Just curious as to your opinions on whether Frank Norris and the Anglin brothers survived the Alcatraz waters and got out alive or not? After re-watching the Alcatraz on "Legends" and doing a little research (it fasinates me lol) I don't think the guys made it.

They didn't make it.

Justin

I don't think they made it either. The fact that there has been NO evidence in the last 43 years that they made it.

I have "Riddle of the Rock", the book by Don Denevi, the professor in the Alcatraz episode who was friends with Clarence Carnes. It's an interesting read, but it's obvious that Denevi has put Carnes on a pedestal and believes EVERYTHING that man told him. Remember what he said on UM? "These guys made it! They made it because Clarence said they did!"....um, that's not a good reason.

What convinced me that they didn't make it was when UM had the endurance swimmer, Dave Horning swim through SF bay, and he almost didn't make it--his legs were cramping up. If an actual cold water athletic swimmer could barely make it, then how can 3 ordinary men with no conditioning do it? And for Denevi's arguement that the Anglin's were expert swimmers? Well, there's a BIG difference between swimming in the "Florida swamps" when you were younger and swimming in SF bay when you've been in prison for 10 years.

I think it's an interesting story, but there is no doubt in my mind that all 3 men died in the water.

Here's my only question...

Norris was reported to be extremely smart. These guys had almost every angle covered on how to pull this off. I find it funny that they assumed they could swim or raft to safety.

I guess my point is that if they were that smart and that organized, perhaps they were met in the bay by a boat of some kind. They wouldn't have to be in the water long and they could have been picked up and taken almost anywhere.

The other thing (just to play devil's advocate) if they did get out I highly doubt they would let that be known. Even after this long, they would still be arrested and put back in the jug. If it were me, I would smile to myself and live a life of peace.

I guess this is the kind of mystery we will never know the end to, one way or another.

Did you catch the news bit last week about the teenage boy who swam from Alcatraz to the mainland with no problem?

If a teenager could do it, why couldn't three grown men?

Especially when a couple of months later, one of the inmates received a postcard as a sign that they had made it.

I think they made it. If not, why have none of the bodies been discovered?

No doubt they made it, officials just deny the fact because they don't want to admit that anyone could beat "The Rock".

Uhm, we're talking about the Pacific Ocean.

Saying they made it just because their bodies have not been found is like saying that Jimmy Hoffa is still alive because his body hasn't been found.

The evidence strongly suggests they drowned. What evidence is there supporting any other explanation?

Did any of you guys watch AMW last night? They had a segment about the three men who escaped and it was very interesting. They talked to one retired policeman who soon after they escaped saw a body that washed up onshore and by some of the things with the body thought it was an escaped prisoner. They also though interviewed 2 people who claimed to have had conversations with two of the escapees years later. One even had a picture of an elderly man who claimed to be one of the three. They had an artist do an age progressed photo of the three and showed it to audience hoping that someone has seen them since their escape and would call in.

I watched part of it, was interesting that John Walsh wanted them back in jail after all these years and they never seemed to hurt anybody after escaping, especially now that their old.

I watched part of it, was interesting that John Walsh wanted them back in jail after all these years and they never seemed to hurt anybody after escaping, especially now that their old.

That shouldn't be a surprise. I mean, that's part of the job of a crimefighting show like AMW and UM. And it doesn't matter if a fugitive never hurt anyone while on the run, or how long they've been on the run. The general duty is to track down the fugitives until they are found, alive or otherwise.

To simply give up and let go would only send the wrong message. Rightly or wrongly, it would imply that you're home free if you remain on the run long enough.

The three escapee's (Morris and the Anglin Bros) most likely did not make it out of the water alive. My thoughts, These three were career criminals that were shipped to "The Rock" because of escape attempts from other federal prisons. The fact that after this escape, these three guys became 3 " Mr upstanding citizens" never to do any wrong again is highly unlikely. As far as the postcard goes. (you have to remember, most of the inmates knew that a break was taking place.) I think the postcard was sent by a contact on the outside regardless if they made it or not as a way to humiliate authorities. IMHO it was a way for the prisoners to have the controls, however briefly. Just me.

I respect all of your opinions. However, I also respect mine.

For instance, suppose you had a criminal record and you were sent to the worst prison in America. Notorious for inmate abuse, long term stints in the hole and not a real good chance of ever setting foot on dry land again.

I don't know, maybe it is just my own warped thinking, but I would think very carefully about going on the straight and narrow. Besides, just because they weren't seen committing other crimes, doesn't mean that they didn't. Wonderful thing about our country is that we have the freedom of travel. And knowing that, they could have very easily disguised their looks, changed their habits and moved elsewhere.

You really don't think that the families are goint to stand up and say, "oh yeah, they made it"? Most men like that probably would have cut their losses with their families and/or friends and decided to start over.

It has been done many times. Adults dropping out of society and moving somewhere else, with a new name and new looks.

Besides, I can't get over the fact that a teenage boy was able to swim the waters - the same waters with the same hazards, including sharks and tides - and survived.

It is also possible that they had accomplices waiting out in the water with a boat. Maybe the flotation devices were a means to simply get out to the deeper water and to the boats where they were taken to safety.

And, contrary to popular belief, it was NOT well-known in the prison that they were planning an escape. There were a few people that knew, but not a great many. They told only trusted people. In a place like Alcatraz, with the opportunity to maybe get a better cell, job or early release, if it was common knowledge, do you really think someone could have kept their mouth shut about this?

Think about it.

