I was just watching the Albert Leon Fletcher case and the Larry George case, and got to thinking about who was the most ruthless criminal UM ever profiled

ofcourse its easy to go with Richard Ramirez or Zodiac, but alot of the lesser known criminals were just as sick

I am curious why you named Albert Leon Fletcher? If you look in the archives of the St Petersburg Times, Tampa Tribune or Lakeland Ledger you will see his cousin Douglas Porter confessed that he was the shooter.
His cousin received two consecutive life sentences and they were overturned after he testified at the Fletcher trial that Albert Leon Fletcher was the shooter, even though witnesses came on the stand and said Porter had confessed.
The judge refused to allow the forensic evidence into the trial showing Fletcher had not handled the weapon that killed the man, yet another gun they had with them that night,.
Anyway the judge instructed the jury that it didn't matter who the shooter was and they were tried under Florida's Principal Law.
Fletcher got a life sentence, and his cousin gets out in 2015 after cutting after cutting a deal for his testimony.
Well if they were tried as principals and his cousin gets out in 2015, he should have the same sentence too shouldn't he under that law??
Its all in the papers I mentioned above, some show the archived articles free of charge.
Fletchers escape made fools of Polk County and Pascoe County and when he came back they threw the book at him. They even tried to give him the death penalty.
This case is interesting because so much evidence was not admitted into court, also the court appointed attorney Fletcher had for 18 months dropped his case right before trial, and the judge who sat on the case was her husband.
The attorneys he then got only met him the day of jury selection.
He has papers filed to try and get a new trial with Polk County due to the conflict of interest of the judge being married to his lawyer, and also the forensic evidence from the Florida Department Of Law Enforcement Crime Lab that was not admitted is considered "newly discovered evidence" and grounds for a new trial. The gun with his cousins fingerprints and his cousin had gunpowder from handling has the victims blood splatter on it.

the person who killed all those dogs was just as bad

Three Words: Edward. Harold. Bell.

It's hard to pick THE most menacing people on UM, but I always thought one guy was pretty nuts.
He was a guy in his 40s who married a young girl with whom he worked. Can't remember what he and his family were arguing about, but at one point he threatened to kill someone. His little daughter said, "you wouldn't kill me, daddy," and he got right in her face and said, "yeah, I'd kill you too!"
He was allegedly seen visiting the grave of the wife he was accused of killing.

It's hard to pick THE most menacing people on UM, but I always thought one guy was pretty nuts.
He was a guy in his 40s who married a young girl with whom he worked. Can't remember what he and his family were arguing about, but at one point he threatened to kill someone. His little daughter said, "you wouldn't kill me, daddy," and he got right in her face and said, "yeah, I'd kill you too!"
He was allegedly seen visiting the grave of the wife he was accused of killing.

Jim Burnside. Evil, evil man. Thank GOD he is behind bars where he belongs.

Did James Burnside get the death penalty?

He had some nerve telling his daughter that, he's an example of a person that doesn't deserve to have children. Period. :mad:

And Edward Harold Bell is exactly where he SHOULD be. I can't imagine the relief that Larry's sister and mother felt having to watch that pervert/murderer being escorted by the authorities.

Did James Burnside get the death penalty?

It looks to me that he got life in prison, instead of the death penalty, although someone living in Florida (where Burnside butchered his wife in 1988) is most likely to know the actual outcome. I found two links related to Florida's death row.

One lists current death row inmates:

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/activeinmates/deathrowroster.asp


Another lists Florida executions:

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/deathrow/execlist.html

Jim Burnside is not on either list.

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/ActiveInmates/detail.asp?Bookmark=2&From=list&SessionID=860362896

Three Words: Edward. Harold. Bell.

You read my mind lol

Did James Burnside get the death penalty?
No, but at least he's behind bars for the rest of his life.
http://www.dc.state.fl.us/ActiveInmates/detail.asp?Bookmark=1&From=list&SessionID=159105489

No, but at least he's behind bars for the rest of his life.
http://www.dc.state.fl.us/ActiveInmates/detail.asp?Bookmark=1&From=list&SessionID=159105489

Wrong guy, dude.

