Angela Hammond - Girl abducted from phone booth

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by Jon

Cars86, Looking at the map - did he really walk all the way to the payphones from his stalled car to call police? I find that very odd. Why not knock on people's doors in that situation?

He was picked up by a passing motorist. He probably headed back towards town and was eventually picked up and dropped off at the police station. From the Kansas City Star:

The fiance and a former boyfriend of a missing Clinton, Mo., woman were given lie-detector tests Wednesday, but investigators refused to comment on the results. The two teenagers said they were questioned about whether they were involved in the disappearance of 20-year-old Angela M. Hammond, who apparently was abducted a week ago from a Clinton supermarket parking lot. "I guess they were just trying to clear us as suspects," said Bill Barker, the 17-year-old former boyfriend of Hammond, in a telephone interview. "They were asking why we would do something like this to her." Hammond's fiance, Rob Shafer, said FBI agents administering the tests implied that he and Barker might have been involved. "They don't think my story's very good," Shafer, 18, said by phone. "I told them everything I know." Clinton police Detective Damon Parsons, who is heading the investigation, and FBI spokesman Max Geiman declined to discuss the polygraph tests. Both men said investigators continued to follow up on leads but had not made any substantial progress Wednesday. Parsons said that while "everyone is a suspect," Shafer and Barker were questioned as "primary witnesses." Barker said he was questioned for about three hours Wednesday afternoon; Shafer said he spent about five hours with FBI agents. "I think they're barking up the wrong tree here," Shafer said. "They need to focus on who really did this and not on people who didn't. " Hammond, who is four months pregnant, disappeared last Thursday from a parking lot telephone booth at a Clinton supermarket. Shafer has said he and Hammond were talking about a suspicious man nearby when he heard her scream and the phone line went dead. Shafer said he jumped in his truck and was rushing toward the parking lot, a few blocks from his home, when he heard Hammond yell his name from a passing pickup. Shafer said he tried to follow the truck but could not catch it before his truck's transmission gave out. Parsons said Shafer was given a ride to the police station and arrived about midnight. Hammond was last seen by friends about 11:15 p.m. Thursday. She apparently stopped at the phone booth because she did not have a telephone. Shafer and Barker said they have been out looking for Hammond every day since she disappeared. "We haven't found anything yet," said Barker, who has continued his friendship with Hammond since they stopped dating late last year. "In a way that could be good. We just don't know." Hammond was described as 5 feet tall, 140 pounds, with light brown hair and brown eyes. She was last seen wearing a white shirt with black spots, black slacks and tennis shoes. The truck was described as a green, late 1960s model Ford with a water or fish scene in the back window.

Her friend last saw her at 11:15 p.m. that night. Rob was on the phone with her for approximately 30 minutes. He chased the truck for about 1.5 miles before his car stalled. He arrived at the police station "about midnight". That gives him, and being generous on time here, at most, 20-25 minutes to kill her, hide her body to where it's never been found, stall his car, and then be picked up by the first motorist that saw him to take him to the police station to report what happened. And he did all of this without anyone witnessing his movements. That's not possible. Please stop with the Rob did it nonsense. But let's go a step further. Let's assume that Rob gets pissed at Angela for blowing him off that night and they get into a fight. She could not have called him any earlier than 11:15 p.m, since this is the time given by her friend as the last time she saw Angela. Rob was a "few blocks away" at the time. He would've had to have driven to the store which would've taken more time. Angela, despite just getting into a fight with Rob over the phone, decided to stay at the phone booth for reasons unknown (her abandoned car was found in the lot near the booth) instead of simply driving her car to their trailer. Rob confronts her, kills her, hides her body, stalls his truck, and then makes it back to the police station by midnight. YEAH, that didn't happen.

Which brings up another great point: Angela had her vehicle. Why not drive home if she did indeed have an argument with Rob? Would she really wait there in the middle of the night for an angry Rob to confront her at the phone booth? Unless of course our super villain Rob flagged her down, killed her, and then dumped her car back at the lot (remember, he needed to match his "story"), then dumps her body into a different dimension (scientists do say there are several unknown to us humans), before heading back out and then stalling his car and then making it back to the police station in the span of 20-25 minutes with his magical and mischievous super powers.

