." Barker said he was questioned for about three hours Wednesday afternoon; Shafer said he spent about five hours with FBI agents.

"I think they're barking up the wrong tree here," Shafer said. "They need to focus on who really did this and not on people who didn't."

Hammond, who is four months pregnant, disappeared last Thursday from a parking lot telephone booth at a Clinton supermarket. Shafer has said he and Hammond were talking about a suspicious man nearby when he heard her scream and the phone line went dead.

Shafer said he jumped in his truck and was rushing toward the parking lot, a few blocks from his home, when he heard Hammond yell his name from a passing pickup. Shafer said he tried to follow the truck but could not catch it before his truck's transmission gave out.

Parsons said Shafer was given a ride to the police station and arrived about midnight. Hammond was last seen by friends about 11:15 p.m. Thursday. She apparently stopped at the phone booth because she did not have a telephone.

Shafer and Barker said they have been out looking for Hammond every day since she disappeared.

"We haven't found anything yet," said Barker, who has continued his friendship with Hammond since they stopped dating late last year. "In a way that could be good. We just don't know."

Hammond was described as 5 feet tall, 140 pounds, with light brown hair and brown eyes. She was last seen wearing a white shirt with black spots, black slacks and tennis shoes. The truck was described as a green, late 1960s model Ford with a water or fish scene in the back window.

Sorry for hogging the thread.....

I'm going through all the articles back on page 6 here. They span about a year.

I noticed that the article written on April 7th 1991 and the one written on April 13, 1991 (both in the same newspaper but by different authors) screwed up on at least one fact in Trudy Darby's case.

Officials are trying to connect Trudy Darby, Cheryl Kenney, and Angela Hammond, but they need similarities in the crimes to do so, such as the perp's MO. And fwiw the suspect in Trudy's case is described the same as the guy in Angela's case but the vehicles are different.

Anyway, one article says Trudy Darby was shot twice in the head with a shotgun and the other article says it was an automatic pistol (and from what I understand, automatic guns are illegal, so did the author mean a semi automatic? or was the killer using a machine pistol, or what?).

I know it doesn't mean a whole lot, since the result is still that the killer murdered her, but it does show how a pretty big fact can get screwed up in the press, then published as truth, and here we all are 20+ years later trying to use that flawed information to connect cases.

Also, FWIW, the first article I copied above says that Angela (who worked in a bank) got off work and went to the pay phone to call Rob. Got off work at a small town bank at 11pm? And what about the UM scenario of them being at a barbecue together and her visiting with a friend before calling Rob and heading home?

ETA: Still reading. An article dated April 9, 1991 says Angela usually worked nights at a bank, but didn't work that night. Here's the quote:

Ms. Hammond usually worked nights at a Clinton bank but did not work the night she disappeared. Ms. Hammond's best friend, Kyla Engeman, said she and Ms. Hammond had been cruising the town square when they split up about 11:15 p.m. Ms. Hammond, who did not have a telephone, stopped by the parking lot booth to call Shafer. Shafer said they talked for about 30 minutes.

It's been 23 years now since Angela was kidnapped and probably murdered.

Let's hope this case gets solved someday...:(

Back on page 14, a one time poster asked if Tommy Lynn Sells could be responsible for Angela's abduction and maybe some of the other cases in MO. It was discussed that he probably was not involved due to the fact that he preferred to enter homes, either as an acquaintance or a burglar, but there's at least one case where he abducted a person from a public place, nine year old Mary Bea Perez, who was at a carnival with her grandmother.

Some of his crimes: http://serialkillers.briancombs.net/2479/victims-of-tommy-lynn-sells/

Here's the same info I posted in anther thread regarding this case:

Was he ever considered in Angela Hammond's disappearance? He committed crimes in Missouri in 1983, 1985, 1997, and 1998 in St. Louis, Forsyth, Springfield, and Portageville. He lived in St. Louis MO, Frisbee MO, and Holcomb MO.

He traveled with carnivals, rode trains, stole cars, and hitch hiked around the country.

He was released from a Wyoming prison in January 1991. From there, he went to Colorado, Florida, South Carolina, and ended up in West Virginia in April 1992. Angela Hammond was abducted in Clinton, MO on April 4, 1991. Traveling from Colorado to Florida could have easily taken him through that part of Missouri. Sells would have been 27 years old at the time.

His preferred victims were girls and petite women. At one point he owned a pick up truck which friends bought from him sometime in the late 90s because they felt sorry for him. At another time prior to that, he stole a truck to sell its tires to friends who needed truck tires. So he can be connected to pick up trucks, I just don't know what kind. He also worked at a used car lot, IIRC.

He has some things in common with Angela's case. She described a filthy bearded man, she and Rob described a pick up truck, the crime happened in MO, and Angela was a very petite young woman.

Not sure what date this mug shot was taken:

http://murderpedia.org/male.S/images/sells_tommy_lynn/sells_002.jpg

This is what he looked like in 1999:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/photos/serial_killers/predators/tommy_sells/3-1-Tommy-Lynn-Sells.jpg

Back on page 14, a one time poster asked if Tommy Lynn Sells could be responsible for Angela's abduction and maybe some of the other cases in MO. It was discussed that he probably was not involved due to the fact that he preferred to enter homes, either as an acquaintance or a burglar, but there's at least one case where he abducted a person from a public place, nine year old Mary Bea Perez, who was at a carnival with her grandmother.

Some of his crimes: http://serialkillers.briancombs.net/2479/victims-of-tommy-lynn-sells/

Here's the same info I posted in anther thread regarding this case:

Was he ever considered in Angela Hammond's disappearance? He committed crimes in Missouri in 1983, 1985, 1997, and 1998 in St. Louis, Forsyth, Springfield, and Portageville. He lived in St. Louis MO, Frisbee MO, and Holcomb MO.

He traveled with carnivals, rode trains, stole cars, and hitch hiked around the country.

He was released from a Wyoming prison in January 1991. From there, he went to Colorado, Florida, South Carolina, and ended up in West Virginia in April 1992. Angela Hammond was abducted in Clinton, MO on April 4, 1991. Traveling from Colorado to Florida could have easily taken him through that part of Missouri. Sells would have been 27 years old at the time.

His preferred victims were girls and petite women. At one point he owned a pick up truck which friends bought from him sometime in the late 90s because they felt sorry for him. At another time prior to that, he stole a truck to sell its tires to friends who needed truck tires. So he can be connected to pick up trucks, I just don't know what kind. He also worked at a used car lot, IIRC.

He has some things in common with Angela's case. She described a filthy bearded man, she and Rob described a pick up truck, the crime happened in MO, and Angela was a very petite young woman.

Not sure what date this mug shot was taken:

http://murderpedia.org/male.S/images/sells_tommy_lynn/sells_002.jpg

This is what he looked like in 1999:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/photos/serial_killers/predators/tommy_sells/3-1-Tommy-Lynn-Sells.jpg


I think it is a very strong possibility that this is Angela Hammond's Killer. He most likely killed her that very night. The body is buried somewhere, since it is a rural town in MO Angie could have been buried anywhere. The pick-up must have had tools (most disturbing of all) he could have dismembered her body and put it in trash bags and buried deep. But it could be found one day, it just needs more people pushing to find her, Wendy Camp, her daughter and sister in-law bodies was found last year, so it isn't unlikely that she is buried out there but they just haven't looked in the right spot yet, but one day she is gonna be found. Hopefully.

I live near Kansas City (tho from Boston) and went on a Missouri disappeared tour a couple of summers ago. Went to Clinton and Nevada (pronounced Ne-vay-da by the locals), MO where the lady disappeared from the convenience store and the house where the Springfield Three disappeared from. All three locations are on main streets or only a block away from one. At one time Kenneth MacDuff, a Texas serial killer executed in 1998. MacDuff was on death row for three murders when he was unbelievably paroled in 1989. Afterwards he killed at least 3 more times. Ithink the latter crimes were on UM and AMW, particularly someone he killed at a carwash. He was caught in KC in 1992 and supposedly said "there are a few bodies in the Mark Twain Forest [Missouri] that will never be found." While MacDuff mostly killed around Austin, he was known to have driven around aimlessly throughout the Midwest. Nothing I have read pins down his whereabouts during the MO disappearances.

Ithink the latter crimes were on UM and AMW, particularly someone he killed at a carwash.

Yeah, I saw the carwash one on UM.

Yeah, I saw the carwash one on UM.

Of course, that is the Colleen Reed abduction case, which was also featured on America's Most Wanted.

I am sorry if this has been mentioned, but why did Angela stop at a payphone in the middle of the night to call Rob? It couldnt have waited until she got home? :confused:

I am sorry if this has been mentioned, but why did Angela stop at a payphone in the middle of the night to call Rob? It couldnt have waited until she got home? :confused:

she didn't have a phone

plus, teen love

Every time this thread gets bumped I click just to see if it's another "Rob did it" post.

Every time this thread gets bumped I click just to see if it's another "Rob did it" post.


I know what you mean. The worst I ever saw on here was a person (don't recall who but it has been a few years) who speculated that Rob was upset about the pregnancy. Rob then followed Angela and donned a disguise of a filthy, grubby man and then abducted and killed Angela. Furthermore, folks were upset that Rob married somebody else years later (you have to move on at some point).

I think it is a very strong possibility that this is Angela Hammond's Killer. He most likely killed her that very night. The body is buried somewhere, since it is a rural town in MO Angie could have been buried anywhere. The pick-up must have had tools (most disturbing of all) he could have dismembered her body and put it in trash bags and buried deep. But it could be found one day, it just needs more people pushing to find her, Wendy Camp, her daughter and sister in-law bodies was found last year, so it isn't unlikely that she is buried out there but they just haven't looked in the right spot yet, but one day she is gonna be found. Hopefully.


It is quite possible. Marvin Chaney still looks rough from his mugshot. I can easily see him appearing disheveled in 1991

http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/File:Marvin_chaney.jpg

Every time this thread gets bumped I click just to see if it's another "Rob did it" post.


I wish I could record a gif of me crying, "Leave Rob alone!"😫😫😫😫

Furthermore, folks were upset that Rob married somebody else years later (you have to move on at some point).

years later is pretty ridiculous. If anything that may point more towards his innocence that it was several years before he married someone else. I've seen stories about guys who married someone else when their dead spouse wasn't even cold yet.

I wish I could record a gif of me crying, "Leave Rob alone!"😫😫😫😫

:lol:

It is weird that I ALWAYS think "what if Robs car didn't give out!?!" He might've been able to chase that guy down and save her. I think the perpetrator might've gotten scared if he kept up the chase and just let her go. Anyways, that thought has always crossed my mind about this case. Obviously, its not robs fault but I can only imagine how many times this thought went through his head over the years.

It is weird that I ALWAYS think "what if Robs car didn't give out!?!" He might've been able to chase that guy down and save her. I think the perpetrator might've gotten scared if he kept up the chase and just let her go. Anyways, that thought has always crossed my mind about this case. Obviously, its not robs fault but I can only imagine how many times this thought went through his head over the years.

During his UM interview, it was painstakingly clear that this thought crossed his mind very day, if not every hour.

I am glad to hear he was able to move on. He shouldn't have to eternally suffer for what happened to Angela. He did everything he could have to prevent it.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/58079808.jpg

I seriously doubt the man can put his car in drive without thinking about it.


He was so beautifully in love with Angela.

I've been reading this thread from the beginning and several people thought it was hard to believe that the abductor could drive and hold onto Angela. I don't think this is so difficult to believe for several reasons:
1) He may have carried a weapon and threatened to kill her if she fought
2) He may have struck Angela, perhaps even multiple times, and stunned her when first getting her into the truck.
3) Angela was very petite, four months pregnant, and even if she had been clawing away like in the reenactment, this man was described as tall and much bigger.

