I have another question....did Lucille Ball smoke when she was pregnant because I remember hearing she wasn't allowed to on the show, but what about when she was off the set?

Lucy N E V E R smoked while pregnant, she said that herself many many times. She wanted those kids so bad, she wasn't going to mess around with their future health. It wasn't because the cancer thing was obvious back then, it was just common sense, you wouldn't drink or smoke while pregnant, especially after you've had more than ONE MISCARRIAGE.

Yea I didn't think she did, I was just curious...aww I think Lucille Ball was a really good mom....from stuff I've read and just my personal opinion ;)

Hmmm, I'm not so sure about that Claudsky. I have some photos of her smoking (off the set) while pregnant. :confused:

So you're saying Lucy lies huh? We're through Sher! LOL!

Smoking wasnt associated with poor health back then, so I dont know why she would have abstained from it while pregnant. There was no information that it was harmful and even doctors did cigarette commercials then. It was something that was supposed to releax your nerves, as well as look sophisticated.

If she didnt smoke while she was pregnant, that's great, but I dont know how she would have any information that it would have been dangerous.

I meant just common sense, if you wouldn't drink while pregnant why would you inhale smoke?

Splain, you're thinking about it from a modern perspective. You're talking about a time when asthmatics were prescribed cigarettes to help their lungs, when people with heart conditions were prescribed cigarettes to help lower their pulse rates - pregnant women were often advised to smoke by their doctors! Insane, I know. Nobody thought that sucking scalding hot smoke into your lungs alongside all manner of tasty carcinogens and poisons might be a little bit unhealthy for all in the immediate neighbourhood! :crazy:

Sorry, i've never smoked so i did not know all that, i just remember reading that Lucy said she never did while pregnant, but maybe you're right, she was making those statements AFTER the news came out about ciggies and she wanted to help out the new generation with sound advice.

Originally posted by DetectiveGriffin
Smoking wasnt associated with poor health back then, so I dont know why she would have abstained from it while pregnant. There was no information that it was harmful and even doctors did cigarette commercials then. It was something that was supposed to releax your nerves, as well as look sophisticated.

If she didnt smoke while she was pregnant, that's great, but I dont know how she would have any information that it would have been dangerous.
If that's true, then why did the sponsers ask cbs not to show her smoking on the show while she was pregnant?

Maybe because they KNEW the damage that could be done, but it was still hidden from the public at that point?

Ooh, that is a GOOD answer! Never thought of that.;)

Go rent The Insider with Russell Crowe,you'll find out a lot worse!;)

Do I really want to find out worse, though?:(

Well, it goes on every day, with our food, our governments, our money, our banks, evrything around us, we should be aware, maybe we can make it tougher for them.

I kind of follow the belief of "Ignorance is bliss":lol: or "what you don't know can't hurt you":lol:

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Maybe because they KNEW the damage that could be done, but it was still hidden from the public at that point?

That's a very good point. I swear I remember reading that in the late 50's, I think it was Phillip Morris who was paying extra to keep the adds about how cigarette smoking could be a cause for lung cancer off subways and stuff.

Sadly yes, these things are true. Look at petrol (sorry, gas!) companies forcing green and clean alternatives off the market, stifling new green car designs and the like. And food - you wouldn't believe some of the things you eat! You know how many long term health studies have been made into all those multi-syllable chemicals you read in the ingredients lists? None - at least by the companies who are trying to encourage you to eat the rubbish. Dirk Benedict has always said if it's advertised on TV, don't eat it! And he's got a point. They're making food for profit, not for your health. Seriously scary stuff, some of it.

The States was built on the dairy and beef industries, for example. So many people in high places have interests in those industries, they've been trying to divert public consciousness from the truth for years; namely that their products are the biggest causes of cancer in the States - supposedly even more so than cigarettes and other pollutants. Amazing, huh. Most Westerners eat an average of 2.5 times more protein than is even nearly healthy, but they're not going to tell you that! It's the same with cigarettes, and the sad thing there is that, as we all get more savvy, they're turning to third world markets instead. :(

Yall want me to post a picture of her smoking when I get home from work tonight? Claude, you're like me..........
"you mean Lucy lied?". :eek: Now, we all know that she liked to stretch the truth and make things sound better than they were, right? She's still "my girl" though ;)

Oh sure, short of killing somebody, i would forgive her anything. My favorite lie of hers is that the nose on fire bit wasn't planned, then again, like someone else once said, she told those stories repeatedly for decades, so she would start believing them herself and start thinking they were true. Mickey, Dirk Benedict got cancer right? That may be why he wants to blow the whistle on these people.

