since NBC's Joey and Will and Grace was no match for CBS Survivor between 8pm and 9pm, The Apprentice was no competition for CBS CSI between 9pm and 10pm and for the first time in 10 years, ER did not win it's competition between 10pm and 11pm because of CBS Without a Trace. Looks like CBS will control this season's Thursday Night Lineup.

nothing lasts forever. CBS ruled Saturday nights in the 70's with shows like MASH, AITF, MTM and the sort, but yet in the 80's, NBC was who ruled Saturdays with Golden Girls, 227, Facts Of Life and Amen. NBC ruled Thursdays for 20 years now, it was bound to change.

NBC ruled the airwaves for the 80's and the 90's... now it looks like CBS is taking over again

On the one hand, it is far too early to be sure if NBC has lost its Must-See-TV Thursday line-up.

On the other hand, everything in TVShow Analyzer's post is true. It appears that CBS has taken over and I would not be surprised if it does turn out to be the case for the whole season. But, things can change. And who knows, next Thursday we may see things switched up again.

CBS owned Thursdays last season as well, just not by as big a margin as this season, at least in viewers. The real change has occured in adults where "CSI" is trouncing "The Apprentice" (doubling it in viewers), "Survivor" is winning at 8pm in adults and by 6mil in viewers (it beat original episodes of "Friends" in adults just a hand ful of times). NBC's only strong hold is 10pm, where "ER" is still winning is adults (though only by about 30% now, as opposed to 70% last season), but is being beaten in adults.

I have to laugh at Trump's ego. He was only Ellen yesterday and said "You know, last week's Apprentice had the biggest ratings for the network since May." He didn't mention that they were down 20% in viewers and adults, nor that he only held that title for exactely one hour- until the 11th season premiere of "ER" at 10pm.

Honestly, I can't see anything stopping CBS on Thursday. NBC has no wild cards up its sleeves and alot of problems to worry about on other nights. CBS's shows are still in their prime (except maybe "Survivor"), while NBC's last stronghold on the night is "ER"- now in its 11th season and declining. "Joey" is not working out as well as NBC would have hoped, and "The Apprentice" lost alot of viewers.

To be blunt, none of the shows on the Thursday night lineup measure up the caliber of the 80s early 90s Thursday night lineup that included Cheers and The Cosby show. and satuday night is seen a wasteland of reality shows and is dead. so if NBC keeps putting this crap on Thursday night they will lose.

Good! CBS' shows are of so much better quality.

Originally posted by King Forrester
To be blunt, none of the shows on the Thursday night lineup measure up the caliber of the 80s early 90s Thursday night lineup that included Cheers and The Cosby show. and satuday night is seen a wasteland of reality shows and is dead. so if NBC keeps putting this crap on Thursday night they will lose. you can say that again.

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
nothing lasts forever. CBS ruled Saturday nights in the 70's with shows like MASH, AITF, MTM and the sort, but yet in the 80's, NBC was who ruled Saturdays with Golden Girls, 227, Facts Of Life and Amen. NBC ruled Thursdays for 20 years now, it was bound to change.

NBC had a good run of ruling Thursday nights for 20 years, especially in the 80s with Cosby, Family Ties, Cheers and Night Court. One would plan their life around that night. ABC ruled Fridays in the 70s with Brady Bunch, Partridge Family, Nanny and the Professor and Room 222.

For 23 years Lucy ruled Monday nights on CBS.

It looks like ABC and Fox have just decieded to roll over and play dead on Thursdays. Fox shows a crazy videos show and ABC, not much better.

Originally posted by Dr. John Becker
It looks like ABC and Fox have just decieded to roll over and play dead on Thursdays. Fox shows a crazy videos show and ABC, not much better.

FOX can't do anything yet because the baseball postseason is coming. After it ends, they'll air last summer's hit the OC on Thursdays.

Originally posted by Brian Damage
FOX can't do anything yet because the baseball postseason is coming. After it ends, they'll air last summer's hit the OC on Thursdays.

why does Fox do that? why not air season premieres now and everything, and then go into a break come World Series, instead of jerking fans around until NOVEMBER for new episodes?

Originally posted by mstewart
NBC had a good run of ruling Thursday nights for 20 years, especially in the 80s with Cosby, Family Ties, Cheers and Night Court. One would plan their life around that night. ABC ruled Fridays in the 70s with Brady Bunch, Partridge Family, Nanny and the Professor and Room 222.

For 23 years Lucy ruled Monday nights on CBS.

ABC Fridays were never actually ratings hits back then.
Although most of those are classics today.

Originally posted by barwars
ABC Fridays were never actually ratings hits back then.
Although most of those are classics today.


I doubt if lots of viewers were watching ABC at 8pm on Fridays between 1972 and 1977. Maybe between 1969 and 1971 there were lots of viewers tuned into ABC on Fridays at 8pm but definetly not after 1971.

Originally posted by mstewart
NBC had a good run of ruling Thursday nights for 20 years, especially in the 80s with Cosby, Family Ties, Cheers and Night Court. One would plan their life around that night. ABC ruled Fridays in the 70s with Brady Bunch, Partridge Family, Nanny and the Professor and Room 222.

For 23 years Lucy ruled Monday nights on CBS. i love your nickname for jeff i know nothing about good programming zucker its one letter away from what most viewers think he is

sorry i posted under the wrong quote

Originally posted by Riff
Considering how clueless Mother Zucker is, I'm amazed NBC's managed to have any hits ("The Apprentice," "Las Vegas," "Crossing Jordan," "Fear Factor") while he's been there.

Then again, developing four hits in four years is nothing to crow about. He's probably one more terrible season away from joining Susan Lyne, Lloyd Braun and Jordan Levin. (Unless he can pin all the blame on Kevin Reilly, as I'm sure he'll try to.) i love your nickname for jeff i know nothing about good programming zucker its one letter away from what most viewers think he is

Originally posted by snl75
i love your nickname for jeff i know nothing about good programming zucker its one letter away from what most viewers think he is The only ones worst then him, are those idiots that are running FOX.

off-topic but

Mr. Roper, when I saw your avatar, before I noticed Tom Hanks (and that it's Bosom Buddies), I thought that was the Facts Of Life in your avatar, and I was "they don't look right here", lol.

I'm not surprised; "Joey" isn't very good, I've never liked "Will and Grace" and "The Apprentice" and "E.R."'s gotten too soap opera-ish.

I guess Friends was truly the last Must See TV show for NBC. Plus NBC made HUGE mistakes last season. The biggest being the Coupling debacle. I think NBC should've held on to Whoopi...although not strong in the ratings, it had a loyal following and put on a less competitive night (Not against American Idol) it might have turned a profit. But these youngbucks running NBC nowadays forget about shows like Cheers, and Seinfeld who had loyal followings in the beginning and gradually built gargantuan audiences.


One thing I don't understand is why NBC is so faithful to Scrubs, renewing it for 2 more seasons...although it has never been a ratings smash. But cancels other shows at the drop of a hat. Well at least it's a well thought out, well written creative show.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Superbatboy
I guess Friends was truly the last Must See TV show for NBC. Plus NBC made HUGE mistakes last season. The biggest being the Coupling debacle. I think NBC should've held on to Whoopi...although not strong in the ratings, it had a loyal following and put on a less competitive night (Not against American Idol) it might have turned a profit. But these youngbucks running NBC nowadays forget about shows like Cheers, and Seinfeld who had loyal followings in the beginning and gradually built gargantuan audiences.

I agree, Whoopi really could've become this generation's All In The Family. I suppose Whoopi was just a tad too controversial for a first-season show for NBC to bank on another year, but I would've liked to see her last longer. Her show was thought-provoking and topical and I think could've gone on for a few seasons.

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
I agree, Whoopi really could've become this generation's All In The Family. I suppose Whoopi was just a tad too controversial for a first-season show for NBC to bank on another year, but I would've liked to see her last longer. Her show was thought-provoking and topical and I think could've gone on for a few seasons.

And funny, too.
Besides the white chick who thought she was black.... they were all good characters.

Originally posted by barwars
And funny, too.
Besides the white chick who thought she was black.... they were all good characters.


NBC knew exactly what they were doing. The show was Garbage.

Originally posted by TVShow Analyzer
NBC knew exactly what they were doing. The show was Garbage.

Fear Factor's not?

It's surprizing because the show was actually showing some promise in the ratings early on. NBC should have moved it to Thursdays for the rest of the season, moved "Will & Grace" to Tuesdays, and then had "Whoppi" lead-off the night. Critics made it out to be crap, but the few times I saw it it wasn't that bad. Certainly better than "Father of The Pride."

"Scrubs" is actually not going that badly this season. If you look at all of NBC's sitcoms (yes, all four of them), for the situation it's in, it's probably performing the best. The last new episode built off FOTP by 11% in viewers and 23% in adults, winning the timeslot in adults 18-49.

I just can't get over how badly NBC is doing. Thursdays took a hit, as was expected, but Wednesday took a huge hit with "Lost," "CSI" and "Wife Swap" on the other networks ("Law & Order" was third in its timeslot for the last two weeks in adults), "Fear Factor" has taken a big hit, and now Sundays too, with "CI" and "American Dreams" both hitting series lows in the last two weeks thank to the strength of ABC on the night. It tied ABC last week in both viewers and adults for second place, when last season it was above the alphabet by 18% in viewers and 32% in adults. It's really quite scary.

Originally posted by Riff
It's not scary. It's beautiful!

Especially the "'American Dreams' ... hitting series lows" part. After ratings like this past Sunday's, I think I'm finally going to get a sweet Christmas bonus this year.

well, you know what will replace shows like American Dreams and Scrubs, right? REALITY CRAP. Even if you dislike those 2 shows, root for them all that you can because it's the lesser of two evils

ALL reality shows a garbage. I love good quality (scripted) entertainment .

Come on now, The Amazing Race is better than most scripted programs on tv.

Apparently, NBC is trying to get back into the game by copying ABC. They're ordering a seven year old pilot similar in premise to Desparate Housewives. How quickly the cloning begins.

I'm talking about re-runs of classics & new (episodes) of sitcoms I like nowadays.It was much better when I was a younger.(there was not as much reality tv,well they had real world but you know what I mean).


On behalf of all reality shows :
:barf: puke:

Yeah :lol::nod:

:yeahthat

Originally posted by Riff
I got a good title for this one. "Desperate Network Executives." :lol:

This show just how desparate NBC is. They used to have the shows that people copied, like Friends.

Originally posted by Riff
It's not scary. It's beautiful!

Especially the "'American Dreams' ... hitting series lows" part. After ratings like this past Sunday's, I think I'm finally going to get a sweet Christmas bonus this year.

Are there any shows you like? Let me guess reality tv?

Originally posted by Angela Micelli
Are there any shows you like? Let me guess reality tv?

rofl, that's what I don't get. I hate Reality TV with such passion I would rather see a Full House revival than "Who Wants To Adopt My Dog's Puppies"

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
rofl, that's what I don't get. I hate Reality TV with such passion I would rather see a Full House revival than "Who Wants To Adopt My Dog's Puppies"

:lol: I would take a two week marathon of Seinfeld over reality shows ;)

i would rather watch a program on the history of bedpans then watch any more realaty trash

wait i take back the bedpan remark because thats problay what the next realaty show will be about

AS for this week, as was mentioned above, "Joey" did finally increase in viewers (although only slightly, from 12.8mil to 13.3mil, but was badly beaten by "Survivor" in viewers and adults.

On the other side, "ER" hit another series low (which it's done three times so far this season) of just 16.9mil viewers. While that's still top 10, it's a far cry from what it used to be even 2 years ago.

I'm not as anti-reality as you guys seem to be. I'm an "Amazing Race" fanatic, which is why I'm so happy that "Clubhouse" is bombing so badly- "TAR" will likely come back in November in its timeslot. I also still keep up with Survivor, mostly because I have Fridays off and Thursday nights are to relax and there's nothing else on. "Wife Swap" was also hilarious, although I'd never make it appointment tv.

The reality show about bedpans? Perhaps on Fox, who seems to have used up every other idea. CBS and ABC have basically stopped experimenting with reality (CBS never really did), and both have the reality shows that they'll keep for a while. The WB and the UPN were never that heavily into it, while NBC is still falling into the trap, although less than it was last year at this time. As for Fox.....

The great thing about Lost and Desparate Houswives being big hits is that it's making the other networks reconsider their strategies. So the drama is back (despite it never really going way). When is the sitcom coming back?

Originally posted by db108108
When is the sitcom coming back?

Between sweeping the Emmys and heavy promotion.... I can see Arrested Development attracting a lot more viewers this year.

Originally posted by barwars
Between sweeping the Emmys and heavy promotion.... I can see Arrested Development attracting a lot more viewers this year.

I don't think the aging Simpsons can give this show a good lead-in. With Cold Case and Extreme Makeover: Home Edition airing opposite Arrested Development, the best I can see it doing is a distant 3rd place in its slot. The worst: maybe 4th place behind another critically acclaimed show but low viewership: American Dreams. The Simpsons will not win this season in its timeslot among viewers 18-49.

Best thing that can happen to Arrested Dvlopmt. is for FOX to cancel it and HBO to pick it up.

Originally posted by pavanbadal
Best thing that can happen to Arrested Dvlopmt. is for FOX to cancel it and HBO to pick it up.


I don't think that would be a good idea, because putting on HBO would cut off some of it's fans and it would end up cancelled on there.

Originally posted by db108108
AS for this week, as was mentioned above, "Joey" did finally increase in viewers (although only slightly, from 12.8mil to 13.3mil, but was badly beaten by "Survivor" in viewers and adults.

On the other side, "ER" hit another series low (which it's done three times so far this season) of just 16.9mil viewers. While that's still top 10, it's a far cry from what it used to be even 2 years ago.

I'm not as anti-reality as you guys seem to be. I'm an "Amazing Race" fanatic, which is why I'm so happy that "Clubhouse" is bombing so badly- "TAR" will likely come back in November in its timeslot. I also still keep up with Survivor, mostly because I have Fridays off and Thursday nights are to relax and there's nothing else on. "Wife Swap" was also hilarious, although I'd never make it appointment tv.

The reality show about bedpans? Perhaps on Fox, who seems to have used up every other idea. CBS and ABC have basically stopped experimenting with reality (CBS never really did), and both have the reality shows that they'll keep for a while. The WB and the UPN were never that heavily into it, while NBC is still falling into the trap, although less than it was last year at this time. As for Fox.....

The great thing about Lost and Desparate Houswives being big hits is that it's making the other networks reconsider their strategies. So the drama is back (despite it never really going way). When is the sitcom coming back? FOX and NBC are the worst when it comes to reality tv and they're going to pay the price in the next year or two. If FOX didn't have AI they would really be in trouble because they really have no new hits ( lets see how the OC does on Thursday). I really wouldn't be so anti-reality if the networks only had a few and kept their script programs turning out. I wish someone would come up with a great sitcom that would be a hit. The genre needs it.

Originally posted by mr roper
FOX and NBC are the worst when it comes to reality tv and they're going to pay the price in the next year or two. If FOX didn't have AI they would really be in trouble because they really have no new hits ( lets see how the OC does on Thursday). I really wouldn't be so anti-reality if the networks only had a few and kept their script programs turning out. I wish someone would come up with a great sitcom that would be a hit. The genre needs it. I agree, we need a hit sitcom. the networks just don't seem to be looking for scripted programming anymore. the reality shows would be so annoying if there were less of them and more sitcoms.

Originally posted by pavanbadal
Best thing that can happen to Arrested Dvlopmt. is for FOX to cancel it and HBO to pick it up.

Although creatively that would be much better.... it just wouldnt make any sense.

FOX is the company that makes the show.... if they don't air it on their network, it may not air at all.

What I think should be done is have it move to FX.

Originally posted by King Forrester
I don't think that would be a good idea, because putting on HBO would cut off some of it's fans and it would end up cancelled on there.

you're joking, right? What is a "flop" on Fox is a blockbuster on HBO. I am sure an HBO-ized Arrested Development would score higher ratings than Carnivale and Curb Your Enthusiasm at the very least, and those keep coming back because HBO's satisfied with their audiences.

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
you're joking, right? What is a "flop" on Fox is a blockbuster on HBO. I am sure an HBO-ized Arrested Development would score higher ratings than Carnivale and Curb Your Enthusiasm at the very least, and those keep coming back because HBO's satisfied with their audiences.

I think FX would be a wiser choice.
It's owned by FOX for one thing (as is AD)
and I dont get HBO.

The interest for unique scripted programming is coming back thanks to DH and Lost, but sitcoms, it seems to be a lost cause right now. Last week on the networks, there were a total of traditional 30 sitcoms on the air, representing 15 hours or just 14.4% of total airtime. It really is scary. And when saying "unique" in refering to dramas, I'm excluding CSI and Law & Order.

The Simpsons was doing really badly at the end of last season, with a few original episodes slipping below 8 million viewers. With the amazing strength of Home Edition this year, The Simpsons will be second in its timeslot in adults, third in viewers, a far cry from just 2 two years ago. This is not going to help AD, unfortunately.

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
you're joking, right? What is a "flop" on Fox is a blockbuster on HBO. I am sure an HBO-ized Arrested Development would score higher ratings than Carnivale and Curb Your Enthusiasm at the very least, and those keep coming back because HBO's satisfied with their audiences. It would be bad, because not everybody gets HBO and are not going to pay for it just to get one show.

Originally posted by King Forrester
It would be bad, because not everybody gets HBO and are not going to pay for it just to get one show.

I would actually pay for HBO if Arrested Development moved to it.

If Arli$$ could survive on HBO for god only knows how many seasons, I'm sure that AD could.

But to my fellow AD fans, we're just going to have to accept that AD is never going to be a hit. It's far to unique to be a hit, like it's only sitcom peer on network tv, Scrubs.

Scrubs is one of those shows that people will watch in 20 years and think: why wasn't that a hit? Even after 4 seasons, the show keeps getting better and better.

Originally posted by db108108
If Arli$$ could survive on HBO for god only knows how many seasons, I'm sure that AD could.

But to my fellow AD fans, we're just going to have to accept that AD is never going to be a hit. It's far to unique to be a hit, like it's only sitcom peer on network tv, Scrubs.

Scrubs is one of those shows that people will watch in 20 years and think: why wasn't that a hit? Even after 4 seasons, the show keeps getting better and better.

Very true.
I still dont understand why Scrubs isn't getting any Emmy love, when practically all critics adore it.

Hey, Roseanne never got any emmy love, so I guess it's a badge of honour.

Originally posted by King Forrester
It would be bad, because not everybody gets HBO and are not going to pay for it just to get one show.

actually, The Sopranos has been a massive hit, and that's only on HBO.

Sex And The City was one of the most popular sitcoms when it was on as well.

The Sopranos was/is a massive hit for HBO, but it's numbers would make it a middling hit for the broadcast networks, ranking in the 40s. Still that's pretty damn good considering the number of households that The Sopranos air in.

Originally posted by db108108
Hey, Roseanne never got any emmy love, so I guess it's a badge of honour.

Roseanne won and Emmy for Best Lead actress in a comedy in 93 and Laurie Metcalf won Best Supporting Actress 3 times. Though the Emmys never gave it a Best Comedy nod......which is weird as they seem to give Everybody Loves Raymond a nod every year.

Originally posted by barwars
Although creatively that would be much better.... it just wouldnt make any sense.

FOX is the company that makes the show.... if they don't air it on their network, it may not air at all.

What I think should be done is have it move to FX.

Even though FX is owned by Fox I'm sure it gets revenue through another branch ala HBO and Time Warner. From what I hear Arrested Developemrnt costs a lot to make so maybe FX isn't a good idea.

Even though AD is getting a lot of critical buzz I don't see it attracting that much of an audience. It's situation is comparable to that of SOAP's in the late 70's. SOAP won the Outstanding Comedy in it's debut year as well and ABC kept it on for 4 seasons despite bad ratings. Obviously, SOAP never made it to 100 episodes but it's selling well on DVD. Maybe AD will follow such a path.

I don't see it becoming the next Seinfeld or anything

If I'm not mistaken, Roseanne picked up a total of 6 emmys during its run, which is utterly riduculous considering that Cheers picked up almost 30. I'm not taking anything away from Cheers at all, but Roseanne was on the same level quality wise. Murphy Brown also picked up alot of emmys, and many consider that show far inferior to Roseanne.

Originally posted by db108108
If I'm not mistaken, Roseanne picked up a total of 6 emmys during its run, which is utterly riduculous considering that Cheers picked up almost 30. I'm not taking anything away from Cheers at all, but Roseanne was on the same level quality wise. Murphy Brown also picked up alot of emmys, and many consider that show far inferior to Roseanne.

Cheers also ran three seasons longer.

And didn't Roseanne (the person) drop from the Emmy list by choice at one point??

[QUOTE]Originally posted by barwars
[B]Cheers also ran three seasons longer.

Actually 2 seasons longer.

Cheers = 11 seasons
Roseanne = 9 seasons

Originally posted by Riff
Comparing "Arrested Development's" performance to "Soap's" is like comparing "Clubhouse's" to the World Series'. "Soap" did quite well its second and third seasons, when it was after "Barney Miller." (It was also a time slot hit in its first season, when it was after "Three's Company.") Then Tony Thomopoulos started moving it around the schedule in the last season, and succeeded in killing it. I guess he decided he just couldn't have it around one more second, what, with all the huge comedy hits he launched in 1981.

"Arrested Development" would have to pick up 5 million viewers to even be able to qualify as a time-slot hit.

ratings don't make a show good or bad tho. AD won the Emmy because it's fresh, fun and clever, even if it's under #100 in the ratings. American Idol is the top rated show on tv and I don't know anyone who isn't a teenybopper who'd argue that it's the best show on tv because of it's ratings

Originally posted by USTVFanFromUK
[QUOTE]Originally posted by barwars
[B]Cheers also ran three seasons longer.

Actually 2 seasons longer.

Cheers = 11 seasons
Roseanne = 9 seasons

Like many.... I try to forget Season 9 of Roseanne.








I kid
I kid
.... I actually liked the idea of them winning the lottery (would have made for a great finale).... but the "fantasy" stuff was just stupid.

Originally posted by barwars
Like many.... I try to forget Season 9 of Roseanne.








I kid
I kid
.... I actually liked the idea of them winning the lottery (would have made for a great finale).... but the "fantasy" stuff was just stupid.


I agree......I think the only episode I ever liked that season was the one with Roseanne and Jackie at the spa. Season 9 betrayed in many ways what that show was about.........a REAL family.

First rescheduling of the season....

Jack & Bobby and The Mountain switch timeslots and the bets news of all....

Clubhouse gets the boot to Saturdays at 8pm while The Amazing Race starts again November 16th at 9pm!!!

Originally posted by db108108
First rescheduling of the season....

Jack & Bobby and The Mountain switch timeslots and the bets news of all....

When will J&B air now??

Originally posted by barwars
When will J&B air now??

The Mountain currently airs Wednesdays at nine, so now J&B will be up against King of Queens, Bernie Mac, West Wing, Kevin Hill and The Bachelor.

It can't do much worse than it's doing now- it's really a last ditch attempt by the WB to save a series that's it's already ordered a full season of.

Damn I really hate these reality shows.They're kicking other shows of quality out the door.

they sure are

The Amazing Race is completely different from any other reality show.

There is no voting, no backstabbing, just a really long relay race.

Somebody who supports decathalons, but denounces The Amazing Race is a hypocrite.

That's what I love about TAR. It's better than most scripted programs on the air right now, if not better than all of the comedies airing. Seriously, I laughed more during the last edition of TAR than I laughed at any comedy last season.

I will say at least CBS doesn't go overboard with reality like the other networks do.

Originally posted by mr roper
I will say at least CBS doesn't go overboard with reality like the other networks do.

Which is odd seeing that they were the network that started it all.

I know, not technically, but reality TV wasn't a fad until Survivor debuted.

CBS is very selective about what reality series it airs- really only TAR and Survivor in the regular season and big Brother in the summer. I don't even think they tried any other reality series last summer, as opposed to NBC and Fox, which are airing whatever reality series they can get their hands on.

Reality tends to burn out quickly (witness Joe Millioniare), and does very little to help their respective networks. The turnover rate for these shows is so high that creating viewer loyalty is impossible, and if now reality series stand out (look at Fox), the network has nothing to fall back on. The gold standard, of course, is Survivor, which has lost only 6% of its viewers over the last 7 editions.

Hey ,
In the 50's to early 90's what did TV networks rely on ?