LaDonna Morrow's mom Pat Farmer kidnaps Jared

[justins5256]

Am I the only one who doesn't find these recent revelations surprising?

Abduction scenarios involving non-custodial parents, grandparents or other caregivers are seldom cut and dry, even if UM presents them that way.

Obviously, the abductors have reasons (whether rational or not is debatable) for doing what they do in these situations. While it's easy to judge and assume that the UM presentation is on target, who really knows?

These cases involve family dynamics that we will never be privy to. For that reason, I have a hard time casting judgment on what some of these grandparents did. From a legal standpoint, what they did is wrong. Beyond that, who knows?

[leafygreens]

Originally Posted by yuppielawyer

It sounds like it was Pat Farmer's daughter--LaDonna's sister--that helped with the abduction. There's really no doubt in my mind that LaDonna and Jared were the victims here. As soon as I hear accusations of ritual child sex abuse complete with satanic rituals and child sacrifice, I am 99% sure that it is a bunch of hooey. The number of innocent people who went to prison based on those fabrications--and the number of children who were practically brainwashed into believing it happened to them--is staggering.

When someone cries "Satanic abuse!" I know they're making up the accusations. It's a moral panic just like the witch trials. You would think people learn from history but sometimes not.

[TripleG]

Here's what I'll say. Lets assume Ladonna is a bad mother, did drugs, and was neglectful. That still doesn't excuse Pat for what she did. If anything, her behavior makes me less shocked that Ladonna is screwed up.

If all that stuff about Ladonna was true, then why didn't Pat bring that stuff up? Why did she go the extra mile to accuse her of molestation & devil worship? Drug use & Neglect should be enough and puts her 100% in the right, again, assuming what is being said about Ladonna in this thread is true. But by doing what she did, it only makes her out to be the bad one and puts the law on Ladonna's side.

Lets just say they're both nutty buddies and hope that the kid turned out OK in spite of it all.

[Eire]

Originally Posted by TripleG

Here's what I'll say. Lets assume Ladonna is a bad mother, did drugs, and was neglectful. That still doesn't excuse Pat for what she did. If anything, her behavior makes me less shocked that Ladonna is screwed up.

If all that stuff about Ladonna was true, then why didn't Pat bring that stuff up? Why did she go the extra mile to accuse her of molestation & devil worship? Drug use & Neglect should be enough and puts her 100% in the right, again, assuming what is being said about Ladonna in this thread is true. But by doing what she did, it only makes her out to be the bad one and puts the law on Ladonna's side.

Lets just say they're both nutty buddies and hope that the kid turned out OK in spite of it all.

Exactly. The ends just didn't justify the means. Why trump up more accusations and subject a child to that nonsense? IMHO, they are both as bad as each other.

[economistman192]

Originally Posted by mphs95

I got the impression while watching this segment that Pat Farmer was a controlling sort who felt it was her way or no way. LaDonna rebelling and doing her thing went against her sensibilities and ticked her off. Getting Jared was her way of raising a child "right" and to get back at her daughter. That's my opinion at least.

Some parents are pathological narcissists...LaDonna said in the episode that she and her mother were friends as long as she went along with her mother's ideas. When she left her marriage, her mother didn't approve of her choice and decided to punish her. I wonder what happened to Pat Farmer. If I were her daughter, I would have made her life very uncomfortable...if the police wouldn't do anything, I would have sued her in civil court for damages, taking everything she had down to the chewing cum wrappers in her purse - even if I lost I would have dragged her through it for my day in court.

This case and the other evil grandmother/grandparents case (forgot the name at the moment) that UM covered make me sick. And in both cases, all the grandparents have to say is "Satanic Cult" and it works like dollar bills. Are those cults really that common and does no one think to look at the accuser as the satanic one?

[kolson82]

If I recall, there was an era there for a bit where it seemed that blaming things on cults or satanism was all the rage. Not that it didn't happen, but it did seem to be an all-too-easy fall back for people who wanted to make accusations or even for the police trying to label a crime.

[economistman192]

Originally Posted by kolson82

If I recall, there was an era there for a bit where it seemed that blaming things on cults or satanism was all the rage. Not that it didn't happen, but it did seem to be an all-too-easy fall back for people who wanted to make accusations or even for the police trying to label a crime.