This is who we're looking for:

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/ActiveInmates/detail.asp?Bookmark=2&From=list&SessionID=159218602

What the hell? I could have sworn I put up the link to the right page. My browser never even opened the link I provided, but somehow when I copied and pasted, it pasted the wrong link. Strange.

Next time I'll check the links before I post them. Thanks for the correction.

Blind River rest stop killer and "Debby's" attacker.

No question, Edward H. Bell.

The Connecticut River Valley Killer and Edward Wayne Beverly, Ethel Kidd's murderer. Methodical, cold-hearted and creepy.

The Connecticut River Valley Killer and Edward Wayne Beverly, Ethel Kidd's murderer. Methodical, cold-hearted and creepy.

And idiot, if you think about it. He chose a victim residing close to him home (he was a neighbor) and left vital clues on the yard.

I would go also with Oba Chandler for a ruthless killer.

Harold Eugene Floyd or whatever his name was, the pervert who kidnapped a little girl and raised her as his own, molesting her for years. He then kidnapped and caused the disappearance of the son he claimed to have had with her. I just remember that picture of her as a little girl and how sad her eyes looked. Heartbreaking!

Harold Eugene Floyd or whatever his name was, the pervert who kidnapped a little girl and raised her as his own, molesting her for years. He then kidnapped and caused the disappearance of the son he claimed to have had with her. I just remember that picture of her as a little girl and how sad her eyes looked. Heartbreaking!
Franklin Delano Floyd is very scummy.

Franklin Delano Floyd is very scummy.

Yup, there are more details available on Suzanne Davis' case on doenetwork.org (case #8UFOK). (For some reason, when I browse on doenetwork, the complete url link does not show-up in my browser, so I can't copy and paste a link that will lead you directly on the case).

But I have to warn everyone, there's some information on there that will make your skin crawl.

This is probably the most contrived, complex case showcased on UM. Franklin is one sick, twisted (insert expletive of choice here ... I think they all apply in Frank's case). :mad:

Franklin Delano Floyd is very scummy.

Thanks for providing the scumbag's actual name! I was so outraged at the details of the case that, ugh, it's even hard to type just how sick the perv is! And poor "Suzanne" still being unidentified after so many years....:(

Thanks for providing the scumbag's actual name! I was so outraged at the details of the case that, ugh, it's even hard to type just how sick the perv is! And poor "Suzanne" still being unidentified after so many years....:(

What is sickening to me is that Floyd is still alive and yet refuses to tell anyone who "Sharon" really is so her family can be notified. :mad: If anyone is interested there is an excellent book about Suzanne's story that shows what a truly exceptional person she was despite her horrible upbringing. Here is a link:

http://www.amazon.com/Beautiful-Child-Matt-Birkbeck/dp/042519650X

I'm very amazed that they never found out whose girl that was. I'm thinking maybe her mother and she didn't have any family or friends (the mother was possibly a prostitute and/or homeless person that is hard to track) and Floyd took advantage of that by killing the mother, then taking the girl for his own.
That's the only plausible way that a girl would be taken in the US or Canada and not be detected or missed enough to have her be indentified by any family members or friends of her mother. Or the mother was estranged from her family and had the daughter without her family's knowledge. Then she was either kidnapped and the mother killed or sold by the mother to Floyd.

I just want to add these (in no particular order):


I-70 Killer
Son of Sam killers
Sacramento Convience Store Killer
Bowling Alley Killers
Mike Reimer or whoever killed Mike Reimer and the other people in the woods
Megan Curl's killer
Priests murderer
Whoever killed the Freemans and took off with Lauria Bible and Ashley Freeman
Richard Church
Mean looking transvestite that may have killed Beverly McGowan
The people in the military that are hanging their comrades and making it look like suicide like in the Billy Hargrove and Mike Carmichael cases
Joe Shepard


Also, speaking of Joe Shepard, does anyone remember which case featured a guy that raped a girl when out with friends that dumped off the friends, kidnapped the girl, raped her, then months later, killed her, then knocked off the friends that were witnesses to the initial kidnapping and rape? I think he killed the girl and the girl's baby by bounding them, putting them into a duffel bag, then dumping them into a body of water while they were still alive.