To be fair, the main reason Dirk Benedict got cancer was because he grew up in a place where, if you were hungry, you went out and shot yourself some lunch. I think he says in one of his books that the people there had a diet of around 90% meat! :eek: He went kind of nutrition nuts after that though, and he's researched a lot of the dangers of food. Whether you agree with what he says or not, it's interesting stuff.

So you'd forgive Lucy pretty much anything then, huh?! I'll have to see if I can come up with some scenarios. :)

Yall want me to post a picture of her smoking when I get home from work tonight? Thanks OnlyOneLucy. I'd like you to post a pic of her smoking when she was pregnant. I've never seen one.

Originally posted by SPLAIN
I meant just common sense, if you wouldn't drink while pregnant why would you inhale smoke?

I've seen the episode from "All in the Family" when Gloria had her baby, and I was shocked to see her and her husband drinking glasses of wine in a resturant right before she went into labor. And that was in the 1970s. So maybe the "no smoking or drinking while pregnant" rule wasn't widespread even then.

:) Actually they still recommend a glass of wine right before you go into labour; it helps bring it on because you're relaxed! Seriously though, going by what's shown on TV as a good indicator of trends regarding what you should or shouldn't do when pregnant, it's only very recently that I've noticed people avoiding alcohol. In Days Of Our Lives they drink 'sparkling cider', which I assume is non-alcoholic, and I think that was the first time I saw it being made an issue of. You assume it's common sense, but a lot of people don't think that way even now.

It's amazing what they do tell you not to do when pregnant these days though. Not eating peanuts is a current one, in case it makes the baby allergic. :confused:

Originally posted by Mickey
:) Actually they still recommend a glass of wine right before you go into labour; it helps bring it on because you're relaxed!

Wow, you learn something new everyday!

Originally posted by Mickey
In Days Of Our Lives they drink 'sparkling cider', which I assume is non-alcoholic, and I think that was the first time I saw it being made an issue of.

You watch DAYS? I never miss that show! :wave:

Now you see, that's a perfect example of why one should not drink when pregnant. The baby cries like crazy, can't walk and it's eyes are closed and it looks a mess, EXACTLY what happens to me when i drink too much!

Originally posted by Ricardos4Ever
You watch DAYS? I never miss that show!

Not anymore! :( It's no longer screened in the UK. After the massive success over here of the frankly barking mad Sunset Beach (which I loved, I admit), C5 ran DOOL for a while. We had it from Hope locked up in the tower with Stefano up to the massacre at Princess Thing's coronation. About a year I think. Since then I've had to content myself with reading the synopses! I miss it though. Rarely can there have been a more cool character in a soap than dear old John Black! And I hear Stefano may be returning soon?!

And you didn't know that about wine and labour?! There's all kinds of ways to bring it on during the last few days, apparently, jus to add to your education! Hot bath, glass of red wine, and, um... excitement. Of a certain kind. ;) Helps stimulate contractions allegedly, but I think I'm approaching being deleted from this thread now, so I'll shut up. :lol:

Originally posted by Mickey
Not anymore! :( It's no longer screened in the UK. After the massive success over here of the frankly barking mad Sunset Beach (which I loved, I admit), C5 ran DOOL for a while. We had it from Hope locked up in the tower with Stefano up to the massacre at Princess Thing's coronation. About a year I think. Since then I've had to content myself with reading the synopses! I miss it though. Rarely can there have been a more cool character in a soap than dear old John Black! And I hear Stefano may be returning soon?!

No DOOL in the UK?!?! You poor thing! I've watched it for most of my life and couldn't imagine not getting to see it anymore. I agree, John is a great character. And this past Friday, they did say that Stefano was alive, but I'm not sure if they are actually bringing the character back on screen. The actor who played him is currently on another soap opera, and NO other actor could ever step into the role of Stefano. That character was just too uniquely his. So unless by some chance they actually convince the actor to come back (and actually pay him enough, which was why he left in the first place), I'm sure they'll just have his son Tony speaking to him by telephone as they did on Friday.


Ok, we're probably annoying everyone with our soap talk. ;) Lucy lovers, discuss....:wave:

I must admit that I've never seen DOOL. :o But from what you guys are saying, sounds good, maybe I should watch it! ;)

Sorry for going off topic, back to Lucy...