This thread is old and many posters have posted in it throughout the years. And I think I speak for the majority of the posters when I say that every year or so we get another one of the "wait his story doesn't add up" people, and every time we roll our eyes. We've been down this road before and it's been debunked thoroughly. If you want to ignore logic and facts, be my guest.

[TheCars1986]

Here's how the "Rob did it theory" would have to play out:

Angela calls Rob at 11:15 or shortly thereafter. They argue, she says she's headed home. He leaves his parents house and heads to their trailer where he kills her. He then dumps her body, and heads back to the trailer to clean up and concoct a cover story. Then he takes her car and abandons it at the phone booth. Then he walks back to the trailer to get his car and then drives it almost 2 miles away from the phone booth and messes up his transmission intentionally. Then he starts walking back towards town before being picked up and dropped off at the police station where he gives a vehicle description as well as a description of a "abductor" and the details about the chase he gave. He would've had to have done all of this in the span of 30-40 minutes (and that's assuming that their "argument" was a brief one). Yeah, that makes sense. I think he did it now.

[Jon]

I have never believed Rob Shafer was involved.

I thought it was odd that he would walk all the way to the payphone - but as that article pointed out, he didn't.

[Hambone2421]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Here's how the "Rob did it theory" would have to play out:

Angela calls Rob at 11:15 or shortly thereafter. They argue, she says she's headed home. He leaves his parents house and heads to their trailer where he kills her. He then dumps her body, and heads back to the trailer to clean up and concoct a cover story. Then he takes her car and abandons it at the phone booth. Then he walks back to the trailer to get his car and then drives it almost 2 miles away from the phone booth and messes up his transmission intentionally. Then he starts walking back towards town before being picked up and dropped off at the police station where he gives a vehicle description as well as a description of a "abductor" and the details about the chase he gave. He would've had to have done all of this in the span of 30-40 minutes (and that's assuming that their "argument" was a brief one). Yeah, that makes sense. I think he did it now.

Not to mention he would have had to successfully conceal her body in a close proximity to where he lives for almost 30 years now.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Which brings up another great point: Angela had her vehicle. Why not drive home if she did indeed have an argument with Rob? Would she really wait there in the middle of the night for an angry Rob to confront her at the phone booth? Unless of course our super villain Rob flagged her down, killed her, and then dumped her car back at the lot (remember, he needed to match his "story"), then dumps her body into a different dimension (scientists do say there are several unknown to us humans), before heading back out and then stalling his car and then making it back to the police station in the span of 20-25 minutes with his magical and mischievous super powers.

Right, Angela had her vehicle, so why stand at a payphone for that long wasting money talking to Rob late at night, when she could've easily drove to his parent's house and said she was heading home? Why stand at a payphone when you see a truck constantly circling around and not head for your vehicle after he passes around the second time?

I love how everyone thinks it's "out of reach" for Angela to have waited for Rob after they talked one the phone. For all we know, she could've said something happened to her that night, and he ran up there to see what was wrong and a fight broke out. To be honest, him doing it is very simple, but I guess if you want to believe he's innocent you'll keep making things up.

You believe in this guy, but not his story. Rob said he drove to the area immediately, not walked. The police, and Rob said he had 45 minutes, now to you it's 25. Rob's story was after she screamed he jumped in his vehicle, and heading TOWARDS the payphone he saw the truck. Maybe you should stop reading junk articles.

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

This thread is old and many posters have posted in it throughout the years. And I think I speak for the majority of the posters when I say that every year or so we get another one of the "wait his story doesn't add up" people, and every time we roll our eyes. We've been down this road before and it's been debunked thoroughly. If you want to ignore logic and facts, be my guest.

No, my friend, no one's ignoring logic, and facts, you're just chopping, and screwing his story as you see fit. Whenever a "Rob supporter" logic gets put in place, there's always some "new article" that says something different.

Rob said he was driving to the payphone area when he encountered "the truck", so when exactly did he walk to the payphone area if he drove there immediately?