Well, I remember that on an episode of Mythbusters, they replicated the raft used in the escape to the best of their abilities (used the same materials as the others, the same methods to create it, designed it similar to the actual based on ...I forget) and they made it entirely across on the raft. Plus with the fact that it is possible to swim it (a teenager swimming actually makes sense, since most people are at their peak physical condition during the teenage years (three prison inmates in a jail known for abuse might not have such an easy time making it in the dead of night (dunno when the teen did it), especially because they could have become off-track and swam way off-track and drowned. On Mythbusters, they made it (in the dead of night) , and the teen made it, so perhaps the theory is not so farfetched.

Honestly, I think that they might have made it. Probably at least one of them died during the escape, and they are probably all dead now.

Oh well. Justice should have been served, but the chance that they are alive is slim, let alone the chance of us finding them and going through the proper legal proceedings for the new crime they have commited of escaping. They'd just die in the process, I would assume.

Did any of you guys watch AMW last night? They had a segment about the three men who escaped and it was very interesting. They talked to one retired policeman who soon after they escaped saw a body that washed up onshore and by some of the things with the body thought it was an escaped prisoner. They also though interviewed 2 people who claimed to have had conversations with two of the escapees years later. One even had a picture of an elderly man who claimed to be one of the three. They had an artist do an age progressed photo of the three and showed it to audience hoping that someone has seen them since their escape and would call in.

I saw that show. I thought it was extremely interesting that FBI and law enforcement were keeping tabs of the family members in Florida for years including perhaps checking their mail. So that makes me think they weren't as confident in failure and death as they always project publicly.

The body that supposedly washed ashore was something I've never heard before. I'm very skeptical of that. You know damn well if they found a body they would have connected it to the high profile escape and paraded it around in front of the media. Heck, just look what they did to the supposed weather balloon in the Roswell case and that was 15 years earlier.

Still, I'm very confident the men didn't make it. I can't explain the bodies not showing up, especially three of them. That defies probability. If one didn't turn up that could be explained but all three drifting out to sea or sinking without a trace doesn't make sense. But if I had to put odds on it, it makes much less sense that three hardened career criminals could escape to longterm freedom yet never be heard from again.

I completely discount the eyewitness testimony regarding the old men. Just this afternoon I saw a program in which a legal expert predicted that within 10 years eyewitness testimony will be all but discounted. Let's hope so. That case in Texas that came to light last weekend where an innocent guy was apparently put to death is another one that relied on the two aspects I despise: creative and pushy officers and prosecutors desperate to put a check mark beside a case, and forcing reluctant or unsure witnesses to make a definitive statement regarding a suspect. In that case the guy who recanted claims he was threatened by law enforcement to finger the guy. I'm sure that's much more common than we like to believe.

No doubt it's possible to swim to shore safely. Another Alcatraz inmate proved that a year later in 1963 when he made it to the rocks but was exhausted and caught up on jagged rocks when re-captured. My gut instinct is the raft failed and the men were wearing too much bulky clothing and gear that hindered their swimming and caused death by drowning.

There was actually a escape from alcatraz triathlon on may 2nd 2010, the first part of the event was to swim to shore. I know these guys are in wet suits and in great shape but makes me wonder if they made it.

link here http://www.escapefromalcatraztriathlon.com

any updates? ;)

Just curious as to your opinions on whether Frank Norris and the Anglin brothers survived the Alcatraz waters and got out alive or not? After re-watching the Alcatraz on "Legends" and doing a little research (it fasinates me lol) I don't think the guys made it.

There has been no evidence that they did not make it, only suspicions. I believe they likely had help from the outside in order to complete their escape (and to start a life on the run). Then they fled the country, or live out in a rural part of the country where they could easily hide.

The bodies have never been discovered, nor has their raft. If their raft sank or was damaged while at sea, it is possible they used the raft to get as close to shore as possible, then swam the rest of the way (it couldn't have been too far or too long a swim to make them suffer hypothermia).

The police said they had to have stolen cars and/or clothing to make their escape successful and although no such thefts were reported in the area at that time, there had to be help from the outside to get them out of harm's way.

Someone that has been on this case for the past eight years mentions there was a report of a stolen vehicle at around the time frame of the escape.


http://www.komonews.com/home/video/115752489.html?tab=video

I read somewhere that Morris and the Anglin Brothers got their idea to escape from Alcatraz from an issue of Popular Mechanics Magazine that was among the Reading Materials available to them from the Prison Library. 1962 was the 50th anniversary of the Titanic Disaster and the magazine had a "Role Playing" Scenario that had you in this situation.

1. You are a Passenger aboard the ill-fated Liner.

2. It's obvious you will not get on one of the Lifeboats.

Therefore, you have 2 1/2 Hours to, using items that would be available on the ship, put together a makeshift raft that will let you stay afloat long enough for the Carpathia to rescue you.

The article had instructions on how to make a raft using these materials, and when the prisoners read this article (Which made its way past the Prison Censors), they hatched their scheme to get out of Prison.

I read somewhere that Morris and the Anglin Brothers got their idea to escape from Alcatraz from an issue of Popular Mechanics Magazine that was among the Reading Materials available to them from the Prison Library. 1962 was the 50th anniversary of the Titanic Disaster and the magazine had a "Role Playing" Scenario that had you in this situation.

1. You are a Passenger aboard the ill-fated Liner.

2. It's obvious you will not get on one of the Lifeboats.

Therefore, you have 2 1/2 Hours to, using items that would be available on the ship, put together a makeship raft that will let you stay afloat long enough for the Carpathia to rescue you.

