I've heard a lot of comments on-line and off that say that Debra has become even more of a bitch in recent seasons with no respect for Ray and that Ray shouldn't have to put up with it. Personally, I think it's the other way around. I think that Ray is the one who has no respect for Debra. He doesn't lift a finger around the house. He doesn't like spending much time with Debra or the kids. He acts like a 4th child for Debra to take care of. He's such an insensitive wimp. He allows his parents, especially his overbearing, narcisstic mother, to continually be cruel to Debra. I honestly don't know why Debra allows Ray and Marie to treat her that way anymore. If I were her, I'd take the kids and run. I'm sure Ray wouldn't mind. He'd be free to live with his mommy, which is exactly what he wants.

This is one of the reasons I no longer love "Raymond". I'm fed up with all the nastiness. None of those people seem to have anything nice to say about each other anymore.

Debra deserves to be worshipped.

agreed

I agree with what you guys are saying about Ray being a wimp and not having the backbone to stand up to his "mommy", but isn't that what the show is based on? The comic errors of not having your wife and mother get along? I think that's the whole lay out of the show, that's the point of it, so I don't think they should change it. Otherwise they'd be changing what the show is supposed to be about. I don't know, just my opinion. :wave:

Originally posted by Elaine Benes
Debra deserves to be worshipped.

I definitely agree with that. :notworthy

Originally posted by Elaine Benes
Debra deserves to be worshipped.

:nod: yep

Debra should be canonized a saint for putting up with that battleax of a mother-in-law and wimp of a husband.

Marie seems to be toning it down this season, with the exception of the Thank You Notes episode.

If I were in Debra's shoes........they would be really tight.

If I were in Debra's shoes, I would have long ago chopped off Marie's head and used it as a pin cushion.:crazy:

Debra is a really great and patient woman to stay with Ray all these years with that crazy family:crazy:


I think Marie had the same relationship with her mother-in law.I think she talk about her once and she said that she was a control freak?Debra looked at Marie thinking(so,it's pay back time for me).

In the last few seasons Debra really has become more caustic, more hitting her husband everytime he disagrees. Of course the Marie character is getting just as bad too. Makes me wonder if the writers on this show have issues with their own wives and mothers.

^Well just maybe. Because a lot of the stories on the show are based on real life situations that the producers and cast have experienced. A perfect example is the 'Suitcase' episode. That incident actually happened to one of the producers.

WOW... glad to know that everyone doesn't love Raymond. Not that I'm bashing the show... they must be doing something right:confused: But yeah they treat Debra horribly and I'm not sure if anyone can take THAT much abuse.

The disdainful, hypocritical, superficial, and domestically abusive, Debra Barone does not deserve to be worshipped.

Debra's boorish behavior during the episode in which Marv Albert announced Ray as the winner of a sportswriter award did not command worship. Ironically, one of the nominees Debra disdained was Chuck Heaton, an actual Cleveland sportswriter who is Patricia Heaton's father.

There appears to be a nation wide emphasis to eliminate spousal abuse, but Debra Barone incessantly hits her husband. Feminist groups would clamor for Ray's imprisonment if he hit Debra as often as she hit him.

Ray was insensitive when he taped the Super Bowl over the wedding video, but truthfully, the hypocritical Debra was almost as indifferent to the wedding video as Raymond. It took Debra nine years to determine that the wedding video had been supplanted by the Super Bowl.

I got admit that each of them had their faults.But,Ray is so lazy,he lies all the time to Debra and Marie is worst than everybody.The wedding tape,it's so inresponsable of him to over tape to overtaped a football game over his wedding that was horrible.I'm sure it wasn't the first time that they looked at the tape since their wedding,my guess is Ray overtaped the last football game that he watched.

I got admit that each of them had their faults.But,Ray is so lazy,he lies all the time to Debra and Marie is worst than everybody.The wedding tape,it's so inresponsable of him to over tape a football game over his wedding that was horrible.I'm sure it wasn't the first time that they looked at the tape since their wedding,my guess is Ray overtaped the last football game that he watched.

Debra treats Ray like dirt. She's taken that wearing the pants in the family thing way too far.

Frank rules!

The first season is playing where I live, and its like night and day with the whole cast. But especially Debra is shown being affectionate and patient with Ray and his family. She has a sense of humour, she loves her husband.

Let's settle this chronologically:

The most recent football game featured on the wedding tape was played in January 1991. Debra acted as if she just noticed the absence of the wedding on the tape when Ray and she decided to observe their ten year anniversary in circa 2000 by watching the wedding video.

He didn't care very much for the most memorable day of his life:(
It's still horribly wrong of him to overtaped on his wedding:mad:

They have to have faults in order
for there to be a show. There has
to be conflict. Ray is sometimes
a lazy idiot but he's seldom mean
and he loves his family. Debra
just basically loves the kids
and hates him. It doesn't matter
what's underneath (true love?)
when she just continually heaps
abuse on him. She has a mean
streak and takes it out on him.
Just as Frank doesn't really
give a damn about Marie. He'll
cry at her funeral and treat her
like trash now. (Although she
is a little nuts.) I think the
show is funny but I don't like
seeing the hate of it sometimes.
In real life, with his high
profile job, and all the people
his must meet, Ray would be
much better off dumping her.
What is there to love usually?
You do see lots of families
like this, but most stick together
out of habit and they just don't
have any hope of getting anyone
else. To make this a little
more believable, I think Ray
should've had a more low profile
job. He's a fool to take all
this crap. Like Ray said during
an agruement "I know I'm coming
on a little strong here, but the
truth has set me free." Or something like that...

Ray is a wimp and Deb should have left him a long time ago... but Debra is waaaayyyy too bitchy, so I side with Ray (barely).

Debra needs to divorce Ray and get the hell out of there. The majority of the episodes are about him doing something wrong. I swear he has got to be one of the least likeable TV husbands.

Well, I disagree with who's at fault
there. But I love the divorce idea.
That's how they should end the series.
They were wrong, they're only making
each other miserable, and they should
get out. That would be different.

Debra is one durable lady! To put up with Raymond's freakish family makes her an angel of mercy. Besides, she is a very hot looking babe, especially for a guy that looks like Ray. I see why Ray is always after her every night (I would be too)!

Debra is a hypocritical snob. Debra, who thought Robert had good points, didn't side with Raymond when newlywed Robert had the nerve to give Raymond marriage advice. Conversely, she was offended when newlywed Amy gave her marriage advice.

She correctly assessed that Raymond could put more effort into the marriage, but she incorrectly insinuates that she invests 100% effort into the marriage.

I'll concede that Debra is attractive, but considering her flaws, she is in no position to cast stones at Ray and his family.

She has had a few shrew like moments during the show, but I have lived with a Marie Barone type for much of my life and it is no fun getting criticized about every little thing all the time.

If you have watched the show since the beginning you have seen how Debra had this idealistic view of life and her marriage and has learned that Ray and marriage are not this picture perfect lovefest that she hoped it would be. And you would know how genuinely sweet she was and how she had to turn into the warden of the Barone family nutfarm.

Ray has for the most part been the major culprit in every debacle that has faced the family. He lies to everyone (not in a mean manner, but still) and always tries to turn each situation against the other person. Debra too lies and tries to get her way but she is much more realistic and reasonable in her wants and demands.

I dare you to show me any woman that would put up with what Ray pulls.

One of the funniest and more insightful shows had Robert trying to figure out what Ray really wanted in a wife. As he went thru all the things Ray figured made the perfect wife, Robert pointed out that only one woman had thoses qualities and that was their mother. As everyone looked at Ray with horror, and Ray himself looked like he was going to be sick, Marie just sat there beaming with happiness.

Debra's version of realism and reason is as follows:

She blames Ray when she forgets to return a cannister Marie loaned to her. Forget the apparent Pre-wedding arrangement that Ray would be the bread winner and Debra would be the stay-at-home mom. Everything that goes wrong in the household is somehow Ray's fault in Debra's mind.

In fairness to Debra I can understand how she unwitting allowed Ally to use the cannister in a moment of distraction. However, she didn't show much accountability by indirectly blaming Ray, who was probably at the office during time of permission, for the incident.

How about Debra's one day employment career? Her "Pete Sa"
campaign was an obvious loser of a slogan, but vain Debra couldn't accept the fact that she submitted a subpar idea.

How about the "interview" episode? The writer, who originally wanted to interview Debra, switched topics when the Barones appeared to be more interesting. Did Debra's version of realism and reason permit her to understand why a radio psychologist would find the Barones more interesting.

I do love the way the final episode showed the love that is there - Debra momentarily falling apart when Ray wouldn't come out of the anesthesia, Robert ready to go in ther and help, frank reaching out to Marie in a rare tender moment, and later telling Ray how Debra fell apart. The comdedy was brought back as Ray said to Debra "you fell apart?" and she said "a little," and I love the "you like me, and I like you too" scene. Like most families, there are times when they hated eachother's guts, but deep down the love is still there, just they don't always know how to show it. Debra always having a fit is the same as Rick Ricardo always having a fit i n I Love Lucy. It's a comed show, and people need not get too worked up over it.


They have to have faults in order
for there to be a show. There has
to be conflict. Ray is sometimes
a lazy idiot but he's seldom mean
and he loves his family. Debra
just basically loves the kids
and hates him. It doesn't matter
what's underneath (true love?)
when she just continually heaps
abuse on him. She has a mean
streak and takes it out on him.
Just as Frank doesn't really
give a damn about Marie. He'll
cry at her funeral and treat her
like trash now. (Although she
is a little nuts.) I think the
show is funny but I don't like
seeing the hate of it sometimes.
In real life, with his high
profile job, and all the people
his must meet, Ray would be
much better off dumping her.
What is there to love usually?
You do see lots of families
like this, but most stick together
out of habit and they just don't
have any hope of getting anyone
else. To make this a little
more believable, I think Ray
should've had a more low profile
job. He's a fool to take all
this crap. Like Ray said during
an agruement "I know I'm coming
on a little strong here, but the
truth has set me free." Or something like that...

Debra is great, she does the best she can, if she's a little testy it's not her fault.