I've just watched "The Naked Truth" episode for the first time, and enjoyed it (although it WAS kind of depressing to see the falling-out of the Joe-Helen relationship).

That final scene with Helen crashing her jeep through Joe's office was quite interesting...I suspect that they didn't film that crash before a studio audience, but rather added canned laughter later.

Many times "studio audience" sitcoms would film particular scenes WITHOUT an audience present due to the scene being potentially dangerous to onlookers...and when that jeep hit the office, it was a real MESS! The producers probably didn't want an audience member accidentally hit with a piece of flying debris.

I suspect this because the audience reaction to the crash was just too "laid back" to be genuine. On other shows when similar things like that happen (like Lucy's car accidentally rolling through her living room wall on "The Lucy Show"), and a studio audience IS present (which it was on Lucy's show), the audience's reaction is MUCH more wild...and they usually break out into long, spontaneous applause for such a stunt while the dust settles....and we didn't hear any of that in this episode.

But this WAS a good episode...and for what it's worth, Helen was not alone...Gail's sweet, "let's all be friends and civilized about this" attitude turned MY stomach too!

Yep, the Naked Truth is another really good episode....it really was a perfect turn with the way season 2 ended. Once again, I must tip my hat to the writers because they came up with a perfect way to handle the Helen departure to NY.

Getting back in my "analysis mode" I'm really glad the sentiment around here is that Joe did nothing wrong. I mean he tries to be supportive and not stand in Helen's way of pursuing her dreams as a Cellist...then when that falls through he pleads with her to not go and tells her he loves her.....and she responds with a "thanks, I love you to", and hops on a plane and leaves. THEN she doesn't tell the guy where she is and doesn't pick up a phone for 10 months! What was he supposed to do or think? Any guy in their right mind would think she doesn't care about them and eventually move on.

The only thing Joe could have done differently is tell Helen maybe about Gail during the plane ride back to Nantucket. If he'd told Helen in the Bar about Gail her stubborn pride would have kicked in and she would have acted like she would tough it out in NY for a while longer.

But I loved the entire scene in Joe's office when he explained why he had moved on with Gail. And once again Crystal gave a great performance....I loved her "no life" speech.

Originally posted by losthighway

But I loved the entire scene in Joe's office when he explained why he had moved on with Gail. And once again Crystal gave a great performance....I loved her "no life" speech.

Yes, Joe said (about Gail to Helen): "She's NICE....she doesn't HIT!".

I know that that's an excellent reason for being in a relationship with someone, but sometimes I get the feeling that in a sick way, Joe LIKED being pushed around by Helen!

(Of course, after their wedding the "passive/agressive" side of Joe came out...he wouldn't outwardly argue with Helen about something, but rather act like he was going along with her...and then turn around and do just what he wanted! Remember how he went to the architect of their new soon-to-be-built home and blew off her walk-in closet so he could have room for his big-screen TV? Joe made us real-life husbands PROUD....Just KIDDING, ladies!)

This is another great episode. I don't blame Joe for moving on after Helen left him. At least they didn't do that stupid "We were on a break!" thing that Friends did with Ross and Rachel.

Helen driving through Joe's office has me in hysterics every time. :lol: They really don't make sitcoms like they used to.

Originally posted by losthighway

Getting back in my "analysis mode" I'm really glad the sentiment around here is that Joe did nothing wrong. I mean he tries to be supportive and not stand in Helen's way of pursuing her dreams as a Cellist...then when that falls through he pleads with her to not go and tells her he loves her.....and she responds with a "thanks, I love you to", and hops on a plane and leaves. THEN she doesn't tell the guy where she is and doesn't pick up a phone for 10 months! What was he supposed to do or think? Any guy in their right mind would think she doesn't care about them and eventually move on.



This is why it is SO important that NICK run ALL of the "Wings" episodes in their proper chronological order!

