Well, they said they were going to shake up the tv world by moving towards 12 month and year programming,but apparently viewers are shaking them off and saying "no thanks." The following comes from my website: http://www.angelfire.com/tv/JustTV/news.html

Fox's Friday disaster
So you thought last season on Fox was bad with shows like "Wanda At Large" and "Luis" breaking down on Friday? Well, Fox, never exceeding expectations, it out to show that it can go just a little bit lower. It's line-up until November premiered last night, and boy, was it bad. "The Complex" started the night off with a microscopic 2.4 mil viewers, fifth in the timeslot, while "The Next Great Champ" improved only slightly to 2.8mil viewers. Those number represent just half of what Fox drew on the night last year- already a horrific number. Hey, Fox, I thought you were trying to make it "The Big Four," not the "Little Three" group of networks. When you start sliding back under 5 million viewers on multiple nights, you've got a big problem.
But the news was not all bad on Friday as NBC got it's first piece of good news of the season. "Medical Investigation" debuted on the night to a not-so-shabby 11.3mil viewers- losing only a few viewers from its Thursday premiere and building off its lead-in by a few hundred thousand viewers. Could NBC actually have something here? Don't bet on it. (September 11)

"Joey," "Apprentice" implode on impact
NBC is trying to spin this as a good thing, saying that it's satisfied with the premiere numbers, but how can it be happy with this? "Joey" premiered on Thursday to a weak 18.6mil viewers, which in itself doesn't look so bad, but it should have been so much more, considering that, a) It's a spin-off of "Friends," one of the most popular series of the last decade, b) It's had constant hype over the Olympics, c) It's on NBC's once infalliable Thursday night line-up, and d) the season hasn't even started yet and there was no competition! With series typically losing audience over the course of the season, "Joey" could be in the 14 to 16 million viewer range by November, giving NBC a reason to bring some of his old Friends back.
And then there's "The Apprentice." Remember how this was last season's great big new show, NBC's next new hope? Well, all of that went down the tubes on Thursday as the premiere registered a paltry 14mil viewers, half the number that tuned into the April finale and only two thirds of what the show averaged during its first season. "Medical Investigation" followed that up with an okay 11.8mil viewers.
So what does this all mean? So far NBC has has a disasterous start to the season, as is evident on Monday, Tuesday and now Thursday. I had been prediciting 10% declines for the network, but at the rate this is going, it could be even bigger than expected.
Overall, Thursday was won by ABC with the season opener of football (16.9mil viewers), while CBS was third, losing no audience at all with "Big Brother" (8.8), "CSI" (13.5mil) and "Trace" (11mil). The only other programming of note was on the WB, which averaged 3.6mil viewers on the night thanks to a special starring Bill Engvall and "Blue Collar TV." Hey, WB, this Blue Collar thing really is working. Why not bring back "The Jeff Foxsworthy Show" and call it a night? Okay, maybe not. Also of note was an odd performance by "WWE Smackdown," which followed up its highest numbers in two years with some of its lowest ever- just 3.8mil viewers and a tiny 1.2/3 in adults 18-49. (September 11)


So I guess it's pretty clear now that CBS is going to run away with the season. I'm also guess that ABC will be flat, and both the WB and the UPN will show growth. NBC and Fox are both in for a big tumble.

oh come on, who really expected Joey to be as big as Friends?

Remember Frasier? He lasted 11 years and was a success... yet he NEVER was as popular in his peak as Cheers was in it's prime. I think Joey has a chance at being a hit... it probably will never be as big as it's parent show... but I have NEVER heard anyone call Frasier a flop because it was never quite as huge as Cheers was.

Maybe, but this is a HUGE drop. Nobody expected Joey to be Friends, but 18.6 mil viewers is not a great number for a new series that's had the hype that Joey has had. Granted at between 14 and 16 million viewers, it'll still be a solid player for NBC and in no danger of cancellation, NBC really has to be concerned for the number for "The Apprentice." 14 million viewers is not acceptable for that show, and it could drag down the entire night.

Keep in mind that the season hasn't even started yet. "CSI" and "Survivor" have yet to premiere and they have the potential to drag down NBC's numbers even further.