Rob doesn't mention if he saw Angela fighting and he didn't mention seeing her (at least I don't think so). But he did hear her scream his name, so she was likely sitting upright so she could see his car approaching. It seems like she took a huge risk screaming out to him, as she could have been threatened. If she told the abductor she was pregnant (as she may not have been showing) in an attempt to save herself, he could have threatened both her and the baby.

I've always thought Rob was innocent. Not only for his heartbreaking interview and convincing story, but also because he had a very short time to commit this crime. How could he have done it and hidden her body so well she's never been found? I don't buy it.

I had forgotten that she screamed his name.

I find this oddly comforting, that even in the last moments of her life, she knew Rob was trying to save her.

I had forgotten that she screamed his name.

I find this oddly comforting, that even in the last moments of her life, she knew Rob was trying to save her.
Yes, this is why Rob turned around so swiftly (and damaged the transmission) because she called to him from the truck. I find it a little comforting, too, that she knew he was trying to help her.

It is weird that I ALWAYS think "what if Robs car didn't give out!?!" He might've been able to chase that guy down and save her. I think the perpetrator might've gotten scared if he kept up the chase and just let her go. Anyways, that thought has always crossed my mind about this case. Obviously, its not robs fault but I can only imagine how many times this thought went through his head over the years.

There is no way of knowing what would have happened. Its tempting to believe Rob could have made a heroic rescue, but its just as possible he could have been killed too. As far as I know the broadcast nor any other source said Rob had any weapons, and there is a fairly good chance the abductor did.

So its easy to look at the car tearing up as tragic, but for all we know it might have actually saved Rob's life. Rob may have chased this guy and Angela down and the scumbag might have shot him. No way to tell for sure.

We can only hope that Angela's death was not to painful and that her abductor is either dead or incarcerated for another crime. I think there is a strong possibility it was Larry Hall.

I've always thought that if Rob's car never gave out, the abductor would have eventually gave up and threw Angie from the car before booking out of the area.

I've always thought that if Rob's car never gave out, the abductor would have eventually gave up and threw Angie from the car before booking out of the area.

Hey, unlike Tim McClure... something we AGREE on! ;)

I feel the same way. There's always a chance that Rob could have been hurt, but I think the chances are greater of the killer getting spooked and throwing Angie out of the truck.

Hey, unlike Tim McClure... something we AGREE on! ;)

I feel the same way. There's always a chance that Rob could have been hurt, but I think the chances are greater of the killer getting spooked and throwing Angie out of the truck.

What if...McClure was the abductor!? :eek:

Isn't it possible this was just a chancer who saw a young female at an isolated spot & decided to chance his arm & abduct an easy target?

The strangest thing is that he would abduct her while she wae on the phone-for all he knew she could have been sppoked by him & describing him & the vehicle details to whoever was on the line while he was doing his searching in his vehicle routine.

What if...McClure was the abductor!? :eek:


I'm making Keanu face right now.

This is the most heartbreaking case I've ever seen. Especially because if that DAMN car transmission didn't die, she may very well be alive today. God, does that case get to me personally. I can't even imagine that boyfriends' frustration.

This is my one wish to God that he would just help solve this case. Oh hell, even a psychic I'd listen to.

This case is so depressing but every time I see her name mentioned I think of the idea for the Angela Hammond phonebooth playset in the UM Action Figures thread.

I know that technology and the media are FAR more advanced now than they were back then but I have always found it hard to believe that a truck with a distinguishing characteristic (fish logo) was never seen or heard from again. Sure, the owner could have easily gotten rid of the logo, but wouldn't SOMEONE have noticed seeing that vehicle prior to this crime? I know that whenever I see something goofy like that on a vehicle, it sticks out to me.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but, there wasn't ever a record of a vehicle matching this description as being stolen, was there? I bring this up for two reason. The first is, if it was indeed stolen, I'd be curious to know if it was ever found. Secondly, one of the more popular people tied to this case is Kenneth McDuff. He stole vehicles when committing crimes so if he was the perpetrator of this crime, he would have likely stolen this vehicle, thus a report must be out there somewhere.