The article had instructions on how to make a raft using these materials, and when the prisoners read this article (Which made its way past the Prison Censors), they hatched their scheme to get out of Prison.

The UM broadcast did mention they did get ideas from Popular Mechanics and Sports Illustrated. I felt the UM Alcatraz special was really well done and ran down a good history of other famous inmates and gave information regarding other escape attempts. RS holding one of the actual dummy heads and other tools was also a nice addition.

Because of the freedom of information act the FBI files on this case were released. There is mention of a boat with all of it's lights off entering the bay and then leaving after a few minutes. Also, at the anglin brothers mothers funeral, two women (who were described as looking like men with wigs) showed up and left before family or the FBI could find out their identity.

I never thought those guys made it. Its been almost a half century, surely if they made it some evidence would have surfaced by now. Sightings, some kind of suspicous fake ID gotten, someone coming forward, something.

Some people argue there has been no evidence that they didn't make it, but when you are looking for evidence in the bottom of the ocean, you are looking at a needle in a haystack type of situation.

But these guys if they made it to shore would have had to have gotten transportation, either gotten jobs or else relied on more criminal activity for money, had some means of support and there was NOTHING to indicate that. Even if they had help they would eventually have had to have found jobs or some way to support themselves.

In short, you would be far more likely to find evidence that they did make it rather than evidence they did.

Besides wasn't one body found?

Because of the freedom of information act the FBI files on this case were released. There is mention of a boat with all of it's lights off entering the bay and then leaving after a few minutes. Also, at the anglin brothers mothers funeral, two women (who were described as looking like men with wigs) showed up and left before family or the FBI could find out their identity.

I doubt it was them. Even with wigs on, family would be very likely to recognize them unless they had some sort of plastic surgery.

I also question the boat story, because it was night and a boat would have been hard to spot with no lights on. And from everything I've read they did not discover these guys gone till the next morning. How would they have known about a boat in the harbor the night before?

Im not clear, but it was a real boat in every sense of of the word, not a raft. Maybe radar or radio communication. However it works.

With this case there is (at least for me) to have 2 possible outcomes. There is evidence that the floating body was Frank Morris and the Anglin brothers survived.

Or, they all drowned and no trace was physically recovered.

Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I've always believed that if those three convicts somehow made it across the Bay, there's no way they would have been brought back to Alcatraz alive. If they were captured, I could see LE killing them and disposing of the bodies in order to maintain Alcatraz's reputation as an "inescapable" prison. I'm sure they didn't want other convicts making escape attempts if they believed escape was actually possible, and wanted to keep up the cover story that the escapees simply drowned before they made it to the mainland.

Of course, since Alcatraz wound up closing a year later, it all became a moot point anyway. However, if the phone call that John Anglin supposedly made to the attorney's office was actually legitimate, I always wondered what the context was. He was asking for a meeting with the U.S. Marshal office and I've pondered the idea that he may have been worried that his life was in danger and wanted to turn himself in peacefully.

Nat Geo says now they uncovered police documents stating a raft was found on Angel Island right after the escape (with feet prints walking away from it) and a 55 Chevy was stolen in the same time frame, and 3 men were the reported thieves that swiped it...

I am a law abiding person but I would have LOVED it had these guys escaped. I have been to Alcatraz as a tourist and let me tell you....the odds of them making it are slim. Those waters are rough.

The odds that one or all three of these career criminals made it across the Pacific Ocean alive only to live the next 30 plus years as law abiding citizens without any scrapes with the law, not to mention never being recognized, would have to be close to impossible. They never contacted any family members, etc. I think the bodies that the fisherman saw floating in the Ocean were the bodies of Morris and the Anglin's.

The odds that one or all three of these career criminals made it across the Pacific Ocean alive only to live the next 30 plus years as law abiding citizens without any scrapes with the law, not to mention never being recognized, would have to be close to impossible. They never contacted any family members, etc. I think the bodies that the fisherman saw floating in the Ocean were the bodies of Morris and the Anglin's.

I agree with you! I am sure they were fish food before the day was over....it is just the little part of me thinks it would be interesting if they had made it. But yes, those guys? Living a crime free life and never boasting about escaping? Highly unlikely.

So what do you make of the raft being found with feet prints walking away?

Also only one body was spotted - no proof it was any of the men

So what do you make of the raft being found with feet prints walking away?

Also only one body was spotted - no proof it was any of the men

None of the three have ever been spotted by ANYONE over the past 49 years. Don't you think these three criminals would want people to know that they in fact did beat The Rock if they indeed did?

So what do you make of the raft being found with feet prints walking away?

Also only one body was spotted - no proof it was any of the men

I'm wondering what to believe. On UM, it was stated that pieces of the raft were recovered by the search parties deployed to find the men. It appeared as though the raft had broken up at sea.

I've often wondered about this. Hypothetically speaking, say they were picked up by a boat. Would they have taken the raft or left it behind in the ocean? Leaving it behind so the searchers might find it adrift would be a good way to throw their pursuers off. The assumption would probably be that the convicts drowned.

None of the three have ever been spotted by ANYONE over the past 49 years. Don't you think these three criminals would want people to know that they in fact did beat The Rock if they indeed did?

I think the America's Most Wanted report on the story mentioned a few sightings, including one man who allegedly said he was one of the escapees.

I think the America's Most Wanted report on the story mentioned a few sightings, including one man who allegedly said he was one of the escapees.

Yes but none of the sightings ever amounted to anything. I personally think that because the raft was a makeshift one, made out of random prison materials, it began to take water and sink shortly after they made it into the water. Then I think they either died from hypothermia or drowned shortly after the raft sank.

Is this the board that stated a boat was reported to have briefly entered the Alcatraz area waters the night the men disappeared?

Park Service site states that escapees could have survived. https://www.facebook.com/alcatraz?fref=nf

Park Service site states that escapees could have survived. https://www.facebook.com/alcatraz?fref=nf
Yeah I saw that. And I also saw this theory supported on mythbusters as well who scientifically re-inacted it.

I've been to the rock and I have to say I'd HATE to try and float across those waters in a makeshift dinghy.

I believe it's entirely possible that these guys escaped with help and managed to fade into the background/Mexico/South America/wherever.

But I also think it's more likely that they're dead and at the bottom of the bay.

Park Service site states that escapees could have survived. https://www.facebook.com/alcatraz?fref=nf
Whoops...sorry, I didn't see this post. I created another thread on it!

Something I sometimes wonder about the escape is that Allan West, the only survivor claims to be the "mastermind" behind the escape but was it really him or one of the others??

Exactly why couldn't he escape? Something to do with his whole not being big enough on the day? Didn't he test it beforehand? For the "mastermind" of the escape he sure stuffed it up for himself.. I wonder lol

As noted earlier in the thread well...

Chances of inmates escaping successfully are slim.

Chances of them maintaining a trouble free life afterwards also slim.

When combined I'd put the chances of them having made it off the island and back into society undetected at less than 5%.

Personally I believe this is what happened...

The 3 got on their raft and started their journey. It soon became clear that 3 people was way too much for that make shift thing to carry. The Anglins being blood and brothers gave one another the nod and forced/pushed Morris off leaving him to the elements and an inevitable drowning death. Unfortunately for them though, even 2 was too many for that raft in those waters and eventually they too got taken by the waters and ended up drowned.

Unless one of these men come forward today I don't think this will ever be solved.

Is this the board that stated a boat was reported to have briefly entered the Alcatraz area waters the night the men disappeared?

I think the UM broadcast mentioned that it could have been a possibility that an inmate called Bumpy Johnson had set up a boat to pick them up, I believe that was according to West. (Going by memory here)

I think the UM broadcast mentioned that it could have been a possibility that an inmate called Bumpy Johnson had set up a boat to pick them up, I believe that was according to West. (Going by memory here)

I think this information was told to Don DeNevi by Clarence Carnes. West was questioned extensively after the escape and denied that the men had help from the outside. However, as one of the ex-cons said on UM "West wouldn't have copped out."

I'd love for them to have made it, but these guys were career criminals, and it's hard to imagine they'd never cause trouble again for the rest of their natural lives (unless, of course, they hitchhiked to Mexico and points south.)

However, I read on Wikipedia (so we're going to have to take this with a grain of salt) that relatives of the Anglins had received postcards for sometime afterwards written in the Anglins' handwriting. That's hard for any copycat to fake!

Even if Frank Morris drowned, and that was his body in the bay, there is no evidence anywhere that says the Anglins didn't make it. They were, after all, expert swimmers. According to the Personal Flotation Device Manufacturers' Association, an expert swimmer can survive up to six hours without a flotation device in 53-degree water. The hope that freedom was less than a mile away would have helped sustain them.

Just wishful thinking...

I defer to Mythbusters' Judgment on that case: it is possible that they made it, but the biggest evidence supporting the fact that they didn't, is the fact that none of them were ever heard from again.

Career criminals aren't going to simply vanish into thin air if they did in fact survive the escape. That's a pretty good indicator that they all died in the water that night.

I think the UM broadcast mentioned that it could have been a possibility that an inmate called Bumpy Johnson had set up a boat to pick them up, I believe that was according to West. (Going by memory here)

That to me has always been one of the more interesting facets of this case.

If there was a man at Alcatraz who could get these guys picked up by a boat and delivered to safety, it was Ellsworth 'Bumpy' Johnson.

Bumpy wasn't some two-bit hood or murderer. He was the king of Harlem, a crime boss who ran a vast and powerful criminal enterprise, on par with any other organized crime syndicate operating on the East coast.

He absolutely could've made something like that happen.

The question is, why would he want to?

The Alcatraz guards found it impossible that Bumpy could have known about the escape attempt, and thus, couldn't have known to bring a boat (even though a boat was spotted in the Alcatraz area starting at 1 AM on the night on the escape and didn't leave the area until 5 AM that morning.) Every piece of mail going in and out was read, every conversation in the visitors' area was monitored by guards, and inmates were not allowed to make phone calls.

Unless Morris found a way around that too, but I honestly don't know how.

I certainly won't applaud them if they did escape successfully but this is one of the most legendary UMs ever featured. I think it is 50/50 either way. Certainly if they were smart and tough enough to escape those cells they could have had the guts to swim/raft through the cold water. But it would be very difficult for even a good swimmer to make it through that if the raft failed. My question is what we're their fitness levels being in jail. They would have needed a lot of endurance to make that tough swim if the raft failed. The footprints leading away from the water and the phone call to the lawyer always make you wonder. And the fact that law enforcement never seems 100% sure.

It's trending on social media that family members claim proof that all three are still alive, but no link as I can't find the story in any news source that's not a rag (tabloid journal, Fox News, etc.)

Here is a link to it. I hope we find out more. At this point, it would definitely be interesting to get some closure to this long standing and world-famous saga.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/world-travel/relatives-have-proof-alcatraz-escapees-are-still-alive/story-e6frfqc9-1227564948412?utm_content=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=EditorialSF&utm_source=News.com.au&utm_medium=Facebook

Also a new program on H2 possibly similar to the UM experiments. http://www.history.com/shows/alcatraz-search-for-the-truth

wowzers!

just saw the History Channel special tonight. the whole episode i was watching completely expecting them to in the end either say "to this day things are inconclusive" or "this proof probably means the 2 died during the escape".

it actually went quite the contrary.

FBI facial recognition specialist while not 100% did believe with high odds that the picture of the 2 older men in Brazil was very likely the Anglin brothers. They ran some recognition tests and measurements and felt pretty good in determining they were the Anglins. That picture was taken in 1976 12 yrs after the escape.

For the longest time my own personal theory was that all 3 men were career criminals and it woulda been impossible for them to stay outa trouble after escape. I believe that a floating body that was seen by a passing ship soon after the escape was most like Frank Morris who was probably pushed off the make shift raft by the 2 brothers because the raft couldn't hold them all. After they pushed him off, they themselves probably didn't sustain much longer either and perished.

However, after watching tonights special, the escape route they talked about and how they probably latched on without detection to an outgoing staff boat and were picked up another boat (seen by witnesses) , and then seeing the photo study I'm really leaning towards that these guys made it.

If they can only obtain fingerprints from the purported individuals that will nail it. Butch Cassidy seems to be another who actually survived his supposed demise. They are in the extreme minority as far as such cases.

I'm interested to watch this episode.

Man, missed this show! I've always thought they made it. I wonder what may have happened to the third man.

I'm interested to watch this episode.

You can actually watch the episode on the history channel website

http://www.history.com/shows/alcatraz-search-for-the-truth

You can actually watch the episode on the history channel website

http://www.history.com/shows/alcatraz-search-for-the-truth

Thanks!

It was interesting to see the comparison of the picture of John Anglin.

Although its far from a DNA match, the forehead, brow line, hair line, etc all seemed very similar.

Saw the special last night. Now Fred Brizzi's widow says the part about him meeting the Anglin brothers in Brazil is not true because he never mentioned it to her, though she did remember that picture in the album!

So, is anybody on this? Seeing if the mountains pictured are indeed in Brazil or if anyone can identify where in fact they are?

I noticed no one mentioned the third man much, possibly because he may have also escaped and if they knew his whereabouts they did not want to indicate.

There is simply no way escape from Alcatraz is "impossible". Look at the achievements mankind has made in the last couple hundred years. We have gone into outer space, climbed Mount Everest, split atoms, amongst other things. I would regard all of these as being significantly harder than beating "the Rock".

However, I would agree that the fugitives would have needed help from the outside. Keep in mind, they were in the company of the most meticulous, sophisticated criminals in the country. Men of this caliber can be just as dangerous inside prison as on the outside. They very well could have arranged for a 'rescue' boat to pick them up in the harbor before drifting off into their freedom.

They mentioned the concept that they planned to rob someone for clothes and a vehicle once they were ashore, but that was probably a diversionary tactic to throw the authorities off their trail.

There is simply no way escape from Alcatraz is "impossible". Look at the achievements mankind has made in the last couple hundred years. We have gone into outer space, climbed Mount Everest, split atoms, amongst other things. I would regard all of these as being significantly harder than beating "the Rock".

However, I would agree that the fugitives would have pulled this off without help from the outside. Keep in mind, they were in the company of the most meticulous, sophisticated criminals in the country. Men of this caliber can be just as dangerous inside prison as on the outside. They very well could have arranged for a 'rescue' boat to pick them up in the harbor before drifting off into their freedom.
I think that could be one of the keys. certainly they had the planning and intelligence to accomplish the escape. and I disagree with the federal agent that said they did not account for the water. I think they certainly would have thought about it a great deal considering how much planning they put into the escape.

but what happened when they hit the water and did the raft hold up? if they had to swim a great distance it would have been very difficult. swimming in those elements and distance required while not impossible would take a lot of repetition and experience. a novice swimmer or casual swimmer would have no chance in those temperatures and currents. which could explain the alleged eye witness account that frank morris may have drowned.

For me the phone call to the SF attorney and the constant probing in the media by the FBI shows a great chance that the escape was successful.

I still think they made it. I believe they had some help on the outside. Between Allen West and Frank Morris I think they knew exactly what they were doing the Anglin's just went with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W7coNTryV0 Here's someone who claimed to be involved.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/alcatraz-inmates-survived-infamous-1962-escape-letter-suggests/


Apparently "John Anglin" wrote a letter in 2013 saying he was very sick with cancer and would turn himself in, in exchange for medical care. Interesting, if true.

This is getting media attention in Australia today as well.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/science/how-it-would-have-been-possible-for-the-three-alcatraz-escapees-to-survive-the-infamous-prison-break/news-story/05010c40614aedbf4de212e3231b616f (http://www.news.com.au/technology/science/how-it-would-have-been-possible-for-the-three-alcatraz-escapees-to-survive-the-infamous-prison-break/news-story/05010c40614aedbf4de212e3231b616f)

So did the FBI follow up on the letter and find the guy alleging to be John Anglin? I know they found fingerprints on the letter and comparison was inconclusive, but locating the old man would certainly prove whether or not it's him.

That's the question. Seems odd it's just left at that. I wouldn't be surprised if someone's pride used the inconclusive fingerprint match as an excuse to not try.

I don't think they made it.

That said, why would the FBI sit on this letter for 5 years especially knowing the age of the perps, and that one of them is saying they have cancer and may not live much longer? If the prints were inconclusive then that tells me there was a chance it was him. The only thing that this puts in my head is that the FBI wants it covered up that perhaps they made it out?

In a few days people will forget about this story and we wont get answers again. This is probably the last piece of possible real info on this case.

btw...

one of the first rules of law enforcement is you don't make public deals with criminals or fugitives. so its def possible that they said the evidence was inconclusive but in reality they knew it was him, and didn't want to either set precedent by making a deal with him, or be left embarrassed that they never caught a guy who lived to tell about it.

I agree....... I dont think they would admit it either way!!!

Saying what they did was the best thing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W7coNTryV0 Here's someone who claimed to be involved.

Interesting he claims that guards were paid to look the other way, I always have a hard time believing that prison guards didn't know what was going on. Those heads just don't look real believeable and I don't know how they could get something to resemble a body under the sheets that doesn't move all night whilst they planned their escape to fool the guards. Sounds suspicious to me.

I saw the UM Alcatraz special this past summer - for the first time. This is definitely the most comprehensive special/doc. I've seen on the escape. Extremely interesting segment, especially when they had the professional athlete/swimmer start off from Alcatraz & successfully swim to shore - all while being monitored, of course. Granted, he was in great physical shape and had trained for long distance swims; the swim was during the day with great visibility; and, he had people watching the whole time to make sure he was OK.

Conversely, the three convicts who "escaped" from Alcatraz were doing so at night when visibility was much less; there were three of them on a flimsy, makeshift raft that could easily have come apart at any time due to their combined weight & the sub-par raft; none of the three were professional swimmers; and, all had been in prison for a while - so were at less than peak physical condition.

So, I'm torn as to whether or not they survived & made it to shore that night. In the special, it was mentioned that the day?! after the escape, a sailor/crew member on a ship saw what looked like the body of one of them in the water (from a distance). Also, some of their papers/documents/belongings were found in the water. However, it's unclear if the person really saw a body. And, the belongings could have fallen in the water on the way - and they could still have made it to shore.

Side-note: I also enjoyed the 200X Mythbusters special that re-created the Escape - very interesting as well.

Also worth noting is the great 1979 film Escape from Alcatraz - starring Clint Eastwood. This implied that they did survive the escape, but of course was only a fictitious movie (though partially based on fact).

One thing that needs to be mentioned is that there was ONE luxury for prisoners on Alcatraz: HOT SHOWERS! Yep, they deliberately made sure the showers were nice and hot so that the prisoners wouldn't attempt to build resistance to cold via steeling themselves with cold showers on a constant basis before attempting any escape via water. So any attempt to replicate the feat would need to have the participants take nothing BUT hot showers for months before seeing if they could last in that rather chilly Bay water long enough to make it to shore!

Here's the flaw in any 'they escaped' argument.

Now, I won't disagree that there are some.. Questionable things that certainly make you raise an eyebrow and consider the possibility.. Things like the Anglin's mother getting birthday(?) cards and flowers every year.. The 'sightings' of them at a funeral.. Those things.

But, here's the killer of the 'made it alive' theory for me.

They were never found. These guys were all career criminals. Not good guys at all. And we're to believe that they escaped from Alcatraz and then kept their noses clean for 20,30 or more years? All three went straight?

Yeah.. Nope. That blows it all up for me.

But, here's the killer of the 'made it alive' theory for me.

They were never found. These guys were all career criminals. Not good guys at all. And we're to believe that they escaped from Alcatraz and then kept their noses clean for 20,30 or more years? All three went straight?

Yeah.. Nope. That blows it all up for me.

This is what does it for me as well. I think they planned it as best as they could, so everything about the plan points to them surviving being possible.

But they were in Alcatraz for a reason. It wasn't because of unpaid parking tickets, or a DUI. They were career criminals, and I don't believe all 3 could have lived crime free lives after that. All 3 drowned.

I think that the 3 men would have eventually flaunted their notoriety and fame had they been successful. I don't buy that they quietly disappeared into a ho-hum lifestyle.

I have read several books about life on the rock and a common theme is about one group getting one up on the other group. Whether it was cons attacking mean or vile guards or the bulls working over a mouthy convict.

I think there would have been more letters and postcards flaunting their escape. Anything to prove that they indeed beat the rock.

I think that the 3 men would have eventually flaunted their notoriety and fame had they been successful. I don't buy that they quietly disappeared into a ho-hum lifestyle.

I have read several books about life on the rock and a common theme is about one group getting one up on the other group. Whether it was cons attacking mean or vile guards or the bulls working over a mouthy convict.

I think there would have been more letters and postcards flaunting their escape. Anything to prove that they indeed beat the rock.




I have to disagree! these men spent 6 long months digging their way out with spoons, night after night! they went to extreme lengths of making dummy heads using toothpaste, hair from the barbers shop, they planned every single thing to last detail, 6 months digging with spoons! thats someone who shows an insane amount of patience, but not only that but discipline. people like that aren't going to let's say "show off" what they've done. and get themselves caught 2 days later.

And thats another thing, i think we'd be a little naive to assume that they didn't have some plan for when they reached the water, like i say they planned their escape to the very last detail, it was perfect, why would we assume that they'd just throw themselves to the waves? maybe they had someone waiting, but when you see the level of planning and detail they went into, that takes a real smart, dedicated, patient and disciplined person, somebody who'd have a plan to get across the bay and wouldn't be stupid enough to get himself caught later.

I have to disagree! these men spent 6 long months digging their way out with spoons, night after night! they went to extreme lengths of making dummy heads using toothpaste, hair from the barbers shop, they planned every single thing to last detail, 6 months digging with spoons! thats someone who shows an insane amount of patience, but not only that but discipline. people like that aren't going to let's say "show off" what they've done. and get themselves caught 2 days later.

And thats another thing, i think we'd be a little naive to assume that they didn't have some plan for when they reached the water, like i say they planned their escape to the very last detail, it was perfect, why would we assume that they'd just throw themselves to the waves? maybe they had someone waiting, but when you see the level of planning and detail they went into, that takes a real smart, dedicated, patient and disciplined person, somebody who'd have a plan to get across the bay and wouldn't be stupid enough to get himself caught later.

If they were that smart they wouldn't have been in Alcatraz in the first place.

And let's not forget that one of the people they brought in on their plan wasn't smart enough to dig his hole big enough to fit through.

So.. Yeah.. I don't necessarily think that this was the height of engineering that they pulled off or that the plan was necessarily brilliant. Credit where it's due. They got further than all but a handful of people.

I think that the 3 men would have eventually flaunted their notoriety and fame had they been successful. I don't buy that they quietly disappeared into a ho-hum lifestyle.

I have read several books about life on the rock and a common theme is about one group getting one up on the other group. Whether it was cons attacking mean or vile guards or the bulls working over a mouthy convict.

I think there would have been more letters and postcards flaunting their escape. Anything to prove that they indeed beat the rock.

They wouldn't have flaunted if they truly wanted to retain their freedom.

I believe they made it. Some criminals are really good at not being caught. The fact they could have all made it and started new lives and kept a pact of silence is not far fetched.

How many wanted UM fugitives still have not been captured? Wallace Thrasher comes to mind.

They wouldn't have flaunted if they truly wanted to retain their freedom.

I believe they made it. Some criminals are really good at not being caught. The fact they could have all made it and started new lives and kept a pact of silence is not far fetched.

How many wanted UM fugitives still have not been captured? Wallace Thrasher comes to mind.

Wallace Thrasher you can't hold up as an example, because there's no proof whether he's alive or not. The generally accepted theory now is that he did, indeed, die in the plane crash.. Even though the evidence that he did has flaws.

A better example for your theory would be.. I can't remember the name but the woman who killed someone in a DUI.. Let me find that. Gloria Schulze. That's a better example. We know that she's been alive within the past 15 years at least. That whore there.. that one is a case that ticks me off beyond belief.

Eric Rudolph is a good example as well, but.. He was caught.

How about the guy who lived in his ex-wife's basement for 20+ years or something that came out recently? Found his body buried in her backyard. There's one way you can do it, and that's what I've always assumed that Schulze has been doing.

Anyway.. I'm not trying to knock your belief that they made it. More power to you, there is enough out there that even makes me, someone who doesn't believe they made it, say that there's at least a chance.

But.. Let's not give too much credit to these folks. If they were so good at not getting caught.. They wouldn't have been caught the first time(Or the second, or the third in the case of Morris). And.. You're also getting THREE people to go straight and disappear without a trace, pending on whether you believe that the Anglins were showing up at funerals and sending birthday cards to their mother.

One person has a difficult time keeping a secret along with the most chance of success. But THREE?

One person has a difficult time keeping a secret along with the most chance of success. But THREE?



You talk about these guys as if they were high school girls trying to keep a secret about a prom dress! when your freedom depends on keeping your mouth shut, then you usually shut up. like i said before, these guys shown a huge amount of not only patience digging with spoons, they shown a huge amount of discipline, 6 months digging why didn't they brag about their plan around alcatraz? and in doing so get themselves caught? why only blab on the outside?


you're missing the obvious what show are we talking about? unsolved mysteries, 85% of the cases were someone has murdered someone, kidnapped someone, robbed a bank, done some fraud and then gone on the run. that was 85% of the show, if it was normal practice for wanted felons to brag about their freedom, then we wouldn't need this show. it's not common for people to do what you're saying!

I find it more believable that a shark ate them in the bay, than they would have bragged about escaping alcatraz.

I agree with you, Bigted. So let's just assume that they DID in fact make it out of the bay; I have seen no evidence that they actually did keep their noses clean all those years after. If they were not in America (strong rumor has it that they were in S. America, cannot remember if it was Chile or someplace else), they could have continued participating in crime and either it wasn't reported or we haven't heard about it. Just because we haven't heard about crimes committed by these guys after the fact, doesn't mean they didn't make it. We can speculate all day long about how they should have or might have behaved in hiding; we are not them so we cannot say 100% what they would have done, one way or the other. We just don't know.

You talk about these guys as if they were high school girls trying to keep a secret about a prom dress! when your freedom depends on keeping your mouth shut, then you usually shut up. like i said before, these guys shown a huge amount of not only patience digging with spoons, they shown a huge amount of discipline, 6 months digging why didn't they brag about their plan around alcatraz? and in doing so get themselves caught? why only blab on the outside?


you're missing the obvious what show are we talking about? unsolved mysteries, 85% of the cases were someone has murdered someone, kidnapped someone, robbed a bank, done some fraud and then gone on the run. that was 85% of the show, if it was normal practice for wanted felons to brag about their freedom, then we wouldn't need this show. it's not common for people to do what you're saying!

I find it more believable that a shark ate them in the bay, than they would have bragged about escaping alcatraz.

I completely agree!

These men went through a hell of a lot to get freedom so if it came to fruition I am sure they were not about to risk it all for bragging rights.

Its very likely they were able to easily start new lives. This was during a time where computers were not monitoring a persons every move. They could have created new identities with drivers licenses and passports and stayed under the radar.

I kept up with the FBI info that was released years ago. I like how the remaining survivor allegedly sent a letter to let the law know they all made it out LOL.

This entire thing would make a hell of a movie..like a good 3 hours film.

they could have continued participating in crime and either it wasn't reported or we haven't heard about it. Just because we haven't heard about crimes committed by these guys after the fact, doesn't mean they didn't make it. We can speculate all day long about how they should have or might have behaved in hiding; we are not them so we cannot say 100% what they would have done, one way or the other. We just don't know.


Alcatraz must have been a hell hole, so many people say they would have gone back to crime, maybe, but even working on some farm in argentina surely would have been better than spending day after day in some tiny cell waiting to die. or doing 25 years there.

i think they way they managed to get out of alcatraz, the planning that went into it, 6 months digging with spoons, hair from the barber shop, taking the concerete dust from the holes they dug to make the masks! that shows that they were dedicated, patiente, smart and most of all disciplined.

I think that would have meant they had a plan for when they got to the water, maybe someone was waiting for them with a boat, i dunno, i'm not 100% sure they made it, but the planning that took place on the inside makes you think they had just a good plan for the outside.

There was one prisoner who I believe made it to shore at the base of the Golden Gate Bridge in an escape attempt years before the Morris and Anglin escape, and he was frozen to near death. He survived only because someone found him on the rocks and he was immediately hospitalized. If they made to shore they likely would have been in a similar condition. Without immediately emergency care they wouldn’t have survived.

The professional swimmer who swam from Alvarez to the shore on the segment swam a quicker route to the shore and did so during the day. Plus Morris and the Anglins weren’t Olympic swimmers who trained for this. It was their intent to use a raft that obviously fell apart fairly quickly. They were not at all prepared to swim to shore. Even more important is there was a strong tide that would have easily overpowered them. The professional swimmer on the show had none of that to deal with.

The evidence is overwhelming that they were in a dire situation once in the water. There was never a siting of them in the public whatsoever. There is really so basis to believe they made it to shore.

There was one prisoner who I believe made it to shore at the base of the Golden Gate Bridge in an escape attempt years before the Morris and Anglin escape, and he was frozen to near death. He survived only because someone found him on the rocks and he was immediately hospitalized. If they made to shore they likely would have been in a similar condition. Without immediately emergency care they wouldn’t have survived.

The professional swimmer who swam from Alvarez to the shore on the segment swam a quicker route to the shore and did so during the day. Plus Morris and the Anglins weren’t Olympic swimmers who trained for this. It was their intent to use a raft that obviously fell apart fairly quickly. They were not at all prepared to swim to shore. Even more important is there was a strong tide that would have easily overpowered them. The professional swimmer on the show had none of that to deal with.

The evidence is overwhelming that they were in a dire situation once in the water. There was never a siting of them in the public whatsoever. There is really so basis to believe they made it to shore.





There is a basis to believe that they made it, Most people believe they actually went to angel island that night, there was a window every night about 11pm which would have made their crossing easy due to the tide, FBI files show that their raft was found there and there were "footprints leading away from it" an oar was found placed against a tree.

The sanfran bridge is and was a hotspot for suicide jumpers, the whole area, the chief of police said at the time "it's never heard of that the body doesn't wash up somewhere" we're talking about 3 bodies.

A car was stolen at 6am that morning, a 56 chevy, not long after a man reported being run off the road by 3 men in the same car.


Since then the families have recieved letters, christmas and birthday cards, an FBI agent said a picture of 2 men on a farm in argentina was "more than likely them" the handwriting is theirs, they just can't verify when they were sent. the head of the rangers who took over the case in the late 60s said "they probably made it"

I think it's safe to say that on many levels the government wanted a close and shut case because an unescapble prison was escaped from, i'm not 100% sure they made it, but to say theres no basis for it? naaaa there is!

There is a basis to believe that they made it, Most people believe they actually went to angel island that night, there was a window every night about 11pm which would have made their crossing easy due to the tide, FBI files show that their raft was found there and there were "footprints leading away from it" an oar was found placed against a tree.

The sanfran bridge is and was a hotspot for suicide jumpers, the whole area, the chief of police said at the time "it's never heard of that the body doesn't wash up somewhere" we're talking about 3 bodies.

A car was stolen at 6am that morning, a 56 chevy, not long after a man reported being run off the road by 3 men in the same car.


Since then the families have recieved letters, christmas and birthday cards, an FBI agent said a picture of 2 men on a farm in argentina was "more than likely them" the handwriting is theirs, they just can't verify when they were sent. the head of the rangers who took over the case in the late 60s said "they probably made it"

I think it's safe to say that on many levels the government wanted a close and shut case because an unescapble prison was escaped from, i'm not 100% sure they made it, but to say theres no basis for it? naaaa there is!

Hoaxes, innuendo and hearsay are not proof. Until there is forensic proof that they survived, or something equally concrete, the evidence remains solely on the side that they did not make it to shore. There is plenty of reason for someone to publicly assert they survived for publicity. I take those statements with a grain of salt until I see something to back up those baseless claims.