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
oh come on, who really expected Joey to be as big as Friends?

Remember Frasier? He lasted 11 years and was a success... yet he NEVER was as popular in his peak as Cheers was in it's prime. I think Joey has a chance at being a hit... it probably will never be as big as it's parent show... but I have NEVER heard anyone call Frasier a flop because it was never quite as huge as Cheers was.

Well, Frasier wasn't as popular as Cheers, but it received even more critical acclaim. That's why I don't care about these ratings yet - especially in the beginning of the season. Ratings does not equal quality. Joey may become a better show than Friends.

Which is a possibility. Joey is in no danger of cancellation, nor is The Apprentice. But they're certainly not what NBC wants them to be.

Generally, when a show with as much expectations as Joey premieres, it's about as big as it's going to get. Frasier never rereached the ratings zenith that it did in its first season, although it was a medium-high hit for most of its run.

NBC has seen bad numbers for all of the new shows its premiere, as well as all of the returning ones so far, save Medical Investigation, which was actually a nice surprise on Friday. NBC's last big testing ground will be Wednesday, but CBS is going to take a big bite out of that.

With the Olympics as a platform, NBC should be doing alot better than it is.

Originally posted by db108108
Generally, when a show with as much expectations as Joey premieres, it's about as big as it's going to get. Frasier never rereached the ratings zenith that it did in its first season, although it was a medium-high hit for most of its run

Frasier was huge it's first season, then went down a bit in the second and third years... but I would say it was as popular in 1998-2000 when it took over Seinfeld's timeslot as it was in the 1993-1994 tv season

If you compare the ratings to the general erosion in network ratings, you're probably right. "Frasier" was never the grand slam huge hit that Friends, Seinfeld or Cheers was, but it was a show that NBC could depend on to bring an audience to a night (Tuesday) that would otherwise had been written off. If NBC hadn't screwed around with Tuesdays so much, Frasier probably wouldn't have lost a much audience as it did in its final two seasons.

Originally posted by Riff
NBC's having plenty of disasters. One is called "Hawaii." Another is called "Father of the Pride." And the third is called "Scrubs." That last one's the biggest disaster of all. so far, i think "Hawaii" is easily the best new show of the season, regardless of ratings.

"Father of the Pride" is so-so, and may or may not make it, but i don't see what the problem with "Scrubs" is - it seems as good as it ever was.... so what's the problem.

Joey is here to stay, for at least this season, what else have they GOT to replace it with?

I hope the Apprentice flops worse than that rug on "the Donald"'s head :cuss:

Originally posted by robyrob
but i don't see what the problem with "Scrubs" is - it seems as good as it ever was.... so what's the problem.

Me neither. I really like that show. Easily one of the better shows currently airing.

Scrubs is excellent, probably one of the best sitcoms on the air. fortunately, it's alreayd been renewed for another season

NBC and FOX will clearly lose ground from last year. CBS should be flat from last year. ABC for sure will be gaining ground. Desperate Housewives and Lost should be big. And Rodney will benefit from According to Jim.

I would hope that ABC will see gains- it's got a fairly stable line-up with a good flow. I would say that CBS will be on the upside, showing growth on Wednesdays & Saturdays.

did Scrubs' ratings really plummet? I noticed someone calling it one of the duds of the fall

Unfortunately, yes.

The season premiere drew 8.5mil viewers, down from the 12.4 that FOTP drew. Week two drew 7.8mil versus the 9.6 that FOTP drew. Scrubs has always relied on timeslot support- it's never been and won't ever be a stand alone hit. Unfortunately, NBC doesn't have any place else to put it, unless, when FOTP gets cancelled (which will happen), it moved W&G to Tuesdays and leaves "Scrubs" as is. Either way, the sitcom is pretty much dead on NBC, seeing as how it's only got two that would officially count as hits- Joey & W&G, and the latter is way past its prime.