I know that technology and the media are FAR more advanced now than they were back then but I have always found it hard to believe that a truck with a distinguishing characteristic (fish logo) was never seen or heard from again. Sure, the owner could have easily gotten rid of the logo, but wouldn't SOMEONE have noticed seeing that vehicle prior to this crime? I know that whenever I see something goofy like that on a vehicle, it sticks out to me.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but, there wasn't ever a record of a vehicle matching this description as being stolen, was there? I bring this up for two reason. The first is, if it was indeed stolen, I'd be curious to know if it was ever found. Secondly, one of the more popular people tied to this case is Kenneth McDuff. He stole vehicles when committing crimes so if he was the perpetrator of this crime, he would have likely stolen this vehicle, thus a report must be out there somewhere.

Welcome back!

You bring up some excellent points.

Somebody would have noticed the fish decal, the dirty truck, the unkempt man driving the truck, etc. at some point. I find it odd that there were no reported sightings of this truck or the man since Angela's abduction. But if the guy ditched the truck (in a body of water, buried it, etc.), or had it crushed at a junkyard or something, that would be the only way I could see why there were no sightings of it since. And I feel like if the truck was stolen, this would increase the likelihood of the guy getting caught, so I doubt he would use one during the abduction.

Welcome back!

You bring up some excellent points.

Somebody would have noticed the fish decal, the dirty truck, the unkempt man driving the truck, etc. at some point. I find it odd that there were no reported sightings of this truck or the man since Angela's abduction. But if the guy ditched the truck (in a body of water, buried it, etc.), or had it crushed at a junkyard or something, that would be the only way I could see why there were no sightings of it since. And I feel like if the truck was stolen, this would increase the likelihood of the guy getting caught, so I doubt he would use one during the abduction.

Thanks bro. Been a long two years. Congrats on the baby!

Yea, my guess is that the truck was demolished due to Angela's boyfriend having seen it. Which leads me to believe that whoever owned the vehicle, killed Angela. Why go to lengths to destroy or conceal a vehicle that isn't yours? Even then though, unless the guy lived out in the middle of nowhere, it seems logical to expect at least a handful of people to have seen and noticed it at some point.

Thanks bro. Been a long two years. Congrats on the baby!

Thank you.

Yea, my guess is that the truck was demolished due to Angela's boyfriend having seen it. Which leads me to believe that whoever owned the vehicle, killed Angela. Why go to lengths to destroy or conceal a vehicle that isn't yours? Even then though, unless the guy lived out in the middle of nowhere, it seems logical to expect at least a handful of people to have seen and noticed it at some point.


I always assumed that the decal was a removable one and if the vehicle was not destroyed shortly after Angela was kidnapped, it was removed, repainted, and sold.

On the other hand, it would be pretty easy to ditch a vehicle in a body of water. We're seeing all sorts of vehicles that are being "found" after being lost for several years recently. And let's not forget Dale Wayne Eaton, who buried Lisa Kimmel's car on his property.

I also suspect she was a victim of Kenneth McDuff. Not Rob. McDuff. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: You make a good point about lack of a police report though. If the vehicle was stolen, why wasn't it reported?

I also suspect she was a victim of Kenneth McDuff. Not Rob. McDuff.

Maybe we are not looking close enough at Rob.

He did say he "didn't get the job done" on UM.

Something sinister in those comments, Mr. Shafer?

:p

Given McDuff's penchant for abducting women who happened to be alone, I really have to wonder if it could have been him. He chose very secluded hiding spots when burying his victims and fessed up before execution to several locations, including the body of Colleen Reed. Honestly, I can't even watch that segment anymore after learning what he and his accomplice did to her. It makes me sick to my stomach to think about. I couldn't stop thinking about it for over a week after watching the American Justice segment.

McDuff, besides being a horrible person and killer, was also an arrogant arsehole. Watch interviews with him and he will deny his guilt and try to be like an innocent, falsely accused man. He does lay on the schmooze well enough that any not acquainted to the cases he's connected to may well believe him. This is why I think there are likely many more victims that we don't know about. He wasn't officially pointed out as a possible suspect, so he never said. He fought never to confess or reveal. If Angela or any others killed by him are out there undiscovered, we'll likely never know.

I certainly find him a more likely suspect than Rob.

Given McDuff's penchant for abducting women who happened to be alone, I really have to wonder if it could have been him. He chose very secluded hiding spots when burying his victims and fessed up before execution to several locations, including the body of Colleen Reed. Honestly, I can't even watch that segment anymore after learning what he and his accomplice did to her. It makes me sick to my stomach to think about. I couldn't stop thinking about it for over a week after watching the American Justice segment.

McDuff, besides being a horrible person and killer, was also an arrogant arsehole. Watch interviews with him and he will deny his guilt and try to be like an innocent, falsely accused man. He does lay on the schmooze well enough that any not acquainted to the cases he's connected to may well believe him. This is why I think there are likely many more victims that we don't know about. He wasn't officially pointed out as a possible suspect, so he never said. He fought never to confess or reveal. If Angela or any others killed by him are out there undiscovered, we'll likely never know.

I certainly find him a more likely suspect than Rob.

and to think the state of texas let the man out of jail......I wonder how many victims are out there? I don't understand these beasts.....I really hope shows like UM continue to help communities fight back.

I always assumed that the decal was a removable one and if the vehicle was not destroyed shortly after Angela was kidnapped, it was removed, repainted, and sold.


That's a good possibility. The fish decal was a bit unusual, but banged up trucks in small town Missouri certainly aren't. Having a couple of old junkers rusting on a backyard or in a shed isn't either.

Someone on a topix (http://www.topix.com/forum/city/clinton-mo/TJNKK7HQB5IL59K4F)thread about Angela's disappearance mentioned that a local man with a truck similar to the description was checked out by police. Another person (post #11) claims that they sent in a tip about a local individual to UM. I don't believe Rob was involved, other witnesses saw the truck and the man, but it's understandable that the statements of the boyfriend of a missing pregnant woman would be looked into. Both McDuff and Larry Hall committed similar crimes, but I think that it's more likely that someone who was from the area, who knew the roads, was involved. I'd like to know if the area where Angela was last seen was the local teen hangout spot, and if Angela had previously been seen there (supposedly Angela's family didn't have a landline phone).

Is the angela Hammond segment on any of the DVDs or did they show it. During thee farina episodes.

Is the angela Hammond segment on any of the DVDs or did they show it. During thee farina episodes.
No it's not and Tjey showed it with fArina

I am still on page 21. I'll never read all 66. I think Rob is innocent. I think the fish mural could be anything. A business decal or not even a fish. Although fish ones were popular in the south. I looked up her town and it said population 4, 4500...Unless it is the wrong one. I come from 750 and I can go sit and have my gas pumped and not know the person next to me (for those who say you know everyone) you can't know everyone. Not the ones deep down the gravel roads in the woods who hardly ever come out. They have like 56 homes in the deep woods by my home town. ONLY REASON I know this is when my grandpa ran for a local political position. He would go door to door and these people, not all, but most were registered to vote. The dude could have lived nearby. Also, he could have a bodyshop or removed the decal himself. I just think Rob is innocent. I have no proof, but the ones who say "you know everyone in a small town" You know the gas station owner, you know Ma's Grocer owner and your neighbor...not everyone! Know how you drive and you see the long and winding gravel road with no trepassing and chains....yeah.

Given McDuff's penchant for abducting women who happened to be alone, I really have to wonder if it could have been him. He chose very secluded hiding spots when burying his victims and fessed up before execution to several locations, including the body of Colleen Reed. Honestly, I can't even watch that segment anymore after learning what he and his accomplice did to her. It makes me sick to my stomach to think about. I couldn't stop thinking about it for over a week after watching the American Justice segment.

McDuff, besides being a horrible person and killer, was also an arrogant arsehole. Watch interviews with him and he will deny his guilt and try to be like an innocent, falsely accused man. He does lay on the schmooze well enough that any not acquainted to the cases he's connected to may well believe him. This is why I think there are likely many more victims that we don't know about. He wasn't officially pointed out as a possible suspect, so he never said. He fought never to confess or reveal. If Angela or any others killed by him are out there undiscovered, we'll likely never know.

I certainly find him a more likely suspect than Rob.

There are definitely a lot of factors that could point toward McDuff. The fact that she was a female and alone fits McDuff's MO. Also the fact that she was taken from a public place and thrown inside his vehicle. Most likely she was sexually assaulted, another McDuff factor. Finally, her body has never been recovered. They only found some of McDuff's other victims remains when he took the authorities to them.

You're right that McDuff always proclaimed innocence. However, at the end he did lead them to bodies of victims that they knew they could attribute to him. Seeing the way McDuff reacted to other things during the course of his arrest, prosecution and imprisonment, there's no way he was going to confess to a murder (Angela Hammond) that they couldn't tie him to.

I'm sure this has been asked before, but did McDuff look anything like the man that Angela described to Rob?

I'm sure this has been asked before, but did McDuff look anything like the man that Angela described to Rob?

I can't remember what the description was. It's been so long since I've seen this episode. I'm sure the McDuff angle was at least explored tepidly by local law enforcement. At least, I hope it was. The similarities are uncanny.

I can't remember what the description was. It's been so long since I've seen this episode. I'm sure the McDuff angle was at least explored tepidly by local law enforcement. At least, I hope it was. The similarities are uncanny.

Angela's description over the phone was that he was kind of dirty looking, with a mustache, beard, glasses and he was dressed in overalls.

It's been a long time since I've seen this segment, but I seem to remember that according to UM, Rob heard the assailant speak into the phone during the abduction. I thought it was reported that Hammond's abductor made a comment to Rob along the lines of, “I didn't need to use the phone anyway." I wonder if LE was able to collect any physical evidence of value from either of the payphones that the assailant handled. Or would the fact that it was collected from a public phone make this type of evidence meaningless?

It's been a long time since I've seen this segment, but I seem to remember that according to UM, Rob heard the assailant speak into the phone during the abduction. I thought it was reported that Hammond's abductor made a comment to Rob along the lines of, “I didn't need to use the phone anyway." I wonder if LE was able to collect any physical evidence of value from either of the payphones that the assailant handled. Or would the fact that it was collected from a public phone make this type of evidence meaningless?

Well, the abductor did say that, but it was directed at Angela, not at Rob. As to your question of if law enforcement could get anything from the phone as far as DNA or fingerprints, I doubt it. They were public phones and it would be hard to determine whose were the abductors and whose were just people using the phone.

I wonder if LE was able to collect any physical evidence of value from either of the payphones that the assailant handled.

Apparently some type of physical evidence was recovered (there is a KMBC segment on her case on the forbidden site) but as far as I know it's never been stated what kind of evidence it is, or where it is from. Her brother Loren made mention of it somewhere back on this thread.

Apparently some type of physical evidence was recovered (there is a KMBC segment on her case on the forbidden site) but as far as I know it's never been stated what kind of evidence it is, or where it is from. Her brother Loren made mention of it somewhere back on this thread.

If that's the case then you almost have to assume McDuff was ruled out as his DNA is in the system and this evidence would have been run through it and triggered on him if it was a match.

If that's the case then you almost have to assume McDuff was ruled out as his DNA is in the system and this evidence would have been run through it and triggered on him if it was a match.

