Angela Hammond - Girl abducted from phone booth - Page 24 - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

kane7474 · 05-14-2010, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hambone2421

Very well said. I completely agree.

I don't want to hear how the things Kane mentioned that should have been done by LE, couldn't be done because it "wasn't procedure" or "too expensive". This is a human life we are talking about and the comparison to the presidents daughter is a good comparison as to the way it would have been handled.

I have always been intrigued by missing persons cases and have studied many of them. I watched every episode of unsolved mysteries on this subject. Besided the Hammond case, I cannot think of another instance where an abduction happens and within minutes the police have a description of the vehicle, the perp and the direction the vehicle was going and the person was not caught.
I realize there have been many cases were witnesses saw a strange vehicle and came forward after they realized there had been foul play. Ofcourse by that time the suspect is long gone. But that is simply not the case here.
To those that may think Rob is behind this I would remind you that at least two other people told investigators that they had seen the green truck in the area that night. I dont think that was mentioned in the UM episode but it was in various newspaper articles.
And this nonsense that came out a year ago about there being new info and the police closing in on a suspect was just that, nonsense. Alot of people are still talking about this case and the police are simply trying to cover their ass. They have no more clues now then they did in 91.
To me this is no mystery. She was taken by a serial killer/rapist and was murdered. The police did not respond properly so he got away. Hes moved far from the area or is in jail for a similar crime at this time. There's really nothing else to figure out here.

kane7474 · 05-14-2010, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onlooker

The beating the dead horse emoticon was as sensational as the story! LOVED it! LOL...

If the perp was a creep with a kill car, who executed his plan with such precision that he was in and out in a flash, WHY, in God's name would he delay his escape by a few seconds to speak into the phone? Doing so only increased the chances he'd get caught. If he was such a phenominal criminal, he would've taken what he wanted as quickly as possible. Someone here would agree with me I hope.

Another note on the creeps words on the phone. I get the impression he allegedly spoke those words immediately after making contact with Angela, right? Think if you were Angela at that point in time. In the 2 seconds in which he made physical contact and then picked up the phone it is tremendously unlikely that she could've been in any way subdued. For the attacker to stop, reach for the phone, pick up the phone, and then finally, speak into the phone those words would allow Angela time to run like hell. Adrenaline would've kicked in, and likely, she would've ran like hell towards the main road or a place she thought likely to have someone else present. The old, dirty, scruffy guy was probably not a sprinter and likely would've had a little bit of a chore in catching up to and subsequently subduing Angela before making his alleged getaway.

As the people that accuse me of having never seen a small town or resided in one, with all your details of the darkness, you contradict yourself when you say it's so dark you can barely see who's driving past you. That being said, how: 1. Did she see him, know it was him and scream out to him 2. Did he know it was her? Seems fishy to me. Also, if she was able to scream out at him, that would indicate that she was able to lean out of the vehicle to do so, or at least move around in the vehicle to do it. If any of us were in that spot, as she is alleged to be, we'd all ditch & roll out the side and hope for a few broken bones.

Lastly, everyone loves to talk about money and how Rob wasn't made of it, and he wouldn't hurt his car because of financial concerns. I GET THAT. No one here has answered my question. If, you (for whatever reason whatsoever) killed someone (accidentally or not) and decided you needed to cover up that crime and try to not get caught, would you a) be concerned about a few thousand dollars or b) use every means at your disposal to avoid being caught.

Feel free to keep trying to pick me apart, but please quit ducking this question. A or B

First off I dont think there is any evidence the perp actually picked up the phone and spoke into it. I think Rob simply heard the man say that in the background. Hell if he picked up the phone now we have a set of prints right?? Im sure the cops never bothered to check that out either.
As far as why she didnt run away? I fully beileve there was more then one perp in this case. I think the nasty bearded man distracted her while another surprised her from behind. I think that explains why she couldnt get away from a man that was obviously not a sprinter.

You say that if Angela was able to scream out then she should have been able to jump out of the vehicle? Again I think there was second perp holding her while the other drove but consider this woman was terrified and the truck was travelling at high rate of speed. Not everyone reacts the same. Some may bail and others may freeze up.

I would like to point something out to you and have you address it.
Do you understand that for Rob to do this how much cooperation he would have to have had? First off two other people reported seeing the truck in the area that night. So did they lie?
Angela was with a female friend before calling Rob, did the female friend lie to police when she conveyed that?
Robs brother told police about Rob getting the phone call from Angela and then rushing out the door. Did he lie also?
Do you beileve that all these people lied for Rob and helped him pull off the murder of his girlfriend?

mwcarolina · 05-14-2010, 03:08 PM

Onlooker keeps stating that Angela was unaccounted for after the BBQ. Did the segment not state that she has hanging out with a female friend after the bbq?
yeah, they dont mention it in the segment, BUT if you listen CAREFULLY, you hear her say, i'm going to (cant recall the name's) house and she would call him later.
First off I dont think there is any evidence the perp actually picked up the phone and spoke into it. I think Rob simply heard the man say that in the background.
agreed, there is not evidence he picked up the phone, he may have said to her while taking her, i didn't need to use the phone anyway.
You say that if Angela was able to scream out then she should have been able to jump out of the vehicle? Again I think there was second perp holding her while the other drove but consider this woman was terrified and the truck was travelling at high rate of speed. Not everyone reacts the same. Some may bail and others may freeze up.
Well, i dont know if there was a 2nd perp (it would explain alot), but i agree with the 2nd part, the truck was taking off, he may have been very strong too and not everyone reacts the same.
Do you understand that for Rob to do this how much cooperation he would have to have had? First off two other people reported seeing the truck in the area that night. So did they lie?
Angela was with a female friend before calling Rob, did the female friend lie to police when she conveyed that?
Robs brother told police about Rob getting the phone call from Angela and then rushing out the door. Did he lie also?
Do you beileve that all these people lied for Rob and helped him pull off the murder of his girlfriend?
yep, i didnt hear if the police talked to them (it's very likely they did though), but i agree, they wouldn't all cover for Rob, add to that, he would have to damage his own transmission (which isnt a cheap fix), clean up the scene of the crime SO well that the body won't be found in OVER TEN YEARS, Rob would have to be the perfect criminal to do this. I agree with Mastermind and others when they say, the person who did this is a serial killer and i will take it a step further and say, the man likely saw her as an opportunity, kidnapped and raped her and likely did the crime in another city or state and is now in another city or state.

Onlooker · 07-24-2010, 11:49 PM

Kane:

For everyone else that has deemed me an ass for not ruling out rob, please save our time. This is primarily for Kane.

As far as cooperation, I think there's less needed that one might think, and here's why:
1) when a crime is committed, especially an intriguing or major crime, a ton of tips roll in, 99% of them are junk. Some people love the attention they get when reporting them. This, IMHO, was illustrated by the old woman in the 3MW case in Springfield, MO, claiming to have witnessed a portion of the abduction. Her claim occurred 3-5 days after the initial story broke and I am of the feeling that she had heard reports of certain suspicious vehicles and went with it. (sorry for the sidetrack)

Everyone in this forum claims Angela hung out with a friend after dropping Rob off. That's what was "illustrated" in the UM episode. That's the hollywood part of the story. I have yet to see a credible news outlet verify or document that this friend she was going to hang out with saw her, which is VERY important in this case.

Rob's brother claimed that Angela called Rob and he ran out the door.
That's great. Did Rob's brother answer the call and hand Rob the phone? By the accounts I have seen and read, ROB answered the phone and took off. This is important too.

If anyone can help me find credible evidence that someone can verify Angela being alive from the time She dropped off rob until the time she made the phone call screaming for help, please share it here. My theory is made stronger by the absence of this information.

Kane: Thanks for the post and for resparking my interest in this story.

I would like to point something out to you and have you address it.
Do you understand that for Rob to do this how much cooperation he would have to have had? First off two other people reported seeing the truck in the area that night. So did they lie?
Angela was with a female friend before calling Rob, did the female friend lie to police when she conveyed that?
Robs brother told police about Rob getting the phone call from Angela and then rushing out the door. Did he lie also?
Do you beileve that all these people lied for Rob and helped him pull off the murder of his girlfriend?

XCalibur · 07-25-2010, 03:00 PM

I was reading through some articles and found word of another serial Killer who could have murdered Angela. Of course there is the Kenneth McDuff theory, but this guy may be an even stronger possibility, its a serial Killer named Larry Hall who crisscrossed the Midwest from 1979-1994 killing young women, supposedly he liked to visit Civial War battle sites. He definitely killed in Missouri before, he was suspected of a murder in Indiana not long after Angela's death. He is now in prison for kidnapping in North carolina, but strangely he's never actually been convicted of murder. The victims he chose were more in line with Angela Hammond than those of Kenneth McDuff.

I couldn't find any pictures of the guy, but he was 46 years old in 2009 when this article was written, which means he was around 28 or 29 years old at the thime of Angela's abduction. I got the impression Angela's abductor was thought to be older, but of course there is no way of knowing that.

Only thing I couldn't find was any information that he ever owned a truck like the one seen driving off with Angela, and I couldn't find a lot of information about how he liked to catch his victims. I think the couple I read about he actually broke into people's homes which would be a departure from the Hammond abduction.

Here is one article I could find on Hall I may post more soon:
http://s2.excoboard.com/UBTJ/163834/2139435

Definitely think he is at least someone to discuss as a posisbility.

MegtheEgg86 · 07-25-2010, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bell83

and discotheques lit up

Of course we couldn't have those, bell! Our tiny, inept police departments couldn't respond to all the cocaine busts!

Onlooker, I've read the entire thread since your initial post, and almost immediately you became defensive when your ideas were challenged.

Challenge is not the equivalent of insult. It seems far less like other posters are "deeming you an ass", and far more like you're becoming flustered because your opinion, as many have stated, is based on misconceptions and stereotypes and is now being scrutinized.

bell83 · 07-25-2010, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegtheEgg86

Of course we couldn't have those, bell! Our tiny, inept police departments couldn't respond to all the cocaine busts!

Onlooker, I've read the entire thread since your initial post, and almost immediately you became defensive when your ideas were challenged.

Challenge is not the equivalent of insult. It seems far less like other posters are "deeming you an ass", and far more like you're becoming flustered because your opinion, as many have stated, is based on misconceptions and stereotypes and is now being scrutinized.

Not to mention that any time someone challenged his ideas, or even gave proof against them, the posts were ignored, or the person berated (i.e. DING DONG. RING THE BELL). Unfortunately, trying to change Onlooker's mind is an exercise in futility, Meg, because he KNOWS that Rob killed her.

Onlooker, the burden of proof in this matter lies with you. Rob has been cleared by the "inept/useless/lazy" police departments that we stupid, backwoods hillbillies have. Do you want to know part of the reason that there are no interviews or news articles online, that people can link you to? Because--surprise, surprise--the internet was not in use by the masses at the time. And many small areas with small local papers have not bothered to put their entire archives on the internet. My advice? If you actually care to learn more about the case, and you are unwilling to listen to the opinions of those who have already read up on and studied the case, then take a trip to Clinton, Missouri, and interview people there. Then, you can come back and tell us your findings.

An old adage about a dead horse comes to mind.

XCalibur · 07-25-2010, 07:27 PM

wouldn't Angela have mentioned it if there were two abductors?

Yes given that her description is based on secondhand infomation, I could understand that some of the details might be sketchy, but something like there being two men Angela would have undoubtedly mentioned. Rob also drove right past the truck and never mentioned seeing another man.

I agree though it would have been difficult for an abductor to keep Angela subdued and drive a vehicle at the same time. Would have taken a pretty strong man. Its certainly not impossible though given Angela was so small.

That she didn't jump out of the vehicle at a high rate of speed is not that unusual, she could have really hurt herself badly and all the abductor would have to do is go back and get her and she'd have been no better off.

Now if Rob had been able to keep the chase up, then she'd have something to gain by jumping out cause he would have been right there and could easily
have gotten to her before the abductor could turn around and go back and get her , and then its more likely the abductor would have just kept driving rather than going back and taking his chances with Rob, although that is not a certainty, particularly if he had had a gun somewhere in his truck.

Most likely he was able to keep her subdued just long enough to get away from Rob, at which point jumping out of the truck may have saved her life when he was still close enough to save her. But once Rob's car stalled it probably wouldn't have doner her any good.

Oldschooler81 · 07-26-2010, 08:24 AM

Can't believe I've never posted on here, this was one of the first cases I saw in 1993 and personal to me (esp since it was still pretty recent then).

Even though at first glance it might've sounded far fetched, I totally agree that Rob isn't guilty. He struck me as a really nice guy who felt horrible that even by his most valient effort, he wasn't quite able to do anything to save Angie.

In fact he seemed like one of the most sincere grieving boyfriend/husbands on UM (compare him to Paul Pollis or Mark Nichols!).

I should look up Clinton, MO on Google Street View or earth (I love using that). I bet it hasn't changed much since 1991 other than technology and a few more things built. Like some other people have said, I don't think it's a stretch to say that nobody was out at 11pm in a small town and therefore didn't see Rob chasing the truck. I live in a big metro area, and even here there's some streets that aren't exactly bustling at that hour either.

Judging by the reenactment (which Rob heard as it happened) the guy came up behind Angie when she was on the phone, so just by the shock value I wouldn't be surprised if he was able to overpower her. It did look like she was struggling as the truck was driving too.

I really do hope for the slim chance this case could be solved. I'd love if Angie was still alive (she'd be like 39 now) but chances are that she isn't. Most likely I'd say he took her out of town before likely murdering her, and he's either in jail for some unrelated crime or dead by now.

mwcarolina · 07-26-2010, 10:29 AM

Even though at first glance it might've sounded far fetched, I totally agree that Rob isn't guilty. He struck me as a really nice guy who felt horrible that even by his most valient effort, he wasn't quite able to do anything to save Angie. In fact he seemed like one of the most sincere grieving boyfriend/husbands on UM (compare him to Paul Pollis or Mark Nichols!).
Exactly!!! that's what i told Onlooker, plus other things. I just dont get that rub that Rob is guilty, add to that, he's a teenager or young 20 year old. He would've made a mistake if he killed someone and would've been caught.

Like some other people have said, I don't think it's a stretch to say that nobody was out at 11pm in a small town and therefore didn't see Rob chasing the truck. I live in a big metro area, and even here there's some streets that aren't exactly bustling at that hour either.
agree and you live in a big metro area, imagine how it will be in a small town when people just either drive through to get somewhere else or arent out at all.

Judging by the reenactment (which Rob heard as it happened) the guy came up behind Angie when she was on the phone, so just by the shock value I wouldn't be surprised if he was able to overpower her.
good point there.

I really do hope for the slim chance this case could be solved. I'd love if Angie was still alive (she'd be like 39 now) but chances are that she isn't. Most likely I'd say he took her out of town before likely murdering her, and he's either in jail for some unrelated crime or dead by now.
yeah i agree, she likely got taken to another town, state or city, killed, buried, then he moved on. I think the abductor is either in jail, dead, or alive, but is hard to find because he's not a popular guy who talks to alot of people.

