Angela Hammond - Girl abducted from phone booth

[Guardian]

Wasn't there something posted on here a while back about a suspect in the other two murders being possibly linked to this case? Maybe I remember wrong, but it seems that was brought up as more than just a theory. Either way, if the police are telling the truth, maybe that person has already been ruled out.

[Oldschooler81]

I really hope something comes of the (relatively) new leads. Actually I mildly disagree with some posts concerning DNA and forensics. Even though it was probably SORTA around at the time, I'm pretty sure it wasn't commonplace until the mid 90s. And even that would probably be more in big city police departments.

The police clearly didn't do as much as they should have (and it is possible they don't want to be embarrased by being so close and so far on a suspect this whole time), but I wonder if they simply didn't have the resources to do so.

It kinda reminds me of the Adam Walsh case. I've read John Walsh's book from the late 90s called Tears of Rage (part autobiography, part development of America's Most Wanted, and mostly in depth about Adam's kidnapping and murder). It's really heartbreaking and can be hard to read in places, but basically John was saying about how archaic and unequipped their local police department was in 1981 in dealing with missing children (largely thanks to him that started changing later in the 80s). And they were from the Miami metro area, which is a big city! Even though most of the cops were well meaning, they just didn't sadly have the technology or the resources to do nearly as much as they should have.

Angela's case could be sorta like that too. In 1991 Clinton might've still been stuck in 1975 technologywise! I sometimes forget the 911 system wasn't even in place everywhere until probably around that same time. That's also one of many reason I never for a second doubted Rob's story about chasing the pickup truck through town. At that time in a little town, it's not unfathomable to think it would've been basically dead with very few if any witnesses.

[CuriousMind90]

Figured I'd bump this to keep interest around
Also:

http://www.newsroom-sheriff.us/2009/...mmerfield.html

I read about this guy and figured I'd mention him. His appearance from the mugshot (beard + mustache, hulky looking) seems to match the description Angie and Rob gave, also his victims all seem to be of a similar appearance to Angie (it mentions in the article that his victims were slender and dark haired), and the fact that this man was targeting and killing women in the Midwest in the late '80s to early 90s.

I mean I'm sure plenty of midwestern men in the early '90s wore a beard and were scruffy looking, BUT this guy's profile thus far (Midwest, bearded, killing '80s and 90s, dark haired, slender women) seems very similar to what a potential suspect might be like. Even if it's NOT him, use this guy as a template for what her abductor may have looked/been like.

This excerpt from the article is especially interesting:

"(Larry Hall) wandered all over the Midwest, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio. There were many times when he took off and we had no idea where he was," Gary Hall said.

Given a description of Chavez, who was about 5 feet, 4 inches, 100-110 pounds with black hair, Gary Hall said, "I'll just say it fits the profile of a lot of his victims. ... He preferred darker hair with a small, athletic build. That's what I've been told since clear back when he first got arrested."

"He would go to these Civil War re-enactments and women around there started popping up dead," said former U.S. attorney Lawrence Beaumont, who prosecuted Larry Hall in U.S. District Court in Urbana for the kidnapping of Roach in Georgetown, a day after a Revolutionary War re-enactment in a nearby state park.

"He could be connected to a number of cases in the Midwest," Beaumont said.

Now, one thing which should be investigated is whether there were any War reenactments in the days/weeks before or after Angela's abduction.

I mean this guy might have NOTHING whatsoever to do with the her disappearance, but he also might be worth looking into given his appearance and the general profile.

The fact that a Green Pickup was used is kind of neither here nor there, at this point--After nearly 20 years, the perp if alive is probably not using the same car. It's a good item for helping narrow down the guy, BUT the perp could have been using a pick up that night which belonged to a friend, or even stolen it.

If I were investigating the case, I would look into the purchase and/or sale of any Chevy or Ford pick up trucks manufactured between say 1966 and 1975. I would also investigate the owners of such cars, and look into whether there were any thefts of a truck matching the perp's truck's description. Keep the area of focus when investigating these sales in the Mid and South West. The owner of the car again doesn't have to be the perpetrator himself--It could have been a friend or family member who was loaning it to him who had or has NO idea what the guy was using the car for. But if it was indeed the perp's car, it makes it a lot easier to narrow down with investigation into the car itself.

The problem is, we the public don't really have all the facts. We have a very vague description of the perp and the car. Was he tall, big built? Or average in height? Short? Long hair, or short hair? Bald? Remember, since 1991 he could've very much changed his appearance--Shaved the beard and cut his hair if it was long, or grew it if it was short. He could've been balding and gone bald, and shaved his beard which would radically change his appearance from how he looked in 1991.

We also should try to build up a psychological profile of the perp. It's unusual that a perpetrator would target someone who was on a phone--For him there's a risk of the person on the other line describing him or hearing him, as did happen. Also, a good question to ask is: Why didn't he wait? He could've easily waited until Angela was off the phone, then abducted her and no one would have had any idea what happened. The fact that he was so bold in this way can mean several things. Either he had done this before and was used to it and confidant he could pull it off; He could simply have been deranged and being in such an insane mental state not simply realized he was putting himself at risk; He could have WANTED to be caught; Or, he could've been assured in some way that he wouldn't be caught.

Also, we should ask ourselves: Was he of average or above average intelligence? A feeling I have--given the UM show, which who knows if it's EXACTLY accurate--is that a guy like the one described would have had a record of some kind prior to Angela's abduction, even if that record was only for petty offenses prior to that--Drunkenness, Robberies, thefts, arson, maybe minor violent crimes (domestic violence, etc). He might have been involved in a rape, perhaps, and his intention was similar to abscond with Angela and rape her--and it went wrong.

There is a chance, however slim, that she might be alive, or at the very least might have lived past that night. If she's alive, he might have taken her very far away, and likely if she's alive, she wouldn't be allowed out much--A virtual prisoner. Personally, I HOPE she's alive. Even if she's spent the last 19 years suffering or living in a situation like the Duggard's, it's better than her being deceased. I hope and pray she's alive.

We should also ask ourselves: Was it his first time doing something like this, or is it more likely he had done this before? If it's the latter, perhaps he had done something like this before but not in Missouri--Perhaps a crime with a similar MO was done in some other nearby state.

Also, factors that should be looked into are: Was he a local? I don't know Missouri at all, or that area, but if they had a local fishing community or something along those lines, one could investigate that. The decal could've been a decoy--to throw suspicion away from him and towards a fishermen type of person, but he may well have really been a fishermen; It should be looked into either way. If he wasn't a local, he probably didn't live TOO far away. He might have lived in Kansas or some other nearby state.

What year approximately was the pick up from--We need a more specific date range than "60s or 70s".

Also, we should try to ascertain if he had followed Angela in the hours, days or weeks prior to the abduction. I've read prior to going to the payphone, Angela was driving with a friend. Would be helpful to note if she or the friend had been followed, even at a distance.

It's important to know if he had selected her prior to that night, or he only got her because of her location (Him circling the parking lot says it's the latter, that he spotted her and decided to go for it. But it would seem he might have been familiar with the area and parking lot). Had he visited the parking lot before that night and waited for the right to opportunity--As in, the "perfect" girl and "perfect" setting to capture a girl? Angela would probably have fit this guy's type in terms of appearance--He might not have taken her simply because she was a woman and it was late.

Sorry for the long post, but I just discovered this case a few days ago and it's really shaken me deeply. I've read about missing person's cases before but this particular story has shaken me much more than any other. I'm near the age now that Angie was when this happened, so it kind of hits home--She was a young girl, and I know girls who are her age, and it scares me for them. I'd like to see this solved, and I'd love to see this evil man meet justice. Even if it's a sad ending, and Angie turns out to be deceased, it's still an ENDING--closure. And her family deserves that at the very least, and society in general deserves to be rid of this guy and men like him.

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by Guardian

Wasn't there something posted on here a while back about a suspect in the other two murders being possibly linked to this case? Maybe I remember wrong, but it seems that was brought up as more than just a theory. Either way, if the police are telling the truth, maybe that person has already been ruled out.

Yes there is alot on this subject in this forum. Simply go back and read it. To sum it up one of the men convicted in Trudy Darbys murder wrote letters to another prisoner ( which where entered into evidence) that talked about killing other women and how if they had disposed of Darby in the same way they never would have been caught. Again there is alot of info if you go back and read. It seems the people posting now are mostly two years behind.

[CuriousMind90]

Originally Posted by kane7474

Yes there is alot on this subject in this forum. Simply go back and read it. To sum it up one of the men convicted in Trudy Darbys murder wrote letters to another prisoner ( which where entered into evidence) that talked about killing other women and how if they had disposed of Darby in the same way they never would have been caught. Again there is alot of info if you go back and read. It seems the people posting now are mostly two years behind.

Didn't the article from April '09 (which mentioned new, possible DNA evidence) say that it was pretty certain to the police that the 2 other similar cases in Missouri in 1991 weren't connected to Angela's--That those guys likely weren't responsible?
I seem to recall her brother saying as much--that to him they weren't the perpetrators.

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by Oldschooler81

I really hope something comes of the (relatively) new leads. Actually I mildly disagree with some posts concerning DNA and forensics. Even though it was probably SORTA around at the time, I'm pretty sure it wasn't commonplace until the mid 90s. And even that would probably be more in big city police departments.

The police clearly didn't do as much as they should have (and it is possible they don't want to be embarrased by being so close and so far on a suspect this whole time), but I wonder if they simply didn't have the resources to do so.

It kinda reminds me of the Adam Walsh case. I've read John Walsh's book from the late 90s called Tears of Rage (part autobiography, part development of America's Most Wanted, and mostly in depth about Adam's kidnapping and murder). It's really heartbreaking and can be hard to read in places, but basically John was saying about how archaic and unequipped their local police department was in 1981 in dealing with missing children (largely thanks to him that started changing later in the 80s). And they were from the Miami metro area, which is a big city! Even though most of the cops were well meaning, they just didn't sadly have the technology or the resources to do nearly as much as they should have.

Angela's case could be sorta like that too. In 1991 Clinton might've still been stuck in 1975 technologywise! I sometimes forget the 911 system wasn't even in place everywhere until probably around that same time. That's also one of many reason I never for a second doubted Rob's story about chasing the pickup truck through town. At that time in a little town, it's not unfathomable to think it would've been basically dead with very few if any witnesses.

Again there are no new leads. Two years ago police claimed to have "something" in the way of dna evidence but obviously it didnt pan out. This case is not like the Adam walsh case because Adam was taken some time before his mother even knew he was gone. Where as with this case we have an eye witness who gets a good description of the kidnappers vehicle to police within minutes of the crime. It doesn't take high tech equipment or special csi science to alert every law enforcement agency in a 100 mile radius and have every available officer out searching for the vehilce.

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by CuriousMind90

Didn't the article from April '09 (which mentioned new, possible DNA evidence) say that it was pretty certain to the police that the 2 other similar cases in Missouri in 1991 weren't connected to Angela's--That those guys likely weren't responsible?
I seem to recall her brother saying as much--that to him they weren't the perpetrators.

Ya thats what they say, but no one ever gives any reasons as to how they can be ruled out. Therefore in my mind they are not ruled out.

[CuriousMind90]

Originally Posted by kane7474

Ya thats what they say, but no one ever gives any reasons as to how they can be ruled out. Therefore in my mind they are not ruled out.

Is there any mugshots of Charney & Rush out there?
Would be interesting to see if they fit the appearance that Angela described.
Also--
If there were two of them, why did only one of them come out to take Angela? Why would the other one have waited in the car? And wouldn't Angela have seen the other man when her kidnapper flashed the flashlight inside the car--she said he was looking for something. Surely she would've at least seen the outline of another man with the light on the interior of the car. Unless there was another man, not in the car but taking her from another angle, and she didn't see him.

There is one reason however, why it makes sense that there might have been another man:

Let's say the guy gets her in the pick up cab, she could've tried opening the passenger side door to jump out. However, if there was two men in the car and she was sandwiched between them, that would've made that pretty much impossible.

[CuriousMind90]

Does anyone think there's any possibility that maybe she's alive?

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by CuriousMind90

Does anyone think there's any possibility that maybe she's alive?

No way she's still alive. She was abducted in her teens and there's no doubt in my mind if she had a way to escape/get help she would have done so a long time ago. I could see if she were abducted as an infant or toddler, but I think she was too old to be suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. Does anyone know what became of her boyfriend Rob?

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by CuriousMind90

Is there any mugshots of Charney & Rush out there?
Would be interesting to see if they fit the appearance that Angela described.
Also--
If there were two of them, why did only one of them come out to take Angela? Why would the other one have waited in the car? And wouldn't Angela have seen the other man when her kidnapper flashed the flashlight inside the car--she said he was looking for something. Surely she would've at least seen the outline of another man with the light on the interior of the car. Unless there was another man, not in the car but taking her from another angle, and she didn't see him.

There is one reason however, why it makes sense that there might have been another man:

Let's say the guy gets her in the pick up cab, she could've tried opening the passenger side door to jump out. However, if there was two men in the car and she was sandwiched between them, that would've made that pretty much impossible.

Again, yes the mugshots are in this forum or maybe one of the other Hammond forums and Chaney looks like a creepy bearded filthy man.
If you remember the Trudy Darby case she also described on strange man hanging around outside when she was on the phone with her son. However we now know for certain there was more then one abductor in that case. Angela at first had her back to the truck and was talking on the phone.

Its very likely she didnt see the other person if there was one. You have to wonder how one man, by himself could have gotten her in the truck and somehow managed to keep her in there while he has to get to the drivers seat and operate the vehilcle. You may say " well he knocked her out". Not true because Rob heard her scream. Now keep in mind he has very little time to get her in the truck, keep her from getting out and take off as Rob was at the scene in a matter of minutes. This is why I think there had to be another person involved

[CuriousMind90]

Originally Posted by kane7474

Again, yes the mugshots are in this forum or maybe one of the other Hammond forums and Chaney looks like a creepy bearded filthy man.
If you remember the Trudy Darby case she also described on strange man hanging around outside when she was on the phone with her son. However we now know for certain there was more then one abductor in that case. Angela at first had her back to the truck and was talking on the phone.

Its very likely she didnt see the other person if there was one. You have to wonder how one man, by himself could have gotten her in the truck and somehow managed to keep her in there while he has to get to the drivers seat and operate the vehilcle. You may say " well he knocked her out". Not true because Rob heard her scream. Now keep in mind he has very little time to get her in the truck, keep her from getting out and take off as Rob was at the scene in a matter of minutes. This is why I think there had to be another person involved

Went back and saw the photos...they're very creepy looking men, and reading Rush's letter...he deserves to fry. Disturbing.

The only thing we need is to find this Cheevers, Parel and Marshel. Also, getting some 1991 era photos of Rush would be great.

It almost sounds like there was a whole group of serial killers, like working together in MO in the early '90s..which is so creepy and tragic.

And I'm thinking the Pick up might have belonged to Cheevers, Parel or Marshel. It might not necessarily have belonged to the brothers.

I hope that Rush & Chaney were the perps, because at least then I'd know her murderers are behind bars and not out loose. Her case still breaks my heart because they robbed two innocent lives that night and shattered a family, and she looks like she was such a sweet person. She deserved to live a long life and have a beautiful baby.

[CuriousMind90]

I want to keep this case active around here until we get a resolution. Sure, maybe Rush & Charney did it, but we don't know for sure. And when Angela's brother posted here, he seemed pretty certain that they didn't do it, and I'd think he'd probably privy to more information than we are unless one of us is a member of the Clinton PD.

I want some resolution in this case, whether it's her remains being found so she can be given a proper burial, or whether it's a conviction. The poor girl and her family deserve closure and justice.

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by CuriousMind90

Went back and saw the photos...they're very creepy looking men, and reading Rush's letter...he deserves to fry. Disturbing.

The only thing we need is to find this Cheevers, Parel and Marshel. Also, getting some 1991 era photos of Rush would be great.

It almost sounds like there was a whole group of serial killers, like working together in MO in the early '90s..which is so creepy and tragic.

And I'm thinking the Pick up might have belonged to Cheevers, Parel or Marshel. It might not necessarily have belonged to the brothers.

I hope that Rush & Chaney were the perps, because at least then I'd know her murderers are behind bars and not out loose. Her case still breaks my heart because they robbed two innocent lives that night and shattered a family, and she looks like she was such a sweet person. She deserved to live a long life and have a beautiful baby.

I have been saying this since I read the letters from him. Why where these other people never brought up on charges?? Why was Rush not offered any kind of deal by prosecution to go into details about the other women he spoke of or to finger the other people involved? Lots of unanswered questions here.

[kane7474]

Originally Posted by CuriousMind90

I want to keep this case active around here until we get a resolution. Sure, maybe Rush & Charney did it, but we don't know for sure. And when Angela's brother posted here, he seemed pretty certain that they didn't do it, and I'd think he'd probably privy to more information than we are unless one of us is a member of the Clinton PD.

I want some resolution in this case, whether it's her remains being found so she can be given a proper burial, or whether it's a conviction. The poor girl and her family deserve closure and justice.

This case is very much active around here. Notice this thread goes back to 2005. It has been discussed and debated every which way you could imagine and the bottom line is that I don't beileve we will ever know what actually happened unless someone who knows the killer comes forward ( kinda of like the unabomber case) and spills the beans.

I realize Angela's brother doesnt seem to see Rush and Chaney as suspects but again he gives no reasons as to why. I wouldnt trust anything from the Clinton pd as they are notoriously inept. I have a good friend that was a Henry county sherrifs deputy and was involved in the search for Angela the next morning. He basically blames the Clinton pd for bothching this case and beleive me he has insider knowledge.

It seemed that when the police did speak about the case two years ago they eluded the killer might be a local and they may have dna to link him. I dont beileve this at all. Clinton was small town then. Everyone knows everyone but oddly No one recognized this truck. I have no doubts the killer or killers where not local to that area.