Originally posted by Riff


I don't think they're quite ready to hit the panic button on the two Thursday night things, but I have a gut feeling Mother Zucker promised a little more to advertisers than they got.

heh heh

All the worst to NBC. Maybe you'll know how ABC feels right now.

the problem with all the channels is that they all catered to the reality tv fad instead of trying to find sitcoms to have time to grow. NBC cancelled many a sitcom that could be a reasonable success now, and they're suffering for it. NBC forgot back in 2002 that Friends and Frasier were not going to last forever, and now they're getting their just deserts by shafting new sitcoms and dramas because they couldn't be patient and wait until it gets big in it's third or fourth season (Seinfeld would be gone in 4 weeks by today's standards, Cheers maybe in 2), and went the cop-out way and did reality garbage.

I do not think Joey will be as big as friends , but I thought the Premiere would , I blame the small numbers on Poor Sheduling (Its Fall Lineup should not start for like 2 weeks) but also that Joey Premiere hit the internet about 5-7 weeks ago.

I think year round schedules are a bad idea.
As for reality shows.... they work best in the summer. I think networks should stick to dramas and sitcoms for the fall/winter/spring.... and then roll out the reality shows for the summer. (think about it.... Survivor had its highest ratings during the summer)

Originally posted by Raisingdad2004
I do not think Joey will be as big as friends , but I thought the Premiere would , I blame the small numbers on Poor Sheduling (Its Fall Lineup should not start for like 2 weeks) but also that Joey Premiere hit the internet about 5-7 weeks ago.

actually, where I live, a public access channel aired the Joey pilot on the same day the Friends finale aired... and I've heard similar things happen in other places. A lot of people who might;ve tuned in had already seen the pilot sometime in the last four months, so for them that night would basically just be a rerun

actually, I'm glad the season has started earlier. This is how it was in the 70's. Sometimes it takes too damn long for a new season to start, think of Fox and how nothing starts until Halloween week because of the World Series.

I don't know about the year round scheduling thing. I think that if there were distinctly different series for different times of the year, it may work. But Fox is getting itself into trouble because it premiering shows in the summer that are running into fall. They premiered okay for the summer, but numbers slumped, and now it has nothing new to offer viewers in the fall, which is why it's taking such a dive. Last week Fox averaged only 5.7 million viewers with its "until November" Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, thursday and Friday schedules in tact. It's going to be a very long season for Fox, at least until "Idol" comes on board in January.

As for NBC, they were expecting very big things with the Olympic promotional platform, and so far it's not happening. It was pointed out best above- NBC has killed its sitcoms. The net was airing 18 of them only 7 years ago, now it's down to 4. It's got to open more timeslots for sitcoms.

Originally posted by db108108
I don't know about the year round scheduling thing. I think that if there were distinctly different series for different times of the year, it may work. But Fox is getting itself into trouble because it premiering shows in the summer that are running into fall. They premiered okay for the summer, but numbers slumped, and now it has nothing new to offer viewers in the fall, which is why it's taking such a dive. Last week Fox averaged only 5.7 million viewers with its "until November" Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, thursday and Friday schedules in tact. It's going to be a very long season for Fox, at least until "Idol" comes on board in January.

actually, Fox might be investing too much on Idol. I bet this next season will be when it goes downhill finally. Fantasia just frankly wasn't as hot as Clay or Ruben was. People were buzzing about Clay 4 months after, yet it's been barely 4 months since Fantasia won and who has mentioned her lately? Plus, I think reality shows are going to start going on their way out

I think it's a little premature to call "Joey" a disaster. I doubt it will ever have the same audience share that "Friends" had. NBC had better accept that.

Originally posted by TJL
I think it's a little premature to call "Joey" a disaster. I doubt it will ever have the same audience share that "Friends" had. NBC had better accept that.

:nod: so true, there will never be another Friends for NBC, I think Joey is here for the long haul, and no it may not get Friends sized numbers. I don't think Frasier got as high of ratings as Cheers did during it's run did it? :)

Originally posted by Angela Micelli
:nod: so true, there will never be another Friends for NBC, I think Joey is here for the long haul, and no it may not get Friends sized numbers. I don't think Frasier got as high of ratings as Cheers did during it's run did it? :)

Nope. Cheers had both better and worse ratings than Frasier.

Originally posted by barwars
Nope. Cheers had both better and worse ratings than Frasier.

Thanks, I wasn't sure.

NBC just can't expect another show to get the ratings Friends did. That's expecting alot :lol:

Well, Joey is guaranteed 24 episodes.... so we'll see what happens later this year.

(although I think Id be shocked if it wasn't picked up for at least a second season)

There's no doubt that Joey will last at least 3 seasons on NBC because the network hasn't got a plan B. After Will & Grace is gone, baring a miracle, NBC may well be down to a schedule of two sitcoms.

NBC is going through what ABC did a few years ago with the collapse of Millionaire. Whereas ABC relied too heavily on just that one show, NBC has relied too heavily on a handful of shows. "Joey" will be a solid replacement for "Friends," but the network has nothing to replace "Frasier." The West Wing is probably in its last season, and if L&O goes down opposite "CSI: NY" (which is will), the peacock really is in dire straights. It's going to have to rebuild Tuesday and Wednesday nights for sure, while it will have to find bigger hits for Thursday, Friday and Sunday.

ABC, meanwhile, looks like it will finally grow this season and it has tackled its problems and now seems to be on the upside of things. It's got a really good flow to its line-up and looks to do well on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday. CBS, of course, will likely take every night in viewers. Honestly, there isn't one night that I see CBS losing at this point.

"Idol"s finale had to be a big wake-up call for Fox. While 32 million viewers is great, that was down from 40 million the season before. I see "Idol" plateauing this season and declining next season. Nothing seems to be working for the network. "The Complex," "The Next Great Champ" were both DOA in a huge way, while Wednesday is not turning up great numbers, nor is Thursday. Sunday was showing huge declines last season. What's it going to do?

Originally posted by db108108
"Idol"s finale had to be a big wake-up call for Fox. While 32 million viewers is great, that was down from 40 million the season before. I see "Idol" plateauing this season and declining next season. Nothing seems to be working for the network. "The Complex," "The Next Great Champ" were both DOA in a huge way, while Wednesday is not turning up great numbers, nor is Thursday. Sunday was showing huge declines last season. What's it going to do?

well, how many more years can people sit and watch people singing karaoke and be fascinated? Karaoke is better when the singer is drunk and sucks and off-key. So Simon, Paula and Randy miss the point of the covers.

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
the problem with all the channels is that they all catered to the reality tv fad instead of trying to find sitcoms to have time to grow. NBC cancelled many a sitcom that could be a reasonable success now, and they're suffering for it. NBC forgot back in 2002 that Friends and Frasier were not going to last forever, and now they're getting their just deserts by shafting new sitcoms and dramas because they couldn't be patient and wait until it gets big in it's third or fourth season (Seinfeld would be gone in 4 weeks by today's standards, Cheers maybe in 2), and went the cop-out way and did reality garbage. you hit the nail on the head about nbc. buffy slayer 79 it used to be my fave network but they are getting what they desivere heck i almost never used to watch anything on fox or the wb but becuse nbc is so bad i fliped around the dial and found that 70s show this summer and im staying with it same with gilmore girls 2 summers ago i know it might be the last season for both these shows but thats my point its sad when shows that are in there 5th and 7th years entertain me more then newer shows

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
actually, Fox might be investing too much on Idol. I bet this next season will be when it goes downhill finally. Fantasia just frankly wasn't as hot as Clay or Ruben was. People were buzzing about Clay 4 months after, yet it's been barely 4 months since Fantasia won and who has mentioned her lately? Plus, I think reality shows are going to start going on their way out

I hope you're right about Idol. Kelly was big, Clay was big...people from AI3 were forgotten except by diehard AI fans.

Originally posted by Riff
"NBC has renewed its hit medical comedy "Scrubs"
(Tuesdays, 9:30-10 p.m. ET) for two more seasons through 2005-06, it was
announced today by Jeff Zucker, President, NBC Universal Television Group
and Kevin Reilly, President, NBC Entertainment."

" 'This show just keeps getting better each season and we're looking forward
to even better things for at another two more years,' said Zucker. Scrubs
has done everything we've asked of it on every level and this renewal is
well-deserved.' "

Ha, ha!

Yeah, let's see how long this lasts. I smell "Lois & Clark."


:confused: What's the I smell "Lois and Clark" about?

You mean the fact that ABC basically killed the show because they wanted to resurrect Wonderful World of Disney on Sundays?

just because Scrubs isn't a ratings blockbuster doesn't make it unworthy of being on the air.

I mean, Seinfeld didn't become a ratings hit until season 4, and it's regarded as a classic. Cheers didn't take off until season 3, and it's a legendary series. You can be a good tv series and not be a ratings blockbuster. If anything, considering the reality tv GARBAGE that penetrates the airwaves (if American Idol is the #1 series, tv is currently in hell), it's the smaller cult shows like Arrested Development and Scrubs that are the ones keeping television watchable at this point.

mash ended its first season in 46 th place ans it ended up running 11 years networks really need to give time for shows to grow i mean theres panic at nbc right now because joey didnt get blockbuster ratings last week one other show that got bad ratings its first year was a little thing called saturday night live and its about to start its 30th year

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
just because Scrubs isn't a ratings blockbuster doesn't make it unworthy of being on the air.

I mean, Seinfeld didn't become a ratings hit until season 4, and it's regarded as a classic. Cheers didn't take off until season 3, and it's a legendary series. You can be a good tv series and not be a ratings blockbuster.

Very true. But unfortunatly, things now are different in the world of TV. Network TV has serious competition from cable, DVDs, the internet, as opposed to a few short years ago when the big three networks could nurture a show that had so so ratings.

If a show like Cheers aired today, it wouldn't have three seasons to catch on. You'd better be winning your timeslot, or you're gone by midseason.

If a show doesn't break out by its fourth season, it's not going to happen. As much as I would love to see Scrubs in the top 10, it's not going to happen at this point.

Regardless, it's already been renewed for a fifth season.

Originally posted by db108108
If a show doesn't break out by its fourth season, it's not going to happen. As much as I would love to see Scrubs in the top 10, it's not going to happen at this point.

Regardless, it's already been renewed for a fifth season.

Seinfeld broke out in the second half of season 4, so there's still time, lol

CBS seems to be the only Network with sense , NBC is in Hell , ABC is doing OK (better than a few years ago) , and FOX , what Calendar are they using? They have got no chance until November with that line-up , and by that time most shows will have either Established themselves as good , so even though you may have though I am gonna watch ???? on Fox , turns out your new fave show is on at the same time.

Originally posted by Raisingdad2004
CBS seems to be the only Network with sense , NBC is in Hell , ABC is doing OK (better than a few years ago) , and FOX , what Calendar are they using? They have got no chance until November with that line-up , and by that time most shows will have either Established themselves as good , so even though you may have though I am gonna watch ???? on Fox , turns out your new fave show is on at the same time.

and the funny part is....

outside of Survivor and Big Brother (which concludes it's run near the beginning of the fall tv season), CBS is by far the least reality-obsessed network, and yet they do phenomenally

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
and the funny part is....

outside of Survivor and Big Brother (which concludes it's run near the beginning of the fall tv season), CBS is by far the least reality-obsessed network, and yet they do phenomenally

Likely because their Line Up is varied , comedys ,drama's , some reality. Its all good.

CBS knows who its audience is and programs for them. They're not 18-49 oriented so they pretty much skipped the show reality craze (which is still sweeping Fox and NBC, still!). Instead, the built a solid line-up of comedies, dramas and newsmagazines, with "Survivor" thrown in the mix. At this rate, it'll be years before anybody comes close to what they're doing.

The UPN and ABC are also branding themselves very well, and the WB, although with trouble areas, is becoming alot more focused.

Originally posted by BuffySlayer79
... Big Brother (which concludes it's run near the beginning of the fall tv season)

BuffySlayer79, are you saying that Big Brother is finally going to call it quits, with no Big Brother 6 in 2005? That's one show that's been on five years too long ... :rolleyes:

Originally posted by James
BuffySlayer79, are you saying that Big Brother is finally going to call it quits, with no Big Brother 6 in 2005? That's one show that's been on five years too long ... :rolleyes:

I meant to say that Big Brother's runs usually wind up towards the beginning of the tv season, tho I suppose I can see how it looked like I meant it's ending. Big Brother isn't TOO bad, at least it's more redeeming than that filth called Fear Factor.

Also American Idol , may not even return , or return without Simon.

Not sure if you guys know , But Simon Cowel made his own TV Show "The X Factor" and its basicly Pop (american) Idol , so the creator of Pop (american) Idol is suing Simon.

Simon Cowell in on contract with Idol for 5 editions total. After that, he says he's gone.

An appendium that the meat of this threat- the second week of "Joey." The show drew 15.4mil viewers, down 17% from its premiere with "Survivor" drawing 20.2mil, which was also down from it's previous premieres. "W&G" was actually NBC highest rated show on the night with 16.5mil viewers, while "The Apprentice" drew a still-not-great 16mil.

On Friday, Fox was even worse off with only 2.3mil viewers watching "The Complex" and a miniscule 1.9mil watching a repeat of "The Next Great Champ"- sixth in the timeslot, and I would imagine even further down if basic cable shows were taken into account.

If "Joey" bottoms out here, that would be good news for NBC, but such a quick drop from its premiere is really troubling, especially since, at 15.4mil viewers, that's lower than any original "Friends" episode (series low- 15.5mil viewers opposite the season finale of Survivor Outback)

As for Fox, god only know. Averaging 2.1mil viewers on any night is simply not acceptable for one of the little networks, let alone one of the big 4.

About :Big Brother, it's not too bad. The only edition I watched was the third, and I'm told that was by far the best. CBS always airs the finale during the first week of the new season. The third edition, which had the potential to go out HUGE, CBS aired against the premiere of "Friends," which crushed it.

Sounds to me like reality shows are losing steam with viewers, I think people are getting sick of them, they're not original anymore, every time you turn a channel there's a reality show :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Angela Micelli
Sounds to me like reality shows are losing steam with viewers, I think people are getting sick of them, they're not original anymore, every time you turn a channel there's a reality show :rolleyes: I hope so. I'd rather watch a test pattern than a reality show. Most of them are real bad. Networks need to turn their attention to script shows which can run for years and have a syndicated afterlife.

Originally posted by mr roper
I hope so. I'd rather watch a test pattern than a reality show. Most of them are real bad. Networks need to turn their attention to script shows which can run for years and have a syndicated afterlife.

:rofl: at test pattern

Yeah I mean how long of a lifespan do reality shows really have? Do you think we'll be seeing them in repeats in 20 years like we do with Sitcoms and Dramas I don't

Nope, they don't repeat. Syndication is going to feel the biggest effects of this in two or three years as the older shows die off (like Raymond, Friends and Seinfeld), but there is nothing big to replace them. What's coming up in syndication anyway? On CBS, there's Yes, Dear and Still Standing, neither like to draw anything, on NBC there's "Scrubs," which'll probably get picked up by a cable network, on Fox there's "Bernie Mack," which is already burned out due to Fox's idiocy, on the WB there "Reba," which'll probably do well and "Grounded For Life," which almost nobody knows exists and on ABC there's "According To Jim" and "George Lopez," neither of which have been big hits to begin with. Syndication is really screwed and this will impact the networks as they'll have even less timeslot support in the 7pm hour leading into their primetime line-ups.

I'm not as down on reality as most people on these boards seem to be. I think reality should be used sparringly, like on CBS, the UPN and the WB, and not let it overrun the entire line-up, like Fox has done. These shows are so cheap to produce that there's almost no incentive to wait if they don't perform well, so what you see is a dizzing turn-over rate, which produces no viewer loyalty, which is why Fox is so screwed right now. ABC is recovering from their reality binge of 2000-2002, while NBC is still dabbling, with mixed results.