I think that investigators back in 2009 were hoping to obtain a DNA profile from the reprocessed evidence, but I'm not certain if they were able to obtain DNA. If they did, likely they would be attempting to exclude Rush and Chaney (the men who killed Trudy Darby) as well.

I am wondering if the cases profiled during this segment were ever solved? The segment mentioned a few cases that happened in the surrounding cities in Missouri that authorities believed could possibly be related to Angela Hammonds abduction. Does anyone remember these women's name or if their cases were solved?

I am wondering if the cases profiled during this segment were ever solved? The segment mentioned a few cases that happened in the surrounding cities in Missouri that authorities believed could possibly be related to Angela Hammonds abduction. Does anyone remember these women's name or if their cases were solved?

Yes, the victims were both convenience store workers. One of them was named Trudy Darby and her murder was solved. She was killed by a pair of half-brothers, but authorities have pretty much ruled out any involvement in Angela's case. The other woman was named Cheryl Ann Kenney, but she was never been found and the case is still unsolved.

Yes, the victims were both convenience store workers. One of them was named Trudy Darby and her murder was solved. She was killed by a pair of half-brothers, but authorities have pretty much ruled out any involvement in Angela's case. The other woman was named Cheryl Ann Kenney, but she was never been found and the case is still unsolved.

Thanks Robin. It has been a while since I've seen the segment. Was Trudy's body discovered shortly after she was murdered or did it take a while to find her?

Thanks Robin. It has been a while since I've seen the segment. Was Trudy's body discovered shortly after she was murdered or did it take a while to find her?

Her body was found in a river bank 2 days after her abduction. She had been robbed, raped, and shot twice in the head.

If you have the stomach, here is the entire court/police report about Trudy and the hell she was put through before being shot.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/mo-court-of-appeals/1215526.html

Her body was found in a river bank 2 days after her abduction. She had been robbed, raped, and shot twice in the head.

If you have the stomach, here is the entire court/police report about Trudy and the hell she was put through before being shot.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/mo-court-of-appeals/1215526.html

Thanks man. Their MO isn't too far from the facts that we know about the Hammond disappearance. However, Angela only saw one person in the truck. Of course its possible that the other was elsewhere or maybe even not involved at all. This group seemed to stalk the nights looking for women alone.

They also expressed some knowledge of avoiding DNA and other types of forensic evidence as evident by his statement of "if the barn hadn't been burned down, they'd know what else we did and we'd be on death row".

I've been watching UM on Lifetime pretty religiously for the last month and haven't seen this case yet. Does anyone know if it recently ran. I know there were like 175 Farina episodes and I've probably only gone through 40 or so of them but was just curious.
This case scarred the bleep out of me as a kid so was looking forward to rewatching it 20 years later & since UM got yanked from YouTube the Lifetime airings are my only hope.

Found this video very interesting. Shows the phone booth and parking lot she was abducted from. "From the very beginning police investigating this case believed Hammond's disappearance was connected to the disappearance 2 other women. Tonight police have been able to rule out that possibility." Crazy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Hc9RhZe0ZA

Found this video very interesting. Shows the phone booth and parking lot she was abducted from. "From the very beginning police investigating this case believed Hammond's disappearance was connected to the disappearance 2 other women. Tonight police have been able to rule out that possibility." Crazy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Hc9RhZe0ZA

Six years ago & nothing has come of this so either it was a bluff to get a suspect to panic or a dead end. Would be interesting to know what DNA could have been found at the scene? Maybe she bit the guy & drew blood? There was obviously no time for a sexual assault if her fiance was quickly on his way to the scene & they went past him.

If they did have anything then either it wasn't good enough to use or this guy was never in the system & has kept his nose clean since you would think.

Some speculate that larry dewayne hall may have abducted her he has confessed to over 40 murders

That's why I'm never out late at night to many predators

That's why I'm never out late at night to many predators
Unfortunately, predators don't hibernate during the day and can strike at any given time.