Angela Hammond - Girl abducted from phone booth

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86

If the suspect altered his vehicle, yes. Every one of them could "have it wrong." It is also, by no means, a stretch to assume that four people could recall multiple elements of the truck incorrectly, leading to the police having incorrect or incomplete information. Remember that child's game Telephone? Similar ordeal.

I wasn't there that night, nor have I ever lived in or near Clinton, MO. There is absolutely no telling where that man and Angela went after leaving downtown Clinton. Perhaps there are backroads. Perhaps there are access trails. Perhaps there are very secluded areas. It's dark. There are many complicating factors.

It's very easy and compelling to want to find a party "worthy" of absolute blame, but simply put, the world just isn't black and white.

(Additionally, I highly doubt that the Clinton Police Department had the capacity to "get on a radio and start alerting every available officer in a hundred mile radius", as police departments don't communicate with other agencies that way! They have internal systems, and they're based on geographic/jurisdiction area. (Most of the time. Many states now have statewide networks now, but I highly doubt city/county patrols are regularly equipped with acess.) If CPD wanted to contact another agency in 1990, they'd send a computer message, fax, or maybe even a Teletype. Dispatch would then relay that information via an alert or APB to its own members through its own channel(s).)

Ok the last part of your statement is wrong and I know that for a fact. They have had what is known as "mutual aid" in our state long before 1991. The Clinton police absolutley had the abilty to contact other jurdisdictions both via radio and by phone. I live 40 miles from Clinton and have been there many times. I got this information from a Henry County Sherrifs deputy who was involved with the search for Angela.

[MegtheEgg86]

Originally Posted by kane7474

Ok the last part of your statement is wrong and I know that for a fact. They have had what is known as "mutual aid" in our state long before 1991. The Clinton police absolutley had the abilty to contact other jurdisdictions both via radio and by phone. I live 40 miles from Clinton and have been there many times. I got this information from a Henry County Sherrifs deputy who was involved with the search for Angela.

I'm not so certain.

Perhaps you should have expressed your assessment of his/her agency's police work to this individual.

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86

I'm not so certain.

Perhaps you should have expressed your assessment of his/her agency's police work to this individual.

Actually this individual beileves the Clinton police are negligent. But hey maybe you know more then he would

[MegtheEgg86]

Originally Posted by kane7474

Actually this individual beileves the Clinton police are negligent. But hey maybe you know more then he would

Perhaps. Who knows.

[Clockworkhigh]

Originally Posted by kane7474

As for the car being dumped and the abductor switching cars at some pre determined location well LMAO at that. This is some low life serial killer not a CIA assassain.

We know this abductor from a conversation Rob had with Angela. Is it possible that in a rush Rob didn't accurately remember the truck's description and given to him and that he may not have been focusing entirely on the description of the car but rather the fact that is fiance was abducted right before his eyes?

Personally I think it's wrong that you laugh at the idea that he changed cars somewhere along the way. We know very little about this guy and I'm certainly not in the position to assume he wasn't smart enough to NOT switch cars from a vehicle that would stick out like a sore thumb even in a parking lot.

[Clockworkhigh]

Originally Posted by kane7474

Ok the last part of your statement is wrong and I know that for a fact. They have had what is known as "mutual aid" in our state long before 1991. The Clinton police absolutley had the abilty to contact other jurdisdictions both via radio and by phone. I live 40 miles from Clinton and have been there many times. I got this information from a Henry County Sherrifs deputy who was involved with the search for Angela.

But you're still ignoring the fact that the car could have been an incorrect description and that the abductor could have dumped the car right away. We don't know that he had an accomplice waiting for him, that's the thing, we don't. I think a moron is going to try to come up with a plan two seconds after an eyewitness is left in his dust. He probably thought his licence plate was written down (do we blame Rob for that? No.) and for all we know it was a phony plate to start with.

Blaming the police solely for that is incorrect in my opinion. The cops seem to have dropped the ball on the Wendy Camp case and maybe even Paul Pollis but this case never gave me the impression that the cops deserve the finger

[CuriousMind90]

I've been trying to recreate all possible scenarios as they might have played out in my mind.
Maybe there was an accomplice. For example, the one guy circles around; his partner maybe waits somewhere at the end of the block--somewhere within viewing range. He says the guy grab Angie, and pulls up. Maybe the accomplice has Angie and they head in separate directions (the abductor and the accomplice, who has Angie). Unlikely but I guess possible.

