I was very disturbed by Eddie and his treatment of Beav's friend Chuey in the ep where Beav is friend's with the diplomat's sun and Eddie has Beav say something mean in Spanish. I think it makes Eddie to be little more than a racist redneck. I do think it was before Eddie was developed into a more sympathetci character later on, but he was still one dimensional in these early eps.

I mean, I love Eddie's character so much, but we all know that there is no way a character could or should do something like that on tv today, except as being a totally evil person. Thoughts, please?

Yeah, that was pretty mean of Eddie to do that. I never understood what Wally saw in him or why June and Ward continued to allow him to set foot in their house after all the stunts he would pull. If I were Wally I would have went and beat him up anyway. I wouldn't have cared if it was Sunday or not.

I think Eddie was just doing his "wise guy" deal. I don't think what he said was being racist, It was just being plain old ignorant.

Chuey was such a great little guy, with a beautiful smile. The look on his face, when Beaver spoke the Spanish words that Eddie gave him, was heart-breaking.

Eddie then made it even worse, by tellling Wally that he had not done anything.

I did not enjoy that episode at all; I think it made Eddie out to be just very mean and heartless, not just amusing as he usually is.

I think it is just how you entitled your thread. Politicall incorrect in "todays" world. Back in the 50's it was no big deal, and treated like any other mischeavous deed. Today things are a bit out of hand.

Making a young boy that age leave the room in tears is much more than a mischeavous deed. In my opinion, Eddie went way over the top on this one, and became outright mean, way past the usual harmless, silly stuff that he usually did.

I was amost hoping to see Wally "clobber" Eddie! :)

I actually titled the thread "Politically Incorrect Eddie" to soften it a bit. I was thinking of calling "Was Eddie being racist." I really that it wasn't being truly a racist, more like a xenophobe, (a fear of foreigners) but it all boils down to the same thing. Being mean to someone who has a different culture or ethnicity. And Eddie went way beyond that. I think Eddie was just being mean. I think that would have been true even in the 50's.

I have seen that episode several times, and have never, until now, thought of it as being racist

I thought of it as Eddie just being very mean, and not being "cute or funny" at all. Usually his "pranks" made someone feel stupid or foolish, but not hurt to the point that Chuey was.

I wonder what the writers were thinking.

Did "Chuey" appear in any other episodes? If so, I would love to see them.

I myself don't see this as a racist ep. I agree this was the meanest trick I've seen Eddie do but I did laugh out loud when Beaver said those words. And Chuey's look on his face....I laughed again.:lol:

Remember how Eddie said that Chuey's family was stuck up? I think he said his father told him. Anyway, they may have been showing how kids pick up those attitudes from their parents.

What exactly happened at the end, with Eddie? I know everything got straightened out with Chuey and his parents and the Cleavers, but I can't remember what happened with Eddie. Did he apologize?

No, Eddie does not apologize, and I don't think the viewer is led to believe he ever will. But it is interesting how when Wally says he is going to slug Eddie and June stops him because it's Sunday (???) and then he says he will slug him the next day, Ward refuses to say any words to dissuade him.

But really, I think Wally is made to look foolish when he sees Chuey going away in tears and Eddie laughing, and he does nothing right then and there. He should have known exactly what had happened, but he seems to give Eddie the benefit of the doubt, and even more.

Did Wally slug Eddie the next day? That's entirely up to your imagination.

I thought Eddie was being mean, but not racist. I don't think he was being specifically mean to Chuey because Chuey was hispanic. I think he did it because he could.

Actually, I didn't feel like he was being racist either (and I am part Latin). Eddie was just being himself really....you know, he just likes to play mean jokes sometimes.

I don't think the episode itself was racist but I was very offended by Eddie's treatment of Cheuy. I think the writers crossed the line with that story. It seemed as though someone had an issue with Mexicans and took it upon themselves to bring it out on the show. I have Mexican relatives who I love dearly and I thought that if they were in that situation(which I'm sure they have been) my heart would just break for them.

No offense but, some people have nothing better to do than sit around and find something bad about something. You're looking into this too much. I can't stand how politically correct out society is anyhow. This is far from racist. It's just Eddie having fun. Get over it.

Wait....I just realized that someone was "offended" by Leave it to Beaver. You need to loosen up. I get so tired of people complaining about everything. Anyway, that's all I have to say on this subject. Eddie Haskel is one of the greatest TV characters of all time!

I have plenty to do, okay?

I was merely expressing an opinion. I think after hearing all the opinions posted that probably it wasn't "racist" but it was mean. I don't have to "get over" expressing my feelings on that. That's the point of this board, isn't it?

And I believe I said that I love Eddie's character. I also made the point that it was early in his character and the later Eddie would never have done something like that. He was mischievous, but he had a softer side.

I also know that a plotline like that would never go over nowadays and not because we're so politically correct, but we're just more aware of how people feel.

And since when is making a little kid cry funny?

Sir, YOU need to get over it, okay?

Originally posted by frani
I have plenty to do, okay?

I was merely expressing an opinion. I think after hearing all the opinions posted that probably it wasn't "racist" but it was mean. I don't have to "get over" expressing my feelings on that. That's the point of this board, isn't it?

And I believe I said that I love Eddie's character. I also made the point that it was early in his character and the later Eddie would never have done something like that. He was mischievous, but he had a softer side.

I also know that a plotline like that would never go over nowadays and not because we're so politically correct, but we're just more aware of how people feel.

And since when is making a little kid cry funny?

Sir, YOU need to get over it, okay?



:clap Good for you frani. Nothing wrong with speaking your mind.
I agree that was mean of Eddie to do that. I've seen that ep a million times and had never thought much about it. I didn't think it was racist. Eddie was just taking advantage of Chuey because he couldn't understand English. I don't think it had anything to do with him being Hispanic. I didn't like the fact that he never apologized though. Like in the ep where Eddie and Lumpy changed the grade on Beavers repotr card, Wally made him apologize. Like I said before If I were wally I would have beat Eddie up anyway.

I always thought Eddie was just being Eddie. I never thought of it as anything else.

Nah, it was not intended to be racist, just mean, and that comes in all shapes and colors....

Originally posted by GidgetCleaver
I always thought Eddie was just being Eddie. I never thought of it as anything else.

That's exactly what it was.

It's important to examine what makes Eddie tick. He's not evil, nor cruel. He'd never do anything like run a lawn mower over a cat or do anything which would obviously endanger someone's life or get another into what even Eddie would recognise as serious trouble, such as getting expelled or arrested. (Admittedly, he might let someone else get into serious trouble if revealing the truth would turn that trouble his way.) Eddie draws the line at physically injuring someone or causing concrete harm.

Eddie's problem is emotional blindness.

If one reads into the various snatches of dialogue spoken over the course of the show, Eddie was raised in an atmosphere where he was often belittled or made to feel insignificant by his father and probably had an ineffectual mother. This probably taught Eddie two lessons in life early:

One: having one's feelings hurt is a natural component of life; in fact, it is a normal recurring experience.

Two: the way to elevate oneself is to make someone else look foolish

If we hold this to be reasonable, then it follows that Eddie has developed a certain emotional blindness to how things emotionally hurt other people--psychological "scar tissue", as it were. It also inhibits his social development, keeping him from seeing the way most people really see him.

Thus, Eddie has two goals in life: to avoid disapproval; and to "improve" his social acceptance by humiliating others with pranks and put-downs.

Evidence of his desire to avoid disapproval is his obsequiousness around Ward and June, or any other parental figure. Evidence of his desire to achieve acceptence by stepping on others is his constant attempts to belittle anyone not in a position to retaliate. The Beaver is a prime target.

This was the motivation for what he did to the Beaver and Chuey. It was not directed against Chuey because of his race per se. In other words, it wasn't motivated by a dislike of Hispanics or by a sense that they were inferior to Causasians. Those things probably never even occurred to Eddie. Chuey being Hispanic was a circumstance, fortunate in Eddie's eyes, because he knew enough of Chuey's language to play the prank.

In Eddie's eyes, it wasn't even a mean thing to do, because he was blind to the impact of hurt it would cause either Beaver or Chuey. To Eddie, it was simply a level of degradation that he believed was a normal part of life and, sadly, had himself become accustomed to.

However, there is a caveat: as has been shown, deep in his core, Eddie is a decent boy and does understand the sheer panic and fear that can result when one screws up badly--case in point: when he bailed the Beaver out after Beav accidentally ruined Wally's suit. Therefore, at a level which Eddie doesn't like to look at, he does know how much his pranks can hurt. Witness, after teaching the Beaver how to say "You have the face of a pig" in Spanish, Eddie didn't hang around to see the results of his handiwork, when Beav actually said it to Chuey. That could have been because, at a level even Eddie couldn't ignore, he knew Chuey would be genuinely hurt by the remark and didn't want to see that. So long as he didn't see the emotional pain on Chuey's face, Eddie could convince himself that it was no big deal.

One more thing to consider, to some degree in Eddie's favour, no less. The natural thing would be for him to hang around with others who view the world the same way he does. With a group like that, his pranks would elevate his prestige.

But instead, Eddie chooses to associate with Wally, who is the antithesis of the way Eddie expects people in the world to behave. That could be because Eddie admires Wally and envies his secure home and supportive parents. The deeply buried decent Eddie wishes he could be like Wally; unfortunately, Eddie finds it easier to be the way he is.

But, is Eddie a racist? Not based on this episode.

And this is far too much analysis of a pleasant little sitcom .

Very true, Commander Benson, and very well put!

Wait a minute people. Lets take another look at this Chuey episode. I think in todays terms, it WAS politically correct. It shows the difficulities a Hispanic family was having in the lilly white 1950s Mayfield culture. I think it was wondeful the way the cleavers reached out, and made the Hispanic family feel welcome in their home. And when the language misunderstanding occured, Ward crossed the cultural and language barriers, to make things right. I think the Cleavers were very progressive for the times. As for Eddie, he was just being his ignorant self. This episode was anything but racist, and it is one of the best ones.:thumbsup:

No, I never said or even questioned if the ep was racist. I was questioning if Eddie's behavior was. I thought Beav and Wally and the Cleaver parents were terrific.

Don't get me wrong Frani, I wasn't questioning you. It is intresting to think, would Eddie even know it if he was a racist? Did teenagers think about those issues back than? The only black person I remember seeing on the series, was the maid in the episode where Wally and Eddie were parking cars. Eddie was courteous to her. But he did give her a story about how he parked cars for the governor.

thanks wally, and thanks everyone for your really interesting comments. You're all so cool. That's why i love this board.:) :) :)

Originally posted by wallyisneat
It shows the difficulities a Hispanic family was having in the lilly white 1950s Mayfield culture. .:thumbsup: lilly white lilly white

Lilly White, I hate that term. It is always used in a derogative manner. Where did we in our current PC climate come to the point where whites are able to refer to themselves negatively? Not only that but place blame on themselves for the failure of other races.

I guess your right Ward, that term could be taken as offensive. I did not intend that however, I was just describing the culture at the time. I wasn't trying to blame white people for anything, but you have to admit, we haven't always been perfect!:rolleyes:

Originally posted by wallyisneat
I guess your right Ward, that term could be taken as offensive. I did not intend that however, I was just describing the culture at the time. I wasn't trying to blame white people for anything, but you have to admit, we haven't always been perfect!:rolleyes:

Thanks for the response and the explanation. I took it that way because in todays poiltical climate its usually used in that way. As to not being perfect, well who has. But upon adding it all up there has been no other group who has done more. Even those who choose to complain have never had it better and for what its worth have it far worse in their own homeland.

I don't particularly think that it was intended for Eddie to be racist, but it did come off that way. He was basically using Chuey's racial/cultural difference as an advantage to play a cruel joke. What if an African-American family moved into the neighborhood and Eddie told Beaver to call one of the kids by the 'N' word? Eddie may not have harbored any hatred for African-Americans, but I think everyone would agree that it was a racist act because it plays on the sensitivities of race and difference in a negative way.

BTW, does this episode still get shown? (I've never seen it). I would think that networks would be a little hesistant to put it on the air.

Originally posted by C_ME

BTW, does this episode still get shown? (I've never seen it). I would think that networks would be a little hesistant to put it on the air.

I saw it on TVL about 2 weeks ago.

Yes, it was on just a few weeks ago. That's what made me bring up the topic in the first place.

Originally posted by C_ME
I don't particularly think that it was intended for Eddie to be racist, but it did come off that way. He was basically using Chuey's racial/cultural difference as an advantage to play a cruel joke. What if an African-American family moved into the neighborhood and Eddie told Beaver to call one of the kids by the 'N' word? Eddie may not have harbored any hatred for African-Americans, but I think everyone would agree that it was a racist act because it plays on the sensitivities of race and difference in a negative way.

BTW, does this episode still get shown? (I've never seen it). I would think that networks would be a little hesistant to put it on the air.

CME, I think you are for certain a product of todays political climate. Here is a quote from you: "He was basically using Chuey's racial/cultural difference ." Where was he doing this? I'll tell you what he was doing, playing a joke based on the fact that the kid spoke a different lanuage. Big deal, so where was he "using" racial/cultural differences? Eddie was only using the fact he spoke a different language.........that is all. See, you have been so sensitized to all the present day racial talkspeak that is all you see. The joke he played on Chuey was no more harsh than a dozen other jokes and things done to Beave and other charactors on this show throughout the shows run. And to think in your mind that this henious act is so horrible that it may be censored from the airwaves? That is scary.............

Originally posted by WardOleMan
I'll tell you what he was doing, playing a joke based on the fact that the kid spoke a different lanuage. Big deal, so where was he "using" racial/cultural differences? Eddie was only using the fact he spoke a different language.........that is all.

That's one way of looking at it, but sometimes I feel that racism is rationalized in the form of "Oh, he was just trying to be funny" or "Oh, that's just the way he is". An act can have nonracial intentions and still be racial. Sometimes, you have to think outside of the bracket. If someone found this type of behavior offensive, then maybe it is more than it seems.

Originally posted by C_ME
If someone found this type of behavior offensive, then maybe it is more than it seems.

I found it offensive, and was surprised the writers would go in that direction. I would have liked the episode, if it had ended with Eddie saying he was sorry for what he had caused. Of course, that would not be Eddie. I wonder how many young kids that watched it, may think as Eddie didn't get into any trouble, they might try doing the same thing.

I think that the later, more developed Eddie would either not have certainly apologized. He's much more one-dimensional in the earlier eps. The older, teenaged Eddie has charm and an edge that allows him to be a jerk and to know he's being a jerk. That's why he can pull it off, I think. He has Wally to reel him in and to see how socially undesirable his behavior can be. Think of the Dudley episode. Eddie makes fun of Dudley, but he is given motive that of fear of losing Wally's friendship and also it is Eddie's job to tease the new, oddly dressed Dudley. But, he gets his comeuppance at the end and is forced to see the error of his ways. This happens over and over in the later eps. In the earlier eps, Eddie is just a mean, pranky pain in the ass. He's the kind of kid who might torture a small animal or something like that. I think that the writers saw that Eddie was a good foil for Wally. But I think that the later Eddie is more of an interesting character and always sees the error of his ways, or we at least see him as being left friendless (at least for the moment). We don't see this happen in the Chuey ep.

I'm sorry, I meant that the later Eddie WOULD have apologized. At least to Wally.

Originally posted by C_ME
That's one way of looking at it, but sometimes I feel that racism is rationalized in the form of "Oh, he was just trying to be funny" or "Oh, that's just the way he is". An act can have nonracial intentions and still be racial. Sometimes, you have to think outside of the bracket. If someone found this type of behavior offensive, then maybe it is more than it seems.

It's a shame that you choose to find racism around every corner and under every rock. Todays media has trained you well. I guess to you every failure of "people of color" is because of racism. Gee, I love these new buzzwords. What will they come up with next?

Originally posted by frani
I was very disturbed by Eddie and his treatment of Beav's friend Chuey in the ep where Beav is friend's with the diplomat's sun and Eddie has Beav say something mean in Spanish. I think it makes Eddie to be little more than a racist redneck. I do think it was before Eddie was developed into a more sympathetci character later on, but he was still one dimensional in these early eps.

I mean, I love Eddie's character so much, but we all know that there is no way a character could or should do something like that on tv today, except as being a totally evil person. Thoughts, please?

Eddie is my fav character also, and I agree. It was mean. ohno:

This idea being bandied about that it was a simple prank then but "politcally incorrect" rascism today is not true in my experience. I was brought up in the era of Leave it to Beaver. If I had pulled a stunt like what Eddie pulled back then, I would have been called to the carpet for it. I wouldn't have done that though because, just like Wally and the Beaver, I knew better than to do that sort of thing. It was just as insensitive in 1960 as it is in 2003.

I think Frani has it about right as far as Eddie's character development filling out later, and about how the writers sort of took the low road for a cheap prank in that episode. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the writers, and others responsble for the show, had regrets about having produced that episode. I thought it was in poor taste, one blip of a low point in the otherwise great legacy of Leave it to Beaver.

Originally posted by Kitt
This idea being bandied about that it was a simple prank then but "politcally incorrect" rascism today is not true in my experience. I was brought up in the era of Leave it to Beaver. If I had pulled a stunt like what Eddie pulled back then, I would have been called to the carpet for it. I wouldn't have done that though because, just like Wally and the Beaver, I knew better than to do that sort of thing. It was just as insensitive in 1960 as it is in 2003.

I thought it was in poor taste, one blip of a low point in the otherwise great legacy of Leave it to Beaver.

It may of been for you in your family, but to make the assertion that this would of been just as sensitive an issue back then as compared to the political climate now is just foolishness. Where is it suggested that Eddie Haskell has it out for Spanish folk? You are reading this in todays terms with all the baggage in todays media that just never stops with the race card. People are fired today in the media for the mere mention of race in a way that isn't popular with todays thought police. Race is everwhere today. In job hirings, school curriculum, standarized testing, sports staffing, college admissions and on and on. Have you been in a what is considered "normal" high school today to see the result of "accepting" everyones cultural diversity? Please Kitt, get off you high horse and see things for what the are. There is NO comparison between the two time periods.

Lastly, why is it that Chuey could not at least thought there could of been a mistake made. He knew that Beaver was a friend and that he didn't speak Spanish. Wasn't it possible that the Beave could of made a mistake in trying to talk Spanish with him? Could he of not at least asked Beaver about this thinking he may of got his words mixed up instead of just running out?

The fact that this episode has been singled out for racism truly shows the sensitivity we've sunk to in these times. Some have even shown surprise that it is allowed to still be aired. What does this show the LITB would be a product for censorship? Time to do your own thinking folks and stop allowing others to do it for you.......!!!

Originally posted by WardOleMan
Please Kitt, get off you high horse and see things for what the are. How about this? I disagree with you. I have my opinion, you have yours. Feel free to ride your "high horse" into the sunset and carry off the maiden if it will make you feel cool. Lay off of me though, man. I didn't ask for, and I don't need your advice.

Originally posted by Kitt
How about this? I disagree with you. I have my opinion, you have yours. Feel free to ride your "high horse" into the sunset and carry off the maiden if it will make you feel cool. Lay off of me though, man. I didn't ask for, and I don't need your advice.

I'll lay off if I want to. Your "feel good" argument is just that. I don't doubt your own family experience but you can't expand that to include the rest of society at that time. I responded to you only because I could tell you included some of what I had stated earlier. Sorry, but whether you "ask me" to or not I have that right. Why you are unable to see the vast changes in thinking from the two time periods is bizarre. Is there a reason for this?

Look, Isn't it about time we concluded this board? We are degenerating into name calling and accusations here. Not what these boards are about! Why don't we leave it at that/offtopic: