Today, the sad story of Justin Burgwinkel aired. A young man who joined the military, and disappeared under VERY strange circumstances. NEVER to be heard from or seen again. Leaving only a movie reference as a clue. Justin reference the movie WHITE SANDS, in which a small southwestern town sheriff finds a body in the desert with a suitcase and $500,000. He impersonates the man and stumbles into an FBI investigation

Apparently Justin had been acting strange, leaving at a moments notice, skipping out on important dates, only to rush off with a brief case.

After he disappeared his parents flew to from MA to CA where his car was found at an out of the way motel near the ocean. Locked in his trunk was his brief case. Only containing his wallet, which contained his credit cards, license, military ID, and his dog tags.
His mother appeared on UM and stated that she received NO help from the military, police, or anyone else. Not even anyone he served with would help.

He had previously told his g/f that if she ever found his dog tags lying around, that meant he was dead.

Im hoping some others saw this story or remember it from a previous airing. Ive searched and cant seem to find any information anywhere OTHER than on a website called burgwinkel.com which is a journal of a man named Joe Burgwinkel. BUT under the journal date of Novemeber 10 2003 the entry reads: paranoia big destroia- Why is the Department of Defense searching my site for the name 'justin'? Maybe they were looking for Justice, but they don't know how to spell it.

I know Im probably sounding ridiculous at this point, but does anyone else besides me think its strange that the Dept. of Defense is searching for this mans name? IN 2003!
:confused:

Yes, I remember that story very well! That is so interesting that the Department of Defense is searching! Another thing I find unusual is that I couldn't find anything with his name in it on the web! Its unusual that a case that isn't super old comes around where there is no information listed. You would think at least on a missing person website. Interesting.

By the way, if anyone has any better luck finding out any more on Justin Burgwinkel, please post. It would be interesting if any more is known on his mysterious disappearance.

Thanks CrystalDawn for corroborating my point of interest in that the Dept of Defense is searching for him on the web in 2003. After I started that topic I felt a bit silly for a moment, that I was reading into the Dept of Defense search.

Originally posted by SJP1313
Thanks CrystalDawn for corroborating my point of interest in that the Dept of Defense is searching for him on the web in 2003. After I started that topic I felt a bit silly for a moment, that I was reading into the Dept of Defense search.


It's not silly at all. When I saw that episode I found the info about DoD too. I even emailed Joe but got no response. Seems interesting that the sniper John Muhammad was stationed at Fort Ord and then Fort Lewis at the same times as Burgwinkel and then when info was being gathered for Muhammad's trial a search is conducted at this website. If Burgwinkel disappeared ten years ago, the Army would have that under records, right? Why search for his name?

MD

Thank you! Those are my exact thoughts. They would have that information on FILE!!! Why in the world would they have to look it up!
I also emailed Joe, but got no response. If you do get a response I would be very interested in hearing what he has to say about it.
Its all very suspicious to me. Im glad you responded!:wave:

I did some more research. It seems that the ip ranges do belong to DoD, but some people have been using them for spam or spoofing. Google "room BF655A" and you'll see what I'm talking about. It's weird, several people have said they contacted the department about receiving spam or several hits per day from these number blocks and nothing has ever been done.
Regarding Joe's site, he's using Movable Type for his blog, which would account for him being targeted. My question would be: If it's someone using as a spoof, why would they use a .mil site to search for Justin Burgwinkel (maybe they saw the Unsolved Mysteries segment and were curious?)

MD

WOW. Ok, how very interesting. Big brother may actually be watching. I did the search and found some very interesting stuff. From what Ive read, most ppl think that room BF655A is a spoof. But quite honestly I dont know about that. Im definatly going to continue reading everything that Ive found because I find it so interesting.

Are the specific websites listed being targeted by the Pentagon with pornographic postings? Only one was suffering from pornographic postings, whilst another suffered a security loophole exploitation. I don't know if it is the Pentagon, but it is certainly worthy of further investigation.


Is it possible that the Pentagon would do such a thing? Of course it's possible. The office in question is the Defense Information Systems Agency, but also listed under the IP lookup is the Defense Logistics Agency Special Studies Office. Maybe this is considered a "special study?"


As I was reading I came across one article of interest that makes some very good points. How and why would the military let someone spoof their name? Why would people want to be involved in spoofing the identity of a government office such as Room BF655A, it would be a pretty brainless thing to do. The military would obviously have offices which look at what information is available in the public domain - you would expect them to be on the look-out for any type of a breach of security.

This is just some of the info I came across. very ineteresting to say the least.

Please keep me updated... Ill do the same. Im off to read some more info on this!

Thanks again
SJP

So I just saw the episode on Lifetime in a rerun today. It sparked my interest as well. There dosen't appear to be any new information on the internet. Has anyone else had any luck finding anything?

I couldn't find anything on the net either. I did talk with someone several months ago who knew Justin and had attended basic training with him. If I remember correctly he said he had been in contact with Justin's parents and he was still missing.

How can there be websites online about someone's military record from the civil war and potentially earlier, but no information about one soldier who was either mentally unstable or a part of some sort of secretive organization (weather it be military, criminal, governmental, etc)?

i saw this episode today and could not find any info on this in our local news databanks (i live in santa cruz.. right between santa clara and Fort ord... nothing...

i wonder why the mission is off? hmmmm

Burgwinkel's actor was magical in the reenactment.

Well I have watched this case and I dont know what to make of it. Honestly it reeks of yet another coverup by the government. I think American's like to think our government tells us everything but this is kind of the opposite of how it actually is. I think Justin was involved in some stuff and I think the pressure of it right was getting to him, hence the time when his girlfriend found him sobbing in a room and stuff. I also find that fishy how a guy that is missing has absouletely zero websites on him. I think all of this is just very strange. But there is more to this story. I dont think it was just Justin having problems. I think he may have had emotional issues but I think they were caused by whatever he was involved in it that was just too much for him. Clearly Justin was afraid of someone or something considering he bought two pistols. This is such a strange case. Anyone else have any thoughts?

I think it is possible that Justin disappeared initially on his own. It did seem like he was involved in something thus the phone call from the unknown man saying "the mission is off" but its also possible that Justin was having some sort of mental issue that resulted in his extreme paranoia. It doesn't seem like he was taken abruptly and seemed like he disappeared on his own if he did indeed park his car there. I did mention earlier in this post that I had spoken with someone who went through basic training with Justin and said he had spoken with his parents previously and he was still missing. He also said that Justin certainly did not seem like the type to be involved in anything covert but also said that if anyone was capable of disappearing and never being found it would be him. One of the great UM's because there's no clear cut answer and it could go either way. I do hope that his parents can someday get some answers about what happened to him.

I think Justin pretty obviously suffered some a severe mental breakdown. I'm not a doctor, so perhaps I shouldn't speculate, but there are just a few things about his case that strongly suggest to me that he was coming apart at the seams:

1) The fact that the guy made it a goal to get into the army rangers his whole life, but found himself on kitchen duty. He surely sounded like someone who had made being an army ranger the be all and end all of his existence, and for someone like that to be denied his dream --- and to be put on something as demeaning as kitchen duty instead, traditionally (and probably even in this case, since he had been dismissed from ranger training for his participation in a shoplifting ring) used as a punishment within the armed services --- it must have constituted not only a severe one-time blow to his ego but also a gnawing problem as his conscription there continued.

2) The business with the briefcase. When his girlfriend saw him just tearing up pieces of paper out of the briefcase, that to me screamed "mentally unstable." I've seen things like this first hand --- compulsive tearing of paper is often a sign that there is really something wrong with a person, not the thing they are tearing. They've read something into a photograph, a document, etc., that is not there, and are trying to destroy it and consequently their own inner demons.

The idea that a guy like Private Burgwinkel had anything to do with any high-level operation is patently absurd --- I'm sure the army, the CIA, and the FBI are not in the habit of using army ranger wash-outs as high level operatives. I doubt they would keep their secrets very long if they did. And the oblique reference to White Sands only furthers, in my mind, that this kid was losing his grip on reality. Hollywood films and actual covert operations share the same relationship as "Made for TV" biographical movies and the actual lives of the people they claim to be about, I'm sure.

I do hope they find him someday, because I truly wonder where he could have gone, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was homeless and unidentified somewhere at this point - he may not even be aware of who he is anymore, and I'm not normally a big believer in amnesia. In this case, however, I really do think there was something seriously, degeneratively wrong with the kid's mind.

I think Justin pretty obviously suffered some a severe mental breakdown. I'm not a doctor, so perhaps I shouldn't speculate, but there are just a few things about his case that strongly suggest to me that he was coming apart at the seams:

1) The fact that the guy made it a goal to get into the army rangers his whole life, but found himself on kitchen duty. He surely sounded like someone who had made being an army ranger the be all and end all of his existence, and for someone like that to be denied his dream --- and to be put on something as demeaning as kitchen duty instead, traditionally (and probably even in this case, since he had been dismissed from ranger training for his participation in a shoplifting ring) used as a punishment within the armed services --- it must have constituted not only a severe one-time blow to his ego but also a gnawing problem as his conscription there continued.

2) The business with the briefcase. When his girlfriend saw him just tearing up pieces of paper out of the briefcase, that to me screamed "mentally unstable." I've seen things like this first hand --- compulsive tearing of paper is often a sign that there is really something wrong with a person, not the thing they are tearing. They've read something into a photograph, a document, etc., that is not there, and are trying to destroy it and consequently their own inner demons.

The idea that a guy like Private Burgwinkel had anything to do with any high-level operation is patently absurd --- I'm sure the army, the CIA, and the FBI are not in the habit of using army ranger wash-outs as high level operatives. I doubt they would keep their secrets very long if they did. And the oblique reference to White Sands only furthers, in my mind, that this kid was losing his grip on reality. Hollywood films and actual covert operations share the same relationship as "Made for TV" biographical movies and the actual lives of the people they claim to be about, I'm sure.

I do hope they find him someday, because I truly wonder where he could have gone, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was homeless and unidentified somewhere at this point - he may not even be aware of who he is anymore, and I'm not normally a big believer in amnesia. In this case, however, I really do think there was something seriously, degeneratively wrong with the kid's mind.
I agree with everything you just said. I couldn't help but think of the movie "A Beautiful Mind" everytime I see his eppie especially the part when the docs come in to take Russell Crowe's character away to the psych ward because the supposed missons he was doing for the government were all in his head.

The part I'm kinda leery about was the night the girlfriend got that strange call from someone saying, "the mission is off". Did Justin put someone up to that or did he disguise his voice somehow to do that?

One more note, I can't seem to find that White Sands movie anywhere. Has abnyone else seen it?

Recently it has been alleged that the Army has severely mishandled cases of soldiers with PTSD or other mental issues. I suppose that could explain their silence on Pvt Burgwinkel, in that the Army still struggles to figure out exactly how to handle such cases.

I think the idea that Burgwinkel suffered a nervous breakdown and then didn't get much help from the country he was serving is sad enough without having to bring in any ideas of "covert operations" or conspiracy. If there's a coverup, it's that the Army wants to hide that they let their man down when he needed help. That's a coverup I have little difficulty in believing.

I think Justin pretty obviously suffered some a severe mental breakdown. I'm not a doctor, so perhaps I shouldn't speculate, but there are just a few things about his case that strongly suggest to me that he was coming apart at the seams:

1) The fact that the guy made it a goal to get into the army rangers his whole life, but found himself on kitchen duty. He surely sounded like someone who had made being an army ranger the be all and end all of his existence, and for someone like that to be denied his dream --- and to be put on something as demeaning as kitchen duty instead, traditionally (and probably even in this case, since he had been dismissed from ranger training for his participation in a shoplifting ring) used as a punishment within the armed services --- it must have constituted not only a severe one-time blow to his ego but also a gnawing problem as his conscription there continued.

2) The business with the briefcase. When his girlfriend saw him just tearing up pieces of paper out of the briefcase, that to me screamed "mentally unstable." I've seen things like this first hand --- compulsive tearing of paper is often a sign that there is really something wrong with a person, not the thing they are tearing. They've read something into a photograph, a document, etc., that is not there, and are trying to destroy it and consequently their own inner demons.

The idea that a guy like Private Burgwinkel had anything to do with any high-level operation is patently absurd --- I'm sure the army, the CIA, and the FBI are not in the habit of using army ranger wash-outs as high level operatives. I doubt they would keep their secrets very long if they did. And the oblique reference to White Sands only furthers, in my mind, that this kid was losing his grip on reality. Hollywood films and actual covert operations share the same relationship as "Made for TV" biographical movies and the actual lives of the people they claim to be about, I'm sure.

I do hope they find him someday, because I truly wonder where he could have gone, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was homeless and unidentified somewhere at this point - he may not even be aware of who he is anymore, and I'm not normally a big believer in amnesia. In this case, however, I really do think there was something seriously, degeneratively wrong with the kid's mind.

It does seem unlikely that someone that was demoted to kitchen duty would quickly graduate to high level operative. But I wouldn't call it absurd. It might have been the perfect beard.

The compulsive tearing up of a piece of paper could be any one of a number of things. Doesn't necessarily mean he's mentally unstable.

I went back and saw the eppie again and I caught something. When they flashed the pic of Justin's ID Badge, they showed his SS#. I doubt it means anything but I'm surprised UM didn't blur this part out.

Well, I am sure they wanted any leads out there to turn up. I do NOT believe Justin was mentally disturbed. At least he wasnt mentally disturbed for no reason. He was disturbed because of some stuff he was involved in and it is sad to say he either parished because of these activities or he suffered a complete nervous break down and is now wondering the streets either unable or unwilling to remember who he is. However the government wants you to believe he just ran off and if they say that I instantly do not believe them and I simply believe he was either run out of the Army or he left because he had his mind messed with too much.

Concerning what happened to this individual, Justin Burgwinkel, we simply do not know enough. The theory of a "government coverup" or CIA stuff seems to me to be far-fetched based on the soldier's background. He was a young kid who was a cook and a former language school student from a New England town. What could he offer a conspiracy really? How would he even be selected for such a position? And what official activities could he be doing in California?

BTW any citizen can do a freedom of information act (FOIA) request to get his records from the National Military Records Center (part of the National Archives) in Saint Louis, although what records a junior soldier would have will be minimal.

Certain things in the story as told do not make sense: ranger privates are not usually sent to language school. I wonder if this individual was originally earmarked to be some sort of military intelligence analyst or special forces soldier. But then he flunked out or was kicked out for disciplinary reasons (the shoplifting incident which is glossed over in the segment). Around the time that the incidents took place, Fort Ord was closed (the language school was and still is at nearby Monterrey). It'd be interesting to see what unit at ORD he was a cook for. One of the brigades at Ord was moved to Fort Lewis near Tacoma, Washington, in the 1994-5 timeframe. Lewis did and does have a Ranger battalion (one of only three in the Army) located there. In the segement it seemed he had the same first sergeant in both places

If I were to guess, I'd say that Justin was involved in some nonofficial activities on the side. Maybe he was fooled into doing things he believed were secret missions but was actually involved with criminals or a militia or something similar. And then he figured it out. There is a slight chance he was being used as a CID (the Army version of the agency shown on the tv show NCIS) operative but that would have really meant he was spying on other soldiers. Usually such investigations involve drugs or stealing government property.

But really we do not know about what happened from the information presented.

Mrs. Burgwinkel died in Clinton, MA, suddenly in 2006. Her obituary is online (found when you google Justin). In the obituary, Justin is mentioned as being deceased.

also the fact that someone with a .mil in their e-mail address or IP was searching a website is not exactly the same as "DoD is searching my website." It most likely means someone was inappropriately searching the website at work in their DOD job after having viewed the episode on tv.

Working the kitchen would not be a punishment for this individual. he may have been reclassified into the cook's specialty after leaving the course. Or he may have been placed there as a "casual" because after he got kicked out of the school, he could no longer go to his scheduled assignment of specialty because it required the language training. Something doesn't match then with him becoming a cook and with the consequences of being arrested for a crime in the Army. Usually if someone doesn't make "ranger training" (dittoed because it doesn't really seem he was beign trained to be a ranger) they don't become a cook, they become a non-ranger infantryman. And if he was arrested for a crime, if it were a military crime (ie on-base), he'd have been court martialed or given an Article 15. In any case, the punishment would have been on the order of a fine, a reduction in grade, a short jail term and/or discharge, not sentancing to the mess hall, although he colud have been placed there while awaiting civilian justice. However, when he moved to Lewis, apparently with his unit, the implication is that his punishment was over and he was a cook by specialty. If he was still awaiting diposition in the civilian court, he would have stayed at Monterrey.

I've noticed that UM does not check out its facts often (their Roswell episode is a good example) when facts interfere with the "dramatic effect"

Thanks for posting jjmcgr. I'll go out on a limb and say that you seem to have a lot of knowledge about the military and this case. :) Thanks for letting us know that Justin's mom passed away...how sad that she died still not knowing what happened to her son.

You brought up an interesting point about Justin possibly being involved in activity that he may have thought was military related but was not. It is also a possibility that he were involved in something illegal (that he was fully aware of). Maybe he was naive and got in over his head.

Yes sometimes UM isn't too keen on portraying the story precisely as it happened and is more interested in making things seem as dramatic as possible even if that means leaving out a few pertinent facts. Unfortunate but true.

Well thanks for the information jjmcgr. I am sad about Mrs. Burwinkel and may she rest in peace. I have no idea whether or not Justin is alive but I lean towards him being deceased. I am sure after so many years of him missing his parents had him declared legally dead. Still a horrible thing and this story is just so bizarre I honestly will not even begin to guess what happened to him or what he was really up to.

hello All,

i have actually never looked up anything reguarding Justin. I went to school with him from k-12 and I will tell you he was one of the most intelligent people that I knew. I actually found it strange that he went into the Army I would have assumed he would have chose an Ivy league school.

As for Justins possible mental problems anything is possible I know that many people in their early 20's have their 1st dealings with bipolar or skitzophrenia. I know in school he was always polite, funny, and cute as hell !!!!!

either way it is very sad that he is still missing, the stange thing is over the years ot much has been heard about him, is it a cover up, a cloak and dagger kind of thing or who knows but the class of 1990 Clinton High School Mass do miss him

Justin was one of my closest friends in high school. Occasionally, I google his name to see if any news about him ever comes up (which is how I found this forum). In high school, he was probably a "B" student, but we were in a few Honors classes together. He was also a member of the track team. What I remember about him most was his great sense of humor. During my freshmen year of college (and his 1st year in the army), we wrote letters frequently, which I still have. Most of the letters were just reminiscing about the past. I re-read them recently, and there was never any indication of anything wrong. I know it's highly unlikely that Justin is still alive, but there's always hope. I miss my friend.

Wow, well thanks for posting about Justin, it is always interesting to hear from people that actually knew people profilied on UM. Yes, I have always found it strange too how everything is so quiet regarding the disapperance of Justin Burgwinkel. A cover up is possible. I just find it strange how he hasnt been found yet his name is on like no missing person's websites or anything and the Army never really seemed to do anything in terms of looking for him. Something just doesnt add up.

I was surprised to read what ABC124 wrote because it could've been something I wrote. I, too, have searched on the web for any news of Justin. The last time I heard anything related was when my mother told me Justin's mother had died. I was so sad. It was the hardest and longest cry I have had in years. I felt so sorry for Diane. Week after week for 7 years, I witnessed Diane's frustration, sadness, and destruction because she couldn't find closure regarding Justin's disappearance.
I had known Justin since joining the Cub Scouts when we were in first grade. We were both on the Cross Country team from our Sophomore year to our Senior year of high school. Justin was really competitive. Although, I was the top runner on the team, he was constantly challenging me for the position. However, he was pretty laid-back, too. Before our meets and during practice the team would play hackey-sack and read the Far Side comics which would annoy our coach to no end. Justin was integral in that. I had also been in several classes with him, including French (7th + 8th grade) and Latin (Sophomore and Junior year). Justin's language ability was outstanding. When everybody was struggling in French class just to get above an 80 he was getting a 100. So, it was no surprise when his mother told me that he was going to the Defense Language Institute to study Korean. (And it would be no surprise if there were truly high-ups at the Presidio who were aware of Justin) Justin also had a daring side. I remember during our Senior year he grew out his beard just so that he could go to a local bar (the Maybarton) and get served. His reason wasn't to drink, but to see if he wouldn't get caught. (That's also why when his mother told me he got caught stealing videos at a mall with some other soldiers, I wasn't surprised. That was Justin being Justin.)
Although, I went to class with Justin, played sports with him, and went out with him on the weekends, we were not very close emotionally. He had other friends he may have been close to, but it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't open up to anyone. I also don't recall Justin ever been serious about dating girls which would further indicate that he wasn't a very open person.
The last time I saw Justin was when we were all home during Christmas in 1990. After that, I would see his mother shopping at the grocery store I worked at. We would always talk for a long time. The first thing I would always ask her was "How is Justin?" and she would fill me in because Justin would call her every week. I remember her telling me about him getting caught stealing, getting kicked out of the Presidio, being sent to South Carolina to be a cook and his transfer to Washington State. Then, I remember one day I caught Diane on the way in to work and I asked her how Justin was. She got all choked up and said she hadn't heard from him in two weeks. That was very unlike him.
And then it began, every week no news from Justin. Diane would only update me on the things she had found out, how they found his car, how Justin's girlfriend was not being cooperative, how she was getting stone-walled by the army, how the army wouldn't declare him a missing person (The army doesn't actively seek out AWOL soldiers, but they will actively search for missing persons), how she contacted Senators Kerry and Kennedy to help, how every investigator found a dead-end to the case or how they were being "encouraged" to stop asking questions. It was so hard on her. She was a wreck.
Then Diane told me she was going to try Unsolved Mysteries. After the show aired she got all kinds of leads. Some said he had caught the interest of some high-ups at the Presidio, some said he was hiding guns while on maneuvers with the army. Some said Justin was an excellent soldier in the field and was recruited into the CIA or some other covert part of the government. Some said he had joined the Foreign Legion. Anyway, all the leads still ended at dead-ends.
I don't know what happened to Justin. I don't think he was mentally unstable. I either believe he got himself into trouble or he did join some covert government branch. Of course, sixteen years later without a peep and I think we can figure out which is more likely. Like ABC 124, I miss my friend.

-- Duane

I've always found this story fascinating. I have seen the movie White Sands several times. Why did Justin make a reference to this movie?

Im glad to see that more than 4 years after I posted the original post that started this thread, people are still reacting over it. I still think about this case often, and now that the world has changed, I have more friends in the military than ever.. Its a bit scary to think of this case in terms of one of MY friends.. So to the posters who lost thier friend.. my sympathies. I hope this posting continues to stay up front. I hope people continue to wonder. :)

Maybe he got an new identity working in a secret government agency.