Wow. It's a brave man (or woman) who starts watching DOOL now! :) It's been going since, what is it? 1965? Before it was screened in the UK we had extensive updates and explanations, and it didn't even begin to touch the surface of the John and Stefano thing! If I've got it straight, John is an amnesiac cat-burglar/art thief/womanising priest/secret agent/possible brain surgeon who was brainwashed by the local mad criminal overlord (Stefano). In between getting kidnapped more often than Jennifer in Hart To Hart, he has demon possessions to handle, has children who age ten years over night (literally), and a mad scientist who keeps wanting to reprogam him with the aid of the microchip in his brain. Every time they get bored with his character they invent a new bit of past, pretend that some previous bit was just part of the microchip programming, and send him off in some new direction. He's a strange man. Has a habit of being terribly heroic, but for some reason he first has to dramatically tear his shirt off every time.

Say, is it true they've killed off Doctor Rolfe? :(

Originally posted by Mickey
If I've got it straight, John is an amnesiac cat-burglar/art thief/womanising priest/secret agent/possible brain surgeon who was brainwashed by the local mad criminal overlord (Stefano). In between getting kidnapped more often than Jennifer in Hart To Hart, he has demon possessions to handle, has children who age ten years over night (literally), and a mad scientist who keeps wanting to reprogam him with the aid of the microchip in his brain.

You hit that pretty much on the nose!



Originally posted by Mickey
Say, is it true they've killed off Doctor Rolfe? :(

Yes!!! But he's only the beginning. They've been firing like crazy lately! Abe, Jack and Maggie are all leaving the show (possibly getting killed in this upcoming serial killer storyline), and there may be more to follow. I'm depressed!!

Abe's kinda boring, and I don't know Jack that well, but Maggie?! Her crowning moment for me was when John went mercenary-berserk in her restaurant, and took it and Roman apart! Great stuff. She wasn't too impressed. :)

I'm really sorry about Rolfe though. Great character.

Originally posted by Mickey
Abe's kinda boring, and I don't know Jack that well, but Maggie?! Her crowning moment for me was when John went mercenary-berserk in her restaurant, and took it and Roman apart! Great stuff. She wasn't too impressed. :)

Abe has had a lot more storyline/airtime since you quit watching. I like him better than I did. Maggie's an old favorite, she's been on the show since 1974! Most of her significant storylines occured in the 70s, but it was nice having her around -- if only as a minor supporting character. Too bad that she's been let go. :(

Originally posted by MagsLovesLucy
I must admit that I've never seen DOOL. :o But from what you guys are saying, sounds good, maybe I should watch it! ;)



I LOVE "Days"! I have been watching it since I was a little girl. I hear that Jack is leaving the show :( I must admit that his character is kinda goofy but what's that gonna leave Jennifer to do?

Originally posted by onlyonelucy
I LOVE "Days"! I have been watching it since I was a little girl. I hear that Jack is leaving the show :( I must admit that his character is kinda goofy but what's that gonna leave Jennifer to do?

I'm afraid that they might ax Jennifer, too. But I sure hope not. Hey, maybe they'll bring her ex-hubby Peter Blake back. I think he's still alive. In jail, if I remember correctly. I really liked his character when he was on before. But if I had to choose, I'd keep Jack!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Lucy N E V E R smoked while pregnant. It wasn't because the cancer thing was obvious back then, it was just common sense, you wouldn't drink or smoke while pregnant, especially after you've had more than ONE MISCARRIAGE.

Lucy became nauseous when exposed to smoke during her pregnancy. As for the other comment you made, women smoked and drank during pregnacy quite commonly "back then" because they didn't know about "fetal alcohol syndrome" then. Smoking and drinking were socially acceptable even for pregnant women. My own mother refrained from drinking during her pregnancy with me in the late 50's simply because she didn't think it was a good idea. I am sure other women did likewise. But look at old movies like "Father's Little Dividend" and you'll see Liz Taylor having a drink. Matter of fact, it's considered OKNOW to drink in moderation (that's one glass of wine) in the last trimester of pregnancy. It eases anxiety and takes the edge off early labor pains.

Doctors recommend a glass of wine or two if your baby's late - it helps relax the muscles and bring on labour! Of course there's less chance of it doing damage to the baby at that point, but there's still a chance the thing could be born drunk.

All i meant was that if i were carrying a life inside me, i wouldn't be smoking or drinking in excess, just common sense!

Smoking and drinking were socially acceptable even for pregnant women. It was starting to change in the 50's. Like Spain said, it's just commom sense.

And it must have been hard for Lucy, seing as she started like at 15 or something! And it was frowned upon back then, so unladylike and all! There was this one comment very prevalent here that people would say, is there anything ,more disgusting than a woman with a cigarette dangling from her mouth as she spoke, and i would always answer, it's just as bad for a man doing the same thing, otr worse, a doctor coughing and smoking as he examines you, now that's disgusting!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
All i meant was that if i were carrying a life inside me, i wouldn't be smoking or drinking in excess, just common sense!

I see pregnant women smoking *all the time*. Nothing shocks me anymore. People generally do NOT have common sense, and that's why "Dr Phil" is raking in the cash. And I am sure if you were carrying a life inside you, "YOU'D be surprised" seeing you're a guy and all. :lol:

The minute i wrote those words i just knew i was opening myself up for that one, oh and this one wasn't much better!

Originally posted by onlyonelucy
Hmmm, I'm not so sure about that Claudsky. I have some photos of her smoking (off the set) while pregnant. :confused:

Can you post the images here so we can see them or provide sources for these pictures with the dates they were taken? That way we can assess how far along or not far along she was. I have a quote from Lucy saying "I made everyone ditch their smokes....even Desi." (while she was pregnant) She suffered from extreme nausea during this time. ~~*Viola*~~

She smoked on the show when she was pregnant but before the audience knew she was pregnant, so i guess that "extreme nausea" didn't kick in right away! ;)

Remember that Winchell was the one that knew that she was pregnant before she even realized it. So she smoked all this time without even knowing or dont tell me she quit cold turkey:eek:

Well I am sure she "realized" she was pregnant. She was waiting for confirmation from the Doctor. It was back when they did the "rabbit test" and someone leaked that info to Winchell.

The only episode she smoked in that she knew she was pregnant was Ricky Asks for a Raise, which was done the week she found out. Did she do any Philip Morris ads during this time?

Originally posted by Viola_Fuss
Well I am sure she "realized" she was pregnant. She was waiting for confirmation from the Doctor. It was back when they did the "rabbit test" and someone leaked that info to Winchell.

After having so many miscarriages before ; she may have been a bittersweet feeling thinking that she was but not wanting to get up the hopes in case this one turned out for the worst too.:(

Originally posted by ARealLucyFan
The only episode she smoked in that she knew she was pregnant was Ricky Asks for a Raise, which was done the week she found out. Did she do any Philip Morris ads during this time? I think the Phillip Morris ad on the 9th DVD where they're sitting on the suitcase was done after that episode.

She wasn't showing at all then though, was she. It's conceivable that she didn't know she was pregnant. Besides, it's really not as though it would have been her fault if she did knowingly smoke whilst pregnant. As we've been saying, nobody really acknowledged the risks. We are talking about a time when pregnant women were prescribed cigarettes to help them to relax.

So anyway, on a different note... you guys want Bush back yet? We're getting bored with him. ;) He keeps going on about how nice it is that the British and Americans are united, whilst a hundred yards away 10,000 angry Londoners keep trying to get close enough to throw eggs at him. :) Poor guy. He probably saw Clinton on his various visits, and thought "They love us!" No George. We love Clinton. There's a difference!

Thanks for the update on Bush's visit Mickey, no right wing fanatics to push his propaganda over there? If only Margaret Thatcher was still in power! LOL!

He doesn't need Thatcher to back his policies. That's what he's got Tony for! He's doing okay actually. They haven't let the protestors get close to him! Everybody's just annoyed that he's getting the red carpet treatment when he's so unpopular over here, whereas Clinton didn't get a proper state visit at all and was the most popular president since Kennedy.

Geez, think how embarrassing it would be if Bush got assassinated whilst he's over here. :o And with it being so near to the anniversary and all.

They were afraid to have Clinton stay at the Palace because Charles might make a move on him, and Bill would find an offer of sex so hard to refuse, it would be embarrassing for Mumsy! Hey, what's going on with Charlie's antics and Paul Burrell's book over there? And when does Bush leave? I hear the Queen wouldn't authorize those strict security measures, too spensive, i suppose? Remember now, spensive brought it back on topic!

Well... I have no interest in Paul Burrell or any of his scurrilous lies and money making schemes. Or those of any other ex-Palace servant looking to make it rich. So much for employee loyalty! So I can't answer that question! :lol:

I have no idea when Bush leaves. Not soon enough! Spensive or otherwise, the security is a bit daft. I mean, what's wrong with letting the guy see the protestors?! He must know that they're there!

:crazy:

No, you see right wing fanatics never see things the way they really are, sorta like when he authorized those planes leaving the US with Bin Laden's family and friends and other Saudis right after Sept 11th, and the source is Time Magazine. If we only knew half of what goes on, decades from now we will.

Read any Michael Moore, Splain? His current book, which I think is called Dude Where's My Country?, or something along those lines, sounds like it could have been written by you! :)

Sometimes I think I'm being unfair, hating Bush so much... then I remember that he's Bush, and everything becomes so clear... :lol: Why can't we just have Josiah Bartlett from The West Wing as the president? I mean, okay so he doesn't exist. But that doesn't have to be that much of an obstacle does it?!

Well, at least Tony likes him. Isn't he going there today? Or maybe he's already there. I can't remember. :)

Yeah, don't remind me, i USED to like Tony Blair! And Michael Moore is a hero to me, not afraid to say what he thinks, and there's so few people like that these days when a career can be ended by a vindictive President or a former First Lady can get a miniseries cancelled. Have people forgotten that the greatest country in the world was founded on free speech?

a career can be ended by a vindictive President or a former First Lady can get a miniseries cancelled. Okay, what did I miss?

Nancy Reagan called the CBS President and got the mini series that was supposed to air last week cancelled. You know it stars James Brolin and he's married to La Streisand, so . . . it did not portray her or her hubby in a favorable light, geez, wonder why?

Huh, didn't hear a word about it. I wouldn't watch a bio of Reagan anyway.

Well fair enough if it was lies, or slander. Isn't it also an election year? Or is that just wishful thinking that we might soon be rid of Bush?! :) You're right though - it's bizarre that she can get it taken off the air. I did hear that it got broadcast in the end. Last night? Boy what exciting viewing it must have made. Think they did the whole love affair with Margaret Thatcher?! :lol:

And he's off! Jolly good. Bye bye Bush. Apparently he rounded up his tour with a lunch with some "hand-picked ordinary people". Great... Not exactly comparable to Clinton ditching his bodyguards for a wander round town, followed by fish and chips in a pub, chatting to the passersby, is it?!

Thanks for the update. ;)

Thanks for the update.

You actually care what he's doing?! :crazy:

I'm not the ONLY one!:mad:

Am I the only REPUBLICAN on this board? :seeya: LOL

See, Micky, there's 2 of us at least!

Couldn't you have kept him there longer Mickey?

No thanks! Geez, thousands and thousands it cost, just to get enough police men to stop him from catching a glimpse of the protestors. Britain is used to heavy security costs, having spent the last thirty years plus having to stop famous people from being blown up by the IRA - by the looks of things that was cheaper than protecting Bush from people who don't like his foreign policy. :( And this is the UK, where 'protesting' is more inclined to involve shaking a fist rather severely, and saying "I say, Mr President, this war thing is just not on, you know."

Well, okay, maybe not. :) But still...

You lot keep Bush. We'll have Clinton!

It doesn't matter how many times you say it, they don't remember it that way, he was so great with the economy and things boomed for 8 years, yet they prefer this guy where things BOMB instead of BOOM! Go Figure!

Yeah, like either of you even lived here..............geez...:mad:

Exactly Lodee. So maybe we have a different perspective! I can't speak for Canada, but in Britain we're a lot more left wing on the whole than North America is. We tend to find the Republican party genuinely scary! Even the Democrats are hedging towards the right of our political scale. Besides, it's a matter of personality. Clinton was always hugely popular over here, and in a lot of other places.

Just trying to imagine Nelson Mandela peremptorily ordering Bush to help him downstairs and hold the door open for him. Can't see it happening! :)

In the interests of balance, though, George W doesn't seem like a nasty bloke. Okay?! :lol:


__________________
46664 - Play Music - Fight AIDS (http://www.46664.com)

You don't have to live there, although i am 40 miles away, you read the papers and magazines and filter through the propaganda and you know the truth.

Fair point Splain. After all, you don't live here and you know what a delight Margaret Thatcher was! :)

Yes, i know, Reagan in a dress! He would just love that analogy!

Maybe that was why he loved her so much!

We had one of those too unfortunately, Brian Mulroney, everything for the rich and the heck with the poor, same as the other two. Well, birds of a feather flock together!

Maybe it was a phase the world had to pass through? Maybe we'll get lucky now, and we'll get to be led by people like Mandela.

:)






__________________
46664 - Play Music - Fight AIDS (http://www.46664.com)

Yes well, for every Mandela, there are fifty of the OTHER type!

Where'd Lodee go? Come on, Republicans, there's no point having a political discussion when we're all on the same side of the fence!






__________________
46664 - Play Music - Fight AIDS (http://www.46664.com)

Lodee is disgusted with some of the people on the boards for being infantile and other things, and i'm trying to convince her not to give up on this board as there are more adult discussions here, thanks to Dawsongirl i guess. I'm surprised we haven't been told off for being off topic Mick! They might be tougher here, but they are more lenient!

They may be tougher, but at least they're not as scary as Television Without Pity!

Anyway, we're not off topic. We're completely on topic. We're discussing... um... well, Republicans and Democrats is what started this, right, and that's America, and that's where ILL is set, so we're discussing the social context of the show.

And that's the excuse I'm sticking to. :)


PS - Come back Lodee. We're not all infantile. At least, not intentionally!




__________________
46664 - Play Music - Fight AIDS (http://www.46664.com)

Speak for yourself, that's how i relate so well to Lucy's childlike behavior! You see Ricky treated her like a child and sometimes scolded her or even span . . . MICK, IF THAT DOESN'T BRING HER BACK, NOTHING WILL!:lol:

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/WORLD/meast/11/27/sprj.irq.main/story.bu*****urkey.ap.jpg Alright, I'll come back!

Why two turkeys?????:lol:

Oh and nice to finally hear from you again, you see, we DO miss you!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
Oh and nice to finally hear from you again, you see, we DO miss you! ;) Thanks.....:)

You should also go see what's going on in our gossip thread over on the other board! I might be joining you soon!

You mean it got better or worse? I leave and look what happens!

See now that's just sick. In one picture he's saving a turkey's life, and in the other he's wandering around with a dead, cooked one. Make up your mind, man!

And if George W eats turkey, is it cannibalism?! :lol:

I never thought about it that way!:lol: (oh, and I'll just ignore that LAST remark!;) )

Is that your job in Britain Mickey, STAND UP COMEDY? You sound better than Leno or Letterman, that was very funny!

STAND UP COMEDY?

Man, you're kidding?! More like run away and hide comedy. An audience? People looking at me?! Yikes. :eek:

:lol:





__________________
46664 - Play Music - Fight AIDS (http://www.46664.com)

Originally posted by crazyredhead
Am I the only REPUBLICAN on this board? :seeya: LOL

Thankfully NO, you are not the only republican on this board :) I think after being hammered by a couple of foreignors for the past 50 or so post, its time we Americans have a little say on the matter. For one, thank god we had a good republican leader like Bush in the Whitehouse after 9/11. Since we all know it was the Clinton defense budget cuts that actually led to 9/11, I'm glad it was Bush who was in office and NOT Gore. I only know if Gore would've been president, the U.S. would no longer exist, and we'd now be experiencing the kind of everyday terror Israel experiences. As for the British people, I thank god the majority are sane, rational people who understand the reasons for what we are doing in our battle against terror. The left wing just doesn't get it...What did political correctness get us? The answer...9/11. Now back on topic....


Where's that picture we were promised of Lucy smoking when she was pregnant?

Nice job cuckoo, since you brought it up and i joined the boards right after September 11th, what's your answer to this? Bush allowed a plane load of Saudis including Bin Laden's family to leave the country right after Sept 11th, WHY? Must be those gigantic monatary ties to the Republican party that the Saudis are always bribing, you know, the same people who give the Bush family trips are the ones who did the job on Sept 11th, financing everything, that's why Bush protected them by covering what they did with all those top secret backed out passages in those CIA reports, remember those? Clinton wouldn't have invaded Iraq without the UN's consent, to find imaginary weapons of mass destruction, did they find those yet? Tell Bush to deal with North Korea before the world gets wiped out, but this time he shouldn't just waste more American lives there needlessly, he should get the world to help.

If you guys want to talk politics...go to the Chit Chat board and then the political board. NOT HERE.