Onlooker, I've read the entire thread since your initial post, and almost immediately you became defensive when your ideas were challenged.
that's one problem i had. Onlooker became defensive and Onlooker shot down all the ideas and took them as garbage. Onlooker thinks the police didnt investigate, but it's not that hard to find evidence on a guy who makes mistakes and Rob would've made MAJOR mistakes.

Challenge is not the equivalent of insult.
you're right, all I am saying is look at the scenerio. First off, Onlooker claims that Angela was doing nothing for 2 hours or something, but in the Segment, she said she is going to a friend's house then she would call him. i am sure they talked to her. Rob is young, he would've left some type of physical evidence behind, either in his car or on the street or on his clothes, add to that a Transmission fix is not a cheap fix.

as many have stated, is based on misconceptions and stereotypes and is now being scrutinized.
that's why i have turned down his theory. No one destroys their own transimission so they can keep a story from looking good and if Rob did do this crime (which i HIGHLY doubt) then he needs to be known as a great liar.

Oldschooler81 · 07-26-2010, 03:17 PM

^ Good points, I agree.

The local police probably should have worked harder to go after the suspect instead of focusing on Rob first. Obviously that's standard precedure, but valuable time got away. I wonder if even as late as '91 a relatively cozy small town might've just been unprepared or equipped to handle a major case like that, so they naturally assumed it was a lover's quarrel or something.

Even Angela's mom said she could see (from an outsider's perspective) how people might wonder if the boyfriend did it, but she also said Rob was a great guy she'd known his whole life. This dude would have to be the criminal of the century to pull off a first time murder having (I presume) never even having a run in with the law before, and get away with it.

If it happened just like the reenactment, Rob didn't make a u-turn and instead stopped to hit reverse to turn around (which threw out his transmission) because he was panicked, and also because the street didn't look big enough to make a wide turn. I doubt he would've thought of something like that if he were guilty.

reportertype · 07-26-2010, 11:54 PM

Just spent the past two days reading the entire thread.

My thoughts about the guy getting away. This doesn't really surprise me. My folks both have worked at a small sheriff's office. There might be one, maybe two people patrolling the entire area. More urban areas are understaffed too, usually, so I can see why LE wasn't there immediately. My dinky hometown is even smaller than Clinton and there are an untold number of dirt back roads, even I don't know how they all connect after living there and driving along most of them. Either the guy knew where he was going and he got lucky or a combo of both.

In the stories I've read, Angela told Rob the truck was green. But Rob said when he drove by a truck he thought was yellow, he heard his name yelled. We can't even be positive the truck was either one of these colors. Nearby lights and our eyes change that, especially at night.

About "it was a small town and everyone knows every car." That is so not true. I didn't even know the cars of some of my fellow students. Lots of trucks, too, and I bet Clinton isn't that much different.

One final thought, though it may be outdated by this point, on possible DNA. In many cases, DNA was collected at the time of the crime but never mentioned or focused on because there wasn't anything to do with it. In some cases it was forgotten until a new investigator came across it while taking another look at the case. Don't know if that's the case here, but it's one possibility.

mwcarolina · 07-27-2010, 12:42 AM

This dude would have to be the criminal of the century to pull off a first time murder having (I presume) never even having a run in with the law before, and get away with it.
agreed, that's what i tried to tell this guy. I think Rob isnt guilty because he would have to be a perfect criminal to get away with this. There isnt anything even suspicious about Rob's story really except the guy and that could happen. He didnt' come off like Paul Polis, who had footprints in the snow going towards a shed or a witness saying he wasnt doing what he said he was doing.

If it happened just like the reenactment, Rob didn't make a u-turn and instead stopped to hit reverse to turn around (which threw out his transmission) because he was panicked, and also because the street didn't look big enough to make a wide turn. I doubt he would've thought of something like that if he were guilty.
yeah i agree, no one could make up a story that good, destroy their transmission and use it in that story. It's harder to make up a lie when you are under pressure than many think.
In the stories I've read, Angela told Rob the truck was green. But Rob said when he drove by a truck he thought was yellow, he heard his name yelled. We can't even be positive the truck was either one of these colors. Nearby lights and our eyes change that, especially at night.
Very true, lights can play tricks on you.
About "it was a small town and everyone knows every car." That is so not true. I didn't even know the cars of some of my fellow students. Lots of trucks, too, and I bet Clinton isn't that much different.
agreed, just because someone lives in small town doesnt mean you know everyone there or their cars and like i said, the guy i think did this is an out of towner who came here, saw a young woman, grabbed her, took her in another town, likely raped and killed her, although i hope she's alive.
One final thought, though it may be outdated by this point, on possible DNA. In many cases, DNA was collected at the time of the crime but never mentioned or focused on because there wasn't anything to do with it.
i heard something about DNA with this case, but not much, i really hope they are able to find this guy, Angela's family NEEDS answers.

mwcarolina · 07-27-2010, 12:56 AM

Everyone in this forum claims Angela hung out with a friend after dropping Rob off. That's what was "illustrated" in the UM episode. That's the hollywood part of the story. I have yet to see a credible news outlet verify or document that this friend she was going to hang out with saw her, which is VERY important in this case.
it's NOT a part of the story. Why in the world would the segment want to show Angela hanging out with her friend????? like i said, what i think happened (although you dont care) is Rob was dropped off, she went to hang out with her friend, then after that she went to a pay phone, called Rob to tell him she was going home and then the truck came and all the stuff Rob said happened. Like MANY have said, in order for Rob to have done this, he would've HAD to have help doing it. For example, who drove the car to hide her body so well that it hasnt been found to this day?? who cleaned up???? how has the police not found out about Rob and his helpers?? things like this are questioned.
Not to mention that any time someone challenged his ideas, or even gave proof against them, the posts were ignored, or the person berated (i.e. DING DONG. RING THE BELL).
Agreed, he's either shooting the posts down like we have no clue what we are talking about or starting a conspiracy theory. Onlooker wants to throw a man in prison without proper evidence. Take your theory to court and the jury will find him not guilty.
Unfortunately, trying to change Onlooker's mind is an exercise in futility, Meg, because he KNOWS that Rob killed her.
i know right, in Onlooker's mind Rob is the perfect criminal. He can kill, clean up the scene, come up with a story and even damage his own car to make his story credible.
Do you want to know part of the reason that there are no interviews or news articles online, that people can link you to? Because--surprise, surprise--the internet was not in use by the masses at the time.
very true, this happened before computers were as popular as they are now.
My advice? If you actually care to learn more about the case, and you are unwilling to listen to the opinions of those who have already read up on and studied the case, then take a trip to Clinton, Missouri, and interview people there. Then, you can come back and tell us your findings
agreed, because i think that's the only way Onlooker will get the info that Onlooker wants. I am sure the police did a good job investigating Rob.

TracyLynnS · 07-27-2010, 01:50 AM

RE: discrepancies in reports about the color of the abductor's vehicle.

Obviously, it's was dark outside because of the time of day this occurred. Then there are the different lights, traffic lights, parking lot lights, street lights, etc, that reflect off a car, altering the perceived color. I've even read about cases where the eye witnesses insisted a perp's vehicle was red, when it turned out to be a white vehicle with a red traffic light casting that color onto it.

Another possibility: color blindness. Three years ago, I realized that my teenage daughter is green/yellow color "blind". At that time, we also noticed that her father has the same problem, just to a lesser extent.

In my daughter's case, she sees green objects as having much more yellow in them than they really have.

Perhaps this was problem in Rob's description of the abductor's vehicle. And he may not even know he had this odd color blindness problem. At the time Angela was abducted, Rob was about the same age my daughter was when we found out she was partially color blind.

Of course, it could always have been reflections from traffic lights shining on the truck in Angela's case. After all, the same traffic light that casts a green glow on objects also casts a yellow glow as the light changes. That could account for why one person saw a green truck and one saw a yellowish truck.

Still, I don't know why there are discrepancies in the color description. Could have been fear, stress, mistakes, reflecting light, or even a rare condition limiting the viewer's perception of color.

05-14-2010, 03:08 PM	#348
mwcarolina Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Feb 01, 2010 Location: nc Posts: 466	Onlooker keeps stating that Angela was unaccounted for after the BBQ. Did the segment not state that she has hanging out with a female friend after the bbq? yeah, they dont mention it in the segment, BUT if you listen CAREFULLY, you hear her say, i'm going to (cant recall the name's) house and she would call him later. First off I dont think there is any evidence the perp actually picked up the phone and spoke into it. I think Rob simply heard the man say that in the background. agreed, there is not evidence he picked up the phone, he may have said to her while taking her, i didn't need to use the phone anyway. You say that if Angela was able to scream out then she should have been able to jump out of the vehicle? Again I think there was second perp holding her while the other drove but consider this woman was terrified and the truck was travelling at high rate of speed. Not everyone reacts the same. Some may bail and others may freeze up. Well, i dont know if there was a 2nd perp (it would explain alot), but i agree with the 2nd part, the truck was taking off, he may have been very strong too and not everyone reacts the same. Do you understand that for Rob to do this how much cooperation he would have to have had? First off two other people reported seeing the truck in the area that night. So did they lie? Angela was with a female friend before calling Rob, did the female friend lie to police when she conveyed that? Robs brother told police about Rob getting the phone call from Angela and then rushing out the door. Did he lie also? Do you beileve that all these people lied for Rob and helped him pull off the murder of his girlfriend? yep, i didnt hear if the police talked to them (it's very likely they did though), but i agree, they wouldn't all cover for Rob, add to that, he would have to damage his own transmission (which isnt a cheap fix), clean up the scene of the crime SO well that the body won't be found in OVER TEN YEARS, Rob would have to be the perfect criminal to do this. I agree with Mastermind and others when they say, the person who did this is a serial killer and i will take it a step further and say, the man likely saw her as an opportunity, kidnapped and raped her and likely did the crime in another city or state and is now in another city or state.

07-24-2010, 11:49 PM	#349
Onlooker Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Apr 19, 2010 Posts: 12	Kane: For everyone else that has deemed me an ass for not ruling out rob, please save our time. This is primarily for Kane. As far as cooperation, I think there's less needed that one might think, and here's why: 1) when a crime is committed, especially an intriguing or major crime, a ton of tips roll in, 99% of them are junk. Some people love the attention they get when reporting them. This, IMHO, was illustrated by the old woman in the 3MW case in Springfield, MO, claiming to have witnessed a portion of the abduction. Her claim occurred 3-5 days after the initial story broke and I am of the feeling that she had heard reports of certain suspicious vehicles and went with it. (sorry for the sidetrack) Everyone in this forum claims Angela hung out with a friend after dropping Rob off. That's what was "illustrated" in the UM episode. That's the hollywood part of the story. I have yet to see a credible news outlet verify or document that this friend she was going to hang out with saw her, which is VERY important in this case. Rob's brother claimed that Angela called Rob and he ran out the door. That's great. Did Rob's brother answer the call and hand Rob the phone? By the accounts I have seen and read, ROB answered the phone and took off. This is important too. If anyone can help me find credible evidence that someone can verify Angela being alive from the time She dropped off rob until the time she made the phone call screaming for help, please share it here. My theory is made stronger by the absence of this information. Kane: Thanks for the post and for resparking my interest in this story. I would like to point something out to you and have you address it. Do you understand that for Rob to do this how much cooperation he would have to have had? First off two other people reported seeing the truck in the area that night. So did they lie? Angela was with a female friend before calling Rob, did the female friend lie to police when she conveyed that? Robs brother told police about Rob getting the phone call from Angela and then rushing out the door. Did he lie also? Do you beileve that all these people lied for Rob and helped him pull off the murder of his girlfriend?

07-25-2010, 03:00 PM	#350
XCalibur Member Forum Regular Join Date: May 16, 2010 Location: Belfast, Va Posts: 988	I was reading through some articles and found word of another serial Killer who could have murdered Angela. Of course there is the Kenneth McDuff theory, but this guy may be an even stronger possibility, its a serial Killer named Larry Hall who crisscrossed the Midwest from 1979-1994 killing young women, supposedly he liked to visit Civial War battle sites. He definitely killed in Missouri before, he was suspected of a murder in Indiana not long after Angela's death. He is now in prison for kidnapping in North carolina, but strangely he's never actually been convicted of murder. The victims he chose were more in line with Angela Hammond than those of Kenneth McDuff. I couldn't find any pictures of the guy, but he was 46 years old in 2009 when this article was written, which means he was around 28 or 29 years old at the thime of Angela's abduction. I got the impression Angela's abductor was thought to be older, but of course there is no way of knowing that. Only thing I couldn't find was any information that he ever owned a truck like the one seen driving off with Angela, and I couldn't find a lot of information about how he liked to catch his victims. I think the couple I read about he actually broke into people's homes which would be a departure from the Hammond abduction. Here is one article I could find on Hall I may post more soon: http://s2.excoboard.com/UBTJ/163834/2139435 Definitely think he is at least someone to discuss as a posisbility.

07-25-2010, 07:27 PM	#353
XCalibur Member Forum Regular Join Date: May 16, 2010 Location: Belfast, Va Posts: 988	wouldn't Angela have mentioned it if there were two abductors? Yes given that her description is based on secondhand infomation, I could understand that some of the details might be sketchy, but something like there being two men Angela would have undoubtedly mentioned. Rob also drove right past the truck and never mentioned seeing another man. I agree though it would have been difficult for an abductor to keep Angela subdued and drive a vehicle at the same time. Would have taken a pretty strong man. Its certainly not impossible though given Angela was so small. That she didn't jump out of the vehicle at a high rate of speed is not that unusual, she could have really hurt herself badly and all the abductor would have to do is go back and get her and she'd have been no better off. Now if Rob had been able to keep the chase up, then she'd have something to gain by jumping out cause he would have been right there and could easily have gotten to her before the abductor could turn around and go back and get her , and then its more likely the abductor would have just kept driving rather than going back and taking his chances with Rob, although that is not a certainty, particularly if he had had a gun somewhere in his truck. Most likely he was able to keep her subdued just long enough to get away from Rob, at which point jumping out of the truck may have saved her life when he was still close enough to save her. But once Rob's car stalled it probably wouldn't have doner her any good.

07-26-2010, 08:24 AM	#354
Oldschooler81 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: May 03, 2009 Location: Northern CA Posts: 457	Can't believe I've never posted on here, this was one of the first cases I saw in 1993 and personal to me (esp since it was still pretty recent then). Even though at first glance it might've sounded far fetched, I totally agree that Rob isn't guilty. He struck me as a really nice guy who felt horrible that even by his most valient effort, he wasn't quite able to do anything to save Angie. In fact he seemed like one of the most sincere grieving boyfriend/husbands on UM (compare him to Paul Pollis or Mark Nichols!). I should look up Clinton, MO on Google Street View or earth (I love using that). I bet it hasn't changed much since 1991 other than technology and a few more things built. Like some other people have said, I don't think it's a stretch to say that nobody was out at 11pm in a small town and therefore didn't see Rob chasing the truck. I live in a big metro area, and even here there's some streets that aren't exactly bustling at that hour either. Judging by the reenactment (which Rob heard as it happened) the guy came up behind Angie when she was on the phone, so just by the shock value I wouldn't be surprised if he was able to overpower her. It did look like she was struggling as the truck was driving too. I really do hope for the slim chance this case could be solved. I'd love if Angie was still alive (she'd be like 39 now) but chances are that she isn't. Most likely I'd say he took her out of town before likely murdering her, and he's either in jail for some unrelated crime or dead by now.

07-26-2010, 10:29 AM	#355
mwcarolina Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Feb 01, 2010 Location: nc Posts: 466	Even though at first glance it might've sounded far fetched, I totally agree that Rob isn't guilty. He struck me as a really nice guy who felt horrible that even by his most valient effort, he wasn't quite able to do anything to save Angie. In fact he seemed like one of the most sincere grieving boyfriend/husbands on UM (compare him to Paul Pollis or Mark Nichols!). Exactly!!! that's what i told Onlooker, plus other things. I just dont get that rub that Rob is guilty, add to that, he's a teenager or young 20 year old. He would've made a mistake if he killed someone and would've been caught. Like some other people have said, I don't think it's a stretch to say that nobody was out at 11pm in a small town and therefore didn't see Rob chasing the truck. I live in a big metro area, and even here there's some streets that aren't exactly bustling at that hour either. agree and you live in a big metro area, imagine how it will be in a small town when people just either drive through to get somewhere else or arent out at all. Judging by the reenactment (which Rob heard as it happened) the guy came up behind Angie when she was on the phone, so just by the shock value I wouldn't be surprised if he was able to overpower her. good point there. I really do hope for the slim chance this case could be solved. I'd love if Angie was still alive (she'd be like 39 now) but chances are that she isn't. Most likely I'd say he took her out of town before likely murdering her, and he's either in jail for some unrelated crime or dead by now. yeah i agree, she likely got taken to another town, state or city, killed, buried, then he moved on. I think the abductor is either in jail, dead, or alive, but is hard to find because he's not a popular guy who talks to alot of people. Onlooker, I've read the entire thread since your initial post, and almost immediately you became defensive when your ideas were challenged. that's one problem i had. Onlooker became defensive and Onlooker shot down all the ideas and took them as garbage. Onlooker thinks the police didnt investigate, but it's not that hard to find evidence on a guy who makes mistakes and Rob would've made MAJOR mistakes. Challenge is not the equivalent of insult. you're right, all I am saying is look at the scenerio. First off, Onlooker claims that Angela was doing nothing for 2 hours or something, but in the Segment, she said she is going to a friend's house then she would call him. i am sure they talked to her. Rob is young, he would've left some type of physical evidence behind, either in his car or on the street or on his clothes, add to that a Transmission fix is not a cheap fix. as many have stated, is based on misconceptions and stereotypes and is now being scrutinized. that's why i have turned down his theory. No one destroys their own transimission so they can keep a story from looking good and if Rob did do this crime (which i HIGHLY doubt) then he needs to be known as a great liar.

07-26-2010, 03:17 PM	#356
Oldschooler81 Member Frequent Poster Join Date: May 03, 2009 Location: Northern CA Posts: 457	^ Good points, I agree. The local police probably should have worked harder to go after the suspect instead of focusing on Rob first. Obviously that's standard precedure, but valuable time got away. I wonder if even as late as '91 a relatively cozy small town might've just been unprepared or equipped to handle a major case like that, so they naturally assumed it was a lover's quarrel or something. Even Angela's mom said she could see (from an outsider's perspective) how people might wonder if the boyfriend did it, but she also said Rob was a great guy she'd known his whole life. This dude would have to be the criminal of the century to pull off a first time murder having (I presume) never even having a run in with the law before, and get away with it. If it happened just like the reenactment, Rob didn't make a u-turn and instead stopped to hit reverse to turn around (which threw out his transmission) because he was panicked, and also because the street didn't look big enough to make a wide turn. I doubt he would've thought of something like that if he were guilty.

07-26-2010, 11:54 PM	#357
reportertype Member Occasional Poster Join Date: Oct 20, 2005 Location: SW Florida Posts: 7	Just spent the past two days reading the entire thread. My thoughts about the guy getting away. This doesn't really surprise me. My folks both have worked at a small sheriff's office. There might be one, maybe two people patrolling the entire area. More urban areas are understaffed too, usually, so I can see why LE wasn't there immediately. My dinky hometown is even smaller than Clinton and there are an untold number of dirt back roads, even I don't know how they all connect after living there and driving along most of them. Either the guy knew where he was going and he got lucky or a combo of both. In the stories I've read, Angela told Rob the truck was green. But Rob said when he drove by a truck he thought was yellow, he heard his name yelled. We can't even be positive the truck was either one of these colors. Nearby lights and our eyes change that, especially at night. About "it was a small town and everyone knows every car." That is so not true. I didn't even know the cars of some of my fellow students. Lots of trucks, too, and I bet Clinton isn't that much different. One final thought, though it may be outdated by this point, on possible DNA. In many cases, DNA was collected at the time of the crime but never mentioned or focused on because there wasn't anything to do with it. In some cases it was forgotten until a new investigator came across it while taking another look at the case. Don't know if that's the case here, but it's one possibility.

07-27-2010, 12:42 AM	#358
mwcarolina Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Feb 01, 2010 Location: nc Posts: 466	This dude would have to be the criminal of the century to pull off a first time murder having (I presume) never even having a run in with the law before, and get away with it. agreed, that's what i tried to tell this guy. I think Rob isnt guilty because he would have to be a perfect criminal to get away with this. There isnt anything even suspicious about Rob's story really except the guy and that could happen. He didnt' come off like Paul Polis, who had footprints in the snow going towards a shed or a witness saying he wasnt doing what he said he was doing. If it happened just like the reenactment, Rob didn't make a u-turn and instead stopped to hit reverse to turn around (which threw out his transmission) because he was panicked, and also because the street didn't look big enough to make a wide turn. I doubt he would've thought of something like that if he were guilty. yeah i agree, no one could make up a story that good, destroy their transmission and use it in that story. It's harder to make up a lie when you are under pressure than many think. In the stories I've read, Angela told Rob the truck was green. But Rob said when he drove by a truck he thought was yellow, he heard his name yelled. We can't even be positive the truck was either one of these colors. Nearby lights and our eyes change that, especially at night. Very true, lights can play tricks on you. About "it was a small town and everyone knows every car." That is so not true. I didn't even know the cars of some of my fellow students. Lots of trucks, too, and I bet Clinton isn't that much different. agreed, just because someone lives in small town doesnt mean you know everyone there or their cars and like i said, the guy i think did this is an out of towner who came here, saw a young woman, grabbed her, took her in another town, likely raped and killed her, although i hope she's alive. One final thought, though it may be outdated by this point, on possible DNA. In many cases, DNA was collected at the time of the crime but never mentioned or focused on because there wasn't anything to do with it. i heard something about DNA with this case, but not much, i really hope they are able to find this guy, Angela's family NEEDS answers.

07-27-2010, 12:56 AM	#359
mwcarolina Member Frequent Poster Join Date: Feb 01, 2010 Location: nc Posts: 466	Everyone in this forum claims Angela hung out with a friend after dropping Rob off. That's what was "illustrated" in the UM episode. That's the hollywood part of the story. I have yet to see a credible news outlet verify or document that this friend she was going to hang out with saw her, which is VERY important in this case. it's NOT a part of the story. Why in the world would the segment want to show Angela hanging out with her friend????? like i said, what i think happened (although you dont care) is Rob was dropped off, she went to hang out with her friend, then after that she went to a pay phone, called Rob to tell him she was going home and then the truck came and all the stuff Rob said happened. Like MANY have said, in order for Rob to have done this, he would've HAD to have help doing it. For example, who drove the car to hide her body so well that it hasnt been found to this day?? who cleaned up???? how has the police not found out about Rob and his helpers?? things like this are questioned. Not to mention that any time someone challenged his ideas, or even gave proof against them, the posts were ignored, or the person berated (i.e. DING DONG. RING THE BELL). Agreed, he's either shooting the posts down like we have no clue what we are talking about or starting a conspiracy theory. Onlooker wants to throw a man in prison without proper evidence. Take your theory to court and the jury will find him not guilty. Unfortunately, trying to change Onlooker's mind is an exercise in futility, Meg, because he KNOWS that Rob killed her. i know right, in Onlooker's mind Rob is the perfect criminal. He can kill, clean up the scene, come up with a story and even damage his own car to make his story credible. Do you want to know part of the reason that there are no interviews or news articles online, that people can link you to? Because--surprise, surprise--the internet was not in use by the masses at the time. very true, this happened before computers were as popular as they are now. My advice? If you actually care to learn more about the case, and you are unwilling to listen to the opinions of those who have already read up on and studied the case, then take a trip to Clinton, Missouri, and interview people there. Then, you can come back and tell us your findings agreed, because i think that's the only way Onlooker will get the info that Onlooker wants. I am sure the police did a good job investigating Rob.

07-27-2010, 01:50 AM	#360
TracyLynnS Don't Look Up Forum 3000 Club Member Join Date: Jan 07, 2009 Posts: 3,107	RE: discrepancies in reports about the color of the abductor's vehicle. Obviously, it's was dark outside because of the time of day this occurred. Then there are the different lights, traffic lights, parking lot lights, street lights, etc, that reflect off a car, altering the perceived color. I've even read about cases where the eye witnesses insisted a perp's vehicle was red, when it turned out to be a white vehicle with a red traffic light casting that color onto it. Another possibility: color blindness. Three years ago, I realized that my teenage daughter is green/yellow color "blind". At that time, we also noticed that her father has the same problem, just to a lesser extent. In my daughter's case, she sees green objects as having much more yellow in them than they really have. Perhaps this was problem in Rob's description of the abductor's vehicle. And he may not even know he had this odd color blindness problem. At the time Angela was abducted, Rob was about the same age my daughter was when we found out she was partially color blind. Of course, it could always have been reflections from traffic lights shining on the truck in Angela's case. After all, the same traffic light that casts a green glow on objects also casts a yellow glow as the light changes. That could account for why one person saw a green truck and one saw a yellowish truck. Still, I don't know why there are discrepancies in the color description. Could have been fear, stress, mistakes, reflecting light, or even a rare condition limiting the viewer's perception of color.