Was Jim Burnside a sociopath?

[Mike82]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

But with Jim it is all abuse from the get go.

I think a lot of UM fans tend to have a "comic book" view with the criminals and the good guys, not understanding life is a little more complicated than that. Jim Burnside, however, is someone who came across as pure evil with ice for blood.

While I am not a psychologist of any kind, I can say with 100% certainty he would fit the criteria for antisocial personality disorder (i.e. sociopath/psychopath).

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by Mike82

I think a lot of UM fans tend to have a "comic book" view with the criminals and the good guys, not understanding life is a little more complicated than that. Jim Burnside, however, is someone who came across as pure evil with ice for blood.

While I am not a psychologist of any kind, I can say with 100% certainty he would fit the criteria for antisocial personality disorder (i.e. sociopath/psychopath).

Right. Life is complicated for sure. Many of these cases literally developed overnight. Paul Pollis, Denis DePue, Rob Page, Larry Gibson and perhaps even Steve Page among others if they are guilty that is, are all men who I think led normal lives, were normal husbands and even up to the day of the crime would be considered decent citizens. I doubt Marilyn thought Denis was going to chuck her down the stairs that Easter Sunday in 1990.

But yeah, Jim Burnside..............that's just ugly. Telling your own daughter that you'd kill her too is just demonic. He strikes me as a guy that would give you a horrible vibe from the get go. Annette's mother seemed to think this way.

[dynoguy88]

The only reason the marriage lasted as long as it did was because of Jim’s threats and intimidation; he told her he would kill her parents if she didn’t come back to him.

If he was aware enough, you know it would have had to stick in his craw that his wife didn’t stay with him all those years out of love. It was out of fear.

But if he was a true sociopath, he might been successful at convincing himself that she actually loved him. We’ll never really know.

[Composite Sketch]

Originally Posted by dynoguy88

Seeing that Jim was 46 when he married Annette, he must have had previous relationships. It would be interesting to know how he treated THOSE women.

I've wondered for years if Annette was his first wife or not, as it seemed unlikely that even he would have stayed unmarried until he was in his mid-40s.

It turns out, she was his third wife. Just rewatched his segment and decided to read all the articles linked to Burnside's entry in the UM Wikia. One of them described Burnside as twice-divorced when he married Annette. That, in a way, explains his possessive behaviour (somewhat) - he probably thought having such a young wife would enable him to mould her to how he wanted her to be, and make her completely dependent on him. And, when she wanted to leave - just like his previous two wives, it incensed and enraged him.

And maybe it's just me but I can't join in on the amusement people get from Dave's "large steak" comment in the segment. Maybe because I know that right after that, in the segment, is the slow-motion shot of Annette desperately running away as Jim bears down on her, brandishing that huge knife, with the somber music playing. One of the most memorable UM re-enactment moments for me.

[XCalibur]

Originally Posted by dcguy80

She was a lonely teenage girl and a man was giving her attention. She never stood a chance. She didn't realize she could have done much better than him. Jim Burnside wasn't even a good looking man. He was a pure redneck. He was so gross. If she could have resisted him, she probably would be alive today. On a positive note, both of her daughters are alive and doing very well. Both are married with children of their own. I am curious to know who raised them after Annette's death.

I think Annette's parents did.

I really can't understand why a pretty teenage girl like Annette would be so lonely and desperate as to marry someone thirty years older who wasn't even rich or good looking.

The only thing I can think of is women must outnumber men in some of the areas where these guys live. Only thing that makes sense for them to be desperate is they supposedly are.

[Janel "Jaycee" Miller]

Originally Posted by XCalibur

I think Annette's parents did.

I really can't understand why a pretty teenage girl like Annette would be so lonely and desperate as to marry someone thirty years older who wasn't even rich or good looking.

The only thing I can think of is women must outnumber men in some of the areas where these guys live. Only thing that makes sense for them to be desperate is they supposedly are.

IiRC, Annette had problems making friends after her family moved from Ohio to Florida. Speaking from personal experience, when you go through that, you will welcome attention from just about anybody.

I am not blaming her for what happened, I am simply trying to offer my thoughts on what may have caused the relationship to begin in the first place.

[MediaHoarder]

I think the post hoc diagnosis of Jim's psychology is a bit difficult, but its suffices to say he was not all there.

I also suspect Annette was not all there either. Maybe what today we would recognize as a social disorder or autism. Its one thing to have difficulty making friends when you move, but if your solution is to marry a man old enough to be your father who works as a butcher there are more serious problems.

[soilentgreen]

Originally Posted by MediaHoarder

Its one thing to have difficulty making friends when you move, but if your solution is to marry a man old enough to be your father who works as a butcher there are more serious problems.

She wouldn't be the first young person to be groomed into a relationship by a manipulative older adult, who probably was specifically seeking someone that he could control. Abusers like Burnside are all about control.

[Mike82]

None of us are Psychologists or qualified to diagnose him but yes, I would say with near certainty that he would qualify for a diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder. Assuming the UM portray is accurate he might be the single scariest person in the show's history.

[Taburn27]

Originally Posted by XCalibur

I think Annette's parents did.

I really can't understand why a pretty teenage girl like Annette would be so lonely and desperate as to marry someone thirty years older who wasn't even rich or good looking.

The only thing I can think of is women must outnumber men in some of the areas where these guys live. Only thing that makes sense for them to be desperate is they supposedly are.

Correct. My mom’s parents raised us, Jean and Roy Schappacher.

[Taburn27]

Originally Posted by Composite Sketch

I've wondered for years if Annette was his first wife or not, as it seemed unlikely that even he would have stayed unmarried until he was in his mid-40s.

It turns out, she was his third wife. Just rewatched his segment and decided to read all the articles linked to Burnside's entry in the UM Wikia. One of them described Burnside as twice-divorced when he married Annette. That, in a way, explains his possessive behaviour (somewhat) - he probably thought having such a young wife would enable him to mould her to how he wanted her to be, and make her completely dependent on him. And, when she wanted to leave - just like his previous two wives, it incensed and enraged him.

And maybe it's just me but I can't join in on the amusement people get from Dave's "large steak" comment in the segment. Maybe because I know that right after that, in the segment, is the slow-motion shot of Annette desperately running away as Jim bears down on her, brandishing that huge knife, with the somber music playing. One of the most memorable UM re-enactment moments for me.

Annette was his third wife. His first wife got very sick and ended up in the hospital. He sold off all of her belongings and he took their three boys (Stephen, James and Ricky) and ran off with them. His second wife raised my half brothers until they were grown. That marriage ended somewhat normal and then he met my mom and we all know how that one played out.

[XCalibur]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

It has to be Annette's mother that raised them, no? Either way, just another tragic case of both parents either dying or being in jail and/or dying.

Here is the thing with Jim, yes I believe he was a psycho waiting to blow right from the beginning. Annette was pretty, I can't believe she didn't think she could do better than a guy 28 years older than her. But either way, he charmed her enough for it to work.

But this isn't a case of someone like Denis DePue. With his case, I can see a life he had that was once genuine. A father of 3, a husband. A house, etc. Then a divorce happens and he is perhaps not being treated as fair as he thinks he should be from Marilyn and things blow up one day when he is picking the kids up and he snaps and pushes his wife down the stairs. Everything he did after that was just one bad decision after another. Killing Marilyn. Dumping her body. Hiding for a year or so. Hooking up with another woman, sending letters back to his hometown, and obviously abandoning his kids. Lastly, the near shootout he had with police before taking his own life. Yes, I can see things being very different otherwise. I can see that if the divorce went smoother and he wasn't in a bad mood the day he picked his kids up that this entire thing never happens. Which is sad.

But with Jim it is all abuse from the get go.

For a long time I thought Dennis DePugh might have been a decent guy at one time who just snapped. I still think he might have been. By all accounts, he was never abusive towards Marilyn or the children at least not physically. In fact it was never really specified what caused the friction between then, DePugh of course accused Marilyn of turning the children against him. Its not clear if there was any truth to this but from Dennis's point of view it certainly must have seemed that way because his son not wanting to go with him was the whole catalyst for the fight that day and it seems he blamed Marilyn.

If the reenactment was accurate, it does seem very telling to me that Dennis told his son he wanted to get out of there which indicates he knew he was close to the edge and did not want a confrontation with Marilyn fearing what he might do. Suggesting that the whole thing was not planned that day.

On the other hand, it would have been one thing had he pushed her down the stairs in a fit of rage and she died of a head injury or the fall. But the fact that he callously took her out of the house, lied to his kids he was taking her to the hospital, then shot her in cold blood out on the road is very, very bad and paints him as very cold and wicked. So if he snapped, he did it completely and did not come out of it.

I always felt also that the letters he sent to everyone was just him trying to convince himself as much as anyone else that this was justified.

[TheCars1986]

Annette's coworker Dave passed away in February of this year.