That said, if you treat reality shows like regular series like CBS has done and try to grow viewer loyalty, you get great results. Survivor, overall, has been the top rated reality series ever. The Amazing Race is finally catching on because CBS was very patient and knew that eventually viewers would come to it because it is a spectacular show. (I've always been with the show, and am now wondering- what's taken you guys so long to catch on?)

ABC will probably have good results with Wife Swap because it's giving it heavy promotion and it comitted to the idea. Besides, what else has it got to air Wednedays at 10pm? The best show it's tried there, Karen Sisco, last but a few weeks. Once & Again, one of the best shows on this decade, got crushed there.

Meanwhile, over on Fox, the amount of reality shows they got is stupifying. With nowhere and no time to promote them all, they all look the same and viewers are tuning them out.

if Will And Grace is now Thursday's top series on NBC... I wonder if NBC can talk them on staying another season or two, since I had heard rumors of this being their last year.

It definitely changes the dynamic. If W&G continues to top Joey, I'd think that NBC would be hard pressed to let it go, and even more hard pressed not to move it to Tuesdays. I don't think that anybody expect W&G to be Thursdays top series. We'll see how this plays out in the upcoming weeks.

Originally posted by Angela Micelli

Yeah I mean how long of a lifespan do reality shows really have? Do you think we'll be seeing them in repeats in 20 years like we do with Sitcoms and Dramas I don't

I agree. Reality shows provide the networks with quick ratings profits, but they will not provide anyone with the moulah in syndication that traditonal progamming (sitcoms and dramas) does.

Originally posted by db108108

ABC will probably have good results with Wife Swap because it's giving it heavy promotion and it comitted to the idea. Besides, what else has it got to air Wednedays at 10pm? The best show it's tried there, Karen Sisco, last but a few weeks. Once & Again, one of the best shows on this decade, got crushed there.


Two great examples of outstanding programs that were ignored by ABC.
Reality shows are cheap to produce, as opposed to a drama or sitcom, so what does a network care if thier latest "Apprentice" knockoff bombs?
Those shows are cannon fodder to them. Just crank out another one.

As a fan of a few reality shows, I do agree that they have lost something.
They were nice when they were a rarity.
Maybe 1 or 2 per network.
But now they're everywhere.

Survivor shouldve ended with "All Stars"
but, Last Comic Standing keeps me watching, but for comedy, not for reality.

The Amazing Race is on its own. Its a reality show like no other, its more like a sporting event than a game show. There are no votes, no alliances -- just people in a really, really long relay-race.

TAR is my favorite tv series, rivaling Roseanne for top honours as my favorite tv series ever. I can't wait for the finale!

As for O&A, you can't really say that it was ignored by ABC, it did last three (or four, can't remember) seasons, but it just never caught on with viewers. At 4 seasonsm that's a pretty long lifespan for a tv series.

Karen Sisco? Well, ABC did drop the ball there, especially when it didn't bring it back midseason like it said it would. It was a show with alot of potential, but ABC really did blow it.

hasn't Karen Sisco gone to USA and being made for them now?

Originally posted by barwars
As a fan of a few reality shows, I do agree that they have lost something.
They were nice when they were a rarity.
Maybe 1 or 2 per network.
But now they're everywhere.

my sentiment exactly. I didn't hate reality shows back when there were maybe 3 reality programs on television. But then after Survivor boomed, suddenly every type of reality show possible was being made and it took over television.

Originally posted by db108108
Nope, they don't repeat. Syndication is going to feel the biggest effects of this in two or three years as the older shows die off (like Raymond, Friends and Seinfeld), but there is nothing big to replace them.

Translation: There is hope for The Brady Bunch and The Wonder Years to come back to syndication on the "Big 3" networks! :woohoo:

It's possible. Remotely possible, but possible.

I think that when the sydie drought occurs, networks will step up their sitcom production, but it'll be too late.

Originally posted by db108108
Nope, they don't repeat. Syndication is going to feel the biggest effects of this in two or three years as the older shows die off (like Raymond, Friends and Seinfeld), but there is nothing big to replace them.

it is funny, I was arguing with a friend who was born in 1972 but loves the reality tv shows (he says they're here to stay), and he was all "who cares? what's the point?" when I said syndicated programs will never last in reruns, and people won't be getting introduced (and reintroduced) to them in 20 years or so... and he said "who cares? why does that matter?".


