Angela Hammond - Girl abducted from phone booth

[Drakken]

Originally Posted by hostedbyrobertstack

I looked up the real Rob again and his posts are interesting to say the least...a lot of posts that could be "demeaning" towards women. Maybe not as young and innocent as he came off in the segment.

It's been twenty years now, Rob is older and has lived his life, and has had his share of bad and traumatizing experiences. And it is irrelevant to his guilt in Angela's case.

[James T]

Originally Posted by Drakken

When facing kidnappings, the standard SOP for law enforcement is 72 hours. If the victim is not found alive within that time, the odds of survival significantly decreases close to zero. The timeframe is even shorter when it is without ransom and male-on-female.

The way she was kidnapped made it very unlikely she would have been kept alive for a number of weeks, even days, by her kidnapper. Her family just accepted the reality that she would never be found alive. It is not the only time we see this in UM - family members of Colleen Reed and Deborah Poe expressed the same kind of realism on-air, in their own words, that they did not expect either to have survived their kidnap.

I wonder if he didn't even get the chance to sexually assault her, according to if you believe it Rob's account there was just the one abductor & she was likely struggling with him. It would be highly difficult for the guy to be able to drive & fight her off at the same time, if he was armed he might have just shot her & dumped her somewhere later.

[James T]

Originally Posted by hostedbyrobertstack

I looked up the real Rob again and his posts are interesting to say the least...a lot of posts that could be "demeaning" towards women. Maybe not as young and innocent as he came off in the segment.

He works on construction sites, the banter on those sites is usually pretty lewd. He is married with daughters so doubt he is really some heavy level misogynist.

[Drakken]

Originally Posted by James T

I wonder if he didn't even get the chance to sexually assault her, according to if you believe it Rob's account there was just the one abductor & she was likely struggling with him. It would be highly difficult for the guy to be able to drive & fight her off at the same time, if he was armed he might have just shot her & dumped her somewhere later.

Or just knocked her out with a blow to her head after escaping Rob, and had her way with her later at his chosen location. Kinda like Ted Bundy.

[James T]

Originally Posted by Drakken

As for Rob being guilty - he was both the last person to see her alive AND her boyfriend. He was automatically the first suspect, and he was cleared both by local, state-level, and even the FBI.

Is it 100% sure Rob didn't do it? By this point, I believe it is. His story was consistent, everything was checking out, and eyewitnesses corroborated his story. Even his in-laws never uttered a single word against Rob that was he responsible for Angela's murder. The only reason why is still a suspect in the eyes of some people is that both Angela, her killer, and the vehicle have literally vanished into thin air without a single trace after she was kidnapped.

There are still things that I do find odd, but not enough to shake my certitudes yet:

- A truck with a fish decal in circulation, even at the time, would have stuck out like an eyesore. And yet, no one has ever reported such a truck after Angela was abducted. No such truck was reported gutted by a fire, nor brought to a chop shop, no repair or a fish decal window removed from a vehicle, nothing. It is as is the van never existed.

- Angela's description of her would-be assailant, as told by Rob, is just too detailed on the spot. Part of it might be adrenaline and hyper-alertness, but remember when we were young and lying? We would put so much information and details into our lies, that it was obvious that we were being dishonest. Not that I am saying that Rob is lying, but it was still... odd to listen to.

I think it is probable that this guy was a total amateur first time offender & likely didn't mean to kill her, his impatience meant that he abducted her while she was still on the phone which would be extremely rare for a murderer/rapist to do-meaning police could be alerted & if she is on the phone to somebody nearby like here that person could come after him. Seeing Rob coming after him likely put the wind up him & he panicked, killed her & disposed of the body & then removed the only real identifiable info about the vehicle being the decal, possibly sprayed the vehicle a different colour & probably ended up going to jail for other sex crimes, or possibly a murder.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by Drakken

As for Rob being guilty - he was both the last person to see her alive AND her boyfriend. He was automatically the first suspect, and he was cleared both by local, state-level, and even the FBI.

Him being cleared means nothing without evidence. If all they cleared him with was a polygraph test, and not finding the body then I'm not impressed. Multiple guilty people have been cleared, only to be charged later.

Originally Posted by Drakken

Is it 100% sure Rob didn't do it? By this point, I believe it is. His story was consistent, everything was checking out, and eyewitnesses corroborated his story. Even his in-laws never uttered a single word against Rob that was he responsible for Angela's murder. The only reason why is still a suspect in the eyes of some people is that both Angela, her killer, and the vehicle have literally vanished into thin air without a single trace after she was kidnapped.

His story was fabricated, and made up. All to convenient for him. She gave the exact description of the man and vehicle, and this man happened to head south, instead of north into more rural land, and Rob just so happened to drive past, and she had enough wiggle room to scream his name so he could give chase? Nah. Not buying it. Yeah, two "eye witnesses" claimed to have seen the truck. These could be friends of Rob having their friends back, or the man could've existed, and Rob could've used him in his fake story to appear as the culprit. Angela's family could've just didn't want to believe that Rob didn't do it. Hell, maybe they didn't think he was capable of it, but he killed her by accident. Maybe they didn't know him as well as they thought.

Originally Posted by Drakken

- Angela's description of her would-be assailant, as told by Rob, is just too detailed on the spot. Part of it might be adrenaline and hyper-alertness, but remember when we were young and lying? We would put so much information and details into our lies, that it was obvious that we were being dishonest. Not that I am saying that Rob is lying, but it was still... odd to listen to.

Exactly. This is my point, it's all to detailed and convenient. It's convenient enough to get a full description of the vehicle, and perp to give to the police to find, but convenient enough to where he disappears. If you think about it, the perps description is convenient as well. Beard, glasses, dirty, overalls, not enough to give a distinguished description such as jewelry, scar, tattoo, etc. but enough to give police to look for your average Missouri farmer.

Also convenient that as soon as she gave the description she was snatched up, and he passed them on the street. His story is way to embellished and detailed. It's detailed enough to be believable, but too unbelievable with the magic abductor that really no one else witnessed.

His story is believable, because it actually happened. Making up a story about your girlfriend calling you from a payphone is weird. It happened, but the magical fish decal didn't. Rob did. He left after they argued on the phone.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by Drakken

His story was consistent, everything was checking out, his car had indeed had a broken transmission at the time of the event, and both eyewitnesses and his kid brother corroborated his story.

Actually, let me take back his story being fabricated and made up. His story was real. Broken transmission, eye witnesses, and even the kid brother. All true. Except for one detail, the abduction by a stranger.

I think his story went as told. She dropped him off, he babysat his brother and then they talked on the phone. This is where the truth comes in. They have an argument about something, and he leaves in a rage to confront her (brother corroborated the phone incident, and the police records show the record length of the call, all true). He goes to the payphone location, and an altercation between them happens. he disposes of the body (maybe reversing on some rough terrain next to where he dumped her body), and he speeds out of the area. As he's speeding through downtown his transmission gives out, and his car stops.

This is his true story. Take out Rob, and add a strange man in overalls on the phone who kidnapped his girlfriend, and his car gave out right as they turned, and now you now have a fake story.

Like I said, when Rob got off of the phone, and went to meet Angela at the payphone who's to say that they didn't see a wacky man in a pickup truck when they we're arguing? Maybe they both seen a bearded man, and a green truck when they were there fighting and that's where Rob added the "fake abductor" to the story. He could've just been some lost farm hand, who Rob seen when he was ALSO at the payphone area.

[Drakken]

Originally Posted by freakbook

Him being cleared means nothing without evidence. If all they cleared him with was a polygraph test, and not finding the body then I'm not impressed. Multiple guilty people have been cleared, only to be charged later.

But they did not just make a polygraph test, and the FBI was implicated in the investigation because of a possible crossing of state lines in the committing of a violent crime. There is not a shred of evidence making Rob a likely suspect, other than this BBQ story and some rumored, unproven motive. Every physical evidence reported tells that his story, unlikely as it is, is genuine:

Eyewitnesses did report a high-speed chase down Main street between a car with a fish decal AND Rob's car the night of the kidnapping.

His brother did report he was babysitting him at the time, and Rob ran out after being on the phone with Angela.

His car was investigated by law enforcement and did have a broken transmission.

Police did check how the events unfolded and did conclude Rob had not enough time and not the means to commit the murder, hide the body, and call the police according to that timeline.

Hell, even if, by coincidence, maybe the rumor that she was pregnant from another man was true, does that make it automatically impossible that she was kidnapped, raped, and murdered by a stranger attacker? Does it make it automatic that Rob would kill her?

At the end of the day, there was nothing against Rob at the time and there still is nothing now. He is not even considered a person of interest, which is lingo for "you may have done it but we cannot consider you a suspect now for legal reasons". In 99% of people's mind, Rob is innocent and did his very best to try to save her life.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by Drakken

But they did not just make a polygraph test, and the FBI was implicated in the investigation because of a possible crossing of state lines in the committing of a violent crime. There is not a shred of evidence making Rob a likely suspect, other than this BBQ story and some rumored, unproven motive. Every physical evidence reported tells that his story, unlikely as it is, is genuine:

There's nothing physical that says he isn't guilty either. Outside of people's words, and her lack of body. he isn't really innocent. Just lucky. Like I said, Rob is innocent, when that dirty fish man is identified and charged. He never was. To me this guy could be his imaginary friend, until he or Angela show up.

Originally Posted by Drakken

Eyewitnesses did report a high-speed chase down Main street between a car with a fish decal AND Rob's car the night of the kidnapping.

This is my first time hearing about this. I read that two eyewitnesses saw the truck at the payphone, not anyone seeing the chase. Sources, and links please, this is new information to me.

Originally Posted by Drakken

His brother did report he was babysitting him at the time, and Rob ran out after being on the phone with Angela.

His car was investigated by law enforcement and did have a broken transmission.

I love how people have selective reading on this forum. I've said these parts of his story were true multiple times, but the decal man wasn't.

Originally Posted by Drakken

Police did check how the events unfolded and did conclude Rob had not enough time and not the means to commit the murder, hide the body, and call the police according to that timeline.Hell, even if, by coincidence, maybe the rumor that she was pregnant from another man was true, does that make it automatically impossible that she was kidnapped, raped, and murdered by a stranger attacker? Does it make it automatic that Rob would kill her?

Selective reading again. Rob had more than enough time to do this. As I've already said, and explained. Rob didn't have to drive 30 minutes to get to her, 2-3 tops. If Rob knew where to dump her body, then that's ample time to throw her somewhere, or throw her in a lake, and rush down the downtown street where his transmission gave out and then call the police. We don't know the motive of why she was killed. Maybe it was about the pregnancy, maybe she called Rob that night and said she was with another guy and that caused them get into a fight. Maybe she broke the news that the baby wasn't his that night and he killed her in a heat of the moment situation, rather than it being planned. Hell,maybe she said she didn't want to hang out that night because she wanted to hang with another guy and that pissed him off. He was 18, I'm sure he wasn't emotionally mature.

Originally Posted by Drakken

At the end of the day, there was nothing against Rob at the time and there still is nothing now. He is not even considered a person of interest, which is lingo for "you may have done it but we cannot consider you a suspect now for legal reasons". In 99% of people's mind, Rob is innocent and did his very best to try to save her life.

There's alot against Rob. No one else have seen her being kidnapped, or her with him. It's all Rob's word. There may be nothing physical, but that doesn't mean he isn't lying. Yeah, Rob tried so hard to save her life that his car gave out right at the perfect moment. Poor Rob. You oh so lucky/unlucky child.

[Drakken]

That is a lot of maybes built on straws.

Maybe Rob was a Superman mastermind of crime and was able to pull the perfect crime possible in the middle of Clinton, MO, at the age of 18?

Or maybe, maybe, Rob is just innocent here, and facts corroborate the story?

At the end of the day, we do not know. What we know is that it's been now 25 years and no one and nothing has surfaced that has reignited law enforcement's interest in making Rob a suspect.

What sold me that Rob was innocent is that witnesses reported the exact same car, the exact same guy there before Rob raced to save Angela:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...nd_angela.html

Shafer immediately drove to the phone booth. On the way there, he passed a late 1960s or early 1970s model green Ford F-150 pickup truck and heard Hammond scream his name. Shafer followed the vehicle for about a mile on 2nd Street and Culvert Drive, but his own car's transmission failed and he had to stop driving. Shafer stated the truck he saw had a decal of water or an outdoor scene completely covering the rear window, possibly a white top, and possible damage to its left front fender. Witnesses reported seeing a Caucasian male driving a similar truck near the telephone booth at time Hammond disappeared. The man, who has never been identified, was wearing coveralls and a dark-colored baseball cap. He had eyeglasses, a beard and a mustache. A composite sketch of the suspect is posted below this case summary.

I mean, what are the odds? This is not Susan Smith making up a black abductor here. The guy and the car were seen and corroborated by third parties. They did not report a couple quarreling, they did not report Rob forcing Angela into his car. They reported the same car and the same suspect snooping around her phone cab that Rob (and witnesses) reported chasing down until his car died - again, still inside Clinton. That means also paperwork of the car being towed, police called, etc, which still leads to even more credence to his side of the story.

It is really reaching it far when argued that the witnesses might be friends of Rob covering for him murdering his fiancée pregnant with a 4 months-old fetus, which is capital murder in Missouri. By this argument, any witness that does not accuse Rob of murder is a friend and an accomplice of Rob here.

Presumption of innocence is at play here. By all reasonable analysis of what we have so far, nothing indicates Rob is hiding something. He might be, yeah, but we have nothing except not believing his story. Some small details are odd, but that does not make it necessarily not true - like the decal, for example.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by Drakken

I mean, what are the odds? This is not Susan Smith making up a black abductor here. The guy and the car were seen and corroborated by third parties. They did not report a couple quarreling, they did not report Rob forcing Angela into his car. They reported the same car and the same suspect snooping around her phone cab that Rob (and witnesses) reported chasing down until his car died - again, still inside Clinton. That means also paperwork of the car being towed, police called, etc, which still leads to even more credence to his side of the story.

I'm done. It's clear you're going to ignore absolute everything that I say and keep rehashing the same thing over and over again, to hold on to your belief of this make believe story. So be it. A lot of people are blind, and deaf in this thread. I'm still waiting for the source, and links that witnesses saw Rob chasing the man down the street though. Please deliver.

Why would they report a couple fighting if they drove elsewhere in Rob's car? Maybe Rob got there after the "witnesses" saw the truck. And why would Rob have to force Angela in the car? They we're engaged, couldn't she have just gotten in without incident?

Originally Posted by Drakken

It is really reaching it far when argued that the witnesses might be friends of Rob covering for him murdering his fiancée pregnant with a 4 months-old fetus, which is capital murder in Missouri. By this argument, any witness that does not accuse Rob of murder is a friend and an accomplice of Rob here.

You're reaching way more than me buddy. People cover for crimes all of the time, how is this reaching? We don't know Rob's friends, or how they were. Maybe they didn't like her, or believed he killed her by accident. It's only reaching to you because you can't prove me otherwise. Like I said before OVER AND OVER, that maybe they didn't know he committed the murder, but he told his friends that he was innocent and they said the witness testimonies to just have his back. Some friends/family will have someone's back guilty or not. It's not reaching to say the eye witnesses we're false, when his whole story is circumstantial and convenient. Ask Paul Pollis parents. They were ride or die, until a certain point.

Originally Posted by Drakken

Presumption of innocence is at play here. By all reasonable analysis of what we have so far, nothing indicates Rob is hiding something. He might be, yeah, but we have nothing except not believing his story. Some small details are odd, but that does not make it necessarily not true - like the decal, for example.

We just have to agree to disagree. You think he's innocent, I believe he's guilty. I'm not changing my stance until new information comes to light. I respect your opinion, and I can understand why people think he's innocent, but I just disagree.

Originally Posted by Drakken

They reported the same car and the same suspect snooping around her phone cab that Rob (and witnesses) reported chasing down until his car died - again, still inside Clinton.

This is BS. I never read any source of anyone witnessing the chase in progress. Even if they did witness it, then why didn't they intervene and help? Also, if more people seen a suspicious truck roaming about in a small town that they weren't familiar with, then no one stopped to get a license plate number? This proves what I said about the eyewitnesses being BS. I'm not buying 3 people not attempting to get his license plate number after noticing how bizarre he was. People in small towns know each other. If witnesses said they didn't recognize the weird trucker, then I'm not buying no one attempting to ask him questions if he was lost or needed help, or atleast getting his plate number.

EDIT: This isn't to you Drakken, but to everyone who says that Rob "couldn't have hid her" or "he's a complete genius to have gotten away with it" is false. It takes nothing to throw her into a river or creek. It was said that 250 volunteers searched the woods, and used helicopters. Nothing was said about water.

[Hasho]

Originally Posted by freakbook

Yeah, my mistake. I couldn't find another account, just his, I thought the look was off. I apologize, but that doesn't mean that he still didn't know that area like the back of his hand. If he grew up there, then I'm sure he knew the area well enough from playing in it.

Edit: Lmao, yeah. I found the real Rob. He's older and grayer as he should be. My mistake. I don't have facebook, so I just clicked on the Twitter link. Whoopsie. He's still guilty despite my shoddy work though.

Yeah the construction guy is him. If you look at his friendlist he is friends with Angela's brother and even friends with her memory page. He is also active in discussions about her disappearance on her memory page.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by Hasho

Yeah the construction guy is him. If you look at his friendlist he is friends with Angela's brother and even friends with her memory page. He is also active in discussions about her disappearance on her memory page.

I'm sure he is. If I got away with murder, and the family believed I was innocent, then I'd keep up with appearances and play along too. You never know when that evidence is going to surface, and you're going to need that backside covered. He's playing it safe. I guess he was smart after all (with hiding her body and getting away with it at 18).

I just watched the segment again, and I like how rehearsed and scripted his facial features are when he mentions certain things like "she screamed" and his facial muscles start to flinch. Smart kid. Granted, hearing your girlfriend scream as you're killling her at 18 can trigger some serious PTSD.

[Hasho]

Originally Posted by freakbook

I'm sure he is. If I got away with murder, and the family believed I was innocent, then I'd keep up with appearances and play along too. You never know when that evidence is going to surface, and you're going to need that backside covered. He's playing it safe. I guess he was smart after all (with hiding her body and getting away with it at 18).

I just watched the segment again, and I like how rehearsed and scripted his facial features are when he mentions certain things like "she screamed" and his facial muscles start to flinch. Smart kid. Granted, hearing your girlfriend scream as you're killling her at 18 can trigger some serious PTSD.

I know what you mean, but can a 18 year old really pull off tricking law enforcement + FBI? When I was 18 I could barely lie to my parents

The story seems far fetched though that's for sure.

[freakbook]

Originally Posted by Hasho

I know what you mean, but can a 18 year old really pull off tricking law enforcement + FBI? When I was 18 I could barely lie to my parents

The story seems far fetched though that's for sure.

The thing is, did he even really trick them or get lucky? If he threw her in a lake/river or hid her elsewhere and moved her again later, and they didn't make him a suspect and search the area until a little later, then perhaps they just missed the body and he lucked up?

If you think about it, without a body then he could've said he saw Ronald McDonald kidnap her and they couldn't really disprove it, because there's NOTHING. No body, evidence, decal, truck, weird bearded guy, record phone conversation - nothing. He probably just smoked enough weed to be calm to pass his polygraph test. Then to, I wonder how close he was to the officers of that town?

People are looking at this case completely wrong. They're thinking for him to have gotten away with it then he must be some criminal mastermind, this is false. He just lucked up, or had help. People think Tim McClure is guilty, and there's nothing tying him to the crime other than a possible motive about an insurance policy, and a wonky alibi about his unclaimed time. What's the difference? Rob's story is unbelievable, and there's never been a sight of the decal beard guy or his truck OUTSIDE of that town (I mean a real, and tangible witness, not the fake ones like Canada that no one can prove). Strange, isn't it?

I just don't get why people think it's hard for him to hide a body in a desolate, farm area that he grew up in. The boy had a ton of empty nature to hide her in. He didn't live in a city, or somewhere else more populated. Lakes, woods, swamps, forest, etc etc we're all his stomping grounds. Plus he knew the area. People are stretching this way too much. He could've easily hid that body based on where they lived.