Also, speaking of Joe Shepard, does anyone remember which case featured a guy that raped a girl when out with friends that dumped off the friends, kidnapped the girl, raped her, then months later, killed her, then knocked off the friends that were witnesses to the initial kidnapping and rape? I think he killed the girl and the girl's baby by bounding them, putting them into a duffel bag, then dumping them into a body of water while they were still alive.

Yes that was Marvin Gabrion. Easily one of the most evil people ever profiled on UM. The victim was Rachel Timmerman. Her body was eventually found but her baby is still missing (and presumed dead). Here is her page:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/v/verhage_shannon.html

there was this robinson fellow? I believe that was his last name. anyhow, he violently killed his wife, three sons, and mother. there was blood evidence and spatter around the entire house. and his only motive was that he didn't reveive an expected promotion at work the day prior. I can't remember that story to the exact detail, but I saw it recently. I don't believe he has been captured....anyone know?

there was this robinson fellow? I believe that was his last name. anyhow, he violently killed his wife, three sons, and mother. there was blood evidence and spatter around the entire house. and his only motive was that he didn't reveive an expected promotion at work the day prior. I can't remember that story to the exact detail, but I saw it recently. I don't believe he has been captured....anyone know?

This is the case of Brad Bishop. Yes, he killed his family after not getting a promotion at work. Aside, from a sighting in Europe, he has not been captured and is still on the run.

Yeah, that was weird how the guy knew him, saw him in Europe, and recognized him through the big beard and long hair.

This is the case of Brad Bishop. Yes, he killed his family after not getting a promotion at work. Aside, from a sighting in Europe, he has not been captured and is still on the run.
yes thank you. I don't know where I got robinson? oh well.

This is the case of Brad Bishop. Yes, he killed his family after not getting a promotion at work. Aside, from a sighting in Europe, he has not been captured and is still on the run.

IMHO, and it might not be popular, there are far more ruthless criminals covered by UM than Brad Bishop. His crime is a crime of passion from a heavy-stressed person that would have badly needed to talk to a psychologist. Yes, killing his whole family with a hammer is monstruous and deserves punishment. But to put him on par with Kenneth McDuff, Oba Chandler, Michael Nicholaou and that kind of slime? Here I disagree.

Even the UM segment itself treats Brad Bishop with some level of sympathy. The FBI agent pointed out that many, many people are capable of doing the same thing, and that Brad Bishop just exploded sooner. Even his colleague took the time to explain what Bishop had told him about his psychological stress and his mother and his wife tormenting him at home into believing he was a loser and a has-been.

To me it is a horrible crime committed by a sad, pathetic individual in bad need of psychological help, like Dennis Dupue and even Rick Church. Their crimes were in the heat of the moment, crimes of passion which, even if they are horrible and sometimes even gruesome, were committed by individuals in psychological distress. It is not the same as the likes of Kenneth McDuff, Elaine Parent, Marie Hilley or Oba Chandler, who were psychopaths whose ethics were lightyears away from the norms of society and who did not hesitate to commit murder for money, fraud, pleasure, or to eliminate witness.

You think taking out your family one by one in a cold calculated manner, then driving nearly 300 miles to incinerate their corpses isn't as despicable as other degrees of pre-meditated murder? I'd say that it is worse since he took out his own family in such a horrific manner just so he can start a new life. The guy buys the hammer and gasoline that morning, then massacres his whole family, loads all 5 of their bodies into the station wagon, buys a shovel that he dug the pit with, dumps the bodies in the pit to burn them, and then
drove the car out to Tennessee to abandon it. Just because he is like a tragic figure of the kind you would read about in an old Greek play doesn't mean he is not a scumbag of the highest degree.

You think taking out your family one by one in a cold calculated manner, then driving nearly 300 miles to incinerate their corpses isn't as despicable as other degrees of pre-meditated murder? I'd say that it is worse since he took out his own family in such a horrific manner just so he can start a new life. The guy buys the hammer and gasoline that morning, then massacres his whole family, loads all 5 of their bodies into the station wagon, buys a shovel that he dug the pit with, dumps the bodies in the pit to burn them, and then
drove the car out to Tennessee to abandon it. Just because he is like a tragic figure of the kind you would read about in an old Greek play doesn't mean he is not a scumbag of the highest degree.

