People on UM that get an undeserved bad rap on this forum

[dynoguy88]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Charles Holden gets a bad rap from some posters on here. Some have suggested that he was somehow responsible for his mother's murder, because he didn't attempt to stop the guy walking towards his mother's house. The guy was just attacked by a knife wielding psycho, obviously he's not going to be of sound mind to make rational decisions.

And when he saw the guy, I believe he was walking towards Charles' house at the time. His mother's house was behind his house. It ended up being a sad twist of fate that the guy broke into the mother's house instead of Charles'.

What exactly do you do in that situation? Beep your horn to get his attention elsewhere? Yell at him to come back and attack you again? You're obviously not going to run him over. You don't have neighbors close by that can help you. What exactly was he supposed to do?

[rhzunam]

Originally Posted by RobinW

Another person I think has gotten some unjust criticism around here is the cab driver in the Dana Point Jane Doe case because he didn't take the victim to her planned destination because she was a few bucks short, and she was found dead at the bottom of a cliff the next morning. I've seen some comments suggest that her death wouldn't have happened if he had just driven her the whole way.

I don't know, I've always believed there was no foul play involved and that the girl was always planning to commit suicide, no matter what. You can criticize the driver for being a cheapskate, but I don't think it's fair to suggest he's somehow culpable in the girl's death. Even if he drove her the whole way, I don't think there's anything he could have done to prevent her from taking her own life.

Maybe he shouldn't be blamed for her death but I still think he acted kind of crummy.

[wiseguy182]

Bobbie Parker.

[TheCars1986]

Originally Posted by dynoguy88

And when he saw the guy, I believe he was walking towards Charles' house at the time. His mother's house was behind his house. It ended up being a sad twist of fate that the guy broke into the mother's house instead of Charles'.

What exactly do you do in that situation? Beep your horn to get his attention elsewhere? Yell at him to come back and attack you again? You're obviously not going to run him over. You don't have neighbors close by that can help you. What exactly was he supposed to do?

Exactly. No neighbors, no cell phones back then. He literally had nothing else to do in that situation but to drive away and call for help from a payphone.

[Oldschooler81]

Originally Posted by RobinW

Another person I think has gotten some unjust criticism around here is the cab driver in the Dana Point Jane Doe case because he didn't take the victim to her planned destination because she was a few bucks short, and she was found dead at the bottom of a cliff the next morning. I've seen some comments suggest that her death wouldn't have happened if he had just driven her the whole way.

I don't know, I've always believed there was no foul play involved and that the girl was always planning to commit suicide, no matter what. You can criticize the driver for being a cheapskate, but I don't think it's fair to suggest he's somehow culpable in the girl's death. Even if he drove her the whole way, I don't think there's anything he could have done to prevent her from taking her own life.

Assuming it went down exactly the way the segment portrayed it, that cabbie was a pretty heartless "by the book" jerk (and that's being polite).

This was around 4am in the middle of nowhere, certainly not the typical passenger trying to jump the fare situation. So if he was too uptight to have the heart to drive a vulnerable young woman another mile or so (even if he had to take $2 out of his own pocket), it would've been better to drop her off at some point BEFORE that where it was well lit and safe. She'd still likely be alive today. Anything's possible and we'll never know, but that'd be a pretty elaborate and painstaking way to commit suicide, so I don't buy it. Plus, how would she know that's where the fare money was going to run out?

Sorry, but it's selfish, stuck up people like that who won't go an inch out of their way for another person who make this world a little worse. I hate to use this cliche, but what if it was your mom/sister/daughter/girlfriend etc. in a one time tight spot like this?

[unsolved88]

Originally Posted by RobinW

Another person I think has gotten some unjust criticism around here is the cab driver in the Dana Point Jane Doe case because he didn't take the victim to her planned destination because she was a few bucks short, and she was found dead at the bottom of a cliff the next morning. I've seen some comments suggest that her death wouldn't have happened if he had just driven her the whole way.

I don't know, I've always believed there was no foul play involved and that the girl was always planning to commit suicide, no matter what. You can criticize the driver for being a cheapskate, but I don't think it's fair to suggest he's somehow culpable in the girl's death. Even if he drove her the whole way, I don't think there's anything he could have done to prevent her from taking her own life.

I agree.

If the segment is to be believed, however, the only thing the cab driver is really guilty of (IMO) is being rude to the young woman when she said she only had $18 on her. He could have simply said "I can take you as far as that will get you. Sorry, but those are the rules." Instead, he heaves an exasperated sigh and groans "Yeah, get in." as if she's being purposely difficult.

But I agree. I think this woman was planning to commit suicide regardless. According to Dana Point Jane Doe's thread on Websleuths, Jane actually mentioned something to the cabbie about her car having broken down and asked him to take her to the Ritz Carlton in Laguna Beach, not Ross Towers as mentioned in the re-enactment. However, when her body was found, her purse contained no wallet, driver's license, or cash. It is therefore assumed that that $18 was the last of her money. If that's the case, that means that even if the cabbie agree to spot her the extra two bucks and take her to the hotel, she wouldn't have had any money to get a room there.

[MegtheEgg86]

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

Bobbie Parker.

Yes. Total Agreement high-five to you. I believe Bobbi Parker is a victim. Even Randolph Dial himself never once claimed she even so much as hinted she had any semblance of feeling for him in the beginning nor any desire to bust him out of prison. I don't doubt she was thoroughly brainwashed over the years. Thank God for her safe return and for men as strong as Randy Parker (who ALSO gets a bad rap on here often).

[RobinW]

Originally Posted by unsolved88

But I agree. I think this woman was planning to commit suicide regardless. According to Dana Point Jane Doe's thread on Websleuths, Jane actually mentioned something to the cabbie about her car having broken down and asked him to take her to the Ritz Carlton in Laguna Beach, not Ross Towers as mentioned in the re-enactment. However, when her body was found, her purse contained no wallet, driver's license, or cash. It is therefore assumed that that $18 was the last of her money. If that's the case, that means that even if the cabbie agree to spot her the extra two bucks and take her to the hotel, she wouldn't have had any money to get a room there.

Yes, according to her Doe Network profile, authorities could find no abandoned vehicles anywhere in the vicinity around that time, so it seems like her story about her car breaking down didn't ring true. I always wondered if she was originally planning to do some sort of Gail Delano scenario where she checked into a hotel to commit suicide, but like you said, she wouldn't have had the money for a room.

[wiseguy182]

Taxicab driver must be a tough job. It's dangerous (Lucie Turmel). Plus, you had to know the area like the back of your hand, at least in the olden days. You have to be familiar with all the one-way routes and such, it's a job I could never do - I don't think. I work nights, and believe me, you meet all sorts of drunks, freaks and weirdos. You never know what somebody like that is capable of. I'm willing to bet this taxi driver had probably seen people skip out on the fare more than a time or two. Plus, you have to figure that he might have been chewed out by his boss if he took someone farther than what they could pay. I'm not comfortable in blaming him for her death. I also don't see how "yeah, get in" can be considered rude.

One name I wanted to mention was Lisa Penz. She gets trashed pretty regularly on these boards, but she didn't bother me. I don't think she was making derogotary remarks about weight, rather she was confused at how somebody who would stick out like a sore thumb (as my mom would say) would go undetected. I also don't think she meant to imply that the entire city of Atlanta was on drugs. I think what she meant was there was at least one person a day who applied that was on drugs. While I do believe that Lisa Penz should have done a background check, I will add that her personnel file was stolen, which must have been a nightmare for her.

My supervisors occasionally do job fairs -- right on site at the workplace. They've told me horror stories and how many people apply, but few are qualified. Some of them you can just tell from the outset you don't want them working for your company. Some just don't have the appropriate appearance or attitude to work in an industry in which you serve the public. I can totally sympathize with Lisa Penz in that sense.

[dynoguy88]

Originally Posted by wiseguy182

One name I wanted to mention was Lisa Penz. She gets trashed pretty regularly on these boards, but she didn't bother me. I don't think she was making derogotary remarks about weight, rather she was confused at how somebody who would stick out like a sore thumb (as my mom would say) would go undetected. I also don't think she meant to imply that the entire city of Atlanta was on drugs. I think what she meant was there was at least one person a day who applied that was on drugs. While I do believe that Lisa Penz should have done a background check, I will add that her personnel file was stolen, which must have been a nightmare for her.

I agree. I think she was merely driving home the point that a ton of unqualified people had tried out for the position at that store. And really, you're going to see more people with issues in a big major city like Atlanta as opposed to a small town because of the population size.

The lack of background check was a major mistake on her part but hardly uncommon. As we learned later in the segment, Bonnie easily pulled off the same heist in dozens of other cities and states before she even got to Atlanta. So there were many people that didn't do background checks on her alone.
Even today, background checks are not as common as many might think.

Although I do have to say that Lisa's delivery on the memorable quotes is pretty funny. The way she said, "you don't get lost in a crowd when you are enormous," will always crack me up.

[SheRaaa]

Originally Posted by Oldschooler81

Assuming it went down exactly the way the segment portrayed it, that cabbie was a pretty heartless "by the book" jerk (and that's being polite).

Sorry, but it's selfish, stuck up people like that who won't go an inch out of their way for another person who make this world a little worse. I hate to use this cliche, but what if it was your mom/sister/daughter/girlfriend etc. in a one time tight spot like this?

I agree. I think many people may get an undeserved bad rap; I do not think the Dana Point cab driver was one of them. If I had been the Jane Doe, I would have REFUSED to exit the vehicle and be alone, even I had honestly run out of money. Go ahead, call the cops. Safer than being out there alone.

I don't think he's legally responsible for her death; morally he behaved like a major jerk. We've sunk pretty low if we think performing a literally effortless action (i.e., not kicking someone out of your vehicle vs. actively kicking them out) that could save someone's life is "too much" to expect.

I don't even think it matters whether she planned to commit suicide; HE didn't know that. In his estimate, she was just a human being whose well-being was clearly not worth a few dollars.

[WishfulDreamer]

What I would like to know is if the account actually happened like it was portrayed in the reenactment? To be fair, she did ask for him to take her as far as 18 bucks would go. But regardless of it being how the cabbie makes his living, I think leaving a young woman in the middle of nowhere like that was pretty bad.

On a sidenote, I've always wondered if she fell or actually jumped.

[wiseguy182]

Sharon Stevens. I'm not normally into lost love segments, but hers was one of the most poignant ones, and I was revolted about all of the comments about her looks. There was even one troll on here who spent half his time making degoratory comments about her appearance, some (perhaps all) of those comments were removed, and the poster was banned (or at least was at one point).

And speaking of which, I definitely don't believe the one guy from elsewhere on the net that claimed Mr. Zielinski was a child abuser and Mrs. Zielinksi was an enabler. Big load of crap, IMO.

[TheCars1986]

Dennis Farina. Just kidding.

[Killarney Rose]

Originally Posted by TheCars1986

Dennis Farina. Just kidding.

No, its true. The poor guy was just doing his job. He couldn't help it that TPTB screwed up UM in the Spike episodes, or that Stack left impossibly large shoes to fill. I always felt sorry for Farina because of that.