Angela Hammond - Girl abducted from phone booth

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by Sundance

Nobody said random murders never happen, if they did say that, please point it out...Of course they happen...However, almost all murders are from one party known to the other...We can all name serial killers and random murders, but these are much the exception, we all know that (or we haven't done our homework, watched the news, or bother to pay any attention to anything else except the UM show)...I have gone back and looked at the thread in the beginning. We should all read what Kane had to say just a few years ago...Interesting...Going from one side of the fence to the other, and now resorting to name calling when people want to discuss the case...It's quite a regression...

That is right, Someone's opinion can change as more information becomes available. See unlike you, I dont form an opinion and then ignore anything that might counter it. I keep an open mind and actually listen to people that might have more understanding of a case then I do. Your the one not doing your homework. Your way of thinking is what causes innocent people to go to jail. Reminds me of when one of BTK's victims husband was almost charged with murder because ofcourse random killing is so rare and the story so far fetched.
Angela's abduction is much like other random abductions. Infact its alot like the abduction of Trudy Darby, Cheryl Kinney, Lisa Marie Kimmel, Springfield three etc etc. This is why the story is not so far fetched. What is far fetched is the idea that Rob and Angie where at a bbq getting along fine, then she drops him off to babysit and calls him a few hours later, he then decides he will kill her, ( and if you want to use pregnancy as a motive then explain why he put a ring on her finger) goes down to the phone booth, kills her in some fashion and then disposes of her body, disables his vehicle and then like any good killer would do he heads right for the police station.

[Sundance]

Originally Posted by mwcarolina

i know you didnt say that, but you said they were rare and they are, BUT i personally believe that this is the work of a guy who has done this type of crime before. the fact that the body hasnt been found and the fact that the crime seems to be perfect is why i think this guy either killed or kidnapped before. i am NOT attacking you Sundance because you seem to just be looking on the other side than just flat out say Rob did it, BUT if you havent read there are some who will say Rob did it until they are blue in the face. one poster even said that Rob damaged his transmission on purpose which is just insane in my book. i know it could help with an alibi, but there are much better ways to make up an alibi than damage you own car like that. The story is far fetched, i admit it, but it doesnt mean it cant happen and i think it did, i think the guy who did this is a loner, possibly a fisherman type guy who came to town saw an opportunity and took it.

Yeah, I would subscribe to that also, if I had to bet on it, some criminal or ex-con maybe...It's impossible to close off all possibilities when we just don't know...I have no opinion on this one way or another, I'm just posing questions...Looks like someone else is the one with the opinions, the closed mind...I'm still not sure why we take rare occurances and pose them as the norm...Just because something happens rarely does not mean that's what we should look at right away, human nature maybe? "It happens" is not a good enough argument...

[TheCars1986]

Everyone seems to be forgetting that in 1991 in Missouri there were women who were getting abducted from abandoned convenience stores after they were closed. Trudy Darby (who's murder was solved), Cheryl Kenney, and Angela Hammond were all taken from convenience store parking lots after hours. There are several people (including law enforcement officials close to the case) who have the opinion that these are all the work of the same people. And for those who accept Rob's guilt, do they also entertain the fact that he's a serial killer? The whole "Rob is guilty" thing is so ludicrous I can't believe people still believe it.

[MegtheEgg86]

Originally Posted by mwcarolina

i am NOT attacking you Sundance because you seem to just be looking on the other side than just flat out say Rob did it, BUT if you havent read there are some who will say Rob did it until they are blue in the face. one poster even said that Rob damaged his transmission on purpose which is just insane in my book.

First, welcome to the board, Sundance. I'm currently doing lots of work so I sometimes don't notice when new posters join, so I apologize in the delay in saying hello.

Secondly, I agree with carolina--it seems to me you are simply looking from a different angle on the case and of course there is nothing at all wrong with that (that's why we're here, after all--to exchange ideas), but, at the risk of speaking for the entire board, this thread is not only one of the longest and most read, but one of the most heated. A few posters, for whatever reason, are bound and determined to convince everyone that Rob is responsible, but often cannot provide much evidence besides "he was close to her." You are absolutely correct in your assertion that most murder victims know their killers and random homicides and abductions are rare--that's why they make news headlines, after all. But that doesn't negate the fact that they DO occur, as mwcarolina and kane7474 have pointed out. I think there is overwhelming evidence to suggest that Angela was abducted by a stranger rather than her fiance. These threads are often chock-full of news articles and posts from family members or those close to the case. They often fill in the gaps the UM segments leave.

In any event, welcome again to the board.

[Sundance]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Everyone seems to be forgetting that in 1991 in Missouri there were women who were getting abducted from abandoned convenience stores after they were closed. Trudy Darby (who's murder was solved), Cheryl Kenney, and Angela Hammond were all taken from convenience store parking lots after hours. There are several people (including law enforcement officials close to the case) who have the opinion that these are all the work of the same people. And for those who accept Rob's guilt, do they also entertain the fact that he's a serial killer? The whole "Rob is guilty" thing is so ludicrous I can't believe people still believe it.

After reading that article from a couple years back, it seems to me that the police (now, not then) think that these are separate incidents...It was a popular theory then, but as investigations go on and crimes are solved it looks like they don't like that theory quite as much...Does anybody know how big the police department is in this town? Sounds like it might be quite small and that's why they were slow to react that night...I love the name MegtheEgg by the way!

[chacha6581]

Originally Posted by kane7474

We all know whats up here and we are use to it by now but it does get irritating. About every 3 or 4 months some jerk off comes into this forum with their first post talking about how they watched the episode and they think Rob was involved because of the way he looked into the camera or because the story is far fetched, or because he should have got the plate number, or because she was pregnant, or because they where on a pay phone for 30 minutes etc etc etc. Obviously they didnt bother to read into the forum in the least before posting because these issues have all been discussed at great length. People who actually knew Rob and Angie have posted her as well as Angela's family members. I think they are reliable sources.

As for the list of random killers list that you started lets add the Green River Killer (Ridgeway) along with the many other serial killers in the WA ( Yates, burgess,etc) area along with Ted Bundy, Otis Toole, Zodiac, Henry lee Lucas, BTK (Dennis Rader) Dahmer, Richard Ramirez, Dayle Wayne Eaton, Son of sam, Ed Kemper etc etc. All these people comitted many random abductions and or murders and this list barely scratches the surface. But I guess our new poster is right about random killings being so rare lol. I mean it just never happens right?

Well everyone is entitled to an opinion, not everyone will be Andy Griffith, there has to be a Barney Fife.
All jokes aside, I will never think Rob did anything, except act out of protective instinct. He did the best that he could at the time, sadly his car did not have as much vigor as he did.
That is why I think Angela described the man in the truck. I am sure that as soon as she said a stranger was near her, circling in the dark, Rob started asking questions. My husband would be the same way. So would my father, brother, male friend, etc. Honestly, I would ask my friend who was circling her or him.... For the nay sayers, you have to get out of the mindset "but if that was me, I would never be at a phone booth late at night"..... she did, it happened, and she is gone. It's not about why she was there,then;rather, it's where is she now?

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by chacha6581

Well everyone is entitled to an opinion, not everyone will be Andy Griffith, there has to be a Barney Fife.
All jokes aside, I will never think Rob did anything, except act out of protective instinct. He did the best that he could at the time, sadly his car did not have as much vigor as he did.
That is why I think Angela described the man in the truck. I am sure that as soon as she said a stranger was near her, circling in the dark, Rob started asking questions. My husband would be the same way. So would my father, brother, male friend, etc. Honestly, I would ask my friend who was circling her or him.... For the nay sayers, you have to get out of the mindset "but if that was me, I would never be at a phone booth late at night"..... she did, it happened, and she is gone. It's not about why she was there,then;rather, it's where is she now?

Exactly right. She was alone in a desolated area on a pay phone. This is a small town where everyone knows everyone and a complete stranger circles the parking lot several times then pulls in near her and is messing around in his truck. You think she isnt going to describe whats going on to the guy she's on the phone with? Ofcourse she is because it was very odd for a stranger to be there at that time of night.

[CuriousMind90]

Originally Posted by kane7474

Exactly right. She was alone in a desolated area on a pay phone. This is a small town where everyone knows everyone and a complete stranger circles the parking lot several times then pulls in near her and is messing around in his truck. You think she isnt going to describe whats going on to the guy she's on the phone with? Ofcourse she is because it was very odd for a stranger to be there at that time of night.

