Cindy James

[Smokescreen]

Originally posted by TheCars1986

Doubtful. Who would have agreed to do it? Where did the money come from?

Yeah, that theory was just a long shot, however, if someone if desperate enough, they'd be able to find someone willing to do it. The Sharon Lopatka case comes to mind.

As for money, from what I can remember, Cindy's ex-husband was a doctor (or psychologist?) .. in any case, he had money and maybe she got some of that out of a divorce settlement?

Anyway, the point I'm making is that Cindy (from what I've read and heard) was tired of no one believing her, so maybe she decided to hire someone to kill her so she could prove her point.

Is this theory a stretch? Of course.
Is it within the realm of possibility? Could very well be.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by Smokescreen

Anyway, the point I'm making is that Cindy (from what I've read and heard) was tired of no one believing her, so maybe she decided to hire someone to kill her so she could prove her point.

With this in mind, are you saying that Cindy was in fact getting attacked by an unknown assailant, or that she was making everything up on her own and went a step further to play up the attacks?

[cordwainer1453]

Why would she hire someone to kill herself? Why not just have them hurt you in some physical way? That would prove that someone "existed" the same way having someone kill her would.

[TheCars1986]

Remember how Cindy tried to prove to her friends that she was being harassed? She spent the night at her friend Agnes's house because she was scared. Conveniently when Agnes and her husband are in bed, Cindy decides to talk a late night walk with a dog (why would you go out late at night if you were being harassed and attacked on a repeated basis) and then upon her return the house was on fire. Nothing ever happened when Cindy was around (as in the same room) with other people. Big giveaway that she was doing these things to herself. She never once, to my knowledge, gave a description of her attacker/s or provide anyone with information about who they could have possibly been. All signs point to Cindy.

[Smokescreen]

Originally posted by The Cars1986 With this in mind, are you saying that Cindy was in fact getting attacked by an unknown assailant, or that she was making everything up on her own and went a step further to play up the attacks?

The latter - she went a step further to play up the attacks.

Keep in mind, this is just a guess, I could be totally wrong.

However, given the irrational nature of Ms. James' actions, it could very well may have been within the realm of possibility.

I gotta watch the UM segment again - and there's a really interesting piece that was broadcast on W5, complete with that creepy answering machine message. (someone else mentioned it in an earlier post)

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by Smokescreen

The latter - she went a step further to play up the attacks.

Keep in mind, this is just a guess, I could be totally wrong.

However, given the irrational nature of Ms. James' actions, it could very well may have been within the realm of possibility.

I gotta watch the UM segment again - and there's a really interesting piece that was broadcast on W5, complete with that creepy answering machine message. (someone else mentioned it in an earlier post)

The original NBC version has about 5 minutes of extra interview footage in it, that for some reason Lifetime edited it out. IIRC, it makes Cindy's story that much more unbelievable.

[chrissysnowbarr]

Lifetime re-ran this today. I'm a little unclear from the thread: was her sister's book released? I can't find anything other than the excerpt.

This is by far one of the most baffling cases on UM. I've been stalked and harassed and in one case assaulted, and what was worse was it was a gang of three who all backed each other up...no YOUR the stalker, not them. I always held firm to I know what I saw, but as I tended to travel alone that doesn't mean much to other people. Let's put it this way: it was in no way as severe as what allegedly happened to this poor woman, if it did. BUT having been through my own hell I'd like to add a few thoughts:

1) I have PTSD for life now, as well as anxiety. I had 3 nervous breakdowns, while mine was less severe it also took less time (4 vs 6 years). As someone who has been there, I can completely believe that unless she started as a severely disabled person (someone with some mental disorder, she doesn't appear to have, unless it onset), going through what was said to happen WOULD drive her insane like the mental doctor related. It seemed by the end she was beyond gone mentally.

This could theoretically mean a few things: stuff happened and she snapped from having no one believe her she did things like the fire to prove it, or that she did kill herself but was being watched and the 'stalker(s)' did the finale. I heard blondie talk, I don't buy anyone could tie themselves up while drugged that badly or dying...frankly I don't think I could do it today if you challenged me and gave me a quick google search.

Given the scene wasn't treated as a murder, it could also mean she was drugged, something spiked. Look up Dorothy Killagallen, still unsolved itself. It is believed whoever killed her (major shade at the boyfriend) put something in her glass of water he knew she had out by her bed every night. If Cindy was sincerely being watched or stalked, in 6 years X could learn her habits, its theoretically possible.

2) She painted her car and moved house (its not clear how fast this was done or what her job was at that point, I'd like to read the sister's info 1991 books don't seem reliable)...given the limited info I have she probably had to do this with a similar job/relatives and maybe driving to a body shop, etc. If someone was stalking her, that doesn't seem like it'd give them the shake. I could see that not being enough to give her safety.

3) The dog walk thing is mentioned by the one author and a lot of people here as 'stupid'. Well when you're in that state of mind you do stupid things, especially if you, for whatever irrational reason, feel like maybe you have a respite. I kept going out alone after this crap began, and sometimes it would end very badly for me. I didn't have a choice and didn't want to live in fear. On the flipside I've been known to go out for a walk to some local place (gas station, whatever) late at night alone, it feels safer at night because who would be watching you at night? Obviously I have stopped both behaviors, but she didn't. I can believe she did that, and if she did why she would (the literal scare her to death, this person was driving her to mental illness regardless of her state of affairs before hand.)

The flaw for Cindy was she never told her parents, friends, sister (going off segment) what her claim was...the 'oh I'll tell you later but not now.' If she had we might have more to say....it might give more clues or logic. Everyone has apparently limited it to a man, one man. It could be a group of people, it could be a pair, it could be one gender or both...you don't know. There's not enough info, its a fallacy to assume its one male if real.

I think hiring someone to kill her is more fanciful than 'why are you walking your dog at 3am?' I do believe she could have purposely OD'd, then the stalker(s) tied her up like 'ta-da'. This is my current theory barring any further info: the stalker(s) started out very real, they/the stalker could have theoretically been real to the end, even if they/them (I'll just say the, but let it be known I think what amount or gender the stalker is is undetermined.) Like my stalkers, her's could have petered off eventually, already having driven her to beyond help. By petered off I mean no longer physically stalking her, but continuing to harass her in a more restrained manner (letters, phone calls, no longer physically being there.) Whether they continued unabated or not, she was suffering from mental disorder(s) due to the years long harassment. This is where it gets murky: either she tried to OD or accidentally OD'd (I'd be taking all the pills by that point, wouldn't you?), OR she was drugged by someone(s) watching her. She dies. Either the killer(s) succeeded and tie her up to show off, or I can not account for the tying up in this scenario. I guess if she was TRYING to kill herself via OD, she could have tied herself up to prove her point and make sure she didn't fail...but I still find that hard to believe.

I do want to account for one more thing nobody seems to work with: why did this never show up when someone was around? Well I was assaulted out in public, conveniently where no cameras were and it was just me and the one doing the assaulting. That person had their friends at the event, just not in the moment. Their friends all backed them up, even people who could not have possibly seen it (I looked around like 'isn't anyone going to stop this stuff seriously?') To the bitter end they'd crow how I assaulted them, even though medically it was impossible (sorry for the vagueness, I protect my privacy with a steel shield to prevent further stalking.) So for me to say this happened, when nobody really seen it, and there was no physical evidence for either claim, can be easily doubted by some impartial party. I did tell one such ruling party a very key description of an item in the assault, and the impartial party asked how I knew that to the assaulter, and they shrugged it off until the impartial party no longer cared or listened to me.

Stalkers don't do stuff easily seen. The main ones would have the outer ones do their dirty work online and such (make death threats) so without subpoenaing emails and phone records it could not be proven. Even when I had a pretty good link (two of the people signed affidavits for each other, then claimed they didn't know each other at all) they were smooth and talked it away. The harassed/stalked tends to be the person losing their mind in the corner, bawling their eyes out, keeping their stories straight. The harassers/stalkers tend to be the smooth talkers who act calm and cool headed regardless. To me this is a thing to consider with the fire incident: yeah she had a weird claim (dog walking at 3am) and she was alone down stairs, but what better time to set her up as the crazy person?

YES on the flip side she could have done it, just as I could have done the fake things alleged against me. But you guys have ruled out the possibility she was targeted when alone because what better time? Keep assaulting her/setting fires when she's alone, and people will keep questioning her til she loses her mind. My stalkers said openly they didn't want to harm me (despite death threats) they just wanted me to kill myself. Unlucky for them that's not my style, though I have a very unnatural resolve, a normal person would have probably done as they wished a year in.

I just cringe to see things dismissed outright. I can't listen to those phone messages, it'd destroy me right now. BUT everyone just writes off what she's done as 'oh alone: obviously she did it to herself.' I'm quite devastated it was never really investigated as a murder. And from the segment a real big flaw shows up: for whatever reason, she continued living alone with occasional interludes with friends. Had she lived in a monitored facility, or somewhere with cameras and all (probably expensive in 1991) it would have ended immediately. Note there apparently was not incidents when at the hospital stays.

I wonder if monitoring her grave would have shown anything (a continual visitor), or if testing was done now on her or the notes if they'd show anything (if they could, I don't know if the notes have been stored where others fingerprints couldn't get on them.) Now you could easily get a note done without putting your fingerprints all over it, but I wonder about DNA...maybe a hair in the glue or something. It may be too late, but it'd be interesting ya know? Like it may make it look more 'she did it herself' or 'she was stalked'.

Same with the nylons and rope, really no DNA run on them? Of course the police station would never do it without ruling it a murder, but that again if stored properly may reveal some stuff. If you get no other DNA or anything on it, then maybe we can work with the 'tie yourself up' theory.

The biggest flaw I see is people look at this rationally, as what would you do today, you with no stalkers or mental illnesses? Let alone you with no mental illnesses brought on by stalking?

I don't see why that neighbor would lie. She was a neighbor, wouldn't she know who was in the area? And she said there was a mysterious guy who just stood there and watched the fire.

I'm not a detective nor do I play one on TV. But I thought sharing my thoughts may be of importance to fellow arm chair detectives. And maybe the family if they haven't looked at it from this angle. I know I hid what was going on to me for so long because its horrifying and embarrassing. Not to mention the few family members I had told me to dismiss it in ways that would not make it end (never use the internet again ever, etc.) Everything I'm hearing here makes me go 'I get why she did that'. A stalker would know she had a PI and a rig done up in her home.

[TracyLynnS]

The poster upthread, purplerose, is Cindy James' sister. Publication of the book has been put on hold for now, but you can read an excerpt of it on her website:

http://www.melaniehack.com/excerpt

[chrissysnowbarr]

Thanks! Someone back in the thread said it came out in 2007 so I was unsure.

Purplerose if you check in you may like to know its pretty easy to publish a book these days, of course that is if it is written and you are not being threatened or anything. Easiest one would be Createspace on Amazon or Lulu.com but they both take a nice chunk of the profit. If you'd like more advice you can always message me, I have done work in that field.

[LooksLikeCRicci]

Another option would be Kickstarter. If it can bring Veronica Mars back from the dead, it could get a book about Cindy published...

[chrissysnowbarr]

Well doing a book these days is quite cheap, I've used fancier things and only paid out $100, sometimes a little more for an ISBN. I think Createspace covers the ISBN and has no fee(?) Its very easy, you have a pdf of the book and pdf of the cover and voila.

Even making covers isn't that hard or costly. If she needed help I'd be happy to help her. But she doesn't even need my help, trust me I've seen some really crappy writers writing stupid novels in series because its so easy to self publish these days.

Another really cheap way is go for a ebook, via something like kindle direct publishing (but it can be read on any device). I know that one has nothing up front cost wise. Whatever she chose, once it was up she'd start making a profit...so it'd probably easily defer any costs. I think having it on Amazon is sadly most important these days. I know its where I looked based on that one comment.

[chrissysnowbarr]

createspace.com/Products/Book/ (I'm too new to post a url I guess)

Yup no fees unless you need some help. You can wield paintshop and make a pdf you're pretty much in.

[TracyLynnS]

Originally Posted by chrissysnowbarr

Thanks!

You're welcome! Thank you for sharing all that info on self publishing. Back in the day, I wanted to be a writer and even got a "Future Author" award when I was kid, but I always got sidetracked and I'd end up throwing away old unfinished stuff I'd find years later in my notebooks. lol

Excellent first post, BTW! Very generous of you to share that with us.

[Smokescreen]

Originally posted by chrissysnowbar I wonder if monitoring her grave would have shown anything (a continual visitor), or if testing was done now on her or the notes if they'd show anything (if they could, I don't know if the notes have been stored where others fingerprints couldn't get on them.) Now you could easily get a note done without putting your fingerprints all over it, but I wonder about DNA...maybe a hair in the glue or something. It may be too late, but it'd be interesting ya know? Like it may make it look more 'she did it herself' or 'she was stalked'.

Same with the nylons and rope, really no DNA run on them? Of course the police station would never do it without ruling it a murder, but that again if stored properly may reveal some stuff. If you get no other DNA or anything on it, then maybe we can work with the 'tie yourself up' theory.

Good thinking! Those are good ideas - especially running a DNA test on the rope