Angela Hammond - Girl abducted from phone booth

[bell83]

I've had the transmission in my car go. For several months, it was slipping, and then one night, it just went. It cut out at 30 miles an hour and did nothing but redline the engine while I coasted to a stop. If the transmission was going (as mine was) prior to that night, it's entirely plausible that he caused the transmission to fail when following the truck.

Here we go, 'round the Mulberry bush...once again...

People, it's highly doubtful that the police decided "Well, let's just question Rob and his family and call it a day." And for those who seem to think that the backwoods country cops will simply sweep this stuff under the rug, think about this: I live in a rural area in upstate New York (Not five minutes north of NYC, the real upstate, which is north of Albany). We have had several murders, kidnappings, and crimes of the like. Guess what. It isn't just the locals that investigate that stuff. The State Police do, as well. BCI is there. In some cases, the FBI is there, too. So the chances that all of these types of law enforcement organization would be in bed with a nobody like Rob? I'd have to call them pretty remote. And the chances that all of these groups would be inept, Keystone Kops-esque, investigators? I'd have to call that pretty remote, too.

We're not even beating a dead horse, anymore. We're beating an unrecognizable puddle of clotted blood and meat.

[slasherman]

Originally Posted by mwcarolina

"Angela said she was going to her friend." To who? Rob! Everybody in Rob's family is not credible witnesses. If Angela was observed after the party I want to know who the witnesses are. Angela's friend could have been Rob's secret lover for all I know. Just speculation, but what I want is believable witnesses not connected to Rob or Angela. She was alive 2 hours after she allegedly drove Rob home.
jeez, Slasherman, why dont you join up in the investigation and put Rob to death and then when you find out he didnt do it, feel guilty the rest of your life and be sued by Rob's family!!!! Give me a break!!!!! i am SURE the police investigated and talked with the FRIEND!!!!! Just because the segment did NOT show it does NOT mean it's false!!!!!
I think Rob fitted his story after what had happened. His car probably broke down so he fitted that into a fictive story.
Ok, smart guy, so how was the blood cleaned up?? how has the body NOT been found? how is it that Rob made up a GREAT story like he did??? These dont fit, what's the motive???
I'm 80% that Rob did it, but it still 20% possibility that she was taken by a unknown abductor. So I think police should investigate both possibilities.
the police DID investigate Rob and CLEARED him!!!!! i am sure they spoke with witnesses, just because you and others havent heard this does NOT mean they didnt speak with them.

Police did a ****ty job in my opinion.
Why clear a man that was the last one to see Angela?
Rob was the the last one to see her and speak with her.
Why clear a man which had the motive and the opportunity?
A pregnant girlfriend, seen arguing many times. From they left the party to Rob call the police, 4 hours?
Why clear a man that have an almost unbelievable story to tell?
Bogeyman, phone call, not calling police, car breaking down and so on...

Police cleared Rob cause he passed the polygraph and they believed his story. Thats why this case has never been solved. The same with Jon Benet Ramsey case but the other way around, where police concentrated only on the family.
In Angela's case Police swallowed the abduction story to easy and forgot to look at other possibilities. Rob became a witness not a suspect, big mistake.

[Cursiorandcursior]

At what point did the transmission get damaged? How far did the forward progress continue? Did the police disassemble the transmission and shift linkage?

If the latter was not done, this investigation was not complete.

As to the child support matter, a typical amount of support today can run into the many hundreds of dollars; $400 or $500 per month and it will be collected through any means possible including garnishment, attachments of all assets, and is based on formula devised by the Missouri Supreme Court. There have in fact people murdered over motives to avoid child support obligations.

I'm seeing a lot "I believes" "assumes" and "am sure" that the police did this or did that. We can't know that unless we have the police file in front of us.

And this will be a dead horse once more. Polygraphs are notoriously unreliable. No investigation can "clear" someone on the basis of a polygraph and anytime a family provides an alibi it should be looked at with great skepticism. The actual time line is the single most important tool to identify what REALLY happened. The people LAST with the victim are the FIRST to suspect; always; especially family and close friends and enemies who have a motive for one reason for another. At least 85% of murders such as this come from family members or close friends.

And this coming on the heels of the Darby and Kenney cases (which I consider as possibly related), is a further red flag to me. It is always easy to concoct a boogeyman such as a roaming bushy headed serial murderer than it is to look to the most likely suspects.

But just to reiterate: Can anyone answer the question? Was the transmission and linkage disassembled?

[SageSlowdive]

Here we go again...

ROB IS INNOCENT. Now move on to another theory.

[Cursiorandcursior]

Originally Posted by SageSlowdive

Here we go again...

ROB IS INNOCENT. Now move on to another theory.

That's stikes me more as a belief system; not a proven fact.

I really asked a very simple question. Was the transmission and shift linkage disassembled? The police should be able to respond to that question with an up or down answer. I suppose I could pick up the phone and ask them myself if necessary but surely someone knows here since they are so certain of his uninvolvement.

[slasherman]

Originally Posted by SageSlowdive

Here we go again...

ROB IS INNOCENT. Now move on to another theory.

"Beating a dead horse" cannot be used in this case. Until you or other people produce credible evidence of Rob being innocent he will be a suspect. Not like "Rob looked like a nice and credible person in the UM sequence" kind of evidence. Hard evidence like credible witnesses, airtight alibi, forensic and so on...
Rob was the last person to see Angela alive that is according to Rob's own story. So he puts himself right in the middle of the crime. Either you know something that "we" don't know or you are just being stubborn....

[bell83]

Rob was cleared by investigators. Not us. Nobody on this site (either those who are against the Rob theory, those who are for the Rob theory, or those who don't give a damn) was involved with the investigation. Because of this, no one can give you details, here. If you want details, I suggest the same thing I suggested to Onlooker: contact the local and state law enforcement on it. They can tell you why Rob was deemed innocent, and you can run your theories about shoddy police work by them.

This does qualify as beating a dead horse, because the same questions keep getting asked, and the same answers keep getting given, with neither side accepting either.

[Cursiorandcursior]

At the risk of sounding repetitious it is in fact possible for the police to do an incomplete or poor investigation. Surely everyone would agree with that.

Let me pose a hypothetical question. If I were to contact the Clinton police department and ask them if they duplicated the transmission failure or did not disassemble it but took the version given as fact not needing confirmation would it make any difference?

I would call everyone's attention to all of this hullabaloo about Toyota "unintended acceleration." When it was all said and done not a single case of this problem could be attributed to the electronics as was first feared. Not even one. The floor mats and gas pedal were modified. That was it.

I'm just asking. Did the police duplicate the problem? Did they disassemble the transmission?

[MegtheEgg86]

Originally Posted by Cursiorandcursior

I'm just asking. Did the police duplicate the problem? Did they disassemble the transmission?

It's already been touched on, but Clinton, MO is a relatively small town, undoubtedly with a relatively small police department. Also, bear in mind this is the early '90s. Perhaps the police simply didn't have the resources to devote to such an experiment (not to mention how dangerous it would be) or an extensive investigation of Rob's vehicle.

More likely, though, the police found sufficient evidence to clear Rob before questions on whether the vehicle's transmission should be examined even came to fore. And that is why any question about whether tests and examinations on the transmission were conducted met with a negative response from the Clinton Police Department frankly doesn't mean a hill of beans--to me, anyway.


Ultimately, my sentiments run rather closely to these:

Originally Posted by bell83

Because of this, no one can give you details, here. If you want details, I suggest the same thing I suggested to Onlooker: contact the local and state law enforcement on it. They can tell you why Rob was deemed innocent, and you can run your theories about shoddy police work by them.

This does qualify as beating a dead horse, because the same questions keep getting asked, and the same answers keep getting given, with neither side accepting either.

[bell83]

Originally Posted by Cursiorandcursior

At the risk of sounding repetitious it is in fact possible for the police to do an incomplete or poor investigation. Surely everyone would agree with that.

Let me pose a hypothetical question. If I were to contact the Clinton police department and ask them if they duplicated the transmission failure or did not disassemble it but took the version given as fact not needing confirmation would it make any difference?

To your first point, it is absolutely possible that the police didn't do a complete investigation. But the fact is that none of us have the complete police file sitting here to check through, unfortunately. If you were to contact them and they told you that the transmission was never checked, it would absolutely make a difference. Then things would start to unravel, and I would recant my belief that he is innocent, and ask for more information. But as it stands now, that's the story, and the investigators accepted it, for whatever reason(s). I, personally, currently have no reason to believe otherwise, however.

And Meg, thank you.

[Cursiorandcursior]

Originally Posted by bell83

To your first point, it is absolutely possible that the police didn't do a complete investigation. But the fact is that none of us have the complete police file sitting here to check through, unfortunately. If you were to contact them and they told you that the transmission was never checked, it would absolutely make a difference. Then things would start to unravel, and I would recant my belief that he is innocent, and ask for more information. But as it stands now, that's the story, and the investigators accepted it, for whatever reason(s). I, personally, currently have no reason to believe otherwise, however.

And Meg, thank you.

I'm reading the entire thread through from the very beginning. So far as I know this particular website covers the case better than any other. Especially interesting are the K.C. newspaper articles that were posted about page 5 or so. I have found that they had pretty good reporting on the 3MW case; in fact, somewhat better than the newspaper right in Springfield where the crimes occurred. What I am specifically looking to find is where and what the police actually said about clearing the BF. I want to see if they parsed their words or left any wiggle room and what they based their opinions on.

I've said this before but I want to say it again. I have no dog in this hunt. I don't know the gentleman; never met him, never spoke to him and have an animus toward him. He may have done his level best and everything correctly. But here is one thing we know for a certainty. About 85% of all such murders are committed by those close to the victim; not some bushy headed serial murderer. It may even be higher than that, actually. Always eliminate those who had access to the victims before moving elsewhere and when doing so, make absolutely positive that there are no mistakes. So I probably won't be commenting much more than about 48 hours from now after I get through reading all the available information in this thread and throughout the internet. That's going to take some time.

[mwcarolina]

Rob was cleared by investigators. Not us. Nobody on this site (either those who are against the Rob theory, those who are for the Rob theory, or those who don't give a damn) was involved with the investigation. Because of this, no one can give you details, here. If you want details, I suggest the same thing I suggested to Onlooker: contact the local and state law enforcement on it. They can tell you why Rob was deemed innocent, and you can run your theories about shoddy police work by them.
Thank you Bell, jeez. At least this guy is asking good questions that we cant answer, but people like this next guy anger me.
Why clear a man that was the last one to see Angela?
Rob was the the last one to see her and speak with her.
how do you know that?? did you find out if Angela actually saw her friend like the segment said???
Why clear a man which had the motive and the opportunity?
A pregnant girlfriend
like someone told me, NOT a good motive and he didnt have opportunity. Why you ask, tell me this, where's the body????? How did a young adult HIDE a body SO well that we havent found it to THIS day???? How did he clean up the blood???? how did he come up with a GREAT story under ALOT of pressure.
Police cleared Rob cause he passed the polygraph and they believed his story.
how do YOU know that??? Did you talk to the police?????

[SageSlowdive]

There's always going to be conspiracy theorists who can't believe the credible evidence.

Stripping your transmission is much harder then it seems...you couldn't do it purposely, I'm sure. Rob ran down to where Angela was at when he heard her scream, therefore his little brother was right there and heard Rob say he had to go. He follows them as long as he could. END OF STORY...unfortunately.

The main thing is, a horrible crime was committed on April 4, 1991 and the criminal still hasn't been locked up for it. It's easy to blame Rob, just like it's easy to blame Jeff Oberholtzer in the case of the Orange Sock Murders. The fact is, they didn't do it.

[bell83]

Originally Posted by SageSlowdive

There's always going to be conspiracy theorists who can't believe the credible evidence.

As I said earlier in this comment thread, it's like arguing with one of the Moon Landing Hoax believers. No amount of evidence will change their knowledge. Although, at least Curiouser is not attacking, nor is he ignoring posts that refute something he says, unlike another of the posters (who shall remain nameless) who believes Rob murdered her.

[egswanso]

Originally Posted by Cursiorandcursior

About 85% of all such murders are committed by those close to the victim; not some bushy headed serial murderer. It may even be higher than that, actually. Always eliminate those who had access to the victims before moving elsewhere and when doing so, make absolutely positive that there are no mistakes.

The Police know these statistics too. Indeed, it would have made their lives easier to just say that Rob lied, he did it, we don't have no crazy killer running about our town. That they didn't would seem to suggest that the evidence made this impossible.

Like others have said, without the police file in front of us, we have to accept LE at their word; but this also makes sense logically; Rob's story was complex. Complex lies are far easier to break then simple stories. Not only did LE not break it, they support it. Barring evidence of some massive conspiracy between Rob, LE, and Angela's family (unlikely and improbably, frankly), there's just nothing credible to show Rob's involvement. There's nothing inherently wrong with speculation, but rank speculation is not only useless, but it starts to border on libelous.