The Tim McClure case - Page 2 - Sitcoms Online Message Boards

DarkDante · 01-21-2008, 01:33 AM

I put him in the same category as Al Henderson (I think thats his name) not only because he was also accused of a casino related death/disappearance but because they both seem to have a lot of trouble explaining their actions and seem to get very upset when their explanation of innocence is challenged. I remember Al Henderson getting very upset when the survailence cameras didn't pick him up playing his fiance's favorite slot machine saying something like "I'm not a technology whiz, I'm an old man I don't know how that stuff works"

Anyhow wiseguy, you actually think McClure is more guilty than Jule Caylor. In the end its all relevant but that surprises me.

wiseguy182 · 01-21-2008, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkDante

Anyhow wiseguy, you actually think McClure is more guilty than Jule Caylor. In the end its all relevant but that surprises me.

Jule is a close second.

kadrmas15 · 01-21-2008, 03:12 AM

Well, I dont know on this one, obviously it doesnt look good for Tim McClure, but there is stuff here that makes zero sense. Knocking off mom for 5 grand? Also, if McClure was planning on doing this WHY would he cancel the credit cards BEFORE his mother was dead? That makes zero sense, McClure is many things but doesnt come off as stupid to me, strange but not stupid. This could have been a mistake on the credit card companies part, again I am not saying it was for sure a mistake, maybe he did cancel them on Friday, but it could have been a mistake, the people that work at these credit card companies as hard as it is to believe are humans being too and fully capable of making a mistake.

I think saying Tim McClure is the guiltiest man on UM is a bit of stretch, yes some of the stuff in his case looked terrible for him, but there were others shown far more guilty than McClure. I just think what some people are doing here is pretty sad, thinking a guy is more likely to kill his mother because he is an eccentric guy. I mean, why would McClure kill his own mother the night of his wedding?

Then again, there are things working against McClure, such as the alabi, he also claimed he went off alone by himself for two hours to play slots on the night of his wedding? Who goes off alone by themselves the night of their wedding for any extended period of time? That I found strange. Also, the casino's, when McClure went searching in the casino parking lots, he looked in everyone except one parking lot, the parking lot where his mother's car and her dead body just happened to be.

I just dont know, McClure just seems eccentric enough to me where he could have been rail roaded. I mean, if McClure did this, why would he admit to looking in any casino parking lot period? Why would he pick up the purse? By the way, the cops played that up, it is entirely possible for McClure to have just found the purse by coincidence along the road, the same thing happened with Jeff Olberholtzer when the cops thought he killed his wife.

It is just a strange case overall, also, polygraphs, I dont know, I am weary of them. 9 times out of 10 if a suspect takes a polygraph given by the police he fails, when he takes one given by the defense, he passes, this is why they arent allowed as evidence and regardless of if McClure and his wife failed polygraphs, I think TM is putting way too much stock into them. Polygraphs are 70 percent accurate if I remember right, guilty people pass them, innocent people fail them, far from accurate.

I dont think they would have got a conviction in this case had they tried it, yes in 1992 the Carson City cops who appearantly never bothered to try to form any other suspects or really do any investigation except for nailing Tim McClure, issued a warrant for his arrest without a grand jury indictment.

Usually in murder cases they dont arrest people until after the indictment, so that made this case stink almost instantly to me when the cops arrested him before an indictment which tells me they were after him from the start and never did an investigation into any other possibilities. But in 1992, McClure was arrested but was released shortly thereafter when the Douglas County, Nevada grand jury refused to indict McClure.

DarkDante · 01-21-2008, 03:33 AM

With McClure much like kadrmas15 I have problem scratching out motive. I believe this is the infamous segment where they interview an investigator who says "People have been bumped off for a lot less than 5 Gs"

The thing is though (and this is coming from someone who didn't have a great relationship with either of his parents) it in my mind takes a great deal of hatred for someone to just bump off their mother. I believe if McClure is guilty that this would've likely been a crime of passion and probably has nothing to do with the insurance.

The thing is that we don't have anyone who has come out and said Tim McClure had a bad relationship with his mother. Could it be possible that Tim's wife and mother didn't get along and some type of violence erupted from that? - I dunno but I still find the insurance policy alone wouldn't provide enough fuel for Tim McClure to murder his mother. But then again nobody knows for sure the character makeup of McClure so you really can't say for sure.

crystaldawn · 01-21-2008, 09:31 AM

Yea I figured I'd get raked over the coals overnight after I posted that.

Thats okay you guys are never going to convince me. Another thing that doesn't make much sense if you guys think he's guilty, why in the world would he choose to kill his mother in a pretty public place on his wedding day of all days?

You know there's a reason lie detector tests aren't admissible in court. He did say he was nervous taking it because the guy administering it made him close his eyes during it! I have never heard of that and surely if it wasn't true the guy who gave him the test would speak up. Didn't he go looking for the purse even before she was found? Maybe he just drove around looking for any clues and found it. I'm assuming it wasn't too far from where she was found. I can see the whole scenario about him having a feeling that kept him from not going into that particular parking lot. Haven't you guys ever got a bad feeling about something and just couldn't explain it but it caused you to alter your plans.

We don't know if anyone remembers seeing him. He was hoping they would and in fact after the segment aired there could have been a lot of people call in and corroborate the story (remember there wasn't even enough evidence to try him!). Like I said considering this phone operator from the credit card company probably fields dozens of calls each day, you don't think its possible for her to get confused about which one was Tim and mistakenly write down something? The biggest red flag and you guys don't even have a rational explanation for this was why in the world when they didn't even have enough evidence to try him would he open up this can of worms and ask for UM's help in investigating his mom's murder??? I mean the guys's not stupid, if he wasn't arrested for the crime and was guilty he would surely want to leave well enough alone. The act of calling UM sounds like the act of a devoted son who really wants to find out who killed his mother.

You guys can throw rotten tomatoes at me all you like but I still say innocent.

kadrmas15 · 01-21-2008, 09:36 AM

Well, obviously the cop was right, people have been killed for a lot less than 5 grand, the problem is, those are usually random armed robberies that go bad. I would just think if money was someone's motive that first off they would want to get a lot more money and also they wouldnt go to such elaborate lengths to conceal it, just for 5 grand, even in 1983, 5 grand was not an impressive amount of money. If McClure did this, I can guarentee that money was not the motive.

I dont know, to me, it just doesnt make sense that McClure did this, it is kind of one of those things, you cant prove he did it and you cant really prove that he didnt, so in my book that makes him innocent until proven otherwise. In this case they didnt have the evidence in 1983, they didnt have it in 1992 when the cops went to the unusual step of arresting him for murder without an indictment and he hadnt even been charged by the DA's office, neither the Douglas County, Nevada grand jury nor the Douglas County, Nevada District Attorney's office went for it because frankly, they would have lost the case.

The problem for McClure is, he basically cant prove where he was during a two hour period of time when it is presumed his mother was murdered, but this was Carson City, Nevada, lots of people around, so it wasnt like McClure is the only one that could have knocked off mom. The thing I always found odd, was that McClure's mom sat in her car in a parking lot of a casino for over two days in plain view and no one noticed a dead woman was in the car?

Here is the thing, McClure admitted he didnt search the parking lot of the casino where his mom's car was found, he admitted that was the only casino parking lot he didnt search. Why would he admit that if he was the murderer? Why wouldnt he just say he searched it and didnt see the car? He could have, they couldnt prove that he was lying, since hundreds of people at least saw her car during those two days with her dead body in plain view and no one noticed.

Todd Mueller · 01-21-2008, 11:27 AM

Aww, heck... I need to watch this again today now.

I'm pretty sure, IIRC, that the purse was not only not known to be missing when Tim found it, but also in a ditch on some remote road. I seem to remember him saying he was searching ditches for his mom's purse and the cop said, "Huh, that's funny since no one said it was missing." It was certainly not near or at the scene of the crime.

$5,000 doesn't seem like much until you have nothing. Also, it may not even have been something that big. What if they got into an argument over his new wife and Tim flipped out? Maybe unlikely, but my point is that it doesn't take much in the heat of the moment. I'll admit I don't know his motive to do this, I just think his story has more holes than truths.

Lie detector tests are not admissible in court because they aren't perfect. In fact, all they do is show patterns of deception and those are pretty accurate. The fact that Tim showed so much deception and his wife did on the question "Do you know who murdered Mrs. McClure" says a lot.

The credit card issue we could debate all day. The purse, lie detector, and Tim having no alibi??? Not so much.

Tim didn't strike me as being bright at all. If he was, he'd have better answers than just saying "I don't know."

It's okay CD, I'll get over you being wrong on this one. Just this once, though.

Todd Mueller · 01-21-2008, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kadrmas15

Here is the thing, McClure admitted he didnt search the parking lot of the casino where his mom's car was found, he admitted that was the only casino parking lot he didnt search. Why would he admit that if he was the murderer? Why wouldnt he just say he searched it and didnt see the car? He could have, they couldnt prove that he was lying, since hundreds of people at least saw her car during those two days with her dead body in plain view and no one noticed.

Why search casino lots at all? For all he knew, as someone else stated, she was at a Pizza Hut or the laudrymat. Why look through casino lots, and then everyone but where she was found?

Tim is almost clairvoyant about some things like her being in a casino lot and her purse being missing then knowing where to find it.

Yet he doesn't have an alibi anyone can substantiate???? Hmm...

crystaldawn · 01-21-2008, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Mueller

It's okay CD, I'll get over you being wrong on this one. Just this once, though.

Yep, right back at ya....

Todd Mueller · 01-21-2008, 01:48 PM

Well, I just watched the Tim McClure case again. Here's a few of the facts from the broadcast (better than just my shaky memory...):

I did have one thing wrong (*gasp* Imagine that!

) I was getting confused with another case about the purse. Tim did not find the purse in the story, but he was driving the road between Lake Tahoe and Reno looking along the sides of it for her purse. The cop said he found that very odd since no one knew it was missing. Tim said he thought it would be a good idea to look for it, but had no explanation how he knew it was missing when no one else did.

The cop said when asked about why they bombed the lie detector test, neither Tim nor his wife had any explanation at all.

Tim said he walked his mom to her car and then gambled alone for 2 hours.

NO ONE could place Tim and his wife anywhere between midnight and 6am, despite the fact they visited a dance club and several other places. (Again, Tim was 6'5" and in a tuxedo top.)

Tim's mom took out a $10g life insurance policy a few months earlier. He had "no idea why" and it was split between Tim and his sister.

The cop said $5g is not a lot of money but he said "people have been killed for less."

Terri McClure was shot twice in the head. Only her purse was missing. Her jewelry was still on her.

The credit card company rep wrote down the date that Tim called to cancel the card. The cop said that when they interviewed her, she was adament it was Friday and not Monday. They show the original credit card company memo in the story.

He drove the lots of all the casinos between Lake Tahoe and Reno, even though he had no idea to believe she would be at one. All but the one she was found at.

_________________________________________________________________
**********************************************************

I don't know if Tim is guilty or not, as there is no physical evidence. However, watching that story again, he is one of the LEAST credible people I have ever seen, based on his story and how he acted in his interview. There is no strong motive unless they fought about him getting married or something. But there is a ton of circumstantial evidence and it all points to Tim either doing the deed or knowing who did. I have no doubt he did it or is in on it even though the physical evidence isn't there.

Jule Caylor has more of an alibi and a story than Tim McClure, and we ALL know that he is guilty as sin!

Oh, well... Just another

post for me!

kadrmas15 · 01-21-2008, 03:40 PM

Well, Caylor actually doesnt have much of an alabi, his alabi is that he drove Dottie to the bart station and she disappeared out of thin air. Now Jule has changed his story and said he never drove her there. Dottie was his supposed alabi and she is missing so Caylor doesnt have much of a story.

TM, I get you are trying to burn Tim McClure at the stake but come up with some better stuff. Why is that so unusual he searched the casino parking lots? That is where his mother was last seen, maybe he figured she was kidnapped and her car would still be there?

The lie detectors you overrate, but that is to be expected. Fact of the matter is, they are 70 percent accurate at best, a tool, hence why they are not allowed in court, except for when a person fails, then magically they find their way in some how, usually through over zealous prosecutors. Yet in this case, no indictment, why? You say the case is so rock solid, yet no indictment, that is because it isnt rock solid. They cant place that gun in Tim McClure's hands, they cant prove he had anything to do with his mother's death other than innuendo and cheap tabloid headlines.

You act like because they cant explain why they failed they are guilty automatically. Well, actually Tim did explain why he failed it, he was nervous, extremely nervous, the person that worked for the cops who was giving the test told him to keep his eyes closed, no doubt to make him more nervous and make it more likely he would fail the test.

If Terri McClure knew for sure, no doubt, that Tim murdered his mother would she stay with him? No. Unless Terri McClure herself murdered Tim's mother, like I said, I dont know if Tim or his wife were involved with the murder, but the evidence is hardly rock solid. Honestly, most of you think he is guilty, because you think he is a strange, weird looking guy. If he looked and acted "normal" (whatever the heck that is supposed to mean) than you wouldnt think twice about McClure, you would think he was innocent.

Also one more thing, while it hurts McClure that no one could substaniate his alabi, it doesnt necessarily mean it isnt true. This was a crowded casino in the holiday season, I'm sure regardless of what Tim looked like, people were not paying attention to him and wouldnt remember him from the next guy that came in, lots of the visitors to the casino were from out of state I am sure and probably had no idea a case was going on and if Tim was playing slots he would be sitting down probably so they wouldnt be able to tell his height.

Todd Mueller · 01-21-2008, 06:05 PM

Oh, boy... You are reading WAY too much into what I'm saying here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kadrmas15

Well, Caylor actually doesnt have much of an alabi...

I know. That part was a joke.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kadrmas15

TM, I get you are trying to burn Tim McClure at the stake but come up with some better stuff.

I never said I want to "burn Tim McClure at the stake." I said I think he is guilty and his story is about the shakiest I've ever heard. You're putting words in my mouth. My opinion is that he is guilty, that's it. You are making this into something it's not and I'd appreciate it if you would STOP doing that.

I've outlined, several times in this thread, why I think he is guilty. Innocent people don't do things that make them look guilty like Tim McClure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kadrmas15

You act like because they cant explain why they failed they are guilty automatically. Well, actually Tim did explain why he failed it, he was nervous, extremely nervous, the person that worked for the cops who was giving the test told him to keep his eyes closed, no doubt to make him more nervous and make it more likely he would fail the test.

Lie detector tests are more accurate than you say but we could debate that all day.

Just remember, you technically don't "pass" or "fail." The tests show patterns of deception based on subconscious responses (pulse rate, breathing rate, etc.). His test showed lots of deception BY HIS OWN ADMISSION. Just "being nervous" won't make you fail a lie detector test more than being confident will make you pass it. And if he's nervous, maybe he has something to hide. And yes, guilty people sometimes do consent to polygraph tests only to fail them. Not unheard of.

The reason they aren't allowed in court is because they aren't fool proof. DNA and fingerprints have a tiny error potential, while lie detectors aren't to that level. But they are surpisingly more accurate than you would portray.

Also, are you saying the cops are trying to frame him?!? That's a new one. Closing your eyes shouldn't make you so nervous that you fail. Also, there are certain ways you have to answer a lie detector test. I'm sorry if Tim didn't like it, but if that's his only excuse for why he was being deceptive (AND HIS WIFE) then that makes him even less credible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kadrmas15

If Terri McClure knew for sure, no doubt, that Tim murdered his mother would she stay with him?

Plenty of spouses stay with guilty people. Plus maybe she was in on it? Your point here holds no weight with me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kadrmas15

Honestly, most of you think he is guilty, because you think he is a strange, weird looking guy.

Me laughing at how he looks and me thinking he is "guilty of murder" based on his looks are NOT the same thing. Again, you're putting words in my mouth and others here. I think he is guilty by facts, albeit circumstantial, but not based on how he looks.

Am I not allowed to poke fun at someone in a UM case?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kadrmas15

Also one more thing, while it hurts McClure that no one could substaniate his alabi, it doesnt necessarily mean it isnt true.

No, but having no alibi for SIX HOURS sure gives him plenty of opportunity. And he claims to have been at places where plenty of people should have seen him, yet no one did.

__________________________________________________________

Look, I think he's guilty... that's my opinion. If you think he is innocent, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

If you want to discuss the facts, I'd be more than happy to do that. But please stop accusing myself and others of saying things we aren't. I'm not condemning this guy to hell. I just think he is guilty based on his own story.

wiseguy182 · 01-21-2008, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystaldawn

Another thing that doesn't make much sense if you guys think he's guilty, why in the world would he choose to kill his mother in a pretty public place on his wedding day of all days?

that confused me as well, you would think someone would have noticed her over the course of 3 days. I still think it's probable someone murdered her elsewhere and drove her there: which again would indicate Tim since he was probably going for a 'murder her and drive the car to a casino/airport/bus station' like Al Henderson, Jim Harrison or Jule Caylor. Had this instance been true, then Tim would have had even more time on his hands to clean up, etc.

wiseguy182 · 01-21-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Mueller

The credit card company rep wrote down the date that Tim called to cancel the card. The cop said that when they interviewed her, she was adament it was Friday and not Monday. They show the original credit card company memo in the story.

good point, thanks for bringing that up. Of course none of us know the credit card rep's job, but in my job, not only is all of my stuff dated, but I put it in a nightly packet: so I can be pretty darn certain about the date of a certain document. I tend to agree with the rep.

wiseguy182 · 01-21-2008, 07:18 PM

here's the thing:

if your mother is murdered, and you are innocent, and you are getting faced with alot of accusations, and you have a chance to go on a nationally televised show, do you:

A) try to find your mother's killer
B) try to clear your name

Now, finding your mother's killer should be his top priority, even if he is innocent. Can't really blame him for wanting to clear his name if he is innocent, but finding the killer should take priority over that. Stack himself at the begininning of the segment says Tim's call was unusual because he only asked to clear his name. This is further backed up by Tim saying 'if anyone saw ME the night of ..." and not "if you saw anyone attack my mother the night of..." Tim's extreme laid-backness (word?) doesn't really help matters at all. Granted, some people are more emotional than others, but Tim is extremely laid back for someone whose mother was murdered. Some family members are cry/devastated, others are pissed off and want to find the murderer real bad. Tim is laid back and is only interested in clearing his name.

But here is another interesting point: Tim says that he's baffled that he is considered a suspect. But why? Family members are usually the first people look at, so why is Tim suprised? I think it's because he thought he could get away with it. I think he just figured he would dump the car to make it look like she was robbed, but the jewerly was still there. and no signs of a struggle. And Tim probably didn't plan on so many things against him popping up.

01-21-2008, 09:31 AM	#20
crystaldawn Member Forum 4000 Club Member Join Date: Dec 17, 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,261	Yea I figured I'd get raked over the coals overnight after I posted that. Thats okay you guys are never going to convince me. Another thing that doesn't make much sense if you guys think he's guilty, why in the world would he choose to kill his mother in a pretty public place on his wedding day of all days? You know there's a reason lie detector tests aren't admissible in court. He did say he was nervous taking it because the guy administering it made him close his eyes during it! I have never heard of that and surely if it wasn't true the guy who gave him the test would speak up. Didn't he go looking for the purse even before she was found? Maybe he just drove around looking for any clues and found it. I'm assuming it wasn't too far from where she was found. I can see the whole scenario about him having a feeling that kept him from not going into that particular parking lot. Haven't you guys ever got a bad feeling about something and just couldn't explain it but it caused you to alter your plans. We don't know if anyone remembers seeing him. He was hoping they would and in fact after the segment aired there could have been a lot of people call in and corroborate the story (remember there wasn't even enough evidence to try him!). Like I said considering this phone operator from the credit card company probably fields dozens of calls each day, you don't think its possible for her to get confused about which one was Tim and mistakenly write down something? The biggest red flag and you guys don't even have a rational explanation for this was why in the world when they didn't even have enough evidence to try him would he open up this can of worms and ask for UM's help in investigating his mom's murder??? I mean the guys's not stupid, if he wasn't arrested for the crime and was guilty he would surely want to leave well enough alone. The act of calling UM sounds like the act of a devoted son who really wants to find out who killed his mother. You guys can throw rotten tomatoes at me all you like but I still say innocent.
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01-21-2008, 01:33 AM	#16
DarkDante Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 27, 2002 Posts: 1,569	I put him in the same category as Al Henderson (I think thats his name) not only because he was also accused of a casino related death/disappearance but because they both seem to have a lot of trouble explaining their actions and seem to get very upset when their explanation of innocence is challenged. I remember Al Henderson getting very upset when the survailence cameras didn't pick him up playing his fiance's favorite slot machine saying something like "I'm not a technology whiz, I'm an old man I don't know how that stuff works" Anyhow wiseguy, you actually think McClure is more guilty than Jule Caylor. In the end its all relevant but that surprises me.

01-21-2008, 03:12 AM	#18
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	Well, I dont know on this one, obviously it doesnt look good for Tim McClure, but there is stuff here that makes zero sense. Knocking off mom for 5 grand? Also, if McClure was planning on doing this WHY would he cancel the credit cards BEFORE his mother was dead? That makes zero sense, McClure is many things but doesnt come off as stupid to me, strange but not stupid. This could have been a mistake on the credit card companies part, again I am not saying it was for sure a mistake, maybe he did cancel them on Friday, but it could have been a mistake, the people that work at these credit card companies as hard as it is to believe are humans being too and fully capable of making a mistake. I think saying Tim McClure is the guiltiest man on UM is a bit of stretch, yes some of the stuff in his case looked terrible for him, but there were others shown far more guilty than McClure. I just think what some people are doing here is pretty sad, thinking a guy is more likely to kill his mother because he is an eccentric guy. I mean, why would McClure kill his own mother the night of his wedding? Then again, there are things working against McClure, such as the alabi, he also claimed he went off alone by himself for two hours to play slots on the night of his wedding? Who goes off alone by themselves the night of their wedding for any extended period of time? That I found strange. Also, the casino's, when McClure went searching in the casino parking lots, he looked in everyone except one parking lot, the parking lot where his mother's car and her dead body just happened to be. I just dont know, McClure just seems eccentric enough to me where he could have been rail roaded. I mean, if McClure did this, why would he admit to looking in any casino parking lot period? Why would he pick up the purse? By the way, the cops played that up, it is entirely possible for McClure to have just found the purse by coincidence along the road, the same thing happened with Jeff Olberholtzer when the cops thought he killed his wife. It is just a strange case overall, also, polygraphs, I dont know, I am weary of them. 9 times out of 10 if a suspect takes a polygraph given by the police he fails, when he takes one given by the defense, he passes, this is why they arent allowed as evidence and regardless of if McClure and his wife failed polygraphs, I think TM is putting way too much stock into them. Polygraphs are 70 percent accurate if I remember right, guilty people pass them, innocent people fail them, far from accurate. I dont think they would have got a conviction in this case had they tried it, yes in 1992 the Carson City cops who appearantly never bothered to try to form any other suspects or really do any investigation except for nailing Tim McClure, issued a warrant for his arrest without a grand jury indictment. Usually in murder cases they dont arrest people until after the indictment, so that made this case stink almost instantly to me when the cops arrested him before an indictment which tells me they were after him from the start and never did an investigation into any other possibilities. But in 1992, McClure was arrested but was released shortly thereafter when the Douglas County, Nevada grand jury refused to indict McClure.

01-21-2008, 03:33 AM	#19
DarkDante Member Senior Member Join Date: Jul 27, 2002 Posts: 1,569	With McClure much like kadrmas15 I have problem scratching out motive. I believe this is the infamous segment where they interview an investigator who says "People have been bumped off for a lot less than 5 Gs" The thing is though (and this is coming from someone who didn't have a great relationship with either of his parents) it in my mind takes a great deal of hatred for someone to just bump off their mother. I believe if McClure is guilty that this would've likely been a crime of passion and probably has nothing to do with the insurance. The thing is that we don't have anyone who has come out and said Tim McClure had a bad relationship with his mother. Could it be possible that Tim's wife and mother didn't get along and some type of violence erupted from that? - I dunno but I still find the insurance policy alone wouldn't provide enough fuel for Tim McClure to murder his mother. But then again nobody knows for sure the character makeup of McClure so you really can't say for sure.

01-21-2008, 09:36 AM	#21
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	Well, obviously the cop was right, people have been killed for a lot less than 5 grand, the problem is, those are usually random armed robberies that go bad. I would just think if money was someone's motive that first off they would want to get a lot more money and also they wouldnt go to such elaborate lengths to conceal it, just for 5 grand, even in 1983, 5 grand was not an impressive amount of money. If McClure did this, I can guarentee that money was not the motive. I dont know, to me, it just doesnt make sense that McClure did this, it is kind of one of those things, you cant prove he did it and you cant really prove that he didnt, so in my book that makes him innocent until proven otherwise. In this case they didnt have the evidence in 1983, they didnt have it in 1992 when the cops went to the unusual step of arresting him for murder without an indictment and he hadnt even been charged by the DA's office, neither the Douglas County, Nevada grand jury nor the Douglas County, Nevada District Attorney's office went for it because frankly, they would have lost the case. The problem for McClure is, he basically cant prove where he was during a two hour period of time when it is presumed his mother was murdered, but this was Carson City, Nevada, lots of people around, so it wasnt like McClure is the only one that could have knocked off mom. The thing I always found odd, was that McClure's mom sat in her car in a parking lot of a casino for over two days in plain view and no one noticed a dead woman was in the car? Here is the thing, McClure admitted he didnt search the parking lot of the casino where his mom's car was found, he admitted that was the only casino parking lot he didnt search. Why would he admit that if he was the murderer? Why wouldnt he just say he searched it and didnt see the car? He could have, they couldnt prove that he was lying, since hundreds of people at least saw her car during those two days with her dead body in plain view and no one noticed.

01-21-2008, 11:27 AM	#22
Todd Mueller Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 11, 2005 Posts: 1,626	Aww, heck... I need to watch this again today now. I'm pretty sure, IIRC, that the purse was not only not known to be missing when Tim found it, but also in a ditch on some remote road. I seem to remember him saying he was searching ditches for his mom's purse and the cop said, "Huh, that's funny since no one said it was missing." It was certainly not near or at the scene of the crime. $5,000 doesn't seem like much until you have nothing. Also, it may not even have been something that big. What if they got into an argument over his new wife and Tim flipped out? Maybe unlikely, but my point is that it doesn't take much in the heat of the moment. I'll admit I don't know his motive to do this, I just think his story has more holes than truths. Lie detector tests are not admissible in court because they aren't perfect. In fact, all they do is show patterns of deception and those are pretty accurate. The fact that Tim showed so much deception and his wife did on the question "Do you know who murdered Mrs. McClure" says a lot. The credit card issue we could debate all day. The purse, lie detector, and Tim having no alibi??? Not so much. Tim didn't strike me as being bright at all. If he was, he'd have better answers than just saying "I don't know." It's okay CD, I'll get over you being wrong on this one. Just this once, though.

01-21-2008, 01:48 PM	#25
Todd Mueller Member Senior Member Join Date: Feb 11, 2005 Posts: 1,626	Well, I just watched the Tim McClure case again. Here's a few of the facts from the broadcast (better than just my shaky memory...): I did have one thing wrong (gasp Imagine that! ) I was getting confused with another case about the purse. Tim did not find the purse in the story, but he was driving the road between Lake Tahoe and Reno looking along the sides of it for her purse. The cop said he found that very odd since no one knew it was missing. Tim said he thought it would be a good idea to look for it, but had no explanation how he knew it was missing when no one else did. The cop said when asked about why they bombed the lie detector test, neither Tim nor his wife had any explanation at all. Tim said he walked his mom to her car and then gambled alone for 2 hours. NO ONE could place Tim and his wife anywhere between midnight and 6am, despite the fact they visited a dance club and several other places. (Again, Tim was 6'5" and in a tuxedo top.) Tim's mom took out a $10g life insurance policy a few months earlier. He had "no idea why" and it was split between Tim and his sister. The cop said $5g is not a lot of money but he said "people have been killed for less." Terri McClure was shot twice in the head. Only her purse was missing. Her jewelry was still on her. The credit card company rep wrote down the date that Tim called to cancel the card. The cop said that when they interviewed her, she was adament it was Friday and not Monday. They show the original credit card company memo in the story. He drove the lots of all the casinos between Lake Tahoe and Reno, even though he had no idea to believe she would be at one. All but the one she was found at. _________________________________________________________________ ********************************************************** I don't know if Tim is guilty or not, as there is no physical evidence. However, watching that story again, he is one of the LEAST credible people I have ever seen, based on his story and how he acted in his interview. There is no strong motive unless they fought about him getting married or something. But there is a ton of circumstantial evidence and it all points to Tim either doing the deed or knowing who did. I have no doubt he did it or is in on it even though the physical evidence isn't there. Jule Caylor has more of an alibi and a story than Tim McClure, and we ALL know that he is guilty as sin! Oh, well... Just another post for me!

01-21-2008, 03:40 PM	#26
kadrmas15 Retired from Board 03/03/11 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 11, 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,910	Well, Caylor actually doesnt have much of an alabi, his alabi is that he drove Dottie to the bart station and she disappeared out of thin air. Now Jule has changed his story and said he never drove her there. Dottie was his supposed alabi and she is missing so Caylor doesnt have much of a story. TM, I get you are trying to burn Tim McClure at the stake but come up with some better stuff. Why is that so unusual he searched the casino parking lots? That is where his mother was last seen, maybe he figured she was kidnapped and her car would still be there? The lie detectors you overrate, but that is to be expected. Fact of the matter is, they are 70 percent accurate at best, a tool, hence why they are not allowed in court, except for when a person fails, then magically they find their way in some how, usually through over zealous prosecutors. Yet in this case, no indictment, why? You say the case is so rock solid, yet no indictment, that is because it isnt rock solid. They cant place that gun in Tim McClure's hands, they cant prove he had anything to do with his mother's death other than innuendo and cheap tabloid headlines. You act like because they cant explain why they failed they are guilty automatically. Well, actually Tim did explain why he failed it, he was nervous, extremely nervous, the person that worked for the cops who was giving the test told him to keep his eyes closed, no doubt to make him more nervous and make it more likely he would fail the test. If Terri McClure knew for sure, no doubt, that Tim murdered his mother would she stay with him? No. Unless Terri McClure herself murdered Tim's mother, like I said, I dont know if Tim or his wife were involved with the murder, but the evidence is hardly rock solid. Honestly, most of you think he is guilty, because you think he is a strange, weird looking guy. If he looked and acted "normal" (whatever the heck that is supposed to mean) than you wouldnt think twice about McClure, you would think he was innocent. Also one more thing, while it hurts McClure that no one could substaniate his alabi, it doesnt necessarily mean it isnt true. This was a crowded casino in the holiday season, I'm sure regardless of what Tim looked like, people were not paying attention to him and wouldnt remember him from the next guy that came in, lots of the visitors to the casino were from out of state I am sure and probably had no idea a case was going on and if Tim was playing slots he would be sitting down probably so they wouldnt be able to tell his height.

01-21-2008, 07:18 PM	#30
wiseguy182 Member Forum Veteran Join Date: Apr 11, 2006 Location: Wendy's salad bar Posts: 7,030	here's the thing: if your mother is murdered, and you are innocent, and you are getting faced with alot of accusations, and you have a chance to go on a nationally televised show, do you: A) try to find your mother's killer B) try to clear your name Now, finding your mother's killer should be his top priority, even if he is innocent. Can't really blame him for wanting to clear his name if he is innocent, but finding the killer should take priority over that. Stack himself at the begininning of the segment says Tim's call was unusual because he only asked to clear his name. This is further backed up by Tim saying 'if anyone saw ME the night of ..." and not "if you saw anyone attack my mother the night of..." Tim's extreme laid-backness (word?) doesn't really help matters at all. Granted, some people are more emotional than others, but Tim is extremely laid back for someone whose mother was murdered. Some family members are cry/devastated, others are pissed off and want to find the murderer real bad. Tim is laid back and is only interested in clearing his name. But here is another interesting point: Tim says that he's baffled that he is considered a suspect. But why? Family members are usually the first people look at, so why is Tim suprised? I think it's because he thought he could get away with it. I think he just figured he would dump the car to make it look like she was robbed, but the jewerly was still there. and no signs of a struggle. And Tim probably didn't plan on so many things against him popping up.