I seem to recall some mention made on this board about the case of unidentified Grateful Dead fan. UM briefly profiled the case as part of the "Special Bulletin" segment (either during the 1995-96 season or the 1996-97 season)

The young man hitched a ride in a van that was ultimately involved in the car accident. He and the driver were both killed in the accident. The John Doe had no identification on him, but he some items with him, including two Grateful Dead ticket stubs and a note. The accident happened in Virginia, on June 26, 1995.

I came upon a Doe Network profile, which I imagine is the same case that UM aired.

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/127umva.html

I am intrigued with this case. It drives me crazy b/c he had a slip of paper with name and number on it from NY and it was disconnected or something but cops cant trace it to anyone. Kinda seems not much effort was made to idenify him. I would love to see this case solved. This guy had to have meant something to someone out there???

Those reconstructions and composites are scary! :eek: By the way, didn't the note scribbled on the napkin have his name on it? I remember it said something like "______, sorry we had to go." Then it had a number and was signed "Caroline and Caroline".

JASON. Wasn't that his name?

I was the one who mentioned this case awhile ago. I think TJ said something on this board about someone who contacted him with possible information about the case. I also find it odd that no one would have identified him yet. Let's hope someone recognizes him.

I was the one who mentioned this case awhile ago. I think TJ said something on this board about someone who contacted him with possible information about the case. I also find it odd that no one would have identified him yet. Let's hope someone recognizes him.

I feel that same as you do. It's odd that he remains unidentified. You know, it's kind of ironic that a case like this with many clues go unsolved, while some cases with much fewer clues were eventually solved.

But I'm optimistic that he will one day be identified. I honestly believe that this case is solvable. There are just too many clues in this case for it to go unsolved forever.

While I was on the Doe network awhile back, I came across Jack Jason Simmons. Case # 1043DMUT. I thought that he could of been the unidentified male. They have alot of similar features and not to mention the name "Jason". But I'm guessing they already looked into that and it's not him.

They have alot of similar features and not to mention the name "Jason". But I'm guessing they already looked into that and it's not him.


This may be a dumb question but how do you figure that?

Well, first off Zero, I said I was guessing that they already checked it out because the people who work for The Doe network and law enforcements who help them, that's their job. To check out possible matches between unidentified victims with missing people. Again, just a guess.

I understand what your saying barbs. Just wanted a little insight on your thoughts. I looked at both profiles right now and they're interesting to say the least. There is still that small possiblity, what with the hundreds of cases the doe networks have on their hands, that they haven't been able to compare the two cases.

one problem is that the height difference is about 5 inches between the two people.

njf

one problem is that the height difference is about 5 inches between the two people.

njf

Correct, I noticed that last week. I think that's the disqualifier. There is also an apparent age difference, but age is a subjective estimate and could easily err by the number of years, maybe 8-9 max, in this case. However, the boy who died was 5-6. That is taken from the body at autopsy and will be exact. The missing person was listed at 5-11. A missing person's report will be submitted by the family and no chance it will flub the height by 5 inches. Still, that's an interesting endeavor, comparing two cases to see if they match, in effect solving two in one.

Well I know Awsi will be proud of me bumping up this thread from May of last year. :p I was looking at some other missing websites with speculations on who he may be and this is the pictures that has by far resembled the composite the most. I didn't really look at the other stats that much I was just suprised by the similarities of the face. See what you guys think:

The composite of "John Doe":
http://www.vsp.state.va.us/missing_children/greensville-unidentified_child-06301995.htm

A Doe Network profile that IMO resembles the composite:
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1521dmmd.html

This case reminds me a little bit of the couple left behind on a diving trip in Australia. A simple case of not calling roll. The authorities should have gone to the next Grateful Dead concert to see who wasn't there.

Crystaldawn, your candidate is too normal. From the looks of him I'd check a NASCAR event, likely passed out.

With our guy you wonder how the distinctive facial features, wild red hair, and possible name of Jason weren't enough. You'd like to think if it made it to UM that indicates plenty of previous emphasis, but in this case somehow I doubt it.

Bump some 2003s or 2002s and we'll pay attention. No doubt I already took care of most bumpworthy.

Bump some 2003s or 2002s and we'll pay attention. No doubt I already took care of most bumpworthy.

Yes but unlike you I bump them up for good reasons.....:p

Yes but unlike you I bump them up for good reasons.....:p

I have exquisite reasoning to bump them. For example, we had a creative critique of Keely Shaye Smith's new physique thanks to me.

BTW, lousy handicapping by the person who bumped the thread titled, "Airing at 12 PM Effective May 24." No one is going to be fooled by that in late September. Well, almost no one. Far more diabolical would have been to search for an old thread called, "Episodes resume in October," or something like that, and bump it. :D

Naturally I thought of that weeks ago, but somehow I refrained.

The crazy part is that I know about a dozen guys who could pass for him.

I find it sad that this guy hasn't been accounted for yet. There has to be someone out there who knew him. It's almost as if his existence meant nothing. :(

Bumping this up as his case aired last night. I wish something could happen for this guy!

I would like to see this young man identified as well, but my good wishes are shadowed by my laughter at Dislimb's new avatar.

Seriously Dislimb... you kill me. :)

Seriously Dislimb... you kill me. :)

No. Smoking kills! That's why you shouldn't do it...

Seriously though, I have never seen this case. YouTube FTW? :notworthy

Its not a segment just about him but is titled "The Investigators" and mentions how law enforcement identifies john does then at the end they show a few cases that they are still trying to identify and his is one of them.

There's pretty regular discussion about this on the websleuths board. They always seem to have missing persons they're trying to match to the deceased guy so there is hope he'll be identified one day.

Correction. I just watched the Investigators segment and the Grateful Dead fan is not on there as I had thought. The one profiled at the end of that one was the unidentified couple who were found murdered.

Wasn't the unidentified John Doe in the Grateful Dead shirt a Special Alert? I don't remember but I want to say it was a short and sweet segment...

I read the Websleuth threads and there was plenty of interesting info. The body was apparently cremated more than 5 years ago but DNA was saved to aid identification. The consensus is the height was closer to 5-8, or even 5-9, and not the 5-6 that has been reported. The bodies of the driver and passenger were thrown through the windshield and hit pine trees. Death was instant from massive head injuries. One poster wrote that she was told a family called authorities shortly after the death and asked questions that included info that hadn't been released to the public, but never called back or claimed the body. There's speculation the family might not have cared, or been able to afford a burial, so they never came forward. I would file that under unlikely, but I'm sure it has happened in missing persons cases.

There's even a MySpace page:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=124701383

And this post had an article from 1996 that seemed to include the most info:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1273279&postcount=160

Also, here's one page I looked at with many people with Grateful Dead connections who have gone missing or been unidentified over the decades:

http://www.true-ghost-stories.com/HelpGratefulDead.html

(Note: that's obviously Tami Lepert in the YouTube box at the top of that link)

Wasn't the unidentified John Doe in the Grateful Dead shirt a Special Alert? I don't remember but I want to say it was a short and sweet segment...

Yes I think you're right and if I'm not mistaken I believe Keely Shaye Smith narrated it.

That MySpace page is MESSED up. Actually, I think it's a great idea, but it's kinda strange knowing that the person on the page is dead...

That MySpace page is MESSED up. Actually, I think it's a great idea, but it's kinda strange knowing that the person on the page is dead...

If you "friend" this person, who approves it?

This reminds me of an alumini from my class (class of 2000) who died semi-recently. I think he had a heart attack. He also had one of these Myspace profiles, but he created it before his death and his family found it after the fact. His sister continues to maintain it and it has since turned into a memorial of sorts for the kid. I thought it was a nice gesture and a good way to keep his memory alive.

If you "friend" this person, who approves it?

I just added it, so I guess I'll find out.

I am fascinated by this case and have tried to find as much information about it as I can. There has always been speculation that "Jason" was a runaway or grew up in foster care. There's also the theory his family didn't want to come forward because they were hiding something...possibly a child custody issue they didn't want to come to light. I know this is a long shot, but I want to get your opinion on Dustin Robert Mansell as a possible match for Jason. He's listed on the Doe Network as having been abducted by his mother in 1983. He has red hair, and Jason Williams is listed as one of his aliases. He would have been 17 at the time of the fatal accident. (Police believe the victim was between 16 and 21).

I am fascinated by this case and have tried to find as much information about it as I can. There has always been speculation that "Jason" was a runaway or grew up in foster care. There's also the theory his family didn't want to come forward because they were hiding something...possibly a child custody issue they didn't want to come to light. I know this is a long shot, but I want to get your opinion on Dustin Robert Mansell as a possible match for Jason. He's listed on the Doe Network as having been abducted by his mother in 1983. He has red hair, and Jason Williams is listed as one of his aliases. He would have been 17 at the time of the fatal accident. (Police believe the victim was between 16 and 21).

http://doenetwork.org/cases/183dmca.html

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mansell_dustin.html

You never know...

Hmm. That's interesting.

Hey, Dislimb... what happened when you made the friend request on MySpace? Did you get added?

Here's the problem with look alike situations. The 1990 picture of that missing kid from Santa Barbara, Dustin Robert Mansell, looks very similar to my 6 year old nephew. I almost guarantee if the birth dates were similar and we didn't know different, many people would try to claim it was the same kid:

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/9578/dmanselldf2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4403/picnl4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Yeah, that's the stuff I got him from Hawaii. I think he's trying a hula dance.

Only problem is, the unidentified male has brown eyes and Dustin Robert Mansell has blue.

Here's the problem with look alike situations. The 1990 picture of that missing kid from Santa Barbara, Dustin Robert Mansell, looks very similar to my 6 year old nephew. I almost guarantee if the birth dates were similar and we didn't know different, many people would try to claim it was the same kid:

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/9578/dmanselldf2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4403/picnl4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Yeah, that's the stuff I got him from Hawaii. I think he's trying a hula dance.

Nice picture Awsi. Wow he really does look a lot like you.

Hmm. That's interesting.

Hey, Dislimb... what happened when you made the friend request on MySpace? Did you get added?

I did indeed. But that was on my old account and I never got around to messaging the person who ran the site.

Nice picture Awsi. Wow he really does look a lot like you.

Yeah, he does. My sister always kids me about that. And my nephew gets annoyed when I'm with them and I get confused for his father and not his uncle.

That 1990 picture of Dustin Robert Mansell was spooky when I opened the link. Somewhere I have old pictures of myself that resemble that picture even more than my nephew does.

Somewhere I have old pictures of myself that resemble that picture even more than my nephew does.


Are you trying to tell us something, Awsi? ;)

I'm pretty sure that MySpace account is run by someone from WebSleuths. A few people over there have made MySpace profiles for several John and Jane Doe cases.

This is one of the first cases I saw when I went to The Doe Network years ago. I tried to match him up twice, but it was a no go both times. This one breaks my heart for so many reasons. My brother was hanging out at Dead shows during this time and it could have just as easily been him or any one of about 15 guys I knew in high school. I think I've probably forwarded his profile to every Deadhead, Wharf Rat and member of The Rainbow Family I've ever met. Nothing ever came of it. Jason Doe is my pet case and has been for years. But, since I'm not as good at finding out things and researching as other people, I've never come up with much. I hope he gets a real name some day soon.

Are you trying to tell us something, Awsi? ;)

Have a hamburger, CRicci. :lol:

Hahahahaha. :)

That one your avatar is holding looks REALLY good. :)

Have a hamburger, CRicci. :lol:

You do guys realize its a plastic hamburger, right? :lol: The question is, is it supposed to be like she's holding a toy (which I initially thought) or was it UM's feeble attempt to make it look like it was real food.

You do guys realize its a plastic hamburger, right? :lol: The question is, is it supposed to be like she's holding a toy (which I initially thought) or was it UM's feeble attempt to make it look like it was real food.

Is that Nick Scoobish from UM in your Avatar? Hehehe, too cute!

Is that Nick Scoobish from UM in your Avatar? Hehehe, too cute!

No, good guess though. Its one of those UM segments that has never aired on Lifetime of Roxann Jeeves and her son Kristopher. Unfortunately they were both murdered on Kristopher's 5th birthday around Christmas. :( Their killer was arrested and convicted several years later thankfully.

I wonder if this Grateful Dead fan ever used marijuana. I've heard that many of their fans do. It's not widely known, but I swear it's true!

You do guys

I certainly hope she does anyway... :lol:

OMG Dislimb! *swat!*

...and I'm STILL laughing....

OMG, I just looked at that myspace page. I can't decide if it's really creepy or really hilarious. All of the "dead" puns....argh. Poor Jason.

OMG Dislimb! *swat!*

...and I'm STILL laughing....

You know you like it. :p

Hi everyone, I'm a new member as of today. This case has intrigued me for years now, so I'm bumping it up.

I'm very curious to know if investigators ever tried to track down that phone number. I understand that they didn't have an area code, but it still seems as though it would have been a very promising lead at the time. It would be a real shame if for whatever reason, such a lead wasn't throughly checked out.

I tend to believe that this guy was never reported missing. And that this is a case that probably won't be solved until a family member comes out of the woodwork and starts asking questions about their long lost relative.

With that in mind, I do check in on this case frequently. It would be nice for this young man to have his name back.

Hi everyone, I'm a new member as of today. This case has intrigued me for years now, so I'm bumping it up.

I'm very curious to know if investigators ever tried to track down that phone number. I understand that they didn't have an area code, but it still seems as though it would have been a very promising lead at the time. It would be a real shame if for whatever reason, such a lead wasn't throughly checked out.

I tend to believe that this guy was never reported missing. And that this is a case that probably won't be solved until a family member comes out of the woodwork and starts asking questions about their long lost relative.

With that in mind, I do check in on this case frequently. It would be nice for this young man to have his name back.

Welcome! :) Yes I've thought about this one several times over the years. I would have thought they would have gotten some sort of lead with all the different phone number combinations. My guess is that he was someone who was a runaway or never stuck around any place for very long and hasn't been reported missing.

Thanks for the welcome, crystaldawn!

I agree, I think he was either a runaway or someone that moved around a lot. Maybe he has parents who do wonder about him, but believe that since he hasn't contacted them, that he doesn't want them in his life. Perhaps they think, "Well, if something had happened to him, surely we would hear about it". Not imagining such circumstances as him hitching a ride that gets him killed in an accident, while he has no ID on him. Then again, maybe he never really had any family to speak of. Maybe his friends were drifters themselves, never really keeping in touch.

I'd love to see this case profiled on Dateline, or another equally popular news show. Those Carolines, or someone who knows them, must be out there somewhere. Not to mention, his relatives or long lost friends. It seems it would take just one person to solve this mystery.

Well, they identified this guy http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2008/02/02/news/doc47a48e445e6d2475469460.txt years later with nothing more than a very old photograph.

janice Says:
July 18, 2008 at 10:11 pm
This week I was showing a photo of a Doesnet unidentified person. The guy who was killed in Greensville VA in a car accident. This same person known as a victim associated with the above case. A friend attending a group I attend said ,”I know him”She states he is much older than the Doesnet estimates. HE was raised in Maysville N C. She states she went to the same school.She states he walked with a limp because of what she thinks is a birth defect. He was a frequent customer at a store she worked.She says he was a small time drug dealer who always attended concerts.He was a hippy type.HE wore the rock shirts.She even stated that he talk with a nasal twang .He was known to hang out in the JACKSONVILLE NC area. She said he attended Whiteoak High School. in abt.1972.His hair was carrot top red, curly, and down to his shoulders, HE was really thin and average ht. He was possibly named Sullivan or Summerlin.SHE SAId THE NAME JASON DOES NOT JOG HER MEMORY. If she can locate her school annual.she will contact me.IF ANY OF YOU CAN CHECK OUT birth records for Jones Co. in Trenton NC. or have a WHITE OAK H S ANNUAL.



http://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2006/02/24/missing-jack-jason-simmons-41494-salt-lake-city-ut/#comment-44484

http://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2006/02/24/missing-jack-jason-simmons-41494-salt-lake-city-ut/#comment-44484
I wonder if the girl found her yearbook. would be awesome to see this case solved.

http://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2006/02/24/missing-jack-jason-simmons-41494-salt-lake-city-ut/#comment-44484


If "Jason" attended high school in 1972, he would have been over thirty-five years old in 1995. Pretty far outside of the age estimate of 16-21.

I've read somewhere and am unable to find it now that the family of this person contacted LE and was able to answer some questions about previously-unreleased information and that LE believed that it WAS the family of the deceased, but no name was given to the public or released. I'm not sure if the family didn't give their name, or what. They might have just called to satisfy their own curiosity. I think the victim was a "throwaway" kid in that his family did not care so much what happened to him. Maybe he was a drug addict or maybe he just made life choices they did not agree with.

Very sad case all around.


I don't think he could have been 35. I'm 34 and while I'm often mistaken for someone younger than my age, I don't think I could pass for the 16-21 bracket.

