Why doesn't Charmed have the impact Buffy or Xena have had?

[TMC]

Xena and Buffy are still considered the best television shows with female leads but why is Charmed sort of forgotten outside the internet?

Did the "Shannen Doherty vs. Everyone" drama ruin its impact? Or did it being a poor-man's Buffy stop that?

[Christopher]

Shannen Doherty tried very hard to make Charmed a serious show like Buffy but was over ruled by Brad Kern. She had nothing to do with why Charmed isn't a great series. What killed Charmed's quality was Brad taking over the series from Constance Burge. Brad made Charmed into a fluffy female sex object show. It was no longer based on the sisters after he became in charge. It was about displaying the female leads body's more, mainly Alyssa Milano, to draw in horny viewers. Look at the stupidest stories from Charmed over the years after Shannen and Constance were no longer part of the show. There was Phoebe riding a horse naked downtown, Phoebe in a genie outfit, Phoebe in a mermaid outfit, the superhero costume episode where the females are in tight outfits, and so much more where it always involved getting the female leads showing off more of their bodies. Seasons 1 and 2 of Charmed will always be a classic though. Constance started the show off great and I'm glad for what she was able to create those two seasons.

I can't speak for Xena, but with Buffy that show was always about the storylines. It had actual character development, realistic stories that fans could relate to, the strong mother / daughter relationship that young female viewers needed to see, strong friendships, writers and creator that cared what was being produced, and the most important aspect is the creator knowing how he wanted his show to go so there were "easter egg" hints seasons before a story occurred. Buffy will always be superior than Charmed because of how much thought was put into the seasons before they were created.

[TMC]

One comment that I read online is that Charmed was presumably (especially with Aaron Spelling involved) supposed to be like Charlie's Angels but with a supernatural twist. But after Shannen Doherty left/was fired the show devolved into being Harry Potter meets Sabrina the Teenage Witch.

To put it in another way, when Shannen was there, Charmed was for the most part, a show about three sisters living in an alternate real world and navigating a combination of normal, real-life, real-women problems. The powers and stories showcased were often only there to highlight the issues going on between the sisters. But when Rose McGowan replaced Shannen come Season 4, Charmed started to treat their adult cast more like teen girls in a silly fantasy-based show, not specifically a witch/Wicca-based show.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by Christopher

Shannen Doherty tried very hard to make Charmed a serious show like Buffy but was over ruled by Brad Kern. She had nothing to do with why Charmed isn't a great series. What killed Charmed's quality was Brad taking over the series from Constance Burge. Brad made Charmed into a fluffy female sex object show. It was no longer based on the sisters after he became in charge. It was about displaying the female leads body's more, mainly Alyssa Milano, to draw in horny viewers. Look at the stupidest stories from Charmed over the years after Shannen and Constance were no longer part of the show. There was Phoebe riding a horse naked downtown, Phoebe in a genie outfit, Phoebe in a mermaid outfit, the superhero costume episode where the females are in tight outfits, and so much more where it always involved getting the female leads showing off more of their bodies. Seasons 1 and 2 of Charmed will always be a classic though. Constance started the show off great and I'm glad for what she was able to create those two seasons.

I can't speak for Xena, but with Buffy that show was always about the storylines. It had actual character development, realistic stories that fans could relate to, the strong mother / daughter relationship that young female viewers needed to see, strong friendships, writers and creator that cared what was being produced, and the most important aspect is the creator knowing how he wanted his show to go so there were "easter egg" hints seasons before a story occurred. Buffy will always be superior than Charmed because of how much thought was put into the seasons before they were created.

And incidentally, Brad Kern would later be accused of sexual harassment!

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by TMC

And incidentally, Brad Kern would later be accused of sexual harassment!

I'm not surprise. It's too bad this didn't come out before he ruined Charmed.