Justin Burgwinkel's story airs Wednesday 10/15/08 at 6 PM est on Spike TV (channel 168 on Dish Network)

I've always found this story fascinating. I have seen the movie White Sands several times. Why did Justin make a reference to this movie?

From what the segment said Justin wouldn't tell his family or girlfriend what he was involved with but told them to watch the movie "White Sands" and they would understand. I suppose it was supposed to be some sort of clue as to what his covert activities were.

There were actually several similar cases over the history of UM where "average" soldiers went missing and there were rumors of secret missions or that there was much more to the story.

As much as I like the stories, I've come to the conclusion that in most if not all of these cases, the person in question probably was nothing more than an average soldier and/or they got involved in something non-military like drugs or theft.

It just strikes me as odd that an average soldier would suddenly be picked for a secret mission or would get involved in some grand plan.

IIRC, isn't "White Sands" about international arms smuggling? Seems a little much to assume that's what Justin was involved in. I think his family and girlfriend were sincere, but I just don't buy that he was in on a secret military mission.

Could his allusions to secret missions have been delusions brought on by mental illness or drug use?

There were actually several similar cases over the history of UM where "average" soldiers went missing and there were rumors of secret missions or that there was much more to the story.

As much as I like the stories, I've come to the conclusion that in most if not all of these cases, the person in question probably was nothing more than an average soldier and/or they got involved in something non-military like drugs or theft.

It just strikes me as odd that an average soldier would suddenly be picked for a secret mission or would get involved in some grand plan.

IIRC, isn't "White Sands" about international arms smuggling? Seems a little much to assume that's what Justin was involved in. I think his family and girlfriend were sincere, but I just don't buy that he was in on a secret military mission.

Just saw this episode for about the 100th time in its SPIKE re-airing and I feel that Justin's disappearance had nothing to do with drugs or illegal activities. I do think he was however trying reinact the movie "White Sands" by carrying around that briefcase everywhere he went.

I believe that Justin have become frustrated at his lack of progress as far as ascending up the chain of command in the military and simply began to live out his fantasy of being a top flight agent for the government as a way of compensating for his lack of progress in the military in real life.

I guess the disappearance of Justin Burgwinkle comes down to how much stock you put in this young man's acting abilities. If you believe that Burgwinkle was a good actor he could've easily conned those near him into believing he was involved in secret missions and gun running or whatever else he might have been trying to sell his friends and family on at the time.

Simply put, the disappearance of Burgwinkle may have just been a case of a young man who was frustrated in how his life was progressing and decided to go AWOL from the army and leaving his friends and family with a story ripped right out of a motion picture to explain his disappearance.

While it does seem a bit extreme that Burgwinkle would abandon his friends and family forever, I believe this is exactly what happened. I believe that Justin Burgwinkle is still alive, living a new life somewhere under a new identity. I believe a individual who was such a fan of movies where he would study the plotlines of a film to the point where he could adapt aspects of that movie to suit his own life would be capable of abandoning his past in order to start over with a clean slate somewhere else. For Burgwinkle it may have been akin to simply killing off a "character" in order to develop a new identity for himself.

It's not unusual for washouts of military/police (or people who cannot achieve elevated status within said institutions, remaining on the "bottom rung") to band together and create their own deluded world in which they are "important players". Such as getting into the lower levels of drug trade, and pretending (often believing) they are high level players. Being in the stimulant trade and using ones product would fuel such delusions, jack up paranoia, and lend itself to stereotypical behavior such as shredding paper. Of course nerves and adrenaline would also mirror stim abuse, and crime of any sort, especially with a good dose of narcissism and intrigue... but the facts are that operatives don't leave messages such as "the mission's off" with one's girlfriend, real gunrunners don't buy handguns and ammunition that Unsolved Mysteries could trace, and thousands of people walk away from their life every year. And thousands of people trying to rip-off higher-ups in the drug trade also disappear every year. Bodies aren't impossible to dispose of.
I was watching UM today and saw the case, searched the web to see if they'd resolved the case yet. I didn't realize the case was so old.
I'd go with Occams Razor on this one- the solution to this riddle is going to be far more prosaic than tri-letteral (CIA/DoD/FBI/etc) conspiracy. It's by his design and desire, not by operational necessity, that he carried around that briefcase that EXACTLY mirrored the movie poster of what was probably his favorite movie, White Sands.
It's a sad story of a young man with dreams of being an elite warrior, losing that dream, and turning to the wrong place to try to fulfill his needs. The guy who called was probably a dominant personality that sucked Justin into a fantasy that Justin was unable to resist.

Heh- DarkDante and I were synched at the brain. :rainbow1: Sorry Dante- your post wasnt up when I started on mine, otherwise I woulda just put in an arrow pointing to your post :yeahthat

Just watched this case again.

I just thought of something...

..has anyone thought of possibility that Justin became a mercenary, and perhaps has died or is still fighting in a foreign country.

There have been several stories of soldiers who have deserted and joined paramilitary groups, dictator armies or even drug dealers in order to pursue a chance to fight in an actual war.

Suppose Justin did such a thing and wound up fighting for Serbian soldiers or in Columbia for a Cartel? If he died in combat, no one would ever know what happened to him.

Heck as much as i hate to say it maybe Justin is now fighting for/with/against Al Queda!:(

Looks like Unsolved is returning to Spike in September 2009. Maybe there will be an update.

Two other cases that need updates are the disappearances of Amy Billig & Tammy Lynn Leppert.

:wave:

Have to agree with ToddMueller, DarkDante, and deus here--SPC Burgwinkel was quite literally the average joe. It's really not uncommon for average joes to exaggerate their duties. And sometimes, they fabricate them completely.

Burgwinkel's MOS was 92G: an Army cook. I understand it's stating the obvious, but cooks DO NOT get picked up for high-risk details that require skill sets found in other occupational specialties. That's the stuff of, well, movies. In reality that kind of selection is done inside those groups (i.e., Special Forces, Rangers, some MPs, some Intel personnel, etc).

I've stated this before, but Burgwinkel would have NEVER been allowed off post with that briefcase if there was anything sensitive inside it--especially being a junior enlisted soldier with minimal OPSEC and SAEDA training. His girlfriend wouldn't even have had the faintest clue about his work if any of his "story" was legitimate (and I can almost certainly guarantee it absolutely was not).

I don't see the mercenary/subversive theory panning out in reality. While groups like that do actively seek out military personnel on occasion (it really doesn't happen that often, though, honestly), they're usually looking for people with either direct combat experience or special skills....and if you go AWOL to join one, it won't be long before we, or a federal agency, finds you and brings you back. I don't see someone like Burgwinkel being valuable to a mercenary group, or being particularly clever enough to elude authorites either, frankly.

Unfortunately, I think he was a troubled young man who had serious, strong delusions--which may have contributed to his disappearance, perhaps death. His case is indeed unsolved, but I think there's far less mystery here than the viewer is lead to believe.

I've always thought that this kid had been emulating that White Sands movie and giving himself more importance than his actual life had by keeping up this charade. I just wonder where he ended up.

I've stated this elsewhere, but for the record, I don't believe Justin Burgwinkel was involved in any real, gov't related, covert operations.

The call to his girlfriend's phone happened on an evening when Justin and his buddies were out together. I think they were at a bar or someplace, and Justin encouraged one of his friends to call the gf with the message to tell Justin "the mission's off". Justin didn't live at his gf's house, and was just there visiting her when he went out one night with his friends and the gf gets the mysterious call. If he were really involved in secret activities, then he would have had a pager or some other means of being contacted. They wouldn't be calling his girlfriend and leave important messages with her.

Another thing that I thought was weird was how it seemed that he'd be out with his gf and all of a sudden, he'd say that he had to leave to work on his secret mission. He hadn't received a page or a phone call or any message. He'd just be in the middle of some activity when he'd announce that he had to leave. That seems really odd.

And, he was always going to Monterrey, either planned or on the spur of the moment, which made me wonder if he had a second girlfriend there that the gf who was interviewed on UM didn't know about. If so, maybe the secret gf is involved with his disappearance.

It seemed like UM was trying to say that Justin carried papers with secret mission instructions on them, and that he would tear the paper up into tiny pieces to get rid of them, so the information wouldn't fall into the wrong hands, etc. To me, that's ridiculous. Why wouldn't he shred the papers in the office, or burn the papers to really get rid of them. Why turn them into confetti? It doesn't make any sense. And why did the gf say that she watched him in the mirror to see what was in the case and what he was doing, and that's how she found out that he was just tearing up paper. If you were in the same room with someone, wouldn't you be able to hear paper being torn, rather than have to watch him do it to know that that was what was happening?

And why did the gf say that she watched him in the mirror to see what was in the case and what he was doing, and that's how she found out that he was just tearing up paper. If you were in the same room with someone, wouldn't you be able to hear paper being torn, rather than have to watch him do it to know that that was what was happening?


TracyLynnS,
That is a very smart point. Insanely simple...yet something I have never thought about. There was something about this case that reeked of someone that wanted to be something that he was not. I find it hard to believe that he was involved in some sort of huge classified case.

1. If Justin has committed suicide, where is his body, then? I guess he could have gone to Mexico to commit suicide, but that would have meant he took of his dog tags. I guess he could of jumped off a bridge. The fact Justin is missing is a huge clue in this case.

2. I have to imagine that Justin was armed frequently. Especially since he was playing "spy". I would find it hard to believe that random robbers or killers just subdued Justin without a fight and then hid his body.

3. corruption and drug dealing can be on military installations. Arms dealing is quite prevalent on armories. It's quite possible that Justin either got involved with them or was trying to stop them and this led to his demise.

I still maintain the theory that Justin either:
1. Fled to be a mercenary or hired hand of sorts abroad.
2. Was killed by some "organization" he became embroiled. This organization could be a simple as a group of "play-soldiers" or as complex as a "drug cartel".

I think for whatever reason Justin chose to leave. His involvement in illegal activities he feared would soon be found out. So I think he went someplace like Canada, where he could live without the US Government coming after him for desertion. Like a lot of other guys over the years have done to avoid the draft and whatnot. He's probably made a whole new life and identity for himself, and no one knows who he was before or where he came from.

So I think he went someplace like Canada, where he could live without the US Government coming after him for desertion. Like a lot of other guys over the years have done to avoid the draft and whatnot.

Interesting thought. Though I think that Justin would have risked continuing in his activities rather than "retire".

I also think Justin would have contacted his girlfriend Yolanda at some point about joining him. He could have easily used the "special assignment" excuse for them moving. Heck he even could have contacted his mother.

The fact that Justin contacted nobody since his disappearance is a clue in and of itself.

I think this is one of those cases where the most obvious is answer is that Justin was involved with buying and/or selling drugs or stolen property.

He may have been involved in something more elaborate but I got the feeling from the story that he wanted people to think it was a bigger deal than it really was. If the way UM portrayed it was true, it sure seems like he went out of his way to try and say, "Hey, everyone! I'm a black ops spy! I'm on a secret mission!" If the "spy" part is true, he was either very naive, very bold, or both. Honestly... when I heard the whole reference to "White Sands" I thought WTF? Why would such a low-level Army guy be involved in international arms smuggling? I think he wanted Yolanda to think it was something bigger than it was.

I agree that he may have fled to avoid prosecution but I think most likely is that he got involved with the wrong people selling drugs or fencing stolen goods and then he was murdered.

I think this is one of those cases where the most obvious is answer is that Justin was involved with buying and/or selling drugs or stolen property.

He may have been involved in something more elaborate but I got the feeling from the story that he wanted people to think it was a bigger deal than it really was. If the way UM portrayed it was true, it sure seems like he went out of his way to try and say, "Hey, everyone! I'm a black ops spy! I'm on a secret mission!" If the "spy" part is true, he was either very naive, very bold, or both. Honestly... when I heard the whole reference to "White Sands" I thought WTF? Why would such a low-level Army guy be involved in international arms smuggling? I think he wanted Yolanda to think it was something bigger than it was.

I agree that he may have fled to avoid prosecution but I think most likely is that he got involved with the wrong people selling drugs or fencing stolen goods and then he was murdered.

Exactly. I think the Chad Langford case generally falls along these lines as well.

As has been stated before, organized crime is a problem on any military installation. Most of the time, it's drug dealing and robbery--ocassionally, illegal arms dealing does occur, but mostly the activity falls into the first two categories. In fact, wasn't there something in the Langford case about some plot to rip off the main PX at Red Stone Arsenal? I seem to remember something like that, but I could be confusing cases.

I'm currently at Ft Benning, GA and just two weeks ago a male was raped by a group of men while running at night on a remote area of the post--it's believed to be gang-related. There are places of business in the city of Columbus (just outside post) that are off-limits to anyone stationed at Benning per the base commander. The main reason: illegal activity goes down at every one of them.

I love my Army; otherwise, I wouldn't have decided to join it. But like the society it was born of, it has its share of criminal problems. And I completely and totally believe SPC Burgwinkel got himself mixed up in it.

I vaguely remember what he did but wasn't Justin involved in some sort of incident which is why he was placed on cook duty? Does anyone remember what exactly he did?

I vaguely remember what he did but wasn't Justin involved in some sort of incident which is why he was placed on cook duty? Does anyone remember what exactly he did?

I'm seriously fuzzy on the details. I'm sure someone else here will know more than me, but I think he was involved in some shoplifting. I don't know if getting caught in that illegal activity resulted in him being put on kitchen duty, if it was a culmniation of things, or what.

Look at it this way...

Justin needed to explain to Yolanda why he was coming and going at odd hours, why he was making and receiving random phone calls, and why he had records that he needed to keep her from seeing.

His choices were:

1.) Tell Yolanda that he was involved in something "Top Secret" and imply that he was a spy and possibly involved in high level, off-the-record arms trading and that he was on a secret mission.

2.) Tell Yolanda that he was dealing drugs and fencing stolen goods.

Which one sounds like it would go over better with the girlfriend? But which one sounds more ridiculous? Like they say, "The bigger the lie the more likely people are to believe it."

Look at it this way...

Justin needed to explain to Yolanda why he was coming and going at odd hours, why he was making and receiving random phone calls, and why he had records that he needed to keep her from seeing.

His choices were:

1.) Tell Yolanda that he was involved in something "Top Secret" and imply that he was a spy and possibly involved in high level, off-the-record arms trading and that he was on a secret mission.

2.) Tell Yolanda that he was dealing drugs and fencing stolen goods.

Which one sounds like it would go over better with the girlfriend? But which one sounds more ridiculous? Like they say, "The bigger the lie the more likely people are to believe it."

Exactly!

It also gives a reason why he's missing if he has to lam it or disappear entirely. If he should die in his activities, it also allows his family to potentially look at him as if he died honorably, rather than doing something illegal.

I vaguely remember what he did but wasn't Justin involved in some sort of incident which is why he was placed on cook duty? Does anyone remember what exactly he did?

I was under the impression that this was his MOS (job) in the Army. We don't place soldiers on "KP" duty that aren't qualified to cook/serve (health and welfare issue). Now dining facilities are mainly staffed by civilians, but when Burgwinkel was in there were many more actual Army cooks (they're known as 92G's) doing the work.

I knew Justin personally, I served with him sometime between 1988-1993. We served with HHC 9th Infantry Regiment, Fort Ord,California. I was stationed there from 1988 to 1994 but he came in and was with us for maybe 2 years roughly. Yes he was a Cook, he signed up as a cook. He worked in our company/dfac for the first year they they were split up to one of our line units so he then became part of either 1/9, 2/9 or 3/9 infantry.

He was sort of a partier, a drinker but he did spend alot of time out of the barracks. From time to time many of us sat around the barracks just hanging out, we did our PT together for some time and always had inspections together. He was a nice enough guy but always seemed a bit shady, secretive. He was definately not part of an Elite or Special assignment.

There are a few of us that just met on Facebook, after all these years, that knew him personally. Though he did spend a "little" time with the rest of us he mostly spend his time with his fellow cooks and then again lots of time away with his girlfriend.

Around the time when he came up missing, the Army base was being closed and were working on closing down and relocating so I lost track of any of them unless they were still within our unit so it wasnt until a few years later that I had heard about his disappearance. I think he spent alot of time in San Jose in areas that well most shouldnt spend time in .. a bad part obviously. I do know that he did smoke pot occassionally but thats it thats all i can remember anyways.

He was sort of a partier, a drinker but he did spend alot of time out of the barracks. From time to time many of us sat around the barracks just hanging out, we did our PT together for some time and always had inspections together. He was a nice enough guy but always seemed a bit shady, secretive. He was definately not part of an Elite or Special assignment.

Welcome! :)

Couple of questions:
1. Do you think it is possible that Justin could have been involved in drug trade on the base?

2. How difficult would it be for one of you guys to find a mercenary group or some type of broker to help you fight overseas?

3. Did you ever get any hint or evidence that Justin might have had some homosexual inclinations?

Welcome! :)

Couple of questions:
1. Do you think it is possible that Justin could have been involved in drug trade on the base?

2. How difficult would it be for one of you guys to find a mercenary group or some type of broker to help you fight overseas?

3. Did you ever get any hint or evidence that Justin might have had some homosexual inclinations?


Dealing with drugs .. thats possible like I said I knew he was into weed atleast twice that I knew of and all the shady acting .. so slim perhaps yes

Mercenary group to help fight overseas .. not likely he was not in shape, no extra training towards and real combat, not elite by any means, those that work in the dining facility spend most of their time in the dining facility even all our Infantry related training they spend NOT having to participage. We did a land navigation course and the cooks joined in and they couldnt read a map or terrain to save their lives .. thats what they had us for. He didnt even like the army or to even cook. He did his job and lived his life after duty hours .. .sooo i would have to say no. There are plenty of other "Infantry" gung ho soldiers that would be a better match

Homosexual inclinations .. I dont think so, like i said he had a girlfriend and there was nothing that I ever noticed to support that thought

Thanks for your answers.

Just one more:

Did Justin every mention or have any out of the ordinary political views that he voiced. ultra Right-wing, any hint of white supremacy(i doubt it since he had an asian girlfriend), left wing extremisim, pacifist beliefs? Any strong feelings toward any conflicts in the world. Did he speak a lot about Northern Ireland or Middle East?

Not that I recall, but again we weren't "friends" I was just one of the guys that could hang with anyone and everyone and get along but I think if there were those thoughts they'd be shared with closer friend types. Either would be a possibility but never noticed or heard anything of the sort

Today, the sad story of Justin Burgwinkel aired. A young man who joined the military, and disappeared under VERY strange circumstances. NEVER to be heard from or seen again. Leaving only a movie reference as a clue. Justin reference the movie WHITE SANDS, in which a small southwestern town sheriff finds a body in the desert with a suitcase and $500,000. He impersonates the man and stumbles into an FBI investigation

Apparently Justin had been acting strange, leaving at a moments notice, skipping out on important dates, only to rush off with a brief case.

After he disappeared his parents flew to from MA to CA where his car was found at an out of the way motel near the ocean. Locked in his trunk was his brief case. Only containing his wallet, which contained his credit cards, license, military ID, and his dog tags.
His mother appeared on UM and stated that she received NO help from the military, police, or anyone else. Not even anyone he served with would help.

He had previously told his g/f that if she ever found his dog tags lying around, that meant he was dead.

Im hoping some others saw this story or remember it from a previous airing. Ive searched and cant seem to find any information anywhere OTHER than on a website called burgwinkel.com which is a journal of a man named Joe Burgwinkel. BUT under the journal date of Novemeber 10 2003 the entry reads: paranoia big destroia- Why is the Department of Defense searching my site for the name 'justin'? Maybe they were looking for Justice, but they don't know how to spell it.

I know Im probably sounding ridiculous at this point, but does anyone else besides me think its strange that the Dept. of Defense is searching for this mans name? IN 2003!
:confused:

The segment said Justin wanted to be an Army Ranger. The rangers are a specialized group in the Army, so maybe Justin's "mission" involved the stopping of illegal arms sales by a terrorist group or other kind of outlaws. This mission was probably his special initiation into the rangers, so when he was told "the mission's off" he was mad about it because he wanted to become a ranger that much. I think Justin carried the briefcase so he could pretend to look more like a spy instead of just a soldier, because the movie White Sands was similar to what his mission was. He told his girlfriend to watch the movie because he could not reveal the full details of his mission.

I think the first question that has to be answered to solve his disappearance is: what was Justin's mission? If we knew what his mission was, that would tell us why he may have disappeared. If he willingly disappeared, he probably left his dogtags behind to tell his family he was dead when he really wasn't; but if he left willingly, he probably went on a super secret assignment by the army and they had to fabricate his death so that he could complete his missions. If he disappeared against his own will, I think he was taken hostage by arms smugglers and his body was decimated to prevent it from being found.

I think the first question that has to be answered to solve his disappearance is: what was Justin's mission? If we knew what his mission was, that would tell us why he may have disappeared. If he willingly disappeared, he probably left his dogtags behind to tell his family he was dead when he really wasn't; but if he left willingly, he probably went on a super secret assignment by the army and they had to fabricate his death so that he could complete his missions. If he disappeared against his own will, I think he was taken hostage by arms smugglers and his body was decimated to prevent it from being found.

I think the only "mission" Justin was involved in was in his own mind.

I wonder if Justin could have been schizophrenic.


Also, I wonder if this is his mom's obit, if it is, he's listed as dead (which I realize may be that they had him declared dead or the family has come to this conclusion)

http://www.mcnallywatson.com/archive.php?start=140&PHPSESSID=422de0aed3ffb970c76201dec3eeb0d8

***************
The segment said Justin wanted to be an Army Ranger. The rangers are a specialized group in the Army, so maybe Justin's "mission" involved the stopping of illegal arms sales by a terrorist group or other kind of outlaws. This mission was probably his special initiation into the rangers, so when he was told "the mission's off" he was mad about it because he wanted to become a ranger that much. I think Justin carried the briefcase so he could pretend to look more like a spy instead of just a soldier, because the movie White Sands was similar to what his mission was. He told his girlfriend to watch the movie because he could not reveal the full details of his mission.

I think the first question that has to be answered to solve his disappearance is: what was Justin's mission? If we knew what his mission was, that would tell us why he may have disappeared. If he willingly disappeared, he probably left his dogtags behind to tell his family he was dead when he really wasn't; but if he left willingly, he probably went on a super secret assignment by the army and they had to fabricate his death so that he could complete his missions. If he disappeared against his own will, I think he was taken hostage by arms smugglers and his body was decimated to prevent it from being found.
***************

Not likely, to enter into Ranger Training what you had to do was apply and be able to meet physical and metal requirments to be considered for a slot, then you'd have to be recommended and pretested, then once you are qualified you just wait till there is a slot and there you go you get your shot, from there its a matter of passing all the tests as you go and when thats over you get sent back to you unit unless you get re-assigned to a Ranger Battallion.

I truly believe he was NOT "secret" service material, he just wasnt the type, he wasn't "Gung Ho", he hated the army life, he was a cook (not that there is anything wrong with it).

I wonder if Justin could have been schizophrenic.

Service requirements are pretty stringent. Would such behavior have been found by the army earlier? Would he be disqalified from service?

I once went through the service physical for the air force, and they subjected me to numerous tests. They disqualified me because they said I had the potential to have vertigo. I would think that any prior history of mental disorder would disqualify him.

I think the only "mission" Justin was involved in was in his own mind.

That doesn't explain why he is missing. If he was murdered, he was murdered by someone he knew, that needed to hide his body.

Service requirements are pretty stringent. Would such behavior have been found by the army earlier? Would he be disqalified from service?


The onset of schizophrenia is typically in young adulthood, late teens-early 20s. It is entirely possible he could be fine when he enlisted and have the issue arise at a later date.

Service requirements are pretty stringent. Would such behavior have been found by the army earlier? Would he be disqalified from service?

I once went through the service physical for the air force, and they subjected me to numerous tests. They disqualified me because they said I had the potential to have vertigo. I would think that any prior history of mental disorder would disqualify him.



That doesn't explain why he is missing. If he was murdered, he was murdered by someone he knew, that needed to hide his body.

There are plenty of mental disorders that you wouldn't be disqualified for when you apply for the service. It all depends on what it is and how severe it is. If Justin was suffering from schizophrenia, it had to have started after he joined the Army. Perhaps it was unnoticeable by his commanders and fellow soldiers because he was only having his hallucinations in his off duty time.

This mission was probably his special initiation into the rangers, so when he was told "the mission's off" he was mad about it because he wanted to become a ranger that much.

One doesn't get a "special initiation" into the Rangers. It's not like a fraternity. It's a posting with high prestige, and if someone were to slide their way in by some "mission," while everyone else went through the normal channels, that would not fly with the other Rangers. The "mission" thing could've been anything from some random person he met screwing with him, telling him he could get him into the Rangers or CIA, to something as mundane as a friend calling on a "mission" to simply go and do something. He took it incredibly bad when getting the news, which brings me to my next thought. Personally, I believe he had some sort of mental disorder. Maybe toward the end, he truly believed he was a spy, and needed to disappear.

Question?

I'm sorry if this has been mentioned already..but is Justin still considered AWOL?

Anyone know how gung-ho MPs are in pursuing AWOLs?

Question?

I'm sorry if this has been mentioned already..but is Justin still considered AWOL?

Anyone know how gung-ho MPs are in pursuing AWOLs?


It really depends on the situation, person, and circumstances. In his case, I'm sure they probably aren't really looking for him, anymore. He was an E-4 cook who went UA, and hadn't really committed any other crime. He might still be on the books for CID, but most likely just as a formality. I doubt anyone is still bothering with this case, as far as the Army is concerned. Not to mention, he's been gone long enough to be declared legally dead, and there have been no sightings or any evidence he's actually still alive.

I doubt anyone is still bothering with this case, as far as the Army is concerned. Not to mention, he's been gone long enough to be declared legally dead, and there have been no sightings or any evidence he's actually still alive.

If I remember correctly, it was the family who were most interested in finding him.

If he really was involved in any of this "White Sands" style stuff the army would take no interest in pursuing it no doubt.

The segment said Justin wanted to be an Army Ranger. The rangers are a specialized group in the Army, so maybe Justin's "mission" involved the stopping of illegal arms sales by a terrorist group or other kind of outlaws. This mission was probably his special initiation into the rangers, so when he was told "the mission's off" he was mad about it because he wanted to become a ranger that much. I think Justin carried the briefcase so he could pretend to look more like a spy instead of just a soldier, because the movie White Sands was similar to what his mission was. He told his girlfriend to watch the movie because he could not reveal the full details of his mission.

I think the first question that has to be answered to solve his disappearance is: what was Justin's mission? If we knew what his mission was, that would tell us why he may have disappeared. If he willingly disappeared, he probably left his dogtags behind to tell his family he was dead when he really wasn't; but if he left willingly, he probably went on a super secret assignment by the army and they had to fabricate his death so that he could complete his missions. If he disappeared against his own will, I think he was taken hostage by arms smugglers and his body was decimated to prevent it from being found.

I realize I'm digging up an old thread, but a recent post got me reading the posts I haven't yet read here.

As some of you know, I'm a military officer. I've spent nearly five years in the Army and really want to set the record straight here.

Here's the deal on Rangers:

1. The Rangers are not a separate MOS (military occupational specialty) in the Army. For example, a soldier may enter the Army as an 11B (infantryman), 19D (cavalry scout), or 35F (intelligence analyst), but he will NOT enter the Army as a Ranger. It is a distinct qualification that is only added to your basic role in the Army. To be a Ranger simply means you have passed Ranger School and are thus authorized to wear a Ranger tab.

2. There is no "special initiation" into the Rangers. And it CERTAINLY doesn't involved a potential Ranger going on "secret missions" to "prove" himself. Bottom line up front: in Ranger School, you are trained in advanced infantry tactics under great duress (which usually, in short, comes down to little food, little sleep, and a lot of physical activity)--nothing unheard of, and nothing that qualifies as Top Secret or Classified. It is barred for females and, again, typically takes soldiers from combat arms branches (ie Infantry, Armor, Field Artillery, etc).

Ranger School is a 52 day course divided into three phases--Benning Phase (named so for the installation it's held at), Mountain Phase (held in another part of Georgia), and Florida Phase (again, named for the location). Before you even begin the course, you must pass a special physical fitness test that includes pushups, situps, pullups, and a five mile run. After this, you must pass a three week "pre-Ranger" course before you are allowed to continue. Most soldiers are cut from the course here.

3. You are not sought out and "asked" to become a Ranger. If you are in a combat arms branch--specifically the Infantry--you may be slotted involuntarily for Ranger School at the end of your basic Infantry training. You do NOT, however, have to pass it. If you want to go, you must ask if there is a "slot" available for you and it must be approved by your commander. In most non-combat arms units, it's almost a guarantee a slot will not be available to you--and, frankly, the School is rather unnecessary by virtue of your occupation. (Burgwinkel, being a cook, would've been under the Quartermaster branch--which is definitely non-combat arms.)

4. Rangers do not carry out missions in the vein of international law enforcement. Although they may support such missions as, in zack's words, "stopping illegal arms sales", that is not a Ranger "job." Rangers (and by that, I mean a team size or larger of Infantry soldiers who are Ranger qualified) typically conduct direct combat and special reconnaissance missions--not looming, ominous, secretive cinematic "secret squirrel" mission we often see in the movies or on TV.

Now here's the deal on the Army:

1. We are not going to ask you to fabricate your own death. Certainly no offense intended, but I am chuckling as I type this. That's ludicrous.

2. If SPC Burgwinkel really was involved in a sensitive mission (I would bet the entirety of my personal property he wasn't), he broke a plethora of federal and military laws by running his mouth to God, everybody, and his girlfriend. As a 92G (cook), Burgwinkel wouldn't even have had the security clearance nor the training necessary for involvement with or the handling of classified information.

3. If there really was anything sensitive in that briefcase (again, my bet still stands), it never would have left post. Period. It would be in a secure facility and its every movement would be tracked.



It was put best earlier: the only mission Burgwinkel was "on" was in his mind. UM, like a number of entertainment outlets, plays on civilian misperceptions of the military and makes what is elementary to those of us who are in or have been in seem like looming governmental mysteries shrouded in enigma. And it pisses many of us off tremendously.

Question?

I'm sorry if this has been mentioned already..but is Justin still considered AWOL?

Anyone know how gung-ho MPs are in pursuing AWOLs?

AWOLs are typically declared such 48 hours after they fail to report at their appointed duty time. It does depend on the situation somewhat, but after the first 48 hours have passed, the Army is exceptionally "gung-ho" at pursuing AWOL soldiers. That's why the majority of them are found so quickly--the Army possesses all one's personal information, from one's social security number to the VIN on one's vehicle. As Burgwinkel still hasn't turned up, he is, unfortunately, very likely dead.

He is still considered AWOL. Until a soldier actually reports or is found, he or she remains as such. Now that so many years have passed, however, it's doubtful anyone is actively pursuing the case.

Hmm Meg the Egg, I am not going to tell you are wrong, you are in the Army not me and you are an officer at that, so I will take your word for it. I do agree that Burgwinkel in all likelihood, as in I am 99.999 percent sure that he was not on a mission, certainly not on a government mission. I mean if he truly was doing shady stuff, my guess, it was lower level drug dealing and crap like that, that had nothing to do with the military but he wanted to seem much more exciting and dramatic and impressive than he really was.

I am not actually convinced Burgwinkel is dead but if he is it was probably because he screwed over some fellow drug dealers and it caught up with him. However his car just being abandoned in the middle of no where? No. I think Burgwinkel was a guy that had been in the Ranger school which to him was a big deal, he washed out of that by screwing around and shop lifting, in a foreign country nonetheless, and he went from being an E-4 which is what a Corporal/Specialist? It goes, buck Private, Private, Private First Class, Corporal/Specialist, Sergeant and so on right? Officer enlistments at least in the Army are easy to remember 2nd Lieutenant, 1st Lieutenant, Captain, Major, Lieutenant Colonel, Colonel, etc.

It seems looking at it, Burgwinkel at the time of his disappearance had been in the military, what, 3 and a half years? For him to be an E-4 after 3 and a half years, it seems his military career and his climb up the ranks were proceeding at an average pace. It seems where this crazy behavior of his started was when he learned he was going to be transferred from Fort Ord, California to Fort Lewis, Washington. That took him a long way from his girlfriend and I think he was unhappy about the transfer.

Now, the reason why Justin was transferred from what I understand, had nothing to do with his performance. It was because Fort Ord was slated to close in September of 1994. In fact that recommendation for it to be closed had been made in 1991, the transferring of the soldiers was to begin in 1992 but was delayed because of the LA Riots. In the fall of 1992, the Army began transferring soldiers slowly off the base in preparation for its planned closure in September of 1994.

But yeah, I mean Justin, he was 22 years old, I think he wanted to seem flashy and show off for his girlfriend and make it seem like he was involved in all of this stuff when he was in fact a lowly cook or at least in his mind it was lowly. He was acting out all these fantasies of his that he wanted to be true but were not. But I suppose he could have had mental issues too. I mean his behavior seemed to get more and more erratic in the weeks before his disappearance.

Driving from Fort Lewis to Santa Clara, California to his girlfriend's apartment all in one night, I mean that is not a short trip. Fort Lewis being in between Olympia and Tacoma. Tacoma being about 30 miles south of downtown Seattle. Santa Clara is gosh, probably anywhere from 650 to 700 miles south of Fort Lewis. Then Justin going AWOL like he did, I mean his behavior was just very erratic so it is unclear whether he was having mental issues or whether he set up his own disappearance or what the issue was? But I do not believe he was on any secret mission.

Hmm Meg the Egg, I am not going to tell you are wrong, you are in the Army not me and you are an officer at that, so I will take your word for it.

https://www.benning.army.mil/rtb/rtbmain.asp

I am not actually convinced Burgwinkel is dead but if he is it was probably because he screwed over some fellow drug dealers and it caught up with him. However his car just being abandoned in the middle of no where? No. I think Burgwinkel was a guy that had been in the Ranger school which to him was a big deal, he washed out of that by screwing around and shop lifting, in a foreign country nonetheless, and he went from being an E-4 which is what a Corporal/Specialist? It goes, buck Private, Private, Private First Class, Corporal/Specialist, Sergeant and so on right? Officer enlistments at least in the Army are easy to remember 2nd Lieutenant, 1st Lieutenant, Captain, Major, Lieutenant Colonel, Colonel, etc.

I agree with you on the possible drug dealing, but Burgwinkel was never even IN Ranger School. He couldn't have washed out if he wasn't in to begin with. And you can't get booted out of there for shoplifting--you don't have anywhere to shoplift in the field!

An E-4 is a Corporal/Specialist, yes. (From Sergeant, the progression is Staff Sergeant, Sergeant First Class, Master Sergeant/First Sergeant, Sergeant-Major/Command Sergeant Major, Sergeant Major of the Army. Also, we as officers aren't enlisted--we're commissioned.)

It seems looking at it, Burgwinkel at the time of his disappearance had been in the military, what, 3 and a half years? For him to be an E-4 after 3 and a half years, it seems his military career and his climb up the ranks were proceeding at an average pace. It seems where this crazy behavior of his started was when he learned he was going to be transferred from Fort Ord, California to Fort Lewis, Washington. That took him a long way from his girlfriend and I think he was unhappy about the transfer.

Now, the reason why Justin was transferred from what I understand, had nothing to do with his performance. It was because Fort Ord was slated to close in September of 1994. In fact that recommendation for it to be closed had been made in 1991, the transferring of the soldiers was to begin in 1992 but was delayed because of the LA Riots. In the fall of 1992, the Army began transferring soldiers slowly off the base in preparation for its planned closure in September of 1994.

Three and a half years is typically the maximum amount of time you spend at any one duty station--most soldiers move every three years or so. It seems more likely that Burgwinkel was simply about to be transfered to his next assignment, nothing unusual.

Ft Ord is still quite open and is most notable for being home to the Army's National Training Center (NTC). It is also quite near the Defense Language Institute (DLI) in Monterey. Those BRAC closures never seem to ever take shape, and the ones that aren't slated seem to be the ones that shut down! Ft Knox, Naval Submarine Base New London, and Minot Air Force Base have all been scheduled for closure for years at one time or another, but all are quite operational as of this date.

But yeah, I mean Justin, he was 22 years old, I think he wanted to seem flashy and show off for his girlfriend and make it seem like he was involved in all of this stuff when he was in fact a lowly cook or at least in his mind it was lowly. He was acting out all these fantasies of his that he wanted to be true but were not. But I suppose he could have had mental issues too. I mean his behavior seemed to get more and more erratic in the weeks before his disappearance.

Driving from Fort Lewis to Santa Clara, California to his girlfriend's apartment all in one night, I mean that is not a short trip. Fort Lewis being in between Olympia and Tacoma. Tacoma being about 30 miles south of downtown Seattle. Santa Clara is gosh, probably anywhere from 650 to 700 miles south of Fort Lewis. Then Justin going AWOL like he did, I mean his behavior was just very erratic so it is unclear whether he was having mental issues or whether he set up his own disappearance or what the issue was? But I do not believe he was on any secret mission.

Yeah, I think he was probably incredibly unstable. (He'd have to be--I'd take a transfer to Ft Lewis any day!) In all seriousness though, I agree with your assessment. It's difficult to discern what the issue was, but it's pretty apparent there WAS an issue.

Looking at Burgwinkel's case more, I would not say he was schizophrenic or seriously mentally ill. I think the issues though, I do think he had mental and emotional issues to a degree. When I say that, I mean I am talking about his confidence. He knew right from wrong, but I think he always felt there was something lacking in himself. I mean it seemed he had many friends, that he got along with people well, he had a girlfriend that he appeared to be very much in love with and happy with and she seemed to feel the same towards him, so the only thing I can think of is, he lacked confidence and felt he needed to say and do these outlandish things to try to impress people.

This would make Justin different than a con artist, a con artist would act this way to steal something from someone, be it money, property, whatever. Justin it seems did not do that. It basically seems to me that Justin Burgwinkel was the type of person that was his own worst enemy and if anyone was going to sink Justin Burgwinkel or make sure Justin Burgwinkel did not do something, it was Justin Burgwinkel himself.

But the big thing, like I said, it seemed he always had an interest in weapons, especially nuclear weapons, long range missiles, things of that sort. When Justin first joined the Army in 1990, the Cold War was just winding down and I think that Justin probably felt cheated that he missed out on being in the military during the Cold War. It didn't say where Justin went to basic, but he was in South Korea for several months before getting transferred to Fort Ord in 1991. In early 1993, Burgwinkel was transferred to Fort Lewis, Washington as Fort Ord's manpower was being dwindled down in preparation for the base's closure.

I also found Justin's former girlfriend, Iolanda Antunes on facebook, did not try talking to her but here is her profile. It looks like her. http://www.facebook.com/people/Iolanda-Antunes/1663657571

Iolanda appears to be doing good these days from what I can gather, she has for several years been Director of Global Operations at IMPAC Medical Systems in Sunnyvale, California which is just a stone's throw from Santa Clara.

Wow Fort Ord still operational huh? Geese. Yeah surprising to me a lot of these base closures never seem to completely happen and some continue to be full functioning military bases. I was aware they had tried to close Minot AFB it was and still is big news in North Dakota, people want to keep their bases there. I know a few years back they tried to close Ellsworth Air Force Base near Rapid City, South Dakota too. I always liked driving on I-90 past Ellsworth, nothing driving by on a clear day and seeing the Air Force Jets practicing, flying through the air, awesome sight. I am originally from North Dakota but sometimes we would go back to North Dakota on I-90 through South Dakota.

Sorry about the confusion, I meant commissioned but I was thinking of two things at once. I guess it is because I was talking about enlisted ranks and then I started talking about officer ranks without clarifying I meant commissioned officer ranks.

It depends from what I have heard on what fort you are at and I guess some totally suck and people tend to get unhappy at them. I have had friends and other people I know in the Army in recent years. IF I remember right, let's see, two went to basic training at Fort Benning, Georgia, another guy I know went to basic training at Fort Jackson, South Carolina. I know more people in the Air Force and Navy though. People in the Air Force, lets see, well all of them went to basic training at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas. Then for technical school, lets see, one went to Keesler AFB in Biloxi, Mississippi, the other went to technical school at Sheppard AFB in Wichita Falls, Texas. Then permanent assignments, well, one was over in Japan for a couple of years, he is now back at Lackland and the other one was assigned to Langley AFB in Hampton, Virginia. The latter was in a really bad traffic accident off duty a couple years ago and lost both his legs. Good guy though and doing the best he can. Navy, the guy's I know, they both went to basic in Illinois. They were then assigned different places, well the one guy ended up getting discharged after 9 months, he lied about being gay so they would discharge him. The other one, he loves it, he was in Pensacola and Jacksonville, Florida for training and is now in Norfolk, Virginia. I also know one guy in the Marines, he went to basic in San Diego and then he was at Camp Pendelton, California he did his tour in Iraq and now he is stationed at Camp Lejune, North Carolina.

Anyway, sorry for getting off of topic, but I mean, in the eyes of a soldier, does the assignment in terms of your duty station play a big part in the soldiers morale or mental or emotional health? I mean I am not sure if you are able to answer this or not, but it seems from what I have seen even in the few stories on UM that many of these guys, their problems at least in part resulted in their being transferred to a place they did not want to be transferred to.

I realize I'm digging up an old thread, but a recent post got me reading the posts I haven't yet read here.

As some of you know, I'm a military officer. I've spent nearly five years in the Army and really want to set the record straight here.



Awesome post Meg!! Thanks for clarifying how the program works. My BIL was a Ranger but I never really understood what that entailed.

Looking at Burgwinkel's case more, I would not say he was schizophrenic or seriously mentally ill. I think the issues though, I do think he had mental and emotional issues to a degree. When I say that, I mean I am talking about his confidence. He knew right from wrong, but I think he always felt there was something lacking in himself. I mean it seemed he had many friends, that he got along with people well, he had a girlfriend that he appeared to be very much in love with and happy with and she seemed to feel the same towards him, so the only thing I can think of is, he lacked confidence and felt he needed to say and do these outlandish things to try to impress people.

It's important to remember that there was another person that called Iolanda regarding "the mission". There is another party involved in this case.

But the big thing, like I said, it seemed he always had an interest in weapons, especially nuclear weapons, long range missiles, things of that sort. When Justin first joined the Army in 1990, the Cold War was just winding down and I think that Justin probably felt cheated that he missed out on being in the military during the Cold War. It didn't say where Justin went to basic, but he was in South Korea for several months before getting transferred to Fort Ord in 1991. In early 1993, Burgwinkel was transferred to Fort Lewis, Washington as Fort Ord's manpower was being dwindled down in preparation for the base's closure.


I wonder if Justin might have attempted to be a "spy". For example perhaps he tried to contact an embassy. Justin in his efforts to play spy might have actually been used in a drug smuggling operation. I could easily see Justin trying to rationalize his smuggling of drugs as some type of "political intrigue". Hence the "White Sands" reference.

I'm starting more and more to buy the drug dealing theory.

It's important to remember that there was another person that called Iolanda regarding "the mission". There is another party involved in this case.

If I recall, he wasn't home when the call came in? If so, could've been him calling and disguising his voice.

Awesome post Meg!! Thanks for clarifying how the program works. My BIL was a Ranger but I never really understood what that entailed.

Cool. :) I have a number of friends who are Ranger tabbed. My boyfriend is actually starting Ranger School next week, so I've been brushing up here lately on the itinerary.

It depends from what I have heard on what fort you are at and I guess some totally suck and people tend to get unhappy at them. I have had friends and other people I know in the Army in recent years. IF I remember right, let's see, two went to basic training at Fort Benning, Georgia, another guy I know went to basic training at Fort Jackson, South Carolina. I know more people in the Air Force and Navy though. People in the Air Force, lets see, well all of them went to basic training at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas. Then for technical school, lets see, one went to Keesler AFB in Biloxi, Mississippi, the other went to technical school at Sheppard AFB in Wichita Falls, Texas. Then permanent assignments, well, one was over in Japan for a couple of years, he is now back at Lackland and the other one was assigned to Langley AFB in Hampton, Virginia. The latter was in a really bad traffic accident off duty a couple years ago and lost both his legs. Good guy though and doing the best he can. Navy, the guy's I know, they both went to basic in Illinois. They were then assigned different places, well the one guy ended up getting discharged after 9 months, he lied about being gay so they would discharge him. The other one, he loves it, he was in Pensacola and Jacksonville, Florida for training and is now in Norfolk, Virginia. I also know one guy in the Marines, he went to basic in San Diego and then he was at Camp Pendelton, California he did his tour in Iraq and now he is stationed at Camp Lejune, North Carolina.