I never said that the crime was not horrific. I only said that, despite it being despicable, it was nonetheless a crime of passion committed by a desperate individual. If Brad Bishop had instead gone see a psychologist or visit the hospital, none of this would have happened.

And to me crimes of passion, even as horrific and gruesome as they are, is not as despicable as recreational or interested kinds of murder, serial or otherwise. I do not put Brad Bishop in the same category as, say, Tom Johnson (who hammered a woman's head to death and almost killed her boyfriend to scam them and steal a computer).

Like I said, I do not expect this point of view to be popular, especially when the lives of children are taken in a crime. However, I think the reason behind the crime must be a factor is evaluating how "evil" a crime is. Brad Bishop might have been a scumbag, but he certainly wasn't a torture-murderer kind of scumbag.

Well he, like Tom Johnson planned the murders out and carried out his plan. It wasn't a crime of passion on a whim. He wanted his whole family to die and executed them all over the course of the evening. Killing them is such a gruesome way as with a hammer is completely cold-blooded.
He wasn't a torturer, but that doesn't make him any better than the other sub-human psychos and sociopaths. It seems like you are trying to mitigate the enormity of what the guy did to his family and are making excuses that he was stressed out and snapped. There are many people who snap that don't murder their whole family because of it. The guy gets absolutely no sympathy from me whatsoever. If they ever capture him and his defense tries to claim temporary insanity (or make excuses like he were on medication or his wife and mother constantly berated him, etc.), the judge would and should rule against that. And he's looking at all of these charges being first-degree murder charges because he pre-meditated them all and tried to cover-up in such a way that it would give him plenty of time to leave the country and find safe haven elsewhere. He is one of the worst kinds of evil and should be treated as such.

All mentioned are great examples. Everytime I watch the Franklin Floyd segment, I wish a policeman would beat that guy in the head with a club. He should undergo the same treatment (electric shock via car battery) that Roger Roxas had to go through in the Marcos' Buddha segment.

I have to take issue with people on the board claiming these criminal are where they belong. I strongly support the death penalty for violent offenders and much of it boils down to taxpayers (we are already getting gouged enough by taxes. tax cuts across the board --especially on th wealthy because they are primarily who own businesses-- would do wonders for our nation's economy. However, this isn't a political forum, nor do I wish to start any arguments). It costs anywhere between $36,000 to $100,000+ to keep an inmate in jail for one year. You can buy a nice, strong piece of rope at Trader Horn, Agway, etc for 10 - dollars. (obviously I support public hangings).

Edward W. Beverly did not live as a neighbor to her. He lived about 30 miles from her.

All mentioned are great examples. Everytime I watch the Franklin Floyd segment, I wish a policeman would beat that guy in the head with a club. He should undergo the same treatment (electric shock via car battery) that Roger Roxas had to go through in the Marcos' Buddha segment.

I have to take issue with people on the board claiming these criminal are where they belong. I strongly support the death penalty for violent offenders and much of it boils down to taxpayers (we are already getting gouged enough by taxes. tax cuts across the board --especially on th wealthy because they are primarily who own businesses-- would do wonders for our nation's economy. However, this isn't a political forum, nor do I wish to start any arguments). It costs anywhere between $36,000 to $100,000+ to keep an inmate in jail for one year. You can buy a nice, strong piece of rope at Trader Horn, Agway, etc for 10 - dollars. (obviously I support public hangings).

Roger Roxas....now that's a segment that doesn't get discussed on these boards.

Do you know where i can find the unsolved mysteries video of James Burnside? He is my dad... I have it recorded off the tv on a tape but it's kind of jumpy.

No, but at least he's behind bars for the rest of his life.
http://www.dc.state.fl.us/ActiveInmates/detail.asp?Bookmark=1&From=list&SessionID=159105489

James Burnside looks like a regular grandfather, but his eyes are still creepy.

Another ruthless bastard is Ira Einhorn. Kills the gf, then keeps her in the trunk for 18 mos....ugh...

his eyes are creepy and his voice is scary!

Roger Roxas....now that's a segment that doesn't get discussed on these boards.

I've never heard of that segment. Obviously a car battery shock was involved, but what are the details on that one?