[TMC]

I've been reading elsewhere that Shannen Doherty's issues stemmed from her being led under the impression that Charmed was supposed to be a crime drama with supernatural elements. In essence, Charlie's Angels with witchcraft. It was conceived by Aaron Spelling to be essentially a vehicle for Shannen (I suppose using the Charlie's Angels analogy, Shannen was the Kate Jackson of Charmed). Shannen brought in Holly Marie Combs, who was a friend of hers. At that point, Holly was still a relatively new actress with small credits, having been a supporting cast member on Picket Fences.

When Alyssa Milano came in at the last minute to replace Lori Rom, the actress who played Phoebe in the initial pilot, that's when everything got thrown off. You see, up until that point, Shannen's input was asked in the earlier stages of development, including the casting process for her sisters. But then, Shannen's lead status slowly changed according to the viewership that tuned in see Alyssa and her "goods".

So naturally, the show was retooled (as I said before, what started out as a supernatural crime drama became a campy soap opera) to give Alyssa the love story and other plots to keep male viewership. Shannen felt that her suggestions and requests for storylines and direction were minimized because Alyssa "popped" and production took advantage of her sex symbol status.

Shannen depending of who you ask or want to believe, felt that her time on the series was at an end, and requested to be let go from her contract by the end of the third season. She did feel the show wasn't as good as it could have been. The writers apparently hated Shannen because she was always butting her nose in and making them do re-writes, essentially guiding how the episodes should go. It wasn't until after she left that they realized she knew what she was talking about and that she was right.

After Shannen left, Alyssa and Holly were at odds over what they should do. Alyssa felt the show was fair at giving storylines and wanted to keep the trajectory of the viewership. Holly meanwhile, felt obligated and a sense of friendship with Shannen. She wanted to ban together to work towards a mutual ground with production. Because of this tension, there were some hard feelings around, mostly between Holly and Alyssa.

Alyssa's contract of course, had been renegotiated as well as Holly's and that is why the two stayed longer.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by Christopher

Shannen Doherty tried very hard to make Charmed a serious show like Buffy but was over ruled by Brad Kern. She had nothing to do with why Charmed isn't a great series. What killed Charmed's quality was Brad taking over the series from Constance Burge. Brad made Charmed into a fluffy female sex object show. It was no longer based on the sisters after he became in charge. It was about displaying the female leads body's more, mainly Alyssa Milano, to draw in horny viewers. Look at the stupidest stories from Charmed over the years after Shannen and Constance were no longer part of the show. There was Phoebe riding a horse naked downtown, Phoebe in a genie outfit, Phoebe in a mermaid outfit, the superhero costume episode where the females are in tight outfits, and so much more where it always involved getting the female leads showing off more of their bodies. Seasons 1 and 2 of Charmed will always be a classic though. Constance started the show off great and I'm glad for what she was able to create those two seasons.

I can't speak for Xena, but with Buffy that show was always about the storylines. It had actual character development, realistic stories that fans could relate to, the strong mother / daughter relationship that young female viewers needed to see, strong friendships, writers and creator that cared what was being produced, and the most important aspect is the creator knowing how he wanted his show to go so there were "easter egg" hints seasons before a story occurred. Buffy will always be superior than Charmed because of how much thought was put into the seasons before they were created.

Is there any truth to the rumors that Alyssa Milano was the main cause of not only Shannen Doherty's departure but Constance Burge's? I also heard that Alyssa required a bigger budget for clothes so production cut back on special effects.

Constance Burge actually quit the show over her creative differences with Brad Kern. He then went on to feud with Shannen Doherty (who also wanted to focus on the sisterhood and more mature storylines) and orchestrated her exit with Milano's support (Doherty attempted to quit, was denied by Spelling, then discovered she was fired upon returning from vacation). There is a reason Charmed became such a chauvinistic sleaze fest from season four onwards!

[TMC]

Originally Posted by Christopher

Shannen Doherty tried very hard to make Charmed a serious show like Buffy but was over ruled by Brad Kern. She had nothing to do with why Charmed isn't a great series. What killed Charmed's quality was Brad taking over the series from Constance Burge. Brad made Charmed into a fluffy female sex object show. It was no longer based on the sisters after he became in charge. It was about displaying the female leads body's more, mainly Alyssa Milano, to draw in horny viewers. Look at the stupidest stories from Charmed over the years after Shannen and Constance were no longer part of the show. There was Phoebe riding a horse naked downtown, Phoebe in a genie outfit, Phoebe in a mermaid outfit, the superhero costume episode where the females are in tight outfits, and so much more where it always involved getting the female leads showing off more of their bodies. Seasons 1 and 2 of Charmed will always be a classic though. Constance started the show off great and I'm glad for what she was able to create those two seasons.

I can't speak for Xena, but with Buffy that show was always about the storylines. It had actual character development, realistic stories that fans could relate to, the strong mother / daughter relationship that young female viewers needed to see, strong friendships, writers and creator that cared what was being produced, and the most important aspect is the creator knowing how he wanted his show to go so there were "easter egg" hints seasons before a story occurred. Buffy will always be superior than Charmed because of how much thought was put into the seasons before they were created.

Somebody on the Charmed Cafe message boards perfectly summed up the differences between Buffy and Charmed under Brad Kern:

Didn't it feel that way with Buffy. I don't recall Buffy riding naked on a horse in public for breast-feeding protest. Or turning into a mermaid with two pieces of cloth on her breasts. Or a spellbackfire making Buffy's breasts grow triple in size or Buffy searching for a sperm donor like a maniac after having a vision of her future daughter.

[Christopher]

Didn't it feel that way with Buffy. I don't recall Buffy riding naked on a horse in public for breast-feeding protest. Or turning into a mermaid with two pieces of cloth on her breasts. Or a spellbackfire making Buffy's breasts grow triple in size or Buffy searching for a sperm donor like a maniac after having a vision of her future daughter.

No way. Charmed did an episode on finding a sperm donor? Seriously? I think I vaguely remember a promo about one of the women having big breasts from a spell gone wrong. Buffy never did episodes like this. They were more into realistic stories as the show went on with supernatural elements. They were a serious show whereas Charmed obviously was about looks and trashy women since these are stories the show did. It's very hypocritical of Rose and Alyssa to be faces of the Me Too movement where they supported women being trashy sex objects on screen. I can't stand either two since their cries of how women are objectified by men since they were fine doing Charmed. Since they have nothing to lose, they feel they can bitch all they want apparently

[RetroGuy2000]

Buffy had literary references, and won Hugo Awards.

I stopped watching Charmed in Season 5. The quality had slipped. I do believe Constance Burge's departure caused the show to go into a tailspin. I enjoyed the darker, more serious tone of the earlier seasons. Once the show had turned into plots about big boobs and leprechauns, I was out of there.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Buffy had literary references, and won Hugo Awards.

I stopped watching Charmed in Season 5. The quality had slipped. I do believe Constance Burge's departure caused the show to go into a tailspin. I enjoyed the darker, more serious tone of the earlier seasons. Once the show had turned into plots about big boobs and leprechauns, I was out of there.

They had leprechauns? I remember fans on IMDb during the shows' run complain about the Harry Potter school. I know I watched the first episode of season 4 and the following one because of Piper's breakdown being well acted by Holly's part, but I stopped following after that. I wasn't a fan of Rose's acting or the character she was playing. I also didn't understand why they're still the Charmed ones since the legend says 3 sisters, not 4 or 3 sisters out of a group of multiple sisters. They ruined the shows premise on who the Halliwell sisters were for the supernatural aspect in the show. Maybe that's why they stopped doing supernatural stories and instead did stories of their sex lives like finding a sperm donor because of a vision of their kid I still can't believe that is an actual episode. I think I bailed out on the right time too. The promos never looked like a supernatural show after Shannen was fired. They were always so campy and focusing on the women's looks from what I remember. That's why I never tuned back in after I stopped.

Season 1 of Charmed will always be my favorite. I like the Prue / Andy relationship, the monster of the week stories, and the dynamic of sisters trying to get along while adjust to becoming witches. The first season was perfect. Season 2 is good and season 3 is alright, but nothing tops how that first season was made.

[RetroGuy2000]

Originally Posted by Christopher

They had leprechauns?

Leprechauns, fairies, genies, unicorns... There were actually eight episodes of Charmed with Leprechauns, according to Google. No I am not joking.

I remember fans on IMDb during the shows' run complain about the Harry Potter school.

I stopped watching long before they introduced the witches' school that Television Without Pity called Not!Warts, but according to that site, they basically just ripped off Harry Potter.

I know I watched the first episode of season 4 and the following one because of Piper's breakdown being well acted by Holly's part, but I stopped following after that. I wasn't a fan of Rose's acting or the character she was playing. I also didn't understand why they're still the Charmed ones since the legend says 3 sisters, not 4 or 3 sisters out of a group of multiple sisters. They ruined the shows premise on who the Halliwell sisters were for the supernatural aspect in the show. Maybe that's why they stopped doing supernatural stories and instead did stories of their sex lives like finding a sperm donor because of a vision of their kid I still can't believe that is an actual episode. I think I bailed out on the right time too. The promos never looked like a supernatural show after Shannen was fired. They were always so campy and focusing on the women's looks from what I remember. That's why I never tuned back in after I stopped.

What you are saying sounds so familiar. I was a huge fan of the show, so I gave them a little leeway, but by the middle of Season 5, the show had become a trainwreck. I wasn't a fan of Rose, her acting wasn't terrific... but there was also something awry with the scripts themselves.

The show became campy, as you said; I liked the darker tone of earlier seasons. At one point, Phoebe got an awful bowl/pageboy haircut. The storylines became repetitive. I just couldn't watch anymore.

Season 1 of Charmed will always be my favorite. I like the Prue / Andy relationship, the monster of the week stories, and the dynamic of sisters trying to get along while adjust to becoming witches. The first season was perfect. Season 2 is good and season 3 is alright, but nothing tops how that first season was made.

It's the same for me. That first season was, pun intended, magical. The next two held up well, too. But it went downhill when Prue was killed off.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

Buffy had literary references, and won Hugo Awards.

I stopped watching Charmed in Season 5. The quality had slipped. I do believe Constance Burge's departure caused the show to go into a tailspin. I enjoyed the darker, more serious tone of the earlier seasons. Once the show had turned into plots about big boobs and leprechauns, I was out of there.

Speaking of Buffy, was there any grey area with the demons to the sisters on Charmed? It seemed like all demons on Charmed (unlike on Buffy with Clem or Lorne) were bad. What I mean is that it was as if there couldn't be a demon that was good. It was stressed many times that the only thing that kept Cole from completely being dangerous was his human side.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by RetroGuy2000

At one point, Phoebe got an awful bowl/pageboy haircut.

Alyssa got a Molly / Tootie haircut? I'm not surprise. Alyssa was probably getting tired of being the show's sex object and was trying to make herself look awful for viewers.

[Christopher]

Originally Posted by TMC

Speaking of Buffy, was there any grey area with the demons to the sisters on Charmed? It seemed like all demons on Charmed (unlike on Buffy with Clem or Lorne) were bad. What I mean is that it was as if there couldn't be a demon that was good. It was stressed many times that the only thing that kept Cole from completely being dangerous was his human side.

This was something I liked about Buffy and Supernatural. Not all demons are created bad in those shows. They turn bad by the decisions they make. They were made to be similar to humans. We all have choices and it's the one we make that defines who we are. Buffy and Supernatural stayed close to the detail of their story with the seriousness of the supernatural aspect while Charmed was more for children in the Paige years.