I roll at my eyes at his fanboy club. It's one thing to believe that he's innocent, it's another to keep changing up his story to fit your verdict. I have not changed, or deviated from his story. I said multiple times, according to ROB'S, and the POLICE story how he could've done it. And it's not debunking anything if you keep changing his story around.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Here's how the "Rob did it theory" would have to play out:

Angela calls Rob at 11:15 or shortly thereafter. They argue, she says she's headed home. He leaves his parents house and heads to their trailer where he kills her. He then dumps her body, and heads back to the trailer to clean up and concoct a cover story. Then he takes her car and abandons it at the phone booth. Then he walks back to the trailer to get his car and then drives it almost 2 miles away from the phone booth and messes up his transmission intentionally. Then he starts walking back towards town before being picked up and dropped off at the police station where he gives a vehicle description as well as a description of a "abductor" and the details about the chase he gave. He would've had to have done all of this in the span of 30-40 minutes (and that's assuming that their "argument" was a brief one). Yeah, that makes sense. I think he did it now.

Her vehicle was found near the payphone, so your "chopped and screwed" logic is already shot. I told you that you keep making stuff up.

Her vehicle was found in the parking lot near the payphone. So this whole "went back to their trailer" business is junk. Rob drove there as HE SAID he did. She gets in his vehicle (remember her car WAS FOUND IN THE PARKING LOT NEAR THE PAYPHONE, NOT THE TRAILER). Either they drive elsewhere, and talk outside where a fight happens, and he disposes her body. Or an altercation happens inside of the vehicle, and he drives to another location immediately (woods, lake or swamp, remember folks, he was already in a rural area. 5 minutes or less he'd likely be in a swamp or lake area) to dispose of her body immediately. Heading down the road is where his truck breaks down.

See, the thing is, I think Rob was heading down the road FROM the payphone area, and broke when he was about to turn going down the street. He wasn't driving TO the payphone area, and reversed, he was driving FROM it.

You see? When you stick to the ACTUAL story, it makes sense. When you begin to make things up, you start to lose your story.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by freakbook

Right, Angela had her vehicle, so why stand at a payphone for that long wasting money talking to Rob late at night, when she could've easily drove to his parent's house and said she was heading home? Why stand at a payphone when you see a truck constantly circling around and not head for your vehicle after he passes around the second time?

You are aware that this was 1991 in rural Missouri, right?

Originally Posted by freakbook

I love how everyone thinks it's "out of reach" for Angela to have waited for Rob after they talked one the phone. For all we know, she could've said something happened to her that night, and he ran up there to see what was wrong and a fight broke out. To be honest, him doing it is very simple, but I guess if you want to believe he's innocent you'll keep making things up.

What have I made up?

Originally Posted by freakbook

You believe in this guy, but not his story. Rob said he drove to the area immediately, not walked. The police, and Rob said he had 45 minutes, now to you it's 25. Rob's story was after she screamed he jumped in his vehicle, and heading TOWARDS the payphone he saw the truck. Maybe you should stop reading junk articles.

How does Rob have 45 minutes if he spent 30 talking to Angela? That gives him 15 minutes. I gave the 20-25 minute timeline being generous to your ridiculous theory, that Rob could've been off on his estimate about how long he talked to her. His brother & phone records would've confirmed all of this. Since he was cleared after a week of investigation by the FBI, I think these things checked out.

Originally Posted by freakbook

No, my friend, no one's ignoring logic, and facts, you're just chopping, and screwing his story as you see fit. Whenever a "Rob supporter" logic gets put in place, there's always some "new article" that says something different.

This "new" article (written in 1991) can be found on page 4 or 5 in this thread. Which I highly suggest you go back and read from page 1.

Originally Posted by freakbook

Rob said he was driving to the payphone area when he encountered "the truck", so when exactly did he walk to the payphone area if he drove there immediately?

Who said he walked to the payphone?

Originally Posted by freakbook

I roll at my eyes at his fanboy club. It's one thing to believe that he's innocent, it's another to keep changing up his story to fit your verdict. I have not changed, or deviated from his story. I said multiple times, according to ROB'S, and the POLICE story how he could've done it. And it's not debunking anything if you keep changing his story around.

Who is changing his story? Believe me, his "fanboy club" (and there are a lot of us) roll our eyes constantly at your argumentative and condescending posts. There's a certain spot in the road that just wishes you would stick to your own advice here:

Originally Posted by freakbook

If anyone with a real argument want to get down then PM me. I'm tired of typing the same thing over and over, to the same people. In terms of this thread though, it's over.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by freakbook

Her vehicle was found near the payphone, so your "chopped and screwed" logic is already shot. I told you that you keep making stuff up.

Her vehicle was found in the parking lot near the payphone. So this whole "went back to their trailer" business is junk. Rob drove there as HE SAID he did. She gets in his vehicle (remember her car WAS FOUND IN THE PARKING LOT NEAR THE PAYPHONE, NOT THE TRAILER). Either they drive elsewhere, and talk outside where a fight happens, and he disposes her body. Or an altercation happens inside of the vehicle, and he drives to another location immediately (woods, lake or swamp) to dispose of her body immediately. Heading down the road is where his truck breaks down.

See, the thing is, I think Rob was heading down the road FROM the payphone area, and broke when he was about to turn going down the street. He wasn't driving TO the payphone area, and reversed, he was driving FROM it.

You see? When you stick to the ACTUAL story, it makes sense. When you begin to make things up, you start to lose your story.

Rob was heading away from the payphone, do you read? He was headed south, as shown on the map, when his car broke down. And you are aware that him doing things "immediately" still requires time?

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

You are aware that this was 1991 in rural Missouri, right?

And? In 1991, she still had a car, and in 1991, his parents house was still 3 blocks away. Your point?

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

How does Rob have 45 minutes if he spent 30 talking to Angela? That gives him 15 minutes. I gave the 20-25 minute timeline being generous to your ridiculous theory, that Rob could've been off on his estimate about how long he talked to her. His brother & phone records would've confirmed all of this. Since he was cleared after a week of investigation by the FBI, I think these things checked out.

Hold up, young man. Let's talk about the bolded. The phone record show that a call was recorded for 30 minutes. They could've talked for 10 minutes, when Rob "ran out the door, and left the phone off the hook". If the phone in Rob's parents house was left off the hook, then that's time that could've been recorded while he was gone. Remember it just shows that there was a connection between the phones for 30 minutes, not anyone talking. They could've talked for 5 minutes before he stormed out, and his brother put the phone back on the hook 25 minutes later. So to be honest, Rob could;ve had more than 45 minutes.

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Who is changing his story? Believe me, his "fanboy club" (and there are a lot of us) roll our eyes constantly at your argumentative and condescending posts. There's a certain spot in the road that just wishes you would stick to your own advice here:

You are. When did this walking to the payphone, and trailer business show up? You're rolling your eyes because I've blown his story to bits, and ya'll are scrambling around trying to regather your eggs. You keep trying to change details, and bits about his story.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Rob was heading away from the payphone, do you read? He was headed south, as shown on the map, when his car broke down. And you are aware that him doing things "immediately" still requires time?

I'm getting flashbacks to your logic in the Tim McClure thread. You've given me PTSD. Congrats.

What's your point? I was referring to your "if Rob did it" logic.

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Originally Posted by freakbook
If anyone with a real argument want to get down then PM me. I'm tired of typing the same thing over and over, to the same people. In terms of this thread though, it's over.

Yeah, sorry man. I guess I can't stay away. I hate when people liter, so I guess I just have a knack for picking up trash whenever I see it. Sorry

[LooksLikeCRicci]

Originally Posted by freakbook

They could've talked for 10 minutes, when Rob "ran out the door, and left the phone off the hook". If the phone in Rob's parents house was left off the hook, then that's time that could've been recorded while he was gone. Remember it just shows that there was a connection between the phones for 30 minutes, not anyone talking. They could've talked for 5 minutes before he stormed out, and his brother put the phone back on the hook 25 minutes later. So to be honest, Rob could;ve had more than 45 minutes.

This is the problem I have with your entire theory. It's not based on any of the investigations that were completed by multiple agencies. It's all on "what-ifs" and things that "could've" happened. It's for these reasons I tell you a prosecution against Rob would be laughed out of the courtroom. If he were to be charged, the prosecutor's job is to prove his guilt. Rob, under the Constitution of the United States, does not have to do a thing to prove his innocence. A prosecution based on "what-if" and "he could've done this" is very different than proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Also, you keep mentioning this "motive" of Rob's. That Angela was pregnant? Okay. Who's to say that Rob wasn't excited to have a child with Angela? I have seen no proof of discord in their relationship. I have seen nothing which would indicate that Rob was anything but a stand-up guy. You start to show me conclusive facts and proof of a motive and I may start listening to you.