Exactly.
I wonder if we could get the 1990 census records for Clinton...In 2000, there were only 9,000 people living in Clinton, MO. I'd imagine there were even less in 1991.

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Everyone seems to be forgetting that in 1991 in Missouri there were women who were getting abducted from abandoned convenience stores after they were closed. Trudy Darby (who's murder was solved), Cheryl Kenney, and Angela Hammond were all taken from convenience store parking lots after hours. There are several people (including law enforcement officials close to the case) who have the opinion that these are all the work of the same people. And for those who accept Rob's guilt, do they also entertain the fact that he's a serial killer? The whole "Rob is guilty" thing is so ludicrous I can't believe people still believe it.

No one is forgetting as I just mentioned them in the above post. I still think they are connected regardless of the fact that the Clinton police dont seem to hold that belief.

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by CuriousMind90

Exactly.
I wonder if we could get the 1990 census records for Clinton...In 2000, there were only 9,000 people living in Clinton, MO. I'd imagine there were even less in 1991.

Right. Im sure it was alot less in 91. Also to the people that keep saying that its odd that no one else heard the chase let me say this. How many of you have heard stories of how a home was broken into and robbed in broad daylight and none of the neighbors saw anything out of the ordinary?? I have heard of this happening many times. Infact some relatives of mine recently had a break in during the day with people home on all sides of them. Not one person saw or heard a thing. Happens all the time. So its not so unthinkable that no one heard two vehicles driving fast at 11 pm on a weeknight in an area where there is few homes.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by kane7474

So its not so unthinkable that no one heard two vehicles driving fast at 11 pm on a weeknight in an area where there is few homes.

I agree. It was almost midnight when she was abducted on a Thursday in a small town. It's a miracle that there were even witnesses to the truck driving around. There's no doubt in my mind the town was desolate at the time she was abducted.

[MegtheEgg86]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

I agree. It was almost midnight when she was abducted on a Thursday in a small town. It's a miracle that there were even witnesses to the truck driving around. There's no doubt in my mind the town was desolate at the time she was abducted.

I agree as well. Kind of funny anecdote: I was out of town staying with relatives this past winter and accidentally locked myself out of the house while everyone else was gone. It was quite cold outside, so I wandered all around the perimeter of the house for nearly half an hour trying to decide what my best point of entry would be. I ended up climbing up to and through an unlocked (and very narrow) bathroom window. I was almost certain someone was going to call the police, as I was pretty much a stranger to everyone else in the neighborhood and I assume appeared pretty suspicious walking all around the house like that--and then climbing right through a window. I basically broke into the house in broad daylight with not so much as a peep from anyone else!

[chacha6581]

Originally Posted by kane7474

Exactly right. She was alone in a desolated area on a pay phone. This is a small town where everyone knows everyone and a complete stranger circles the parking lot several times then pulls in near her and is messing around in his truck. You think she isnt going to describe whats going on to the guy she's on the phone with? Ofcourse she is because it was very odd for a stranger to be there at that time of night.

The truck that was used was so distinct, it really irked me that they did not get a hit on the description. Especially with a description of the man.
Also, I know this is a long shot, but if I was the police I would have hit as many gas stations as I could. That kidnapper had to fill up for gas, sooner than later in an old gas guzzling truck. They should have checked scrap yards too, but I think checking gas stations may have been a great idea trying to catch him fleeing the area.

[CuriousMind90]

Originally Posted by chacha6581

The truck that was used was so distinct, it really irked me that they did not get a hit on the description. Especially with a description of the man.
Also, I know this is a long shot, but if I was the police I would have hit as many gas stations as I could. That kidnapper had to fill up for gas, sooner than later in an old gas guzzling truck. They should have checked scrap yards too, but I think checking gas stations may have been a great idea trying to catch him fleeing the area.

I was considering this whole thing with someone else:
I think the guy was a local. Not a Clinton resident, but he at least lived a town or so over. He was in Clinton for a REASON--not simply to abduct women. He was there for a primary purpose, and was coming from somewhere. Maybe for a job? To visit family or friends? To do some fishing?

Think--what would motivate a person, even yes a serial killer, to come through a tiny town? There had to be a primary purpose. He knew someone in Clinton, or had an opportunity there; again, a job or whatever. Maybe he came down there to fish once in a while; perhaps there was a community of fishermen back then. Or he was a part-time worker of some sort--very blue collar. Either way, people don't come to tiny towns for no reason, even if you're a loony who abducts women.

Was he prowling for women, or was Angela simply picked due to pure coincidence and opportunity? Something to consider--Was he driven to get a woman that night; if it wasn't Angela, would it have been another girl? Or was it simply totally coincidence?

I've pointed this out before, but the area around where Angie's abductor was headed in the chase has many lakes, rivers and forrested areas. And, if we could get perhaps an idea of where he was coming FROM, when he came upon the parking lot, we can get an idea of where he was going.

I believe he was someone who had at least been in Clinton quite a few times before. He might've come there regularly or semi-regularly. He knew the tiny town enough to know the back roads which led to a major highway. He knew the town enough not to get lost at a dead end in the heat of the chase.

Someone in Clinton at the time knew him. Maybe they didn't know what he did, or who he REALLY was, but someone knew him and isn't talking. Maybe they still live in Clinton in Missouri. And maybe they do know.

I don't believe this man came from very far away from Clinton. A town or two over, perhaps. A state over, AT MOST.

They did a vehicle check of over 1,000 vehicles like his truck, but I believe they overlooked him in the search. He may not have owned the truck; It could've belonged to a friend, family member or associate. In doing the check, his friend or whoever owned it might've had a clean record, or didn't fit the description given by Angie, and was thus overlooked.

That list of owners in 1991 should be re-looked over, re-checked, their associations and family at the time in 1991 revisited.

The guy knew the area. He was in this tiny town for a reason. The cops have got to look again at their 1991 investigation results.

[chacha6581]

Originally Posted by CuriousMind90

I was considering this whole thing with someone else:
I think the guy was a local. Not a Clinton resident, but he at least lived a town or so over. He was in Clinton for a REASON--not simply to abduct women. He was there for a primary purpose, and was coming from somewhere. Maybe for a job? To visit family or friends? To do some fishing?

Think--what would motivate a person, even yes a serial killer, to come through a tiny town? There had to be a primary purpose. He knew someone in Clinton, or had an opportunity there; again, a job or whatever. Maybe he came down there to fish once in a while; perhaps there was a community of fishermen back then. Or he was a part-time worker of some sort--very blue collar. Either way, people don't come to tiny towns for no reason, even if you're a loony who abducts women.

Was he prowling for women, or was Angela simply picked due to pure coincidence and opportunity? Something to consider--Was he driven to get a woman that night; if it wasn't Angela, would it have been another girl? Or was it simply totally coincidence?

I've pointed this out before, but the area around where Angie's abductor was headed in the chase has many lakes, rivers and forrested areas. And, if we could get perhaps an idea of where he was coming FROM, when he came upon the parking lot, we can get an idea of where he was going.

I believe he was someone who had at least been in Clinton quite a few times before. He might've come there regularly or semi-regularly. He knew the tiny town enough to know the back roads which led to a major highway. He knew the town enough not to get lost at a dead end in the heat of the chase.

Someone in Clinton at the time knew him. Maybe they didn't know what he did, or who he REALLY was, but someone knew him and isn't talking. Maybe they still live in Clinton in Missouri. And maybe they do know.

I don't believe this man came from very far away from Clinton. A town or two over, perhaps. A state over, AT MOST.

They did a vehicle check of over 1,000 vehicles like his truck, but I believe they overlooked him in the search. He may not have owned the truck; It could've belonged to a friend, family member or associate. In doing the check, his friend or whoever owned it might've had a clean record, or didn't fit the description given by Angie, and was thus overlooked.

That list of owners in 1991 should be re-looked over, re-checked, their associations and family at the time in 1991 revisited.

The guy knew the area. He was in this tiny town for a reason. The cops have got to look again at their 1991 investigation results.

Hey I brought that up in a previous post! I thought maybe because of the way he was dressed, he came through the area because of work. Maybe he was a painter, a handyman, a drywaller, or did pest control.
Perhaps instead, like you suggested, it was to go fishing. Most people usually go to fishing spots that they are familiar with right?
I was also thinking that he could have grown up a town or two away, so he knew how to get out of the area fast. Or that he may have been visiting an elderly parent or parents that lived in the area.