Left the show?

I watched it all the way through although I prefered Jolene to Belle.

Originally posted by Sitcom Analyzer
Left the show?



I stop watching the show all the time when Jolene came on the show. Jolene was ok but she was not funny like Flo or Belle.

I MISS THIS SHOW! :(

Polly Holliday as Flo was an ESSENTIAL character to the cast of ALICE. Whether Linda Lavin liked it or not, the cast was an ensemble and each one needed the other to bounce off of. When Flo was taken out of the equation, it was never the same. They would have been better off doing what Andy Griffith did when Barney left the show, just expand the other character's roles on the show.
"We tried replacing Don Knotts with another Deputy played by Jack Burns and it just didn't work. We were giving him Barney Fife material and it was awkward and it just didn't work. Once we realized that Barney was irreplaceable and no one else could play that role as he had, then the show went on as it should have . . ."(Andy Griffith in an Interview on Don Knotts leaving the show in 1965).

Originally posted by Jefffalan
Polly Holliday as Flo was an ESSENTIAL character to the cast of ALICE. Whether Linda Lavin liked it or not, the cast was an ensemble and each one needed the other to bounce off of. When Flo was taken out of the equation, it was never the same. They would have been better off doing what Andy Griffith did when Barney left the show, just expand the other character's roles on the show.
"We tried replacing Don Knotts with another Deputy played by Jack Burns and it just didn't work. We were giving him Barney Fife material and it was awkward and it just didn't work. Once we realized that Barney was irreplaceable and no one else could play that role as he had, then the show went on as it should have . . ."(Andy Griffith in an Interview on Don Knotts leaving the show in 1965).

Unfortunately Linda Lavin's ego killed what could had gone down as a classic sitcom for its time. After a shaky 1st season the show took off during the second season. The Flo years was the best on Alice. Polly Holliday mastered that character down. Flo was more of a supporting character not a leading character. The only reason why she was given her own show because Linda was not happy with the fact that Flo was getting all the laughs and accelades for her contributions to the show. If you watch the episodes during Polly's final season on the show, 79-80, you can sense the tension between those two especially from Linda. After Flo left the show still could had been good with Belle but Linda Lavin, again, was threatened by Diane Ladd. Ms. Ladd picked up where Polly Holliday left off and the energy of the show was still going strong.

After Diane Ladd left or forced off because Linda Lavin's ego the show was slowly going downhill. Jolene brought nothing to the show and it got steadily worse. What lost interest for me more was the show overstayed its welcome. Seasons 8 and 9 were bad years for the show. Too bad because it was a good show and had the potential of being a classic series for its time.

Originally posted by mstewart
Unfortunately Linda Lavin's ego killed what could had gone down as a classic sitcom for its time. After a shaky 1st season the show took off during the second season. The Flo years was the best on Alice. Polly Holliday mastered that character down. Flo was more of a supporting character not a leading character. The only reason why she was given her own show because Linda was not happy with the fact that Flo was getting all the laughs and accelades for her contributions to the show. If you watch the episodes during Polly's final season on the show, 79-80, you can sense the tension between those two especially from Linda. After Flo left the show still could had been good with Belle but Linda Lavin, again, was threatened by Diane Ladd. Ms. Ladd picked up where Polly Holliday left off and the energy of the show was still going strong.

After Diane Ladd left or forced off because Linda Lavin's ego the show was slowly going downhill. Jolene brought nothing to the show and it got steadily worse. What lost interest for me more was the show overstayed its welcome. Seasons 8 and 9 were bad years for the show. Too bad because it was a good show and had the potential of being a classic series for its time.


Can you explain what you mean when you said you could sense the tension between Lavin and Holiday during the 1979-80 season? How were you able to tell just from watching a episode of Alice?

Originally posted by TVShow Analyzer
Can you explain what you mean when you said you could sense the tension between Lavin and Holiday during the 1979-80 season? How were you able to tell just from watching a episode of Alice?

If you look at the interaction between Linda Lavin and Polly Holliday during Polly's final season on the show it did not have the same energy as it did in the early seasons. Watch the episode where Telly Savalas guest starred and you can sense the friction by the way Linda looks at Polly when they are in a scene together. The bottom line Linda Lavin ego was bruised because Flo got all the laughs.

This is a show that I watched more bacause of time slot than because of a genuine liking for the series itself. In hindsight it is amazing that it ran 9 seasons. I watched it through the season that Vera married that very nerdy character (was this the 7th season?)It came on after the Jeffersons and when I got bored with one series I stopped watching the other. I remember liking Belle better than Flo and wondering why Belle left. Flo had her moments as did Mel; to me Linda Lavin was better in her performance in the first few seasons than later, something about her performance was off kilter by the time Flo left, and I never liked Jolene at all.

Originally posted by Jefffalan
Polly Holliday as Flo was an ESSENTIAL character to the cast of ALICE. Whether Linda Lavin liked it or not, the cast was an ensemble and each one needed the other to bounce off of. When Flo was taken out of the equation, it was never the same. They would have been better off doing what Andy Griffith did when Barney left the show, just expand the other character's roles on the show.
"We tried replacing Don Knotts with another Deputy played by Jack Burns and it just didn't work. We were giving him Barney Fife material and it was awkward and it just didn't work. Once we realized that Barney was irreplaceable and no one else could play that role as he had, then the show went on as it should have . . ."(Andy Griffith in an Interview on Don Knotts leaving the show in 1965).

THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW sucked after Don Knotts left. It was never funny again. Just boring. Perhaps what they needed to do on ALICE was bring in a very different type of character, like they did on CHEERS by bringing in Kirstie Alley to replace Shelley Long. They let that show take a fresh new direction, with a totally different kind of character (so people wouldn't be comparing Rebecca in their minds to Diane and then be disappointed).. Such a change also allowed the writers to expand their storyline.

Originally posted by MOMMYSBOY
I stop watching the show all the time when Jolene came on the show. Jolene was ok but she was not funny like Flo or Belle.

I MISS THIS SHOW! :(

Flo was great, Belle was okay, Jolene was HORRIBLE(!!!).

Originally posted by mstewart
If you look at the interaction between Linda Lavin and Polly Holliday during Polly's final season on the show it did not have the same energy as it did in the early seasons. Watch the episode where Telly Savalas guest starred and you can sense the friction by the way Linda looks at Polly when they are in a scene together. The bottom line Linda Lavin ego was bruised because Flo got all the laughs. Linda Lavin was the straight woman in the show. I always enjoyed the other characters more than her.

Originally posted by jamesanthony
This is a show that I watched more bacause of time slot than because of a genuine liking for the series itself. In hindsight it is amazing that it ran 9 seasons.

You hit on an interesting point. In 1981 or 1982, CBS moved the show from it's Sunday night time slot to another night and the show sank to the bottom of the ratings. It was about to get cancelled, then CBS moved it back to Sunday night and it bounced back to the top 10 or 20 in the ratings. It was all about time slot at that point (post Flo and post Belle) because it just wasn't funny anymore.

It would have been great if they had done like Cheers and MASH and had the next waitress after Flo to be completely different, like the previous post stated. Maybe they could have had a snobby woman who thought she was so much better than Alice and Vera(but of course had a softer side). Might have been interesting . . .

Originally posted by Jefffalan
It would have been great if they had done like Cheers and MASH and had the next waitress after Flo to be completely different, like the previous post stated. Maybe they could have had a snobby woman who thought she was so much better than Alice and Vera(but of course had a softer side). Might have been interesting . . .

I like that idea about having a snobby woman as the new waitress, always trying to put Alice in her lowly place. Imagine where they could have gone with that. It sounds funny just thinking about it.

Yeah, sort of a female Charles Winchester or something. That would have made people get over Flo(even though she would still have been missed!!!)

To me, though, Flo leaving Alice was like Barney leaving Mayberry. The show was never the same again . . .

Looking back, I think they really needed someone who contradicted and CONTRASTED Linda Lavin's personality. That was what was SORELY missing with Jolene(81-85). Just My Opinion!!!

Originally posted by Jefffalan
Yeah, sort of a female Charles Winchester or something. That would have made people get over Flo(even though she would still have been missed!!!)

To me, though, Flo leaving Alice was like Barney leaving Mayberry. The show was never the same again . . .


And all because of the tension between her and Linda Lavin is why Flo left.

Originally posted by TVShow Analyzer
And all because of the tension between her and Linda Lavin is why Flo left.

I believe if wasn't for the friction between Polly Holliday and Linda Lavin she would had came back to Alice when Flo failed. Alice was never the same after Polly Holliday left the show.

Originally posted by JaneTVFan
You hit on an interesting point. In 1981 or 1982, CBS moved the show from it's Sunday night time slot to another night and the show sank to the bottom of the ratings. It was about to get cancelled, then CBS moved it back to Sunday night and it bounced back to the top 10 or 20 in the ratings. It was all about time slot at that point (post Flo and post Belle) because it just wasn't funny anymore.

In fall 1982 Alice was moved to Wednesdays against The Facts Of Life which for the first time in TV history that brother/sister were up against each other in the same time slot. We're talking Nancy McKeon, Jo on the Facts of Life, and Philp McKeon, Tommy on Alice. That particular season Facts was hitting its stride and Alice was on a downward slide. To me that season the plug should had been pulled the downward slide got worse even though it got moved back to its old time slot. Something was missing on Alice from season 7 to the end of the series. Linda Lavin's performance on the show was not as good as the early seasons.

Originally posted by mstewart
In fall 1982 Alice was moved to Wednesdays against The Facts Of Life which for the first time in TV history that brother/sister were up against each other in the same time slot. We're talking Nancy McKeon, Jo on the Facts of Life, and Philp McKeon, Tommy on Alice. That particular season Facts was hitting its stride and Alice was on a downward slide. To me that season the plug should had been pulled the downward slide got worse even though it got moved back to its old time slot. Something was missing on Alice from season 7 to the end of the series. Linda Lavin's performance on the show was not as good as the early seasons.


Yeah thAt maybe true because the best era of FOL was 81-84

After Flo left, the show just got louder and sillier, though still kind of funny. Belle had a strong start, but was eventually pushed into a corner, causing Diane to leave the show out of frustration. Remember the one when Mel was robbed by the old lady? Mel, Alice, and Vera had the big scene when they took on the robber, while Belle was off in the ladies room. I think that was the last show before they wrote her out. I also noticed that Alice took to wearing long pants when she had to stand next to Belle - she must have been insecure about her legs.

Originally posted by 71dude
After Flo left, the show just got louder and sillier, though still kind of funny. Belle had a strong start, but was eventually pushed into a corner, causing Diane to leave the show out of frustration. Remember the one when Mel was robbed by the old lady? Mel, Alice, and Vera had the big scene when they took on the robber, while Belle was off in the ladies room. I think that was the last show before they wrote her out. I also noticed that Alice took to wearing long pants when she had to stand next to Belle - she must have been insecure about her legs.

After Belle left when Jolene came along that's when it got louder and sillier. The storylines got lamer and more guest stars was used to liven up a dying show. You can see the show was on its way out in season 7. Season 5 was still very entertaining and most of season 6. After season 5 Linda Lavin's performance was not quite the same.

Flo leaving Alice was like Vinnie leaving Welcome Back Kotter and Richie and Ralph leaving Happy Days. Downhill after that. I watched off and on after Flo left but my love for the show was dead.

I agree with what someone said about Alice and Flo in that final season. Linda Lavin did not look happy and it showed in the character and in their chemistry together. Too bad she could not keep her ego in check. She ruined a good thing. What if Ron Howard had taken the same attitude with Henry Winkler and the Fonz character. Would have killed the show.

just a suggestion: could it be that linda lavin and polly holliday were having trouble due to TWO oversized egos?
there seems to be a lot of published evidence of trouble between them coming from polly. but has linda said anything?
and what about the fact that aside from diane ladd, the rest of the cast stayed for 9 years?
also, why was vic tayback the only one to visit FLO?
that linda lavin has an ego that can get out of control is not unusual-it's the same for all of us, in or out of showbiz
but do we really know that she and she alone was so terrible?