...Mackenzie Phillips left the show and Nick and Alex joined the cast.

Feel free to substitute your own reason for when you think it jumped...

It definately jumped the shark then but it got worse when Ann married Sam Royer. I like Howard Hesseman on WKRP but not on ODAAT.

I agree. Hesseman's much funnier as a burned-out D.J. then a nice husband. Besides, Ann marrying ruined the premise of the show and led to its demise.

:rolleyes:

I actually liked it better without McKenzie Phillips because we got to see more of Valerie Bertinelli. She was the girl with the real beauty and talent. It did jump when Ann married. This should have happened on the last episode.

Originally posted by Dr. Thong
I agree. Hesseman's much funnier as a burned-out D.J. then a nice husband. Besides, Ann marrying ruined the premise of the show and led to its demise.

:rolleyes:

Not necessarily. Even though the initial plot of the show was a recently divorced woman with two teenage daughters, the show eventually had to switch focuses because both her daughters were grown up and were married (and divorced, which was Julie). I think it was a nice touch seeing her eventually marrying again.

i posted my feelings about sam royer on my own thred but ill say it again sam royer is my no 1 chioce for all time sitcom jerk he rellay got o on my last nerve

It's been so long since I've seen this show I completely forgot Howard Hesseman was on there. I was a Glenn Scarpelli fan though.

One Day at a Time survived several shark jumps during it's long run.

1. Mackenzie Phillips leaves, returns and her character Julie gets married.
2. Barbara marries Mark.

3. Ann gets remarried to Sam.

4. And perhaps the number one shark jump, the addition of Glenn Scarpelli as Alex.

The addition of Adrian Zhmed

Originally posted by Brian Damage
The addition of Adrian Zhmed

You mean the mini-Adrian Zmed!

I think the show definitely jumped when that annoying little bastard came on the show.

agreed

Originally posted by Brian Damage
agreed

They should have killed him off in the same car crash that killed his Dad. Oh well, at least his dad got resurrected on Alias and several other movies as a bad guy.

:wave:

Originally posted by Dr. Thong
...Mackenzie Phillips left the show and Nick and Alex joined the cast.

Feel free to substitute your own reason for when you think it jumped...

:nod: That's when I thought it jumped.

when alex's father nick was a killed in a druck driving accident and his mother elinor donahue(i don't know what her characters name was) who insisted that alex move into ann & barbaras apartment is when ONE DAY AT A TIME jumped the shark in my opinion!
it was the bringing the new child into a sitcom to refresh the series cliche again!
i did'nt like howard hesseman as sam royer either.
he was too conservative and unentertaining in that role!
but i loved him on WKRP IN CINCINNATI as dr. johnny fever!

APPLEI,

Don't count on WKRP coming out on DVD in the near future...if ever.

They don't have the rights to the music they originally used and would have to pay a fortune in licensing fees or re-dub all of the episodes with new music.

It's too much money either way and too labor-intensive to redub, so unless you believe in miracles, forget about it.

1. The ninth season. The show was on its last legs and it was showing.

2. The show lost its drive when MacKenzie Phillips became too strung out on drugs and was removed from the show (twice that was).

3. The addition of Nick and Alex. There were no romantic chemistry between Ann and Nick. Huge mistake romantically linking them.

Originally posted by Dr. Thong
APPLEI,

Don't count on WKRP coming out on DVD in the near future...if ever.

They don't have the rights to the music they originally used and would have to pay a fortune in licensing fees or re-dub all of the episodes with new music.

It's too much money either way and too labor-intensive to redub, so unless you believe in miracles, forget about it.

yes dr. thong
i know its a longshot
but i do believe in miracles!
i noticed FOXDVD is considering releasing "the wonder years" on dvd and it has as much copyrighted music as "wkrp in cincinnati"!
i also noticed paramount is considering releasing "happy days" and "laverne and shirley" on dvd and they have alot of copyrighted music in most episodes!
my "blues brothers" and "american graffiti" dvds have all original music on them or atleast to the best of my knowledge they do.
i would be willing to pay extra to get all 90 episodes of wkrp in cincinnati on dvd with original music even if its a limited edition release.

i'm not giving up hope
i look forword to talking to you "dr. thong" on the wkrp in cincinnati board in the near future

Originally posted by APPLEI
yes dr. thong
i know its a longshot
but i do believe in miracles!

Hey, that's cool too. You never know, it could happen. The Eagles said back in the eighties that hell would freeze over before they got back together. And what was the name of their comeback album...Hell Freezes Over.

Like Peter Gabriel once said, "Don't Give Up."

I would love to see WKRP on DVD, but it would have to have the original music. I read that the music they substituted for syndicated reruns changed the feel of the scenes.

Mac Phillips helped make the show and was missed when she was gone.

Originally posted by ThomasE
Mac Phillips helped make the show and was missed when she was gone.

In basically any show, once key members of the original cast start leaving, the show begins its decline.

Once The Ropers left Three's Company, the decline began and when Suzanne Somers was fired, the show was pretty much over.

I've gotta say that Howard Hessman playing Sam Royer had to be one of the lowest point in a tv acting career ever! The viewers could tell he was doing it solely for the money and had no real liking for the role. I mean, did anyone think it was possible that Dr. Johnny Fever could have sired and raised such a square bore as Barbara's husband?

Here's when the show started the shark jump:
MacKenzie Phillips being fired for the first time for her drug addiction. The first season without her the void was felt. Nick and Alex was not the one. They did a lousy job filling the void.
Nick and Ann's relationship. There was no romantic chemistry between those two. I hated the character of Nick. He was such male chauvenistic jerk.
Ann being guardian to Alex after his father died. That was so far fetched. In reality Alex would had been sent to a relative for his upbringing. Not someone his father was romantically involved with.
The second to the last season of the series. It seems like that whole season was dealing with major transitions of the characters of the show. It started with Mark and Barbara's wedding, Julie giving birth to her child, Max and Julie moving back to Indianapolis so that Max can attempt to be a writer, Ann meeting, dating and eventually marrying her son-in-law's father and Barbara and Julie, along with their husbands, renting a house together. The plots that was so far fetched that season was the first time Ann meets Sam, Mark's father, she sleeps with him. HELLO many middle adults do not get involve immediately like that. Max quitting his steady job with the airlines to become a writer was so far fetched. What kind of wife would support such an illogical decision???

Excellent points, everyone -

too many shark jumps to count...

Story wise, I liked the early episodes... but I still watched after many of the jump the shark moments, because Valerie Bertinelli kept getting more and more beautiful every year...

So even after Julie left the show, and Glenn "the pest" Scarpelli moved in, and Max and Mark came on to the scene, I still watched for a while, just to see Valerie...

Ah, Valerie Bertinelli... the Mary Ann / Ginger of Indianapolis

:loveya:

Originally posted by Tweety
Excellent points, everyone -

too many shark jumps to count...

Story wise, I liked the early episodes... but I still watched after many of the jump the shark moments, because Valerie Bertinelli kept getting more and more beautiful every year...

So even after Julie left the show, and Glenn "the pest" Scarpelli moved in, and Max and Mark came on to the scene, I still watched for a while, just to see Valerie...

Ah, Valerie Bertinelli... the Mary Ann / Ginger of Indianapolis

:loveya:
And even after it jumped the shark it was still watchable. I agree with you about Valerie.

Originally posted by mr roper

And even after it jumped the shark it was still watchable. I agree with you about Valerie.

I remember being slightly shocked when I read that in real-life that Valerie smoked. I remember reading the TV Guide article where she realized she was smoking in front of an interviewer and asked the reporter not to write that she smoked.

Compared to what MacKenzie was doing, pretty tame stuff.

Originally posted by Dr. Thong
I remember being slightly shocked when I read that in real-life that Valerie smoked. I remember reading the TV Guide article where she realized she was smoking in front of an interviewer and asked the reporter not to write that she smoked.

Compared to what MacKenzie was doing, pretty tame stuff.

Wow, that's funny...

But lest we forget, at the time ODAAT ran, Valerie B was considered to be the absolute perfect, all American girl... so at least for a while, she probably wanted to maintain that image (not that she's still not an All American Girl, but she did marry Eddie Van Halen...who could have predicted that at the time?)

Originally posted by Tweety
Wow, that's funny...

But lest we forget, at the time ODAAT ran, Valerie B was considered to be the absolute perfect, all American girl... so at least for a while, she probably wanted to maintain that image (not that she's still not an All American Girl, but she did marry Eddie Van Halen...who could have predicted that at the time?)

I believe the article came out the same year she married Eddie. In fact, the name of the article was "Careful, Honey - don't slip off that pedestal."

I'm sure her feelings about her image derived from the fact that MacKenzie Phillips had gone off the deep end with drugs.

I've gotta say that Howard Hessman playing Sam Royer had to be one of the lowest point in a tv acting career ever! The viewers could tell he was doing it solely for the money and had no real liking for the role. I mean, did anyone think it was possible that Dr. Johnny Fever could have sired and raised such a square bore as Barbara's husband?


" A square bore , I beg your pardon" :lol: :D


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vy9FdYyNjhI/hqdefault.jpg

Here's when the show started the shark jump:
MacKenzie Phillips being fired for the first time for her drug addiction. The first season without her the void was felt. Nick and Alex was not the one. They did a lousy job filling the void.
Nick and Ann's relationship. There was no romantic chemistry between those two. I hated the character of Nick. He was such male chauvenistic jerk.
Ann being guardian to Alex after his father died. That was so far fetched. In reality Alex would had been sent to a relative for his upbringing. Not someone his father was romantically involved with.
The second to the last season of the series. It seems like that whole season was dealing with major transitions of the characters of the show. It started with Mark and Barbara's wedding, Julie giving birth to her child, Max and Julie moving back to Indianapolis so that Max can attempt to be a writer, Ann meeting, dating and eventually marrying her son-in-law's father and Barbara and Julie, along with their husbands, renting a house together. The plots that was so far fetched that season was the first time Ann meets Sam, Mark's father, she sleeps with him. HELLO many middle adults do not get involve immediately like that. Max quitting his steady job with the airlines to become a writer was so far fetched. What kind of wife would support such an illogical decision???


THIS!!!

Max being a writer was so poorly executed. He had no particular genre he was interested in, he just wrote randomly about nothing in particular.

They should have made his dream into becoming an exotic dancer! Let him shake his moneymaker...;) :lol: :happyface :crazy: :happyface

" A square bore , I beg your pardon" :lol: :D


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vy9FdYyNjhI/hqdefault.jpg

Wake up, Mark!:D

THIS!!!

Max being a writer was so poorly executed. He had no particular genre he was interested in, he just wrote randomly about nothing in particular.

They should have made his dream into becoming an exotic dancer! Let him shake his moneymaker...;) :lol: :happyface :crazy: :happyface


:D :happyface :eyes:


Julie would have LOVED that!!!! :rolleyes: She was jealous and couldn't even handle him working for an airline, thinking he was cheating on her with flight attendants! She would not stand for him dancing half nude in front of drunk horny ladies! :crazy: :lol: :D

" A square bore , I beg your pardon" :lol: :D


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vy9FdYyNjhI/hqdefault.jpg


Kelly Gaines Boyd :) ;)


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-n--rFxHOOwk/T-QnPstxF0I/AAAAAAAAKd4/t7oO_PX5kOQ/s1600/img001_074.jpg

:D :happyface :eyes:


Julie would have LOVED that!!!! :rolleyes: She was jealous and couldn't even handle him working for an airline, thinking he was cheating on her with flight attendants! She would not stand for him dancing half nude in front of drunk horny ladies! :crazy: :lol: :D

I know, right?

Julie would have really gone off her rocker with that one! :lol: :wave: :lol:

I always thought Julie cheating on Max because of the airline thing seemed like a lame excuse.

Then he instantly forgives her after the way she treated him? And doesn't get a paternity test when she says she is pregnant after she brazenly throws her affair in his face? UGH!!! Where is your pride, man? :mad:

Only on One Day At A Time...:crazy:

I know, right?

Julie would have really gone off her rocker with that one! :lol: :wave: :lol:

I always thought Julie cheating on Max because of the airline thing seemed like a lame excuse.

Then he instantly forgives her after the way she treated him? And doesn't get a paternity test when she says she is pregnant after she brazenly throws her affair in his face? UGH!!! Where is your pride, man? :mad:

Only on One Day At A Time...:crazy:


And than the baby is born with blonde hair and blue eyes! ..........:rolleyes: :D


Mark is saying " Well maybe I'm a square bore, but I'm a wise bore! Wake up and smell the coffee, Max that kid is not yours"!!!! ;)


http://www.sitcomsonline.com/photopost/data/731/medium/Boyd_Gaines_Michael_Lembeck_One_Day.jpg

And than the baby is born with blonde hair and blue eyes! ..........:rolleyes: :D


Mark is saying " Well maybe I'm a square bore, but I'm a wise bore! Wake up and smell the coffee, Max that kid is not yours"!!!! ;)


http://www.sitcomsonline.com/photopost/data/731/medium/Boyd_Gaines_Michael_Lembeck_One_Day.jpg

With the song "Billie Jean" playing in the background. :lol:

Great photo for that moment! :wave:

Sandman here. Going to sleep with a laugh about that pic with Harold's baby...:lol:

With the song "Billie Jean" playing in the background. :lol:

Great photo for that moment! :wave:

Sandman here. Going to sleep with a laugh about that pic with Harold's baby...:lol:


Me too, Some TV with the Hub, than I'm going to call it a day too! :wave:

There was a similar thread I did not know existed.
However, as I originally said, I watched the show regularly for its first few seasons then lost track of it except when I occasionally tuned in and I noticed great changes with the characters. I am surprised to learn now of how those changes came to be and what they were.

I did not know Alex was on the series for about 3 years and then just written off.

Some people seem to think that when he was added, the show Jumped-the-Shark, some seem to think that when he was taken out of the show then the show Jumped-the-Shark. Someone said that if the show Jumped-the-Shark when Alex was added, then it was an improvement.

I do agree that since the character was an abandoned young boy, that it was cruel and strange that Ann Romano, after taking care of him for 3 years just got rid of him because she remarried and her husband did not want the boy around.
It seems that this really put Ms Romano in a very bad light.
Of course it is the kind of scenario that is probably very real in a lot of people's lives. Getting remarried often means that a woman's new mate will not want "relics of older relationships" around, meaning step children, or adopted children.

Regarding the characters of the sitcom:
Was Alex ever officially adopted by Ann Romano?
When he was sent away for good, was he just told to pack and leave?
How old was he was abandoned by Ann and her new husband?
Was he at least 18 so that legally he can be on his own?

Did it happen in one episode or was there more than one episode in which it was indicated that Alex was leaving, and then came the one episode in which he finally left for good?

Was it ever indicated in the show that arrangements were made that he live with someone else? Who?

Didn't this make Ann Romano some kind of villain and really dislike-able character? (Of course I never saw the episode(s). I only read about it here on sitcomsonline and may misunderstand exactly how it was carried out).

My best understanding is that when ODAAT did its series finale, Ann Romano was depicted as deciding to move to London for good because that is where her job had relocated and she left her daughters in the US, but Julie was married and had a child of her own, Barbara had just married, and of course Ann's "temporary son" Alex was sent away somewhere.

How old was Ann Romano supposed to be when she decided to move to London? She must have been in her mid 40s while her daughters were in their teens at the very beginning of the show. She must have been entering retirement age when she moved so as to stay with her job.


Curious.
Some TV shows that are cancelled don't have the characters depict an "ending scene" which explains what all the characters will go on to do.
They just end abruptly with an episode that does not indicate that there won't be another new episode.
That would make a good thread for discussion.

No need to feel overwhelmed. Just answer what you know about.

There was a similar thread I did not know existed.
However, as I originally said, I watched the show regularly for its first few seasons then lost track of it except when I occasionally tuned in and I noticed great changes with the characters. I am surprised to learn now of how those changes came to be and what they were.

I did not know Alex was on the series for about 3 years and then just written off.

Some people seem to think that when he was added, the show Jumped-the-Shark, some seem to think that when he was taken out of the show then the show Jumped-the-Shark. Someone said that if the show Jumped-the-Shark when Alex was added, then it was an improvement.

I do agree that since the character was an abandoned young boy, that it was cruel and strange that Ann Romano, after taking care of him for 3 years just got rid of him because she remarried and her husband did not want the boy around.
It seems that this really put Ms Romano in a very bad light.
Of course it is the kind of scenario that is probably very real in a lot of people's lives. Getting remarried often means that a woman's new mate will not want "relics of older relationships" around, meaning step children, or adopted children.

Regarding the characters of the sitcom:
Was Alex ever officially adopted by Ann Romano?
When he was sent away for good, was he just told to pack and leave?
How old was he was abandoned by Ann and her new husband?
Was he at least 18 so that legally he can be on his own?

Did it happen in one episode or was there more than one episode in which it was indicated that Alex was leaving, and then came the one episode in which he finally left for good?

Was it ever indicated in the show that arrangements were made that he live with someone else? Who?

Didn't this make Ann Romano some kind of villain and really dislike-able character? (Of course I never saw the episode(s). I only read about it here on sitcomsonline and may misunderstand exactly how it was carried out).

My best understanding is that when ODAAT did its series finale, Ann Romano was depicted as deciding to move to London for good because that is where her job had relocated and she left her daughters in the US, but Julie was married and had a child of her own, Barbara had just married, and of course Ann's "temporary son" Alex was sent away somewhere.

How old was Ann Romano supposed to be when she decided to move to London? She must have been in her mid 40s while her daughters were in their teens at the very beginning of the show. She must have been entering retirement age when she moved so as to stay with her job.


Curious.
Some TV shows that are cancelled don't have the characters depict an "ending scene" which explains what all the characters will go on to do.
They just end abruptly with an episode that does not indicate that there won't be another new episode.
That would make a good thread for discussion.

No need to feel overwhelmed. Just answer what you know about.

Ann was about 42 when she went to London. The story about her leaving should have been in the form of a multi episode arc, the whole thing was wrapped up haphazardly with her getting an offer out of nowhere to head up a computer company or something and her partner Francine bought her out. I think it would have been better if they both got the offer, it didn't make sense that she didn't get chosen as well since she was the one who did all the leg work and Ann was just the "creative" side of things. Francine took it all in stride though.

The way Alex was written out was atrocious. In the first episode of the last season Ann got a post card from Alex who had decided to stay with his mother, Felicia. She said she had mixed feelings about him leaving and her new husband said with a smirk that he didn't. She wasn't made to be a villain, they just moved on like a jumping shark. Quickly and efficiently. He was never mentioned again despite 3 years of living there.

He was never adopted formally but Ann said a few times that he was like her own son. (paraphrasing). It didn't seem that way by the way they concluded his character. Schneider was like a dad to him. He didn't get a few moments to reflect on him leaving either. Tacky. :(

I think a wrap up show would have been the classy way to handle this. On WINGS, Lowell got a great finale show when he went into witness protection and was able to say goodbye in a meaningful way.

Ann was about 42 when she went to London. The story about her leaving should have been in the form of a multi episode arc, the whole thing was wrapped up haphazardly with her getting an offer out of nowhere to head up a computer company or something and her partner Francine bought her out. I think it would have been better if they both got the offer, it didn't make sense that she didn't get chosen as well since she was the one who did all the leg work and Ann was just the "creative" side of things. Francine took it all in stride though.

The way Alex was written out was atrocious. In the first episode of the last season Ann got a post card from Alex who had decided to stay with his mother, Felicia. She said she had mixed feelings about him leaving and her new husband said with a smirk that he didn't. She wasn't made to be a villain, they just moved on like a jumping shark. Quickly and efficiently. He was never mentioned again despite 3 years of living there.

He was never adopted formally but Ann said a few times that he was like her own son. (paraphrasing). It didn't seem that way by the way they concluded his character. Schneider was like a dad to him. He didn't get a few moments to reflect on him leaving either. Tacky. :(

I think a wrap up show would have been the classy way to handle this. On WINGS, Lowell got a great finale show when he went into witness protection and was able to say goodbye in a meaningful way.


That's funny.
It always seemed to me that Ann Romano was in her 40s, at least early 40s throughout the very first episodes.
If she was 42 when she went to London on the very final episode, then considering that One Day At A Time was on the air from 1975 to 1984 (9 years), it means that she was 32 when she first moved into a new apartment with her two teen daughters. And I think her oldest, Julie was about 16 at the youngest , maybe even 17. So deducting 17 years from 32 years means that Ann Romano was a teenage mother and she had her first child at age 15 , or 17 at the oldest, not even legally an adult yet. I never heard it said in the show that Ms Romano became a mother in her teens.
I am about the same age as Valleri Bertinelli and I remember when the show first started "Barbara Romano" seemed to be slightly younger than me. She is actually a few months older.
Was it said at any time , or indicated in any way that Ann Romano was 42 when she left for London?

I wonder why Alex was written in in the first place only to have him written out in such a way. I know that new characters are introduced when any show gets too old and it specifically applies to teenage and child characters, but
then I wonder if the producers and writers of the show thought that the Alex character was just not working in terms of making the show more interesting and him taking the place of Barbara and Julie as far as giving Ms Romano a kid to deal with.
It could not have been planned all along that Alex would stay for 3 years and then be abruptly sent away. If it was, then that is an odd thing to do with a character and the only other time I heard about something like that was the characters of Stretch Cunningham and Beverly the female impersonator in All in The Family. Both characters were killed off.
I also wonder if the actor who played Alex just did not want to play the part anymore. It seemed that Alex was from 14 to 16 when he entered the Romano household, then he must have been from 17 to 19 when he left.

That's funny.
It always seemed to me that Ann Romano was in her 40s, at least early 40s throughout the very first episodes.
If she was 42 when she went to London on the very final episode, then considering that One Day At A Time was on the air from 1975 to 1984 (9 years), it means that she was 32 when she first moved into a new apartment with her two teen daughters. And I think her oldest, Julie was about 16 at the youngest , maybe even 17. So deducting 17 years from 32 years means that Ann Romano was a teenage mother and she had her first child at age 15 , or 17 at the oldest, not even legally an adult yet. I never heard it said in the show that Ms Romano became a mother in her teens.
I am about the same age as Valleri Bertinelli and I remember when the show first started "Barbara Romano" seemed to be slightly younger than me. She is actually a few months older.
Was it said at any time , or indicated in any way that Ann Romano was 42 when she left for London?

I wonder why Alex was written in in the first place only to have him written out in such a way. I know that new characters are introduced when any show gets too old and it specifically applies to teenage and child characters, but
then I wonder if the producers and writers of the show thought that the Alex character was just not working in terms of making the show more interesting and him taking the place of Barbara and Julie as far as giving Ms Romano a kid to deal with.
It could not have been planned all along that Alex would stay for 3 years and then be abruptly sent away. If it was, then that is an odd thing to do with a character and the only other time I heard about something like that was the characters of Stretch Cunningham and Beverly the female impersonator in All in The Family. Both characters were killed off.
I also wonder if the actor who played Alex just did not want to play the part anymore. It seemed that Alex was from 14 to 16 when he entered the Romano household, then he must have been from 17 to 19 when he left.


The actor who played Alex (Glenn Scarpelli) was offered a part on the new show "Jennifer slept here" with Ann Jillian! He accepted the offer and left ODAAT! :)

BUMP!!

2nd time this thread was bumped! :D

It becomes really funny on page 2 when Anna and I start chiming into a very old thread!!!!! :lol:

Someone called Mark a "Square bore" !!!:lol:

BUMP!!

2nd time this thread was bumped! :D

It becomes really funny on page 2 when Anna and I start chiming into a very old thread!!!!! :lol:

Someone called Mark a "Square bore" !!!:lol:

A square, well padded bore who is apparently very sleepy. :lol:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vy9FdYyNjhI/hqdefault.jpg

The decline began when Mackenzie Phillips first left the show. I didn't particularly care for the Julie character, but the conflict between her and Ann drove a lot of the stories. Without Julie, they lost two of the important relationships on the show: Ann/Julie and Barbara/Julie. The show floundered for storylines, and all the cast additions didn't help.

The decline began when Mackenzie Phillips first left the show. I didn't particularly care for the Julie character, but the conflict between her and Ann drove a lot of the stories. Without Julie, they lost two of the important relationships on the show: Ann/Julie and Barbara/Julie. The show floundered for storylines, and all the cast additions didn't help.

Yes, for sure but this was beyond their control. She was so deep into her habit she wasn't able to function properly. In one dinner scene in the episode "Male Jealousy" she was shot entirely from the back which was very telling about her ability to perform at that point.

I wonder what else they could have done at that point. Recast? Gotten her an onset counselor? She looked like she was near death's door both of the times she got fired. :(

Yes, for sure but this was beyond their control. She was so deep into her habit she wasn't able to function properly. In one dinner scene in the episode "Male Jealousy" she was shot entirely from the back which was very telling about her ability to perform at that point.

I wonder what else they could have done at that point. Recast? Gotten her an onset counselor? She looked like she was near death's door both of the times she got fired. :(

I never noticed that how they shot her in that scene - wow.

But let's not forget, even if the show "Jumped the Shark" creativly, it's ratings stayed strong till they started those time slot moves the last two seasons - Sunday to Midweek mid-season in Season 8 (But as my data shows in the main thread the show was still strong enough for them to offer the girls two more seasons) then back to Sunday for half of season 9 (Where it did well) then over to Wednesday (Filling for counter programming where it dropped then over to Monday for the final 3 where it did ok)

The term "Jump The Shark" is really overused - "Happy Days" had several strong and well written seasons before rating started to drop (Also the victim of time slot changes and held episodes till after the finale aired - they took the show off for several weeks, jumped ahead to air the finale during ,May sweeps then 6 "middle season" episodes finally aired - same thing hapend to "The Nanny")

Yes, I know "One Day at a Time" had 11 preemption in Season 9. and two 3 week blocks back to back without episodes prior to the Wednesday Move (3 weeks then "Fifity" aired then 3 weeks to the first Wednesday) but they never pulled the show and aired all 22 Season 9 Shows)

"Jumping the Shark" Creatively, EVERYTHING is connected to Mac's issues, no more no less. If She was Well, and healthy It's unlikely Glen and Ron would have been added, Max and Julie would have had strong story lines and carry their 3rd of the show, events would have happened seasons earlier and it's likely Bonnie and Val would have been less "tired" and more willing to stay for a 10th Season since Mac would have been there to carry her share of the work.

Remember what I've said, Val and Bonnie were carrying the work load of 3 leads from Season 6 onward, and most of Season 7 and a good chunk of 8 is more Barbara Centric. Everyone else, including Mac when she was on, was supporting. You have to give Bonnie and Val credit (and the ratings show it) for Saving The Show. They gave it their best, and some might say Bud Wiser, the producer saw both good progression and good storylines - but they never found a 3rd lead that worked. Every actor-actress brought in, or brought back were supporting players. God love Pat, but he wasn't leading material - even if they gave him several good storylines.

Mac killed the show, it just took 4 seasons. You can't blame CBS for the time-changes once they knew Val and Bonnie were not coming back after Season 9 and the show was ending - it was "Dead Show Walking" - it was the only Norman Lear show with a real end date - "Good Times" ending was a last minute thing when ratings dropped by It's December That season (and RHODA Shelved with 4 shows unaired - without Brenda married but engaged!) and then returned several months later. (and even it had 2 unaired episodes CBS just wanted to get rid of it!)

CBS stood by ODDAAT till the end, they just treated it differently than MASH. (And Val did several TV Movies for CBS the next handful of years)

Steve R. I am sure you must have seen this before but I am re posting it because it sheds light on the sad Mack situation.

J5k9wHbbgt0

yeh

I never noticed that how they shot her in that scene - wow.

But let's not forget, even if the show "Jumped the Shark" creativly, it's ratings stayed strong till they started those time slot moves the last two seasons - Sunday to Midweek mid-season in Season 8 (But as my data shows in the main thread the show was still strong enough for them to offer the girls two more seasons) then back to Sunday for half of season 9 (Where it did well) then over to Wednesday (Filling for counter programming where it dropped then over to Monday for the final 3 where it did ok)

The term "Jump The Shark" is really overused - "Happy Days" had several strong and well written seasons before rating started to drop (Also the victim of time slot changes and held episodes till after the finale aired - they took the show off for several weeks, jumped ahead to air the finale during ,May sweeps then 6 "middle season" episodes finally aired - same thing hapend to "The Nanny")

Yes, I know "One Day at a Time" had 11 preemption in Season 9. and two 3 week blocks back to back without episodes prior to the Wednesday Move (3 weeks then "Fifity" aired then 3 weeks to the first Wednesday) but they never pulled the show and aired all 22 Season 9 Shows)

"Jumping the Shark" Creatively, EVERYTHING is connected to Mac's issues, no more no less. If She was Well, and healthy It's unlikely Glen and Ron would have been added, Max and Julie would have had strong story lines and carry their 3rd of the show, events would have happened seasons earlier and it's likely Bonnie and Val would have been less "tired" and more willing to stay for a 10th Season since Mac would have been there to carry her share of the work.

Remember what I've said, Val and Bonnie were carrying the work load of 3 leads from Season 6 onward, and most of Season 7 and a good chunk of 8 is more Barbara Centric. Everyone else, including Mac when she was on, was supporting. You have to give Bonnie and Val credit (and the ratings show it) for Saving The Show. They gave it their best, and some might say Bud Wiser, the producer saw both good progression and good storylines - but they never found a 3rd lead that worked. Every actor-actress brought in, or brought back were supporting players. God love Pat, but he wasn't leading material - even if they gave him several good storylines.

Mac killed the show, it just took 4 seasons. You can't blame CBS for the time-changes once they knew Val and Bonnie were not coming back after Season 9 and the show was ending - it was "Dead Show Walking" - it was the only Norman Lear show with a real end date - "Good Times" ending was a last minute thing when ratings dropped by It's December That season (and RHODA Shelved with 4 shows unaired - without Brenda married but engaged!) and then returned several months later. (and even it had 2 unaired episodes CBS just wanted to get rid of it!)

CBS stood by ODDAAT till the end, they just treated it differently than MASH. (And Val did several TV Movies for CBS the next handful of years)


Wow! You sure have encyclopedia-like knowledge of the details, the change of time slots, at what particular time, for what reason, the preemptions, the politics and procedures behind planning the broadcast times for what seasons, the reported intent of certain regular actors to leave the show, the designing of plots that focused on certain characters and took away focus from other characters, etc.

Did you keep a log of everything that happened throughout those years for that TV show?

The definitive answer to this threads question, ODAAT jumped the shark anytime from Season 5 on that Max WASN'T in the ep.!!!! ;) :(

Season 6 with NO Max at all should have been called 'Jaws" !!! HaHa get it? ;) Jaws / Shark (Jumping the shark) !!!!:crazy: :lol: :D

Wow! You sure have encyclopedia-like knowledge of the details, the change of time slots, at what particular time, for what reason, the preemptions, the politics and procedures behind planning the broadcast times for what seasons, the reported intent of certain regular actors to leave the show, the designing of plots that focused on certain characters and took away focus from other characters, etc.

Did you keep a log of everything that happened throughout those years for that TV show?

Lots of research :)

For me it jumped in the 4th season when Ann Romano was given the unattractive, short, butch style haircut. It was still a good show but was never the same for me anymore from that point forward, the thrill was gone. :(

I was a high school freshman in 1975 when the show began, most of the guys in school who watched the show had the hots for Valerie B., but not me, I wanted the mature older woman Annie Romano. :eyes: :lol:

For me it jumped in the 4th season when Ann Romano was given the unattractive, short, butch style haircut. It was still a good show but was never the same for me anymore from that point forward, the thrill was gone. :(

I was a high school freshman in 1975 when the show began, most of the guys in school who watched the show had the hots for Valerie B., but not me, I wanted the mature older woman Annie Romano. :eyes: :lol:

OMG!!! It is you!!!! :eek: Retro Lee!!!! How are you? I thought it was the new RetroTV posting, than realized it was you!!! :eek: :wave:

Yeah!! I know you liked the early season Ann !!!:heart: She was cuter than! ;)

Well, I will catch you here or on the NBA thread!! :) :wave:

OMG!!! It is you!!!! :eek: Retro Lee!!!! How are you? I thought it was the new RetroTV posting, than realized it was you!!! :eek: :wave:

Yeah!! I know you liked the early season Ann !!!:heart: She was cuter than! ;)

Well, I will catch you here or on the NBA thread!! :) :wave:

Hey Bonnie :wave:, yes it is me, surprise surprise. :eek: :lol:

Back in the day I was really in love with Ann Romano. Today when I watch repeats of episodes from the early seasons she still has a similar effect on me. She was very cute with the longer hairstyle.

I'm posting these days mostly on the sports boards with all the playoffs going on but I might pop in here too once in a while.

Hey Bonnie :wave:, yes it is me, surprise surprise. :eek: :lol:

Back in the day I was really in love with Ann Romano. Today when I watch repeats of episodes from the early seasons she still has a similar effect on me. She was very cute with the longer hairstyle.

I'm posting these days mostly on the sports boards with all the playoffs going on but I might pop in here too once in a while.


Cool!!!! You are always welcome!!! ;) :wave:

Probably the best pic of Bonnie Franklin in my opinion....:lol: :lol:

218038

Probably the best pic of Bonnie Franklin in my opinion....:lol: :lol:

218038


Hmmmmmm!!!! I wonder why????????:crazy:

Could it have SOMETHING to do with the blouse??????:happyface :lol: :D :wave:

Hmmmmmm!!!! I wonder why????????:crazy:

Could it have SOMETHING to do with the blouse??????:happyface :lol: :D :wave:

Why nooooooooooo :lol: :lol: :lol:

Probably the best pic of Bonnie Franklin in my opinion....:lol: :lol:

218038

Don't like the short hairstyle but otherwise nice picture.

Showing some cleavage there, not bad, small boobs but small boobs can be sexy too. ;)

Oh yeah yeah her hair yeah that's it......

OH MY!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :D :wave:

OH MY!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :D :wave:

Yes, Oh My!

218039

In reality, the show wasn't the one Whitney created after the 4th Season - once Max comes in and then Mac's issues and we have gone down this road before in my many posts of where the show went.

The problem is still at the end of the day beyond a new producer,new directors,new writers for season 9 and focus shifting away from Ann, the feeling the show did all it could story-wise (Then how did they manage 20 good episodes the last season?) and Mac's relapse is still Val and Bonnie Carried the show for 4 years (Counting Season 5 when Mac got worse) and they were tired. (Val doing TV Movies between seasons didn't help,either except for CBS's ratings!)

9 is not a bad season, and at the end of the day, Ann proved her independence by season 8, then was ready to marry again, built a career without a college education, and moved into the next chapter of her life.

Perhaps Bonnie should have been offered a spin-off with a fresh direction like Archie Bunker. They got Four seasons with "Archie Bunker's Place" (97 episodes) or on the flip side, Val,(with some of the remaining cast) could have been offered a spin-off. Something that might have enticed Bonnie and/or Val for another year.

Barbara in A Series set around the Travel Agency might have been fun - episodes set around comedic misadventures running tours to different countries (Sets of course, or switch to single camera from studio audience and use the back-lot at Universal - the best Foreign backlot anywhere in Hollywood then or now!)

CBS Missed the boat by not going the spin-off route with Bonnie or Val. Both could have supported their own shows. The network could have even given a year break before launching the spin-offs for development, more TV Movies for Val and a break for Bonnie.

Imagine a world with TWO ODAAT spin-offs...wonder which one would have been more popular - "Ann in England" or "The Travels of Barbara"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BH_vcffXEI


OH MY!!!!:eek: That is VERY FINE!!!! :D (As in Fran Fine) !!!!:lol: :wave:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BH_vcffXEI


OH MY!!!!:eek: That is VERY FINE!!!! :D (As in Fran Fine) !!!!:lol: :wave:

You made click a Little Ceasars commercial??? Ohhh you're bad...:lol: :lol: :lol:

CBS Missed the boat by not going the spin-off route with Bonnie or Val. Both could have supported their own shows. The network could have even given a year break before launching the spin-offs for development, more TV Movies for Val and a break for Bonnie.

In retrospect, CBS technically set up "Kate & Allie" as a replacement for "One Day at a Time"....(The short Season 1 Monday run aired parallel with the Wednesday Season 9 Broadcasts on ODDAT)one with a more classy sense of humor. (Jane and Susan being more experienced than Bonnie was in 1975) Think about it. (and it suffered concept drift last two seasons and never rated as high as ODDAT) Kate & Allie owe a lot to Ann.

While it was already planned to end by this point, the oddest scheduling for the ninth season as a 3 week preemption break, then the airing on "Fifity" (The last Sunday airing) then another 3 week break pending the move-long run on Wednesday. This might explain the slight (well, more than slight) drop with the Wednesday slot. (The lopsided viewing figures - CBS was trying to counter-program and had that MAMA MALONE to burn-off) It was doing well on Sundays, but they revamped the whole night mid-season and then the dreaded Wednesday slot. (Which is ironic as some CBS affiliates ran ODAAT syndication reruns at 7:00pm or 7:30pm!)

CBS planned this way waiting for Wednesday to open up. But I wonder if they did the weekly "One Day at a Time Will Not Be Seen This Week But will return in Three/Two/One weeks..." following the weeks of the airing of "Fifty" or even a card and voice over after the episode saying "One Day at a Time moves to it's new time Slot Wednesday Match 7th at 8pm, 7 Central on most of these CBS Stations...This is CBS)

For those keeping track - 11 preempted weeks in Season 9, with 3 in-season repeats (So 25 episodes aired) followed by 10 summer reruns and 3 in-summer season preemption. (The political conventions)

There are some 2 and 3 week gaps the last year - Mostly sweeps,movie specials and seasonal that also affect the other Sunday Shows, but nothing really unexpected based on the previous seasons.

The oddest is the no-ODAAT episode the 2nd week of the season (Jeffersons rerun aired) That might be the fall-out for Mac's quitting and the need for an extra week to retool the script being shot the week Mac quit/fired again. (The ironic thing is the Jeffersons season opener was a 3 parter and they should have aired all 3 on one night, rather than two week one, and three week two and that would have accounted for the "Gap week" ODAAT needed)

They were shooting in roughly broadcast order, Mac's firing/quitting would have fallen end of August/Early September (4 episodes shot - according to TV.com "The Dentist" was supposed to air Week 2, but it aired Week 4 counting the preemption week. Production started in August) and CBS would have had to scramble to adjust the October season premier weeks and the easiest thing to do was preempt week two of ODAAT rather than hold week one and run all 3 parts of the Jeffersons on one night.(Which in itself was a missed opportunity.)

I personally feel of all the "issues" that swayed Bonnie from signing for more seasons, Mac's issues must have hurt the most - you can get better writers and directors, you can find new directions to make your character central again (Again, "Archie Bunker's Place" is a prime example) The Show became an ensemble piece with two stars by this point - and I don't Blame Bonnie for wanting to end the series.

But it WAS Fixable by a fresh direction - "Ann in England" As I've said before, always remember and never forget, CBS lost not one opportunity, but two - ("Travels with Barbara" being the other...) they did the wrong spin-off. I'd give Bonnie even greater control over the spin-off production wise to keep her happy - writers,directors,producer - issues she had with the final season of ODDAT, and let her do some more co-directing as she did with two episodes in season 9. CBS was too narrow focused on one hit show, they could have split it into two, and made both stars happy. Bonnie and Val both could have supported shows as the sole star.

You know, the odd thing is the girls went into the last season knowing (contractually) it was the final season and CBS still hounded them to sign for more seasons. (I think the MASH Cast had the same issue going into their last season CBS wanted more and the compromise was the TV Movie)

CBS was in panic mode - They just lost MASH...and now going to lose ODAAT! They'll lose Alice and Captain Kangaroo (By now half hour weekly and Keshan wanted out - he was assembling shows mostly from older episodes with some new material by then) and The Jeffersons (By Choice) within the next year.

The definitive answer to this threads question, ODAAT jumped the shark anytime from Season 5 on that Max WASN'T in the ep.!!!! ;) :(

Season 6 with NO Max at all should have been called 'Jaws" !!! HaHa get it? ;) Jaws / Shark (Jumping the shark) !!!!:crazy: :lol: :D

Season 6 sucks. I don't care for it at all or the new additions.

Season 6 sucks. I don't care for it at all or the new additions.

Disagree :wave:

218061

218062

^^^^^^^^^:crazy: :crazy:

218084

In truth a show really only jumps the shark when the network pulls the plug.

ODAAT left on it's own accord, so did MTM, Both Bob Newhart Shows,MASH, Alice,Captain Kangaroo to name a few. All those shows could have gone a season or two (And CBS wanted them all to continue!) But they knew - creative and/or talent it was time to leave.

In truth a show really only jumps the shark when the network pulls the plug.

ODAAT left on it's own accord, so did MTM, Both Bob Newhart Shows,MASH, Alice,Captain Kangaroo to name a few. All those shows could have gone a season or two (And CBS wanted them all to continue!) But they knew - creative and/or talent it was time to leave.

All shows, no matter how good the writing and producing talent is, have only a certain amount of stories to tell. Once those stories are told, the creative staff either rehashes old plots and character bits or comes up with storylines that don't suit the characters or the show's situation.

Some shows have four or five years worth of those stories -- others have seven or eight. But once that creative well is exhausted, it's time to move on.

It's one thing when a show is cancelled (or voluntarily goes off the air) in its prime or before its prime, but when a long running show runs out of gas, it faces the dilemma of getting out while the getting is good vs a network that's offering $$$ to keep the show going.

For the actors and producers, it has to be tempting -- more money and the prospect of another year or two of gainful employment in a business where you don't know where your next job is coming from. But in the case of ODAAT, I think they made the right decision. The show had evolved and changed and there was nowhere to go creatively any more.

All shows, no matter how good the writing and producing talent is, have only a certain amount of stories to tell. Once those stories are told, the creative staff either rehashes old plots and character bits or comes up with storylines that don't suit the characters or the show's situation.

Some shows have four or five years worth of those stories -- others have seven or eight. But once that creative well is exhausted, it's time to move on.

It's one thing when a show is cancelled (or voluntarily goes off the air) in its prime or before its prime, but when a long running show runs out of gas, it faces the dilemma of getting out while the getting is good vs a network that's offering $$$ to keep the show going.

For the actors and producers, it has to be tempting -- more money and the prospect of another year or two of gainful employment in a business where you don't know where your next job is coming from. But in the case of ODAAT, I think they made the right decision. The show had evolved and changed and there was nowhere to go creatively any more.


Very good. Well said. Well put. Very true.

But in the case of ODAAT, I think they made the right decision. The show had evolved and changed and there was nowhere to go creatively any more.

As I've suggested elsewhere, if Bonnie and/or Val were offered spin-offs with creative control (Including choice of production team) and fresh direction - like with "Archie Bunker's Place", they might have gone in that direction. The Characters still had life, they just needed new and fresh directions.

Very good. Well said. Well put. Very true.

Thanks.

As someone who watched a lot of sitcoms growing up, I got to see some shows that went past their creative expiration date and it can be hard to watch.

As much as we don't want to see our favorite shows end, it's better to remember them for their great runs rather than their steep decline.

Any show with growing children has to change. I remember liking the show but the reason I stuck with it was Valerie. As far as I'm concerned I lost interest in the show when Valerie was married and cut her hair. As far as being a quality show, I think they did the best they could with the Mackenzie Philips situation, both script wise and personnel wise. They fired her to try to save her life and they made her a rebel on the show because it made sense. When they thought they needed Glen Scarpelli, they should have folded up the tent.

Any show with growing children has to change. I remember liking the show but the reason I stuck with it was Valerie. As far as I'm concerned I lost interest in the show when Valerie was married and cut her hair. As far as being a quality show, I think they did the best they could with the Mackenzie Philips situation, both script wise and personnel wise. They fired her to try to save her life and they made her a rebel on the show because it made sense. When they thought they needed Glen Scarpelli, they should have folded up the tent.

I've said it before, Mac killed the show, it just took 4 seasons and two firings to do so, more or less.

Valerie in her first book clearly states there was talk of spinning off the girls into their own show when Mac came back, but the talk eventually died down - clearly the network was worried about what eventually happened - Mac relapsed. You can't tell me the sharing the house idea was not part of a possible spin-off concept.

Bud Wiser, good bless him was producer during the 4 tough years - Seasons 5-8 and kept the show in the top 10/20. (For the record, the show wasn't syndicated till season 8 was on the air as CBS obtained the daytime run rights for several years)

Val and Bonnie's reason for walking away have been talked about to death, but truth is, nothing was stopping CBS from giving both of them spin-offs with producers,writers and directors they wanted to work with. "Archie Bunker's Place" gave the characters of Archie, Barney and Stephanie 4 additional years in addition to some good new supporting characters.

According to the old jump the shark site, the biggest knock on ODAAT was that it was too deep and dramatic. With that being said however, one can argue that the writing quality in the first few seasons was much better than Alice or Three's Company. Eventually though, the show got bogged down with too many bland or annoying characters (i.e. Alex, Max, Mark, Sam, and Katherine). Also, Max and Julie for the most part, had zero chemistry and were in and out (due of course, to Mackenzie Phillips' real life "issues").

The show never jumped. I actually prefer the later years.