Anyway, sorry for getting off of topic, but I mean, in the eyes of a soldier, does the assignment in terms of your duty station play a big part in the soldiers morale or mental or emotional health? I mean I am not sure if you are able to answer this or not, but it seems from what I have seen even in the few stories on UM that many of these guys, their problems at least in part resulted in their being transferred to a place they did not want to be transferred to.

Very sorry to hear about your friend at Langely. Good to hear he's still around, though. Any day above ground's a good one.


Yes, duty stations can definitely be morale boosters or killers. In my own experience, I definitely have posts I'd give anything to go back to and others I pray to God I'll never have to return to for even two days. For young soldiers just entering basic and AIT or arriving at their first duty stations, the transition can be especially hard. I did my basic training (I was a prior enlisted) at Ft Jackson, which was relatively close to home for many of the southerners like myself, but a few of the kids from up north and out west took a considerable amount of time to adjust. Typical teenage stuff--being away from the parents (many of them for the very first time), break ups, that usual growing up stuff. It can be hard for anyone at any stage in his or her life/career, though. It isn't hard to imagine it may have been difficult for Burgwinkel to learn he was transferring to Lewis, especially if he had a girlfriend while at Ord.

I do not believe he had any covert duty or assignement. I do not think he was mentally ill because of the phone call his girlfriend received. I do not believe he was involved with anything illegal because he was drawing sttention to himself by acting bizarre to his girlfriend. This phone call was staged either by himself or a friend, and if he was truly mentally ill I doubt he would fake this call, it was all staged. Anyone remember that Arnold Schwarzenegger movie True Lies where his wife falls for a cons secret agent life etc, while her quiet boring husband was actually a agent?

I believe he stayed at the hotel his car was at or near it until he ran out of money, or had little left then he walked off. He either then commited suicide or is homeless.

for those wondering well if he committed suicide where is his body, I believe he wanted to hide the fact he would be doing this, a example off the top of my head on how you could do this would be to simply jump in the bottom of a semi full trash container at night and shoot yourself.

for those wondering well if he committed suicide where is his body, I believe he wanted to hide the fact he would be doing this, a example off the top of my head on how you could do this would be to simply jump in the bottom of a semi full trash container at night and shoot yourself.

Or simply jump of a bridge.

1. If he shot himself the gun would be in the trash container also.

I think the garbage men and other people that use the trash container.
Remember this is a full human body..not somebody chopped up and put in a trash bag.

People also spend a lot of time dumpster diving and going through trash.

we hear stories all the time of people being found in trash containers..I guess it's not out of the question that his body didn;t get noticed.

Conservative joe, have you or anyone else ever come across an example of someone killing themselves in this manner? I'm just asking..I've yet to come across a suicide like that?

I believe he stayed at the hotel his car was at or near it until he ran out of money, or had little left then he walked off. He either then commited suicide or is homeless.

That almost indicates that he was on the lam or believe he needed to be on the lam. From what?

I do not believe he was involved with anything illegal because he was drawing sttention to himself by acting bizarre to his girlfriend

That just may mean that Justin is a bad liar and a lousy criminal.

This phone call was staged either by himself or a friend, and if he was truly mentally ill I doubt he would fake this call, it was all staged

For some reason I was always under the impression that there was a 2nd person involved with Justin's activities. Looking back at the segment it appears there isn't one.But that just might be the segment. I would like to know if Yolanda or Justin;s mother ever so a second person that seemed to be involved in Justin's activities?






I

well my suicide example was just a idea of how one could have possibly killed themselves and explain why his guns were missing, and neither was ever seen from again.

the reason i think he stayed out in the hotel area is I do not believe any of his stories/hints/suggestions he was a involved in anything. I believe he was just a boring cook. His briefcase was left as a way of identifying his existence and dog tag a clue that he was a goner to his girlfriend and family. It may have been he was worried about the AWOL disciplinary issues who knows.

nah mastermind to be a criminal or do anything successfully in the army, such as a dealer etc, you cant be a bad actor. No way you would be succesful and there would be evidence he was into this and so far the only evidence he was anything other than a boring cook is all stories and acts he made up.

Great discussion!

This was mentioned earlier, but I feel that this case mirrors the Chad Landford in many ways: Both were "low-level" (no offense intended at all) army guys who wanted to appear to be higher up and more important than they were. I feel that both of these guys committed suicide, and that they wanted to go out with those closest to them thinking that they were involved in something "important." The fact that Justin told his girlfriend relatively soon before he "disappeared" that finding a tag would mean he was dead, makes me feel this was planned in advance.

Justin's ostentatious behavior around his girlfriend really gives one the impression that he wanted her to know that he was involved in something "major" and "important." As people in the army have said in the thread, if he really was involved in such activities, he would have kept them hidden, and not been so open and obvious about it.

It's a really sad story (both are actually). IMO, I feel that Justin was a disaffected young man who was very unhappy with the situation in his life, and he presented a false persona to those around him (and probably started to believe it himself) in order to get them to think he was a big shot. Then, he went out in the proverbial "blaze of glory." Plus, living such a huge lie can ironically lead one to feel suicidal, as the fear of being "caught" can seem horrifying to the person. If Justin's girlfriend/family discovered that he was in fact, simply a low-level guy who had gone AWOL, his entire facade would have been revealed as a lie, which for someone like that, would be too much to handle.

Thats my take... and my 200th post too :)

nah mastermind to be a criminal or do anything successfully in the army, such as a dealer etc, you cant be a bad actor

1.I don't think covert activities is necessarily a requirement of all positions in the military. I've seen more than a fare share of "space cadets" that are currently enlisted in our nations armed forces. One of them a very good friend who I wouldn;t trust to watch a bar a soap. You only need to show intelligence as an officer. For enlisted men they could care less.

2. Plenty of well to do drug dealers out there that rank among the incompetent. There is no prerequisite for being a drug dealer. Just a desperation for income and loose moral standards. Ever read David Simon's "the Corner"?

3. I'm not sure I would assume that Justin was a "succesful" drug dealer. Considering Justin is missing...I think it is safe to assume he failed in a big way.:( I wouldn;t be surprised if Justin screwed up enough to wind up owing some people on botched packages and that's what led to him running away.

No way you would be succesful and there would be evidence he was into this and so far the only evidence he was anything other than a boring cook is all stories and acts he made up.

Like what?

Drugs?
I doubt Justin handled his merchandise at his home. he probably had a place for that or he had someone else that dealt with that. You bust into a drug dealers home your usually not going to find drugs (unless he's using it himself)

Criminal Associates?
Justin may have done everything face to face..he may never have called anyone. And if so it may have all been done on pay phones.

How do you determined the difference between a conspirator and a friend. If Justin had an army buddy helping him sell drugs, any conversations or contact is going to seem like a regular meeting with a friend.

Weapons?
Justin is a soldier...so finding weapons in his home wouldn;t be that unusual.

Also who knows what was in that briefcase he always carried around.....
It's contents may have changed during his trips.

If Justin's girlfriend/family discovered that he was in fact, simply a low-level guy who had gone AWOL, his entire facade would have been revealed as a lie, which for someone like that, would be too much to handle.


I'm not sure that they were that convinced of

I'm also not sure that Justin cared whether his story was believable. Just that he needed something to say to them to explain his activities.

The thing that intrigues me is why Justin would use the drug angle of White Sands for his "cover".

He could easily have said he was working for the CIA. Simple enough lie.

It;s almost like Justin wanted an excuse for his family should he be arrested for drug posession.

I'm not sure that they were that convinced of

I'm also not sure that Justin cared whether his story was believable. Just that he needed something to say to them to explain his activities.

The thing that intrigues me is why Justin would use the drug angle of White Sands for his "cover".

He could easily have said he was working for the CIA. Simple enough lie.

It;s almost like Justin wanted an excuse for his family should he be arrested for drug posession.

I think you're making some leaps here. I never think it's a good idea to say things like "he could easily have said he was..." Plus, I find it hard to believe that he would have come up with the whole "white sands" cover simply to, before the fact no less, give his family something to think if he ever were arrested for drug possession.

First, that implies that he was into drugs and drug dealing/possession (which there was no evidence of then, and still to this day none has come out). Plus, even on this tread those who knew him while he was in the army say that the most he ever did was smoke a joint once in a while. Second, why come up with a cover, esp. one so elaborate? If he ever did get arrested for possession, his "white sands" story would be easily verified or disproved, and so would the drug possession charge.

In other words, the idea that this was in his head as a way to make himself seem bigger than he was, to me, is more likely as it requires fewer "other variables" and speculation, such as: Drug possession, him thinking he might be arrested in the future, etc.

Finally, you might be right that his family/girlfriend weren't that convinced of the whole white sands thing, but we don't know if he knew that. In fact, on the segment it seems to imply that they were giving that angle some serious consideration. And if Justin did start to realize that they weren't that convinced, that's all the more reason why he would need to disappear/commit suicide: He saw the facade unraveling.

1.I don't think covert activities is necessarily a requirement of all positions in the military. I've seen more than a fare share of "space cadets" that are currently enlisted in our nations armed forces. One of them a very good friend who I wouldn;t trust to watch a bar a soap. You only need to show intelligence as an officer. For enlisted men they could care less.

2. Plenty of well to do drug dealers out there that rank among the incompetent. There is no prerequisite for being a drug dealer. Just a desperation for income and loose moral standards. Ever read David Simon's "the Corner"?

3. I'm not sure I would assume that Justin was a "succesful" drug dealer. Considering Justin is missing...I think it is safe to assume he failed in a big way.:( I wouldn;t be surprised if Justin screwed up enough to wind up owing some people on botched packages and that's what led to him running away.



Like what?

Drugs?
I doubt Justin handled his merchandise at his home. he probably had a place for that or he had someone else that dealt with that. You bust into a drug dealers home your usually not going to find drugs (unless he's using it himself)

Criminal Associates?
Justin may have done everything face to face..he may never have called anyone. And if so it may have all been done on pay phones.

How do you determined the difference between a conspirator and a friend. If Justin had an army buddy helping him sell drugs, any conversations or contact is going to seem like a regular meeting with a friend.

Weapons?
Justin is a soldier...so finding weapons in his home wouldn;t be that unusual.

Also who knows what was in that briefcase he always carried around.....
It's contents may have changed during his trips.

I don't know mastermind. Where are you getting this whole drug smuggling angle from? I don't recall there ever being any evidence whatsoever that he did drugs, let alone was involved in drug smuggling. Plus, he did everything he could to make his girlfriend suspicious of his activities, such as sobbing in the room, ripping up paper. He did more to attract suspicion than to hide it, which is why I think he absolutely wanted people to think he was involved in something huge, when in fact he really wasn't.

I don't know mastermind. Where are you getting this whole drug smuggling angle from? I don't recall there ever being any evidence whatsoever that he did drugs,

1.This was a theory that was put forth in previous posts. It would take me to long to explain the genesis. Look in previous posts.

2. when you have a missing adult male in the police or military, three possibilities become very prominent in the following order.
1. That the subject is a fugitive or on the lam
2. The subject is murdered and the killers needed to hide the body.
3. the subject committed suicide and the body has yet to be discovered.

If we look at the first two--what could have been that serious to require Justin to go on the lam?

Why would someone feel the need to kill Justin and hide his body?

You add that to Justin's suspicious and secretive behavior prior to that...it isn' that crazy an idea to consider whether Justin was involved in some sort of illegal activity. drugs is only one type of illegal activity. Justin could have been involved in another type of contraband operation. Usually drugs comes to mind.

I think you're making some leaps here. I never think it's a good idea to say things like "he could easily have said he was..."

Disagree there.I think you do the same type of "They could easily have" in the MacDonald case. Everyone does. That's how people find holes in alibis and theories. i think it's always a good idea to put yourself in the killer or victims shoes and ask "why....didn;t do this". It will allow you to see logic gaps.

First, that implies that he was into drugs and drug dealing/possession (which there was no evidence of then, and still to this day none has come out).

I agree. There;s no evidence of ANYTHING in this case. Just that Justin Burgwinkle was secretive and disappeared suddenly. That's basically it. Standard missing person's case. All possibilities are on the table.

In other words, the idea that this was in his head as a way to make himself seem bigger than he was, to me, is more likely as it requires fewer "other variables" and speculation, such as: Drug possession, him thinking he might be arrested in the future, etc.

1. First off, that doesn;t solve the case. That just tells us the why. We still need to produce Justin. Okay so it;s in his head...where' Justin then? He could still be hiding out somewhere waiting to be found by his family. Which could lead to a happy ending to this case....hopefully?

2. we have variables and speculations because we have less constants and facts in this case. What constants do we have in this case? Speculation is needed to find a path to discover constants and actual facts. A large part of investigative work is predicting where you will find the evidence and facts. It;s the basis of search warrants and interrogations.

I'm predicting that if you look in the right places amongst Justin's friends and associates...you will find someone that was in on Justin;s activities and could tell you exactly what he was (or pretended to be involved in)

I don;t think Justin was doing his "game" alone. Just my thoughts..I could be wrong.

" Plus, I find it hard to believe that he would have come up with the whole "white sands" cover simply to, before the fact no less, give his family something to think if he ever were arrested for drug possession.

1. White Sands wasn;t that popular a movie. In fact if I seem to remember wasn;t it considered a bomb?. Strange choice to give as an example.

2.

Plus, he did everything he could to make his girlfriend suspicious of his activities, such as sobbing in the room, ripping up paper. He did more to attract suspicion than to hide it,

1.His family, yes. But were authorities and his military peers suspicious of his activities? Justin just had to give some reason for his behavior to his family?

2. Your assuming that his sobbing was because of mental difficulty. There may have been legitimate reasons for Justin to be sad...such as jail, court martial and ....death.:eek:

Second, why come up with a cover, esp. one so elaborate? I


He didn;t have to come up with it. A movie was already created. he just had to say watch this movie. The movie provided all the explanation he needed.

In fact I don;t think Justin had to say much. He just said watch "White Sands".

I think it's less elaborate than the McDonalds murders hippie theory, IMHO.

If he ever did get arrested for possession, his "white sands" story would be easily verified or disproved, and so would the drug possession charge.

1. Well, the whole "we will disavow any knowledge of your existance" spy thingey would make it impossible to verify anyway. Justin would always have that to cling to and say to his family.

2. If your selling drugs your going to get arrested...regardless of whether the CIA told you to do so. The CIA has no authority on US soil. If the CIA assasinates someone on US soil, they will get arrested regardless whether it was authorized. I could be wrong, though...am i getting my CIA knowledge mixed up???:confused:

3. The "white sands" story would at least give him a positive look in his families eyes and turn Justin into James Earl Ray. His lawyers could also use this as a defense and way to help his case. There would be these "CIA guys" that gave him his orders. "CIA guys" that would become like "Raoul" in Justin's case. Being this a drug case...there is actually a shot he could get off the drug charge.

You know, mattc...when I first watched this episode the first theory I had was that Justin ran off to become a mercenary (maybe even fought in Bosnia against Americans).

You only need to show intelligence as an officer.

That's debatable. :lol: ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastermind
You only need to show intelligence as an officer.

That's debatable.

Sad, but true.;)

Meg, I think you were the one that told me that it was unlikely that Justin could have become a mercenary.

It is possible though that he could have tried and ran into the wrong people, though?

Sad, but true.;)

Meg, I think you were the one that told me that it was unlikely that Justin could have become a mercenary.

It is possible though that he could have tried and ran into the wrong people, though?

Yes, it's possible, especially if he happened to get in with one of those so-called "militia" type groups--which DO sometimes engage in illegal drug dealing and related crimes, and often attempt to recruit members of the legitimate armed forces. However, I don't see him disappearing under official government watch.

Let me start by saying that I have very little to add to these posts. I know very little about the military, and even less about mental issues. I can tell you that I was good friends with Justin in high school, and we kept in touch my freshmen year of college, and his 1st year in the military. I still have 4-5 letters written from him at that time.

Justin was a intelligent student. He was never the smartest kid in school, but he was definitely a B student, maybe even an A. He was also very funny and loved to make his friends laugh. Like I said, I know very little about mental illness, but Justin was as normal as can be in high school and I'd be totally shocked if he had mental issues. The letters he sent me (back around '91) were mostly reminiscing about the good old days. They were looking fondly back on good memories.

I don't know if any of that helps your theories or not. I know it's highly doubtful, but I just hope my old friend is alive and well. I regret losing touch with him.

Let me start by saying that I have very little to add to these posts. I know very little about the military, and even less about mental issues. I can tell you that I was good friends with Justin in high school, and we kept in touch my freshmen year of college, and his 1st year in the military. I still have 4-5 letters written from him at that time.

Justin was a intelligent student. He was never the smartest kid in school, but he was definitely a B student, maybe even an A. He was also very funny and loved to make his friends laugh. Like I said, I know very little about mental illness, but Justin was as normal as can be in high school and I'd be totally shocked if he had mental issues. The letters he sent me (back around '91) were mostly reminiscing about the good old days. They were looking fondly back on good memories.

I don't know if any of that helps your theories or not. I know it's highly doubtful, but I just hope my old friend is alive and well. I regret losing touch with him.

Thanks so much for taking the time to post on here. I have a few questions if you dont mind answering them.

1. How long after you lost touch with Justin, did all of this "White Sands" stuff start?

2. Was Justin the type of person who liked to put himself into strange situations? The reason I ask this question is the theory has been discussed that he may not have been happy with where his military life was going and wanted more action.

Thanks so much for taking the time to post on here. I have a few questions if you dont mind answering them.

1. How long after you lost touch with Justin, did all of this "White Sands" stuff start?

2. Was Justin the type of person who liked to put himself into strange situations? The reason I ask this question is the theory has been discussed that he may not have been happy with where his military life was going and wanted more action.

1. I don't know when all this "White Sands" stuff happenned. Like I said, the last time I would've heard from him was probably spring '91 (we graduated high school the previous summer).

2. He was just a normal kid. To be honest, I was a little surprised that he joined the military. I thought he'd just end up going to college like the rest of us. But he definitely wasn't someone that was always looking for action or anything like that.

2. He was just a normal kid. To be honest, I was a little surprised that he joined the military. I thought he'd just end up going to college like the rest of us. But he definitely wasn't someone that was always looking for action or anything like that.

Interesting.

To my mind ,this case has several potential explainations:

1) Justin Burgwinkel was never involved in any "secret missions",made up the entire scenario and deserted the military when the pressures of military service and his emotional/mental issues became too great.

2) He wasn't involved in any "secret missions" ,and, overwhelmed by personal issues,he decided to commit suicide and then did so.

3) He was involved in some type of Black Ops, but was proving to be too unstable and he was removed by the people running the ops.

4) He was involved in some type of Black Ops, but it proved to be too much of a strain and he fled both the ops and the Army.

5) He was involved in Black Ops,but the strain was too great and he committed suicide as a result.

Personally,I lean towards the scenarios where he faked the entire thing and then he either fled the area or he committed suicide.
Why?
While I have seen and heard of, secretive groups using "cut-outs" like Burgwinkel for covert operations,most of the time those cut-outs are at least competent in some aspect of covert ops.Burgwinkel was shown as being an incompetent soldier who was unable to even keep "secrets" from his girlfriend at the time.

The briefacse thing and telling his girlfriend about the movie White Sands should be enough to convince most that this man has/had an active fantasy life or was deeply disturbed.
Or both.

Hopefully if Burgwinkel is still alive,he'll receive the intensive psychological counseling that it seems he desperately needs.

I just watched this again and I'm going to have to go with the majority here. I don't think Burgwinkel was involved in any covert operations for the government. However, I do think he was unhappy with the direction his life was going and his fledgling dreams of becoming a Ranger yet basically being demoted to a cook.

I believe he got involved with some illegal activities, such as dealing in drugs or stolen property.

The fact that his girlfriend received a phone call from an unidentified male who told her "the mission is off" suggests that at least someone else was involved with Burgwinkle and his activities during his last days before his disappearance and, in my mind, rules out the theory that this was all in his head. If Burgwinkle made the call himself, I'm sure she would have recognized his voice. If he had a friend do it as some sort of joke, or to further this game he was playing, why hasn't this person since surfaced?

In the end, I think he got in over his head in whatever illegal activities he was engaged in. Perhaps he went to confront someone or make a dropoff or attempt a deal that he knew was especially dangerous. I think he bought the guns and ammo in preparation for this encounter. Again, if he was some sort of operative, I'm sure he wouldn't have purchased the guns himself in such a manner that the purchase was so easily traced. The fact that he left his dog tags behind is a clue and an indicator that he probably knew his chances of surviving whatever he was setting off to accomplish weren't favorable.

Just my $0.02.

If Justin had a friend call his girlfriend with that "mission's off" message, the only reasons I can come up with for this person not coming forward is that maybe he was drunk/high and doesn't really remember the incident clearly.

Since this is a missing person's case, maybe he's afraid of being involved thinking that suspicions could be cast on him.

Maybe he was involved in the same kind of illegal activities Justin was (assuming this is what was going on) and didn't want this to be investigated, which could have happened if he came forward to admit that he made the phone call.

Or, maybe he's directly involved in the disappearance or even murder of Justin. If that's the case, he definitely wouldn't want to admit to the call and bring on an investigation.

I just watched this again and I'm going to have to go with the majority here. I don't think Burgwinkel was involved in any covert operations for the government. However, I do think he was unhappy with the direction his life was going and his fledgling dreams of becoming a Ranger yet basically being demoted to a cook.

It's been a long time since I've seen the segment, but I don't remember Burgwinkel's military occupational specialty ever being mentioned. He could've been anything, although it's impossible to make a good guess based on his short length of time in service and the installations he'd been stationed at (they're rather ambiguous). I do find it interesting that he was at Ft Ord, as that's where the Defense Language Institute is located--he was a student there perhaps?


In the Army one doesn't "demote" to less-than-favorable positions as punishment (although enlisted soldiers can be officially "busted down" in rank). I can't remember if that's what was implied in the segment, but if it was, that's incorrect. Your MOS is determined before you even go to basic training. If you go in knowing you're going to be an intelligence analyst or an infantryman, you come out an intel analyst or infantryman and stay that way, unless you choose to switch specialties (and your petition is approved, and you complete the proper education). You're never "reduced" to another specialty.

However, given the Army was still doing the whole KP duty thing in the '90s (government civilians handle 90% of food services in garrison now), Burgwinkel could've been in the kitchen because it was an assigned additional duty (that everyone had to share in), or he had committed some minor offense and that was the retribution his commanding officer decided was appropriate. Which begs an interesting question--was Burgwinkel being punished? If so, what for?


Today, Burwinkel's aspirations of becoming a Ranger would've been even less remote (assuming he wasn't an 11B). The school is only open to those in the Infantry now.

hi ,

did you know that the name burgwinkel is a verry common name in my country ?
it could be possible he is in The Netherlands ..... for instance with rellatives .They wont find him here :P

and even there is a little information to find about this case but its in dutch (because of his lastname the dutch government got involved!!!the secret investigating service called AIVD :Algemene Inlichtingen en Veiligheidsdienst ! google it!!( Dutch equivailant of the FBI/CIA))!!! if you want me to i can translate and post it on this forum?

oyeah and his lastname burgwinkel is an old dutch word for Cafe or bar burg = bar and winkel=store these combined is barstore and the easy word for it is just bar or cafe and it means his ancestors had allot of cafes and bars in the metropolitan area of Amsterdam around the year 1800 and up

Francis Joseph

It's been a long time since I've seen the segment, but I don't remember Burgwinkel's military occupational specialty ever being mentioned. He could've been anything, although it's impossible to make a good guess based on his short length of time in service and the installations he'd been stationed at (they're rather ambiguous). I do find it interesting that he was at Ft Ord, as that's where the Defense Language Institute is located--he was a student there perhaps?

they made it pretty clear in the segment that he was training to become an army ranger but was caught shoplifting and then demoted to working as a cook/food preparer in a mess hall.

they made it pretty clear in the segment that he was training to become an army ranger but was caught shoplifting and then demoted to working as a cook/food preparer in a mess hall.

You don't "demote" to different MOS's. You demote in rank. Burgwinkel would have been designated as a cook before he even began his basic training.

Again:

In the Army one doesn't "demote" to less-than-favorable positions as punishment (although enlisted soldiers can be officially "busted down" in rank). I can't remember if that's what was implied in the segment, but if it was, that's incorrect. Your MOS is determined before you even go to basic training. If you go in knowing you're going to be an intelligence analyst or an infantryman, you come out an intel analyst or infantryman and stay that way, unless you choose to switch specialties (and your petition is approved, and you complete the proper education). You're never "reduced" to another specialty.

However, given the Army was still doing the whole KP duty thing in the '90s (government civilians handle 90% of food services in garrison now), Burgwinkel could've been in the kitchen because it was an assigned additional duty (that everyone had to share in), or he had committed some minor offense and that was the retribution his commanding officer decided was appropriate. Which begs an interesting question--was Burgwinkel being punished? If so, what for?

If he were "training to become an Army Ranger", he definitely wouldn't have had any time, nor opportunity to shoplift while in Ranger School--which is (and was at the time) only given at Ft Benning, Georgia--not Ft Ord.

just watched this segment after it aired like 5 minutes ago on lifetime. this **** is scary


And WTF @ the DoD searching up his name in 2003. This just makes this case all the more cryptic. And curiously, there's absolutely nothing on him on the internet.

What are they trying to hide?

One of Justin's high school buddies had posted on the first or second page that Justin's girlfriend, Yolanda, was not cooperating with the investigation. I found that interesting.
Personally, I think he just lost it. I can't imagine he would commit suicide though. So, I'm having a hard time figuring out what the heck happened to him.

At first I thought Justin might actually be involved with some sort of strange top secret things but now, I think he might have been staging it with some fellow soldiers.

The segment said Justin set his sights on becoming a Ranger, which is among the most challenging titles to achieve in the military. He seemed to really want to get involved in heavy combat action so that could be why he wanted to become one. But when he was pulled from Ranger School, he kept to his goal by taking foreign language classes in an attempt to boost his chances at getting back in. It didn't seem to work, so he had other ideas.

If he really was assigned to some sort of covert operations then chances are, he wouldn't be telling his girlfriend or family members about it, unless of course he wanted them to know, which could be why he would supposedly show it off in front of Yolanda. Secret operations is serious business, and if Justin were involved in such activities, he should have known better than to tell his close ones about it unless they needed to know.

Maybe he ran off to become a mercenary or some place where he really could see the heat of combat.

Anyone think he could have joined the French Foreign Legion?

Just a thought but has anyone seen the movie "True Lies"? In it, Bill Paxton's character conjures up these stories of him being in the CIA to get women. I wonder if maybe some people out there did stuff like this for fun and possibly did this to Justin and ended up killing him in the end or maybe Justin did this sort of thing himself and ran across the wrong person by mistake.

Several thoughts with this case:

1. Why would Justin tell his girlfriend that he could not tell her about his secret mission, but to watch "White Sands" and that will answer all her questions? If that will answer all her questions, then why not just tell her?

2. The night his girlfriend received the call saying "Tell Justin the mission is off." was also a night that Justin was supposedly out goofing off with his buddies. I'm willing to bet that either one of Justin's buddies or some random stranger made that call at Justin's behest to make his girlfriend beleive his mission was legit.

3. He told his girlfriend that if anyone ever finds his dog tags, that means he's dead. That is a perfect way of Justin running away to start a new life. He has already told his girlfriend that if his dog tags are found, then he's dead. Therefore, Justin leaves his dog tags in his car where they will be found that way everyone will beleive he is dead.

4. I know for a fact that te only time low level people (such as cooks) or no names are offered jobs as assassins or special ops, is in the movies. There is no way in hell that an unknown black ops group saw Justin serving spaghetti one day at lunch time and said "there's our next recruit."

In summation, I believe Justin wanted to be an Army Ranger but the feeling was not reciprocated. I also believe that upon seeing the movie "White Sands", he started thinking "hey that could be me" and started making up all this stuff and then either 1 of 2 things happened. The first is that he did run away to start a new life and the second is that in the midst of all of his "White Sands" games, he got mixed up with the wrong people and was killed. This is a case where if it would have happened 10 yrs later and Justin had a cell phone, we could have subpoenaed the cell phone records to find out just who he was talking to on a regular basis, outside of family and friends, if anyone.

One question that I have with this case is why was the Department of Defense roaming around that man's website in 2003 with a military address searching for Justin Burgwinkel if he really was just a low level cook?

I have read this thread with interest and I think that Justin lived a very active fantasy life. One thing caught my interest in the segment: when his parents found his car, UM stated that the motel manager just assumed it was left by a former customer and they would pick it up later. After three months, wouldn't you start wondering why it was still there? Around here, most people would call the cops about an abandoned car on their property long before three months passed.

Maybe its just me, but does anyone else find it odd that when Justin's mother was being interviewed, she made the comment "I tried to have the police go to the girlfriends house..." Seems like an odd statement on two fronts.

1. She called her "the girlfriend" instead of her name.
2. Does it possibly show that Justin's mom did not beleive her story?

Maybe I'm just overthinking it.

someone mentioned earlier that they sent letters to justin and alked about he past. well, depressed or mentally unstable people seem to hold fond memories of the past...remember, they feel an inability to create those moments in he present....

this guy was unstable. when the girlfriend got the call, he was probably afraid that his buddy would just really explain how justin is a bit nutty..... he is alive in my view, leading a new life.......

I also always figured this was another case of someone being mentally ill and not having the knowledge or resources at the time to get help. cases like this i really want an update on though. did he end up in a psych ward? kill himself? wander off? his family deserves some answers.

I also always figured this was another case of someone being mentally ill and not having the knowledge or resources at the time to get help. cases like this i really want an update on though. did he end up in a psych ward? kill himself? wander off? his family deserves some answers.
I agree.I got the feeling,from one of the pics....the way he looked in it..something I can't explain,but I also saw that same look in his eyes in someone I know who was also mentally ill and killed themselves.

wow...after watching this again,it's obvious Justin probably disliked what he was doing in the military and wanted out,via the fact he didn't bother to report back,even though he knew they were already looking for him.it's also obvious he had help,since his car was found abandoned in the parking lot.(I also find it odd the motel let it sit there for 3 mo.).someone obviously picked him up after he left his car there,complete w dog tags in it,like he told his gf would be found if he were dead.I suspect he may not be dead.obviously the whole thing was a set-up for him to appear that way (duh).also leaving his wallet (ID) makes me think he was leaving behind his old life and he didn't want it to be found on him.
the guns...sounds like he was planning a life of criminal activity?we already know he didn't have a problem with stealing.he had a problem w being caught,and the consequences that went with it. (being demoted).
father states he would not leave the 3 things he loved...his mother,gf and his car.well...ppl have done so bf.I put little stock into that.IMO he felt he was leaving them some closure by having them believe he was dead.
his car...well...what about a getaway car? he couldn't use his.obviously he had use of another one. (stolen?).they should ck for stolen cars in that area around that time.maybe that what the guns were all about.one for use,one for backup (or someone else).
and why wasn't the phone call to the gf traced? that might have provided a lot of answers.it may have been his partner in crime.(ie-the 'mission').that's what this was all about,imo.leaving to start a life of crime under a new ID.
there are more clues here,upon closer look,than one might think.I have to say if he's still hiding,he of course is doing a very good job of it.he may not even be in this country anymore,though.He was studying foreign language.
JMO.

wow...after watching this again,it's obvious Justin probably disliked what he was doing in the military and wanted out,via the fact he didn't bother to report back,even though he knew they were already looking for him.it's also obvious he had help,since his car was found abandoned in the parking lot.(I also find it odd the motel let it sit there for 3 mo.).someone obviously picked him up after he left his car there,complete w dog tags in it,like he told his gf would be found if he were dead.I suspect he may not be dead.obviously the whole thing was a set-up for him to appear that way (duh).also leaving his wallet (ID) makes me think he was leaving behind his old life and he didn't want it to be found on him.
the guns...sounds like he was planning a life of criminal activity?we already know he didn't have a problem with stealing.he had a problem w being caught,and the consequences that went with it. (being demoted).
father states he would not leave the 3 things he loved...his mother,gf and his car.well...ppl have done so bf.I put little stock into that.IMO he felt he was leaving them some closure by having them believe he was dead.
his car...well...what about a getaway car? he couldn't use his.obviously he had use of another one. (stolen?).they should ck for stolen cars in that area around that time.maybe that what the guns were all about.one for use,one for backup (or someone else).
and why wasn't the phone call to the gf traced? that might have provided a lot of answers.it may have been his partner in crime.(ie-the 'mission').that's what this was all about,imo.leaving to start a life of crime under a new ID.
there are more clues here,upon closer look,than one might think.I have to say if he's still hiding,he of course is doing a very good job of it.he may not even be in this country anymore,though.He was studying foreign language.
JMO.

I just found this board and wanted to connect with you folks. I live on the same street as Justin did until he left for the military, and still live there. I talk to his Dad a lot and know some things about this from talking to him and Justin's Mother. She is deceased, mostly from the effects of a broken heart and never having closure from a missing child.

Justin was one of the nicest kids I ever knew and I still see his brothers from time to time. Very hard for me to believe he was planning a life of crime.

He attended the Presidio for a time to learn Korean and then something happened and he was given another assignment. I hope he's still alive and contacts his family someday but am not holding my breath either.

If you have any questions just ask...I haven't read this whole thread but I will. I just happened upon this today as I was thinking about Justin and how long he'd been gone. I decided to do a web search and found this, needless to say I was very surprised to find it.

Clinton Ma Resident.

is it just me or does anyone else question how come only the gf claims she knows about justins special mission mind set? anybody else in the segment mention it? she was also uncooperative with cops.........what gives?

What do we really know about justin?

What do we really know about justin?
That's why I was going with the facts.Fact is he bought 2 guns prior to disappearing.Fact is he stole,and for that reason was not going where he wanted to in the military.Fact is he didn't bother to call the military,even though he was AWOL and he knew they were looking for him.Fact is his wallet and abandoned car were found in a hotel parking lot after 3 mo.
Now I don't know what all his gf knew,just that she reported someone had called and said the 'mission' was off,and that if his dog tags turned up,it meant he was dead.And that he mentioned the movie White Sands,and was tearing up little,tiny pieces of ppr in a briefcase he always carried.(I did wonder if she didn't get curious and look in it though).

is it just me or does anyone else question how come only the gf claims she knows about justins special mission mind set? anybody else in the segment mention it? she was also uncooperative with cops.........what gives?

What do we really know about justin?

I think you bring up an interesting point but how do you know she wasn't cooperative with police? Was this mentioned in the segment?

How do we know the girlfriend was uncooperative?

Easy, she never came firward to the police. Justin's mother never mentioned her at all during interviews with the MPs.

It was known that Justin thought she was in some 'danger' with some questionable people. It was also believed he left to confront others and bring his girl back to Ft Lrwis where he was assiged.

I have yet to have seen this episode, and I am frankly upset to hear about it again as I was the lead invstigator when Justin first went AWOL, and no one bothered to deek any input or information from me.

My thoughtd are Justin went to "rescue" his girl from a bad situation and knew he needed the guns as protection. Then found himself in way to deep.

Where is he now? I would like to say he is doing fine; however, I truly believe he bit off more than he could chew.

I think you bring up an interesting point but how do you know she wasn't cooperative with police? Was this mentioned in the segment?

See my other post.

I have just found this thread and I am shicked at some of these facts that have surfaced, that would have been useful we firsted asked.

How do we know the girlfriend was uncooperative?

Easy, she never came firward to the police. Justin's mother never mentioned her at all during interviews with the MPs.

It was known that Justin thought she was in some 'danger' with some questionable people. It was also believed he left to confront others and bring his girl back to Ft Lrwis where he was assiged.

I have yet to have seen this episode, and I am frankly upset to hear about it again as I was the lead invstigator when Justin first went AWOL, and no one bothered to deek any input or information from me.

My thoughtd are Justin went to "rescue" his girl from a bad situation and knew he needed the guns as protection. Then found himself in way to deep.

Where is he now? I would like to say he is doing fine; however, I truly believe he bit off more than he could chew.

Thanks for posting. You bring some very interesting facts about the girlfriend. UM made absolutely no mention of her being involved with anyone shady....I wonder why they wouldn't at least throw that out there as a possibility of how he disappeared. Do you know anymore about the kind of people she may have been hanging out with? I always wondered what Justin's parents really thought of her when his mother referred to her as "the girlfriend" and not by name.

The 'girl' he was suppossedly going to see was in Seaside, Ca which back then was not a great place to be, which contradicts everything about the girl in the show. Maybe it was another girl or a friends girlfriend.

Either way, that is where the investigation led.

Someone affiliated with this case or related to Justin should contact the Investigation Discovery channel to have this case shown on "Disappeared".

personally i believe its very much possible that justin was buying and distributing guns to drug dealers and/or gang members. not exactly sure but weren't gun laws not that strict back then? That is until the botched attempt of operation fast and furious, (hell) he could have even participated in that. its very well a possiblity he bought more guns that weren't accounted for. (IMO) if he did plan on suicide or his own disappearance then why would he let those two handguns and one-hundred rounds of ammunition be traced to him giving investigators a certain timetable for his disappearance, just doesn't make sense. if i recall properly the UM segment noted that his car was found abandoned at the hotel for three months and justin never stayed at the hotel (in other words his name wasn't found in the log in data book) but i also imagine investigators showed pictures of justin to the hotel manager and desk clerk(s).

since his remains were not found (near the hotel) and at all and he never apparently stayed at the hotel its obvious someone else is involved (IMO). since their not coming forward with any information leads me to believe foul play is involved. i say this because i dont see anyone of his so called friends out there (california) to be really close with justin because if they know about his suicide or fleeing the country they would feel the necessity at least to contact his parents regardless. that being said it could very well be a so called friend that was involved and its very well possible justin disappeared before the car was parked at the hotel.

Maybe it's because I was a little kid when the movie came out, but I really want to see this White Sands film to get a greater grasp on the story.

This is a tremendously fascinating, yet terribly sad story. I have nothing to add in the realm of 'theories' that hasn't already been offered up, but am curious as to the girlfriend's whereabouts now and what hindsight she may have on the disappearance today?

Maybe it's because I was a little kid when the movie came out, but I really want to see this White Sands film to get a greater grasp on the story.

This is a tremendously fascinating, yet terribly sad story. I have nothing to add in the realm of 'theories' that hasn't already been offered up, but am curious as to the girlfriend's whereabouts now and what hindsight she may have on the disappearance today?

You're really not missing much. I thought the movie was terrible. Its about a small town sheriff who stumbles upon a dead body and assumes his identity.

I suspect he just mentioned the movie to throw everyone off.I can't see how it would actually play into his disappearance,even if he anticipated it might happen.But if anyone has any ideas,throw them out there.perhaps I'm missing something.

When was the original air date of this case?

I haven't posted here in ages, but I started this thread, and found it today when looking for new information on this case. I'm delighted to see it's still being talked about. I have yet to see or find any new info, but, I find this case to be very interesting. I hope someday Justin contacts his family, or there is some sort of closure to this.

I don't buy much into conspiracy theories. I think people watch way too many movies and assume that's how the real world goes. The the whole idea of secret operations and conspiracy is just a fantasy - I'm sure it happens, but not to somebody like Justin.

My theory is that he committed suicide. I believe he may have been disillusioned with Army life and felt undervalued in his role of a cook. I believe he concocted the fantasy of him being involved in secret missions to exhilarate himself and impress his girlfriend. She obviously believed it, which made his "double life" more thrilling. I believe he was unhappy and wanted to end his life, but would have rather gone down in a blaze of glory. He wanted to have his girlfriend and family believe he lived a glamorous, Hollywood movie-like style life, instead of them being left in despair over a suicide. Justin told his girlfriend that finding his dog-tags would indicate he's no longer alive. Who else would have made sure to leave his dog tags behind in his car? I doubt some drug-smuggling thug would have thought to do that.

I don't find it the least bit surprising they haven't found his body. Look at all the thousands of people that have vanished without a trace. Just browse Charley Project for a little bit. The world is big and a human body is small (comparatively). He could have gone deep in the woods and killed himself, for all we know.

I don't buy much into conspiracy theories. I think people watch way too many movies and assume that's how the real world goes. The the whole idea of secret operations and conspiracy is just a fantasy - I'm sure it happens, but not to somebody like Justin.

My theory is that he committed suicide. I believe he may have been disillusioned with Army life and felt undervalued in his role of a cook. I believe he concocted the fantasy of him being involved in secret missions to exhilarate himself and impress his girlfriend. She obviously believed it, which made his "double life" more thrilling. I believe he was unhappy and wanted to end his life, but would have rather gone down in a blaze of glory. He wanted to have his girlfriend and family believe he lived a glamorous, Hollywood movie-like style life, instead of them being left in despair over a suicide. Justin told his girlfriend that finding his dog-tags would indicate he's no longer alive. Who else would have made sure to leave his dog tags behind in his car? I doubt some drug-smuggling thug would have thought to do that.

I don't find it the least bit surprising they haven't found his body. Look at all the thousands of people that have vanished without a trace. Just browse Charley Project for a little bit. The world is big and a human body is small (comparatively). He could have gone deep in the woods and killed himself, for all we know.

I could understand that theory but my problem with it is that his body is still missing after nearly 20 years. Seems like if he committed suicide, his body would have popped up by now.

I could understand that theory but my problem with it is that his body is still missing after nearly 20 years. Seems like if he committed suicide, his body would have popped up by now.
Agree. I'm more compelled to think someone offed him and hid the body. I know it's a big world and bodies can be hidden because they're small in comparison, but that's if someone is there to hide it. Unless he jumped off a bridge (and there are no witnesses to that) like the Golden Gate where bodies aren't often found, I don't see how his body would be so well hidden.

I agree,i think he knew whatever he was into might get himself killed in the process (thus the fact he bought 2 guns) and bf he left,he put his dog tags in the trunk for someone to find,in case he didn't come back.Thus it would be just as he'd told his gf...he was dead if they were found.

Justin - it's a total shot in the dark, but if you are out there and by some twist of fate you find this - please know we love you and miss you very much.

Your sister,
Kady

Does anyone else find it weird Justin isn't on any missing person website even the Charlie project?

Does anyone else find it weird Justin isn't on any missing person website even the Charlie project?


Huh. Good point.

I just rewatched this one yesterday, and really don't know what to think about it. First and foremost I do not buy the theory that Burgwinkel was doing some covert secret mission for the military or the CIA or any other branch of government or militia (US or other country). That was laughable, to say the least. The guy was a private and he was assigned to kitchen duty. And as MegtheEgg pointed out earlier in the thread, they usually pick people who are skilled in combat for recruiting in these special outfits. I just don't see how a guy on kitchen duty would fit that bill.

Others have also speculated that Burgwinkel became disillusioned after being kicked out of the Ranger program and being relegated to kitchen duty. Some have said that he began to live out these wild fantasies to mirror the movie "White Sands" and to make it seem like he was more important to his family and friends. There was also speculation that Burgwinkel was suffering from a mental breakdown and was simply making everything up. I do agree with the notion that Burgwinkel became disillusioned after being kicked out of the Ranger Program. But I don't think he had some sort of mental illness that caused him to make everything up in his head. Did he exaggerate to his girlfriend? Probably. Did he want to come off as more important than he really was? Most likely. But he couldn't have made it all up because his girlfriend received a call from a male who said, "the mission is off". That right there is proof that there was at least one other person involved in whatever Burgwinkel was up to.

IMO, Burgwinkel was probably involved in some low level drug dealing or trafficking. He probably got in over his head, knew he couldn't back out or feared discipline from the military, or maybe he was simply ashamed at what he did. That would explain his girlfriend finding him bawling his eyes out in the middle of the night. I doubt drug dealers would have killed him, removed his wallet and his dog tags, dumped the body, ditched his guns, took his car back to a motel, and then put his wallet, dog tags, and his empty briefcase in the trunk of his car. I doubt drug dealers would have gone through that much trouble to "hide" everything if all they wanted to do was kill him. They could have just killed him and hidden the body. Why go through everything else? I think Burgwinkel knew he was going to be disciplined for going AWOL, and that combined with the fact that he had gotten involved in something shady (perhaps to the point that he was in too deep) caused him to ultimately commit suicide. The evidence for murder is not there. There was one phone call made to the girlfriend, but it wasn't a threatening phone call in any way. Other than that phone call, there was never any evidence of some shady drug dealers out to get Burgwinkel. And I think that lends more credence to the suicide theory. Just my 2 cents, anyway.

I just rewatched this one yesterday, and really don't know what to think about it. First and foremost I do not buy the theory that Burgwinkel was doing some covert secret mission for the military or the CIA or any other branch of government or militia (US or other country). That was laughable, to say the least. The guy was a private and he was assigned to kitchen duty. And as MegtheEgg pointed out earlier in the thread, they usually pick people who are skilled in combat for recruiting in these special outfits. I just don't see how a guy on kitchen duty would fit that bill.

Others have also speculated that Burgwinkel became disillusioned after being kicked out of the Ranger program and being relegated to kitchen duty. Some have said that he began to live out these wild fantasies to mirror the movie "White Sands" and to make it seem like he was more important to his family and friends. There was also speculation that Burgwinkel was suffering from a mental breakdown and was simply making everything up. I do agree with the notion that Burgwinkel became disillusioned after being kicked out of the Ranger Program. But I don't think he had some sort of mental illness that caused him to make everything up in his head. Did he exaggerate to his girlfriend? Probably. Did he want to come off as more important than he really was? Most likely. But he couldn't have made it all up because his girlfriend received a call from a male who said, "the mission is off". That right there is proof that there was at least one other person involved in whatever Burgwinkel was up to.

IMO, Burgwinkel was probably involved in some low level drug dealing or trafficking. He probably got in over his head, knew he couldn't back out or feared discipline from the military, or maybe he was simply ashamed at what he did. That would explain his girlfriend finding him bawling his eyes out in the middle of the night. I doubt drug dealers would have killed him, removed his wallet and his dog tags, dumped the body, ditched his guns, took his car back to a motel, and then put his wallet, dog tags, and his empty briefcase in the trunk of his car. I doubt drug dealers would have gone through that much trouble to "hide" everything if all they wanted to do was kill him. They could have just killed him and hidden the body. Why go through everything else? I think Burgwinkel knew he was going to be disciplined for going AWOL, and that combined with the fact that he had gotten involved in something shady (perhaps to the point that he was in too deep) caused him to ultimately commit suicide. The evidence for murder is not there. There was one phone call made to the girlfriend, but it wasn't a threatening phone call in any way. Other than that phone call, there was never any evidence of some shady drug dealers out to get Burgwinkel. And I think that lends more credence to the suicide theory. Just my 2 cents, anyway.

A few thoughts on Justin Burgwinkel:

1. Ever consistent, UM once again doesn't make clear what Burgwinkel's actual MOS in the Army was.

Burgwinkel could have been an intelligence analyst, a Patriot fire control enhanced operator, an infantryman, or a human resource specialist. Each of those jobs would have different implications in the context of the entire story.

I wasn't in the Army of the early '90s--but I know about the only "kitchen duty" Soldiers do today is in tiny combat outposts such as those in Afghanistan. Dining facilities today are managed and operated by civilian contractors or Soldiers who actually joined the Army TO cook and manage dining facilities (the MOS is 92G: food service specialist). It could have been different in 1993. I don't know.

The main point is that A) we don't know what Burgwinkel actually did in the Army, and B) "kitchen duty" hasn't been an Army garrison reality since probably about the 1960s. It seems more probable to me that Burgwinkel either actually WAS a food service specialist, or was involuntarily re-classed from whatever job he was doing before TO food service specialist, for whatever reason.

2. The "Ranger program" thing is very confusing.

U.S. Army Ranger School is a two-month course held in three phases at three different locations--Ft Benning, GA, Camp Merrill, GA, and Eglin Air Force Base, FL. THIS is the actual course. It is one of the Army's most physically and mentally challenging schools, and the pass rate is low.

Many units hold "pre-Ranger" courses to prepare Soldiers who have received Ranger School slots. These courses usually last anywhere from two to three weeks and serve primarily to give future trainees a small glimpse of what to expect as well as "weed out" anyone who may stand a low chance of graduating. They are "field" training events--that is, you're "in the field" the entire time you're there. You're not going back at night to sleep at home or in barracks.

It should also be noted that completing Ranger School does NOT put you in a "Ranger unit", or mean your actual job is "Army Ranger." Here's how it works:

Joe Snuffy's MOS is 11B: infantryman. Joe's rank is Staff Sergeant, E-6.

SSG Snuffy receives a Ranger School slot. He attends his unit's internal "pre-Ranger" course for two weeks, and then attends the actual Ranger School in Georgia and Florida.

He graduates the course and may now wear a "Ranger" tab on his shoulder to show that he is "qualified"--that is, he successfully passed.

We can now call SSG Snuffy a Ranger, but that is NOT his job. His job is still 11B, infantryman. "Ranger" is a qualification he earned, but not his job.

Here is another example using a different Army course--Airborne School:

Jane Smith is a 35F: intelligence analyst. Her rank is Specialist, E-4.

SPC Smith attends Airborne School at Ft Benning, GA and passes. She may now wear "Airborne wings" on the front of her uniform to show that she is Airborne-qualified.

We may now say SPC Smith is "Airborne", but her job remains the same: intelligence analyst.

Given all this, I don't understand what's meant by the term "Ranger program". About the only thing I can think of is that perhaps Burgwinkel needed, or felt he needed, extensive physical conditioning to prepare for a potential Ranger School slot, and perhaps his unit offered such a program during non-duty hours or as an alternative to regular unit physical training in the morning. This informal thing then took on a very official, serious life when some UM researcher who didn't know a damn thing about the military decided it was a lot more serious and official than what it actually was. I submit that this is likely what occurred.

3. I also don't understand the bit about "language training." Language training isn't part of Ranger School. It IS required, of course, for linguists and many Special Forces specialties, however. Many, many Special Forces Soldiers complete Ranger School prior to their SF training--so perhaps what Burgwinkel ACTUALLY wanted to do was be an SF Soldier. Ranger School would have been a mere stepping stone on that path.


I am in total agreement with Cars that Burgwinkel was actually involved in something real and illegal that may or may not have involved other Soldiers, but ultimately had nothing to do with the Army. I think he also probably had a penchant for exaggerating his military career, as evidenced by the melodramatic "dog tags" story he gave to his girlfriend and his White Sands reference. I think these exaggerations unfortunately caused much confusion in the far-less-military-saavy public of the early '90s, and the government-conspiracy-myth gained legs.

Joe Snuffy and Jane Smith sound like badasses. :lol:

Joe Snuffy and Jane Smith sound like badasses. :lol:

They're highly motivated Soldiers. :)

They're highly motivated Soldiers. :)

Back to the topic, what do you think happened to Burgwinkel? Murder? Suicide? Still alive?

Back to the topic, what do you think happened to Burgwinkel? Murder? Suicide? Still alive?

I think he's dead. I'm 70-30 on suicide to murder by his associates, whom I believe were probably involved in some criminal activity with Burgwinkel.

I think he's dead. I'm 70-30 on suicide to murder by his associates, whom I believe were probably involved in some criminal activity with Burgwinkel.

What's frustruating is the fact that UM left out a lot of details in this case. It would have been fairly easy to figure out who placed the "The mission is off" phone call. A simple check of the phone records would have sufficed. Granted I don't recall how long it was after that phone call was made that Justin went missing, but it just seems like there should be more information to this story that we're not getting.

What's frustruating is the fact that UM left out a lot of details in this case. It would have been fairly easy to figure out who placed the "The mission is off" phone call. A simple check of the phone records would have sufficed. Granted I don't recall how long it was after that phone call was made that Justin went missing, but it just seems like there should be more information to this story that we're not getting.

I would have liked to hear elaboration on what kind of Soldier he was. I know we got a little bit from his first sergeant that was generally positive. But when a Soldier misses a report or movement time, you ask him or her lots of questions. You want to know if there's a life circumstance there that's effecting his or her overall well-being. I suppose I wonder what reason Burgwinkel gave for not showing up. I wonder if his work habits began to change. I wonder if his behavior changed. I wonder if he had ever been formally disciplined for anything prior to his instances of going AWOL.

I think he's dead. I'm 70-30 on suicide to murder by his associates, whom I believe were probably involved in some criminal activity with Burgwinkel.
I also believe he's dead and don't believe it really had anything to do with the Army. It could have been that these associates were also in the army, sure, but I highly doubt any sort of higher level involvement.

I think this could have been a suicide because it appears he was under a ton of pressure and emotionally frayed/paranoid. Sobbing uncontrollably in the middle of the night, for one, and two, pushing around scraps of paper in a suitcase and tearing them further. Perhaps he was afraid of criminal activity catching up with him and those papers were something that could have implicated him and he wanted to tear them up even further to be utterly certain he couldn't be pinned to anything, to the point of paranoia. I also find it possible that the crying/stress could have been a fear that he would have been harmed by these other people. If he was murdered, that could very well be the reason his body has never been found.

I would have liked to hear elaboration on what kind of Soldier he was. I know we got a little bit from his first sergeant that was generally positive. But when a Soldier misses a report or movement time, you ask him or her lots of questions. You want to know if there's a life circumstance there that's effecting his or her overall well-being. I suppose I wonder what reason Burgwinkel gave for not showing up. I wonder if his work habits began to change. I wonder if his behavior changed. I wonder if he had ever been formally disciplined for anything prior to his instances of going AWOL.

The segment said he was involved in a shoplifting incident which is why he was kicked out of the ranger program. I believe the segment implies that this incident is what got him transferred and stuck in kitchen duty.

I believe the segment implies that this incident is what got him transferred and stuck in kitchen duty.

I never thought the move was related to the shop-lifting incident. That really doesn't make sense to me. If he were being investigated for any incident and Ft Ord was his duty station, he would have stayed at Ft Ord. He also would have been likely reprimanded at Ft Ord. I think his going to Ft Lewis was a regular PCS move--that is, he would have gone with or without the incident. You don't move people to punish them in the Army, despite what I'm sure more than a few Soldiers at Ft Polk will tell you. :)

I also still don't understand the "kitchen duty" thing. I would really like to know if this was relatively common in 1993. I could see doing something to assist the food service specialists in the kitchen being part of "extra duty" (non-judicial punishment), though. That would imply, however, that Burgwinkel did something at FT LEWIS, not Ord, to earn that punishment. Offenses worthy of non-judicial punishment don't really "follow" you if you're set to move. You're corrected, and THEN you move, usually.

Then again, this WAS 1993, so who knows.


Also, you're in deep crap if you shoplift. That's an offense punishable by UCMJ and will merit you a lot more than extra duty if you're found guilty (although extra duty CAN be part of your sentence). I suppose I wonder what the full extent of any punishment he received was. Often, enlisted are busted down in rank and have to forfeit pay for such offenses--in addition to things like extra duty.

I think it's becoming ever more apparent that UM really did manage to leave all the important stuff out of this segment, and instead seemed to fill it with as much fantasyland secret squirrel conspiracy BS as humanly possible.

Just had to go back and rewatch the segment because the online article about Burgwinkel left a lot of information out. Near the beginning, Robert Stack says something like "at the time it seemed like Justin was staging cloak and dagger theatrics to impress his friends" but only after he disappeared did his family begin to take him seriously. That little sentence is pretty telling, IMO. If his friends thought he was bs'ing at the time, that tells me he wasn't very convincing with his story. Especially if his friends could read right through him. The segment also says "Justin was yanked from the prestigious[ranger] program after he was implicated in a shoplifting incident." The segment does not say he was transferred as a disciplinary measure, but it does gloss over the shoplifting incident.

Just had to go back and rewatch the segment because the online article about Burgwinkel left a lot of information out. Near the beginning, Robert Stack says something like "at the time it seemed like Justin was staging cloak and dagger theatrics to impress his friends" but only after he disappeared did his family begin to take him seriously. That little sentence is pretty telling, IMO. If his friends thought he was bs'ing at the time, that tells me he wasn't very convincing with his story. Especially if his friends could read right through him. The segment also says "Justin was yanked from the prestigious[ranger] program after he was implicated in a shoplifting incident." The segment does not say he was transferred as a disciplinary measure, but it does gloss over the shoplifting incident.

Yeah, it looks like he probably was found guilty and punished, then.

Looking back on it, considering that he was a very junior Soldier and that this could have very well been his first offense, he could have very well received a company-grade Article 15 (non-judicial punishment--that is, there's no court-martial and the punishment is imposed locally, specifically by the company commander in this case). That would definitely imply extra duty. But I guess I still wonder why it wasn't apparently imposed on him at Ft Ord, since that is where the offense took place. Who knows.

I get the feeling Burgwinkel was one of those very brilliant, capable Soldiers that do their jobs very well and never give their squad leaders or first sergeants any real grief while at work, but manage to get themselves into some really stupid, stupid things during their off-duty hours and eventually become a problem that way.

The going AWOL thing by taking a trip to California to visit a girlfriend and not reporting back in for a day or so is actually not incredibly uncommon--it's one of those dumb things young Soldiers sometimes do--but it's still worthy of correction. The shoplifting thing, however, is relatively unusual. To make a habit of either of those things is not a good indicator, but I suppose it's not really clear if Burgwinkel ever committed additional offenses. Judging from what his first sergeant said, it seems he was actually pretty good about reporting when he was supposed to.

The sobbing incidents, past negative event that adversely effected his plans (shoplifting and boot out of the "Ranger program"), and sudden change in behavior (goes from reporting for duty on time and generally keeping his nose clean to completely going AWOL in an entirely different state) lead me to lean toward something psychological going on there. That kid was majorly stressed out for some reason.

The sobbing incidents, past negative event that adversely effected his plans (shoplifting and boot out of the "Ranger program"), and sudden change in behavior (goes from reporting for duty on time and generally keeping his nose clean to completely going AWOL in an entirely different state) lead me to lean toward something psychological going on there. That kid was majorly stressed out for some reason.

I suppose it's possible that whatever he was involved in, combined with the fact that he was transferred from CA to WA could have contributed to his heightened stress and weird behavior. Especially if that meant he was further away from his girlfriend and his "associates".

Hello all, My name is Casey and I am Justin Burgwinkels younger brother. I have checked this thread throughout the years simply because it is the only thing online that even mentions Justin. In the summer of '93 I was just turning 13 when I found out he was missing. My intention is to clear up some questions you might have about the case. As a child my memories of him are awesome. He was my big brother and I really looked up to him. What stood out about him was that when someone is very intelligent they typically lack in another area (socially, motor skills, interpersonal skills, etc,) Justin was very smart and tough. He could have gone to any college he wanted but was very serious about the military. Specifically the Rangers and Delta. I served in the Marine Corps Infantry/Reconnaissance so I understand the military and how it works. Justin I believe joined as an Infantryman so he could try out for the Rangers and did successfully pass Ranger school, and was going to a Ranger Battalion when he was selected to go to the Presidio to learn Korean. Please bear with me as I was a kid when he was doing this. However, what strikes me as odd is that they took him into the linguist program as he only had a few years in. He used to write my grandmother in fluent French as well and she was so impressed. The whole shoplifting thing is very strange as he never stole anything ever growing up and it was completely out of character for him. If that was legit then why wouldn't they just put him in a straight leg grunt unit and call it good. Kitchen duty? WTF and then transferring him to Washington state into an MOS that was not his? After they sent him to the Presidio to learn Korean. The whole thing doesn't add up. I'm not trying to say he is the secret squirrel but it doesn't make sense. I cant understand the pistol purchase other than he liked guns. We grew up shooting and maybe he felt like he was getting into some serious ****. The biggest misconception is that he was mentally unstable. That couldn't be further from the truth and is the reason this is so troubling to me so many years later. I am completely objective to this. The ****ing police wouldn't even touch this. No missing persons report, The army never even declared him a deserter. No one would cooperate. Suicide is an easy answer but I know it isn't true as I did know him. Plus wheres the body? His car sat a motel for over a month and his entire identity was left in it. I am 33 years old now and I cant figure it out. I spoke to a man from my home town about ten years ago who was with him at Ord and he told me some things but when we were supposed to meet up to talk further he ended up dead. Once again I don't know if that was a coincidence but it is strange never the less. Drugs and gangs is also ridiculous as he couldn't have despised people like that more and never associated with any ****bags. Unfortunatly only God and Justin know what happened

The sobbing incidents, past negative event that adversely effected his plans (shoplifting and boot out of the "Ranger program"), and sudden change in behavior (goes from reporting for duty on time and generally keeping his nose clean to completely going AWOL in an entirely different state) lead me to lean toward something psychological going on there. That kid was majorly stressed out for some reason.

I'm in the Navy and one of my shipmates who recently got transferred to another command was once a student at the SWCC program (Surface Warfare Combat Crewman), they are basically the main combat support to Special Operations, particularly SEALs. He was in the program for a good amount of time but at some point, he got into a scuffle of some kind and went to captain's mast for it, and part of his punishment was disenrollment from the program. Many of my other shipmates could easily tell he had some sort of psychological issues going on with him; he had somewhat of a macho-man attitude and didn't seem like he quite learned his lesson.

I wouldn't be surprised if Burgwinkel still felt angry about not being able to amount to elite material of an achievement like becoming a Ranger. But as he was trying to pretend like he was engaging in some sort of top secret activity, he felt even more stressed out that not only was he fooling himself and those around him, but he could not stage such a thing effectively.

I hope that we can find out what happened to Justin one day.

I just found this board and wanted to connect with you folks. I live on the same street as Justin did until he left for the military, and still live there. I talk to his Dad a lot and know some things about this from talking to him and Justin's Mother. She is deceased, mostly from the effects of a broken heart and never having closure from a missing child.

Justin was one of the nicest kids I ever knew and I still see his brothers from time to time. Very hard for me to believe he was planning a life of crime.

He attended the Presidio for a time to learn Korean and then something happened and he was given another assignment. I hope he's still alive and contacts his family someday but am not holding my breath either.

If you have any questions just ask...I haven't read this whole thread but I will. I just happened upon this today as I was thinking about Justin and how long he'd been gone. I decided to do a web search and found this, needless to say I was very surprised to find it.

Clinton Ma Resident.
I also grew up in Clinton and attended school with Justin. I wasnt really cool with him, I think we may have had words once or twice and almost fought?? I have been intrigued with his story since learning of his disappearance. Growing up in a small town such as Clinton there isnt much BIG "trouble" one can get into at an early age. Maybe when he finally got out into the world he realized that he could do or be anyone he wanted?? Sometimes that also includes getting involved with people that have other interests in mind? Hopefully he is still alive and reading these posts from somewhere in Europe or Asia or.................

Hello all, My name is Casey and I am Justin Burgwinkels younger brother. I have checked this thread throughout the years simply because it is the only thing online that even mentions Justin. In the summer of '93 I was just turning 13 when I found out he was missing. My intention is to clear up some questions you might have about the case. As a child my memories of him are awesome. He was my big brother and I really looked up to him. What stood out about him was that when someone is very intelligent they typically lack in another area (socially, motor skills, interpersonal skills, etc,) Justin was very smart and tough. He could have gone to any college he wanted but was very serious about the military. Specifically the Rangers and Delta. I served in the Marine Corps Infantry/Reconnaissance so I understand the military and how it works. Justin I believe joined as an Infantryman so he could try out for the Rangers and did successfully pass Ranger school, and was going to a Ranger Battalion when he was selected to go to the Presidio to learn Korean. Please bear with me as I was a kid when he was doing this. However, what strikes me as odd is that they took him into the linguist program as he only had a few years in. He used to write my grandmother in fluent French as well and she was so impressed. The whole shoplifting thing is very strange as he never stole anything ever growing up and it was completely out of character for him. If that was legit then why wouldn't they just put him in a straight leg grunt unit and call it good. Kitchen duty? WTF and then transferring him to Washington state into an MOS that was not his? After they sent him to the Presidio to learn Korean. The whole thing doesn't add up. I'm not trying to say he is the secret squirrel but it doesn't make sense. I cant understand the pistol purchase other than he liked guns. We grew up shooting and maybe he felt like he was getting into some serious ****. The biggest misconception is that he was mentally unstable. That couldn't be further from the truth and is the reason this is so troubling to me so many years later. I am completely objective to this. The ****ing police wouldn't even touch this. No missing persons report, The army never even declared him a deserter. No one would cooperate. Suicide is an easy answer but I know it isn't true as I did know him. Plus wheres the body? His car sat a motel for over a month and his entire identity was left in it. I am 33 years old now and I cant figure it out. I spoke to a man from my home town about ten years ago who was with him at Ord and he told me some things but when we were supposed to meet up to talk further he ended up dead. Once again I don't know if that was a coincidence but it is strange never the less. Drugs and gangs is also ridiculous as he couldn't have despised people like that more and never associated with any ****bags. Unfortunatly only God and Justin know what happened
...just curious ,Casey, of the initials of the person that was at Ord with Justin.

I found Justin's brother on social media. I looked at his profile and saw a picture about Justin. He's still missing its so sad. His father is still alive. Also, for a while I have been looking into this case and found virtually nothing... until not to long ago.......

I've been googling Justin's name and I get a few hits from background checks etc, white pages etc.So this means that he could have applied for something that could have made his name pop up online such as a loan or housing etc. I really hope that he's out there.

I found Justin's brother on social media. I looked at his profile and saw a picture about Justin. He's still missing its so sad. His father is still alive. Also, for a while I have been looking into this case and found virtually nothing... until not to long ago.......

I've been googling Justin's name and I get a few hits from background checks etc, white pages etc.So this means that he could have applied for something that could have made his name pop up online such as a loan or housing etc. I really hope that he's out there.
..I would have thought, if he is still alive(?), that he would have changed his name, etc. Are those sites pulling his old clinton, mass. info??...dont know how they work/operate?

It's strange. The information appeared recently. When I was looking into this case about a few months ago, there was no trace of him online other than this site which I find very bizarre. This information was not online as I could remember and I'm pretty sure that members here can say that some of this information couldn't be found online a while back. It's interesting to see that this information comes up now.

It's strange. The information appeared recently. When I was looking into this case about a few months ago, there was no trace of him online other than this site which I find very bizarre. This information was not online as I could remember and I'm pretty sure that members here can say that some of this information couldn't be found online a while back. It's interesting to see that this information comes up now.
..it is interesting, are they using his Clinton, Mass. information? When I spoke with some cats I know from Clinton who were in The Army at the same time they stated that they were told he was dealing drugs......this was in 1994 that I spoke with them, two brothers. I always thought because of his language skills and being from a small town in massachusetts that he would never run into anyone he knew, especially outside The U.S....??

I need more info. I need to know more! Who has it?!

UM wiki is a good source.

Another is to use the search function. I think there is at least one thread on every UM case (in some cases, multiple threads).

Here's the main thread on Burgwinkel (although I don't think there was ever much info outside of what was in the original segment):

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=120000

Here's the main thread on Burgwinkel (although I don't think there was ever much info outside of what was in the original segment):

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=120000
Yes I agree with you. Just speculation is all we have.

The initials of the man were S. A. I used to think that he joined the French Foreign Legion, but he would have had to gotten himself to France to enlist and
his wallet with id were found in his car. Unless he had a duplicate license made or they took him straight from the US then that theory is out.

From what S.A. told me and what the original investigator who posted on this thread said, He had something going on in Seaside which was a shady place in the early 90's. Possibly gun running or drugs or a second girlfriend but I really have a tough time buying that having known him and being his brother. He still could have had the opportunity to continue his dream of a Ranger/Delta career after his non judicial punishment seeing as he smoked the ASVAB And Ranger school and they had him at the Presidio in the foreign linguist program.

That's the weird part from the military side. No one would get their MOS Changed from an elite unit to a cook for potentially stealing a Nintendo game (he didn't even play or own a Nintendo). He would get his article 15 and go to a regular infantry unit having screwed himself. On the phone one time with me he was at the Presidio and was pumped that he had impressed some senior officers . That's all he said because I asked him why he was so upbeat.

The Army would not tell our family anything at all and never declared him a deserter. That's weird. The local police didn't do a missing persons report either after being told he was missing. Someone did call the house after the original episode aired and said they were with him and he died in south America.

Yolanda was uncooperative as well from what I recall. I just wish I knew so he could rest in peace and be properly buried.

So many dead ends it seems from both Military and local authorities. Appreciate you sharing information on here Casey! I remember you but I think you are 4 or 5 years younger and did you go to Assabet?.... S.A(?)...did not want to ask for full name on here but if you feel it is ok and appropriate, I was just wondering who that is? Odd that he passed away before revealing more details. I spoke with Shane and his brother in '94.. they said they were stationed in California around the same time.....they were giving very vague information it seemed. Thanks again Casey

The initials of the man were S. A. I used to think that he joined the French Foreign Legion, but he would have had to gotten himself to France to enlist and
his wallet with id were found in his car. Unless he had a duplicate license made or they took him straight from the US then that theory is out.

From what S.A. told me and what the original investigator who posted on this thread said, He had something going on in Seaside which was a shady place in the early 90's. Possibly gun running or drugs or a second girlfriend but I really have a tough time buying that having known him and being his brother. He still could have had the opportunity to continue his dream of a Ranger/Delta career after his non judicial punishment seeing as he smoked the ASVAB And Ranger school and they had him at the Presidio in the foreign linguist program.

That's the weird part from the military side. No one would get their MOS Changed from an elite unit to a cook for potentially stealing a Nintendo game (he didn't even play or own a Nintendo). He would get his article 15 and go to a regular infantry unit having screwed himself. On the phone one time with me he was at the Presidio and was pumped that he had impressed some senior officers . That's all he said because I asked him why he was so upbeat.

The Army would not tell our family anything at all and never declared him a deserter. That's weird. The local police didn't do a missing persons report either after being told he was missing. Someone did call the house after the original episode aired and said they were with him and he died in south America.

Yolanda was uncooperative as well from what I recall. I just wish I knew so he could rest in peace and be properly buried.

Have you tried to file a missing persons report recently? Maybe they'll take it now.

Also, I am so sorry for your pain and suffering through this. I cannot imagine losing my brother at 13.

Hello all, My name is Casey and I am Justin Burgwinkels younger brother. I have checked this thread throughout the years simply because it is the only thing online that even mentions Justin. In the summer of '93 I was just turning 13 when I found out he was missing. My intention is to clear up some questions you might have about the case. As a child my memories of him are awesome. He was my big brother and I really looked up to him. What stood out about him was that when someone is very intelligent they typically lack in another area (socially, motor skills, interpersonal skills, etc,) Justin was very smart and tough. He could have gone to any college he wanted but was very serious about the military. Specifically the Rangers and Delta. I served in the Marine Corps Infantry/Reconnaissance so I understand the military and how it works. Justin I believe joined as an Infantryman so he could try out for the Rangers and did successfully pass Ranger school, and was going to a Ranger Battalion when he was selected to go to the Presidio to learn Korean. Please bear with me as I was a kid when he was doing this. However, what strikes me as odd is that they took him into the linguist program as he only had a few years in. He used to write my grandmother in fluent French as well and she was so impressed. The whole shoplifting thing is very strange as he never stole anything ever growing up and it was completely out of character for him. If that was legit then why wouldn't they just put him in a straight leg grunt unit and call it good. Kitchen duty? WTF and then transferring him to Washington state into an MOS that was not his? After they sent him to the Presidio to learn Korean. The whole thing doesn't add up. I'm not trying to say he is the secret squirrel but it doesn't make sense. I cant understand the pistol purchase other than he liked guns. We grew up shooting and maybe he felt like he was getting into some serious ****. The biggest misconception is that he was mentally unstable. That couldn't be further from the truth and is the reason this is so troubling to me so many years later. I am completely objective to this. The ****ing police wouldn't even touch this. No missing persons report, The army never even declared him a deserter. No one would cooperate. Suicide is an easy answer but I know it isn't true as I did know him. Plus wheres the body? His car sat a motel for over a month and his entire identity was left in it. I am 33 years old now and I cant figure it out. I spoke to a man from my home town about ten years ago who was with him at Ord and he told me some things but when we were supposed to meet up to talk further he ended up dead. Once again I don't know if that was a coincidence but it is strange never the less. Drugs and gangs is also ridiculous as he couldn't have despised people like that more and never associated with any ****bags. Unfortunatly only God and Justin know what happened

WOW!

Casey, I hope you're still out there, visiting this board. I am sorry for what happened to Justin. I hope one day you and your family can finally put this to rest.

I agree with you that a suicide ruling is ridiculous because there is no body. I guess the medical examiner believes that Justin killed himself and THEN hid his own body. Ridiculous.

A few thoughts on Justin Burgwinkel:

1. Ever consistent, UM once again doesn't make clear what Burgwinkel's actual MOS in the Army was.

Burgwinkel could have been an intelligence analyst, a Patriot fire control enhanced operator, an infantryman, or a human resource specialist. Each of those jobs would have different implications in the context of the entire story.

I wasn't in the Army of the early '90s--but I know about the only "kitchen duty" Soldiers do today is in tiny combat outposts such as those in Afghanistan. Dining facilities today are managed and operated by civilian contractors or Soldiers who actually joined the Army TO cook and manage dining facilities (the MOS is 92G: food service specialist). It could have been different in 1993. I don't know.

The main point is that A) we don't know what Burgwinkel actually did in the Army, and B) "kitchen duty" hasn't been an Army garrison reality since probably about the 1960s. It seems more probable to me that Burgwinkel either actually WAS a food service specialist, or was involuntarily re-classed from whatever job he was doing before TO food service specialist, for whatever reason.

2. The "Ranger program" thing is very confusing.

U.S. Army Ranger School is a two-month course held in three phases at three different locations--Ft Benning, GA, Camp Merrill, GA, and Eglin Air Force Base, FL. THIS is the actual course. It is one of the Army's most physically and mentally challenging schools, and the pass rate is low.

Many units hold "pre-Ranger" courses to prepare Soldiers who have received Ranger School slots. These courses usually last anywhere from two to three weeks and serve primarily to give future trainees a small glimpse of what to expect as well as "weed out" anyone who may stand a low chance of graduating. They are "field" training events--that is, you're "in the field" the entire time you're there. You're not going back at night to sleep at home or in barracks.

It should also be noted that completing Ranger School does NOT put you in a "Ranger unit", or mean your actual job is "Army Ranger." Here's how it works:

Joe Snuffy's MOS is 11B: infantryman. Joe's rank is Staff Sergeant, E-6.

SSG Snuffy receives a Ranger School slot. He attends his unit's internal "pre-Ranger" course for two weeks, and then attends the actual Ranger School in Georgia and Florida.

He graduates the course and may now wear a "Ranger" tab on his shoulder to show that he is "qualified"--that is, he successfully passed.

We can now call SSG Snuffy a Ranger, but that is NOT his job. His job is still 11B, infantryman. "Ranger" is a qualification he earned, but not his job.

Here is another example using a different Army course--Airborne School:

Jane Smith is a 35F: intelligence analyst. Her rank is Specialist, E-4.

SPC Smith attends Airborne School at Ft Benning, GA and passes. She may now wear "Airborne wings" on the front of her uniform to show that she is Airborne-qualified.

We may now say SPC Smith is "Airborne", but her job remains the same: intelligence analyst.

Given all this, I don't understand what's meant by the term "Ranger program". About the only thing I can think of is that perhaps Burgwinkel needed, or felt he needed, extensive physical conditioning to prepare for a potential Ranger School slot, and perhaps his unit offered such a program during non-duty hours or as an alternative to regular unit physical training in the morning. This informal thing then took on a very official, serious life when some UM researcher who didn't know a damn thing about the military decided it was a lot more serious and official than what it actually was. I submit that this is likely what occurred.

3. I also don't understand the bit about "language training." Language training isn't part of Ranger School. It IS required, of course, for linguists and many Special Forces specialties, however. Many, many Special Forces Soldiers complete Ranger School prior to their SF training--so perhaps what Burgwinkel ACTUALLY wanted to do was be an SF Soldier. Ranger School would have been a mere stepping stone on that path.


I am in total agreement with Cars that Burgwinkel was actually involved in something real and illegal that may or may not have involved other Soldiers, but ultimately had nothing to do with the Army. I think he also probably had a penchant for exaggerating his military career, as evidenced by the melodramatic "dog tags" story he gave to his girlfriend and his White Sands reference. I think these exaggerations unfortunately caused much confusion in the far-less-military-saavy public of the early '90s, and the government-conspiracy-myth gained legs.
for the most part junior enlisted soldiers do not attend the official Ranger School at Fort Benning. Things may have changed but it was that way in the early 1990s. The course is a leadership one not designed for privates or specialists (a rank that is basically a senior private). For a newby, therefore, the ranger program would entail enlisting to be an infantry private in one of the Army's three ranger battalions. One of these was and is at Fort Lewis, WA. If the person stayed in the rangers long enough and became an NCO, ie a sergeant, then he'd probably go to the school. Special Forces (the Green Berets) and the Delta Force do most of their recruiting directly from the rangers although recently the Army has a recruiting program where people can enlist directly for SF. However it was not so in the early 1990s and the modern program has many washouts because it is hard for someone wiyth no military experience. Most end up as paratroopers in the 82d Airborne Division.
Language training in Korean does not seem to mesh with an assignment as a ranger private at Fort Lewis. More likely the trainee was in a linguist or interpreter position assigned to a unit supporting the 1st Special Forces Group which was then stationed at Fort Lewis, WA. This unit's general mission was and is the Far East. The Defense Language Institute at Monterey is a highly selective and intense school. If a student there did not seem serious about the training maybe by committing crime off post, they would be kicked out. Since they now no longer would be able to be qualified for their specialty, but still had a military obligation, they would be reclassified in accordance with the needs of the service based on their qualifications from entrance aptitude tests. Everyone can qualify as an Army cook. During this same period Fort Ord closed and all its troops were moved to Fort Lewis. I think Burgwinkel probably was very dissatisfied to go from a linguist supporting the Green Berets to a cook who basically only boils water and stacks ration boxes in the field. Whatever happened next was the result of this dissatisfaction. We do not know enough to conject further but a look at his personnel records would at least give his assignments, his specialties and when he was administratively discharged for being AWOL. BTW while AWOLs are not pursued, if he ever got caught for another crime, he'd be eventually dragged back to the Army for punishment so he probably has not been caught for any crimes.
Reporting someone AWOL is pretty much the Army's version of filing a missing person report. When I was at Fort Benning years ago the body of a murdered woman soldier was found in the woodsie part of the post. She had been reported AWOL a year earlier. The relatives were outraged and claimed they told them she wouldn't go AWOL. But enough do and all the parents (except those hiding their child) say that so it got short shrift. I think that case too is still unsolved.

Personally, With all due respect. I believe Burgwinkel had a severe case of Walter Middy Syndrome.

Personally, With all due respect. I believe Burgwinkel had a severe case of Walter Middy Syndrome.

Mitty* :-)

I'm always up for a good literary reference, so well played on that one. :)

That being said, I disagree. I think Burgwinkel was involved in something. I'm just not sure if it was a clandestine military operative or something entirely different that got him killed...

Personally, With all due respect. I believe Burgwinkel had a severe case of Walter Middy Syndrome.

+1. Never a doubt in my mind.

I'm always up for a good literary reference, so well played on that one. :)

That being said, I disagree. I think Burgwinkel was involved in something. I'm just not sure if it was a clandestine military operative or something entirely different that got him killed...

Hard to imagine it being from the Military. He was a cook. Conspiracy Theorists will have fun with that statement. I maintain he aimed high with his goals and for no fault but his own. Was brought back down to earth. As anyone old enough to understand. We all have done so. And for those who haven't. Good for you lol. I can speak with somewhat experience. All my life I wanted to be a Fighter Pilot. Entered the AF with hopes and expected to be one. That was a no go. Too young an unfocused. It took me a LOOOOONG time sorting Personnel Files (Which is what I did) to get over it. My grades were sub par. So much so that I was lucky even with college credits to get in. Even right after 9/11. Its a let down to your ego. Really tough. You wanna be going "Mach 2 with your hair on fire" (Top Gun reference haha Yeah Its Navy oh well) shooting down Migs and Sukhois. But you're in an office. Answering calls. Setting up appointments. Answering to Captains and Staff Sergeants on a Joint Base. It seems so much better in the movies. I knew more about the potential of Fighter Aircraft than pilots that were in Pre-Flight Training. Once your in. You realize Hollywood let you down lol. Anyways, I'm rambling. Ive seen it in guys who joined like that. They wanna impress. And they want it to seem so glorious. They can't impress from within. So they make it sound so cool to people NOT in the Military. Had a guy I talked to everyday who told his wife some BS story so he could leave all the time. His excuse was he was cheating on her. Its done all the time. Not to the extent that Burgwinkel (That's my opinion on Bergwinkel I could be wrong) did. I think he wanted to be important. You'd be surprised. The branches are all full of Young Walter Mitty's. Some carry it out and put it on thicker than others. Hell, I was one of them. It's especially hard when your family has a strong important military history. And it is somewhat of a burden. My dad was in AF Intel, My Grandpa as Gunnery Sarg in Korea and Vietnam. He even was a chauffeur (backup) to Ike's Wife a few times. You feel like a failure. I did. You just have to play the cards dealt to you. And not feel sorry for yourself. If I spent more time studying. And less time partying. Maybe I coulda been a fighter pilot. Instead I did a little over 3 years. And got a Discharge for Family Reasons. Not glorious at all lol. I fill out forms for jobs and you'll get a "Thanks for your service". And I always correct em. I dont deserve that. I was a member of the "Chair Force" lol. The only plus is when you wear like a dress uniform. You can get a lot of looks and potential numbers from women. The negative thing about it. If you're married its useless lol. Just my opinion. Sorry for rambling.

Mitty* :-)
Thanks for correcting my goof

I said it before, its strange he is not listed on the Charley Project.

I said it before, its strange he is not listed on the Charley Project.


I agree. That's some odd stuff right there.

I always got the sense this was a guy unhappy with his job and went crazy then had some unexplained event happen. I highly doubt it was military related.

I'm sorry but I sincerely doubt he was working on some CIA related activity. He would not have referenced a hollywood movie (twice) and been so OBVIOUS in wanting everyone to think he was on a "secret mission." He couldve been involved with shady people involved in some illegal activity or whatever but the whole CIA angle he tried to get people to believe is just too obvious to me. He went AWOL and showed up at his gf's apartment. That doesn't sound like someone working for the CIA or intelligence community. Again, maybe he wanted to be somebody so he got involved with shady criminals. However, in the beginning at least his disappearance seemed voluntary. I have a feeling he killed himself, maybe out in the woods or somewhere remote. He staged the motel scene so all his belongings would be found the way he wanted.

I'm sorry but I sincerely doubt he was working on some CIA related activity. He would not have referenced a hollywood movie (twice) and been so OBVIOUS in wanting everyone to think he was on a "secret mission." He couldve been involved with shady people involved in some illegal activity or whatever but the whole CIA angle he tried to get people to believe is just too obvious to me. He went AWOL and showed up at his gf's apartment. That doesn't sound like someone working for the CIA or intelligence community. Again, maybe he wanted to be somebody so he got involved with shady criminals. However, in the beginning at least his disappearance seemed voluntary. I have a feeling he killed himself, maybe out in the woods or somewhere remote. He staged the motel scene so all his belongings would be found the way he wanted. I agree

I'm sorry but I sincerely doubt he was working on some CIA related activity. He would not have referenced a hollywood movie (twice) and been so OBVIOUS in wanting everyone to think he was on a "secret mission." He couldve been involved with shady people involved in some illegal activity or whatever but the whole CIA angle he tried to get people to believe is just too obvious to me. He went AWOL and showed up at his gf's apartment. That doesn't sound like someone working for the CIA or intelligence community. Again, maybe he wanted to be somebody so he got involved with shady criminals. However, in the beginning at least his disappearance seemed voluntary. I have a feeling he killed himself, maybe out in the woods or somewhere remote. He staged the motel scene so all his belongings would be found the way he wanted.

I agree with you, but I also think him referencing "White Sands" is him telling everyone EXACTLY what happened. For those who haven't seen the movie, Willem Dafoe finds a body in the desert and decides to pretend to be him only to get caught up in the world of gun running and espionage. I think Burgwinkel did something similar only to get mixed in with the wrong crowd who killed him. This isn't Hollywood with a great ending and unfortunately, Justin found that out the hard way.

Well, he wasn't involved with any intelligence agency because his behavior would be laughable at best. He might have gotten involved with drug dealers or whatever to feel he was "somebody" however the briefcase with papers he was just tearing into pieces? I just don't buy it.

He went AWOL and showed up at his girlfriends house and hung out with her for days on end. If you're involved in drugs or illegal smuggling of anything, you keep it on the down low as much as humanly possible. Also, you're associates wouldn't call your girlfriends apartment phone and say "the mission is off" that is so laughable if the story wasn't so tragic.

Also, he is not listed on the Charley Project and given his case was even featured on a National TV show that's very odd in itself.

If I recall correctly, someone claiming to be a former PD on the case said that he had another girlfriend in the area where his base was located. (if that source is the real deal.)

Anyways, I find it so odd that he isn't listed on the CP or really any missing person site. Something's up with this. I think there's something we don't know about the case. Either police classified if now as voluntarily missing (however you can still list someone on CP) or the family knows something we don't.

Again, I'm not sure and I'm not insinuating the family is "in on it". However, as with many cases on UM there is ALOT of info left out and in this case there really is no other information online. I think UM might have even played up the "CIA/Shady life" theory too (as it had played up scenarios on other cases featured). I just think were missing information on this one.

Well, he wasn't involved with any intelligence agency because his behavior would be laughable at best. He might have gotten involved with drug dealers or whatever to feel he was "somebody" however the briefcase with papers he was just tearing into pieces? I just don't buy it.

He went AWOL and showed up at his girlfriends house and hung out with her for days on end. If you're involved in drugs or illegal smuggling of anything, you keep it on the down low as much as humanly possible. Also, you're associates wouldn't call your girlfriends apartment phone and say "the mission is off" that is so laughable if the story wasn't so tragic.

Also, he is not listed on the Charley Project and given his case was even featured on a National TV show that's very odd in itself.

If I recall correctly, someone claiming to be a former PD on the case said that he had another girlfriend in the area where his base was located. (if that source is the real deal.)

Anyways, I find it so odd that he isn't listed on the CP or really any missing person site. Something's up with this. I think there's something we don't know about the case. Either police classified if now as voluntarily missing (however you can still list someone on CP) or the family knows something we don't.

Again, I'm not sure and I'm not insinuating the family is "in on it". However, as with many cases on UM there is ALOT of info left out and in this case there really is no other information online. I think UM might have even played up the "CIA/Shady life" theory too (as it had played up scenarios on other cases featured). I just think were missing information on this one.

I agree with you. I believe Justin's brother as well as a few friends posted on this thread previously. Not sure if any of them mentioned something outside of what was mentioned in the broadcast but I'd love to hear fr0om them again.

Hard to imagine it being from the Military. He was a cook. Conspiracy Theorists will have fun with that statement. I maintain he aimed high with his goals and for no fault but his own. Was brought back down to earth. As anyone old enough to understand. We all have done so. And for those who haven't. Good for you lol. I can speak with somewhat experience. All my life I wanted to be a Fighter Pilot. Entered the AF with hopes and expected to be one. That was a no go. Too young an unfocused. It took me a LOOOOONG time sorting Personnel Files (Which is what I did) to get over it. My grades were sub par. So much so that I was lucky even with college credits to get in. Even right after 9/11. Its a let down to your ego. Really tough. You wanna be going "Mach 2 with your hair on fire" (Top Gun reference haha Yeah Its Navy oh well) shooting down Migs and Sukhois. But you're in an office. Answering calls. Setting up appointments. Answering to Captains and Staff Sergeants on a Joint Base. It seems so much better in the movies. I knew more about the potential of Fighter Aircraft than pilots that were in Pre-Flight Training. Once your in. You realize Hollywood let you down lol. Anyways, I'm rambling. Ive seen it in guys who joined like that. They wanna impress. And they want it to seem so glorious. They can't impress from within. So they make it sound so cool to people NOT in the Military. Had a guy I talked to everyday who told his wife some BS story so he could leave all the time. His excuse was he was cheating on her. Its done all the time. Not to the extent that Burgwinkel (That's my opinion on Bergwinkel I could be wrong) did. I think he wanted to be important. You'd be surprised. The branches are all full of Young Walter Mitty's. Some carry it out and put it on thicker than others. Hell, I was one of them. It's especially hard when your family has a strong important military history. And it is somewhat of a burden. My dad was in AF Intel, My Grandpa as Gunnery Sarg in Korea and Vietnam. He even was a chauffeur (backup) to Ike's Wife a few times. You feel like a failure. I did. You just have to play the cards dealt to you. And not feel sorry for yourself. If I spent more time studying. And less time partying. Maybe I coulda been a fighter pilot. Instead I did a little over 3 years. And got a Discharge for Family Reasons. Not glorious at all lol. I fill out forms for jobs and you'll get a "Thanks for your service". And I always correct em. I dont deserve that. I was a member of the "Chair Force" lol. The only plus is when you wear like a dress uniform. You can get a lot of looks and potential numbers from women. The negative thing about it. If you're married its useless lol. Just my opinion. Sorry for rambling.
That's an intersting perspective. a lot of personal military accounts can help clear up stereotypes. People especially military vets and future interested people should try to understand that there are a lot of different jobs in the military. One common theme I've found is when an individual has this over glamorous obsession or false point of view about the military and they join looking for that sensationalism they are almost always likely to be disappointed especially if they are not cut out to be in one of the elite specialties and they reclassify to something else. you know a lot of Air Force stories are featured on UM. Largely because of ufo and aircraft testing.

you know a lot of Air Force stories are featured on UM. Largely because of ufo and aircraft testing.

Yes! Y'all always get the UFO stories, and we always seem to get the government-killed-us-because-we-were-on-a-secret-mission tales.

Yes! Y'all always get the UFO stories, and we always seem to get the government-killed-us-because-we-were-on-a-secret-mission tales.

true. We did have the one guy that was missing time too. :confused:

so Justin is now finally listed on the Charley project website. It must have just been done within the last 8 or 6 months because I use to frequently mention how odd it was he wasn't listed on there. Also, the only source sited is Unsolved Mysteries on Charley project. Not much info besides that

Ok so he was added to the Charley Project recently in September 2014. (less than a year ago). Someone left this on the comments section of CP's blog

Gerard Swaven Says:
October 7, 2014 at 2:41 pm | Reply
I saw that you have recently added Justin Burgwinkel. I am from the same hometown as Mr. Burgwinkel and thought you might appreciate some additional background information. Justin is from Clinton, MA and graduated from Clinton High School in 1990. He was a standout on the cross country and basketball teams.

Fort Lewis (http://web.kitsapsun.com/archive/1993/11-02/288424_military_weapons_add_to_enforce.html) and Fort Ord (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1992-05-24/news/9205240585_1_hand-grenades-gangs-base-at-fort) were under investigation around the time of Burgwinkel's disappearance for weapons smuggling. If Burgwinkel was involved in any capacity with this, I could definitely see him being murdered.

Fort Lewis (http://web.kitsapsun.com/archive/1993/11-02/288424_military_weapons_add_to_enforce.html) and Fort Ord (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1992-05-24/news/9205240585_1_hand-grenades-gangs-base-at-fort) were under investigation around the time of Burgwinkel's disappearance for weapons smuggling. If Burgwinkel was involved in any capacity with this, I could definitely see him being murdered.
interesting

What's also interesting is that Justin is listed as a predecessor in his mother Diana's obituary in 2006, but in his paternal grandmother Waltraud Burgwinkel's obituary in 2014, Justin is listed as a survivor. 🤔

He was showing signs of severe mental illness-possibly made worse by illicit drug taking would be my bet. He seemed to be totally delusional, paranoid & living in a fantasy world, I wouldn't be surprised if he was being made fun of by others there winding him up about a top secret mission & one of them then phoned his girlfriend to tell him the mission was off. Think he either worked out/was told it was a joke, or he had worked himself into such a frenzy about it that it being 'cancelled' he decided to take himself somewhere very remote & shoot himself with the guns he bought.

He was showing signs of severe mental illness-possibly made worse by illicit drug taking would be my bet. He seemed to be totally delusional, paranoid & living in a fantasy world, I wouldn't be surprised if he was being made fun of by others there winding him up about a top secret mission & one of them then phoned his girlfriend to tell him the mission was off. Think he either worked out/was told it was a joke, or he had worked himself into such a frenzy about it that it being 'cancelled' he decided to take himself somewhere very remote & shoot himself with the guns he bought.

I think suicide is a possibility.

I think suicide is a possibility.

While murder is possible his behaviour points heavily towards it, I know it it is hard to judge from looking at photos but the ones they used/are online he just doesn't look right either-he just looks pretty scary/intense. I think/hope that nowadays his behaviour would have been picked up on & he would have been diagnosed with mental health problems & given therapy & maybe some medication-all the signs were there-a shoplifting incident, telling people he was involved in some secret mission, refusing to open a briefcase in front of his gf & then shredding papers inside when she sneaked a look, mood swings, crying, buying guns & ammo etc.

While murder is possible his behaviour points heavily towards it, I know it it is hard to judge from looking at photos but the ones they used/are online he just doesn't look right either-he just looks pretty scary/intense. I think/hope that nowadays his behaviour would have been picked up on & he would have been diagnosed with mental health problems & given therapy & maybe some medication-all the signs were there-a shoplifting incident, telling people he was involved in some secret mission, refusing to open a briefcase in front of his gf & then shredding papers inside when she sneaked a look, mood swings, crying, buying guns & ammo etc.
yes a lot of red flags there.

First after reading the many comments of people who knew Justin, he was very well liked and appreciated. I think it speaks well of his character.

Like so many here, I genuinely doubt that Justin was on some secret mission. The spy stuff doesn't fly.

Here's my question and concern. Aside from the account and testimony from the girlfriend about Justin "acting weird, cutting up paper, and going everywhere with a top secret briefcase" was this corroborated by anyone else?

Seriously, the final days of Justin's life is painted by a girlfriend who might have reasons to lie. I'm not suggesting that she is directly involved in his death, but I think she knows more than the "he became paranoid~ secret mission, white sands story" she told on UM. Justin's Mom never mentioned that he was acting out of the normal; only that she had stopped receiving calls from Justin.

We know that Justin was reassigned to Ft Lewis, but went AWOL and returned to see the girlfriend. I think Justin may have tried to persuade her to move with him or even marry him. She may have rebuffed him or even told Justin that she never loved him. I think she broke up with him and possibly drove him to suicide or possibly had a new guy beat him up or murder him. I know that this is a big theory, but his car was eventually found with his wallet, id, keys and military dog tags. In my opinion, people who want to make a hit just do so. I think someone wanted his car and personal affects to be found, but not his body. As you can probably tell, I don't believe the girlfriend and her story.

Unfortunately, it looks like JB had a mental breakdown of some sort & his disappearance was connected to this. I don't see him being on any kind of "secret mission", as he attested to his gf.

As for the "mysterious call" that the gf got one night when JB was out stating that "the mission was off" (or something to that effect), I don't put any stock in this at all. It could easily have been someone screwing with JB & the gf, and that's it.

Like so many here, I genuinely doubt that Justin was on some secret mission. The spy stuff doesn't fly.

We know that Justin was reassigned to Ft Lewis, but went AWOL and returned to see the girlfriend. I think Justin may have tried to persuade her to move with him or even marry him. She may have rebuffed him or even told Justin that she never loved him. I think she broke up with him and possibly drove him to suicide or possibly had a new guy beat him up or murder him. I know that this is a big theory, but his car was eventually found with his wallet, id, keys and military dog tags. In my opinion, people who want to make a hit just do so. I think someone wanted his car and personal affects to be found, but not his body. As you can probably tell, I don't believe the girlfriend and her story.

This is possible, but I didn't get that vibe from the gf as she was being interviewed on the segment. IMHO she didn't know any more about what happened to him than his parents.

I thought his mother and girlfriend came across as odd, as if they were hiding something...

Seriously, the final days of Justin's life is painted by a girlfriend who might have reasons to lie. I'm not suggesting that she is directly involved in his death, but I think she knows more than the "he became paranoid~ secret mission, white sands story" she told on UM. Justin's Mom never mentioned that he was acting out of the normal; only that she had stopped receiving calls from Justin.

Emphasis mine. It seems you contradicted yourself here.

We know that Justin was reassigned to Ft Lewis, but went AWOL and returned to see the girlfriend. I think Justin may have tried to persuade her to move with him or even marry him. She may have rebuffed him or even told Justin that she never loved him. I think she broke up with him and possibly drove him to suicide or possibly had a new guy beat him up or murder him. I know that this is a big theory, but his car was eventually found with his wallet, id, keys and military dog tags. In my opinion, people who want to make a hit just do so. I think someone wanted his car and personal affects to be found, but not his body. As you can probably tell, I don't believe the girlfriend and her story.

It's a big theory, alright. That's being charitable.

Found a fantastic Reddit post wherein someone carefully pieced together a timeline of Justin's Army career:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/padcvd/did_awol_soldier_justin_burgwinkel_disappear/

I was able to piece together his Military service through people that knew him.Performed well on DLAB (language aptitude test) and ASVAB (military aptitude test) He wanted to eventually be a Ranger, Delta or Special Forces kind of guy.

Enlisted in US Army as a 35P, Interpreter for Korean. appx 1986-87 Completed boot camp. Sent to Presido at Monterey, CA. Completed a large part of the course and was sent to Korea for familiarization training. At this point, he stole Nintendo cartridges and VHS tapes from a local vendor.

He was kicked out of the 35P course for an integrity violation and his Top Secret clearance was likely rejected for criminal activity. At this point, he had remaining service obligations and was not qualified for any jobs requiring a clearance.

1991: He was reassigned by the Army as a 92G, a cook. . Ord, right near the interpreter schoolhouse Presido. Assigned to HHC 9th Infantry Regiment, Fort Ord,California

His morale was crushed, he stopped trying hard and got pudgy. Focused mostly on partying and playing grabass. The unit was undergoing reorganization, his unit was split into one of the line units and he joined either 1/9 2/9 or 3/9 Infantry. He moved to Washington state with the unit.

He continued being a cook and started concocting secret agent stories which his family and friends dismissed as BS. Only once he disappeared did anyone take his stories seriously.

The rest in personal speculation:

He went AWOL, drove all over the west coast, visiting GF, family, etc. Bought two handguns and 1000 rounds. Parked at some shady hotel and abandoned his personal items. Jumped off a bridge or something. This way he dies a 'hero', doesn't have the stigma of suicide and escapes the failure of his military career and shattered view of himself. Possible mix of schizophrenia or other underlying mental health issues.

His military career is poorly explained in the Unsolved Mysteries show, and it seems like he lied to his family about what he did and did not accomplish. His brother Casey thought he completed Ranger training and enlisted as Infantry, but that does not seem to be the case. I think the show just went with what the family said and didn't draw his service records. I don't think he attended Ranger school or pre-Ranger. He likely planned to attend Ranger after language training, but having a criminal record and getting dropped from the schoolhouse so late in training does not do good things for your future.

So, Burgwinkel initially enlisted to become a Korean language specialist, which falls under the military intelligence branch and required a top secret security clearance. The shoplifting incident occurred in Korea at the tail end of his language training, and this caused him to 1) lose his clearance and 2) be kicked out of language school. He indeed was reassigned as a food service specialist, an MOS that does not require an elevated security clearance. At this point, Burgwinkel's life and career seems to have taken a downward trajectory.

I have always thought he committed suicide and that this is probably the reason why.

It really does suck. Although I agree that Justin's actions merited him removal from the course and revocation of his security clearance, I'm not sure a lot of care was taken in reassigning him an MOS. A total recipe for disaster. OF COURSE he began to develop even worse disciplinary problems.

He should have been placed in an MOS that allowed for the Army to utilize his clearly keen intellect, or at least his physical prowess. In the latter case, this is often what happens to hordes of young men who don't make it through Special Forces training every year. They are typically reassigned as infantrymen in the 82nd Airborne.

Thanks...all this discussion has certainly changed the way I look at this case now.

"The mission is off" phone call understandably had Justin's family and girlfriend believing it was possible that an outside party had something to do with his disappearance or that at the very least, others knew where he had gone. But I (and I'm sure most others on this board) think it was just a red herring. When I was younger, I admittedly did find some of the other parts of this segment suspicious which had me thinking that someone could have done him in, but I think Justin's actions speak for themselves.

Some of Justin's behavior prior to disappearing reminds me of the Billy Hargrove case. Both did not show up as they were supposed to and when confronted, they didn't immediately show up/call in because they knew there weren't going to be consequences to face. Billy was in fact pretty happy go lucky (a common occurrence in people about to take their own life, as they know they are about to end their pain), while Justin was adamant that he wasn't AWOL and would straighten things out right away--which, of course, he didn't. I agree with the theory that he probably jumped off a bridge. Suicidal people can't bury themselves, but they can end their lives in ways that make it very difficult for them to ever be found and jumping into a large body of water (especially an ocean) is a way to do that. Monterey Bay was very close to where his car was found, and just happens to be in the largest ocean in the world. If he did jump into it, odds are that he will never be found.

Suicidal people can't bury themselves, but they can end their lives in ways that make it very difficult for them to ever be found and jumping into a large body of water (especially an ocean) is a way to do that. Monterey Bay was very close to where his car was found, and just happens to be in the largest ocean in the world. If he did jump into it, odds are that he will never be found.

Exactly what I think is the most likely scenario here.

He could even be unidentified skeletal remains in some random sheriff's department, waiting for money to be allotted for DNA testing.

Found a fantastic Reddit post wherein someone carefully pieced together a timeline of Justin's Army career:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/padcvd/did_awol_soldier_justin_burgwinkel_disappear/



So, Burgwinkel initially enlisted to become a Korean language specialist, which falls under the military intelligence branch and required a top secret security clearance. The shoplifting incident occurred in Korea at the tail end of his language training, and this caused him to 1) lose his clearance and 2) be kicked out of language school. He indeed was reassigned as a food service specialist, an MOS that does not require an elevated security clearance. At this point, Burgwinkel's life and career seems to have taken a downward trajectory.

I have always thought he committed suicide and that this is probably the reason why.

It really does suck. Although I agree that Justin's actions merited him removal from the course and revocation of his security clearance, I'm not sure a lot of care was taken in reassigning him an MOS. A total recipe for disaster. OF COURSE he began to develop even worse disciplinary problems.

He should have been placed in an MOS that allowed for the Army to utilize his clearly keen intellect, or at least his physical prowess. In the latter case, this is often what happens to hordes of young men who don't make it through Special Forces training every year. They are typically reassigned as infantrymen in the 82nd Airborne.

This makes total sense. I hadn't really given much thought to the suicide theory but the reddit thread you posted along with your post is pretty convincing. He absolutely seemed like the type that bragged about his career. I cant blame him. Young guy, joining the military and likely pretty pumped about it. His suspension and all of the issues he got into certainly derailed everything he wanted to achieve ad told his family about. Embarrassment kicks in and he just didn't have the heart to tell anyone so he continued on with this façade about his military career taking off.

The "White Sands" portion of the story probably fits in perfectly. It was released during this time so he probably wanted to see it, based on its premise, and did and then concocted this elaborate story tying that movie into his entire ordeal to make it seem more realistic. It's a sad ordeal all around.

Found a fantastic Reddit post wherein someone carefully pieced together a timeline of Justin's Army career:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/padcvd/did_awol_soldier_justin_burgwinkel_disappear/



So, Burgwinkel initially enlisted to become a Korean language specialist, which falls under the military intelligence branch and required a top secret security clearance. The shoplifting incident occurred in Korea at the tail end of his language training, and this caused him to 1) lose his clearance and 2) be kicked out of language school. He indeed was reassigned as a food service specialist, an MOS that does not require an elevated security clearance. At this point, Burgwinkel's life and career seems to have taken a downward trajectory.

I have always thought he committed suicide and that this is probably the reason why.

It really does suck. Although I agree that Justin's actions merited him removal from the course and revocation of his security clearance, I'm not sure a lot of care was taken in reassigning him an MOS. A total recipe for disaster. OF COURSE he began to develop even worse disciplinary problems.

He should have been placed in an MOS that allowed for the Army to utilize his clearly keen intellect, or at least his physical prowess. In the latter case, this is often what happens to hordes of young men who don't make it through Special Forces training every year. They are typically reassigned as infantrymen in the 82nd Airborne.
I can definitely substantiate this. From my understanding the Air Force can discharge someone who doesn't make it through their training or reclassify them into another job, but the Air Force will usually place a person who doesn't make it in special forces (or linguist) into a job of the Air Force's choosing. It really sucks and doesn't make sense to me why they recruit so heavy on special forces and linguists and then in turn they don't throw recruits an olive branch if they cannot make the cut. those positions are extremely difficult to pass through the training. Now there could be more to it than what I know, but I do know what the fine print says when you sign your contract....and linguists/special forces trainees will be well aware of this before they sign.

I never bought into the idea that Justin was abducted or murdered. I think he was unhappy with his life and was trying to fill a void that existed by living out a fantasy. We know that suicide rates are high in the military and it for me is most likely what happened to Justin unfortunately. I wish he could have gotten the help that he needed.

I just watched this segment again. He could have easily put a friend up to it, but I now wonder if the "mission's off" phonecall to his gf wasn't Justin himself. A lot of people enjoy the military men stories UM featured, but to me, one you strip away any crazy conspiracy theories you can see them for what they are.

I don't however have the level of sympathy for Justin like some others have expressed. He messed up and paid the price. There's got to be some level of self accountability. He could have rebounded or learnt from it. He didn't have to kill himself.

I just watched this segment again. He could have easily put a friend up to it, but I now wonder if the "mission's off" phonecall to his gf wasn't Justin himself. A lot of people enjoy the military men stories UM featured, but to me, one you strip away any crazy conspiracy theories you can see them for what they are.

I don't however have the level of sympathy for Justin like some others have expressed. He messed up and paid the price. There's got to be some level of self accountability. He could have rebounded or learnt from it. He didn't have to kill himself.

I think sometimes people have a false sense of reality in regards to military service, especially the more difficult positions that require difficult training and qualifications. that is why so many people like Justin who try to do it are not able to. and then people who are cut out for it...it is very difficult because of the sacrifices and high level of personal discipline and accountability. with that said I have a lot of empathy for people like Justin who made mistakes and need mental health care. Not saying he did not deserve to be punished for his crime, but definitely needed help. At the end of the day I think he was hurting mentally and was not cut out for the Army. his GF and parents being unfamiliar with the army, they were not able to see through his behavior.

A lot of talk gets made about family, friends, superiors and co-workers spotting people in these situations and getting them the help they need. The reality of it is many times people in bad spots slip thru the cracks and even when they don't sometimes they won't listen and you can't force them to get the help they need.

A lot of talk gets made about family, friends, superiors and co-workers spotting people in these situations and getting them the help they need. The reality of it is many times people in bad spots slip thru the cracks and even when they don't sometimes they won't listen and you can't force them to get the help they need.

yes that is true. that is exactly why the military services owe it to their people to try their best to help take care of them. military service is inherently difficult. and there is a disconnect between the military population and the civilian population, yet people who serve are merely a reflection of the civilian population. the services can provide help, create regulations, and do a lot to provide mental health, but nothing will stop suicide. that is why I struggle watching a lot of the sensationalism that is presented on UM (as it regards to military service).

as for Justin I do not know what if anything could have been done to prevent him from disappearing. I can only speculate and I do think that he committed suicide.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that the military could be doing more to help it's people. The sensationalism you talk about is what makes these particular cases entertaining to the average Joe. Why people see them as murder, conspiracy and cover-up rather than the reality of suicide.

I just want to go back to something at the start of this topic.. Yep, recalling an almost 20 year old post..

The part about the "DoD" search.

Look.. That could have been anything, up to and including someone at Ft Shafter in Hawaii just reading about the case and searching his name. Might have been someone who was in school with him out in Korea and was trying to find him.. Lord only knows.

While I'm with many of you thinking suicide.. Again.. Let's not discount his age and the fact that things like schizophrenia manifest around his age. And, that COULD fit here. Perhaps his 'crazy stories' weren't ENTIRELY fiction.. They were true in his head? The seeming obsession with the briefcase might also fit in with that theory?

Sometimes true crime fans go too far down the rabbit hole. This talk about the DoD and this random website is bonkers and the point you're trying to make is lost on me. Something conjured up in the mind of someone who's unwell or lost in fantasy doesn't make them reality and the end result for Justin remains the same. A theory of mental illness doesn't provide any leads or make the case more compelling.

Sometimes true crime fans go too far down the rabbit hole. This talk about the DoD and this random website is bonkers and the point you're trying to make is lost on me. Something conjured up in the mind of someone who's unwell or lost in fantasy doesn't make them reality and the end result for Justin remains the same. A theory of mental illness doesn't provide any leads or make the case more compelling.

It's not lost on you. You even point out WHY it's important to understand it in another post..

Rewatching this segment - knowing what you do about the mother - definitely paints this segment in a different light

You're reaching big time. My comment about a missing girl and the mother's involvement which wasn't disclosed in UM's segment is facts and evidence. Not an unsubstantiated theory of mental illness. I'm simply trying to tell you this notion doesn't advance the case or present things in a new light. I'm not saying it isn't possible.

I just watched this segment again. He could have easily put a friend up to it, but I now wonder if the "mission's off" phonecall to his gf wasn't Justin himself.

That's a very good point. Or since he was out without his gf, he could have said to a friend "here's $50 to call my girl and just tell her the mission is off." Friend might have shrugged and just done it. Although I would have thought if that was the case, the friend would have come forward and admitted the call was a hoax. It very easily could have been Justin himself though it makes me wonder how Yolanda wouldn't know Justin's voice well enough to recognize it.

I have to ask something. Why do you guys believe anyone who posts here that they know or knew Bullwinkle, that they are his relatives or whatever? Is it because they said it? That makes it true? You have no evidence and these alleged friends and relatives made 1 to 5 posts and disappeared. How about this? I am Justin Bullwinkle. Now believe me. Secret squirrel indeed.

Why do you believe anything the girlfriend or the mother say when you have no verification and you don't know why they are saying it? The mother did something really weird in the beginning, besides not being all that sad that her son disappeared, sounding more like she was speaking of a restaurant in the neighborhood rather than her "missing" son. She says, "I don't know if he ran away from the army." and then pauses for a couple of seconds then looked up and to the left before wondering if he was kidnapped ending with a weird smirk. This was some seriously odd behavior. My gut says he ran away from the army. From what I know about narcissists is one thing they do when they want to admit something without admitting it is they preface what they say with "I don't know" with the rest of it.

She and her son are narcissists and you usually get that when the narcissist is a male, there was a narcissistic mother there.

What I get from all this is that Justin was making everything up to impress his girlfriend. We don't know their relationship. She might have told him he was a loser or whatever and he made everything up to impress her to hide he was a failure. He was not smart as so many "friends" and "relatives" here have claimed. What he did was give the illusion he was smart by talking a lot of crap. Once you learn this type of person properly, you can spot it in seconds. Look at most politicians. They have their schtick set up when they are asked an unexpected question, or one that makes them have to go deeper than their schtick allows, they run away, accuse the other person of racism or sexism, whatever and then run away (fake it until you make it). I see it in his eyes in the pictures. He is a narcissist. Narcissists basically have the mind of a 5-year-old in an adult body. They talk a lot of crap and when the time comes to pay for the meal, they run away. He reminds me of so many people who talk crap saying they want to be parents, but have zero desire for the responsibility of being a parent. They just want to say they are parents for the attention and virtue. The dude was a freaking cook. He probably couldn't make a killer dessert let alone be a killing militant. Maybe he should have told his girlfriend he was a militant chef.

People. He set up his escape. He allegedly told the broad that if his dog tags are found without him it means he's dead. He did not commit suicide. He likely went to the middle of the country or left the US and assumed a new name. His mother I feel knew, while helping him and I feel she and the girlfriend did not like each other. The girlfriend was taking her son's attention away from her. He likely realized he could not prove the stories he made up to her and hated being in the army because it was not as fun as he thought it would be, so he ran away. What a child does when they get into trouble.