Hello, all!

I'm watching the Yankee/Sox game, and what a doozie it is! :eek: There was a HUGE fight in the fourth inning, and both benches were cleared! I kinda expected a little head-hunting today, but NOTHING like this! :rolleyes: The idiot Pedro Martinez threw Don Zimmer (who's 72 years old) to the ground! What a jerk! :mad: He could have been seriously hurt. Is anybody watching? Let me know...we can have a little chat!

Later. :bye:

david&maddie4ever

Originally posted by david&maddie4ever
The idiot Pedro Martinez threw Don Zimmer (who's 72 years old) to the ground! What a jerk! :mad: He could have been seriously hurt.
I suggest you watch the replay. Don Zimmer lunged after Pedro and raised his hands to Pedro's face. Pedro fended him off. He didn't hit Zimmer--he brushed him to the side.

Zimmer may be 72, but he's a big man with a fiery temper.
Anyone would protect themselves if they were attacked by him.

Well you know... maybe if Don Zimmer didn't swing at "the idiot" Pedro Martinez, Pedro wouldn't have had to throw Zimmer on the ground. True, Manny started this and I won't deny it, but don't shove it all on the Sox. The Stanks joined in too.

Yeah...I did see the replay. Big whoop. There is NO excuse, no matter WHAT team you play on, to get that violent with a guy of Zim's age! C'mon...you don't really believe that Zim is at fault, do you? Sure, he went after Pedro, but what Pedro did was NOT "protecting himself". He threw him, and threw him HARD. You guys are SO lucky he wasn't seriously injured.

david&maddie4ever

Originally posted by david&maddie4ever
Yeah...I did see the replay. Big whoop. There is NO excuse, no matter WHAT team you play on, to get that violent with a guy of Zim's age! C'mon...you don't really believe that Zim is at fault, do you? Sure, he went after Pedro, but what Pedro did was NOT "protecting himself". He threw him, and threw him HARD. You guys are SO lucky he wasn't seriously injured.

david&maddie4ever

We're "SO lucky"? Sounds like a threat to me :lol: You Yankee fans... always looking to blame it on someone else. Other people's ignorance is my power.

Originally posted by david&maddie4ever
Yeah...I did see the replay. Big whoop. There is NO excuse, no matter WHAT team you play on, to get that violent with a guy of Zim's age! C'mon...you don't really believe that Zim is at fault, do you? Sure, he went after Pedro, but what Pedro did was NOT "protecting himself". He threw him, and threw him HARD. You guys are SO lucky he wasn't seriously injured.

Pedro didn't get violent. Zimmer got violent. Pedro was protecting himself. What was he supposed to do? Let the crazy old geezer whack him in the face? Zimmer may be 72, but he's not this frail old man as you seem to be making him out to be.
Zim is at fault. Hellooooo, he attacked Pedro.

I'm not even gonna waste my time arguing with you guys. Why don't YOU watch the replay? Zim went after Pedro, but watch the way Pedro throws him! Nasty and violent. HARD. I'm not being ignorant. The fact that you want to blame this on an old guy who was just acting like EVERY OTHER MEMBER of those two teams is NONSENSE. Even the rest of the Boston team came over to see if Zim was okay! Some Boston fans are even apologizing for Pedro's actions. Don't think you can make me feel like I'm the one being ridiculous.

david&maddie4ever

I just read my original post, and it was in no way nasty toward you guys! Why did you come at me like that? I don't want to start a fight or anything! I was just trying to have a legit conversation! If you guys are gonna be like this, I'm deleting the post.

Later. :bye:

david&maddie4ever

Originally posted by david&maddie4ever
I just read my original post, and it was in no way nasty toward you guys! Why did you come at me like that? I don't want to start a fight or anything! I was just trying to have a legit conversation! If you guys are gonna be like this, I'm deleting the post.

Later. :bye:

david&maddie4ever

We never "came at you", don't make us sound all vicious, Jesus Christ. We're only trying to prove a point. It's not like we're saying "OOOOO It's all the YANKEES FAULT!", because well, it's not. Manny started this.

What I'm trying to say is Manny started this, Zimmer came after Pedro, Pedro defended himself. Sure, he may have done it a little hard, but it's better than being cracked over the head with a bat! It's called self-defense. If Zimmer never even looked at Pedro, then Pedro wouldn't have laid a hand on him.

If someone runs out from the dugout and attacks a player, I don't give a rat's ass how old he is, he should expect to be shut down.
Zimmer took Pedro by surprise. When you've got someone charging and steaming after you, it's human instinct to protect yourself. I just saw the replay again. Pedro didn't throw him to the ground "nasty, hard and violent".
Pedro pushed him to the side and the fat shyt fell over.
Since when do managers charge at players like bulls? I think Zimmer should be put out to pasture.
As for Boston fans apologizing for Pedro, not on this planet. I'm in Boston now. Not happening.

Oh yeah? Well, I'm on the official Yankee message board, and there are Boston fans over there being really nice an apologizing about this whole mess! Don't believe me? Go over and check.

www.yankees.com

david&maddie4ever

Originally posted by david&maddie4ever
Well, I'm on the OFFICIAL Yankee message board

Congratulations! [/sarcasm]

Hello?! It's the internet. Don't believe everything you read. For all you know, it could be Yankees fans trying to make an ass out of us.

Yeah, we call them Yankee fans masquerading as Sox fans. :lol:

I think the Red Sox should hire a 70+ bull of a man as a manager. We can then unleash him on opposing players, then cry foul when someone defends themselves from the lunatic.

Works for the Yankees.

Originally posted by david&maddie4ever
Oh yeah? Well, I'm on the OFFICIAL Yankee message board, and there are Boston fans over there being really nice an apologizing about this whole mess! Don't believe me? Go over and check.

www.yankees.com

david&maddie4ever






:lol:

Pedro made hisself look very stupid by throwing a 72-YEAR OLD MAN TO THE GROUND. I know the old man attacked him, put Pedro should have just moved out of the way. What do a young man like Pedro gain from throwing a man that old to the ground?

There's already a disussion about this.
http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86098

nevermind

I just tried to delete this thread, but for some reason, I can't. So I'd appreciate it if all of you would just SHUT UP and leave me alone. This post is dead.

david&maddie4ever

Originally posted by david&maddie4ever
I just tried to delete this thread, but for some reason, I can't. So I'd appreciate it if all of you would just SHUT UP and leave me alone. This post is dead.

david&maddie4ever

:lol: this post has just gotten started.

That is why Boston will not win. They have no class and try to cause fights to try to get momentum to win. With all the offense Boston has, they still have no chance in beating the Yankees. Yankees play with style and charisma while Boston plays with no class. Pedro Martinez is way overrated (he never beats the Yankees, I think the Yankees were 2-0 or 2-1 or so against him this season) and he is a total jerk. And I'm not talking about the Zimmer incident. He tried to hit Karim Garcia in the head, that is what started all this. Pedro earlier in the year hit Soriano AND Jeter back-to-back, he has problems. 1918 will be written in stone.

Originally posted by Janice
I suggest you watch the replay. Don Zimmer lunged after Pedro and raised his hands to Pedro's face. Pedro fended him off. He didn't hit Zimmer--he brushed him to the side.

Zimmer may be 72, but he's a big man with a fiery temper.
Anyone would protect themselves if they were attacked by him.


No excuse, he was not supposed to throw a man that old to the ground. All Pedro had to do was move out of the way

Originally posted by pavanbadal
That is why Boston will not win. They have no class and try to cause fights to try to get momentum to win. With all the offense Boston has, they still have no chance in beating the Yankees. Yankees play with style and charisma while Boston plays with no class. Pedro Martinez is way overrated (he never beats the Yankees, I think the Yankees were 2-0 or 2-1 or so against him this season) and he is a total jerk. And I'm not talking about the Zimmer incident. He tried to hit Karim Garcia in the head, that is what started all this. Pedro earlier in the year hit Soriano AND Jeter back-to-back, he has problems. 1918 will be written in stone.



He had a 3.80ERA against NY this season, thats not that bad.... Compared to Clemens 8.67 ERA against boston...

Originally posted by AAOT
He had a 3.80ERA against NY this season, thats not that bad.... Compared to Clemens 8.67 ERA against boston...

Clemens' ERA was that high because of that game he was going for 300. Every other game he did well, he got #299 against them and in August he won his last regular season game in Boston. And he won today!

Originally posted by Miss Karly
:lol: this post has just gotten started.

Well, maybe for YOU it has. Good luck to you.

david&maddie4ever

Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
No excuse, he was not supposed to throw a man that old to the ground. All Pedro had to do was move out of the way
Get real. Zimmer had fire in his eyes. Pedro didn't see Zimmer until the lunatic was almost on top of him. Pedro looked surprised as hell. Zimmer was going after him with such fury, if Pedro had moved out of the way, he would have taken a header anyway.
Age is no excuse for attacking a player.

Originally posted by pavanbadal
Every other game he did well, he got #299 against them and in August he won his last regular season game in Boston. And he won today!



Clemens starts against Boston..


May 21st: Win, 6 IP, 2 runs
May 26th: Loss, 5.2IP, 8 runs
July 5th: Loss, 5.1IP, 8 runs
August 31st: Win, 6.2IP, 4 runs
September 6th: Loss, 3.1IP, 7 runs

Its only a game people!! Chill out ;) I gotta see this on sportscenter, I had to go "shopping".

Its only a game people!! Chill out ;) I gotta see this on sportscenter, I had to go "shopping".

Why wouldnt he? :lol:

Originally posted by AAOT
Clemens starts against Boston..


May 21st: Win, 6 IP, 2 runs
May 26th: Loss, 5.2IP, 8 runs
July 5th: Loss, 5.1IP, 8 runs
August 31st: Win, 6.2IP, 4 runs
September 6th: Loss, 3.1IP, 7 runs

I forgot about the other two. He still won more against the Red Sox this season than Pedro did against the Yankees.

Originally posted by sinatrastar
Why wouldnt he? :lol:

Because he was too young to fight someone that old. He made hisself look dumb

Originally posted by pavanbadal
I forgot about the other two. He still won more against the Red Sox this season than Pedro did against the Yankees.


Yea but then against Clemens also got more starts against Red Sox, You can't deny pedro had a nice 1999 season though...

Its not like if Zimmer falls hes gonna break every bone in his body...

Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
Because he was too young to fight someone that old. He made hisself look dumb

Talking about making yourself look dumb...

Originally posted by AAOT
Its not like if Zimmer falls hes gonna break every bone in his body...


YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO THROW A 72 YEAR OLD MAN TO THE GROUND IF YOU ARE A YOUNG MAN-


THE END
SITCOM A.

Well, that was a fun game!

I hear there's a job opening with the Boston Red Sox grounds crew..

;)

Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO THROW A 72 YEAR OLD MAN TO THE GROUND IF YOU ARE A YOUNG MAN-
THE END
SITCOM A.
You are not supposed to charge after someone and attack them by surprise. Let's hope the crazy old man learned a lesson.

Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO THROW A 72 YEAR OLD MAN TO THE GROUND IF YOU ARE A YOUNG MAN-


THE END
SITCOM A.





Why did the Caps Lock Button have to be Invented...

I didnt see it so I have no clue, but in general if someone is charging at you, no matter how old, weak, feeble, fat, female or otherwise you can defend yourself and put that person on the ground. Whether Zimmer was in his face or not I dont know, so I will just leave it at that. At least this will kep the rivalry alive :lol:

Don Zimmer made a mistake. He clearly went after Martinez. A man with his experience in the game of baseball should have known better.

Originally posted by TJL
Don Zimmer made a mistake. He clearly went after Martinez. A man with his experience in the game of baseball should have known better.
This coming from a Native New Yorker. You're a cool guy TJL. :cool:

Originally posted by TJL
Don Zimmer made a mistake. He clearly went after Martinez. A man with his experience in the game of baseball should have known better.

Pedro could have just grabbed a hold of him to calm him down. Not throw the man down

Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
Pedro could have just grabbed a hold of him to calm him down. Not throw the man down
Calm him? Zimmer was CHARGING after him like an animal. It happened so fast that Pedro didn't know until Looneytune was just about on top of him. Pedro looked shocked when he saw Zimmer lunging at him, just a few feet away.

Zimmer was wrong. A manager attacking a player....that's just awful. Zimmer has lost it and should consider retirement.

Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
Pedro could have just grabbed a hold of him to calm him down. Not throw the man down

True, Now Martinez now comes of as a jerk for throwing Don Zimmer to the ground, but when something like that happens so fast, you really don't know how you're going to react in a situation.

I guess we'll be hearing from both parties pretty soon, so hopefully we'll be able to find out what was going through the minds of Zimmer and Martinez.

Originally posted by TJL
Well, that was a fun game!

I hear there's a job opening with the Boston Red Sox grounds crew..

;)

:D Yeah...you're probably right! :lol:

I didn't want to post on this thread anymore, but I just wanted to let everybody know that Zim's being taken to the hospital. He said he was okay, but they took him anyway. :( This is bad. I hope that EVERYBODY, even those who support Boston, will be kind enough to say a little prayer for our beloved bench coach.

david&maddie4ever

Originally posted by Janice
Calm him? Zimmer was CHARGING after him like an animal. It happened so fast that Pedro didn't know until Looneytune was just about on top of him. Pedro looked shocked when he saw Zimmer lunging at him, just a few feet away.

Zimmer was wrong. A manager attacking a player....that's just awful. Zimmer has lost it and should consider retirement.


One of the Yankee Players should have punched Pedro in the mouth

Originally posted by Janice
This coming from a Native New Yorker. You're a cool guy TJL. :cool:

I calls them likes I sees them. I can be a decent guy if I really want to.

Don't tell anybody though...



;)

Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
One of the Yankee Players should have punched Pedro in the mouth
....and someone should drop a net over Zimmer.

Originally posted by TJL
Don Zimmer made a mistake. He clearly went after Martinez. A man with his experience in the game of baseball should have known better.

I love open minded people

Originally posted by david&maddie4ever
I hope that EVERYBODY, even those who support Boston, will be kind enough to say a little prayer for our beloved bench coach.


Okay----- Zimmer is not hurt. If he was hurt, then I'd feel a little bad. But why in God's name would I pray for someone who a] isn't even hurt, and b] could have brutally hurt one of our best pitchers?

And I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here. If Zimmer was on the Red Sox, and Pedro was on the Yankees, all of you would be jumping on our backs for Zimmer coming after Pedro, not Pedro defending himself like he had a right to do!

Don't you see? It's a personal thing. It doesn't matter who-chased-who first, it's the fact that it was the Red Sox and the Yankees.

Originally posted by TJL
Don Zimmer made a mistake. He clearly went after Martinez. A man with his experience in the game of baseball should have known better.

For those of you who don't know, back in 1953 Don was hit in the head by a pitch and was in a coma for 13 days. He even has a plate inside his head cause of this. He has a right to be upset over this today. He's very sensitive when it comes to pitchers throwing at someone's head. So Don did have a legit reason.

Originally posted by pavanbadal
For those of you who don't know, back in 1953 Don was hit in the head by a pitch and was in a coma for 13 days. He even has a plate inside his head cause of this. He has a right to be upset over this today. He's very sensitive when it comes to pitchers throwing at someone's head. So Don did have a legit reason.


I feel like Attacking Pedro myself after what he did.

Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
I feel like Attacking Pedro myself after what he did.

Don is 72 years old, he could have seriously gotten hurt after taking that fall. At worse, the plate could have even been damage. For once, SOLOMON, I agree with you.

Why did he run out there if he is so fragile? He is a tough old bird, I think he will laugh about it over a tall glass of prune juice tomorrow ;)

i don't want this to sound like i don't care about someone's health and safety but...

If Zimmer hurt himself it's his own fault, he's the one who tried to headbutt Pedro for no reason at all, Since when is it wrong for Pedro to protect himself, if you look at the play all pedro did was put two hands in front of him to keep zimmer from crashing into him, and Zimmer flipped.

Martinez didn't go anything wrong at all, Zimmer's the one at fault.

Originally posted by Xxshelly06xX
i don't want this to sound like i don't care about someone's health and safety but...

If Zimmer hurt himself it's his own fault, he's the one who tried to headbutt Pedro for no reason at all, Since when is it wrong for Pedro to protect himself, if you look at the play all pedro did was put two hands in front of him to keep zimmer from crashing into him, and Zimmer flipped.

Martinez didn't go anything wrong at all, Zimmer's the one at fault.


I think you need to see the reply again, Pedro took both of his hands and slammed Zimmer to the ground.

Originally posted by Xxshelly06xX
he's the one who tried to headbutt Pedro for no reason at all

Pedro tried to hit Garcia in the head. And earlier this year he hit Soriano and Jeter back to back--and both left the game and went to the hospital.
Martinez said on May 30, 2001, ``Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him.''

If he thinks hitting batters is what it takes to win, he is so wrong.

Originally posted by Miss Karly
Okay----- Zimmer is not hurt. If he was hurt, then I'd feel a little bad. But why in God's name would I pray for someone who a] isn't even hurt, and b] could have brutally hurt one of our best pitchers?

And I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here. If Zimmer was on the Red Sox, and Pedro was on the Yankees, all of you would be jumping on our backs for Zimmer coming after Pedro, not Pedro defending himself like he had a right to do!

Don't you see? It's a personal thing. It doesn't matter who-chased-who first, it's the fact that it was the Red Sox and the Yankees.

Well, this just shows what kind of a person you are. I was trying to be nice and UNITE both sides for a change, but OBVIOUSLY that's impossible. Anybody being taken to the hospital deserves a prayer because it's gotta be serious enough. Can't you just be nice for a minute?

Oh, and the comment about the issue not being a personal thing it ridiculous. This IS NOT baseball! This is nothing BUT personal!

Later. :bye:

david&maddie4ever

still...he seemed pretty fine during the rest of the game...the only thing that seemed wrong was the itty bitty band-aid on his nose.

he took both hands on zimmer to stop him from slaming into him, and after the he pushed him down, i would call it slamming him down.

Originally posted by pavanbadal
Pedro tried to hit Garcia in the head. And earlier this year he hit Soriano and Jeter back to back--and both left the game and went to the hospital.
Martinez said on May 30, 2001, ``Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him.''

If he thinks hitting batters is what it takes to win, he is so wrong.

here's the other half of that story...look up all the red sox players your pitcher hit...i don't know it off the top of my head but i can deff. tell you that he hit nomar and a few others.

Originally posted by pavanbadal
Pedro tried to hit Garcia in the head. And earlier this year he hit Soriano and Jeter back to back--and both left the game and went to the hospital.
Martinez said on May 30, 2001, ``Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him.''

If he thinks hitting batters is what it takes to win, he is so wrong.

It's sickening in this day and age that some pithcers are still deliberatly throwing at a batter with intent to cause injury. It is stupid macho bravado B.S. pure and simple.
One day someone is going to be killed on national Television. It's bound to happen, as morbid as that may sound.
One of the FOX announcers commented during the whole situation today that things would certainly be different if American League pitchers had to grab a bat and hit like the National League pitchers have to. Some of these guys would certainly think twice about throwing another beanball if they had to step in the batters box and face a 90 MPH fastball.

I think they should ammend the rules in the American League and make them hit. I bet you'll hear plenty of protests from some pitchers.

pitcher's shouldn't have to hit, it's not their job, having pitchers hit is just opening them up to more injuries.

i already said this and i'll say it again, i remember that game like it was yesterday, the yankees pitcher hit nomar FIRST so then pedro went and hit a yankees player.

pitchers shouldn't that though, i agree it's wrong.

I think baseball is just trying to create a buzz.

Originally posted by Xxshelly06xX
i already said this and i'll say it again, i remember that game like it was yesterday, the yankees pitcher hit nomar FIRST so then pedro went and hit a yankees player.

I don't see anything in the Box Score from that July game about Nomar being hit:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=230707110

Originally posted by pavanbadal
For those of you who don't know, back in 1953 Don was hit in the head by a pitch and was in a coma for 13 days. He even has a plate inside his head cause of this. He has a right to be upset over this today. He's very sensitive when it comes to pitchers throwing at someone's head. So Don did have a legit reason.
If that's the case, I wonder why Don Zimmer didn't attack Roger Clemens when he hit Mike Piazza in the head in 2000 and then, in the World Series that year, tossed a broken bat toward the Mets catcher.

Originally posted by Janice
If that's the case, I wonder why Don Zimmer didn't attack Roger Clemens when he hit Mike Piazza in the head in 2000 and then, in the World Series that year, tossed a broken bat toward the Mets catcher.

Notice Roger only does that to Piazza. Maybe he has something against him, I don't know. Pedro does it anyone. I'd like to see him get hit by a pitch, by say Mark Prior or Kerry Wood, we'll see how much of a man he is. He admits he drills people on purpose.

Originally posted by pavanbadal
Don is 72 years old, he could have seriously gotten hurt after taking that fall. At worse, the plate could have even been damage. For once, SOLOMON, I agree with you.
Then Mr. Rage-a-holic should have realized, that when you come flying out of a dugout with violence on your mind, there's a good chance of getting hurt.
If I had a plate in my head, I'd be careful not to start a fight with anyone.
What did he think....that Pedro would stand there like a punching bag?
Zimmer may be 72, but he's a burly guy. Anyone would defend themselves against him coming after them like a lunatic.

Originally posted by pavanbadal
Notice Roger only does that to Piazza. Maybe he has something against him, I don't know. Pedro does it anyone. I'd like to see him get hit by a pitch, by say Mark Prior or Kerry Wood, we'll see how much of a man he is. He admits he drills people on purpose.
Roger is no angel when it comes to hitting batters. We all know that. He played for Boston for many years.
Still, I wonder why Zimmer didn't attack Clemens when he beaned Piazza if he's so against that, and that's his reasoning for attacking Pedro today.

Red Sox's Martinez Tosses Yankees' Zimmer to Ground

Nobody Ejected as Bench Coach Charges Ace
By JIMMY GOLEN, AP SPORTS

BOSTON (Oct. 11) -- Pedro Martinez had an easier time with 72-year-old Yankees bench coach Don Zimmer than with New York's lineup.

Martinez grabbed Zimmer by the head and tossed him to the ground after the former Red Sox manager lunged at the pitcher during a bench-clearing melee Saturday. But the Yankees had already done their damage where it counted, taking the lead in the fourth inning before another fracas in an already bitter rivalry.

Martinez said he was only defending himself after Zimmer tried to hit him.

"I could never hit him. I would never do it," Martinez said. "I was just trying to dodge him and push him away, and too bad his body fell. I hope he's fine."

Zimmer landed face down and rolled over on his back. Yankees trainer Gene Monahan treated the coach for what appeared to be a cut on his head. Later, Zimmer was smiling and laughing in the dugout.

"I have nothing to say," he said after the game, before leaving on a stretcher for a precautionary examination at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center. "We won the game."

Martinez allowed four runs on six hits and a walk, striking out six in seven innings as New York won 4-3 to take 2-1 lead in the best-of-7 AL Championship Series. Game 4 is Sunday, and security is sure to be heightened after a Game 3 interrupted by beanballs, hard slides and a bizarre fight in the Yankees' bullpen.

"It's good, old-school, hard-school baseball," Yankees starter Roger Clemens said. "But let's clean it up. I know it's the playoffs, but when I told you all the other day it was going to be festive, I didn't know it was going to be this festive."

The Yankees can't say they weren't warned. After snapping a personal losing streak to New York, Martinez said on May 30, 2001, "Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him."

But it wasn't Babe Ruth, the star slugger the Red Sox sold to the Yankees in 1920, in the batter's box. It was Karim Garcia trying to duck out of the way of Martinez's pitch behind his head after Hideki Matsui doubled to break a 2-2 tie.

Plate umpire Alfonso Marquez awarded Garcia first base and warned both benches about throwing inside. As Garcia went to first, the Yankees -- chiefly Zimmer, Garcia and catcher Jorge Posada -- yelled at Martinez.

"There's no question in my mind that Pedro hit him on purpose. He can thread a needle any time he wants," Yankees manager Joe Torre said. "You know what kind of respect I have for Pedro's ability to pitch, but I didn't care for that."

Red Sox manager Grady Little denied that his pitcher threw at Garcia on purpose.

"Pedro never takes a shot at someone's head like that," Little said.

When the next batter, Alfonso Soriano, hit a grounder to the shortstop, Garcia slid hard past the bag to try to break up the double play. Second baseman Todd Walker didn't like that, and a minor skirmish developed, with teams ambling out of the dugouts but no real fighting.

"I'm going to get somebody else," Garcia said. "That's the way I play the game."

In the bottom half of the inning, Clemens threw high -- but barely inside -- to Manny Ramirez, and the Boston slugger veered toward the mound, shouting and carrying his bat. The Yankees insisted that the pitch was not inside, and even Little conceded it was not threatening.

"I think everybody's nerves were a little frazzled by that time," Torre said. "Manny overreacted."

But both benches cleared, and Zimmer headed for Martinez. When Zimmer lunged at the 31-year-old three-time Cy Young winner, Martinez sidestepped him and tossed him to the ground.

Ramirez declined to comment.

The game was delayed for 10 minutes, but nobody was ejected. Beer stands at Fenway Park were shut down for the remainder of the game.

There was another skirmish -- this one in the Yankees' bullpen in the middle of the ninth inning. Jeff Nelson got into a fight with a member of the Fenway Park grounds crew.

Garcia cut his hand in the fight and was replaced in right field by Juan Rivera.

It wasn't the first time the teams fought on the field.

In 1976, New York's Lou Piniella collided with Boston catcher Carlton Fisk at home plate and came up swinging. In the ensuing fight, Red Sox pitcher Bill Lee was body-slammed and wound up with a broken collarbone.

Zimmer, who has been in professional baseball for 54 years, was the Red Sox manager in 1978 when they lost to the Yankees in a one-game playoff for the AL East title, the game that featured Bucky Dent's famous home run. He has a plate in his head as a result of a 1953 beaning.

Martinez and Clemens both have reputations as headhunters.

Martinez picked up the tag as a young pitcher in the NL, before he developed the pinpoint control that made him one of the best pitchers in the game. But this July, after he hit Soriano and Derek Jeter two days after Clemens hit Boston's Kevin Millar.

Clemens is also known for throwing inside. His most notorious beaning was when he hit Mike Piazza in the head in 2000 and then, in the World Series that year, tossed a broken bat toward the Mets catcher.


10/11/03 18:09 EDT

Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.

Sorry to change the subject like this, but I hope you all caught the shot of Ben Affleck crying out in agony as he watched the game ending play.

Such passion! I haven't seen a performance like that since "Changing Lanes!"

I will now fine myself 5 bucks for breaking my no more Bennifer bashing rule...

;)

A few years old, but still relevant.

10/23/00- Updated 07:22 AM ET



Gutless pitching could ruin Clemens' legacy

By Nate Davis, USATODAY.com

Yankees pitcher Roger Clemens is on trial for being a gutless pitcher.

Mets catcher Mike Piazza is beaned by Roger Clemens in July. (Bill Kostroun, AP)
Let's look at the evidence.

Mets slugging catcher Mike Piazza and Mariners All-Universe shortstop Alex Rodriguez are called as character witnesses. Piazza and Rodriguez are two of the nicest superstars you'll ever meet — courteous, intelligent and insightful. They are two of the greatest players to play their respective positions. Ever. They are the signature players of their teams and provided much of the fuel that powered the Mets and Mariners into the 2000 playoffs. Neither player comes to the plate donned in 20 pounds of body armor either.

They have something else in common, too. They've both had close calls with Clemens' pitches to their heads.

Piazza came to the plate on July 8 at Yankee Stadium owning a .583 career average with three homers and nine RBI against Clemens. Piazza had launched a grand slam off the Rocket in their first meeting of the year on June 9 — Clemens was booed off the mound by the Yankee faithful after giving up nine runs and 10 hits in five innings. Clemens' first pitch to Piazza on that July night hit the Met catcher in the head. Piazza ducked just in time so that the visor of his batting helmet absorbed part of the blow.

But Piazza wound up with a concussion that knocked him out of the lineup and the All-Star game.

Piazza and the Rocket next met in the first inning in Game 2 of the World Series. Piazza offered at a Clemens fastball that shattered his bat. The splintered barrel hurtled toward Clemens on the mound. Clemens then inexplicably picked up the fractured bat head and threw it at Piazza as the catcher jogged up the first-base line. The benches immediately cleared, but only words were exchanged between the teams.


Alex Rodriguez, left, gets up after getting knocked down by Clemens. (Cheryl Hatch, AP)
Rodriguez last saw Clemens in Game 4 of the American League Championship Series in Seattle. Clemens proceeded to stick two heaters underneath the shortstop's chin. Clemens went on to strike out 15 that day while tossing a one-hit shutout. It was clearly the best performance of his spotty playoff career.

But afterwards A-Rod was still in disbelief at Clemens' actions, though the Seattle star refused to publicly lash out at the five-time Cy Young winner, only noting that Clemens just misses up and in, never up and away. Seattle manager Lou Piniella, however, lit into Clemens at the press conference following the game.

Clemens' pitching style certainly pushes the envelope of what is acceptable in baseball. Personally, I think it's reprehensible. I don't believe he meant to hit either player in the head, but it certainly appears he was throwing at them. He can't use wildness as an excuse either — he walked one batter in the July game against the Mets and allowed two free passes and the lone hit vs. Seattle. He only seems to get wild against dangerous hitters like Piazza and A-Rod. Lenny Harris and Carlos Guillen have no need to worry. And throwing the bat at Piazza only adds to the pitcher's increasingly lengthy rap sheet.

There is no doubt that Clemens is one of the greatest pitchers ever, probably one of the top two in the last fifteen years along with Greg Maddux. He'll probably win 300 games and strike out more than 4,000 batters. He deserves to be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

I also have to credit him for giving the Bronx Bombers two amazing performances in his last two outings. He's allowed three hits and no runs, striking out 24 in his last 17 innings, all of it coming against two of baseball's best teams.

But I can't let go of the fact that Clemens' brazen style could deprive baseball and its fans of a headline player like Piazza or A-Rod. That 98-mph fastball could do a lot worse than cause a concussion next time.

I don't dispute Clemens' right to pitch inside. Pitching effectively on the inner half of the plate is imperative to any good pitcher's makeup. I even understand that upholding baseball's archaic honor code requires pitchers to hit batters — though in the back, shoulders or ribs.

But Piazza and A-Rod were not on the receiving end of any retaliatory pitches. They were guilty of being the best hitters in their lineups and Piazza had the added burden of owning Clemens. Clemens meant to shake them up, even if he didn't mean to bean Piazza.


Clemens prepares to toss Piazza's shattered bat in Game 2 of the World Series. (Matt Campbell, AFP)
What really disturbs me is that Clemens can pitch in this fashion with impunity and without fear of reprisal. He has always pitched in the American League where he never has to stand at the plate and be held accountable for his actions. He's perfectly willing to buzz an opponent, knowing he won't have to face any chin music himself. Dodgers ace Kevin Brown and Diamondbacks flame-thrower Randy Johnson have also been known to throw purpose pitches in their stellar careers. But both have also hit the dirt in the batter's box and dusted themselves off without a word.

Clemens will have no worries about hitting in the Subway Series either. Yankees manager Joe Torre has scheduled him to pitch Games 2 and 6 of the World Series, meaning he won't have to face the Mets' tangible wrath at Shea Stadium, where the pitcher has to bat.

Clemens diminishes his extraordinary career every time he throws near an opponent's ear flap, especially when it's a fellow All-Star's. He's not as consistently effective anymore as he was earlier in his career, but — as his last two starts illustrate — he's still an extremely effective and, at times, dominant pitcher.

But if his pitch to Piazza had been a few inches lower, Clemens could have rendered the best-hitting catcher ever as the next Tony Conigliaro. Or worse. The Rocket has enjoyed the prime of his career. To potentially deprive a superstar hitter of his prime would be criminal.

If this wayward Rocket curtails another player's career or seriously hurts a hitter, he won't be remembered for his five Cy Youngs. He'll run the serious risk of being remembered as a dirty player who was a disgrace to the game.

Though he is a fierce competitor, I don't think Clemens is capable of a gutsy pitching performance because I don't think he has any guts. There is a right way to pitch with intensity, but throwing near the head of opposing superstars is not the part of the game.

Many others have agreed that Clemens is guilty of boorish mound tactics. We'll see if the Mets or some other team sentences him to any punishment the next time he steps into a National League batter's box.

Two Yankees Face Charges after Bullpen Brawl

BOSTON -- Two Yankees will be charged with assaulting a Fenway Park worker who was cheering for the Red Sox in the New York bullpen during the AL championship series Saturday night, police said.

Police spokesman Michael McCarthy did not release the names of the players, but Red Sox spokesman Charles Steinberg said Jeff Nelson and Karim Garcia were the players involved.

"The Red Sox are terribly concerned and distressed about the attack on our employee tonight," Steinberg said.

The Yankees denied the players were to blame in the fight with Paul Williams, a member of the ballpark's grounds crew.

"A security incident like this would never be tolerated at Yankee Stadium," president Randy Levine told The Associated Press.

"Unfortunately, there was an atmosphere of lawlessness that was allowed to be perpetrated all day long. The events of the entire day were disgraceful and shameful, and if it happened at our ballpark, we would apologize, and that's what the Red Sox should do here.

With tempers already high following a bench-clearing melee earlier in the game, Nelson took exception to Williams cheering for the Red Sox while in the New York bullpen, and he told Williams so.

"He was standing in our bullpen waving the rally flag," Nelson said, following New York's 4-3 win over the Sox in Game 3 of the AL championship series. "I told him, 'If you're rooting for the Red Sox, why don't you go in their bullpen.' He jumped in my face and tried to take a swing at me."

Williams acknowledged pumping his fist twice while holding a white towel after the Red Sox turned a double play in the ninth inning, Steinberg said.

"If that was in poor taste, or poor judgment, it certainly didn't warrant a beating," Steinberg said.

Williams had cleat marks on his back and his arm, and he may have been kicked in the mouth, Steinberg said. He was recuperating at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, the Red Sox spokesman said.

The Red Sox also said that two police officers in the bullpen backed Williams' story. McCarthy said police considered Williams the victim in the fight.

After Nelson confronted Williams, several Yankees surrounded him. Garcia leaped over the right-field fence and injured his left hand. He was removed from the game before the bottom of the ninth started and was taken to the training room with the hand wrapped.

Steinberg said the team would not advise Williams on whether to press charges. (AP)

Originally posted by Janice
Two Yankees Face Charges after Bullpen Brawl

FOX just said that AP story is not true about the assault charges.

Originally posted by pavanbadal
FOX just said that AP story is not true about the assault charges.
I guess that means that the top stories on all Boston's local news stations are lies.

And why in the world is that guy even NEAR the Yankees bullpen??? There is no question he started it. He should be either near the Red Sox bullpen or with the other crew near the tarp or the dugout.

Originally posted by pavanbadal
And why in the world is that guy even NEAR the Yankees bullpen??? There is no question he started it. He should be either near the Red Sox bullpen or with the other crew near the tarp or the dugout.
I don't know, but he sure paid a price for wandering off by having the crap kicked out of him by Yankee players.

Originally posted by Janice
but he sure paid a price for wandering off by having the crap kicked out of him by Yankee players.



Oh god... Did you watch the game? He was fine...

Originally posted by AAOT
Oh god... Did you watch the game? He was fine...
I watched most of the game, but didn't see him. Zimmer looked fine too.

I was angry at Pedro until I saw the replay.

Originally posted by pavanbadal
And earlier this year he hit Soriano and Jeter back to back--and both left the game and went to the hospital.
.


well if you had actually watched the game you will realize that both soriano and jeter swung at the pitches and wasnt like an intentional hit....



helpful hints-
think before you speak, and talk about things you actually know about


Someone comes lunging at you...what is your human instinct? to calmly step out of the way..or defend yourself...which one sounds more realistic folks? Come on...

Originally posted by Swimfan85
well if you had actually watched the game you will realize that both soriano and jeter swung at the pitches and wasnt like an intentional hit....

Uh, I did watch that game. Jeter was ACTUALLY hit. Soriano wasn't, he's the one who swung.

Originally posted by Swimfan85
helpful hints-
think before you speak, and talk about things you actually know about

OK sure. 26 championships. I know that!!

Originally posted by Swimfan85
Someone comes lunging at you...what is your human instinct? to calmly step out of the way..or defend yourself...which one sounds more realistic folks? Come on...
I just watched Roger Clemens talking about Zimmer. He described him as a 'charging rhino'. :lol:

pedro=ASSCLOWN

Originally posted by pavanbadal
Uh, I did watch that game. Jeter was ACTUALLY hit. Soriano wasn't, he's the one who swung.



OK sure. 26 championships. I know that!!



they were both swinging, but alright continuing being immature its alright even if Jeter wasnt because I mean pitchers hit players all the time, so it should not matter whether its the devil rays or the yankees


omg 26 championships, like I really dont give a ratass...who says that? If that and 1918 are your only comments thats kinda sad, cuz I was not hating on the yankees in my post, all I stated were facts, and I guess you cant handle the truth, w/e I am a diehard red sox fan and I would love them to win a world series in my lifetime, but I dont care whether they come in first or fifth (well I do...but my devoation isnt going to change) but I have respect for Yankees teams in the past, although I do not like them, I respect them and I was nowhere near bashing yankees and being like "oh they suck..this and that..." so chill out.

Originally posted by Swimfan85
Someone comes lunging at you...what is your human instinct? to calmly step out of the way..or defend yourself...which one sounds more realistic folks? Come on...

Nope, step away, here in the sitcom world -- Mr. Drummond wouldn't allow that!!

Originally posted by Swimfan85
they were both swinging, but alright continuing being immature

I was nowhere near bashing yankees and being like "oh they suck..this and that..." so chill out.

You asked what I knew, so I gave you the sarcastic comment about the 26 championships. You're the one who is being immature in arguing. I was trying to make light out of things, but you're taking it way too seriously. I guess it's because of the Red Sox losing today. I was stating the facts too, I said both Soriano and Jeter were in the hospital for that July 7 ballgame. So is that not true???

If Zimmer didn't go charging towards Pedro, he wouldn't have done that. It's Zimmer's fault in the first place. Pedro was protecting himself. Zimmer is huge for a 72 year old man.

I just watched Roger Clemens talking about Zimmer. He described him as a 'charging rhino'.

sans horn!

"I don't know what the Hell happened..."

- Joe Torre

:lol:

F*** Pedro! There's no excuse for what he did. Red Sox fans who historically bitch about everything would've gone crazy if this was one of there coaches. Pedro started it by trying to hit Garcia in the head like a bitch because Garcia got a hit off of him. It's funny how Manny tried to intimidate Roger and Roger gave it right back to him.

Originally posted by Brian Damage
F*** Pedro! There's no excuse for what he did.

So would you still be saying "F*** Pedro!" if Pedro was a Yankees player and Don Zimmer was on the Red Sox? Or would you be taking his side saying he was only trying to "defend himself"?

I'm not led by the nose by my team. If a Yankee does something stupid, I'll call him out on it.

Pedro didn't have to use both hands and throw him down like that. He said he tried to put him on the side, that looked like a wrestling move to me. Of course he was going to get thrown down to the ground that way, in which Pedro later said he didn't think he would be on the ground.

What was the deal with Pedro pointing at his head? Was that a threat that the next time he was going to throw at someone's head?

I'm astonished that anyone with a logical brain in their head would think it's Pedro's fault for defending himself against someone charging after him like a madman, no matter what the guy's age.
Pedro was attacked, and pushed Zimmer out of the way, and
Pedro is wrong?? What the hell kind of thinking is that?
Since when do managers attack players anyway?
Zimmer was wrong.

I guess it would be ok if I did that to a 300lb woman. Hey they lunged at me so I guess it's ok to grab somebody by the head and throw them to the ground. Please. :rolleyes:

Seeing the replay I thought that Pedro had just thrown down Zimmer. I guess I missed something because I didn't see Zimmer charging at Pedro.... I don't understand why all this has to happen. I wish they'd just play a nice clean game of baseball. That's what I like to see when I turn on the game.

Yeah I also liked how a Boston groundskeeper thought he was a tough guy and go after the Yankee bullpen.

Originally posted by Brian Damage
I guess it would be ok if I did that to a 300lb woman. Hey they lunged at me so I guess it's ok to grab somebody by the head and throw them to the ground. Please. :rolleyes:
Yes, if you were attacked by anyone, it would be fair to defend yourself. Everyone has that right. I certainly wouldn't expect you to stand there and be a human punching bag for anyone.
Pedro didn't throw him to the ground. He fended the madman off by pushing him to the side and to the ground. Zimmer came charging after him, arms flailing. Pedro tried to contain him by the shoulders, but couldn't because Zimmer's so fat that's it's impossible to grab his shoulders. Pedro took him by the head and flipped him to the ground.
If Pedro struck Zimmer, I'd say he went too far. Zimmer was the one who wanted to do the hitting.
Pedro was attacked by a Yankee manager, and two Yankee players are under investigation for assaulting a groundskeeper.
There's class for you.

Don't preach the Red Sox about class. A 72 year old is still a 72 year old. Who cares how big he is. And the replay didn't show Zimmer throwing punches so I don't know what that's about.

Boston blindness.

Originally posted by Brian Damage
Don't preach the Red Sox about class. A 72 year old is still a 72 year old. Who cares how big he is. And the replay didn't show Zimmer throwing punches so I don't know what that's about.
Zimmer was without a doubt going after Pedro. His hands were going right for Pedro's face. He was like a wild animal, even the New York papers don't deny that, so why are you.
Zimmer just can't charge after and try to attack an opposing player and then hang his hat on his age when the person defends himself.
If he's so old, he should leave baseball. Age doesn't give a person a free pass to attack someone.
If one of your loved ones were attacked by an elderly person in a blind rage, I'm sure you'd have another take on things.
I can hear New Yorkers now if a Sox manager attacked Clemens.

Originally posted by Janice
I'm astonished that anyone with a logical brain in their head would think it's Pedro's fault for defending himself against someone charging after him like a madman, no matter what the guy's age.
Pedro was attacked, and pushed Zimmer out of the way, and
Pedro is wrong?? What the hell kind of thinking is that?
Since when do managers attack players anyway?
Zimmer was wrong.

Pushed out of the way? He was thrown down! Why did he use both hands on top of his head to throw him down? If he wanted to push him a side, why not push him away softly near his chest, so he doesn't fall. I'm sure Zimmer would have been stopped or restrained by someone after that.

Originally posted by pavanbadal
Pushed out of the way? He was thrown down! Why did he use both hands on top of his head to throw him down? If he wanted to push him a side, why not push him away softly near his chest, so he doesn't fall. I'm sure Zimmer would have been stopped or restrained by someone after that.
Push him away softly? I give up. Pedro used both hands because he has two hands and he needed them both.
Even Clemens said Zimmer was a 'charging rhino'. Zimmer is a huge and powerful man and was charging like a MADMAN. Pedro is a slight man. He didn't throw him to the ground. He pushed him aside. Pedro had to use force because he was under attack.
Seriously, I give up. I'm in the Twilight Zone here.

Well, anyway, back to the series. Unless Burkett or Wakefield wins, I am saying Yankees in 5. I like Wells and Mussina's chances over their's. If the Sox do win one, then it'll be Yankees in 6 for sure. There's no stopping Andy Pettitte.

Originally posted by Janice
Zimmer was without a doubt going after Pedro. His hands were going right for Pedro's face. He was like a wild animal, even the New York papers don't deny that, so why are you.
Zimmer just can't charge after and try to attack an opposing player and then hang his hat on his age when the person defends himself.
If he's so old, he should leave baseball. Age doesn't give a person a free pass to attack someone.
If one of your loved ones were attacked by an elderly person in a blind rage, I'm sure you'd have another take on things.
I can hear New Yorkers now if a Sox manager attacked Clemens.


honestly, people try and take your bias and stubborness out of your minds, I mean I know how to do it, I have seen bad calls and bad plays made by teams that I love that are controversal, but even as much I dont want to admit it, my teams were at fault...but clearly, if a man is charging you and you push or shove him out of the way and he falls, whos fault is that? I would say the person who charged you...but I guess I am just going on logic, w/e I agree with Janice and Karly...

Originally posted by pavanbadal
Well, anyway, back to the series. Unless Burkett or Wakefield wins, I am saying Yankees in 5. I like Wells and Mussina's chances over their's. If the Sox do win one, then it'll be Yankees in 6 for sure. There's no stopping Andy Pettitte.

Yes, tonight's game could arguably be the deciding factor in the whole series.

It's no secret my total disdain for FOX in general, but I gotta tell ya, they couldn't buy this kind of publicity! Tonight's game is going to be one of the highest rated events in FOX sports history.

Originally posted by Brian Damage
I'm not led by the nose by my team. If a Yankee does something stupid, I'll call him out on it. Well, a fat 72 year old man, who happens to have years of experience in the major leagues, charged after a major league baseball player who happens to be in the prime of his physical life. If that isn't considered to be doing something stupid, I don't know what would be.

Don Zimmer apologizes.

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/photo.adp?id=20031012190609990023

Originally posted by Janice
Don Zimmer apologizes.

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/photo.adp?id=20031012190609990023


I can't read it. It says it's for AOL members only.

cant get it.

Here's the text which captioned a photo of Don Zimmer and Joe Torre. I saw the press conference too. Don Zimmer was crying. I actually felt bad for him.

*********************************************

NEW YORK YANKEES DON ZIMMER APOLOGIZES AT A PRESS CONFERENCE

Reuters
New York Yankees bench coach Don Zimmer (L) apologizes for an altercation with Boston Red Sox pitcher Pedro Martinez in Game 3 of the American League Championship Series during a press conference at Fenway Park in Boston, October 12, 2003. Zimmer attempted to throw a punch at Martinez during a fight on the field. Yankee manager Joe Torre is pictured at right. REUTERS/Ray Stubblebine

Where's Pedro's apology...What a jackass.

I'm not a Yankee or Red Sox fan, but who gives a crap about Don Zimmer?

Old or young, is this guy a saint?

We cut a break for the old? So I guess a old guy gets the benefit of the doubt where as a guy who is young and attacked gets no consideration?

I'm sure it would have been real helpful to Pedro if Zimmer fell ontop of him and broke his arm. Why should Pedro worry about his livelihood, he's a young man? Poor Zimmer.

Give me a break.

And the only reason Zimmer has a job is because he is Torre's buddy- he does nothing.

Get a little outside perspective.

I could care less who wins this series but cutting people a break on being dead wrong because they are old is just assinine.
Oh yeah, I hear the handicapped liked to be pitied also- wake up people!

If all this was reverse, Yankee fans would be saying he asked for it. And proud of it.

And both you jerky fans have had baseball's biggest A-hole on your team.

Yeah. Clemens, gutless coward personfied.
Take up a bat Roger, let's see how you do.

I don't even care anymore.....too exhausting.

Originally posted by Brian Damage
I don't even care anymore.....to exhausting.

Brian, your team is up 2-1 and looking fine.
This is silly stuff.

You're absolutely right. What's done is done.

Originally posted by dlemond
I'm not a Yankee or Red Sox fan, but who gives a crap about Don Zimmer?

Old or young, is this guy a saint?

We cut a break for the old? So I guess a old guy gets the benefit of the doubt where as a guy who is young and attacked gets no consideration?

I'm sure it would have been real helpful to Pedro if Zimmer fell ontop of him and broke his arm. Why should Pedro worry about his livelihood, he's a young man? Poor Zimmer.

Give me a break.

And the only reason Zimmer has a job is because he is Torre's buddy- he does nothing.

Get a little outside perspective.

I could care less who wins this series but cutting people a break on being dead wrong because they are old is just assinine.
Oh yeah, I hear the handicapped liked to be pitied also- wake up people!

If all this was reverse, Yankee fans would be saying he asked for it. And proud of it.

And both you jerky fans have had baseball's biggest A-hole on your team.

Yeah. Clemens, gutless coward personfied.
Take up a bat Roger, let's see how you do.
:yeahthat
Well said dlemond. I heard on a TV report today that Roger Clemens has hit 141 batters in his career, one of the highest in the league.

That still doesn't excuse Pedro for drilling someone.

Originally posted by Brian Damage
That still doesn't excuse Pedro for drilling someone.
My point is that Clemens has a reputation for being a dirty player. I couldn't believe what came up in a simple websearch about Clemens and beanballs. It was like shooting fish in a barrel.

In fairness though, both he and Pedro are often headhunters. Neither one can knock the other and neither can their fans. If anyone's going to accuse Pedro for drilling anyone, they also have to admit that Roger does the same thing.

Originally posted by Janice
:yeahthat
Well said dlemond. I heard on a TV report today that Roger Clemens has hit 141 batters in his career, one of the highest in the league.


I think it was the second highest among active Major League players, trailing only Randy Johnson.

I just caught the tail end of a commercial with Don Zimmer today. Anyone seen it? He is selling like Malox or some hemmaroids ointment? I forget what he is selling but the face he was making made me laugh.

I saw Clemons on some news channel saying that he feels embarrased for yankees because of Dom Zimmmers actions

Originally posted by Swimfan85
I saw Clemons on some news channel saying that he feels embarrased for yankees because of Dom Zimmmers actions

Well at least he knew Zimmer was wrong.

And as far as Clemons' pitch goes, well, I don't think he was trying to hit Manny.... I think it was just a very high, outside ball, but whatever. It's over and done with now.

Originally posted by Swimfan85
I saw Clemons on some news channel saying that he feels embarrased for yankees because of Dom Zimmmers actions

That's not true.

Originally posted by Brian Damage
That's not true.

actually it is...I saw it with my own eyes and heard it

also showed zimmer apologizing and like crying

I know Zimmer apologized and cried.

I think all the players that were involved in the brawling contest should be suspended at least for one game and fined in-between $5,000-15,000. That is only my opinion!!

I actually felt a little sorry for Zimmer. It happened and a lot of people were to blame and they should just put it to rest.

Watching Zimmer almost made me cry.

its over and done and come on soxs:)

I felt bad for Zimmer too. He knows he screwed up. He said he's sorry and embarrassed.

I would have felt a lot worse if he fell on Pedro and hurt his arm, but it's over and onto tonight's game.

I saw it on the news that afternoon and on Saturday's game where the Yanks played the Red Sox game. Don Zimmer was so upset where the players got very angry and so did the 9th inning bullpen where the incident happened. That was tragic.

What is the MATTER with Pedro!? He hits the guy on purpose, points at his head like, "I was trying to hit you in the head" or whatever, throws a 70 year old man on the ground, and it seems like he's always complaining about the Red Sox; why do you people defend him?! I do NOT like him, or Manny Ramirez; Ramirez just plain overreacted, and part of him WANTED to fight. I just today saw a flashback from when he first joined the Red Sox; he came out and said he's tired of the Yankees winning all the time.

Despite all this, ( :crazy: ) go Red Sox!

Seeing a star athlete throw a 72-year old man to the ground reminded me of a crucial scene from the movie Rocky III. I'm wondering if any of you also felt the connection.

In the movie Rocky III, before the first fight between Rocky and Clubber Lang (played by Mr. T), there was a scuffle in a back room when the two fighters taunted each other. As Clubber was walking down the stairs to challenge Rocky, Rocky's 76-year old trainer and manager, Mickey Goldmill (played by Burgess Meredith), stepped in front of Clubber and tried to challenge him. Clubber easily tossed Mickey aside. You all remember what happens next: Mickey dies of a heart attack and Rocky, lacking confidence without Mickey, loses the title defense.

An interesting note is that Clubber was never really legally charged for his actions. I wonder if Don Zimmer later died of a heart attack, would Pedro Martinez be charged with manslaughter or even murder.

Karim Garcia and that other guy are being charged with assult!

I watched an interview with Don Zimmer on ESPN last week, and he took complete and total blame for what happened. There were no If, Ands, or Buts in what Don was saying. I was quite surprised actually.

I remember Don apologized about it immediately after the incident, but he genuinely he feels very bad and apologetic about his actions that day.

Originally posted by stella
I wonder if Don Zimmer later died of a heart attack, would Pedro Martinez be charged with manslaughter or even murder.
I doubt it considering he provoked it by charging after Pedro. If you've got a guy the size of Zimmer flying towards you in a rage, your first reaction is to protect yourself -- not ask for a birth certificate.

Originally posted by stella
I wonder if Don Zimmer later died of a heart attack, would Pedro Martinez be charged with manslaughter or even murder. That would be akin to making someone buy you new tires after you lent them your car with totally bald tires, and they happened to get a flat. The tires were all ready shot. Don't blame me that they had the audacity to run around like that.;)

Zimmer is a well-liked coach in the Yankees Organization and I learned to respect my elders and not also hit kids!!

Originally posted by EricIdlefan
Zimmer is a well-liked coach in the Yankees Organization and I learned to respect my elders and not also hit kids!!
Steinbrenner treated Zimmer like dirt which is why he resigned this year.
I'll respect any elder who doesn't come flying after me in a fit of rage, especially if I've got a zillion dollar pitcher's arm to protect.

Age doesn't give anyone the right to assault another person.

Steinbrenner should had dropped dead when he was at the hospital then a REAL PARTY at the Yankees Headquarters would be happy as clams!!(size 3 text)