is it true??

Relatively speaking, IMO, yes. "Relatively" because Frasier was still a good show and very watchable....just not as good.

Originally posted by Chambers
Relatively speaking, IMO, yes. "Relatively" because Frasier was still a good show and very watchable....just not as good.

took the words right out of my mouth.
well, with better grammar added.

Maybe I'm weird but I liked the fact that they got together. The tension that was between them was good but I always found myself screaming, " Oh, just kiss her for crying out loud!!!!!" If you liked the sexual tension between them then you probobly wanted to see them together and that's what the writers gave us. Well, that's how I feel anyway.


As for the show jumping because "Niles' heart hurts", I don't think it did then either. Frasier, as a whole, was a very smart and sophisticated show, and I think they did a great job with that episode. One thing I hate about sitcoms is the fact that they are about real life, but some of them don't even border on reality. Not EVERYTHING in reality is funny. Like every other episode, I walked away from that one thinking about life, half crying and half smiling. If anything it made the show more human.

God I hope that makes sense...

Not at all! Frasier never ever never ever ever never jumped the shark!!!

It really bugs me when someone says "Frasier jumped the shark when so-and-so totally changed".

Of course you don't want characters to lose all their original traits, but you can't have a sitcom running for over a decade without them evolving a little. After all, that makes it more realistic. Take Niles and Daphne (probably the two most criticised characters for "changing" in the later seasons). They were so different to each other to begin with that it's only natural that they would both become a little more like each other once they were in a long term relationship, and then marriage. Niles basically grew up a bit and lost some of his stuffiness (not all, thankfully - especially around his brother), while Daphne integrated herself a little into his lifestyle, again, not completely losing her own eccentricities.

Some of the changes could perhaps have gone better (I still can't come to terms with the idea of Niles caring for a pigeon or taking a liking to fast food!) but I still welcome them. It's nice to see real growth in character in such a fantastic sitcom. Plus, it makes it all the more rewarding when their original personality traits peep through. ;)

Hmm I dont think Niles & Daphne did it single handedly. I found Frasier becoming a bit unlikeable, especially in seasonsn 8 - 10 when nearly every line he shouted instead of spoke. The writers made him waaay too grumpy:crazy:

Still after 230+ episodes its gonna start to get stale, our dreadfull British sitcoms only get about 30 episodes tops and theyre supposedly called "classics" such as Fawlty Towers.:rolleyes: What a load of crap that is!;)

True about British sitcoms - but I like them anyway (well, some of them).

By the way - I LOVE YOUR AVATAR.

And look, barwars - it's Bulldog!!

Originally posted by Chambers
True about British sitcoms - but I like them anyway (well, some of them).

By the way - I LOVE YOUR AVATAR.

And look, barwars - it's Bulldog!!

Great avatar is right, and YES!! Bulldog!! I cant believe they used that pic for the Season 3 box and cut out Bulldog!!

Originally posted by peter may
Hmm I dont think Niles & Daphne did it single handedly. I found Frasier becoming a bit unlikeable, especially in seasonsn 8 - 10 when nearly every line he shouted instead of spoke. The writers made him waaay too grumpy:crazy:

Still after 230+ episodes its gonna start to get stale, our dreadfull British sitcoms only get about 30 episodes tops and theyre supposedly called "classics" such as Fawlty Towers.:rolleyes: What a load of crap that is!;)

Oh, I agree about Frasier, as you can see on the "Is Frasier (the character) becoming unlikeable?" thread. Seasons 8 to 10, absolutely. Unlike Niles and Daphne, he didn't really have an excuse to become that way either. He just suddenly started shouting. What had once been the cute rivalry between him and Niles became painful to watch as he acted like a spoiled brat. "Room Full of Heroes" (The Season 9 ep with the Halloween party where Niles dresses up as Martin) is probably the absolute low for Frasier's attitude, and as a result is perhaps my least favourite episode. To boot, in the end Niles was made to look bad and we were supposed to side with Frasier.

I found that impossible, just as I did in the car lot one from Season 10. Luckily, it wasn't in every episode. I'm currently rewatching Season 10 (as it's being repeated on Ch4) and I think he's okay towards the end of it. Or maybe it just depended who was writing each episode! Actually, in most of them Kelsey Grammer was just fine - it's really a case of a few spoiling the batch. Therefore, I don't really count it as a change in the character in the same way as with Niles and Daphne. At least, whatever it was, he seemed to be over it by Season 11!

Still after 230+ episodes its gonna start to get stale, our dreadfull British sitcoms only get about 30 episodes tops and theyre supposedly called "classics" such as Fawlty Towers.:rolleyes: What a load of crap that is!;) [/B]

Fawlty Towers really was a classic! ;)

Personally I think 12 episodes were too few, but it's a different matter when there's only one writer or a duo writing them all.

Our current sitcoms, however, are all utter garbage from what I've seen. 'My Family' is the only show written "American Style" by a team, but I've never liked that one much either. I also don't like a lot of the current British sketch comedy. I'm afraid I've gone American since the mid-nineties as far as comedy is concerned. I know they must have a lot of their own rubbish too, but at least we usually receive the good ones over here.

Nice to see a fellow Brit on here ;)

Yeah a good one to look out for over here is Whoopi, I think that may be airing soon:)

Haha, I've been here on and off for a while.

Remember when Channel 4 shamelessly removed Frasier from it's trademark timeslot at the start of last year? I started a thread complaining about it here and I'm fairly certain you responded. ;)

Originally posted by Frasierfan1983
Fawlty Towers really was a classic! ;)

Personally I think 12 episodes were too few, but it's a different matter when there's only one writer or a duo writing them all.

Our current sitcoms, however, are all utter garbage from what I've seen. 'My Family' is the only show written "American Style" by a team, but I've never liked that one much either. I also don't like a lot of the current British sketch comedy. I'm afraid I've gone American since the mid-nineties as far as comedy is concerned. I know they must have a lot of their own rubbish too, but at least we usually receive the good ones over here.

1. I also love Fawlty Towers.
2. I hate "American Style" Bitish sitcoms. They feel so cheap.
3. I agree about British TV importing the cream of the crop of American sitcoms. Lucky for me that I was introduced to my favorite US sitcoms while I was growing up in the UK. Of course, there were a lot of classics I didn't get to see: shows like Sanford and Son, All in the Family, etc.

Originally posted by peter may
Nice to see a fellow Brit on here ;)

Yeah a good one to look out for over here is Whoopi, I think that may be airing soon:)

I really liked that show. Certainly not the best show ever, but one of the best out of the crap that's been airing lately. They shouldn't have cancelled it.

Originally posted by Chambers
Of course, there were a lot of classics I didn't get to see: shows like Sanford and Son, All in the Family, etc.

Have you ever seen Steptoe and Son or 'Till Death Do Us Part?? (The original UK versions)

Or how about the British Three's Company, Man About The House?

Originally posted by Chambers
Relatively speaking, IMO, yes. "Relatively" because Frasier was still a good show and very watchable....just not as good.

Exactly, I was hoping someone would note this.

"Jumping The Shark" doesnt mean a show goes bad, it just goes past its peak.

Originally posted by barwars
Have you ever seen Steptoe and Son or 'Till Death Do Us Part?? (The original UK versions)

Or how about the British Three's Company, Man About The House?

WHOA! I had no idea Steptoe and Son and 'Till Death Do Us Part had anything to do with those shows (which I have yet to see). I have watched a few episodes of each in the UK - but that was back when I was too young to get the point. I also heard Cosby was supposed to be based on One Foot in the Grave - even though they have very little in common.

I've never seen Man About the House, but I have seen the UK version of Who's the Boss? and a horrific version of Married...With Children.

Originally posted by Chambers
WHOA! I had no idea Steptoe and Son and 'Till Death Do Us Part had anything to do with those shows (which I have yet to see). I have watched a few episodes of each in the UK - but that was back when I was too young to get the point. I also heard Cosby was supposed to be based on One Foot in the Grave - even though they have very little in common.

I've never seen Man About the House, but I have seen the UK version of Who's the Boss? and a horrific version of Married...With Children.

haha
Married.... With Children was such an "American" show, Id be scared to see a UK version.

That would be like a UK version of M*A*S*H.


Cosby based on something else? I never knew that. I don't think it would work without Bill Cosby.... much like TCS.

Originally posted by barwars
haha
Married.... With Children was such an "American" show, Id be scared to see a UK version.

That would be like a UK version of M*A*S*H.


Cosby based on something else? I never knew that. I don't think it would work without Bill Cosby.... much like TCS.

I know - watching that UK version were the most frightening minutes of my life.

Cosby was only losely based on One Foot in the Grave. As you said, Bill made the US version unique.

Originally posted by Chambers
[B]1. I also love Fawlty Towers.


I'm almost certain that the farce-based episodes of Frasier were partly inspired by FT. In fact, David Hyde Pierce has credited John Cleese as an inspiration for some of his physical comedy acting.

Originally posted by Frasierfan1983
I'm almost certain that the farce-based episodes of Frasier were partly inspired by FT. In fact, David Hyde Pierce has credited John Cleese as an inspiration for some of his physical comedy acting.


That makes a lot of sense. I've always thought DHP had a rather old-fasioned physical comedy style (another reason Niles is my favorite character). You don't see them like that anymore.

Originally posted by Frasierfan1983
Haha, I've been here on and off for a while.

Remember when Channel 4 shamelessly removed Frasier from it's trademark timeslot at the start of last year? I started a thread complaining about it here and I'm fairly certain you responded. ;)

ah yes, when Frasier was removed from friday nights to Monday nights and then this year bumped to latenight Wednesday. Yes it hasnt had a fair ride with ch4 has it?