Zodiac/Unabomber

[Linda12345]

Originally Posted by Thiussat

I will concede, however, that the one thing Ted does have going for him is that he is a known killer.

Have you ever read the psychiatric report that was done after Ted's arrest? I believe it can still be found online.

I have read Sally Johnson's Psych report on Ted - more than once over the years. The report is quite interesting in and of itself and reveals some interesting insight into the mind of Ted Kaczynski. Douglas Oswell, in his new book, The Unabomber and the Zodiac, points out that within Dr. Johnson’s report, there’s an interesting revelation that is almost overlooked as it relates to TK’s feelings in the early 1970’s – well before the Unabomber struck.

From the Sally Johnson Report:
He wrote in his journal about him not fitting into organized society and not wanting to fit into it, and seeking avenues of escape from it. In his words in the early 1970s, he wrote "True I would not fit into the present society in any case but that is not an intolerable situation. What makes a situation intolerable is the fact that in all probability, the values that I detest, will soon be achieved through science, an utterly complete and permanent victory throughout the whole world, with a total extrication of everything I value. Through super human computers and mind control there simply will be no place for a rebellious person to hide and my kind of people will vanish forever from the earth. It's not merely the fact that I cannot fit into society that has induced me to rebel, as violently as I have, it is the fact that I can see society made possible by science inexorably imposing on me."

Near the end of his autobiography in 1979, Mr. Kaczynski describes his motives for writing, to include that he intended to start killing people and that when caught, he was concerned people would perceive him to be a "sickie." His writings were an effort to prevent the facts of his psychology from being misrepresented. He also describes some type of relief, sexual or otherwise, he obtains by writing. He describes his sources of hatred as his perceived social rejection and the "fact that organized society frustrates my very powerful urge for physical freedom and personal autonomy." He also describes experiencing anger from other sources and then turning his hatred towards organized society.

Note that although the Unabomber attacks didn’t begin until approximately 1978, Ted’s own words in the early 70’s indicate that he has already rebelled “violently.” In what manner had he rebelled this way? And, what were the “other sources” that made him turn his hatred towards organized society?

I have been intrigued by the study of Ted Kaczynski and especially the similarities shared between both he and the unknown Zodiac Killer. The study of each alone is fascinating; however, the parallels of the two combined are extraordinary.

[Linda12345]

Originally Posted by SiberianKiss

wasn't that sketch done long ago? he was caught many years after the witness saw him and it did end up being the unabomber he saw?

The sketch was prepared after the Unabomber was seen by a witness to the bomb that exploded in 1987 and injured a computer store worker. The famous Unabomber sketch depicts a suspect with a striking, square jaw, parallel to the Zodiac sketch which sports the same, striking, square jaw. Ted was actually identified initially, though, through his writings; in particular, his Manifesto when he demanded it be published. His brother's wife, initially recognized similarities in the context and had her husband, David, read it. After realizing that there were several writing traits and similar views within the document that were definitely Ted-like, he went to someone who could compare known writings of his Ted to the Manifesto written by the Unabomber. When the results came back in the positive, he felt he had to notify authorities.

[Thiussat]

Zodiac's MO also fits into the psych report of Ted K. Someone who feels socially isolated like Ted would likely find young people at lovers lanes tempting targets. But then again, many serial killers posess a similar psychology.

It just appears to me that Zodiac's correspondence letters were a bit too banal to be from Ted. Ted, in his known Unabomber writings, seems a bit, shall we say, more mature. Ted also had a political/social agenda. The Zodiac seemed to have no agenda other than terrorizing the city and making fun of the "blue meannies." Again, the Zodiac seemed sort of like an overgrown child in his writings.

The "Deer Lodge, Montana" comment reported by one of the survivng victims is a point of contention. My memory is not perfect on this since it has been a while since I read about it, but either the witness has retracted the "Deer Lodge" statement or the police report detailing the "Deer Lodge" statement was in error. It seems like the police report may have erroneously named "Montana" as the state, but the witness remembers another state being mentioned. At any rate, this Montana connection is a strong point of debate.

[Linda12345]

Originally Posted by Thiussat

It just appears to me that Zodiac's correspondence letters were a bit too banal to be from Ted. Ted, in his known Unabomber writings, seems a bit, shall we say, more mature. Ted also had a political/social agenda. The Zodiac seemed to have no agenda other than terrorizing the city and making fun of the "blue meannies." Again, the Zodiac seemed sort of like an overgrown child in his writings.

Ted's formal writings are definitely more "mature" in their presentation; however, many other documents written by Ted (letters, journals, etc.) display similar, sarcastic tone, and on occassion, immaturety in their nature. THE UNABOMBER AND THE ZODIAC does an outstanding job in addressing the writings of both Zodiac and Ted Kaczynski.

Originally Posted by Thiussat

The "Deer Lodge, Montana" comment reported by one of the survivng victims is a point of contention. My memory is not perfect on this since it has been a while since I read about it, but either the witness has retracted the "Deer Lodge" statement or the police report detailing the "Deer Lodge" statement was in error. It seems like the police report may have erroneously named "Montana" as the state, but the witness remembers another state being mentioned. At any rate, this Montana connection is a strong point of debate.

The initial police report indicated that while they were waiting for the ambulance (9/27/69), Officer White tried to speak with the victims and Bryan Hartnell said that the suspect said he was an ex-co from Colorado. However, the next day in the hospital, Bryan elaborated by saying that the suspect told him he had escaped from ________ Lodge State Prison, Montana. He couldn't remember what Lodge, but the report states that it could possibly be "Deer Lodge," Montana. I think (but am not positive) that even at a later date, Bryan concurred that it was something Lodge, Montana, but I don't have date on this additional statement.

[SiberianKiss]

Originally Posted by Linda12345

The sketch was prepared after the Unabomber was seen by a witness to the bomb that exploded in 1987 and injured a computer store worker. The famous Unabomber sketch depicts a suspect with a striking, square jaw, parallel to the Zodiac sketch which sports the same, striking, square jaw. Ted was actually identified initially, though, through his writings; in particular, his Manifesto when he demanded it be published. His brother's wife, initially recognized similarities in the context and had her husband, David, read it. After realizing that there were several writing traits and similar views within the document that were definitely Ted-like, he went to someone who could compare known writings of his Ted to the Manifesto written by the Unabomber. When the results came back in the positive, he felt he had to notify authorities.

striking square jaw??? there's nothign striking about a square jaw, anybody who's lean has a square jaw.

the unabomber can be placed away from the bay area at the time of some of the zodiac crimes.

[Linda12345]

Originally Posted by SiberianKiss

striking square jaw??? there's nothign striking about a square jaw, anybody who's lean has a square jaw.

That is a prominent feature that was captured particularly from the original sketch drawn of the Zodiac; the re-do of the sketch most-prominently displayed a striking square jaw. By itself, a square jaw means nothing; combined with multiple other similarities (and I don't mean necessarily physical features), it adds one more parallel to narrowing down the field.

Originally Posted by SiberianKiss

the unabomber can be placed away from the bay area at the time of some of the zodiac crimes.

The Unabomber can MOST DEFINITELY NOT BE PLACED away from the Bay area. He may have been SAID to have moved, but that's all... Kaczynski has most definitely NOT been pinned down to an exact location during ANY of the Z events or mailings of the Z's correspondences.