I also have to comment that for someone who is constantly saying "he's done" with this thread, you sure keep jumping back in over and over again...

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

This is the problem I have with your entire theory. It's not based on any of the investigations that were completed by multiple agencies. It's all on "what-ifs" and things that "could've" happened.

So is his story, sweetheart. No truck, nor Angela was ever sighted after she wad kidnapped by a reliable source. Him, the truck, or her was never seen. Her being kidnapped was never witnessed, nor was the chase. So all we have are "what-ifs" and "things that could've happened". She could've been kidnapped, but it was never witnessed by anyone of than her boyfriend. So I guess we're stuck in a stalemate, huh?

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

Also, you keep mentioning this "motive" of Rob's. That Angela was pregnant? Okay. Who's to say that Rob wasn't excited to have a child with Angela? I have seen no proof of discord in their relationship. I have seen nothing which would indicate that Rob was anything but a stand-up guy. You start to show me conclusive facts and proof of a motive and I may start listening to you.

You seen their relationship in a 10-minute segment on Unsolved Mysteries? You knew this couple personally? You saw that Rob was a stand-up guy, because Rob said he was a stand-up guy in his story. No one else saw Rob be a stand-up guy. My motive being, is that she was possibly pregnant by her ex-boyfriend. Did that make Rob happy? I'm sure it did. Being 18, and possibly about to raise another guys baby? I'm sure that's better than waking up with Folger's in your cup. And let's not forget that the ex-boyfriend was also a suspect. Was Rob happy that her, and the ex we're probably still keep contact and having a baby? He he.

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

I also have to comment that for someone who is constantly saying "he's done" with this thread, you sure keep jumping back in over and over again...

I do. I can't help myself. I hate people leaving trash on the ground, so I have to pick it up. My biggest weakness, is my kindness.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

Originally Posted by freakbook

So is his story, sweetheart. No truck, nor Angela was ever sighted after she wad kidnapped by a reliable source. Him, the truck, or her was never seen. Her being kidnapped was never witnessed, nor was the chase. So all we have are "what-ifs" and "things that could've happened". She could've been kidnapped, but it was never witnessed by anyone of than her boyfriend. So I guess we're stuck in a stalemate, huh?

So, those witnesses that have all corroborated Rob's story, just what? Made it up?

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

This is the problem I have with your entire theory. It's not based on any of the investigations that were completed by multiple agencies. It's all on "what-ifs" and things that "could've" happened. It's for these reasons I tell you a prosecution against Rob would be laughed out of the courtroom. If he were to be charged, the prosecutor's job is to prove his guilt. Rob, under the Constitution of the United States, does not have to do a thing to prove his innocence. A prosecution based on "what-if" and "he could've done this" is very different than proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

Originally Posted by freakbook
They could've talked for 10 minutes, when Rob "ran out the door, and left the phone off the hook". If the phone in Rob's parents house was left off the hook, then that's time that could've been recorded while he was gone. Remember it just shows that there was a connection between the phones for 30 minutes, not anyone talking. They could've talked for 5 minutes before he stormed out, and his brother put the phone back on the hook 25 minutes later. So to be honest, Rob could;ve had more than 45 minutes.

You see my point being with COULD'VE is that there's no transcript. It just shows that they talked. So, let's do this. How about you show me evidence that would be admissible into court regarding this phone conversation, that said they talked about what they actually talked about? Not just Rob's word, but hard evidence. No "he said..." I want to see the conversation. The actual transcript. When you show this, then I'll throw my "COULD'VE theory" into the trashcan.

I'll be waiting. Thanks, Mrs. Attorney.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

Originally Posted by freakbook

You seen their relationship in a 10-minute segment on Unsolved Mysteries? You knew this couple personally? You saw that Rob was a stand-up guy, because Rob said he was a stand-up guy in his story. No one else saw Rob be a stand-up guy. My motive being, is that she was possibly pregnant by her ex-boyfriend. Did that make Rob happy? I'm sure it did. Being 18, and possibly about to raise another guys baby? I'm sure that's better than waking up with Folger's in your cup. And let's not forget that the ex-boyfriend was also a suspect. Was Rob happy that her, and the ex we're probably still keep contact and having a baby? He he.

I'm sorry, am I missing something? Do you know them personally and can offer substantive proof and facts that Rob was not a nice guy?

I didn't think so.