I think you are absolutely right. I remember reading a book that I bought at the supermarket when my family was shopping called, "Michele Remembers", it must be out of print now but this was during the 80's. It was a woman who in her therapy sessions recalled her family being involved in a Satanic cult. It would be interesting to find out if anything in the book was corroborated, but some of the things she described were just so out of control, hard to forget to this day. I think there were people on Phil Donahue and the other talk shows who were talking about it more, and there are quite a few UM episodes where the speculation was that it may have been a satanic cult. it seems to be a short hand for evil, and scares everyone to death.

I think maybe there is less of it now then there was then. It's one thing for a child to say they have been molested, but these grandmothers who coach their grandkids into talking about Satan and pentagrams, it seems so ludicrous that the judge wouldn't investigate further or throw the whole thing out. I mean, come on, how many Satanists can their be? But maybe in some parts of the country it is more prevalent. I had a huge fight with my mother when I was in high school during the 80's because some friends asked me to play Dungeons and Dragons and I think the Satanic Cult fear made her freak out and beg me not to.

[TheCars1986]

I'm kind of amazed that there are apologists for the grandmother. I totally understand that UM left a lot of information out of the segment, and that in Pat Farmer's mind she was doing the "right thing", but that still does not make what she did excuseable. The most glaring point is that by all accounts, Jared's father was a good father and a stand up guy. So if LaDonna really was an unfit mother, why not help the father get custody? And when the father called BS on Pat Farmer's story, she started to accuse him of satanism! I have no sympathy for her, because the whole "satanic" angle she made up should speak volumes about her mindset and her character.

[MegtheEgg86]

Originally Posted by economistman192

I think you are absolutely right. I remember reading a book that I bought at the supermarket when my family was shopping called, "Michele Remembers", it must be out of print now but this was during the 80's. It was a woman who in her therapy sessions recalled her family being involved in a Satanic cult. It would be interesting to find out if anything in the book was corroborated, but some of the things she described were just so out of control, hard to forget to this day.

I seem to remember a series of debunkings throughout the '90s concerning a lot of things that were claimed in that book.

There's also a pretty definitive article by a Wiccan police officer who has written multiple books for law enforcement about Wicca and other forms of paganism. After studying the book and doing his own research, he pretty well puffed the card house down:

http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.htm...&c=whs&id=4349


I seem to think Michelle Smith's psychiatrist eventually married her as well.

[bugnpinky]

When I googled the names I came up with interesting info...FB being the most interesting.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by bugnpinky

When I googled the names I came up with interesting info...FB being the most interesting.

Care to share what info you found?

[MegtheEgg86]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Care to share what info you found?

Curiosity got the best of me, so I looked Ladonna up on FB myself. There are photos of both Pat and Ladonna's sister Amanda, as well as Jerad, and they're all recent. Looks like they're all pretty happy, but there's no telling anything from a picture--nor is it anyone's business, I suppose.

I pretty much agree with what justin posted above. We'll never be privy to the intricacies and details, and that's fine.

I do personally believe there's a bit of truth on both sides, though. Pat may have kidnapped her own grandson, but Ladonna's made some mistakes, too. I have a much easier time reconciling that in my mind than Pat simply being a domineering lunatic and Ladonna being completely beyond reproach.

[AeroMeg]

Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86

Curiosity got the best of me, so I looked Ladonna up on FB myself. There are photos of both Pat and Ladonna's sister Amanda, as well as Jerad, and they're all recent. Looks like they're all pretty happy, but there's no telling anything from a picture--nor is it anyone's business, I suppose.

I pretty much agree with what justin posted above. We'll never be privy to the intricacies and details, and that's fine.

I do personally believe there's a bit of truth on both sides, though. Pat may have kidnapped her own grandson, but Ladonna's made some mistakes, too. I have a much easier time reconciling that in my mind than Pat simply being a domineering lunatic and Ladonna being completely beyond reproach.

Jerad and both her other son's have fb's as well..

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86

Curiosity got the best of me, so I looked Ladonna up on FB myself. There are photos of both Pat and Ladonna's sister Amanda, as well as Jerad, and they're all recent. Looks like they're all pretty happy, but there's no telling anything from a picture--nor is it anyone's business, I suppose.

Nice to know that everyone seems to be happy and fine these days. I try to look these people up on FB and I always come up with nothing.

[spark19]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Nice to know that everyone seems to be happy and fine these days. I try to look these people up on FB and I always come up with nothing.

I hope that this is OK... http://www.facebook.com/ladonna.chew