Update from Websleuths:

Jack Jason Simmons has been ruled out as a possible match, by DNA and dentals

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/simmons_jack.html

I read somewhere online that the kid actually died in a hospital about two weeks after the car accident, he was probably in a coma or something but this one source seemed to have him die two weeks later or so.

Also, the note in his pocket contained a phone number. Granted the area code was missing, but it should not be THAT HARD to try out even a hundred area codes in surrounding areas, ya know, and try and see if the number matches to a 'Caroline'?

Any other opinions...?

I read somewhere online that the kid actually died in a hospital about two weeks after the car accident, he was probably in a coma or something but this one source seemed to have him die two weeks later or so.

Also, the note in his pocket contained a phone number. Granted the area code was missing, but it should not be THAT HARD to try out even a hundred area codes in surrounding areas, ya know, and try and see if the number matches to a 'Caroline'?

Any other opinions...?

According to every source that I have read regarding this young man, he was killed instantly and found dead at the scene. So I'm inclined to think that article was incorrect.

On Websleuths there is a forum for Jason Doe. One of the members there was recently in contact with a detective on this case, and he said that they did call the phone number and it was a dead end. The theory being that the girls had given Jason Doe a fake number. I don't know any details beyond that at this time.

On Websleuths there is a forum for Jason Doe. One of the members there was recently in contact with a detective on this case, and he said that they did call the phone number and it was a dead end. The theory being that the girls had given Jason Doe a fake number. I don't know any details beyond that at this time.

I don't know a lot about this case, so I'm stepping blindly here.

1. Is it possible that the number might not necessarily be a phone number? It may be a "number jump code" for a different phone number.
2. Has the possibility that the guy may have been involved with drugs looked into? The phone number could be a dealers number that has long been disposed off.
3. Could it be a pager number?
4. Most likely the possibility the phone number was copied incorrectly or a digit was switched or misread?

I'll see if i can read more about it.

I don't know a lot about this case, so I'm stepping blindly here.

1. Is it possible that the number might not necessarily be a phone number? It may be a "number jump code" for a different phone number.
2. Has the possibility that the guy may have been involved with drugs looked into? The phone number could be a dealers number that has long been disposed off.
3. Could it be a pager number?
4. Most likely the possibility the phone number was copied incorrectly or a digit was switched or misread?

I'll see if i can read more about it.

His forum on Websleuths has lots of good info. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=172 (I'm Shecky on that forum, by the way)

You raise some good points above, I too wondered if maybe the phone number was just incorrect by one digit. I asked the person who had been in contact with the detective if they had any more details on how the police pursued the phone number lead (you know, did they try different area codes or combinations of the digits etc) but haven't heard back yet.

I read the Websleuth threads and there was plenty of interesting info. The body was apparently cremated more than 5 years ago but DNA was saved to aid identification.


Just curious, where was the body for the 7 or so years after he died, in some refridgerator?

"To Jason, Sorry we had to go. See you around. Caroline O. and Caroline T. 914-###-####"

The above is the not that was found on the Grateful Dead fan. Some observations I've had.

1. What are the odds that a person would know two girls with the first name Caroline? Heck even more what are the odds he'd run into them at one party. I find it hard to believe that both Caroline is the actual name of both people mentioned.

2. Not too many last names that end in the letter "o", except for Irish last names. I don't know how many Irish-descent parents name the girls "Caroline"

3. If the names are nicknames or petnames, it would insinuate that the person who wrote the not knew Jason Doe well.

4. If they just new him barely, the use of a petname would have to be something that he would understand upon meeting them. Perhaps "T" and "O" are from North or South Carolina or go to schools in that area. Maybe the "Carolines" were wearing Carolina Panther gear.

5. Granted some people like to play games, but I really feel the phone number is genuine. The fact that a phone number was given indicates to me a 'friendly' encounter. That the note writer wanted Jason Doe to call the number.

6. Some girls do play the missing digit game. They give you some of the number or a partially incorrect number to see how willing you are to find them.

7. 914 is the area code for Westchester County, NY. Having lived driven through the area it encompasses quite a few towns. Including some very well off areas.

8. The note is pretty straightforward. No excess words or instructions. No "love you" or "you were interesting" or "come on tomorrow". The note simply can be perceived as an instruction to call with "Caroline T" and "Caroline O" as the only identifiers. The writer of the letter assumed that the person who it was written for would understand who it was from and call the number.

