This is my first post so forgive me if this has been covered before. What do you think happened to these two girls?

On December 29th 1999, Ashley Freeman celebrated her 16th birthday at her mobile home in Vinita, Oklahoma with her friend Lauria Bible and her boyfriend, Jeremy Hurst. Jeremy left around 9:30pm. Lauria spent the night. Around 5:30am, someone noticed flames at the mobile home and called police. When they arrived the Freeman mobile home was completely burnt. Authorities found the body of Ashley's mother, Kathy Freeman with a gunshot wound to the head. This led them to speculate that Kathy's husband, Danny Freeman, had killed her and abducted both girls.
The next day, however, Lauria Bible's mother Lorene, searched the burnt home and discovered the body of Danny Freeman. How could the authorities have missed this? Dwayne Vancil, Danny's brother, believes that the Sheriff's department contracted out the killing, and abducted the girls to make the murders look like something they were not. For months, it had been rumored in Vinita that the Craig County Sheriff's Department had been feuding with the Freemans. It began when Danny's son, Shane, was shot and killed by a deputy after he had stolen a truck and a neighbor's gun. Although Shane's killing was ruled justifiable, the Freeman's threatened to file a wrongful death lawsuit against the Sheriff's Department. According to some, the Freeman's accusations provoked deputies to intimidate the family. But the sheriff's department has denied any involvement in the incident. Others wonder if Danny was killed over drugs and the girls were abducted by the murderers. A $50,000 reward has turned up few leads.

Honestly, I believe that the Sheriffs County was responsible or hired someone to do it.

I think they made it look like that the Father was not in the house to make it look like he killed his wife and kidnapped the girls. That would make him out to look really bad and give no credit to him with his accusations about the sheriff. There is just no way they did not realize this man was in the burnt out remains of the house, especially since Mrs. Bible found him just by looking over the burnt out remains of the house. How can a non-pro see something that a whole group of pro's supposedly did not see. Just does not jive in my book and i have never heard of such a thing.

I think they took the two girls and killed them at a different spot.

So this case just baffles me. I wonder what could have happened to these 2 girls.

People just don't vanish like that.

Does anyone think that maybe the girls were burnt so bad that they couldn't be found?

Or is everyone agreeing that they were abducted and murdered later?

Whatever happened... this is a sad case.

So this case just baffles me. I wonder what could have happened to these 2 girls.

People just don't vanish like that.

Does anyone think that maybe the girls were burnt so bad that they couldn't be found?

Or is everyone agreeing that they were abducted and murdered later?

Whatever happened... this is a sad case.

Here's Lauria's Charley Project page and it gives a lot of info and some theories as to what may have happened to them:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/bible_lauria.html

I wonder if it was true that the father was involved with the drug trade.

I wonder how deep he was involved.

Here's Lauria's Charley Project page and it gives a lot of info and some theories as to what may have happened to them:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/bible_lauria.html


I just read that whole page. I have say that its very interesting.

What I don't understand is this...

Lorene Bible, Lauria's mother, said that Kathy Freeman, Ashley's mother, took the girls to the Pizza Hut in Vinita, Oklahoma during the evening. Lorene's statement contradicts authorities' belief that Kathy and the girls visited Big Bill's Barbeque in the 350 block of North Wilson Street in Vinita, Oklahoma.

What does that mean? Does it really matter where they went to eat? Do they think they somehow came into contact with someone who would follow them home and kill them?

Why do the police think that they ate at Big Bill's BBQ?

Can anyone make sense of this?

Wow there is a LOT of information within that Charley Project overview. So many killings, leads, and investigations within this one Missing children case. Their brother was shot and killed by the cops, DeAnna Dorsey was shot and killed, her potential killer was also shot and killed. Two other suspects both claimed they killed the girls and buried their bodies. The cops are suspects because they killed the brother. The father was involved in a drug ring. And the bodies are still not found.

How could so much potential information spring up in such a remote area? Information overload.

I had to revive this thread after watching the case. I must say, the whole idea that the girls shot their parents, burned their house down, and fled is simply absurd. Ashley Freeman left her wallet, and license at the house. So, she went on the road without her license? Again, just absurd.

I doubt the police were involved in these murders. What would they gain from killing the Freemans? Free land? To add to that, the police would probably leave no trace of evidence had they committed the crime. Whoever Danny Freeman was involved(drug dealers likely) with at the time; they were the ones who killed the Freemans, and abducted the two girls. Unfortunately, I doubt either girl is alive.

Anyone else think since they did such a bang-up job of searching for bodies the first time, that Lauria and Ashley's remains are still at or near the scene somewhere? I'm not ruling it out.

Anyone else think since they did such a bang-up job of searching for bodies the first time, that Lauria and Ashley's remains are still at or near the scene somewhere? I'm not ruling it out.

I don't think so, but only because the mother was found in such good condition that the coroner issued a time of death as 5:00am that day. (Otherwise, I wouldn't trust those dumbass podunkers to search my dog for fleas. I can't believe that they knew they had four possible victims, yet found one body and stopped looking.)

Also, when Mr. and Mrs. Bible found Mr. Freeman's body, they were able to determine right away that it was male, and they're not trained in any way to identify bodies. Gross info: (Remember, the entire top of his head, from the jaw upward was missing, so there was no way to ID him by recognizing his face.) He was also so well intact that the coroner noted a broken collar bone, likely suffered before the fatal gunshot wound.

I'm guessing that after finding the remains of Mr. Freeman, the Bibles would have either insisted the property be completely searched, or they would have actually looked for the girls themselves.

And I'm going to say some more gross and disgusting stuff here: When a body is incinerated in a fire, usually large amounts of identifiable bone will still be left behind, even if all the flesh and organs are gone. Crematories have to grind up the bones after they cremate a body for the end result to become the powderish cremains. There have been several murderers who have disposed of their victims by setting fire to the body, but it had to burn for more than a day, then they ground the remaining bones and scattered them.

I also noticed that there's a discrepancy between the Charley Project page and the UM segment. Charley project says that Mr. Bible found the body, and the UM segment shows and talks about Mrs. Bible discovering the body. One of them goofed up a kind of important part of the case, Who Discovered the Body?

I wonder if it was true that the father was involved with the drug trade.

I wonder how deep he was involved.

Mastermind, I know you asked this question a year ago, but I'm thinking that if Mr. Freeman was selling drugs, he was probably just a small time dealer selling to a few locals and that was it.

I don't think he could have been in very deeply because of his lifestyle. They didn't even have running water at their trailer home and his wife and daughter had to stop at his mother in law's house that night to pick up water for the family's use.

So that means that they didn't even have enough money for a well. Not even an old hand pump well out in the yard.

They did have a phone and electricity. They heated the house with a woodstove instead of a furnace, but that's not uncommon for country folks. But not having water is weird, imo.

Mastermind, I know you asked this question a year ago, but I'm thinking that if Mr. Freeman was selling drugs, he was probably just a small time dealer selling to a few locals and that was it.

I don't think he could have been in very deeply because of his lifestyle. They didn't even have running water at their trailer home and his wife and daughter had to stop at his mother in law's house that night to pick up water for the family's use.

So that means that they didn't even have enough money for a well. Not even an old hand pump well out in the yard.

They did have a phone and electricity. They heated the house with a woodstove instead of a furnace, but that's not uncommon for country folks. But not having water is weird, imo.That's quite true, someone involved in drug dealing would probably have a more lavish lifestyle. But it begs the question, who would want to kill the Freemans, and abduct the girls? Neither the police, or drug dealers seem likely at this point.

I get this eerie feeling that someone was infatuated by one of the girls and they were the true target of a rapist and killing the others was incidental to him abducting the girls similar to that parolee child rapist creep up north (Joseph Edward Duncan III) that abducted those 2 kids after taking out the family. If it was about drugs, they probably wouldn't abduct the girls unless it was a Mexican drug gang that took them into sexual slavery. I don't think the police would hit a whole family like this if they wanted to just get the father, no matter how corrupt they are. Or maybe I'm wrong and the girls' abduction was just a smokescreen to the killing of the father. This one has too many dimensions to it and until the girls are found or the perpetrators talk, we'll probably never know for sure.

Anyone else think since they did such a bang-up job of searching for bodies the first time, that Lauria and Ashley's remains are still at or near the scene somewhere? I'm not ruling it out.

I kind of something like that could have happened.

Mastermind, I know you asked this question a year ago, but I'm thinking that if Mr. Freeman was selling drugs, he was probably just a small time dealer selling to a few locals and that was it.

I don't think he could have been in very deeply because of his lifestyle. They didn't even have running water at their trailer home and his wife and daughter had to stop at his mother in law's house that night to pick up water for the family's use.

Even if Mr. Freeman was small time, drug dealers tend to be intolerant of any competition in the area regardless of their size. They would squash or send a message to a small time dealer just as a warning to others who invade their territory. Also keep in mind that small drug dealers can become large ones very quickly.

In small towns like that one, it is very common for the police to be in bed with the drug dealers.

