I'm wondering what killed AfterMASH in its second season. It did very well during season one- coming in #15 in the nielsen ratings. What happened during season two that caused the show to do so poorly that it needed to be cancelled mid-way through the season?

It really wasn't funny. Also it was moved opposite the A-Team for season 2.

What killed "AfterMASH" was that everyone's expectations of it were too high. The network expected it to be the same quality as "MASH" and it wasn't. They even put it in the same time slot, hoping that lightning would strike twice. It wasn't a bad show, it just wasn't great.

Does anybody know the actual ratings for the second season? I would like to post them on the AfterMASH site at TVTome.

Thanks!

what happened was, the writers started doing too much to get it back up in the ratings, and started copying things from MASH, but they didn't work. Things like, having Klinger start wearing dresses again, doing his "crazy" stuff again, having appearences by Col. Flagg & Sidney Freedman. I remember reading an interview somewhere with Jamie Farr talking about the series, and even he thought they were starting to go too far.

And, from what I remember, I heard that all these things didn't work, and only made the show stuoid!!

It had no chemistry and no other characters other than Klinger and Porter!! Scripts that won't hold a candle to the original!!

Originally posted by Riff
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=4240%40mit-eddie.UUCP&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

Scroll down to the bottom. Way down at the bottom.

Thanks for this information. I've posted it on the TVTome AfterMASH guide. I knew AM's ratings dropped in the 2nd season, but I never thought they fell as low as they did.

"Mr Roper"'s second sentence is the full answer to this question. The second season premiere of "AfterMASH" aired on a Sunday night in 1984 (a week before "Murder, She Wrote" assumed that timeslot) and finished as the #10 program that week. Two days later, the season's second episode aired on Tuesday night against "The A-Team", and the ratings absolutely tanked against that NBC's big hit show.

It also didn't help that too much tinkering around occurred with the second season. The adorable Barbara Townsend was replaced as Mildred Potter by some squatty, frowny-faced woman who showed ZERO chemistry with Harry Morgan (Ann Pitoniak). The cartoony hospital administrator character was replaced by a no-nonsense hospital administrator who simply was not funny. Honestly, as cartoony as he was, they shoulda stuck with Mike D'Angelo in comparison to the Wally Wainright character. (Ohhhh, if they only could've convinced Larry Linville to come back as Frank Burns as the hospital's administrator...! That's something I actually mentioned to Linville back in 1984....!) The ongoing storyline of Klinger REALLY being in a mental ward after his wife had just had a baby got stretched waaaaay too long. Some new young doctor was introduced who seemed to be a bad attempt at melding the innocent Radar with the stickler Frank Burns. Only two highlights to the second season: an episode called "Madness To His Method" in which the writing of all of the characters finally really clicked, and the half of the "Trials" episode containing the scenes of Ed Winter back in wonderfully memorable form as Col. Flagg.

I don't remember very much about this show, but I do remember watching one episode where the hospital had a shortage of something or other, and Klinger was on the phone trying to drum some up. He was all excited and said something along the lines of "Oh, boy, just like in Korea! This is great!" Which struck me as stupid, because he supposedly hated his time in Korea.

Well the move to Tuesdays against "The A-Team" didn't help much...other shows affected by T & CO, include:

Happy Days
Laverne & Shirley
Three's A Crowd
Just Our Luck (no significant value but had to throw this in just for the ironic title).

So afterMASH is in good company.

As for (in another post) how it finished in it's second (and finale year) in the Nielsen Ratings:

#72

compared to it's competition:

"Foul-Ups Bleeps & Blunders" on ABC #48

and

"The A-Team" on NBC #6

Source: TV GUIDE

Hope this helps folks

"Mr Roper"'s second sentence is the full answer to this question. The second season premiere of "AfterMASH" aired on a Sunday night in 1984 (a week before "Murder, She Wrote" assumed that timeslot) and finished as the #10 program that week. Two days later, the season's second episode aired on Tuesday night against "The A-Team", and the ratings absolutely tanked against that NBC's big hit show.

It also didn't help that too much tinkering around occurred with the second season. The adorable Barbara Townsend was replaced as Mildred Potter by some squatty, frowny-faced woman who showed ZERO chemistry with Harry Morgan (Ann Pitoniak). The cartoony hospital administrator character was replaced by a no-nonsense hospital administrator who simply was not funny. Honestly, as cartoony as he was, they shoulda stuck with Mike D'Angelo in comparison to the Wally Wainright character. (Ohhhh, if they only could've convinced Larry Linville to come back as Frank Burns as the hospital's administrator...! That's something I actually mentioned to Linville back in 1984....!) The ongoing storyline of Klinger REALLY being in a mental ward after his wife had just had a baby got stretched waaaaay too long. Some new young doctor was introduced who seemed to be a bad attempt at melding the innocent Radar with the stickler Frank Burns. Only two highlights to the second season: an episode called "Madness To His Method" in which the writing of all of the characters finally really clicked, and the half of the "Trials" episode containing the scenes of Ed Winter back in wonderfully memorable form as Col. Flagg.I thought the second part of the two-part episode where Gary Burghoff guest stared as Radar was OK -not great, but not bad either.
(he only had a cameo in the very last scene of the first part)

i think SOME of the reasons this show got gutted like it did so early into season 2 have been touched on: low ratings in new time slot and it's inability to post M*A*S*H* numbers during its first season, but i think there was another factor here and I think it was the key factor in the show's quick dismissal: MONEY.

can you imagine how much money this series cost CBS just in terms of paying Larry Gelbart, 20th Century Fox, Harry Morgan, Jamie Farr and William Christopher? All these folks (and undoubtedly more from behind the scenes) were coming off a smash show that literally ended on its highest (ratings) note!

when season 1 posted it's good numbers, it couldn't help compare unfavorably to MASH ratings, and i imagine the first commercial breaks were extremely expensive for sponsors but had to be dropped as ratings proved the show wasn't as big a draw as its predecessor.

as for season 2: whenever a cast and/or behind the scenes creators are scuttled and replaced in a big way it's because there is big trouble and a last-ditch effort is being made.

i think the tuesday time slot (a shoo-in for ratings failure back then) was given to this show on purpose so CBS could get out of this deal as quickly as possible and cut its losses.

consider if AMASH had suddenly, unbelievably taken off on Tuesdays, posting record ratings and earning top advertising dollars...CBS would have embraced it and kept it going as long as the gravy train could run, so some honcho probably figured putting this series in a death match would ultimately prove a win/win or at least win/cut loss situation for the network.

as for the quality of the show, i can't attest to season 2, since i, like most folks in fall 1984 missed it entirely, but i was a big fan of the series during season 1.

but the quality of the show is almost NEVER a matter to network programmers, who function on the basis of a bottom line and there are more than enough examples of that out there, right?

i can attest to season 2 it stunk season 1 was pretty good but when the network started messing with it it went downhill

Well the move to Tuesdays against "The A-Team" didn't help much...other shows affected by T & CO, include:

Happy Days
Laverne & Shirley
Three's A Crowd
Just Our Luck (no significant value but had to throw this in just for the ironic title).

So afterMASH is in good company.

As for (in another post) how it finished in it's second (and finale year) in the Nielsen Ratings:

#72

compared to it's competition:

"Foul-Ups Bleeps & Blunders" on ABC #48

and

"The A-Team" on NBC #6

Source: TV GUIDE

Hope this helps folks
The A-Team also killed Alice and The Jeffersons which were the shows that replaced AfterMash in that hour after Aftermash was canceled.

It didn't help that they used 3 of the dullest characters on the show. Father Mulahey(sp?) was dull, dull, dull. Col. Potter was ok, but he was more of the straight man on MASH. Jamie Farr was good on MASH, but when he dressed up like a lady and tried to be crazy. He got married and grew up on AfterMash.

pscisme's post was very sharp and on the mark. "AfterMASH" was one of the most expensive shows on television in 1984, and Tuesday 8:00-8:30 was CBS' equivalent of dead air at the time. They were in the toilet there even before "The A-Team" came along. Bud Grant knew what he was doing. The critics massacred the show, too, so it wasn't like there was going to be an uproar over its cancellation.

Ironically, Tuesday 8:00-8:30 is currently NBC's equivalent of dead air, so it wouldn't surprise me to see the "AfterMASH" of today, "Joey," wind up there next year.
The show just wasn't that funny. I loved MASH and was looking forward to this show and I lost interest fast.Maybe if Alan Alda was in it, it would have been better.

During the end of M*A*S*H's run, the actors voted as to whether the series should continue. Guess which actors voted to keep the show going??

I saw very little of this show, as I didn't have a VCR and had a part-time job nights. I wish TV land would show this - it would be almost like seeing a brand new show.

A similar thing happened when Bea Arthur left The Golden Girls and the show was retooled as The Golden Palace. It just didn't have the same panache with a key character gone and lasted less than a season.

What killed "AfterMASH" was that everyone's expectations of it were too high. The network expected it to be the same quality as "MASH" and it wasn't. They even put it in the same time slot, hoping that lightning would strike twice. It wasn't a bad show, it just wasn't great.

Shades of Joey!

the Friends spin off sux big time. :mad:

Some spin off shouldn't be made at all.

I don't care for either show.

A similar thing happened when Bea Arthur left The Golden Girls and the show was retooled as The Golden Palace. It just didn't have the same panache with a key character gone and lasted less than a season.

I care less about The Golden Palace. I didn't watch it once.

The girls didn't have no business of running a hotel.

I will rather to watch all the girls on THE GOLDEN GIRLS.

Monday Night Football was too much for AfterMASH. MNF was becoming very popular at the Time AfterMash premiered on CBS

The show just wasn't that funny. I loved MASH and was looking forward to this show and I lost interest fast.Maybe if Alan Alda was in it, it would have been better.

If Alan Alda was the star, it probably would've been a hit.

I always suspected that Klinger was just using the war as an excuse to cross dress. :crazy:

I think it was because of Low Ratings that Killed The Show

I had only seen the show a few times. The first episodes were okay, but it started to seem like every one was trying to hard. Maybe almost like they were kind of lost on what they were doing. And as usual for me with spin offs, it was weird for me to get used to seeing only some one the characters in a different setting.

It didn't help that they used 3 of the dullest characters on the show. Father Mulahey(sp?) was dull, dull, dull. Col. Potter was ok, but he was more of the straight man on MASH. Jamie Farr was good on MASH, but when he dressed up like a lady and tried to be crazy. He got married and grew up on AfterMash.

Right, but when the ratings weren't good in the first season, they resorted to having him wear drag again.

I've said it before, but you can't base a show on three supporting characters and expect it to fly. They needed a Hawkeye-type character to shake things up. They tried bringing in Radar and Colonel Flagg as guest stars, but it didn't revive the show.

They tried a similar thing years later with The New WKRP In Cincinnati: They revived the show based on three supporting characters (Arthur "Big Guy" Carlson, Les Nessman and Herb Tarlek) and that didn't work either. Like After-MASH, it only lasted a couple of seasons, if I recall correctly.

Sometimes, it's better to just let go. Harry Morgan, Jamie Farr & William Christopher stayed too long at the party. Hell, the IBM commercials with Morgan, Loretta Swit, Wayne Rogers & Gary Burghoff were funnier. Plus, it was kind of cool to see "Colonel Potter" and "Trapper John" together in the same commercial.

A time slot change and some cast changes in the second season also served to put the nails in the coffin. The first season did a respectable #15 in the year end Nielsens.

A time slot change and some cast changes in the second season also served to put the nails in the coffin. The first season did a respectable #15 in the year end Nielsens.

What network executives fail to realize is that TV watchers (especially back then) are creatures of habit. They get used to a show being on certain night.

If you have a show that's in the top 20, don't mess with the time slot?

Also, if I recall, they changed the actress who played Potter's wife, right? And they brought in a new hospital administrator, right?

Don't mess with something if it's getting a rating!

Ironically, AfterMASH's first season ratings were better than M*A*S*H's.

Never scene After MASH. Did the show take place in Hannibal MO? I know Potter was from Hannibal.

^ Yes it did.

What killed this show was basically the premise. What made MASH so unique was it's comedy/drama within the war setting. When they took that setting away with AfterMASH, it was like any other sitcom. I watched with great interest at first, but just couldn't get into it and lost interest soon after.

It really wasn't funny. Also it was moved opposite the A-Team for season 2.

I remember bumping into that promo for the 2nd season of AfterMASH on Youtube one day and I kind of laughed at Klinger butchering up a dummy that looked like Mr. T and Klinger taunting him. :lol:

In the end the joke was really on AfterMASH!

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=4240%40mit-eddie.UUCP&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

Scroll down to the bottom. Way down at the bottom.

It finished ahead of Silver Spoons. Wow!!

It finished ahead of Silver Spoons. Wow!!

Even sadder is that with the exceptions of Newhart and Kate and Allie, the majority of CBS's sitcoms were getting basement ratings, including AfterM*A*S*H.

Thanks for this information. I've posted it on the TVTome AfterMASH guide. I knew AM's ratings dropped in the 2nd season, but I never thought they fell as low as they did.

Nowadays, a Nielsen rating of 9.0 would be a huge success.

Bottom line: Network meddling killed it. It got good ratings the first year, but then they tinkered with it and moved the time slot.

After-MASH was never going to be the great show that it spun off from, but it could have had a good five year run or so if CBS had just let it be.

Dr. Thong wrote:

"Bottom line: Network meddling killed it. It got good ratings the first year, but then they tinkered with it and moved the time slot".


Ratings are like a lot of things, the devil is in the details. The show exploded out of the box pulling huge numbers, the question was, how many of those eyeballs were going to return week after week. Once the early sampling was over the rating started going down. By the time the last few season 1 episodes were airing the show was losing in its timeslot. The decline over the season forced changes to try to jumpstart the series, things like this are not done when a show is working. The network had a hit series at 8:00 and was looking to build an audience for the rest of the evening, AfterMASH was losing audience.

CBS had a potential hit on their hands with the well received Kate & Allie, a late arrival to the 83-84 schedule. For the 84-85 season the network built the Monday schedule around series that appealed to women. Scarecrow & Mrs. King featuring the popular Kate Jackson 8-9pm, Kate & Allie a contempory series about two divorced women with children living together, Newhart (a series that was retooled for season 3) and Cagney & Lacey 10-11pm to round it out. The network programmers seemed on their toes putting a schedule like this together, AfterMASH wasn't renewed until May so in spite of its early success it was on the bubble.

The second season was a fiasco, the rating were bad and the series was cancelled. The show behind it on Tuesday (E/R) actually did better than AfterMASH.

I remember it being lame.

One of the major problems was that the 3 leads of the show were just supporting actors. They were not leads that were going to make a hit show. They were supporting actors on Mash for a reason. Mash would not have been a hit either if those 3 were carrying the show.