9. One thought that has occured to me is the possibility that the "Carolines" may refer to twin girls. I remember hearing about a pair of twin girls who were ame Jane F. and Jane H. withe their middle names being the only difference. Perhaps that is the case here.

10. An interesting piece of info that would be helpful would be what type of paper the letter was written on and what was used to write the letter.(pencil, pen, marker, mascara pencil"?) Was the paper torn off of something like a flyer or a notepad?

I think the fact that Jason Doe has not been identified is a big clue in itself. It possibly hints to him being foreign, juvenile felon, orphaned, a runaway or that his family has no interest in looking for him. I do think their is a good possibility that he could be foreign.

Don't know if this angle has been looked at but is this the "Caroline" referred to?
Not to far from Westchester. Wonder if it has a 914 area code?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline,_New_York

Supposing that Caroline is indicating the city the girls came from that they told Jasonn Doe. As opposed to saying Olivia and Theresa from Caroline High School or Caroline, NY. Perhaps Caroline O and Caroline T. is a short hand for that?

Not to many girls names that begin with the letter "O".

I think the fact that Jason Doe has not been identified is a big clue in itself. It possibly hints to him being foreign, juvenile felon, orphaned, a runaway or that his family has no interest in looking for him. I do think their is a good possibility that he could be foreign.


Mastermind - whoever above wrote the number with the 914 as the area code is wrong. the number STARTED with the 914 (ie. --- 914 - xxxx). The area code is unknown.

Though like I mentioned in a previous post, it couldn't have been that hard for investigators to do plug-and-chug with area codes, even 100 or so of them, from any of the surrounding areas.

Of course it had to be done then, it is 14 years later and phone numbers and area codes have more than probably changed, though if cell phone or home phone numbers are kept on file by companies, maybe it is still possible.

It is not Dustin Mansell, although I can see a resemblance:

http://www.charleyproject.org/resolved/resolved39.html

He has a Facebook page now as well. Here's hoping this gets solved one day.



http://www.facebook.com/posted.php?id=168609286658#!/pages/Grateful_Doe/168609286658

A few things make me think he wasn't necessarily a throw-away. First the Fila shoes. While Filas aren't wildly expensive, they are a bit pricey for someone living on the road. Then there's the shirt. It was brand new from the show the night before. Anyone who has ever bought a shirt at a concert knows they can cost. Especially Liquid Blue, the company that makes Dead apparel. He bought his tickest from a scalper. Again, not cheap. He could have worked odd jobs enough to afford the tickets, I know tons of people who do that. It just doesn't compute to me that he would have been a transient. I've always got a North Carolina vibe, but that's just a gut feeling and nothing more.

Also, I read somewhere that there was a Caroline T and a Caroline O involved with the Warf Rats. Both said they did not know who Jason was. Gun to my head, I could not tell you where I read that, but I'm guessing Web Sleuths. Not certain though. It wouldn't be uncommon to use the first name and last initial since the Warf Rats were sort of the Dead community's version of AA. I've always wondered if he didn't cross paths with the Warf Rats at the show and maybe asked about joining them. So many people would have talked to them at that show and others that it would be difficult to remember one person.

I still hope this one gets solved some day. Every time I start digging through cases, Jason pops up again.

Sorry for the novel, I am not known for brevity. Once a few years back, someone on the Gathering of the Vibes board brought up a possible match that was so close, it was scary. The guy's name was Jason, he had the same facial features and would have been the same age. Turns out he was alive and well. I felt like a complete jacka** for hoping the Jason was this Jason because it felt like I wished a living man dead.

Mastermind - whoever above wrote the number with the 914 as the area code is wrong. the number STARTED with the 914 (ie. --- 914 - xxxx). The area code is unknown.

Though like I mentioned in a previous post, it couldn't have been that hard for investigators to do plug-and-chug with area codes, even 100 or so of them, from any of the surrounding areas.

Of course it had to be done then, it is 14 years later and phone numbers and area codes have more than probably changed, though if cell phone or home phone numbers are kept on file by companies, maybe it is still possible.

