Angela Hammond - Girl abducted from phone booth

[CuriousMind90]

Originally Posted by melskie007

With the book alone my thought process is it would open up the case again and perhaps they would get new leads..who knows? The truck should have been looked for most deffinately. And the way the man seemed to me, hmm..He tinkered around in his truck with a flash light, he was wearing raggety looking clothing with overalls and not shaved? does this not seem like someone local to you, rather then a killer out on the loose? I would bet maybe just by her description to look in the real rural parts, maybe run down type of homes and such. I feel just by the profile angela gave he seems local to me. Not someone just driving through. Who knows, maybe he was cleaning up space in his truck to fit her in when he abducted her shortly after? I think we are looking for a resident of the town who doesnt socialize with people and probably only goes into town to get essential things he needs. If you think about any serial killer profile, they still care about appearance and descise. This man is driving a old truck, he has a flashlight, he has crap in his truck, he looks old and has beard and dirty clothes like he's a worker of some sort? hmm...They should re-look at the area now. They may find someone who knows someone who fits the profile of a loner and works on cars or works on machinery. This is where i'd start this case.

Well there's a few problems...
One, I don't think we have an approximate age of this guy. Was he a young guy (20s-30s) or older at the time--That would help.

We know he wore a beard or mustache, and seemed dirty looking, he wore overalls, drove an old truck with a fish decal. We know he wore eyeglasses and a ball cap. The fact that she gave a pretty specific description of his appearance (all things considered) it's odd that NO ONE came forward, especially back then, or even especially when the UM segment came out. He may well very be a loner type, as you speculated. If not, I would bet there are quite a few people who know him who know that he did it that have known it for a long time yet have sheltered him from justice.

I do agree the guy's clothes and the truck plus the decal make him sound rural. This man was not a city dweller or even suburban by any chance--His appearance would have stuck out in such a setting. And I do think he was a local, or at the very least, knew the area. There is, in the Southern part of MO, the Ozark Mountains, full of a lot of forested areas, lakes and I'd imagine some out of the way, creepy places. Maybe this guy lives in some shack somewhere in the woods, or did at the time.

If he is still alive, this guy is somewhere. From Angie's description, I wouldn't bet on him being overly intelligent or sophisticated--Not the type to flee to Europe or even very far from a rural sort of area, I would venture to guess. We are missing this man, her body, and that truck. One of those three HAS to turn up somewhere.

The local fishing areas and fisherman's communities in the immediate and surrounding area should have been checked out in great detail.

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by melskie007

With the book alone my thought process is it would open up the case again and perhaps they would get new leads..who knows? The truck should have been looked for most deffinately. And the way the man seemed to me, hmm..He tinkered around in his truck with a flash light, he was wearing raggety looking clothing with overalls and not shaved? does this not seem like someone local to you, rather then a killer out on the loose? I would bet maybe just by her description to look in the real rural parts, maybe run down type of homes and such. I feel just by the profile angela gave he seems local to me. Not someone just driving through. Who knows, maybe he was cleaning up space in his truck to fit her in when he abducted her shortly after? I think we are looking for a resident of the town who doesnt socialize with people and probably only goes into town to get essential things he needs. If you think about any serial killer profile, they still care about appearance and descise. This man is driving a old truck, he has a flashlight, he has crap in his truck, he looks old and has beard and dirty clothes like he's a worker of some sort? hmm...They should re-look at the area now. They may find someone who knows someone who fits the profile of a loner and works on cars or works on machinery. This is where i'd start this case.

I can promise you he is not a local. I live 50 miles from Clinton and I know plenty of people there as well as in other small towns around here and there is no way that both Angela and Rob would not have recognized this guy or the truck if he had been local. Angie and Rob both lived in Clinton their entire lives, everyone in small towns knows everyone, there is just no way they wouldnt have seen that truck before. Also keep in mind that two other witnesses saw the truck and had no clue who it was. So thats now four people in a small town that never saw this truck before.

I assure you the police did go after and question anyone anywhere near Clinton with a truck like this and nothing turned up. There was also a sizable reward out for info, I beileve like over 20 grand. You don't think that if this guy was from Clinton his neighboors wouldnt have turned him in for that kind of money?? Hell when the UM episode aired they recieved something like 700 tips from people in the area falling over one another to turn people in they thought might match that description and still nothing turned up.
They guy is not from around there. Believe me Clinton MO is not the only place that has filty bearded men with flashlights, overalls and older pickups. Also all serial killers are not the clean cut Ted Bundy/ Jeffery Dahmer types. They come in all shapes sizes and types.

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by CuriousMind90

Well there's a few problems...
One, I don't think we have an approximate age of this guy. Was he a young guy (20s-30s) or older at the time--That would help.

We know he wore a beard or mustache, and seemed dirty looking, he wore overalls, drove an old truck with a fish decal. We know he wore eyeglasses and a ball cap. The fact that she gave a pretty specific description of his appearance (all things considered) it's odd that NO ONE came forward, especially back then, or even especially when the UM segment came out. He may well very be a loner type, as you speculated. If not, I would bet there are quite a few people who know him who know that he did it that have known it for a long time yet have sheltered him from justice.

I do agree the guy's clothes and the truck plus the decal make him sound rural. This man was not a city dweller or even suburban by any chance--His appearance would have stuck out in such a setting. And I do think he was a local, or at the very least, knew the area. There is, in the Southern part of MO, the Ozark Mountains, full of a lot of forested areas, lakes and I'd imagine some out of the way, creepy places. Maybe this guy lives in some shack somewhere in the woods, or did at the time.

If he is still alive, this guy is somewhere. From Angie's description, I wouldn't bet on him being overly intelligent or sophisticated--Not the type to flee to Europe or even very far from a rural sort of area, I would venture to guess. We are missing this man, her body, and that truck. One of those three HAS to turn up somewhere.

The local fishing areas and fisherman's communities in the immediate and surrounding area should have been checked out in great detail.

I do think the man is from a rural area, no doubt about it. But Clinton is not in the Ozark Mountains and Clinton is alot less forested then you might think. I do think this guy may have been from the ozark mountain area or southern MO. That is totally possible. I aslo highly doubt Angela was his only victim. Anyone with this kinda balls has done this more then once. I still say that its very plausible that Marvin Chaney was the man driving the truck.

[CuriousMind90]

Looking through an old family photo album of mine, I came across this photo. This photo was taken in May 1993 from the front window of my parents' car on the way to Disneyworld.

Note the pick up on the righthand side of the photograph. Maybe just a coincidence, but Rob did report the truck as being a Yellow, Two Tone pick up truck, whereas Angie reported it as Green.

Note the Fish Jumping out of Water decal on the rear window. And the plates don't seem to be Florida plates from my research, but are possibly Oklahoma plates. I googled images of Florida license plates and this pickup's plates don't match FLA license plates from what I've seen.

I'm not sure of the model year of this truck. I know it was reported as being a Ford pick up, but looking at older model Ford trucks, you can't really see the Ford logo well, especially in the dark. I mean if Rob was unable to get the license plate number, or even notice the license plate well enough that he could tell what state it was from, how would he be able to tell if it was a Ford truck or not?

Full sized version at the link:
http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/9273/may199318.jpg

[CuriousMind90]

Originally Posted by kane7474

I do think the man is from a rural area, no doubt about it. But Clinton is not in the Ozark Mountains and Clinton is alot less forested then you might think. I do think this guy may have been from the ozark mountain area or southern MO. That is totally possible. I aslo highly doubt Angela was his only victim. Anyone with this kinda balls has done this more then once. I still say that its very plausible that Marvin Chaney was the man driving the truck.

I really think the guy is:

1) A fisherman; rural. Definitely a fisherman, either by hobby or profession.
2) Not particularly intelligent. Might have worked on a farm.
3) Possibly a drinker; bar fighter type maybe. Maybe involved in drugs.
4) Probably living in the more forested region of MO or Southern MO. If not MO, he would live in one of the border states (Arkansas, Kansas, Tennesse, Oklahoma, Nebraska). He could live in a Southern state--possibly Texas or Florida. I would not say that he lived in any state along the East or West Coasts.
5) If it was Chaney, whose truck was it? Where did the truck go? He and his brother were captured in 1994 if I remember correctly, only 3 years later. Sure, it's possible it had been junked or ditched by then. But if not--Where was it when he was arrested?

Surely investigators would have looked into the Parel, Cheevers, and Marshal which Rush mentioned in his letters. If so, if any of them had owned a Pickup truck, that should've come up.

Chaney does fit the profile very closely. His appearance does match Angie's description, he and his brother were operating in Southern Missouri in 1991, and their MO with the Darby murder is similar to Angie's case. However, somehow they were ruled out, both by investigators, and seemingly by Angie's brother (he came here stating he thought her abductor/murderer was one of a crew of people involved in drugs in a county or so over).

I wish her brother would come back on here someday soon and shed any new light.

[melskie007]

Originally Posted by CuriousMind90

I really think the guy is:

1) A fisherman; rural. Definitely a fisherman, either by hobby or profession.
2) Not particularly intelligent. Might have worked on a farm.
3) Possibly a drinker; bar fighter type maybe. Maybe involved in drugs.
4) Probably living in the more forested region of MO or Southern MO. If not MO, he would live in one of the border states (Arkansas, Kansas, Tennesse, Oklahoma, Nebraska). He could live in a Southern state--possibly Texas or Florida. I would not say that he lived in any state along the East or West Coasts.
5) If it was Chaney, whose truck was it? Where did the truck go? He and his brother were captured in 1994 if I remember correctly, only 3 years later. Sure, it's possible it had been junked or ditched by then. But if not--Where was it when he was arrested?

Surely investigators would have looked into the Parel, Cheevers, and Marshal which Rush mentioned in his letters. If so, if any of them had owned a Pickup truck, that should've come up.

Chaney does fit the profile very closely. His appearance does match Angie's description, he and his brother were operating in Southern Missouri in 1991, and their MO with the Darby murder is similar to Angie's case. However, somehow they were ruled out, both by investigators, and seemingly by Angie's brother (he came here stating he thought her abductor/murderer was one of a crew of people involved in drugs in a county or so over).

I wish her brother would come back on here someday soon and shed any new light.

I agree with your theory...he could be the type to come into town when he needs things as i mentioned before. And Kane, I have read several books on serial killers, im familiar with ted bundy and many many more, i know they come in all types but i do feel given the description and how he approached her, it seems like a local..maybe he lives in heavily wooded area and people dont make contact with him since he's a loner type, maybe he's a biker, it's hard to say...? I feel he perhaps got smart about ditching the truck or painting it...Does anyone have a image of the location where she was abducted? it would help to see the angle of the road.

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by CuriousMind90

Looking through an old family photo album of mine, I came across this photo. This photo was taken in May 1993 from the front window of my parents' car on the way to Disneyworld.

Note the pick up on the righthand side of the photograph. Maybe just a coincidence, but Rob did report the truck as being a Yellow, Two Tone pick up truck, whereas Angie reported it as Green.

Note the Fish Jumping out of Water decal on the rear window. And the plates don't seem to be Florida plates from my research, but are possibly Oklahoma plates. I googled images of Florida license plates and this pickup's plates don't match FLA license plates from what I've seen.

I'm not sure of the model year of this truck. I know it was reported as being a Ford pick up, but looking at older model Ford trucks, you can't really see the Ford logo well, especially in the dark. I mean if Rob was unable to get the license plate number, or even notice the license plate well enough that he could tell what state it was from, how would he be able to tell if it was a Ford truck or not?

Full sized version at the link:
http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/9273/may199318.jpg

Very interesting indeed but the truck that Rob described was early 70s model and the one in your pic is a late 80s.

[CuriousMind90]

Originally Posted by melskie007

I agree with your theory...he could be the type to come into town when he needs things as i mentioned before. And Kane, I have read several books on serial killers, im familiar with ted bundy and many many more, i know they come in all types but i do feel given the description and how he approached her, it seems like a local..maybe he lives in heavily wooded area and people dont make contact with him since he's a loner type, maybe he's a biker, it's hard to say...? I feel he perhaps got smart about ditching the truck or painting it...Does anyone have a image of the location where she was abducted? it would help to see the angle of the road.

Possibly. I still wonder what he was searching through the car with a flashlight for. It could be one of several things:

1) He could've been searching for a weapon; either a 'real' weapon (gun, knife, garrote)
2) Possibly clearing off space to put Angie in, as someone else suggested
3) Or, he might've simply pretended to look in his car as a distraction.

If it's the first, that says he was kind of unorganized--If he had to actually search through the car for a weapon. If he was actually looking for a weapon or clearing off space and not just trying to distract Angie, than it sounds to me like the actual abduction part of the abduction wasn't planned out. He had his escape route planned, it seems, and had a definite destination, but perhaps not a "game plan" for the abduction.

I wonder what kind of tools or potential weapons a fisherman would have.

As for the area she was kidnapped:
http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl...28510433837713

You either click on the map, for a map lay out, or you can click on the photo which leads you to google earth, where you can see the very street where she was kidnapped in real time as if you were standing there. She was kidnapped at 210 South Second Street.

Where she was kidnapped was a supermarket I believe in 1991. Now it's a car dealership. She was kidnapped on the corner across the street from the place marked off as "First Baptist Church." The phoneboothes were a few feet off the corner--On the same side as that electrical post.

Now, if you follow the actual map map down along 2nd Avenue, you'll see where Rob lost the abductor--About two miles downward from the site of the abduction at Charles. E Culvird Drive. If you look down the map, you'll see it turns off there in two directions: West or East. West leads you to a big area of woodland (marked in green) eventually if you follow the turn offs from there, where there is a pretty big lake. East Calvird leads you to several small wooded areas (marked in green) as well as numerous bodies of water.

Note also when you look at the map that there were plenty of other turn off points from 210 South Second Street to Culvird Drive, but her abductor chose to turn at that particular intersection. He could've turned, for example, on Remington Circle. Had he not known the area well, he wouldn't have known that Remingtonled to a dead end.

[bell83]

Originally Posted by kane7474

Very interesting indeed but the truck that Rob described was early 70s model and the one in your pic is a late 80s.

Not to mention it's a Chevy...but interesting, nonetheless.

[CuriousMind90]

Originally Posted by bell83

Not to mention it's a Chevy...but interesting, nonetheless.

One thing that's always bothered me with Rob chasing the truck:
He was maybe chasing the truck for 5, 10, maybe 15 minutes at most; He was able to recognize such a minute item as the make of the truck (which would require him noticing the Ford logo on the front or back), but he couldn't even get a look at WHAT STATE the license plates of the truck were from? I could understand not remembering or noticing the whole license plate number, but not to notice what color the plate was, or anything like that? Nothing that could've identified where it was coming from/going to as far as the plates?

That's why I still put the pic up, despite it being a Chevy--Just in case Rob was mistaken in calling it a Ford. I wasn't sure if the one I posted fit the era but apparently it's "newer" than the one he tailed.

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by CuriousMind90

One thing that's always bothered me with Rob chasing the truck:
He was maybe chasing the truck for 5, 10, maybe 15 minutes at most; He was able to recognize such a minute item as the make of the truck (which would require him noticing the Ford logo on the front or back), but he couldn't even get a look at WHAT STATE the license plates of the truck were from? I could understand not remembering or noticing the whole license plate number, but not to notice what color the plate was, or anything like that? Nothing that could've identified where it was coming from/going to as far as the plates?

That's why I still put the pic up, despite it being a Chevy--Just in case Rob was mistaken in calling it a Ford. I wasn't sure if the one I posted fit the era but apparently it's "newer" than the one he tailed.

My understanding is that he only chased it for a few minutes at best. He damaged the transmission when he threw it into reverse and only made it another block or two. I dont think he was close enough to see a plate. On the older trucks they said Ford or Chevrolet in big letters on the tailgate. Look at the truck in your pic, I can see its a chevy but have no clue what state that tag is from. We also have no clue has to how close he got. Remember the driver of the truck was going full speed and Rob had to turn around and give chase from a dead stop. So he may have never been closer then 100 ft while behind the truck.

[cocytus]

Originally Posted by melskie007

With the book alone my thought process is it would open up the case again and perhaps they would get new leads..who knows? The truck should have been looked for most deffinately. And the way the man seemed to me, hmm..He tinkered around in his truck with a flash light, he was wearing raggety looking clothing with overalls and not shaved? does this not seem like someone local to you, rather then a killer out on the loose? I would bet maybe just by her description to look in the real rural parts, maybe run down type of homes and such. I feel just by the profile angela gave he seems local to me. Not someone just driving through. Who knows, maybe he was cleaning up space in his truck to fit her in when he abducted her shortly after? I think we are looking for a resident of the town who doesnt socialize with people and probably only goes into town to get essential things he needs. If you think about any serial killer profile, they still care about appearance and descise. This man is driving a old truck, he has a flashlight, he has crap in his truck, he looks old and has beard and dirty clothes like he's a worker of some sort? hmm...They should re-look at the area now. They may find someone who knows someone who fits the profile of a loner and works on cars or works on machinery. This is where i'd start this case.

Ummm...I work on both cars and machinery and I'm neither "raggedy" nor unshaven. You seem to have set ideas on a person's profession based on the personal appearance. That's just not a practical mindset, is it?

If the primary narrative of this is to believed, you can safely assume that:

1) This guy was very familiar w/ the area that this took place. His rapid exit and his relative ease w/ driving around comfortably in it state that fact.

2) The police in Clinton didn't immediately put out an APB based on the description given to them the primary "witness" to the crime.

3) The killer had to have subdued the woman pretty quickly as she simply could jumped from the vehicle as soon as he slowed or stopped.

4) The description of the truck wasn't broadcast in the surrounding using the media in a reasonable amount of time. How do I know this? Paying at the pump was relatively rare in rural areas at that time, so the driver of the truck would have had to get out of his truck and walk in to pay for his gas somewhere in the area or relatively nearby.

Also, while there may have been a number of trucks in Missouri similar to the one reported to be involved, there weren't that many in the area. Had the description been broadcast shortly after the disappearance, it's likely that it could have been identified in a short order.

5) While this killer may be very familiar w/ the area, it's doubtful that he was a local. Why? The town of Clinton had a population of around 9,000. While everybody may not know everyone in the town, there are only so many weirdos and this guy would have stood out almost immediately.

As I have stated (multiple times) this case requires a serious rethink. Another narrative concerning the disappearance needs to be created as the one that has been used for the last 20 years has provided little in the way of useful clues.

All of the available evidence needs to re-examined and all leads (no matter where they go) need to looked at again.

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by cocytus

Ummm...I work on both cars and machinery and I'm neither "raggedy" nor unshaven. You seem to have set ideas on a person's profession based on the personal appearance. That's just not a practical mindset, is it?

If the primary narrative of this is to believed, you can safely assume that:

1) This guy was very familiar w/ the area that this took place. His rapid exit and his relative ease w/ driving around comfortably in it state that fact.

2) The police in Clinton didn't immediately put out an APB based on the description given to them the primary "witness" to the crime.

3) The killer had to have subdued the woman pretty quickly as she simply could jumped from the vehicle as soon as he slowed or stopped.

4) The description of the truck wasn't broadcast in the surrounding using the media in a reasonable amount of time. How do I know this? Paying at the pump was relatively rare in rural areas at that time, so the driver of the truck would have had to get out of his truck and walk in to pay for his gas somewhere in the area or relatively nearby.

Also, while there may have been a number of trucks in Missouri similar to the one reported to be involved, there weren't that many in the area. Had the description been broadcast shortly after the disappearance, it's likely that it could have been identified in a short order.

5) While this killer may be very familiar w/ the area, it's doubtful that he was a local. Why? The town of Clinton had a population of around 9,000. While everybody may not know everyone in the town, there are only so many weirdos and this guy would have stood out almost immediately.

As I have stated (multiple times) this case requires a serious rethink. Another narrative concerning the disappearance needs to be created as the one that has been used for the last 20 years has provided little in the way of useful clues.

All of the available evidence needs to re-examined and all leads (no matter where they go) need to looked at again.

Well I completley agree with you in the idea that the Police botched this by not getting an apb out the minute Rob showed up at the station. There is no doubt this truck could have been tracked down had every law enforcement agency in a hundred mile radius been notified directly after the abduction.

I also agree he was not local but familar with the area. On that point I also dont beileve that he needed to be around Clinton much to become familar with the main roads going in and out. Think about this, if you have ever been on vacation in an area your not familar with, how long does it take for you to know your way around atleast the general area your in? Not long at all actually. I think the man (or men) where driving around looking for lone women possibly working in a gas station or convienance store. He didnt find what he was after but just happened to see Angela alone at the phone. Circled around a few times while mauling it over and then decided to go after her. She was on the phone for a half an hour giving him plenty of time to think about his escape route after grabbing her.

Also from what we have been told by Angela's brother as well as the local media it seems the case is getting another look. There are three times as many investigators on this now as there was when it happned. So lets hope they are covering all the bases.

[melskie007]

Originally Posted by cocytus

Ummm...I work on both cars and machinery and I'm neither "raggedy" nor unshaven. You seem to have set ideas on a person's profession based on the personal appearance. That's just not a practical mindset, is it?

If the primary narrative of this is to believed, you can safely assume that:

1) This guy was very familiar w/ the area that this took place. His rapid exit and his relative ease w/ driving around comfortably in it state that fact.

2) The police in Clinton didn't immediately put out an APB based on the description given to them the primary "witness" to the crime.

3) The killer had to have subdued the woman pretty quickly as she simply could jumped from the vehicle as soon as he slowed or stopped.

4) The description of the truck wasn't broadcast in the surrounding using the media in a reasonable amount of time. How do I know this? Paying at the pump was relatively rare in rural areas at that time, so the driver of the truck would have had to get out of his truck and walk in to pay for his gas somewhere in the area or relatively nearby.

Also, while there may have been a number of trucks in Missouri similar to the one reported to be involved, there weren't that many in the area. Had the description been broadcast shortly after the disappearance, it's likely that it could have been identified in a short order.

5) While this killer may be very familiar w/ the area, it's doubtful that he was a local. Why? The town of Clinton had a population of around 9,000. While everybody may not know everyone in the town, there are only so many weirdos and this guy would have stood out almost immediately.

As I have stated (multiple times) this case requires a serious rethink. Another narrative concerning the disappearance needs to be created as the one that has been used for the last 20 years has provided little in the way of useful clues.

All of the available evidence needs to re-examined and all leads (no matter where they go) need to looked at again.

3) she yelled for robs name and was struggling with the trucker so she was not subdued quickly as you referenced here.

5) as you mentioned. the guy maybe weird? but why are you being hypocritical with the original conclusion i came up with? You mention in your first paragraph me coming to the conclusion based on a stereo typical but later you come to the same conclusion pretty much in so many words? calling him a weirdo and perhaps standing out? well, if he had in fact stood out i believe there would have been more witnesses to him driving off with her, wouldnt you say? and we all know he was rugged as she described so the question now is the scenerio in which she was in? Where in fact the kidnapping took place? what was around the area? I see info here so I do want to check this out on the map. This is key to investigating this as well as what type of profile he was of a person. Many here speculate him being a fisher, truck driver, living in wooded parts perhaps? He had to have come into town for a reason, huh? it wasnt originally to pick her up, she was at the phone booth and he saw her as he drove by..so why did he come to town? who knows? this is what we must figure out? You are correct about looking at this further and i have presented many interesting points as some others have as well..so lets see about working as an effort to see what our minds come up with.

[Apostapler]

Originally Posted by CuriousMind90

I wish her brother would come back on here someday soon and shed any new light.

He runs her myspace memorial page. If I can remember when I am on a computer that can access Myspace I will send him a message.