The first time NICK ran the "Wings" cycle, they skipped "Duet For Cello and Plane", "The Naked Truth" and "Is That A Subpoena in Your Pocket?", so all this time I kept thinking "Poor, poor Helen....How could that rat Joe DO that to that poor girl?"....but NOW I have the WHOLE story, and I can see why Joe moved on to someone else!

Some sitcoms can get away with having their episodes skipped and mixed up, but not "Wings"!

yeah, that was the first time I've seen this episode too. I liked it a lot.
I liked the scene between Joe and Helen, in Joe's office.
and oh, that was funny when Joe opened the blinds on the window, and everyone was smashed up against it on the other side, trying to hear what was going on. hahaha!
and yeah, I agree with you pilotguy- Gail's "let's be civilized about this" attitude to Helen when they were in Joe's office made me nauseous too. lol!

and yes, Helen driving her Jeep through Joe's office at the end was great. hehehe.

~Krista
:cow:

Originally posted by pilotguy
This is why it is SO important that NICK run ALL of the "Wings" episodes in their proper chronological order!

The first time NICK ran the "Wings" cycle, they skipped "Duet For Cello and Plane", "The Naked Truth" and "Is That A Subpoena in Your Pocket?", so all this time I kept thinking "Poor, poor Helen....How could that rat Joe DO that to that poor girl?"....but NOW I have the WHOLE story, and I can see why Joe moved on to someone else!

Some sitcoms can get away with having their episodes skipped and mixed up, but not "Wings"!

didn't they play "Is That A Subpoena In Your Pocket" the last time? That's the one where Joe tries to get Helen to pay for the insurance deductible for his office, right? and she keeps saying that she won't pay, and finally Joe flips out and yells, "I WANT MY MONEY AND I WANT IT NOW!!!" and without even flinching, Helen just looks at him and says "sit on it and twirl" and walks away. hahahaha I love that part. that make me laugh... but yeah, I think that was the first episode of season 3 that they played last time.... unless I'm thinking of a different episode..

Originally posted by Krista2882
didn't they play "Is That A Subpoena In Your Pocket" the last time? That's the one where Joe tries to get Helen to pay for the insurance deductible for his office, right? and she keeps saying that she won't pay, and finally Joe flips out and yells, "I WANT MY MONEY AND I WANT IT NOW!!!" and without even flinching, Helen just looks at him and says "sit on it and twirl" and walks away. hahahaha I love that part. that make me laugh... but yeah, I think that was the first episode of season 3 that they played last time.... unless I'm thinking of a different episode..

They may have played it during the marathon (which I didn't catch all of). I know that the "Helen leaves for NYC" episodes were supposed to be aired, but that's just when NICK changed from the "two episodes at 11 PM" time slot to the "one episode at 1 AM" time slot". I remember it very well because I was on vacation in Florida at the time (over Easter break) and watched these episodes in my hotel room...with the sound turned down low because my young kids were in the same room sleeping.

hmmmmmmmm... i don't know...
o, i know! I'll go check my tapes! I didn't start taping until season 3 when they moved it to the 1 AM slot...
hold on a sec...
just checked- it's on my tape.
but hey, it doesn't really matter anyway!
Sorry if I'm being a pain in the ass. :D i don't mean to be. hehe

Originally posted by Krista2882
hmmmmmmmm... i don't know...
o, i know! I'll go check my tapes! I didn't start taping until season 3 when they moved it to the 1 AM slot...
hold on a sec...
just checked- it's on my tape.
but hey, it doesn't really matter anyway!
Sorry if I'm being a pain in the ass. :D i don't mean to be. hehe


Krista, you're turning into a female Joe Hackett, you know that, don't you? :lol:

Let me just say that a TERRIBLE wrong is FINALLY being taken care of by Nick. I totally agree with Pilotguy in that it's absurd to start running a series in sequential order, and then skip key episodes. If I listed my top 20 episodes "Duet for Cello and Plane" and "The Naked Truth" wold make it, but those episodes were so key in the development of the Helen and Joe storyline that it would confuse you if you didn't see them.

I don't care what the rationale was....I'm still steamed Nick skipped "Final Approch" the series finale.....I haven't seen that since 1997....and as Joe says in the episode coming up tonight, "I want it and I want it now!":D

Originally posted by pilotguy
Krista, you're turning into a female Joe Hackett, you know that, don't you? :lol:

hahahaha! woohoo!
I'll take that as a complement... :D

Originally posted by pilotguy
That final scene with Helen crashing her jeep through Joe's office was quite interesting...I suspect that they didn't film that crash before a studio audience, but rather added canned laughter later.

Many times "studio audience" sitcoms would film particular scenes WITHOUT an audience present due to the scene being potentially dangerous to onlookers...and when that jeep hit the office, it was a real MESS! The producers probably didn't want an audience member accidentally hit with a piece of flying debris.

I suspect this because the audience reaction to the crash was just too "laid back" to be genuine. On other shows when similar things like that happen (like Lucy's car accidentally rolling through her living room wall on "The Lucy Show"), and a studio audience IS present (which it was on Lucy's show), the audience's reaction is MUCH more wild...and they usually break out into long, spontaneous applause for such a stunt while the dust settles....and we didn't hear any of that in this episode.




Now that I've seen the SECOND jeep-office crash in the "Subpoeana" episode, I tend to think that they used a stunt double for the actual crash....

When the jeep plows through the office wall, you can't really see inside the jeep...the windows are dark. Then after the crash, the scene cuts to a close-up of Helen sticking her head out of the jeep window.

I certainly don't blame Crystal or the "Wings" staff if they DID use a stunt double for that crash....that crash and sudden stop could have been very dangerous for Crystal (although I don't know why I should worry...the woman drives racecars in real life!).

Oh well, whether a double was used or not, those crashes are VERY funny to watch!

Actually, surprisingly enough, Crystal did drive the Jeep in those crash scenes. At least she said she did and my Crystal would never lie.:D

I posted a question and answer session from Crystal a few months back and this was one of the questions:

Q: What if any is your favorite episode of "Wings"? My
personal favorite was the episode where Helen drives her Jeep through Joe's office, not once, but twice.

Crystal: Actually, three times! And, guess who did the stunt work? Oh yeah ... ME! What a blast! What a way to get out your frustrations! Probably my favorite ... I think some of the funniest
moments really in TV for the cast was the show where I had my wisdom teeth pulled. I was in bed the whole show, so that was fabulous! But, it seemed like every character came alive during that episode.

*Even though she said "three" I'm sure she was only referring to the 2, since Tim did it the 3rd time.

Originally posted by losthighway
Actually, surprisingly enough, Crystal did drive the Jeep in those crash scenes. At least she said she did and my Crystal would never lie.:D

I posted a question and answer session from Crystal a few months back and this was one of the questions:

Q: What if any is your favorite episode of "Wings"? My
personal favorite was the episode where Helen drives her Jeep through Joe's office, not once, but twice.

Crystal: Actually, three times! And, guess who did the stunt work? Oh yeah ... ME! What a blast! What a way to get out your frustrations! Probably my favorite ... I think some of the funniest
moments really in TV for the cast was the show where I had my wisdom teeth pulled. I was in bed the whole show, so that was fabulous! But, it seemed like every character came alive during that episode.

*Even though she said "three" I'm sure she was only referring to the 2, since Tim did it the 3rd time.


Hmmm...When I stop to think about it, I can't imagine Daredevil Crystal NOT doing the actual crashes!

I wonder if the filming went something like this:

DIRECTOR: "OK Crystal, we're going to film the crash now....Get out of the jeep so the stunt double can get in there."

CRYSTAL: "The hell I AM! What kind of a wimp do you take me for, anyway? I've driven racecars around wet tracks...Now you don't think that I can handle driving a little jeep through a prop wall?
Get out of my way, boys...I'M COMIN' THROUGH!!!!"

Yup, I imagine that it could have happened like that!

Originally posted by pilotguy
Hmmm...When I stop to think about it, I can't imagine Daredevil Crystal NOT doing the actual crashes!

I wonder if the filming went something like this:

DIRECTOR: "OK Crystal, we're going to film the crash now....Get out of the jeep so the stunt double can get in there."

CRYSTAL: "The hell I AM! What kind of a wimp do you take me for, anyway? I've driven racecars around wet tracks...Now you don't think that I can handle driving a little jeep through a prop wall?
Get out of my way, boys...I'M COMIN' THROUGH!!!!"

Yup, I imagine that it could have happened like that!

:lol: Yes, I think you are right! From the interviews I have seen and read with Crystal she is a little spitfire. (we've mentioned how the writers of Wings tried to write to the strengths of each actors personality...well, I think they definitely did with Crystal) Plus as you mentioned she's raced cars and Jet Skis so I don't think she'd have any problem crashing a jeep into some plywood.:D

I want to crash a jeep through some plywood.. that could be fun....

Good points, BUT why couldn't Joe pick up a phone and call Helen, He didn't have her number? There are ways he could have gotten it, if he wanted to work it out, and loved her like he said, he would have moved Heaven and Earth to track her down. I know there's such a thing as pride, so I blame both Joe and Helen. Helen gave up too easily on their relationship IMO so did Joe :)

Oh, taking the "female" perspecitve are ya? ;) Just kidding.....how about this, it's 60/40 Helen's fault....after all, Joe's home number and work number never changed, yet his phone didn't ring for 10 months! Poor, poor Joe, I still feel for the guy.:D

Losthighway has mentioned a few times about Helen not being in touch with Joe for 10 months. Well, Helen did say in the episode that if she heard Joe's voice, she'd probably come running back to the island. I can relate because when my boyfriend & I broke up, we didn't talk for 8 months(we're talking now), so this episode hits close to my heart. I felt the same way Helen did. Also, when she tells Joe,"I miss talking to you, Joe", that line still gets to me, because that was the main thing I missed about my boyfriend. Of course, when I was mad at him, I didn't crash into his office!!! I know it's only a show, but I can see how Helen feels. Plus she was too proud to admit to anybody that things weren't working out in NY. Remember though, she did send a birthday card to Fay.

It had been a while since I'd seen this episode and I thought the funny parts were when Brian found out that Joe had gone to everybody else before him for advice on Helen.

Also, when Helen told everybody that she didn't want to hear anything more about New York, and Lowell asks "did you see any good shows?" Oh, good ole Lowell.

OK, here is my perspective (as I overanalyze a TV show). LOL!

Just like Phoebe7165 alluded to relating to Helen, I can also relate to the circumstances Joe faced. I had a girlfriend that worked in the Travel and tourism business and she became very interested in Scuba diving and started to really develop a passion for it. She decided she was going to become a Scuba instructor and was going to enroll in a program that would have taken about 2 years to complete. The program was held in the Bahamas or some island location and my girlfriend asked me to move to the island with her for 2 years. I could not leave my home and situation for two years, but just like Joe, I was in a position where I didn’t want her to go, but I was not going to stand in her way of pursuing a dream. So I totally related to the dilemma Joe faced.

In my mind, Helen made an obvious choice to leave Joe, when she really didn’t have to. Had she gotten a job with her Cello that would have changed the dynamics of the situation. But she didn’t get the job. What she could have done is kept practicing and kept auditioning until a real job came along, just like the one she almost landed, and then she and Joe could have dealt with it. And by the time that happened perhaps their relationship would have been more defined?

But, if you leave, as Helen did, for nothing but a dream and a possibility, then from Joe’s perspective, it’s hard to believe she cared much for him. Actions sometimes speak louder then words. Joe did have a business he was responsible for that he had worked very hard to build up and people depended on him to keep that business running, so it was difficult for him to leave. It was not difficult at that point for Helen to stay.

From Joe’s perspective, call it pride I guess, but it would be very difficult to call Helen after she made that decision, because it would be really hard for him to believe she really cared and wanted him to call. She left with nothing for him to really cling to and believe in that she truly cared. It was up to Helen to at least call one time and tell Joe this is where I am, this is my phone number, I would love for you to visit, or call me, or something? It wasn’t up to Joe to have to be a detective to track her down.

I do find topics like this fascinating because it’s interesting to see how women tend to relate to the emotions and feelings that Helen experiences, while guys (at least me) see it from Joe’s point of view. Sorry if I got a little wordy there…didn’t mean to beat the topic into the ground, but I couldn’t stop myself.
:D

Oh, what's the difference WHO was right and WHO was wrong? The bottom line is that Joe and Helen got back together and DID end up getting married, fighting like cats and dogs and basically making each others' lives a miserable, flame-licking HELL!

:argue:

(Don't you just LOVE happy endings?) :D

As per tonight's episode "Taming of the Shrew" I see how it was hard for Helen, when she realized part of her problem was not being able to talk to her 'best friend' about her problem. I have hardly any girlfriends, which is sad, but I think there's many girls this way. Girls are just too damn catty. I have mostly 'guy' friends. So I usually confide in them more than girlfriends.

Anne

Originally posted by losthighway
OK, here is my perspective (as I overanalyze a TV show). LOL!


I do find topics like this fascinating because it’s interesting to see how women tend to relate to the emotions and feelings that Helen experiences, while guys (at least me) see it from Joe’s point of view. Sorry if I got a little wordy there…didn’t mean to beat the topic into the ground, but I couldn’t stop myself.
:D

dude, first of all, you can never overanalyze a TV show. hehe.

and secondly, I actually related to Joe's point of view in this situation. lol. I mean come on- Helen leaves when she didn't really have to, and then didn't call him or anything for 10 months. He had no idea where she was, other than that she was in NY. I would have basically considered that relationship over too.

Originally posted by AgtSkye
I have hardly any girlfriends, which is sad, but I think there's many girls this way. Girls are just too damn catty. I have mostly 'guy' friends. So I usually confide in them more than girlfriends.

Anne

hey!! I'm the SAME way!
Well, two of my best friends are girls, but besides them, most of my other friends are guys. I just get along with guys much better than I do with girls, usually.
But it was funny because well, I'm REALLY REALLY shy (you'd probably never know it by talking to me online. lol), and my first year and a half of college, I didn't really have any friends there. and then I started making friends my 4th semester there, and it didn't hit me until a while later that they're ALL guys! Every friend that I've made at school in the past year and a half are all guys. hehe.

But yeah- I thought it was funny that you said that because I'm the same way...

~Krista

Originally posted by Krista2882
dude, first of all, you can never overanalyze a TV show. hehe.

and secondly, I actually related to Joe's point of view in this situation. lol. I mean come on- Helen leaves when she didn't really have to, and then didn't call him or anything for 10 months. He had no idea where she was, other than that she was in NY. I would have basically considered that relationship over too.

:lol: Thanks, I'm glad I didn't overanalyze you into deep boredome!

Just thought of this as well......I had another girllfrend that decided she wanted to move to LA to puruse modeling/ acting and wanted me to move with her......I won't bore you with the details why I didn't go.....but I remember I was just like Joe was with Helen where I supported her and encouraged her in her dream but still told her not to get her hopes up......boy did I pay for that!:lol: :lol: ........I guess that's why I love these episodes because I SO relate to Joe.:D

I agree with Krista, Losthighway, there is absolutely no such thing as overanalyzing a sitcom. We bring these people into our homes every night and love this show so much, that we spend a bit of our personal time talking about them. With all the crap that's going on in the world these days, to be able to take our mind off it all for just a half hour, and then we spend time talking about the previous nights episode to each other, I'm sure I speak for about everybody here when I say, it makes me feel better!! That's why I'm on here. Yes, they are only characters and they do and act what is on their script, but it's great to be able to relate to the characters. I know I've mentioned this a few times, but my sister & I relate alot of real life stuff to Wings. Whenever we're watching Jeopardy, and William Faulkner's name comes up, we both yell "Faulkners!" and so on, and so on. So, so sad.:lol: :lol: