Chad Maurer murder

[MegtheEgg86]

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

ooooh boy.

Hey, I'll give Matt C one thing: he actually served in the Canadian Army before he decided he knew anything about the military, let alone denigrate it.

[Francium]

Military worship is bizarre. No one blasted "teh trO0ps." An awful lot of my friends from the Korean War to present are military. It's amazing how many are bitter or dumbfounded when they realize they put their general health on the line for a government that lied to the public about the realities of geopolitical issues around the world or when Washington fumbled with policies in relation to occupation or with state-sanctioned enemies while casting out their own men doing the fighting. None of this is controversial, and people on this board in particular should understand the dynamic between the nobility and foolhardiness of serving such flaky characters.

But concerning the initial point I made, there's nothing controversial or strange about it. If you want to be employed in a combat regiment, you need wars to justify your job. The US Government isn't going to pay some sergeant more than $2000 per month, along with benefits and pensions, to sit around an office during peacetime when they instead could choose not to resign him and instead hire a private for a third of a sergeant's pay to do the exact job. Now think about that. How is that not "too dumb to know any better"?

I'm not anti-military by any means, and I'm not just saying that. It's basically an observation of a political class that exploits a usually poor or working class segment of the population with boot camp propaganda that "X is an evil group, and they are different as a human than you" when such propaganda is only possible when those trainees never read a book about the very people the government tells them to hate. It's actually sad when you think about it, and an untold number of lives get ruined through pain medication, combat wounds, or death serving interests of a government that, contrary to their feel-good rhetoric, treat them like expendable pawns. Those who confuse "Suport R Tro0ps" with being a lemming only fuel this nonsense and thus are indirectly responsible for ultimately exploitative institutions like military. Full Metal Jacket thematically makes that point clear with people like Pvt. Pyles.

Military is necessary only because of the security dilemma and the fact that Great Powers start **** around the world for no reason whatsoever except that it's the invisible hand to international relations, and militaries need gullible people to carry out those tasks for the sake of a game that is driven by insecurity and immaturity, but must exist only because Great Powers cannot act in any other way. Why? - because Great Powers lie, cheat, and steal, and institutions like the UN can't prevent those traits on most security issues that are at least medium-risk.

And don't presume anything about my relation with military. I'm a military intellectual and like to fight. That doesn't mean I have to have a rose-colored view about institutions that are causal in getting guys faces blown off. (In fact, most military people I know are candid in saying military institutions turn people to lemmings, which is a global view anyway from those on the inside.) The difference between me and most people is I can look at a wounded combat soldier without guilt, since I know the reality of the world. Most just turn a blind eye to such wounded types, pretend they don't exist, and carry on with Fox News propaganda from chimps like Sean Hannity, who fails to realize just how patronizing he comes across to most combat soldiers anyway.

Besides, I'm historically cynical of the pro-military propaganda that goes on nowadays. The only reason why people say that crap, besides the marketing gimmick that comes with it, is there's no draft. Many Americans resented the military during Vietnam even though it was the Johnson Administration, not the military (political over military, again), who escalated the conflict to make a draft necessary.

Historically, countries have had a real mistrust of military institutions, especially Great Powers, since they often caused problems that drug everyone else in the country into a slaughterhouse, or simply made life uncomfortable (an issue Americans have never truly experienced outside of her own revolution and the American Civil War, I might add, relatively speaking). Militaries tend to be popular when they're winning, unpopular when they're losing and have drug everyone else into the conflict with conscription or through colonial conquests (unless it's for the sake of national glory or defense of the homeland territory), and have been seen as having too much power for its own good - or as politicians in multiple countries have said, "Military questions are too important to be carried out by military generals."

Lesson for the day...

[TracyLynnS]

So Chad Mauer ended up dead because he was a pro military, dope selling, draft dodging, political agitating, pot smoking, congressman bribing, blood thirsty, government hating, fox news watching, muscle car enthusiast, elitist, tree hugging, combat loving, military hating, bike riding, political propagandist, pro-big government, marxist, socialist, tea party, capitalist, racist, closet homosexual?

Makes total sense now.

[Francium]

Originally Posted by TracyLynnS

So Chad Mauer ended up dead because he was a pro military, dope selling, draft dodging, political agitating, pot smoking, congressman bribing, blood thirsty, government hating, fox news watching, muscle car enthusiast, elitist, tree hugging, combat loving, military hating, bike riding, political propagandist, pro-big government, marxist, socialist, tea party, capitalist, racist, closet homosexual?

Makes total sense now.

Not a serious reply obviously. The point I made initially is that police departments for the sake of PR and to focus on more clear cut cases have an interest in calling ambiguous circumstances like what surrounded Mauer's death a suicide. Obvious corollaries to that, where public sector bureaucratic interests triumph over the private citizens they're supposed to serve, are also found in education and military to justify their own existence. Cops have no jobs when there is no crime, and cops can justify continual soaking of tax dollars by saying "See, we cleaned up the city!" NYPD is notorious, for example, for fudging their crime statistics. Educators justify continued spending for failed test scores, even though the emphasis on test scores is largely the reason for the failings in public education. (No one reads anything serious, even in the university system, and no one is learning to think on their own.) Military can't justify its existence without some external enemy, most of which are made up or agitated by the very people who employ military forces around the world. None of this is controversial. It's human nature, in fact.

Concerning Mauer, it was probably drugs. White boys who look gay don't hang out in that part of Chicago unless they're involved with drugs. The hypothesis that he went there to troll for gay sex doesn't hold water, because anyone who is gay at that time knew where to look if they wanted to get laid badly enough.

[MegtheEgg86]

Originally Posted by Francium

Military worship is bizarre. No one blasted "teh trO0ps." An awful lot of my friends from the Korean War to present are military. It's amazing how many are bitter or dumbfounded when they realize they put their general health on the line for a government that lied to the public about the realities of geopolitical issues around the world or when Washington fumbled with policies in relation to occupation or with state-sanctioned enemies while casting out their own men doing the fighting. None of this is controversial, and people on this board in particular should understand the dynamic between the nobility and foolhardiness of serving such flaky characters.

But concerning the initial point I made, there's nothing controversial or strange about it. If you want to be employed in a combat regiment, you need wars to justify your job. The US Government isn't going to pay some sergeant more than $2000 per month, along with benefits and pensions, to sit around an office during peacetime when they instead could choose not to resign him and instead hire a private for a third of a sergeant's pay to do the exact job. Now think about that. How is that not "too dumb to know any better"?

I'm not anti-military by any means, and I'm not just saying that. It's basically an observation of a political class that exploits a usually poor or working class segment of the population with boot camp propaganda that "X is an evil group, and they are different as a human than you" when such propaganda is only possible when those trainees never read a book about the very people the government tells them to hate. It's actually sad when you think about it, and an untold number of lives get ruined through pain medication, combat wounds, or death serving interests of a government that, contrary to their feel-good rhetoric, treat them like expendable pawns. Those who confuse "Suport R Tro0ps" with being a lemming only fuel this nonsense and thus are indirectly responsible for ultimately exploitative institutions like military. Full Metal Jacket thematically makes that point clear with people like Pvt. Pyles.

Military is necessary only because of the security dilemma and the fact that Great Powers start **** around the world for no reason whatsoever except that it's the invisible hand to international relations, and militaries need gullible people to carry out those tasks for the sake of a game that is driven by insecurity and immaturity, but must exist only because Great Powers cannot act in any other way. Why? - because Great Powers lie, cheat, and steal, and institutions like the UN can't prevent those traits on most security issues that are at least medium-risk.

And don't presume anything about my relation with military. I'm a military intellectual and like to fight. That doesn't mean I have to have a rose-colored view about institutions that are causal in getting guys faces blown off. (In fact, most military people I know are candid in saying military institutions turn people to lemmings, which is a global view anyway from those on the inside.) The difference between me and most people is I can look at a wounded combat soldier without guilt, since I know the reality of the world. Most just turn a blind eye to such wounded types, pretend they don't exist, and carry on with Fox News propaganda from chimps like Sean Hannity, who fails to realize just how patronizing he comes across to most combat soldiers anyway.

Besides, I'm historically cynical of the pro-military propaganda that goes on nowadays. The only reason why people say that crap, besides the marketing gimmick that comes with it, is there's no draft. Many Americans resented the military during Vietnam even though it was the Johnson Administration, not the military (political over military, again), who escalated the conflict to make a draft necessary.

Historically, countries have had a real mistrust of military institutions, especially Great Powers, since they often caused problems that drug everyone else in the country into a slaughterhouse, or simply made life uncomfortable (an issue Americans have never truly experienced outside of her own revolution and the American Civil War, I might add, relatively speaking). Militaries tend to be popular when they're winning, unpopular when they're losing and have drug everyone else into the conflict with conscription or through colonial conquests (unless it's for the sake of national glory or defense of the homeland territory), and have been seen as having too much power for its own good - or as politicians in multiple countries have said, "Military questions are too important to be carried out by military generals."

Lesson for the day...

Please further my lesson, if you don't mind, by enlightening me on what branch(es) of service you were or are in.

[Necco]

Originally Posted by Francium

Besides, I'm historically cynical of the pro-military propaganda that goes on nowadays. The only reason why people say that crap, besides the marketing gimmick that comes with it, is there's no draft. Many Americans resented the military during Vietnam even though it was the Johnson Administration, not the military (political over military, again), who escalated the conflict to make a draft necessary.

That is not the only reason people say "that crap." On the contrary, many people support military personnel BECAUSE of the stuff that went on after Viet Nam. No matter how much I object to a war, and trust me, I do, I will not allow my friends to be treated the way my parents' friends were when they came home from Nam. There is a very conscious effort to separate the support of veterans from support of the war so that we NEVER, EVER treat a group of returning people who served their country, in many cases involuntarily, nobly and bravely in less than noble situations.

[SheRaaa]

I always thought the Maurer case was so mysterious when I was younger. While it still is very odd, there seem to be a lot of very persistent rumors it was somehow related to drugs.

Here's a 2010 article from a Madison, WI newspaper:

http://www.thedailypage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=49417

This 20 year old case remains unsolved. One of Chad’s friends later informed Darla that Chad had driven to Milwaukee a couple times as part of drug deals. After a local Crime Stoppers segment aired, an anonymous tipper indicated Chad’s death was the result of a drug deal with people from his apartment complex in Madison. These people had previously resided on Chicago’s South Side, but this drug related murder scenario was never proven.

[thinwhiteduke74]

Terrific post, Francium.

Actually, since the 1991 Gulf war "support the troops" and "support the war" have become indivisible. That's what happens when we rely on bumper stickers.

[Necco]

Originally Posted by thinwhiteduke74

Terrific post, Francium.

Actually, since the 1991 Gulf war "support the troops" and "support the war" have become indivisible. That's what happens when we rely on bumper stickers.

Maybe where you live. Certainly not where I live. Of course, I tend not to rely on the backside of cars for my political decisions.

Meanwhile, back at the hall of justice, we were discussing what happened to Chad, not some vast jingoistic conspiracy.

Oh, and his haircut makes him gay? No. That haircut made him trendy. Gay, bi or het, it doesn't matter, this wasn't some sort of sex crime.

[thinwhiteduke74]

As a gay man, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't hit on a guy who shared a haircut with The Karate Kid's Johnny.

[Necco]

Originally Posted by thinwhiteduke74

As a gay man, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't hit on a guy who shared a haircut with The Karate Kid's Johnny.

You sir, have just won the internets for the evening.

But, NPH might disagree with you, since Barney Stinson loved Johnny.

I have to admit I've looked at missing persons photos more than once and thought to myself, god, if I go missing, I hope it's not during an embarrassing hair stage. Shallow, I know, but especially if I had run away, I'd be mortified if my 80s hair was all over the internet.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

Originally Posted by thinwhiteduke74

As a gay man, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't hit on a guy who shared a haircut with The Karate Kid's Johnny.

As a heterosexual female, I woukd have found him attractive back in 1991 or so, when that picture was taken. He was a good looking kid. But I agree. His haircut does not dictate his sexual orientation.

I also lean towards the drug angle. With his history, it makes the most sense. Such a sad story.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

Originally Posted by Necco

Shallow, I know, but especially if I had run away, I'd be mortified if my 80s hair was all over the internet.

I was rocking coke-bottle thick glasses, acne, and an Afro back in the time when Chad went missing. I have literally destroyed most pictures if me during this time. I wholeheartedly echo your sentiments.

[DALLASTEXAN!!]

Originally Posted by LooksLikeCRicci

I was rocking coke-bottle thick glasses, acne, and an Afro back in the time when Chad went missing. I have literally destroyed most pictures if me during this time. I wholeheartedly echo your sentiments.

When I first watched UM I had a mullet perm. I wanted to be a guitar wizard like jimmy page. Unfortunately my mom or dad didn't stop me they encouraged it.

As far as chad this was always a strange case. I think he got set up and robbed. His hair was in style for that time. Sometimes people get too harsh with their opinion.

[DALLASTEXAN!!]

Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86

Please further my lesson, if you don't mind, by enlightening me on what branch(es) of service you were or are in.

Haha no response...I guess Im to dumb to understand the lesson for that day.