Dale Kerstetter

[everybodylovesrs]

Originally Posted by moneypenny10

[
@ moneypenny10: I'm bummed it took me until now to read your posts from a couple of years ago, shedding more light and responding to my questions. Thanks for that. If you don't mind, I would also like to know if there was any evidence that Dale assisted in removing the platinum. Was the "new" employee at the plant at the time Dale was supposed to check in with him?

There was never any evidence that would suggest he was anything other than an unwilling victim. The "new employee" that was monitoring the check in procedures was working at a remote location, at the Corning HQ, not in the same plant as Dad in Bradford.[/QUOTE]


You might want to post here if you'd still like to keep up the search, as it is a site dedicated to helping solve cold cases and find missing people:

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88645

You could continue to bump it until people would get involved.

[Mastermind]

Originally Posted by moneypenny10

There was never any evidence that would suggest he was anything other than an unwilling victim.

1. I'm not sure that the robber would need any assistance from Dale regardless of his loyalties. He seemed to not need help moving that cart. I'm sure he would have brought another person with him if he needed assistance. I doubt he would think that he could depend on Dale to willingly help him. Of cource, he wouldn;t need a partner if Dale was that very partner.

2. The robber needed dale for SOMETHING. He could easily have knocked Dale out or killed him long before he reached that far into the process. Dale had a vital piece of information that the

3. Apparently this robber didn;t need a gun to control Dale at this point. If he was hiding the gun, that would mean he was aware of the camera. Why would he even care whether the camera catches the gun is beyond me.

I'm beginning to think that it is highly unlikely that Dale was killed inside the plant. Especially if he was innocent. Why risk and waste time killing him and hiding the body? Why kill him in the first place? The killer was wearing a mask, so it's not like Dale could identify him? Dale would have known nothing of the details of the robbery? Why add murder unnecessarily to a burglary charge.

Of course if Dale was in on it, there is a lot Dale knew that may necessitate murdering him.

[marlins3]

I just thought of this scenario (and much of it would be far-reaching so stay with me). What if it was an inside job by another Corning employee. The plant seems to have had camera's only in the inside. Say a coworker of Kerstetter's shows up late at night off his shift (perhaps using the excuse he forgot something). kerstetter (eating his "lunch" in the early morning hours) sees the man and recognizes him as an employee. The man is not yet masked. When Kerstetter approaches him, he threatens Kerstetter with a gun (and being an employee himself, knows about the security camera and how to conceal the weapon from camera's view). The man then has Dale lead him to the Tank to get the platinum. Because the man knows that Dale could identify him, he kills Kerstetter. The employee need not flea with the platinum if he had a place to keep it for a while. Also, he would not arouse suspicions at work as he would return to work as every other employee would. To be sure, the plant was probably closed the following day due to the theft (the first employees reporting in the morning shift would have notified supervisors who surely would have contacted the police. The plant would then be closed for at least one day). As long as the employee had connections on the outside (perhaps other friends not connected to Corning who had a way to sell the platinum or whatever), he would not be a suspect. His tracks are covered because of the mask he put on and teh fact that Dale looks fairly calm in the camera. The employee would make his money off the platinum while still continuing his duties at Corning (again not acting suspcious in any way) with a nice load of cash in the bank that only he knows about (from the stolen platinum).


just a thought.......

[Mastermind]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just thought of this scenario (and much of it would be far-reaching so stay with me). What if it was an inside job by another Corning employee. The plant seems to have had camera's only in the inside. Say a coworker of Kerstetter's shows up late at night off his shift (perhaps using the excuse he forgot something). kerstetter (eating his "lunch" in the early morning hours) sees the man and recognizes him as an employee. The man is not yet masked. When Kerstetter approaches him, he threatens Kerstetter with a gun (and being an employee himself, knows about the security camera and how to conceal the weapon from camera's view). The man then has Dale lead him to the Tank to get the platinum. Because the man knows that Dale could identify him, he kills Kerstetter. The employee need not flea with the platinum if he had a place to keep it for a while. Also, he would not arouse suspicions at work as he would return to work as every other employee would. To be sure, the plant was probably closed the following day due to the theft (the first employees reporting in the morning shift would have notified supervisors who surely would have contacted the police. The plant would then be closed for at least one day). As long as the employee had connections on the outside (perhaps other friends not connected to Corning who had a way to sell the platinum or whatever), he would not be a suspect. His tracks are covered because of the mask he put on and teh fact that Dale looks fairly calm in the camera. The employee would make his money off the platinum while still continuing his duties at Corning (again not acting suspcious in any way) with a nice load of cash in the bank that only he knows about (from the stolen platinum).

Sounds good.

The only problem I have with the theory is as to why he felt he had to kill Dale outside the plant and why he needed to hide Dales body.

If Dale were killed inside the plant, I think they would have found blood or even the shots or bullet holes and shells would have been found.

[marlins3]

Originally Posted by Mastermind

Sounds good.

The only problem I have with the theory is as to why he felt he had to kill Dale outside the plant and why he needed to hide Dales body.

If Dale were killed inside the plant, I think they would have found blood or even the shots or bullet holes and shells would have been found.

He may have figured that as long as Dale didn't look panicked, he would get blamed for the whole thing. The other employee would get off free while authorities focused on dale (of course the weapon would have been concealed as well. Dale may hvae been ordered to act as though he was not in any danger and to act like he was showing the masked man where to go (i.e shoving a gun in his back and saying "now point towards the platinum" as they walked past the camera. Dale may have believed (or been told) he would not be harmed if he showed the man where to go. But once he realized Dale could possibly identify him (or planned all along to kill him), he decided to kill him. I think the tarp covered platinum and the body. Dale may have even been hit on the head with a pipe rinside the plant (rather than shot) in orde rto prevent blood from being found. The perpetrator knew that if blodd or body was left behind, then police would focus all efforts on a murder. This way, they have to look at the possibility that Dale stole the platinum.

[Mastermind]

He may have figured that as long as Dale didn't look panicked, he would get blamed for the whole thing. The other employee would get off free while authorities focused on dale (of course the weapon would have been concealed as well. Dale may hvae been ordered to act as though he was not in any danger and to act like he was showing the masked man where to go (i.e shoving a gun in his back and saying "now point towards the platinum" as they walked past the camera. Dale may have believed (or been told) he would not be harmed if he showed the man where to go. But once he realized Dale could possibly identify him (or planned all along to kill him), he decided to kill him. I think the tarp covered platinum and the body. Dale may have even been hit on the head with a pipe rinside the plant (rather than shot) in orde rto prevent blood from being found. The perpetrator knew that if blodd or body was left behind, then police would focus all efforts on a murder. This way, they have to look at the possibility that Dale stole the platinum.

Maybe.

The real kicker for me is the fact that Dale Kerstetter is missing. It's the unique aspect in this case and the biggest clue in this case IMHO. To much of Dale missing indicates that he was either
1. Killed to silence him for his total knowledge of his involvement in the robbery.
2. He went on the lam to escape prosecution

Not that things always happen normally...but in a normal robbery where Dale is not complicit should either be
1. found tied up, gagged or unconcious in the plant
2. found killed inside or close by to the plant.

None of those things happened. Dale simply disappeared which is the prime reason why this case is an Unsolved Mystery.

[Corky Kneivel]

Originally Posted by everybodylovesrs

There was never any evidence that would suggest he was anything other than an unwilling victim. .

Please excuse the vagueness of my question. I meant to ask if there was any evidence your father PHYSICALLY assisted the masked intruder in removing the platinum than night. For some reason I remember that being left unmentioned on the UM segment.

Originally Posted by everybodylovesrs

The "new employee" that was monitoring the check in procedures was working at a remote location, at the Corning HQ, not in the same plant as Dad in Bradford.

Why did you put new employee in quote? Did I mis-represent that employee? On a typical work night, your father was the sole attendant employee, is that correct?

[everybodylovesrs]

Originally Posted by Corky Kneivel

Please excuse the vagueness of my question. I meant to ask if there was any evidence your father PHYSICALLY assisted the masked intruder in removing the platinum than night. For some reason I remember that being left unmentioned on the UM segment.






Why did you put new employee in quote? Did I mis-represent that employee? On a typical work night, your father was the sole attendant employee, is that correct?

You're quoting the incorrect person; the person who posted was the daughter, and I was responding to them.

[Corky Kneivel]

ahhh...gotcha, thanks.

[sharonite]

http://www.epa.gov/reg3wcmd/ca/pa/pdf/pad046762258.pdf

This file offers some information about the plant where the incident took place. Just after the robbery/disappearance in 1987, Kerstetter's employer (Corning) sold the plant to another company, which folded its operations on the site in 2002.

Here's an aerial view of the plant:

http://www.bing.com/maps/#JnE9eXAuNT...Y1NjE5MTQwNg==

I feel with 99% certainty that Mr. Kerstetter was NOT involved in the robbery in any way. To me, the evidence clearly indicates that he was merely in the wrong place at the wrong time and was likely killed and his body disposed of immediately thereafter. If anything, his glance at the security camera was a silent plea for help.

There are other things that strike me as fishy. The fact that the plant was sold shortly after the robbery (likely, the sale process had already begun, as sales as big as this one tend to take several months to close), combined with the fact that the stolen platinum apparently never surfaced, makes me wonder if someone further up at Corning plotted the robbery for insurance purposes--perhaps an attempt to squeeze a little more cash out of a plant that was soon to be disposed of. If Dale's daughter is correct (and I have no reason to doubt her), the lapse in Dale's check-ins being igorned for several hours also seems to indicate that someone further up the food chain knew something was going on.

Overall, this was a great segment, though tragic. I ache for Dale's family and the closure that they have been denied for so many years.

[Mastermind]

I feel with 99% certainty that Mr. Kerstetter was NOT involved in the robbery in any way. To me, the evidence clearly indicates that he was merely in the wrong place at the wrong time and was likely killed and his body disposed of immediately thereafter. If anything, his glance at the security camera was a silent plea for help.

Why only 99%?

Whats doubts consist of the lowly 1% that's holding you back from exonerating him completely?

What evidence do you speak of that exonerates him?? We seem to be missing the most important evidence in this case-namely Dale Kerstetter himself?

You do realize for all the theorizing we have done, everything could change with Dale Kerstetter being found alive in Mexico someplace or his remains being found nearby of the plant? I don;t see how you can 99% sure of any theory considering the fact that Dale is still missing to this day.

While I believe that Dale was involved in the robbery I'm only 60% sure of that theory and I realize that could change with Dales body being found in a quarry somewhere.

Overall, this was a great segment, though tragic. I ache for Dale's family and the closure that they have been denied for so many years.

We all hope for many things, but sometimes the answers we get are not the ones that we want. The family must prepare themselves and admit to the possibility that the answer they receive...might not be the one that they want to hear.

[Mastermind]

I should point out that this case is far easier to solve if you follow it from the angle that Dale Kerstetter is alive and was implicit in the robbery.

I do wonder if the family is choosing the most difficult investigative path simply because it puts their father in the best light. I'm not trying to be cruel or cold here but I think at some point the emotion needs to be separated from the investigative logic here.

[sharonite]

Originally Posted by Mastermind

Why only 99%?

Whats doubts consist of the lowly 1% that's holding you back from exonerating him completely?

What evidence do you speak of that exonerates him?? We seem to be missing the most important evidence in this case-namely Dale Kerstetter himself?

You do realize for all the theorizing we have done, everything could change with Dale Kerstetter being found alive in Mexico someplace or his remains being found nearby of the plant? I don;t see how you can 99% sure of any theory considering the fact that Dale is still missing to this day.

While I believe that Dale was involved in the robbery I'm only 60% sure of that theory and I realize that could change with Dales body being found in a quarry somewhere.



We all hope for many things, but sometimes the answers we get are not the ones that we want. The family must prepare themselves and admit to the possibility that the answer they receive...might not be the one that they want to hear.

I said "99%" because of the old never-say-never rule--I simply don't feel myself qualified in any way to issue a definitive judgment. Maybe "evidence" isn't the right word, at least not in the judicial sense. To me, it's mainly the things that don't add up: his cigarettes being left behind (I know people who wouldn't even make a 5-minute trip to the corner store without their cigarettes), the fact that he never attempted to make contact with the family he loved, his failure to check in each hour going ignored until it was too late, etc.

And, regarding closure...although I've never been in a situation where a loved one was missing, I think (given a choice) I would choose to know what truly happened.

[Mastermind]

And, regarding closure...although I've never been in a situation where a loved one was missing, I think (given a choice) I would choose to know what truly happened.

This is an interesting moral dilemma that I hope nobody ever has to go through.

To me, it's mainly the things that don't add up: his cigarettes being left behind (I know people who wouldn't even make a 5-minute trip to the corner store without their cigarettes), the fact that he never attempted to make contact with the family he loved, his failure to check in each hour going ignored until it was too late, etc.

1. Who says he didn't leave his cigarettes by mistake when he was going to lam it? He could always bum one of his "buddy" in the mask? I also wonder if there were smoking restrictions at the plant. Does Dale have to smoke outside? We also don;t know how many packs he had or if Dale had another pack in his locker or one in his pocket. You also have to keep in mind that if Dale is going to lam it, he needs to make sure his disappearance looks like he just vanished. Any preparations done by Dale would signal his family and others that something was out of the ordinary..especially since he has to take part in a robbery which requires clandestine behavior from that point on.

2. Everything you mentioned just means that he didn't plan to lam it...that doesn;t mean he wasn't an accomplice to the crime, conspirators didn't kill him afterwards. Dale may have had every intention of returning home and claim he was kidnapped and forced to commit the robbery.

the fact that he never attempted to make contact with the family he loved, his failure to check in each hour going ignored until it was too late, etc.

I really don;t see how you look at that as evidence against him being a conspirator.

If Dale was planning on committing a crime and laming it afterwards..I think he pretty much adhered to the fact that he's going to have to cease all contact with his family. If your a bank robber your not going to say goodnight to your daughter while your just about to committ the robbery. If he's going to hide from the law, Dale's smart enough to know that he can;t have any contact with his family for risk that law enforcement will use them to find him.

[moneypenny10]

Originally Posted by Corky Kneivel

Please excuse the vagueness of my question. I meant to ask if there was any evidence your father PHYSICALLY assisted the masked intruder in removing the platinum than night. For some reason I remember that being left unmentioned on the UM segment.



There was no evidence, whatsoever, to suggest that Dale was involved in this situation other than an unwilling victim of circumstance.


Why did you put new employee in quote? Did I mis-represent that employee? On a typical work night, your father was the sole attendant employee, is that correct?

Corning told me that the reason Dale's lack of hourly check-ins wasn't responded to immediately was that the person in HQ responsible for the hourly monitoring was a new employee that wasn't fully versed on the proper procedure, hence, the reason his first missed check-in and subsequent hourly ones thereafter were not reported to the local police to follow up on.