However, the guy is a stinking hypocrite. He was born in 1972 and his favorite tv show of all time in I Love Lucy... he obviously forgets that if it wasn't for syndication, he would've never seen that show as it ended 15 years before he was born.

It's possible. Remotely possible, but possible.

I think that when the sydie drought occurs, networks will step up their sitcom production, but it'll be too late.

I think USA is only airing repeats of KS

Originally posted by James
Translation: There is hope for The Brady Bunch and The Wonder Years to come back to syndication on the "Big 3" networks! :woohoo:

In your dreams.
That would never happen.

Originally posted by barwars
In your dreams.
That would never happen.

Nope it wouldn't, the big "3" networks would have no interest in those shows nowadays

Originally posted by Riff
And "Cheers" took off after it won the best comedy Emmy in 1983, but I digress.

Actually, it didn't take off until TCS premiered in 1984.

Originally posted by Riff
Actually, it didn't. It was a hit the season before. (It cremated an ABC sitcom called "It's Not Easy" and its replacement, "Masquerade"... which, ironically, starred Kirstie Alley). It was second in its time slot behind "Simon & Simon," but first in a few demographics. "TCS" just took it farther up the ladder. If it were still in the toilet two seasons in a row, you really think it would have seen Fall, 1984?

Actually, yeah. Because Brandon Tartikoff loved the series.

Another appendium to the ratings part of this thread- last week Fox had the lowest rated show on the air- I can't even remember this happening, at least not since the WB and the UPN came to being. The Friday repeat of "Next Great Champ" drew just 1.5mil viewers, by far the lowest rated program that Fox has ever aired in the timeslot. Fox has yanked the repeats effective immediately.

Also, CSI Miami premiere to 22mil viewers last night, crushing NBC's LAX, which came up with 8.1mil. Looks like this won't last that long after all...

I wouldn't go as far all calling Scrubs and "instant hit." Yes, it's been in cushy timeslots, but it's also been in really, really bad ones, like right now. I know that when Caroline, Susan and Cosby flatlined, they all have been moved out of their cushy slots and promptly died, the NBC shows to Monday and Cosby to Friday.

I tend to think of Scrubs as more of a cult show than as a mainstream program. It is in the top 10 unreleased shows on TVshowsonDVD.com, which shows that while it might not be a bankable hit like Friends or Will And Grace for NBC, it's audience is very loyal and are true fans.

Some good news for "Scrubs." It held almost all of its 18-49 lead-in (3.8 vs 3.9) last night. Oddly enough, "Father of The Pride" is holding up extremely well, and "Scrubs" is slowly creeping up on it.

I guess I would probably change the subject heading on this one to Fox's fall disaster. NBC is sputtering, but Fox is dead.

On Wednesday, "That 70s Show" fell to its second consecutive series low at just 5.6 million viewers, and it was the top rated show of the night for the network! More than likely, this week it won't have anything cracking the 7 million viewer mark. Unless a miracle happens, I guess the three schedules a yet bit is officially dead.

and the odd thing is fox is replacing encores of next great champ on fridays with repeats of the simpsons and that 70s show for a few weeks thas sad when you have to fill time with an alredy low rated show because the one you just cancaled is even lower at least they will make a few dollars on the reruns i was wondering has fox ever used the simpsons as a stopgap program before? i know 70s show has pluged holes before im just not sure about the simpsons.

Fox used to use the program like that quite a bit, but as the buzz wore off the show, they pretty much stopped. They might be more enticed to do it now because of the massive pay increases they gave to the voices, and they need to cover it somehow.

News from Thursday night-

"Joey" slipped to 14.6mil viewers, while "Will & Grace" improved off of that slightly to 15mil. "Without A Trace" set a series record in viewers and adults and beat an originally "ER" for the first time in viewers and closed to gap in adults to 25%- the lowest its ever been.

The three "CSI"s together this week have drawn an audience of 71.1 million viewers.

thanks for the info