This case really depresses me, for many reasons. She didn't deserve to be taken away so young. She was a pretty girl with a whole life ahead of her. Also, her abductor/murderer deserves to be found and brought to justice. I hope he's still alive just for the fact that he can be caught and given a good lethal injection.

[cocytus]

The problem w/ an accomplice is that it makes it more likely that you'll get caught. Unless the accomplice was someone that had familial ties or was "intimate" it's not likely that the "partnership" would be stable for an extended period and probably wouldn't survive a "betrayal" or an extended incarceration.

Could there have been an accomplice? Sure. But it would also have increased the likelihood that the perpetrators would be caught.

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by Clockworkhigh

But you're still ignoring the fact that the car could have been an incorrect description and that the abductor could have dumped the car right away. We don't know that he had an accomplice waiting for him, that's the thing, we don't. I think a moron is going to try to come up with a plan two seconds after an eyewitness is left in his dust. He probably thought his licence plate was written down (do we blame Rob for that? No.) and for all we know it was a phony plate to start with.

Blaming the police solely for that is incorrect in my opinion. The cops seem to have dropped the ball on the Wendy Camp case and maybe even Paul Pollis but this case never gave me the impression that the cops deserve the finger

Im not ignoring anything. There was four people who saw that truck. Now maybe they got some details mixed up but its still a light colored older model truck driving around country roads at midnight right?
You cannot make any comparisson to the Wendy Camp case as the police knew full well who she was with before she went missing. No one knows who Angela was with.
I don't think they dropped the ball in the insuing investigation but in the crucial time directly after the abduction. Generally the rule is you have 48 hours to solve the crime or leeds go cold and suspects vanish. That is what happened here.

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by cocytus

The problem w/ an accomplice is that it makes it more likely that you'll get caught. Unless the accomplice was someone that had familial ties or was "intimate" it's not likely that the "partnership" would be stable for an extended period and probably wouldn't survive a "betrayal" or an extended incarceration.

Could there have been an accomplice? Sure. But it would also have increased the likelihood that the perpetrators would be caught.

Ya just ask Marvin Chaney what happens when you have a big mouth accomplice with ya.

[CuriousMind90]

Originally Posted by kane7474

Ya just ask Marvin Chaney what happens when you have a big mouth accomplice with ya.

Off topic but I wonder how they BOTH fell into being serial killers. I mean one killer is common but a pair of brothers--two in the same family? And remember at the time of the killings, Rush was only 15! A 15 year old serial killer, even if he is working with his older brother, would be kind of rare I'd think. And he seemed to be singularly vicious. I mean Bundy was a vicious killer but the guy had a bit of intelligence, even the Judge in his trial recognized that. Rush, from the letters, just comes off like a psychopath, a demented, sadistic creep with no remorse, nothing regret, no empathy. And from his writings, he fits the profile I was talking about, a serial killer with average or below average intelligence who acts rashly on emotion, because like I said, Angela's abductor was either very confidant or very foolish.

You know, let's say Chaney was the one who abducted Angela, Rush wouldn't have even had to be there--He could've been waiting back at the barn where they took the women to wait for his brother to get back with a woman. Just a theory, which would explain why no one was noticed but the bearded man.

I wonder if the other three guys Rush mentioned were ever investigated and if they are still alive or free, because Rush's letters imply that these other three men had helped them out and worked with them in abducting and/or killing other women. One of them is the very least guilty of obstructing justice as he burned down the brothers' barn which had other bodies and evidence (enough evidence, Rush claimed, that could put him on death row), and one of them was present for the Darby murder.

Rush in his letters also mentions "three b***ches". Funny that in the period of 1991 in Missouri there was three abductions of women which all fit a similar MO--Angela, Trudy Darby, and the Cheryl Kenny. I, like you, don't know how the cops ruled them out. There's quite a few similarities:

1) Angela's abductor, and Rush and Chaney seemed to be "site based" serial killers--They just picked out a location where a vulnerable woman was.

2) He/They seemed to not really worry about being caught, and would hang around the location before abducting their prey. Note that in the Darby case, Trudy became nervous because she saw a creepy man hanging outside her store for over a few minutes. In Angie's case, her abductor waited and actually briefly spoke with her before finally deciding to abduct her.

3) All 3 murders happened in Southern Missouri less than six months apart. Darby's murder (January 19th 1991), Cheryl Kenny (February 27th 1991), and Angela's abduction (April 4th, 1991). The towns in which they happened (Mack's Creek, Clinton, and Nevada) are also not very far apart.

4) Angela's description of her abductor matches Chaney's appearance. Also, Chaney doesn't look creepy, which I believe kind of "disarmed" Angela if you will. She seemed to not be overly afraid of the man, and while Rush looks like a scary kind of guy-Has that wild animal look in his eyes--Chaney doesn't.

5) The fact that no body has been found for either Kenny or Angie. This would fit in with Rush claiming that with the exception of Darby, they burned all their victims' bodies, and in fact it was this slight change of MO which got them caught.

Now, as I said before when we've talked about this theory: The truck didn't necessarily have to belong to the brothers', but could have belonged to anyone of those three associates Rush mentioned.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by CuriousMind90

Off topic but I wonder how they BOTH fell into being serial killers. I mean one killer is common but a pair of brothers--two in the same family? And remember at the time of the killings, Rush was only 15! A 15 year old serial killer, even if he is working with his older brother, would be kind of rare I'd think. And he seemed to be singularly vicious. I mean Bundy was a vicious killer but the guy had a bit of intelligence, even the Judge in his trial recognized that. Rush, from the letters, just comes off like a psychopath, a demented, sadistic creep with no remorse, nothing regret, no empathy. And from his writings, he fits the profile I was talking about, a serial killer with average or below average intelligence who acts rashly on emotion, because like I said, Angela's abductor was either very confidant or very foolish.

You know, let's say Chaney was the one who abducted Angela, Rush wouldn't have even had to be there--He could've been waiting back at the barn where they took the women to wait for his brother to get back with a woman. Just a theory, which would explain why no one was noticed but the bearded man.

I wonder if the other three guys Rush mentioned were ever investigated and if they are still alive or free, because Rush's letters imply that these other three men had helped them out and worked with them in abducting and/or killing other women. One of them is the very least guilty of obstructing justice as he burned down the brothers' barn which had other bodies and evidence (enough evidence, Rush claimed, that could put him on death row), and one of them was present for the Darby murder.

Rush in his letters also mentions "three b***ches". Funny that in the period of 1991 in Missouri there was three abductions of women which all fit a similar MO--Angela, Trudy Darby, and the Cheryl Kenny. I, like you, don't know how the cops ruled them out. There's quite a few similarities:

1) Angela's abductor, and Rush and Chaney seemed to be "site based" serial killers--They just picked out a location where a vulnerable woman was.

2) He/They seemed to not really worry about being caught, and would hang around the location before abducting their prey. Note that in the Darby case, Trudy became nervous because she saw a creepy man hanging outside her store for over a few minutes. In Angie's case, her abductor waited and actually briefly spoke with her before finally deciding to abduct her.

3) All 3 murders happened in Southern Missouri less than six months apart. Darby's murder (January 19th 1991), Cheryl Kenny (February 27th 1991), and Angela's abduction (April 4th, 1991). The towns in which they happened (Mack's Creek, Clinton, and Nevada) are also not very far apart.

4) Angela's description of her abductor matches Chaney's appearance. Also, Chaney doesn't look creepy, which I believe kind of "disarmed" Angela if you will. She seemed to not be overly afraid of the man, and while Rush looks like a scary kind of guy-Has that wild animal look in his eyes--Chaney doesn't.

5) The fact that no body has been found for either Kenny or Angie. This would fit in with Rush claiming that with the exception of Darby, they burned all their victims' bodies, and in fact it was this slight change of MO which got them caught.

Now, as I said before when we've talked about this theory: The truck didn't necessarily have to belong to the brothers', but could have belonged to anyone of those three associates Rush mentioned.

This is very interesting...is there a website with info about Rush and Chaney, or their possible connections to Angela's disappearance?

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

This is very interesting...is there a website with info about Rush and Chaney, or their possible connections to Angela's disappearance?

I have been saying this since we first found out about Rush and Chaney. I really wish someone in law enforcement or anyone close to the case would tell us just why the police think they can rule them out. I dont get what the big secret is here.

[kane7474]

You guys should look at the Lisa Kimmel case if you havent allready. The man who was convicted of her abduction and murder"s name is David Eaton. In my opinion this is an exact profile of the man that took Angela. This guy also got away with many of these type of abductions before he was caught.

[CuriousMind90]

Originally Posted by kane7474

You guys should lool at the Lisa Kimmel case if you havent allready. The man who was convicted of her abduction and murder"s name is David Eaton. In my opinion this is an exact profile of the man that took Angela. This guy also got away with many of these type of abductions before he was caught.

How so?