Always found this case interesting. Presuming LE is telling the truth about having checked the phone number (which would have been easier in the 90s when there were fewer area codes and fewer numbers in general), it has to have been either fake or written wrong. That the area code was missing does suggest the Carolines and Jason either were going to the same place or from the same place, but since that place is unknown, that's not much of a clue.

You would have to think that the reason Jason remains unidentified would be that he dropped out of his parent's lives and they just didn't care what happened to him. This wouldn't be shocking if you had conservative parents and a deadhead, likely drug-using child.

"To Jason, Sorry we had to go. See you around. Caroline O. and Caroline T. 914-###-####"

If this is note was really made by two girls to this guy, it's really weird that the number is not good.

The wording of the note suggests it was given by one of two girls and passed to a common friend so that he or she gives it to Jason Doe. So why is the number leading nowhere? It's almost impossible to mistype your own number unless you are heavily intoxicated (which can happen in a GD concert).

The only way I can see is that the girls told the guy the message, but he screwed up noting it, possibly because he was under influence or the noise was too loud for him to hear clearly.

Girls who give faked numbers to get rid of a guy usually do not lose time to apologize for going. They simply write a fake number and move on, without apologizing. They actually took the time to write off an apology, their name AND first letter of their last name (which suggests that Jason Doe would recognize them), and then their number.

So either it was a sick joke made by two girls to tease Jason Doe, or we ignore something the police knows but don't want to tell us.

914 is an Area Code in New York.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_code_914

EDIT: It seems 914 isn't the Area Code, but the prefix... so it'd be ***-914-****

You would have to think that the reason Jason remains unidentified would be that he dropped out of his parent's lives and they just didn't care what happened to him. This wouldn't be shocking if you had conservative parents and a deadhead, likely drug-using child.

It's also possible that the parent or parents are either mentally impaired, jailed, away in another country, or deceased. He could also be illegitimate, which means that even his DNA would be only useful to link him to his mother.

It's also possible that the parent or parents are either mentally impaired, jailed, away in another country, or deceased. He could also be illegitimate, which means that even his DNA would be only useful to link him to his mother.

Yes, it's possible, although if Jason wasn't an American, I think my assumption above would hold true, since you'd still have parents searching for the son who went to America and disappeared.

The story that someone called police shortly after the accident would give credence to this theory. It's pretty cold-hearted though.

DNA doesn't care about legitimacy, it would still link him to a father.

Sorry if this has already been asked but....

What of the other person in the accident? Wasn't the driver killed as well? Didn't the driver have some ID or next of kin that could have been contacted? At least then someone who knew the driver could have said "he was coming from X place" or "he was on his way to XXXX".
:confused:

Sorry if this has already been asked but....

What of the other person in the accident? Wasn't the driver killed as well? Didn't the driver have some ID or next of kin that could have been contacted? At least then someone who knew the driver could have said "he was coming from X place" or "he was on his way to XXXX".
:confused:

Yes, the driver was identified. It is assumed that Jason was a hitchhiker that he picked up in the midst of his travels.

Rewatched the segment, and four things got me thinking:

a) We have absolutely nothing that links the note with the tickets, only that both were in Jason Doe's belongings. They could be totally unrelated, and the authors of the note be from outside Washington DC area.

b) Why isn't there an area code one the piece of paper, in the first place? If this was a note by two girls passed to Jason Doe and they were from outside the area, then they would have put an area code. So either the girls were locals to the location of the GD concert, or much more likely Jason Doe would have known which area code to use, maybe because he was himself from the same area code or nearby.

c) I doubt the youngster traveled across the whole of United States on his own. If he did it was to come somewhere where there were relatives, and then he probably hitchhiked in regions he felt safe in and had contacts with people who would help him. We know that he was in a GD show in Washington DC two years in a row, and got killed in Virginia, just the day after, so I tend to believe he was from the Virginia, Washington, DC, or the neighboring states.

Plus, the guy had enough money to buy his GD tickets for two nights in a row (they were bought from a scalper who brought 20 tickets with him to the concert, so most probably overpriced) and have FILA athletic shoes on his feet, so he had access to some form of income. He was 5'7"-5'9" and 169 pounds, so not exactly the skinny type, which suggests that he was healthy and well-fed, probably living somewhere and hitchhiking to go to certain locations.

d) There's was a doodle on the lower part of the note, which suggests that either both Carolines or the one Caroline who wanted to pass her number took time enough to draw the note. This wasn't a note drawn in a hurry, and certainly not during a rock concert outside in a park. It could lend credit to the theory that it was a planified sick joke on Jason Doe, but why would two girls waste time to pull a sick prank like that on a hitchhiker? I tend to believe that one of the Caroline and Jason Doe were at least on friendly terms, and she wanted to keep contact. I seriously doubt two girls would lose their time to do all this elaborate jib-jab and doodling on the note just to give a false number.