I don't think he could have been in very deeply because of his lifestyle. They didn't even have running water at their trailer home and his wife and daughter had to stop at his mother in law's house that night to pick up water for the family's use

Some of the worst drug hustlers in Detroit still live in projects with no electricity and still live off footstamps.

Your right, though. If Mr Freeman was a drug dealer, he was low level.
I get this eerie feeling that someone was infatuated by one of the girls and they were the true target of a rapist and killing the others was incidental to him abducting the girls similar to that parolee child rapist creep up north (Joseph Edward Duncan III) that abducted those 2 kids after taking out the family.

Possible. But If that's true it would have to be Ashley Freeman he was infatuated with since it was the Freemans trailer.

I get this eerie feeling that someone was infatuated by one of the girls and they were the true target of a rapist and killing the others was incidental to him abducting the girls similar to that parolee child rapist creep up north (Joseph Edward Duncan III) that abducted those 2 kids after taking out the family. If it was about drugs, they probably wouldn't abduct the girls unless it was a Mexican drug gang that took them into sexual slavery. I don't think the police would hit a whole family like this if they wanted to just get the father, no matter how corrupt they are. Or maybe I'm wrong and the girls' abduction was just a smokescreen to the killing of the father. This one has too many dimensions to it and until the girls are found or the perpetrators talk, we'll probably never know for sure.That's possible, since both the girls have yet to be found. On the other hand, that would have to be one sloppy rapist. Most rapists tend to ambush their intended victims. Also, going inside a trailer without knowing if someone has a gun inside seems risky. Whoever killed the Freemans, and abducted the girls; it must have been the work of a group rather than one individual.

For the case, I'd like to know more about that guy in the car who Danny Freeman felt uneasy around. Perhaps Danny Freeman thought the guy was going to do something to him? Danny Freeman's connections holds all the clues to this case, imo.

That's quite true, someone involved in drug dealing would probably have a more lavish lifestyle. But it begs the question, who would want to kill the Freemans, and abduct the girls? Neither the police, or drug dealers seem likely at this point.

At least two people have sort of confessed.

Notorious serial killer Tommy Lynn Sells has claimed responsibility, saying he was traveling nearby on the night of the crime, but said he was on drugs a lot doesn't remember too many details. He's committed at least one similar crime among his many other extremely violent crimes.

Jeremy Brian Jones confessed and then recanted. He had been released from prison at 10:30 pm on the night of the murders/abductions and was in the area. In one of his previous crimes, he shot a woman to death and then set her on fire. He left the area just weeks after the Bible/Freeman murders.

That's possible, since both the girls have yet to be found. On the other hand, that would have to be one sloppy rapist. Most rapists tend to ambush their intended victims. Also, going inside a trailer without knowing if someone has a gun inside seems risky. Whoever killed the Freemans, and abducted the girls; it must have been the work of a group rather than one individual.

Wasn't it known that the Freemans had a good collection of guns in the house and hunted their own food? If the crime was commited by someone who knew them, they'd have to know that they kept guns in the house.

That's taking some serious chances, going into that house knowing that the whole family, and even the 16 year old girl, has practically an expert knowledge of firearms.

Whether the perps knew them or not, they must have waited until everyone was asleep before breaking in. Possibly Mr. Freeman's broken collar bone happened when he jumped up going for his gun. Maybe he was hit across the collar bone with a shotgun, which knocked him backwards, then he was shot in the head? I guess it's possible.

I wonder how isolated this home was and if they had any nearby neighbors. It seems like if the police had a bone to pick with this family, there might not have been a proper and thorough investigation like there should have been.

I wonder how isolated this home was and if they had any nearby neighbors. It seems like if the police had a bone to pick with this family, there might not have been a proper and thorough investigation like there should have been.

Totally guessing, but I think it was somewhat rural because the fire was called in by a passing motorist, rather than a nearby neighbor. I think the fire was reported about 6:00 or 6:30 am, so maybe that person was driving by on their way to work or something? The coroner ruled Mrs. Freeman's time of death by gun shot as 5:00 am, so the fire hadn't been going on for too very long by the time it was noticed.

Oh, so it had to have all happened when everyone was in bed already. That explains why they weren't able to get to their guns and I bet there was more than one assailant involved to subdue everyone. But it could have been one individual if he were carrying more than one weapon.

This case strikes me as similar to the Joseph Duncan case that synthisislab mentioned. He slaughtered the entire family to facilitate his kidnapping of the two children. And, as far as I recall, he did it all on his own, so it's certainly possible that this could have been committed by a single perpetrator. The fact that they had guns in the home doesn't really change that. If the perp came in took control of the girls first, he could have gotten the parents to comply by making threats to shoot one of the girls if they didn't.

I don't think drug dealers would bother with kidnapping the girls, rather than just killing them at the scene, but it's not impossible. I don't think the police would have been involved at all, unless it involved some corrupt officer(s) who were in bed with his drug-dealing rivals.
To add to that, the police would probably leave no trace of evidence had they committed the crime.
I disagree with this. Police officers who commit crimes leave trace evidence all the time. Even if someone is knowledgeable about trace evidence and therefore takes precautions not to leave any, it's not something you can completely control. That's why it trips people up so often. You can't control if a hair or fiber is left from your body or clothing; you can't prevent any skin cells from being shed; you can't prevent leaving your blood at the scene if you get into an altercation, etc.

Totally guessing, but I think it was somewhat rural because the fire was called in by a passing motorist, rather than a nearby neighbor. I think the fire was reported about 6:00 or 6:30 am, so maybe that person was driving by on their way to work or something? The coroner ruled Mrs. Freeman's time of death by gun shot as 5:00 am, so the fire hadn't been going on for too very long by the time it was noticed.

I wondered too about the family having neighbors. The reenactment made it seem like there were no nearby neighbors which is pretty true in a lot of rural areas.

I have nothing to contribute to this discussion right now, except that browneyes106's avatar is awesome.

I disagree with this. Police officers who commit crimes leave trace evidence all the time. Even if someone is knowledgeable about trace evidence and therefore takes precautions not to leave any, it's not something you can completely control. That's why it trips people up so often. You can't control if a hair or fiber is left from your body or clothing; you can't prevent any skin cells from being shed; you can't prevent leaving your blood at the scene if you get into an altercation, etc.

True, but police can also make evidence disappear as well. A sample of hair found at the seen disappears at evidence control for some reason. A freezer that has DNA and blood samples is unplugged for some reason.

Just cause there's evidence at the scene doesn;t mean they have to collect it, either. They can simply ignore it and let it be washed away.

If police higher ups are aware that one of their own has commited a crime, there more likely to see the case disappear rather than bring shame on the department. A high ranking police official just merely has to order someone to throw away evidence and it is done without question.

Keep in mind also that this is a Sherriff's department. Sherrif's even though they are elected are practically dictators in their counties. They are wrought with corruption and have less of the resources of a big city police department.

also keep in mind that it is the lead detective on the scene that decides what evidence gets collected or recorded. The detective is the dictator of the crime scene. If he doesn;t want blood samples to be taken, blood samples aren;t taken. If he wants fibers to be ignored, their ignored. It;s the detective that decides what is important evidence.

Keep in mind also that this is a Sherriff's department. Sherrif's even though they are elected are practically dictators in their counties. They are wrought with corruption and have less of the resources of a big city police department.

Your quote goes perfect with the country-like guitar music that was played during the segment, when they showed the Sheriff's emblem on a squad car.

Originally Posted by Mastermind
Keep in mind also that this is a Sherriff's department. Sherrif's even though they are elected are practically dictators in their counties. They are wrought with corruption and have less of the resources of a big city police department.


Your quote goes perfect with the country-like guitar music that was played during the segment, when they showed the Sheriff's emblem on a squad car.

Sorry if you feel that way. Sorry if i offended.

Actually this has nothing to do with the south or rural areas. It has to do with the whole position of Sheriff which also encompasses Los Angeles County and Maricopa Counties Sheriffs who wield dictator like power in their jurisdiction. I live in Connecticut and that state abolished Sheriffs for several reasons. One was that these sheriffs were so succeptable to corruption being directly elected officials.

Personally i think Sherrifs departments should be abolished in the US except where absolutely necessary. I mean seriously, what did NY city need a sheriff for? It;s an old archaic system.

There is a vast difference in the structure of a sheriff's department and a city. It is very easy for a drug dealer to wage influence in a small time police department and sherriffs office

Look at what happened to Robert Hammerick and Sam Catron. I can;t imagine those incidents happening in Chicago or Memphis.

BTW, I actually live in a small town and way prefer it to city living. :D

Sorry if you feel that way. Sorry if i offended.

I'm not offended at all, I don't live in a rural area. Actually I thought that part of the segment was kind of funny.

I understand that, if the police were involved, it is possible that they could have intentionally not collected or "lost" evidence, but to say that, if the police were involved, there probably would not have been trace evidence at the scene is still a real stretch.

This still looks to me like the act of a sexual predator a la the Groene kindappings/murders perpetrated by Joseph Duncan. I understand why the family might believe that the police were involved, and I don't think that's an impossibility, but a sexual motivation seems more likely to me.

I read on the charley project that Tommy Lynn Sells says he may be involved, that is a very good possibility, that whole thing seems right up that guy's alley

First I gotta say I'm basing my judgement on the UM segment I saw and I apologize if there are any misintepretation of facts on my part.

It seems oddly suspicious to me that the coverage of the boyfriend who was at the party was so vague.

I wonder why didnt the authorities not consider the boyfriend to be a suspect at all !!


I dont understand why everybody naturally assumed the boyfriend said when he left the party at 9.30pm, everything seemed well, so what happened to the Freemans and Lauria Bible had to be between 9.30 and midnight.

Dont tell me everyone believed the boyfriend's story just because he said so ?!


If people could be extreme to the extent into thinking that the sheriff's dept could be involved in the homicides, then why leave out the boyfriend, who as we know, is the official last person to see the Freemans and Lauria Bible alive !!


Why was the boyfriend not interviewed in the UM segment? As the last person to see the Freemans alive, his statements will prove critical in the investigation.

Yes, I definitely don't think they're alive and were probably killed within a day or two (if not hours) after Ashley's parents were shot and the place was set ablaze.

I, too, had kind of overlooked the boyfriend without questioning his story.

So, the murderer(s) could be:

-the boyfriend (maybe an accomplice as well)
-drug dealers with ties to Danny Freeman
-members of the local county sherrif's dept. whom had been feuding with Mr. Freeman and threatening him after the son was killed in an altercation with officers from said dept.

First I gotta say I'm basing my judgement on the UM segment I saw and I apologize if there are any misintepretation of facts on my part.

It seems oddly suspicious to me that the coverage of the boyfriend who was at the party was so vague.

I wonder why didnt the authorities not consider the boyfriend to be a suspect at all !!

I dont understand why everybody naturally assumed the boyfriend said when he left the party at 9.30pm, everything seemed well, so what happened to the Freemans and Lauria Bible had to be between 9.30 and midnight.

Dont tell me everyone believed the boyfriend's story just because he said so ?!

If people could be extreme to the extent into thinking that the sheriff's dept could be involved in the homicides, then why leave out the boyfriend, who as we know, is the official last person to see the Freemans and Lauria Bible alive !!

Why was the boyfriend not interviewed in the UM segment? As the last person to see the Freemans alive, his statements will prove critical in the investigation.

Hmmmmm, curiously enough, the profile on this case on the UM website has removed all mention of the boyfriend. I'd like to think this is because LE investigated him thoroughly and cleared him as a suspect, but these are the same cops that somehow overlooked an entire dead body at a crime scene, (which was subsequently discovered by the parents in five minutes) so my faith in their competence isn't exactly high.

That said, assuming the boyfriend was a teenager, burning down a trailer, murdering two adults and making two girls disappear would be pretty a massive task for someone his age to pull off by himself.

Tommy Lynn Sells confessed to this crime. Whether or not he actually did it is up for debate since he claimed he was high on drugs during the murders and cannot remember specific details. Whether or not he did it, I still think both girls were removed from the house and killed shortly afterwards.

I just re-watched this case (it's available on the forbidden site under its DVD name, "Trailer Terror"). To me, this is one of the most compelling and heartbreaking cases from the Lifetime era of UM--and one that is made all the more poignant by the noticeably-weak voice of Robert Stack, who was by then 82 and nearing the end of his life (though he still looked healthy when he appeared on-camera).

So whodunit? Though the many theories presented in the segment are all plausible to some extent or another, I've always felt that the Freeman family and Lauria were victims of a drug dealer who was irritated by Danny's alleged dealing. It's pretty well-established that drug dealers are very territorial and can be violent, and although drug activity is stereotypically associated with urban areas, it's rampant in small-town and rural America as well. It seems perfectly logical that a dealer would decide to rub out his competition and light a fire to destroy the evidence. Sadly, I believe that Ashley and Lauria were kidnapped and probably killed shortly thereafter.

A big deal was made in the segment about how Danny Freeman's body went undiscovered by the police until a day later, when it was found by one of Lauria's parents (there seems to be disagreement on which parent actually discovered the body, though I doubt that matters much), but I think that was the result of a shoddy investigation more than anything else. Bear in mind that this took place in Craig County, Oklahoma, which is home to only about 15,000 people spread out over 763 square miles. In an area that sparsely-populated, it's unlikely that the police presence has an over-abundance of manpower, training, and equipment. In addition, it seems that the department conducted its investigation through the lens of an incorrect hypothesis--that Danny Freeman murdered his wife and kidnapped the girls--which could explain why they didn't search the scene as thoroughly as they should have done. I never bought the idea that Danny Freeman was murdered elsewhere and his body returned to the scene after the fact. That argument smacks of a police department's attempt to cover its own ass, and seems utterly absurd...why would a perp put himself at great risk of being caught by returning to the crime scene, and why would he return only one body to said scene while two others remained missing?

Finally, though I believe the Craig County investigators bungled the search, I don't believe that they were involved in the killings/kidnappings/fire. Had that been the case, I highly doubt they would have been so quick to turn the case over to the state of Oklahoma.

Sadly, unless Ashley and Lauria are found and/or someone starts talking, we'll probably never know what truly happened on that tragic night in the Freemans' trailer. I've always felt especially badly for the Bible family, since they likely lost a daughter in one of the most senseless scenarios of them all: being in the wrong place at the wrong time. :(

I have a problem with the discovery of Danny Freeman's body after the original police search. Now, human error is always a sound and practical reasoning, but given even the most basic forensic training, if the body was where it was said to have been found in the fire(and human remains were what the original search was looking for), one would easily assume if the body was there all along, a cursory search would've turned him up. I find this hinky as hell.

Not to say I necessarily ascribe to this belief, however the idea of Danny Freeman being murdered AFTER the original crime/arson and then planted afterwards is not outside my realm of possibility, especially given the innuendo given with regards to drug deals and the PD issues.

Anyone have any idea the exact location of the trailer, so the vincinity of neighbors can be known? The land is probably sill barren now.
I believe the true culprit is still unknown but I think it's is someone local who knew the Freeman's and the layout of their house and firearms. Some in the local area must know something.

I would suspect the boyfriend was cleared. It is kind of funny we all take his word at face value though, and to be honest he is probably just the luckiest SOB in the history of UM. But I would have liked to have seen him interviewed. You would think there would be something he could have picked up on, especially looking back in hindsight.

But I tend to believe the boyfriend. Ashley was 16. Her boyfriend hung around until 9pm he says. Danny might have been a drug dealer but I'll bet dollars to donuts he doesn't want a horny teenager hanging around his daughter much later than that, so I buy the story.

I also believe the boyfriend was innocent mostly beacause of the fact that he was only 16 at the time. He does have the best insight into the family and Ashley so he may know something that he may not even realize that can help this case. Hope he is doing good now, going through all that at only 16.

I believe the creeper (can't remember his name) said in an article that he did infact kill the girls. He said after setting the place on fire he told the girls to hop in his Car. Sadly in a state of shock they probably did. He then drove them to what I believe was an old Mine and killed them both one after the other. He probably just can't remember where he buried them... The scumbag. It's so sad because (I think) Ashley's Father said he would give anything to find the girls and take them in and raise them as his own daughters. He seems like such a nice guy. He and his Wife deserve closure.

I believe the creeper (can't remember his name) said in an article that he did infact kill the girls. He said after setting the place on fire he told the girls to hop in his Car. Sadly in a state of shock they probably did. He then drove them to what I believe was an old Mine and killed them both one after the other. He probably just can't remember where he buried them... The scumbag. It's so sad because (I think) Ashley's Father said he would give anything to find the girls and take them in and raise them as his own daughters. He seems like such a nice guy. He and his Wife deserve closure.

Yes "the creeper" did confess but (correct me if I'm wrong) this confession was found to be inconsitant with the crime and, it was found he was arrested at 5am the morning of the fire for public intoxication making it very unlikely he could of committed the crime.

Hrmm... Didn't know he was arrested for being drunk at 5 a.m. I guess that leaves the fact that whoever set the fire and took the girls is still out there. I don't think this one will ever be solved sadly.

Hmmmmm, curiously enough, the profile on this case on the UM website has removed all mention of the boyfriend. I'd like to think this is because LE investigated him thoroughly and cleared him as a suspect, but these are the same cops that somehow overlooked an entire dead body at a crime scene, (which was subsequently discovered by the parents in five minutes) so my faith in their competence isn't exactly high.

That said, assuming the boyfriend was a teenager, burning down a trailer, murdering two adults and making two girls disappear would be pretty a massive task for someone his age to pull off by himself.


If the segment was making everybody in the story potential suspects including the girls themselves, I see no reason why the boyfriend is left out.

Besides, this crime was hard to pull off by anybody alone regardless what age they are.

It is apparent that there had to be more than one perpetuator. For someone to kill the parents, hold the girls at gunpoint while setting fire to the trailer, and then kidnapping not 1, but 2 of them in a vehicle, driving them to another location where they met their ultimate fate. You definitely need more than one person to accomplish all that, no doubt about it.

However, just because the boyfriend was a teenager at the time does not discount the possibility he could have committed this crime. He could have had his friends or even the girls could be his accomplices !!

He should be the prime suspect because he had both the time and opportunity to commit the crime !!

Just two perpetrators may not even have been enough it may have been 3 or more. The family had may firearms in the house so it must of took someone who knew the layout and also had a good knowledge of guns. It has to be someone/people who knew them. As for the boyfriend as the killer I doubt if it seems like the is a lack of motive and his young age make him more unlikely for this complicated of a crime.

He should be the prime suspect because he had both the time and opportunity to commit the crime !!


How do we know he had the time an opportunity to commit the crime. Mrs. Freeman's time of death was placed at 5am, almost 8 hours after the boy was supposed to have gone home. He was a 16 year old kid living in a small town, he would have had a curfew to answer to from his parents, I suspect. They probably can attest that he wasn't out murdering Danny and Kathy and kidnapping Ashley and Laura at 5am that morning. I don't know about all of this, but it would make sense.

I don't see any reason why Ashley's boyfriend would kill her parents and burn down the trailer. I still think that Danny's drug deals/feud with the police got him and Kathy killed, but I also lean towards Ashley and possibly Lauria being involved. They were not found in the ruins. If it was someone else, wouldn't all 4 of them have been found in the rubble? I think Ashley's problems with her dad made her kill him possibly, but why kill her mother? Many people close to the family said that Kathy was a loving, supportive mother. Someone even said to me that Ashley and Lauria were possibly more than friends but I don't buy that. The case is so conflicting. Anything could be possible but we won't really know until any trace of Ashley and/or Lauria is found.

I have a hard time buying either the drug dealer angle or the feud with the local sheriff's dept (SD).

If it were the drug dealers, I can't imagine why the girls were taken and, presumably, killed elsewhere. If drug dealers had committed this murder they would have done all 4 of them at the same time and burned the trailer, IMO.

The problem I have with the theory of the SD having committed this murder over a feud is the quickness with which they handed over the case to the Oklahoma State BOI and the quickness with which the SD was excluded via polygraphs and the investigation by the state. Although the local LEOs demonstrated incompetence at missing Danny's body, it doesn't seem likely that they had a hand in this crime. I will say, that based on my objection to the drug dealer theory above, the SD would look like a more promising lead. I feel that they would be more likely to try to create a confusing scenario by murdering Danny and Kathy in the home and taking the girls elsewhere to murder them. However, I don't believe the SD had anything to do with it at this point.

Mrs. Freeman's time of death was placed at 5am, almost 8 hours after the boy was supposed to have gone home.

If it were the drug dealers, I can't imagine why the girls were taken and, presumably, killed elsewhere.


To be a good detective is to think out of the box. For a crime, you really cannot discount any possibility !!


Time of death only establishes the timeframe the victims were killed. It does not tell you when the crime actually took place. The Bibles could be held at gunpoint for the entire night before they were killed next day morning.

If people can be as far as to suspecting the girls killing THEIR OWN parents, then whats so hard to think that the boyfriend could be the killer?


It could be the boyfriend and his friends decided to commit robbery on the Bibles.

If someone above claimed the Bibles having stocked some firearms and IF the perpetuator killed them using their own weapons, he has to be someone close to the family in order to know where the guns are kept. Who better to know it than the boyfriend himself ?

Besides, if this case was drug related,how would you guys know if the boyfriend didnt have some drug relations with the dead son of the Bibles?


And why the drug dealers didnt kill the girls at the scene? Why let 2 ripe looking girls go to waste?

They could be kidnapped to be raped and disposed off at another more convenient site, they could have been gagged and sold to another country as prostitutes..

Thats plausible too !!

I think the girls were sadly abducted for sexual motives by the killer, who probably wanted to leave the home well before it was light out and anyone would see him making his escape (and he seems to have succeeded, since no one saw him). I think he wanted to use the girls and then disposed of them in an area where they would be hard to find. I think Sells confessed also that he'd sexually assaulted them after the abduction (but as everyone says, it's hard to know if he's telling the truth). He probably didn't just tell them to get in the truck, he probably coerced them at gunpoint, maybe tied them up while he set the house on fire.

I have doubts about the boyfriend for more than his young age. I think he probably would have lied and said he wasn't there or had left much earlier to look better. Doesn't he also have a pretty thick alibi? For him to kidnap/assault/kill and dump the girls in a location that still has yet to be uncovered would take quite a long time and no one reported him being missing all night, right? I would have to read more into this case.

The police severely bungled this investigation. Perhaps they didn't care as much due to their dispute with the family so they did a haphazard job of scrounging through the rubble? Maybe they were tempted to hurry up and not spend time on it because of the drug dealing and previous disputes? Whether apathy or with ulterior motives, they did a poor job. But I don't think that necessarily means they were involved; I agree with another poster that if they were involved they probably would have been reluctant to hand the case off when covering it themselves means better covering their own tracks.

Pretty much on the sames lines as WishfulDreamer here but, I can't help but think this could be solved my now if the local LE weren't so against the Freeman's, they probably overlooked the bodies because they didn't give a damn and since it's such a small town theres a good chance the whole system is corrupt and every investigator/officer was just flat out against the Freeman family because of the fact they were a drug dealing family and the son being shot by an officer incident. I also believe that there is probably few homicides in the area so the LE may be inexpierenced. I don't think the police were directly involved though.

A segment of Disappeared with Beth Halloway talked about this case. It aired in 2011 and it was mostly Lauria's parents talking about their daughter and the case. No new evidence, sadly. I don't think they'll ever find their bodies. :(

Just watched the brand-new "Disappeared" episode on this case. One detail that was never mentioned on UM was the fact that Ashley had been saving money to buy a car, and apparently had $4000 in a tupperware container stashed in the freezer. That probably would have shielded it from the fire, but authorities could find no trace of the money or the container at the crime scene. The missing $4000 might be a reason they initially theorized that the two girls committed the murders and took off.

If the murders were the result of a drug debt, I wonder if Danny Freeman might have tried to hand over the $4000 to save himself. Even if the murders weren't drug-related, it's possible someone might have tried to pay off the killer to spare their lives. We do know that nearly $200 was left behind in Lauria's purse, so it doesn't seem robbery was the initial motive. Apparently, it was Ashley's boyfriend who told the cops that Ashley stored that money in the freezer, but I wonder how many other people outside the family would have known that.

The one item from the "Disappeared" episode I had never heard before was that in 2001, an inmate came forward and claimed that the two girls were at a New Year's Eve party right after the murders at a nearby meth house. He says they were both raped, tortured and killed by some meth addicts, but when authorities searched the house, they could find no evidence to support this story.

I just watched the "Disappeared" episode about their case. Made me feel sad when Lauria's parents started to tear up. I feel that both girls were victims. I don't think they could've been involved in Danny and Kathy's murders as they didn't have the means to make it very far, even with the missing $4000 that Ashley had. I strongly feel that Danny knew some shady characters and he double-crossed them and they decided to get a little payback and killed Danny and Kathy, stole the money they were owed and then either killed the 2 girls and dumped their bodies somewhere or took them hostage and brainwashed them (Stockholm's syndrome to put it mildly).

I've said it before, I think it goes back to drug dealers.

I don't think you can throw out Jones' confession, either. He at the very least knows who did it, and should be looked at and pressed even further. My guess is Danny pissed a dealer off. The dealer came back with more than one person demanding money, someone offered the $4,000 (Danny, Kathy, or Ashley), and that wasn't enough. They killed Danny and Kathy and took the girls. I think Jones was either there, or knows who did it. They did mention that he knew the caliber of the gun, and the accelerant used, both were never released to the media.

While there's no evidence to support the inmate's story about the New Year's Eve Party at the meth house, it would fit perfectly into the timeline of events. Whoever was responsible goes to collect a drug debt, kills the parents, burns down the trailer, and decides to kidnap the two girls. The meth addicts decide to keep the girls alive for a day or two in order to have some fun with them at this party, and then kill them before disposing of the bodies.

I don't think it's absurd at all to think the girls did it themselves. Here's my reasoning. 1. Ashley's money was gone. ( no one would have it in the freezer)
2. Danny was violent and maybe sexually abusive as well. (motive)
3. Mom was shot in bed ( something a kid would do)
4. Ashley was great with a gun.

I don't think it's absurd at all to think the girls did it themselves. Here's my reasoning. 1. Ashley's money was gone. ( no one would have it in the freezer)
2. Danny was violent and maybe sexually abusive as well. (motive)
3. Mom was shot in bed ( something a kid would do)
4. Ashley was great with a gun.
It's an interesting theory, but I just can't see it happening.
Here's why I think that:
1) Lauria's money (over $200 in cash) was left behind.
2) The girls had absolutely no transportation out of the rural area and were never seen on foot or anything. (I would think they would have taken Lauria's car. I know it might be theorized that they didn't to look innocent, but I have a hard time believing that got out of there without a car, which is why I believe they were abducted)
3) I believe phone records would have been checked if they had called someone for a ride out of there.
4) Lauria was extremely close to her family, so I doubt she would have run away at that age without a single word in 13 years.

The story of Lauria Bible and Ashley Freeman was told through the program, “Out of the Ashes,” which aired on the Investigation Discovery network.


“I received two leads,” Bible said. “One was very credible.”

Both leads were turned over to Craig County Sheriff Jimmie Sooter.

“We are tracking down the names and investigating the leads,” Sooter said.

http://www.miamiok.com/news/article_b5a9415a-7849-54a1-b697-82266f1f9286.html

Theories:

*Police corruption theory.

*Maybe if this was a drug deal the killer took the girls to use them in any way they could make money for him.The killer is not a good guy, maybe he was related to some sort of local drug mafia and drug mafias are always linked to prostitution, even forced prostitution, human trafficking and who knows.

The girls where young and pretty. And that's a possibility.

*I also think it could be a random killing and the perpetrator was some sicko -local or stranger to town- and has some sexual problems, saw the beautifl girls and wasn't his prime motive but took the girls to some place, abused them for some time and then, killed them in another area.

*It could be a premeditated murder by some sexual predator that was obsessed with one of the girls and same case of random predator, took them away, etc.

*One of the girls was severely abused, and they kill the abusive parents and runaway. But one question is: the one who wasn't abused, why didn't appear some time later to see her family? it's strange. Maybe both had bad family lives.

A far-fetched theory here;
Say the gun-man/men targeted the parents first, meanwhile the girls were awakened and fled the home. If the area was really remote, is it possible that in the dark, the girls fled as far as they could in terror possible into woods or some other kind of wilderness?
If this were the case, could the girls have died of exposure to the cold, given that was the 30th of December? And given the past history of the PD's sloppy investigation it may be possible that they never bothered to search or poorly searched a few mile radius around the home.
I guess at this point the only thing we can conclude from this one is that anything's possible..

The only thing clear, to me at least, about this case is that Danny was a scumbag who in some way, shape, or form, is responsible for what happened that night.

Given his violence and drug-dealing activities (admittedly: probably on a small scale), the idea that he pissed off the wrong people and had his family killed for it is certainly plausible.

I think it's also reasonable, based on the known abuse and family dysfunction, to presume Ashley was not the happy, well-adjusted child she is portrayed to be, ergo, she may well have had good reason to kill her father (although not, from what is known, her mother). However, while plausible in theory, I don't believe this is what occurred, simply because there is, IMO, slim to no chance two 16-year old's could successfully stay on the lam this long.

And Laurie's presence mitigates this argument as well - even if Ashley wanted to kill her parents, why would she involve her friend? and why wouldn't that friend reach out to her own parents, even with a self-serving defense?

A random stranger killing the family is also plausible, I suppose. The trailer was isolated; although the number of people there and the arms they had, plus that very isolation, would seem to make it a high-risk target for a lone killer.

I don't think the police were involved. I'm sure they disliked Danny, for good reason, but why exactly would they go slaughter the man's family? You have to have an extraordinary low opinion of rural red state folk/institutions to think that's commonplace, as some here seem to suggest.

This is a case I saw once many years ago and largely forgot about. Perhaps it just got lost in the shuffle of the many hundreds of segments the show aired. Having just saw the Disappeared episode on it, it prompted me to do more research on it. I had no idea the case was this complex, with so many suspects and twists.

I agree with egswanso just above in that Danny Freeman was an ass. I get the sense that neither of his kids liked him that much. I also want to know why he wasted so much money on all those guns while subjecting his family to living in a trailer with no running water.

It's a shame because Kathy was trying to move away from the area, but was unsuccessful. Have to wonder if all of this would have been avoided had they moved away.

There are numerous inconsistencies in some things, but I'm not sure they amount to either here nor there. For example, one of the t.v. pieces depicts the boyfriend giving Laura the necklace at her home, yet the CP link says this happened at Wal-Mart. Again, I'm not sure that amounts to anything, but it's worth noting nonetheless.

One thing that struck out at me was that Ashley had allegedly saved $4,000 from her convenience store job. That is an eye-popping amount of money for a 16 year old to have. That convenience store must have paid very well or she was very adept at saving money.

And here's another mind-boggling bit: one of the suspects that has confessed to these crimes -- Tommy Sells -- is also a suspect in the Stefanie Stroh case. You may remember her from the 10 rapid-fire missing persons cases Stack ran down in one of the earlier seasons.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/stroh_stefanie.html

One thing that struck out at me was that Ashley had allegedly saved $4,000 from her convenience store job. That is an eye-popping amount of money for a 16 year old to have. That convenience store must have paid very well or she was very adept at saving money.

That large amount of money, $4,000, makes it just about impossible to believe that these girls committed the murders then left on their own.

I knew there had been about $200 in Ashley's purse that had been found at the scene (and wasn't there some cash in a container in the freezer?) and I figured that they would not have willingly left behind a car, the $200, etc, but for two teenage girls to leave behind $4,000 while they're on the run and need that money? No way, imo.

The cash in the container in the freezer was the $4,000, or at the very least, the money Ashley was saving for a car. There are several discrepancies as to how much she really had.

I just watched the Vanished episode on this, so I've watched 3 different shows profile it in 3 days. Lorene Bible said that when they noticed Danny Freeman's remains in the ashes, that he had shoe marks all over his pants, which means that the investigators literally walked over him during the initial search. That proves to me the investigators knew he was there.

Lorene also said they kept the Christmas tree that Ashely had set up and/or decorate for 5 years, and only took it down because it broke when Lorene moved it to dust it. Lorene also says she still leaves the porch light on for Lauria. I like Lorene.

And Steve Nutter was interviewed for all 3 shows. There was actually a 4th show that did this case, it was the pilot for a show called What Really Happened?, but unfortunately all of the networks passed it up. It had a lot of info on there that wasn't on any of the other shows, and it sounds like it would have made for an interesting episode. I think this would have been an intriguing series and wished one of the networks would have bought it.

I agree with many that say Danny Freeman was the primary reason that the Freeman's and Laura Bible were killed. I believe it was a drug deal gone wrong.

The cash in the container in the freezer was the $4,000, or at the very least, the money Ashley was saving for a car. There are several discrepancies as to how much she really had.

I just watched the Vanished episode on this, so I've watched 3 different shows profile it in 3 days. Lorene Bible said that when they noticed Danny Freeman's remains in the ashes, that he had shoe marks all over his pants, which means that the investigators literally walked over him during the initial search. That proves to me the investigators knew he was there.

Lorene also said they kept the Christmas tree that Ashely had set up and/or decorate for 5 years, and only took it down because it broke when Lorene moved it to dust it. Lorene also says she still leaves the porch light on for Lauria. I like Lorene.

And Steve Nutter was interviewed for all 3 shows. There was actually a 4th show that did this case, it was the pilot for a show called What Really Happened?, but unfortunately all of the networks passed it up. It had a lot of info on there that wasn't on any of the other shows, and it sounds like it would have made for an interesting episode. I think this would have been an intriguing series and wished one of the networks would have bought it.Yeah, I'm thinking that this is directly related with Danny Freeman's shady dealings but it is really amazing that more info about this case isn't out there and readily available. Surely somebody in the area knows more about his dealings and has an idea who could be involved as I believe it's very unlikely to be a random act of violence or the work of a serial killer.

I really do hope we find out the truth one day.

I admire Lorene Bible's determination to find out what happened. She said she even met shady people at 2 a.m. in the morning on isolated streets to try and find out information and said she would do it again.

wait was this case solved?

wait was this case solved?

Nope, unfortunately it still hasn't been solved.

I thought people were saying someone confessed or something

I thought people were saying someone confessed or something

I think Tommy Lynn Sells confessed but it's generally thought to be a false confession. He did travel around a lot and committed similar crimes, so I'm sure it's a possibility that's he's responsible.

I think Tommy Lynn Sells confessed but it's generally thought to be a false confession. He did travel around a lot and committed similar crimes, so I'm sure it's a possibility that's he's responsible.

There was also a confession by Jeremy Brian Jones. I don't think you can throw his confession out, he was in the area, knew what accelerant was used, and knew what caliber gun was used to kill Danny and Kathy. Those last 2 things were never released to the public.

There was also a confession by Jeremy Brian Jones. I don't think you can throw his confession out, he was in the area, knew what accelerant was used, and knew what caliber gun was used to kill Danny and Kathy. Those last 2 things were never released to the public.

The UM segment said that Mr. and Mrs. Freeman were both shot with a shotgun, so the murder weapon was publicized. Did Jones have info on exactly what kind of shotgun, 12 gauge, 20 gauge, etc, or some kind of gun related info that hadn't been released to the public?

The UM segment said that Mr. and Mrs. Freeman were both shot with a shotgun, so the murder weapon was publicized. Did Jones have info on exactly what kind of shotgun, 12 gauge, 20 gauge, etc, or some kind of gun related info that hadn't been released to the public?

On Disappeared and in articles, the cops said he knew what kind like 12 gauge, 20 gauge, etc.

At the very least, he knows who was responsible.

On Disappeared and in articles, the cops said he knew what kind like 12 gauge, 20 gauge, etc.

At the very least, he knows who was responsible.

Very interesting.... Thanks for that info. I hadn't heard about him knowing that kind of detail.

call me crazy, but is there a chance that Ashley and Laura's remain were in the ashes, but police just didn't notice them? I say that because they had initially overlooked Mr. Freeman's remains. Perhaps they accidentally got thrown out with some other things. :( You do hear a lot of cases where some bodies turn up in the ashes and some don't, makes you wonder if some bodies burn more completely than others.

call me crazy, but is there a chance that Ashley and Laura's remain were in the ashes, but police just didn't notice them? I say that because they had initially overlooked Mr. Freeman's remains. Perhaps they accidentally got thrown out with some other things. :( You do hear a lot of cases where some bodies turn up in the ashes and some don't, makes you wonder if some bodies burn more completely than others.

If they not only missed Mr. Freeman's remains but Ashley and Laura's as well, then they've got to be the most inept bunch of cops I've ever heard of.

call me crazy, but is there a chance that Ashley and Laura's remain were in the ashes, but police just didn't notice them? I say that because they had initially overlooked Mr. Freeman's remains. Perhaps they accidentally got thrown out with some other things. :( You do hear a lot of cases where some bodies turn up in the ashes and some don't, makes you wonder if some bodies burn more completely than others.

I think this theory makes the most sense out of them all, given what we know about the case.

call me crazy, but is there a chance that Ashley and Laura's remain were in the ashes, but police just didn't notice them? I say that because they had initially overlooked Mr. Freeman's remains. Perhaps they accidentally got thrown out with some other things. :( You do hear a lot of cases where some bodies turn up in the ashes and some don't, makes you wonder if some bodies burn more completely than others.

I have always thought that this makes the most sense. Same with the Sodder family in West Virginia.

It should be noted that I am naturally a skeptic and contrarian (which fits in well on this board), and tend to think many mysteries are not overly mysterious.

call me crazy, but is there a chance that Ashley and Laura's remain were in the ashes, but police just didn't notice them? I say that because they had initially overlooked Mr. Freeman's remains. Perhaps they accidentally got thrown out with some other things. :( You do hear a lot of cases where some bodies turn up in the ashes and some don't, makes you wonder if some bodies burn more completely than others.

Do you think the fire burned hot enough to make them completely disappear though?

I really don't think the two girls remains were missed. Danny's were initially, but that could have really just been an honest mistake. There had to have been repeated trips back to the burnsite (not to mention a clean up of some sort), and I think if the girls were there they would have been found.

But don't forget, we are talking about the authorities in Oklahoma here, and just look at their pathetic track record. Even the Oklahoma FBI have been shown to be incompetents and liars.

Nothing would surprise me.

The big thing that makes me think the girls were taken out of the trailer was that Lauria's car had the key in the ignition. She was supposed to be spending the night at the Freeman trailer that night, so she would have had no reason to put the key in the ignition. Other than if she was forced to do so, or if it was a failed attempt at an escape.

And did anyone ever read about the nurse (DeAnna Dorsey) who was interviewed for a show about the missing girls (it never aired), who shortly after the taping of her interview was murdered when she returned to the hospital where she worked?! Dorsey was a nurse who was working in the hospital when the Freeman's son, Shane, was brought in after he was shot. Some people believe she was murdered to keep quiet about the possibility of law enforcement involvement in the deaths.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/bible_lauria.html

I think if the girls were there they would have been found.
I agree. I don't believe that Lauria's wallet would be found in the rubble mostly intact with all that money inside but the girls' bodies were burned beyond a trace being found. I highly doubt they were there.

The key being in the ignition is a very good point and I'd forgotten all about it. Not only was Lauria supposed to have been spending the night, but Ashley's mother had apparently driven the girls to eat out for the birthday, so Lauria wasn't doing any driving after her initial arrival anyway as far as we know. I don't see why her key would be in there, even if we are talking about a trusting, rural neighborhood or anything of the sort. Isn't it just a habit for most people to take the key out once you arrive to your destination?

I've always thought that the perpetrator came in, shot the parents, and then abducted the girls at gunpoint. If the two heard the shotgun blasts (which would have been pretty loud), there's a very good chance they rushed out to Lauria's car in an attempt to escape and the perpetrator used his gun to coerce them into accompanying him. If Lauria tried to escape on her own, this person could have threatened Ashley with the gun to force her to comply and get out of the car. I really shudder to think of the fear these girls must have experienced.

EDIT: Charley Project says Danny's shoulder was fractured before he was shot. Sounds like there was a struggle and perhaps the girls heard this and tried to flee as a result.

Do you think the fire burned hot enough to make them completely disappear though?

I don't know about that, but I can't discount the possibility. There are several factors to consider: 1) Lauria and Ashley undoubtedly weighed less than say, Ashley's father, so there was less there to burn. 2) I think it may largely depend on where everyone was at the time of their demise and where the fire started. I can't remember if the segment specified whether or not an accelerant was used. If so, that probably means the fire would be more intense than a normal house fire. I also should point out that the Freeman's had a wood burning stove, so that could be important.

The CP page claims that the reason LE didn't notice Danny's body initially was because it was covered by debris. That is what led me to believe the same thing might have happened to the girls.

The key being in the ignition is a very good point and I'd forgotten all about it. Not only was Lauria supposed to have been spending the night, but Ashley's mother had apparently driven the girls to eat out for the birthday, so Lauria wasn't doing any driving after her initial arrival anyway as far as we know. I don't see why her key would be in there, even if we are talking about a trusting, rural neighborhood or anything of the sort. Isn't it just a habit for most people to take the key out once you arrive to your destination?

I believe some people do it. Here's a CP link to a missing person whose regular habit was to leave the key in the ignition.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/crawford_maud.html

Lauria's wallet was found to be somewhat intact and not burned beyond recognition. There's no way a wallet would be found and not the two girls. They were abducted from the residence, IMO.

I used to do some fire litigation years ago. About all I remember is that fires are very strange. They have hotspots and dead spots. If the wallet was in a different room it is not impossible that it would be relatively unscathed while bodies were burned severely.

I am speaking generally, not specifically to this case. I will make the same comment I made re the JBR discussion; this is one where I have a gut feeling but would not be shocked to be wrong. Makes for fascinating discussion.

I used to do some fire litigation years ago. About all I remember is that fires are very strange. They have hotspots and dead spots. If the wallet was in a different room it is not impossible that it would be relatively unscathed while bodies were burned severely.

I am speaking generally, not specifically to this case. I will make the same comment I made re the JBR discussion; this is one where I have a gut feeling but would not be shocked to be wrong. Makes for fascinating discussion.

I was about to post something similar, but Tighthead put it far better than I could have. For the reason described above, I do think it's possible the girls' bodies could have been severely burned while some household goods and personal belongings were left relatively intact.

Danny's remains were missed because they were covered by debris. Despite the fact that it took the Bibles to find his remains, I doubt that when investigators went back to sift through the rubble they wouldn't have found any remains at all. I'm not an expert on anything, but it seems improbable that all of the girls bones in both of their bodies would have burned completely away.

This might be another case I'm thinking of, but didn't the police find the two girls in the desert and one of the girls was lying on top of the other almost as if she was trying to protect her friend?

This might be another case I'm thinking of, but didn't the police find the two girls in the desert and one of the girls was lying on top of the other almost as if she was trying to protect her friend?

I think that was the case of Diana Shawcroft and Jennifer Lueth.

Ashley Freeman and Lauria Bible have never been located.

http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Diana_Shawcroft_and_Jennifer_Lueth

I don't think I've seen any other programs on this case except for the UM segment. I went looking for the Disappeared episode (haven't found it yet) but did run across a news broadcast from about 2009/2010: OSBI Releases New Details in 1999 Disappearance of Two Craig County Teens.

There are some things I didn't know about, even tho this info is a few years old.

Two vehicles were reportedly observed near the scene at about 5:30 in the morning. A dark colored sedan was seen heading east and a dark colored heavy duty pick up truck was seen heading north.

Lauria's mom was wondering why it took so long (11 years after the crime) for this information to be released. The OSBI said that they didn't release the info about the car back when it happened because it was vague. IMO, seeing a dark sedan at 5:30 in the morning in a rural area on the day of an arson murder isn't vague. A dark car is vague, but the location and time of day would make that more likely to be remembered by a witness. I think they should have made that information known right away.

OSBI said they didn't get the tip about the truck until a recent interview. With who? And why did that person remember a VAGUE dark pick up truck going north at 5:30 am TEN YEARS EARLIER, but the car sighting was too vague to release at the time? The tip about the truck may have come in around the time a documentary (about this case?) was being filmed in the area but no one is sure if that is what sparked the witness's memory or if it's related at all.

Ashley Freeman was legally declared dead a few years ago, which makes sense because she had been missing over a decade at the time and has no immediate family members. Lauria's mom isn't ready to do that in her daughter's case because she believes it means giving up all hope of ever finding her daughter, and she's not ready to give up yet.

I was able to watch the Disappeared segment on the forbidden site when it first came out but it seems that ID has been a lot more vigilent about getting them removed lately. It was good to see a recent program on the case and interviews with Lauria's family and the girls' friends. If you can catch it, I recommend watching it. They also go into the Freeman family's anger at LE, Shane's shooting, and the various confessions. It's discussed why the area claimed to be where the girls are at is nearly impossible to search thoroughly. It's been a while, but I believe we also get some info about Ashley's boyfriend.

I was able to watch the Disappeared segment on the forbidden site when it first came out but it seems that ID has been a lot more vigilent about getting them removed lately. It was good to see a recent program on the case and interviews with Lauria's family and the girls' friends. If you can catch it, I recommend watching it. They also go into the Freeman family's anger at LE, Shane's shooting, and the various confessions. It's discussed why the area claimed to be where the girls are at is nearly impossible to search thoroughly. It's been a while, but I believe we also get some info about Ashley's boyfriend.

Yes. I saw it only once when Season 5 went through its original run, but I do recall that it was far more informative background-wise than the UM segment ever was.

anyone think the girls might have been lesbian lovers and they murdered the parents because they didn't approve of the relationship? I don't say that as a joke. I think that is a possible theory.

anyone think the girls might have been lesbian lovers and they murdered the parents because they didn't approve of the relationship? I don't say that as a joke. I think that is a possible theory.

No.

anyone think the girls might have been lesbian lovers and they murdered the parents because they didn't approve of the relationship? I don't say that as a joke. I think that is a possible theory.

put the bottle down

anyone think the girls might have been lesbian lovers and they murdered the parents because they didn't approve of the relationship? I don't say that as a joke. I think that is a possible theory.

So where have they been for the last 15 plus years?

anyone think the girls might have been lesbian lovers and they murdered the parents because they didn't approve of the relationship? I don't say that as a joke. I think that is a possible theory.

Is this a serious question?

anyone think the girls might have been lesbian lovers and they murdered the parents because they didn't approve of the relationship? I don't say that as a joke. I think that is a possible theory.

This sounds like the plot of a terrible Lifetime movie

Hmm. I don't think it's what happened. I guess it's possible, but it wouldn't explain a lot of the evidence left behind. I'm pretty sure at least one of them left a substantial amount of money behind. Also, if they had run off together, an awful long time has passed for them to not contact ANYONE.

Unfortunately, I believe these two are dead and we're just waiting to find their skeletons somewhere. I believe a suspect mentioned at the bottom of a mine shaft once. I don't think that's too far off.

put the bottle down
:lol:

In all seriousness, no that theory doesn't seem solid at all, for many reasons, including:
1) How did they leave? Lauria's car and Ashley's parents' vehicles were at the house. No phone records have been mentioned in regard to a phone being used before the fire took place...so they likely couldn't have phoned someone to get them away from the scene.
2) Would Lauria really leave her purse (full of hundreds of dollars), and car?
3) Where would the girls have been hiding for 15+ years?
4) Ashley and her boyfriend had been dating for over a year (I believe. It was a substantial amount of time), and Lauria and Ashely's behavior don't indicate anything beyond friendship.
5) This does indeed sound like a terrible Lifetime movie plot.

I agree with the general consensus that Ashley and Lauria were victims and that they are, in all likelihood, dead. From what I can tell, they were a pair of sixteen-year-old girls, not criminal masterminds.

I agree with the general consensus that Ashley and Lauria were victims and that they are, in all likelihood, dead. From what I can tell, they were a pair of sixteen-year-old girls, not criminal masterminds.

Children killing parents is not something unheard of. I just saw a case the other day as I was flipping through channels where a teenage girl killed her parents in a gruesome fashion.

That said, I don't think that is the case here mainly because I don't see how two teenage girls could go on the run and remain at large this long.

If they are still alive they are living under new IDs and blacking out the whole night but in all likelyhood probably in a river or wood somewhere

This is just one of those mysterious ones where almost no question is stupid regarding it. Even the lesbian lovers one asked a page or so back. I don't believe that's what happened, but where have the other theories gotten us? Nowhere. SOMEONE knows what happened, no doubt about it.

I know it sounds like a cliché but how much has Ashley's boyfriend been suspected? He could be totally innocent. His story could easily have checked out, he was at the party until a certain time, about an hour or so before the incident appeared to take place (I believe). But is there NOTHING he could give the police to help them? Anything to the tune of "I heard a strange noise" would go a long ways. Even the behaviour of Ashley and her parents could have come into question that night, only one person alive can tell us this.

And maybe he already did, I just wonder how so little can be taken from that.

I know it sounds like a cliché but how much has Ashley's boyfriend been suspected? He could be totally innocent. His story could easily have checked out, he was at the party until a certain time, about an hour or so before the incident appeared to take place (I believe). But is there NOTHING he could give the police to help them? Anything to the tune of "I heard a strange noise" would go a long ways. Even the behaviour of Ashley and her parents could have come into question that night, only one person alive can tell us this.

And maybe he already did, I just wonder how so little can be taken from that.

As the last person known to have seen a bunch of dead & missing people, I'm sure they tried to get every last drop of info they could out of him.

My personal opinion is something to do with the police. I think something to do with the police and Ashley's dad and it escalated from there. Police corruption is definitely a reason a lot of crimes go unsolved well that's what i think.

My personal opinion is something to do with the police. I think something to do with the police and Ashley's dad and it escalated from there. Police corruption is definitely a reason a lot of crimes go unsolved well that's what i think.

I wouldn't go that far. I would propose an alternative: A lot of crimes go unsolved because of botched police investigations.

I genuinely think most police officers are solid, good people who want to protect society. Unfortunately, they are not trained as well as they should be (especially in the rural areas) of how to properly contain and process a crime scene. When that happens, key pieces of evidence are missed or mishandled and a case ends up going cold not because of lack of suspects, but because there is a lack of evidence to convict them in a court of law.

I think recent media attention has put emphasis on some rotten apples in the field, but I believe there are rotten apples everywhere. Hopefully, this newfound scrutiny will take those bad apples out of the mix.

Oh-kay.... stepping of my soap box now. :)

I wouldn't go that far. I would propose an alternative: A lot of crimes go unsolved because of botched police investigations.

I genuinely think most police officers are solid, good people who want to protect society. Unfortunately, they are not trained as well as they should be (especially in the rural areas) of how to properly contain and process a crime scene. When that happens, key pieces of evidence are missed or mishandled and a case ends up going cold not because of lack of suspects, but because there is a lack of evidence to convict them in a court of law.

I think recent media attention has put emphasis on some rotten apples in the field, but I believe there are rotten apples everywhere. Hopefully, this newfound scrutiny will take those bad apples out of the mix.

Oh-kay.... stepping of my soap box now. :)

Well very said!

Yeah i do agree and like you said. It doesn't matter if it's America or Australia or Canada.. there are bad eggs all the time. I'm not in America so i don't have any personal experiences with police, I'm only going on what i watch and read.

My personal opinion is something to do with the police. I think something to do with the police and Ashley's dad and it escalated from there. Police corruption is definitely a reason a lot of crimes go unsolved well that's what i think.

I don't think it was the police. They dropped out of the case immediately, and handed the investigation over, so that makes it look like they had nothing to hide.

I still go with the drug dealer theory. Danny had pissed a dealer off, and the dealer sent people there to deal with Danny.

Yeah that could also be a high possibility. Some people have even said that it was the girls themselves! Apparently they both knew how to use a gun. If that is the case then how have they managed to stay under the radar for so long?

New news segment on this case:

http://www.fox23.com/news/welch-cold-case-sends-investigators-to-kansas/394445745

This was posted on "Find Lauria Bible" Facebook page:
Though we are excited about CNN picking up our story and putting together a 6 part mini series, we, the Bible family will continue to work every day as we always have to find Lauria and Ashley. As always, any tips may be messaged to us privately and will be handled as we always have. We have made it our priority for years to listen to anyone willing to talk to us and we will not stop doing that or have anyone doing it for us. We welcome any and all help we receive......and we are VERY grateful for it, but at the end of the day, this is the life we have lived for 18 very long years, searching for our girls, checking every face is a big crowd, turning every shoulder of curly haired girls who resemble Lauria, panicking every time another one of our children get out of our sight, never allowing any of our other children to sleep over with friends, and praying that this nightmare will end. No one will ever work as hard as we have/will for the answers that we know are out there. If anyone wants to tell us what they know.....WE ARE LISTENING......

https://www.facebook.com/Find-Lauria-Bible-211300375881207/

If they are still alive...

https://media1.tenor.com/images/b00797bafe2ea3b0f18529a2abfe3664/tenor.gif?itemid=4180987

If they are still alive they are living under new IDs and blacking out the whole night but in all likelyhood probably in a river or wood somewhere

With a suspect in custody they need to figure where to search.

Has anyone been watching the 4 part special of the girls case on HLN? It gives a lot more insight on the case

Well very said!

Plus 1

Has anyone been watching the 4 part special of the girls case on HLN? It gives a lot more insight on the case

Care to share the details from HLN that UM missed?

Has anyone been watching the 4 part special of the girls case on HLN? It gives a lot more insight on the case

Didn't know there was even a special being made. I looked it up and found out that it's on Demand after an episode gets broadcast. So I look forward to catching up. Thanks for the heads up.

Copied and paste...

Following are the episode descriptions and airdates for Hell in the Heartland:

June 2, 2019 (series premiere) “The Fire”

On the night of December 30, 1999 a fire rips through the Freeman family home in Welch, OK. Four people are in the house that night, but only two bodies are found – Kathy and Danny Freeman. Their daughter Ashley Freeman and her best friend Lauria Bible are nowhere to be found. And it isn’t long before investigators discover that the fire is not what killed Danny and Kathy Freeman. Both died of fatal gunshot wounds, and the person responsible may have taken the girls. But why would someone want the Freeman family dead? We follow investigators Jax Miller and Sarah Caliean as they probe the case and discover that there’s much more to the story than they first thought.

June 9, 2019 “The Suspects”

After digging into the 1999 murders of Kathy and Danny Freeman and the disappearance of their daughter Ashley and her best friend Lauria Bible, Jax and Sarah discover that this story is far more complicated than it appears. Only a year prior to the fire, the Freemans’ son, Shane, was killed by a deputy of the Craig County Sheriff’s Office, inciting a year long conflict between the Freemans and local law enforcement, and raising suspicion that the Freeman murder is a police cover-up. Jax and Sarah explore all possible leads in the months following the fire, and reveal a string of serial murderers and drug kingpins that may have had a hand in this case.

June 16, 2019 “The Dig”

After a series of dead leads, a notorious serial killer named Jeremy Jones confesses to the Freeman murder and the disappearance of Lauria and Ashley. But after a lengthy investigation, Jones recants his confession, and without proper evidence, law enforcement is unable to charge him with the crime. Again facing a dead end, the Freeman and Bible families are left without answers, until a Facebook tip suggests that an old family friend of Danny Freeman, the murdered father, may be responsible. With new info about the location of the girls’ possibly buried bodies, Jax and Sarah prepare for a dig that could finally provide the answers.

June 23 2019 “The Arrest”

Years of dead ends and unsuccessful searches have left the Bible and the Freeman families in utter despair. But they’ve never given up hope. After a new Sheriff takes over the investigation, the case is blown wide open when he discovers a box of evidence that leads to what the families have been waiting years for – an arrest.

Care to share the details from HLN that UM missed?
The special went a lot more in depth on the various suspects in the case, such as a close friend who worked with Danny Freeman named Krider. They talked about the party that the girls were supposedly at on December 30. They also have updated interviews with Jay and Lorene Bible. The last episode left off with the dig into a well and underneath a house that was on the Krider property

Has anyone been watching the 4 part special of the girls case on HLN? It gives a lot more insight on the case

Didn't know there was even a special being made. I looked it up and found out that it's on Demand after an episode gets broadcast. So I look forward to catching up. Thanks for the heads up.

Thanks to both of you for mentioning this show (and that it is on demand)! It has been very interesting so far. There is lots of information that I had never heard before and it does give so much more about the background than UM ever did.

I do NOT enjoy the style of this show, however. Most of it is okay but my two biggest complaints are the fake conversations between the two investigators to give info (why not just do it interview style?) and the fake dramatic moments before commercials. "And then they searched the house and found BLOOD!" *Cut to commercial* "... But the blood wasn't human. Oh, well. Let's move on."

That same style was used for "The Disappearance of Maura Murray" on Oxygen. These cases are fascinating on their own, so I don't know why the producers need to add fake hype especially before commercial breaks. It is really annoying and it cheapens these shows, in my opinion.

Was the FBI ever involved in this case? If it can be shown to be a kidnapping they should be.

I watched the first episode last night and...wow...what a horrible job investigators did during those first crucial days.

We already know that the Bibles discovered the body of Danny Freeman in the rubble after investigators somehow missed it during their seven hour search. That's already maddening enough. But at this point, the police know that two underage girls are missing and they don't put out an Amber Alert, don't alert the FBI and don't submit their names to any missing persons database? What the hell?

The Bibles also organized a search party and 500 residents showed up to help search for the girls. One of the show investigators pointed out that the police should have cordoned off some surrounding farmland areas around the trailer so search party members couldn't disturb any possible evidence because nothing they find would be admissible for a trial.

I'm just dumbfounded how something so horrific could happen and the police and investigators immediately make it obvious that they don't seem to give a crap.

I watched the first episode last night and...wow...what a horrible job investigators did during those first crucial days.

I totally agree. While this is NOT an excuse, I think a lot of this was a case of small town cops who were cluless. The problem is the OSBI which really should have known better. I can't believe the actions (or better yet, inaction) of that Steve Nutter guy.

A suspiscious fire of unknown origin demands a thorough invetigation that will generally take way more than 8 hours. The fact that there was at least one dead body and three missing demands a full inch-by-inch search of the house. The fact they didn't find Danny is a gross deriliction of duty.

This was compounded by the Bibles later taking over the scene when Danny was found. I 100% feel their anger and pain, but OSBI and perhaps the FBI should have sealed that scene back up tight. Just a complete failure by LE in this case.

The first two episodes were good but three started to get weird with all the jumping between suspects. And once again, the fake dramatic cliffhangers make this feel cheap rather than a quality investigative show. I hope we'll get some real answers in the last episode.

I don't have cable anymore, but y'all are making me think I need to buy these episodes from Amazon! Sounds fascinating!

For those of you who watched this whole mini-series, what do you think of the case?

I just noticed that Amazon has updated this and the East Area Rapist segments with fresh updates. Replacing the original recanted confession update with one on Busick and his two dead associates. Lauria is misspelled as Laurie in the update.

I totally agree. While this is NOT an excuse, I think a lot of this was a case of small town cops who were cluless. The problem is the OSBI which really should have known better. I can't believe the actions (or better yet, inaction) of that Steve Nutter guy.

A suspiscious fire of unknown origin demands a thorough invetigation that will generally take way more than 8 hours. The fact that there was at least one dead body and three missing demands a full inch-by-inch search of the house. The fact they didn't find Danny is a gross deriliction of duty.

This was compounded by the Bibles later taking over the scene when Danny was found. I 100% feel their anger and pain, but OSBI and perhaps the FBI should have sealed that scene back up tight. Just a complete failure by LE in this case.

The first two episodes were good but three started to get weird with all the jumping between suspects. And once again, the fake dramatic cliffhangers make this feel cheap rather than a quality investigative show. I hope we'll get some real answers in the last episode.

Yeah, it's very much in the vein of The Killing Season or Gone where I felt a lot of effort was being made into trying to turn the investigators and documentarians into stars less than the actual case. Finishing Part 4 this morning it came across to me that they thought they were going to make a long-winded unsolved documentary with all the jump scares and fake "you in danger girl"s that go with it only for LE to blow up their project by solving the crime mid-filming and they tried to salvage what they could.

This four-part series could have been a one hour show. All they needed was the first half of episode 1 and the last half of episode 4. Episodes 2 and 3 were devoted to false leads and wild goose chases which were an insult to the viewer.

As for this case, the LE agencies involved in this case in Oklahoma should be ashamed. They bungled this case from the start and they had most of the evidence they needed back when this occurred. They had plenty of leads that they ignored on purpose and/or never followed up on. The arrests don’t prove anything, but it is pretty clear this group of meth heads were involved. The girls’ bodies will most likely never be found, either. Just a horrible case all the way around.

I love how people were thinking "Police Conspiracy" with this case.

But as I've always said: Never assume malice when it can also be explained by stupidity.

Its hard to believe, but I can buy that the investigators really were THAT DUMB! The fact that they missed one dead body that was easily discovered by a non-pro is one of the most embarrassing things I've ever heard.

The girls’ bodies will most likely never be found, either. Just a horrible case all the way around.

Horrible is putting it lightly.

One thing I was amazed by watching the series was interviews with Dave Freeman's brother, who seemed stronger than I could ever be if I were in his shoes, considering everything that's happened to his family.

The picture of the Freeman family has got to be one of the most haunting photos now that UM ever featured given the fate of everyone...

Son - Killed by a police officer
Mom - Shot in the back of head, set ablaze
Dad - Shot to death, set ablaze
Daughter - Abducted, tortured for multiple days, murdered, body yet to be recovered

How any of their family members can hold on to their sanity after all that is beyond me.

The picture of the Freeman family has got to be one of the most haunting photos now that UM ever featured given the fate of everyone...

Yeah, good point... Ugh.

The only question I still have is why this all happened. I don't think it was a police conspiracy in spite of what Danny Freeman said before he died. I really wonder what kind of a guy Danny Freeman was. On one hand, his family said he was a good, hard working family man who grew a little weed on the side. But I have to wonder if the marijuana (and possibly meth) angles got him in over his head.

The violent way in which Danny and Kathy were killed and how the girls were abused and killed makes me wonder what would have brought on this horror.