I still feel that either the note was given to a common acquaintance so that he/she would give it to Jason Doe, or the note was left somewhere that Jason Doe would find it. Again, suggesting that Jason Doe and one of the Caroline were at least friends enough that they would trust someone to give it to Jason, or that she would know he'd be passing by the location shortly after they've left.

Just a few things...

a.) The Carolina Panthers first season was 1995 so I doubt that the Carolines would have been wearing Panther gear...and especially not at a Grateful Dead concert. Not that GD fans can't be sports fans...I just can't imagine two girls deciding to wear sports gear instead of something more appropriate. In VA, we already had the Redskins (kind of) and very few people switched their allegiance until the Panthers did well.

b.) He went through a windshield. His face was badly damaged. The nose on the drawing is probably incorrect which can really screw up identification. I wish they'd release a drawing with a more "proper" generic nose. It's easy to focus on the twisted-looking nose and ignore the rest of the features.

c.) My best friend has the same first name that I do and we go to the same events together so I think it's entirely possible that there could be two Carolines who know each other together at some point in time. It was still a rather popular name thanks to the Kennedys.

d.) Until cell phones were around, people really didn't put area codes in front of their phone numbers. I know when I was a teen it wouldn't have occurred to me to give a boy who is local to me the area code as well as my number.

e.) It's possible that he was supposed to give the note to someone else but didn't pass it along for whatever reason.

f.) The tickets were bought from a scalper.

g.) FILAs were really popular and expensive in mid-90s thanks to the Grant Hill shoe. This doesn't necessarily mean that Jason Doe had means - what is an important expense to one person is a waste of money to another.

h.) There have been various reports that his natural hair color is actually brown and was dyed red.

i.) The driver was returning to his home in NC after visiting his GF in Northern VA, IIRC. The next GD concert was further North so it has been hypothesized that he was hitchhiking home. There really is a TON of information about this case on websleuths.

I always wondered if Jason was in fact this doe's friend who he had traveled with TO the concerts but they lost track of each other and Jason left without him leaving him to find his own way home. Maybe they had an argument? Who knows. But it would also explain why he didn't have much with him - perhaps it was in his friend's vehicle?

It's entirely possible that his parents don't know that they should be looking for him as an unidentified corpse, too. Or they simply couldn't afford to claim him at the time and figured that he'd be buried by the state.

FILA was more closely associated with rap in the 80s and 90s so him wearing the FILAs seems to not jive with being at a Grateful Dead concert.

I just came across the page for Jack Jason Simmons on the Charley Project. My immediate thought when I saw him was jason Doe. The resemblence is uncanny! I've been switching back and forth between this forum and other links trying to find out for sure if jack jason Simmons has been ruled out as being Jason Doe.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/simmons_jack.html

I just came across the page for Jack Jason Simmons on the Charley Project. My immediate thought when I saw him was jason Doe. The resemblence is uncanny! I've been switching back and forth between this forum and other links trying to find out for sure if jack jason Simmons has been ruled out as being Jason Doe.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/simmons_jack.html

I agree that the resemblance is there, but I've seen on other sites that he was ruled out.

Wanting the case to be resolved, the resemblense, conflicting stories of whether the DNA was compared, the name, ......really wanted it to be him!

We all did. Sadly, he is conclusively not.

He's being sleuthed here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=172

I was just telling a friend about this case. As I was describing him....it came to me...this young man was well kept. He had perfect teeth, his clothes were in good shape. If you look at the actual photos of his shoes they look pretty worn, but other than that, he does not fit the stereotype of your typical person on the road with no toiletries, changes of clothes, etc. I also do not recall him showing up as having alcohol or drugs in his system either.

So I am thinking, what if he had gone to the concert and had his backpack or whatever stolen. Or, he might have been robbed-especially if he had been hitchiking home after the concert. That would explain the lack of ID and personal effects, and it also makes even harder to understand why no one is looking for him! :mad: