I am doing a poll on one of my favorite sitcoms, the Facts of Life, and I am wondering if the series had kept one more girl from the first season, who would it be? In other words, when the show was starting its second season which introduced Nancy McKeon as Jo, what other girl should stay on as regular throughout the entire run of the series. I strongly believe that Blair, Tootie, and Natalie, and Jo should stay, and the one girl I would choose to stay with the cast would be Sue Ann Weaver, played by the lovely Julie Piekarski. I particularly enjoyed watching her in the first season because she was the most beautiful blonde I had ever seen, plus she had a splendid figure and lovely arms and legs. I wish she should have stayed on for the entire run of the series.

Which girl from the first season should have stayed with the familiar foursome with Mrs. Garrett until the end?

CJ Malagodi :)

I woulda kept Cindy just cuz it woulda been kinda funny to see what her and Jo ended up doing when she entered onto the show. But if this was an option. i wouldn't of kept any of em cuz they all seem to act alike in some way like Nancy and Sue Ann were kinda like Blair and Cindy was like Jo and Molly was in a way like Nat and Tootie. I think they made the best decision!:)

I voted for Sue Ann

Originally posted by Shmoo
I woulda kept Cindy just cuz it woulda been kinda funny to see what her and Jo ended up doing when she entered onto the show. But if this was an option. i wouldn't of kept any of em cuz they all seem to act alike in some way like Nancy and Sue Ann were kinda like Blair and Cindy was like Jo and Molly was in a way like Nat and Tootie. I think they made the best decision!:)


Um what Shmoo said!

I voted for Sue Ann. She always kind of reminded me of Mary Ann on "Gilligan's Island", a wholesome farm girl. And she always enjoyed putting Blair in her place.

I like Sue Ann a lot but if I were forced to pick which one I would keep for the second season it would be Nancy Olson, because it seemed like some of the characters were very similar to each other for example Sue Ann was a lot like Blair, Cindy was a lot like Jo and Molly was a lot like Tootie so I think Nancy balanced it out, IMO and I like characters that have there own distinct characteristics. The reason why I chose Nancy is because she is a very talented actress and yet she was very attractive and beautiful, I would've liked her to have more screen time during the first season because you would usually only see her in scenes while she was on the phone with her boyfriend, Roger or with very few speaking parts, so I think if she stayed for the remainder of the series, she wouldn't have been so underated like when she was as a regular in season 1, however it was nice to see her again when she appeared as an extra in the second season.

Cindy is my fav'rite, but I voted for Molly, cause I thought she would be interesting and more "unlike" the others, especially if they played out the "more mature than she actually is/heavy feminism" elements she had.

My vote's for Nancy. She did have a stronger personality than some of the other girls but you have to remember, she was just like the girl next door type. Each othe girl had heir own defining personality that MADE their character--examples: Blair--the snob, Jo--the tough one, etc. Nancy pretty much went through the motions more levelheaded than some of the other girls would've reacted. I could see Nancy's character developing along with the series had she stayed on.

Molly Parker

Sue Ann

I would have to choose Nancy after seeing her in episode 29 Gossip. Even though she was no longer a regular cast member at that point, Felice finally got to show some of her acting chops in her scenes and they were pretty funny. When she made her first appearance early in the episode it almost seemed like she was still one of the main girls almost like she was never fired. She also had developed a distinct personality over a year that was seperate from Jo and Blair the other girls her age. The producers should of picked up on this and at least kept her on a recurring basis.

Sue Ann, her and Blair loved to get into it and can you imagine Sue Ann and Jo together tag teaming Blair, we can only imagine how funny that would have been.

Sue Ann, she was sweet and could have kinda gotten(?) along with the other girls!;)

actually, Molly ringwald was suppost to stay. but she left to do a movie. but if she did stay, i don't think she would've been in any of the hit 80s movies she was in.

Molly definately!

She's a great actress.

And I always liked her the best out of the first season girls.

I picked Cindy...I just thought her character was pretty cool.

Sue Ann :D

I voted for Molly Parker.

Molly Ringwald....... at least until 16 candles and all that happened....... I dig her, she has style ;)

Sue Ann would have been a good choice.

Sue Ann, her and Blair loved to get into it and can you imagine Sue Ann and Jo together tag teaming Blair, we can only imagine how funny that would have been.

That s a pretty tough one but i d pick SUE ANN too: she was kind but loved to tease too (although i d see her becoming closer to TOOTIE & NAT, not so much JO & BLAIR); CINDY would be my next choice & she d definitely be on JO s side!(in fact, she d probably love to torment BLAIR + make her jealous by developing a crush on JO); NANCY would be more likely to have a "rivalry" relationship with BLAIR (they d probably steal each other s boyfriends lol); Lastly, MOLLY is the only 1 i don t see in the show at all (she s be out of place since she s too much of a goody too shoes).......:happyface

I voted for Sue Ann. She always kind of reminded me of Mary Ann on "Gilligan's Island", a wholesome farm girl. And she always enjoyed putting Blair in her place.

She was like Mary Ann, but not as good looking.:)

I like Sue Ann a lot but if I were forced to pick which one I would keep for the second season it would be Nancy Olson, because it seemed like some of the characters were very similar to each other for example Sue Ann was a lot like Blair, Cindy was a lot like Jo and Molly was a lot like Tootie so I think Nancy balanced it out, IMO and I like characters that have there own distinct characteristics. The reason why I chose Nancy is because she is a very talented actress and yet she was very attractive and beautiful, I would've liked her to have more screen time during the first season because you would usually only see her in scenes while she was on the phone with her boyfriend, Roger or with very few speaking parts, so I think if she stayed for the remainder of the series, she wouldn't have been so underated like when she was as a regular in season 1, however it was nice to see her again when she appeared as an extra in the second season.Is it possible that Felice Schachter was fired because her character had the same first name as Nancy McKeon????:crazy:

Resurrecting this old thread to vote for Cindy. They were all really good, and any one of them could have done a great job, but Cindy seemed to offer more possibilities.

She had the gymnastics thing going on. Imagine an episode where she's pushed past her limit by a gym coach, or her own expectations. Imagine all the possibilities they could have had with Jo and Cindy playing sports. And Julie Anne Haddock was a good foil for the snobby Blair character, which they softened in the second season.

10 years later....I would say Molly! She would have made a great wildcard to the cast. There was really nothing very interesting about Nancy, she was too one-dimensional. All I knew about her was her obsession with Roger, beauty and doing well at school.

10 years later....I would say Molly! She would have made a great wildcard to the cast. There was really nothing very interesting about Nancy, she was too one-dimensional. All I knew about her was her obsession with Roger, beauty and doing well at school.

But how was Molly three-dimensional?

We know Nancy did well at school, was obsessed with Roger, and liked Mikhail Baryshnikov... in fact, she was in general completely boy-crazy. She would do anything to attract a boy's eye. We know she was a scholarship student, she starred in the school play, and had the highest IQ of all the girls at Eastland Academy.

Molly... was a (IMO not very good) musician and activist. And... well...:confused:

Molly Ringwald had some acting chops, it's just too bad she had to leave to pursue a film career :p I think if the writers developed and added some more dimension to her character, I think she would have the most potential.

Lisa Whelchel was better at being narcissistic, snobby, and boy-crazy than Felice Schacter. Nancy McKeon is still better than Julie Ann Haddock and Julie Piekarski combined.

I think the writers made the right choice though. If they still added another character from season one to the show, it just wouldn't have been good.

You know, given how awful the first season was, I'm surprised so many people are talking about it, especially to this day, more than 30 years later. It's important to keep in mind that the show was retooled for a reason. The first season was, quite simply, atrocious, and the retool saw a better set, a better theme song and many other improvements. I also found Mrs. Garrett to be completely annoying in the first season as most of her time was spent squabbling with Mr. Bradley. Getting into constant arguments with your boss is a good way to get shown the door. The show went from #74 in the ratings in its first season, to #26 in the second season, after they got rid of the dead weight.

That being said, the one thing I didn't like about the retool was the addition of Nancy McKeon. A little too tough for my liking, I found her constant threats of physical abuse and getting in people's faces (literally) to be too off-putting. She also got into too much trouble and was too immature for her age. I'll cast a vote for Cindy Webster (Julie Anne Haddock) to be put in Jo's place and stick around. I thought she was likeable, athletic, and tough while still being feminine, and if they would have wrote her as a lesbian (which seemed to be the direction they were going) it would have made for groundbreaking t.v. for the time.

My thoughts on other characters:

Sue Ann ~ why is she winning this poll? SHE SUCKS! I've talked about her at length in the thread "Did FOL drop the ball with the Sue Ann character" so I won't repeat it here. It's just a few threads down from this one. I found her "holier than thou" attitude to be really grating.

Nancy Olson ~ boooooorrrrrriiiiiinnnnnnggg. Roger this, Roger that. Had the personality of a dried up prune. Good riddance, she sucked. There was also another character with the same name on another NBC series around this time (Little House on the Prairie), so perhaps it was too confusing for some.

Molly ~ She was supposed to stick around and deserved to. Her character might have changed as she got older, and perhaps that was for the better, but this was Molly friggin Ringwald, so they should have done something with her. I personally think having a liberal character was good for the show as its run was roughly parallel to that of Reagan's presidency, timewise. And man, did that joker spare no opportunity to tell us how evil his former party supposedly was. She was also a redhead, so it would have been a nice balance for the show.

Mr. Bradley ~ I actually found him to be pretty likeable, even though he was cast out to be the quasi-villain of the show. The guy sacrificed his vacation in one episode to solve a problem for the girls, and in another he risked his life to help out Blair, Tootie and their pets. I don't know why Mrs. G. constantly thought of him as a backwards empty suit.

Miss Emily Mahoney ~ sucked. I started a thread on her, it's still on the first page.

I also agree it would have been nice to see more of Kimberly Drummond.

The show went from #74 in the ratings in its first season, to #26 in the second season, after they got rid of the dead weight.

The ratings improving has been attributed to better scripts/acting over the years, but to be honest, during the first season, FOL was scheduled against the hits "Fantasy Island" and "The Incredible Hulk". There was no way it was going to be a ratings success going up against two hit shows.

In season two, FOL was moved to Wednesdays directly after Diff'rent Strokes, its parent show, where you'd expect a spin-off to be. It was scheduled against a CBS made-for-TV movie and "Soap" in its final season. It was an easy night for a ratings victory, and having the lead-in from a well-established related show helped, too.

Add to that fact that NBC only ordered 13 episodes of season one, spread out over a full year (while season two was 16 episodes during 5 months) meant there were fewer repeats, and thus, higher ratings, and these were major reasons why S2 was much higher rated than S1.

No doubt getting rid of the first season's cheesy theme helped, too, but I don't believe getting rid of Julie Anne Haddock (who already had several big movies under her belt), Molly Ringwald (who would go on to prove herself in countless films), and Felice Schachter (who would also later find success in film) had anything to do with the show's success.


That being said, the one thing I didn't like about the retool was the addition of Nancy McKeon. A little too tough for my liking, I found her constant threats of physical abuse and getting in people's faces (literally) to be too off-putting.

I agree. It's like they were trying to re-create Fonzie.

I'll cast a vote for Cindy Webster (Julie Anne Haddock) to be put in Jo's place and stick around. I thought she was likeable, athletic, and tough while still being feminine, and if they would have wrote her as a lesbian (which seemed to be the direction they were going) it would have made for groundbreaking t.v. for the time.

It really was groundbreaking on TV in that era to even hint that a 14-year-old girl might be a lesbian, and it was courageous of Julie Anne to tackle the role. This was way before being gay was accepted on television. Maybe about a decade before.


Molly ~ She was supposed to stick around and deserved to. Her character might have changed as she got older, and perhaps that was for the better, but this was Molly friggin Ringwald, so they should have done something with her. I personally think having a liberal character was good for the show as its run was roughly parallel to that of Reagan's presidency, timewise. And man, did that joker spare no opportunity to tell us how evil his former party supposedly was. She was also a redhead, so it would have been a nice balance for the show.

I think they didn't know what to do with her. Of all the girls, she had the least developed character. So they had her sing and play the guitar, and I don't think that's where her talents were. Under a skilled director, she found success elsewhere, which was good, but it's a shame the producers of FOL, and the execs at the network, were so short-sighted.


Mr. Bradley ~ I actually found him to be pretty likeable, even though he was cast out to be the quasi-villain of the show. The guy sacrificed his vacation in one episode to solve a problem for the girls, and in another he risked his life to help out Blair, Tootie and their pets. I don't know why Mrs. G. constantly thought of him as a backwards empty suit.

Well, he was pretty backwards in "IQ" and a few other episodes. I think he was meant to be Mrs. G's foil.


Miss Emily Mahoney ~ sucked. I started a thread on her, it's still on the first page.

She seemed way older (and stuffier) than 32, and there really was nothing to her character, other than being a bit of a stuffed shirt.


I also agree it would have been nice to see more of Kimberly Drummond.

Yeah, it was weird that she was almost never seen at a school she attended for about two years.

No doubt getting rid of the first season's cheesy theme helped, too, but I don't believe getting rid of Julie Anne Haddock (who already had several big movies under her belt), Molly Ringwald (who would go on to prove herself in countless films), and Felice Schachter (who would also later find success in film) had anything to do with the show's success.

As much as I love Cindy and Molly, I do have to agree with those who say the paring down of the cast and adding Nancy, to make a smaller more centralized cast (a la "The Golden Girls" and "Designing Women") did make a big difference for the chemistry and focus of the show.



Molly ~ I think they didn't know what to do with her. Of all the girls, she had the least developed character.

No one was lesser-developed than Nancy. Poor bland, flavorless, filler Nancy...(apologies to any Nancy fans)

As much as I love Cindy and Molly, I do have to agree with those who say the paring down of the cast and adding Nancy, to make a smaller more centralized cast (a la "The Golden Girls" and "Designing Women") did make a big difference for the chemistry and focus of the show.

It certainly changed the focus of the show, but I don't buy into the idea, stated often by NBC network executives, that having only four girls was the only way that the show would work. Plenty of other shows, including Degrassi Junior High, had much larger casts and still managed to be interesting, even, at times, profound television.


No one was lesser-developed than Nancy. Poor bland, flavorless, filler Nancy...(apologies to any Nancy fans)

Nancy wasn't bland: she was boy-crazy, smart, star of the school play... she had a bigger role than the unconvincing "12-year-old feminist" character they saddled Molly Ringwald with. :lol:

It certainly changed the focus of the show, but I don't buy into the idea, stated often by NBC network executives, that having only four girls was the only way that the show would work. Plenty of other shows, including Degrassi Junior High, had much larger casts and still managed to be interesting, even, at times, profound television.

I agree, I've always thought of shows with bigger casts too, like "Head of the Class" and "Cheers", which managed to work very well with more than 8 or 9 characters.


Nancy wasn't bland: she was boy-crazy, smart, star of the school play... she had a bigger role than the unconvincing "12-year-old feminist" character they saddled Molly Ringwald with. :lol:

For me Nancy was those things in a dull way though, which IMO is the difference; she just didn't have personality like the other girls did. That's why I've always felt is why she was the first one to be cut from the show.

And actually Felice and Molly both probably had about comparable amounts of screen time. Nancy was the same age as Blair and Nancy, so one would expect her to have about the same "lead" level and episode focus as them, but she was relegated to the back burner. That must have been such a disappointment for Felice, especially after the back-door pilot episode having her as the main issue.

I agree, I've always thought of shows with bigger casts too, like "Head of the Class" and "Cheers", which managed to work very well with more than 8 or 9 characters.

Exactly! You understand what network executives couldn't understand: that if you write your characters differently enough, you can have more than four females in a show. "Head of the Class" did it; "Degrassi" did it; FOL could have done it, too, with the right writers. But these writers dumped characters at the drop of a hat, over and over.


For me Nancy was those things in a dull way though, which IMO is the difference; she just didn't have personality like the other girls did. That's why I've always felt is why she was the first one to be cut from the show.

I thought she was hot and cute, and interested in racy things. For me, 'boring' is "I'm a liberated woman giving you all a lesson on what you should think". (It's not Molly Ringwald's fault that she was given that role; she just lost the draw).


And actually Felice and Molly both probably had about comparable amounts of screen time.

Absolutely true; good point. Felice has said herself that she was devastated when she came back to do the show, after the backdoor DS pilot, to find that her character was reduced to having so few lines. Without the Roger bit, and "IQ", she would have had almost nothing at all to do. It's a shame the writers couldn't come up with much else for her, because she had quite a bit of talent, even at that age.


Nancy was the same age as Blair and Nancy, so one would expect her to have about the same "lead" level and episode focus as them, but she was relegated to the back burner. That must have been such a disappointment for Felice, especially after the back-door pilot episode having her as the main issue.

Yeah. She said she even went to the producers and asked why her role was so minimal. They gave her a decent role in "IQ", but that was it. By the time of "Molly's Holiday", they literally had her character leave halfway through the episode. From lead actress to bit part in the space of one season.

I think one of the complications for the Nancy character was Blair. You can tell from the first opening sequence that the producers thought Felice and Lisa were going to be the big draws to the show, hence their top billing (among the girls). But the snobby, rich Blair character quickly eclipsed everything else, and the writers and producers knew they had a hit with her. It left very little room left over for another pretty girl of a similar age.

I'm not saying the producers weren't right to roll with the hit they knew Blair could be (they were absolutely right), but they could have thrown Felice a bone now and then. Why couldn't she have been the girl who develops a crush on Mr. Bradley in "Flash Flood"? Wasn't she the boy-crazy one?

Man, the scripts we could have written if you and I could go back in time right now! :lol:

For me, 'boring' is "I'm a liberated woman giving you all a lesson on what you should think". (It's not Molly Ringwald's fault that she was given that role; she just lost the draw).

See, I think Felice lost the draw. I liked Molly's feminism and environmentalism and how it made her stand apart. We just have our own viewpoints and preferences, lol.



It left very little room left over for another pretty girl of a similar age.

I can't believe they hired three blondes to be "the pretty girls". You would think they would at least mix the hair colors when hiring "the pretty ones", lol.


they could have thrown Felice a bone now and then. Why couldn't she have been the girl who develops a crush on Mr. Bradley in "Flash Flood"? Wasn't she the boy-crazy one?

Precisely; she was boy-crazy, not man-crazy. ;) I see your point though, lol.


Man, the scripts we could have written if you and I could go back in time right now! :lol:

After "Rough Housing" and "Running", mine would feature a LOT more Cindy!

Speaking of Cindy, it always bugged me that every girl got her surname spoken on the show except Cindy. Casual viewers will never know she is Cindy Webster. Even back-burner Nancy got to say her last name once! lol

I can't believe they hired three blondes to be "the pretty girls". You would think they would at least mix the hair colors when hiring "the pretty ones"

I think Felice was quite pretty, too.


After "Rough Housing" and "Running", mine would feature a LOT more Cindy!

Same here!


Speaking of Cindy, it always bugged me that every girl got her surname spoken on the show except Cindy. Casual viewers will never know she is Cindy Webster. Even back-burner Nancy got to say her last name once! lol

Good point. What's even worse is that in Season 8, Andy actually says her last name, and... it's suddenly "Baker". Maybe a professional name, maybe just a goof. :lol:

Good point. What's even worse is that in Season 8, Andy actually says her last name, and... it's suddenly "Baker". Maybe a professional name, maybe just a goof. :lol:

Hmmm, maybe that was her "stage name"?? lol

Yep. That's the only way to explain it from an in-show perspective. But I hate having to patch up a show's continuity myself. Didn't the writers and crew have access to the character profiles the previous writers for the show had made for the characters?

Yep. That's the only way to explain it from an in-show perspective. But I hate having to patch up a show's continuity myself. Didn't the writers and crew have access to the character profiles the previous writers for the show had made for the characters?

I know, that kinda thing drives me up the wall---how hard is to keep a "show bible" for a series, including complete and up-to-date character profiles??

If only they knew back then that there would be something called "DVD" and "the Internet", maybe they would have paid closer to attention to keeping things "exact"---especially you, "Golden Girls"! lol

Tough call...

I'd say Cindy, Molly, and Steven Bradley.

Cindy...because she's a tomboy and there'd be episodes where can talk to Mrs. Garret about her life.

Molly...because she was played by Molly Shannon, but her movie work got in her way.

Steven Bradley...he could've had a bigger role and maybe try to talk to Mrs. Garrett if he wasn't married on the show already.

Molly...because she was played by Molly Shannon, but her movie work got in her way.


Molly Shannon? :lol:

I know, that kinda thing drives me up the wall---how hard is to keep a "show bible" for a series, including complete and up-to-date character profiles??

If only they knew back then that there would be something called "DVD" and "the Internet", maybe they would have paid closer to attention to keeping things "exact"---especially you, "Golden Girls"! lol

Oh, man. "The Golden Girls" was the absolute worst about continuity. It's really not even clear how many children they all had, or what all characters played them. That was a complete mess. And you know someone was being paid to do continuity on that show.

At least FOL tried to have continuity, even if they botched it much of the time.

Cindy...because she's a tomboy and there'd be episodes where can talk to Mrs. Garret about her life.

Good choice. I think those episodes, with Cindy as the main girl, worked quite well. Julie Anne was very believable as a slightly awkward (tom-)girl trying to grow up. "Rough Housing" and "Running", both Cindy-heavy, are two of my favorite episodes from the first season.


Molly...because she was played by Molly Shannon, but her movie work got in her way.

I think Molly Ringwald's film career did not begin until 1982, with "The Tempest". She could have done more guest spots on FOL in 1980 and 1981, but she found the first one she did "humiliating", and never appeared on the show again. She was devastated.


Steven Bradley...he could've had a bigger role and maybe try to talk to Mrs. Garrett if he wasn't married on the show already.

I think the new producers didn't really want a man to have a big role on the show anymore. Howard the Chef and Mr. Perry/Mr. Harris/Mr. Parker rarely appeared.

Every time I watch season 1 I appreciate Molly more and more. She was given such distinct characteristics that she really could have been a fully-realized character with a distinct personality among our Eastland group.

We all know she was a feminist, but she was also a humanitarian/environmentalist, a hobbyist, and a musician. These were all wonderful traits for a personality that could have really grown and developed through her high school and college years.

Something fascinated I discovered recently, in a montage video someone put together on YouTube that's like an edited documentary of The Lost Girls, there is a clip I never saw before of some journalist in NY I think, and she says something to the effect of, "Molly Ringwald, to this day she says Nancy McKeon replaced her on FOL".

That's very interesting; if true, I wonder when this interview was done. If it was in the early-mid '80s, then it's more credible to hear that, since we know from a magazine interview quote that Molly was devastated at being let go and then felt humiliated at "having" to appear as a semi-regular after they cut her (I wonder if the Lost Girls were obligated under contract to have to appear if they were written into an episode?). She must have said that in what I would guess to be among her subjective "freshly bitter years" after that, because it's obvious NM did not replace her. 1), The character of Jo didn't have much in common with Molly, and 2), Molly was not the last of the Lost Girls cut, Julie Anne Haddock was the last. So if anyone should have felt like they had a right to say NM replaced them, it would be Julie P., who could say "I was Blair's foil! I was the poor scholarship girl who fought with her, NM replaced me!", or Julie Anne, who could say "I was the tomboy who didn't like girly things! I was into sports and from a broken home, NM replaced me!". Yet Molly Ringwald claimed NM replaced her? lol, interesting. I bet today though, so far removed from her personal horrible experience of losing the show, she might be objective enough to realize NM did not "replace her".

Okay, there were some similar aspects in Jo and Molly...neither one would give a flying Enda's Edibles fig (lol) over what a fashion magazine told them they should be like, or go all silly over a boy or let a boy "rule them". But by and large, Jo was, like some say, much more a composite of Cindy and Sue Ann.

Speaking of seasons 2 and 3 cameos that I touched on above, when you consider Cindy and Sue Ann, it's kind of ridiculous that the writers and producers went to all that trouble to feature the Lost Girls in cameo roles for a sense of continuity and to keep them on the scene as semi-regulars, even crediting them in the end credits, but they never wrote their names into the script! The other girls or Mrs. Garrett never say "Cindy" or "Sue Ann". Really, FOL? You're going to bring them back now and again "for viewers' sake" but you won't even have them identified by name during the episode? Yet you credit them under their character names in the end credits.

Now they started off right by having Tootie call Molly by name in "The New Girl - Part 2", so first-season viewers could make the connection ("Hey, it's Molly!" "Wow, she was from the first season!" "I remember her---whoa she's grown up!", etc.), and of course Nancy was like a "featured guest star" in "Gossip" so her name was spoken a lot, but it really bugs me that Cindy and even Sue Ann were never referred to by name during their Eastland year cameo episodes.


I think those episodes, with Cindy as the main girl, worked quite well. Julie Anne was very believable as a slightly awkward (tom-)girl trying to grow up. "Rough Housing" and "Running", both Cindy-heavy, are two of my favorite episodes from the first season.

Except "Running" is more Sue Ann-heavy, with Cindy still more a supporting character, despite her being such a central part of the plot. It's like Sue Ann, Mrs. Garrett, and Mr. Bradley are the top stars of the episode, with Cindy on the 2nd tier.

Every time I watch season 1 I appreciate Molly more and more. She was given such distinct characteristics that she really could have been a fully-realized character with a distinct personality among our Eastland group.

Molly Parker definitely could have been a fully-realized character, but for me, the writing made her a cardboard cut-out. It's to Molly Ringwald's credit that she was able to deliver a good performance with not-so-great material. The feminist character they gave her was very one-note.


We all know she was a feminist, but she was also a humanitarian/environmentalist, a hobbyist, and a musician. These were all wonderful traits for a personality that could have really grown and developed through her high school and college years.

They totally could have done more with Molly, given more time. Think how Molly Parker would have reacted, knowing the Eastland School Board was banning books. Think of her reaction on learning the new library was being dedicated in the name of a racist. (These types of roles went to Natalie).


Something fascinated I discovered recently, in a montage video someone put together on YouTube that's like an edited documentary of The Lost Girls, there is a clip I never saw before of some journalist in NY I think, and she says something to the effect of, "Molly Ringwald, to this day she says Nancy McKeon replaced her on FOL".

That is my video montage! :) The part with the NY journalist actually comes from the Nancy McKeon biography. I used as many sources on the Lost Girls that I could find. Unfortunately, there are others that I couldn't use, because the videos are not online. E! had an excellent documentary in 1999 that isn't available anywhere online, which talks about the Lost Girls as well.


That's very interesting; if true, I wonder when this interview was done. If it was in the early-mid '80s, then it's more credible to hear that, since we know from a magazine interview quote that Molly was devastated at being let go and then felt humiliated at "having" to appear as a semi-regular after they cut her (I wonder if the Lost Girls were obligated under contract to have to appear if they were written into an episode?). She must have said that in what I would guess to be among her subjective "freshly bitter years" after that, because it's obvious NM did not replace her. 1), The character of Jo didn't have much in common with Molly, and 2), Molly was not the last of the Lost Girls cut, Julie Anne Haddock was the last. So if anyone should have felt like they had a right to say NM replaced them, it would be Julie P., who could say "I was Blair's foil! I was the poor scholarship girl who fought with her, NM replaced me!", or Julie Anne, who could say "I was the tomboy who didn't like girly things! I was into sports and from a broken home, NM replaced me!". Yet Molly Ringwald claimed NM replaced her? lol, interesting. I bet today though, so far removed from her personal horrible experience of losing the show, she might be objective enough to realize NM did not "replace her".

I think Jo replaced Cindy, Nancy, Sue Ann and Molly, so in that sense, Nancy McKeon did replace her. But I see what you're saying. And I do agree that, strictly speaking, Jo replaced Cindy and Sue Ann, while the characters of Nancy and Molly were just dropped.


Speaking of seasons 2 and 3 cameos that I touched on above, when you consider Cindy and Sue Ann, it's kind of ridiculous that the writers and producers went to all that trouble to feature the Lost Girls in cameo roles for a sense of continuity and to keep them on the scene as semi-regulars, even crediting them in the end credits, but they never wrote their names into the script! The other girls or Mrs. Garrett never say "Cindy" or "Sue Ann". Really, FOL? You're going to bring them back now and again "for viewers' sake" but you won't even have them identified by name during the episode? Yet you credit them under their character names in the end credits.

I actually never noticed they don't refer to them by name during Seasons 2 or 3. Good catch!


Now they started off right by having Tootie call Molly by name in "The New Girl - Part 2", so first-season viewers could make the connection ("Hey, it's Molly!" "Wow, she was from the first season!" "I remember her---whoa she's grown up!", etc.), and of course Nancy was like a "featured guest star" in "Gossip" so her name was spoken a lot, but it really bugs me that Cindy and even Sue Ann were never referred to by name during their Eastland year cameo episodes.

Well, now that you point it out, that bugs me, too. Still, I suppose we're lucky they brought them back at all. Continuity wasn't as big of a thing in the 1980s in sitcoms, the way it is today.


Except "Running" is more Sue Ann-heavy, with Cindy still more a supporting character, despite her being such a central part of the plot. It's like Sue Ann, Mrs. Garrett, and Mr. Bradley are the top stars of the episode, with Cindy on the 2nd tier.

I disagree. I suppose we need a line-count to be sure.... :lol:

Molly Parker definitely could have been a fully-realized character, but for me, the writing made her a cardboard cut-out. It's to Molly Ringwald's credit that she was able to deliver a good performance with not-so-great material. The feminist character they gave her was very one-note.

Well, at least they also had her being a humanitarian, environmentalist, and musician, so she wasn't just strictly a feminist caricature, lol.


They totally could have done more with Molly, given more time. Think how Molly Parker would have reacted, knowing the Eastland School Board was banning books. Think of her reaction on learning the new library was being dedicated in the name of a racist. (These types of roles went to Natalie).

Oo, those would have been great! And with the racist one, if they had had Molly's grandfather been a founding member of the KKK, since she was a humanitarian, that would have been really interesting to see; or Natalie's adopted grandfather, given she was Tootie's best friend, and Tootie could assure her she (Nat) couldn't help being chosen by a family that had that in its past, and it doesn't change her adopted family's love for her.


That is my video montage! :) The part with the NY journalist actually comes from the Nancy McKeon biography. I used as many sources on the Lost Girls that I could find. Unfortunately, there are others that I couldn't use, because the videos are not online. E! had an excellent documentary in 1999 that isn't available anywhere online, which talks about the Lost Girls as well.

I knew you had something to do with that! lol I could tell you were one of the ones doing a lot of the discussion in the comments. Great video! And yeah, how frustrating/sad that not all the FOL documentaries are available online.



I think Jo replaced Cindy, Nancy, Sue Ann and Molly, so in that sense, Nancy McKeon did replace her. But I see what you're saying. And I do agree that, strictly speaking, Jo replaced Cindy and Sue Ann, while the characters of Nancy and Molly were just dropped.

And I see your point. Yes of course she "replaced" them all in one sense.


I actually never noticed they don't refer to them by name during Seasons 2 or 3. Good catch! Well, now that you point it out, that bugs me, too. Still, I suppose we're lucky they brought them back at all. Continuity wasn't as big of a thing in the 1980s in sitcoms, the way it is today.

Yeah, sorry it's gonna bug you now, lol. But at least they are there. :)


I disagree. I suppose we need a line-count to be sure.... :lol:

lol, well, ya know what it is? It's taking into account that "Rough Housing" was such a HUGE Cindy show. If you think about it---and I didn't realize this until last night---in the entire 2nd act of the show, the only girls featured are Cindy and Blair! And Cindy's talk with Mrs. Garrett is so deep and long, it has to be split with a commercial! Interesting, Mrs. Garrett's first "heart-to-heart" talk with one of her girls may be her longest, lol.

Along with knowing how HUGE Cindy's role was in RH, Sue Ann just gets way more lines in "Running", despite the show being about she and Cindy. This is in large part due to the beginning scenes of the show. Sue Ann just gabs gabs gabs (lol) about the race, and training, yadda yadda yadda with Mr. Bradley and Mrs. Garrett et al., doing so much talking, and Cindy doesn't really say much at all. Sue Ann represents her like she's acting as an agent or promoter or something, lol.

Then in the "recreation house" (lol), again, Sue Ann gets most of the lines in that entire scene, and Cindy only has a few or a handful. It's not until the 2nd half of the show that Cindy and Sue Ann's parts are more neck-and-neck in equal time/lines. I would be happy to do a line count with you if you like. :lol:

All that said though, it is a big thrill for me, favoring Cindy the most from season 1, seeing Natalie start the chant of "Cindy, Cindy!" then Tootie and all the other girls joining in, all rallying and yelling her name " Cindy! Cindy!! CINDY! CINDY! CINDY!!" and screaming/cheering when Mr. Bradley says "Alright alright, Cindy it is!" :D

I just watched "Running" last night. And poor Felice...poor, poor Felice...if I were her, I believe I would have felt really unnecessary, unappreciated, uninteresting, and unwanted by the show when I read the script for this episode. She is such wallpaper in this one! Here is what I noticed:

~~Nancy does not appear until nearly 7 minutes into this episode. 7 minutes! The entire rest of the cast has been there for the whole opening scene, and then nearly 7 minutes in, Nancy just casually comes down the stairs for the last part of the scene, when she didn't even need to be there anyway. All she did was hear that Cindy was gonna run instead of Sue Ann, and she joined the other girls in cheering for Cindy. That is IT.

~~In the "recreation house" (my own little special name for that place they go into when they finish their run, lol), Nancy has one line. One line. ALL of the girls, the whole rest of the cast even, have multiple lines, and Nancy has ONE. "When I told Roger I was into exercise, he got excited." That's it!

~~Again, in the "recreation house" when Natalie and Nancy go to comfort Cindy, Cindy has most of the lines, with Natalie several, and Nancy just a few. Speaking of this scene, I always found it very telling that Natalie reveals what she, Cindy, Molly, and Tootie do when they're upset, which I love, but when she asks Nancy what she does, Nancy doesn't name an activity. She says "What does it matter?? We're talking about Cindy!" How very telling the most undeveloped, wallpapered character of the show doesn't get to even help her character one little bit by telling what she does when she gets upset, lol.

Nancy's only "contribution" to this episode is giving Roger a re-cap of Cindy and Sue Ann's fight, and, on a much lesser scale, aiding Blair when she's hit. That is ALL she does in this episode.

Alas, poor Felice!

I just went to "Running" on YouTube to look at any comments there, and I saw where you commented about the rooming assignments. It's actually impossible to say what the rooming assignments were because they fluctuated so much among the episodes. In "Rough Housing" Cindy seems to have her own private room (and it's even referred to as "her room"), but suddenly in "Running" she and Sue Ann are roommates. And while there are 2 beds in Blair's room in "Like Mother, Like Daughter" it is clear in "Running" that Blair has her own private room; which is credible, given how rich her family was. They could easily afford to get her "special treatment" to have her own private room.

Well, at least they also had her being a humanitarian, environmentalist, and musician, so she wasn't just strictly a feminist caricature, lol.

I don't think Molly Ringwald's talents included singing, and those musical numbers she did on the show with that out of tune guitar were not great, IMO. She would prove herself later on as a very talented actress, but I can't bring myself to call her a "musician" based on those scenes.

There should have been more to her character other than being "an activist". She did well with the character she was given, but the character itself was drawn very thin, and there were no scripts the first season where political activism were at the center of the plot, so there wasn't depth or nuance to what she was saying, just "Well *I* think..."

She would have had much better material to work with, if they had kept her on, and used her during some of the later episodes: ones that covered abortion, book banning, or any of the journalism episodes. Of course, that unfortunately never happened...


I knew you had something to do with that! lol I could tell you were one of the ones doing a lot of the discussion in the comments. Great video!

Thanks!


lol, well, ya know what it is? It's taking into account that "Rough Housing" was such a HUGE Cindy show. If you think about it---and I didn't realize this until last night---in the entire 2nd act of the show, the only girls featured are Cindy and Blair! And Cindy's talk with Mrs. Garrett is so deep and long, it has to be split with a commercial! Interesting, Mrs. Garrett's first "heart-to-heart" talk with one of her girls may be her longest, lol.

Excellent point! It really is a Cindy-heavy episode.


Along with knowing how HUGE Cindy's role was in RH, Sue Ann just gets way more lines in "Running", despite the show being about she and Cindy. This is in large part due to the beginning scenes of the show. Sue Ann just gabs gabs gabs (lol) about the race, and training, yadda yadda yadda with Mr. Bradley and Mrs. Garrett et al., doing so much talking, and Cindy doesn't really say much at all. Sue Ann represents her like she's acting as an agent or promoter or something, lol.

Yep. I just did a line count, and here are the total lines for that episode:
Mr. Bradley: 67
Mrs. Garrett: 64
Sue Ann: 55
Cindy: 31
Blair: 25
Tootie: 25
Molly: 20
Natalie: 17
Nancy: 10

But even though Cindy gets much fewer lines, the episode revolves around her and Sue Ann's fight, with Mr. Bradley and Mrs. Garrett providing additional conflict.


Then in the "recreation house" (lol), again, Sue Ann gets most of the lines in that entire scene, and Cindy only has a few or a handful. It's not until the 2nd half of the show that Cindy and Sue Ann's parts are more neck-and-neck in equal time/lines.

I think that building was supposed to be the gym? Or another athletic building.


All that said though, it is a big thrill for me, favoring Cindy the most from season 1, seeing Natalie start the chant of "Cindy, Cindy!" then Tootie and all the other girls joining in, all rallying and yelling her name " Cindy! Cindy!! CINDY! CINDY! CINDY!!" and screaming/cheering when Mr. Bradley says "Alright alright, Cindy it is!" :D

And yet, ironically, the following year, they can't even remember her name. ;)


I just watched "Running" last night. And poor Felice...poor, poor Felice...if I were her, I believe I would have felt really unnecessary, unappreciated, uninteresting, and unwanted by the show when I read the script for this episode. She is such wallpaper in this one!

Yes! If you were told you were one of the lead actresses, and you got a script like this, with almost nothing to do, it would be incredibly frustrating. But this is only one example of many. It's a good example, though.


In the "recreation house" (my own little special name for that place they go into when they finish their run, lol), Nancy has one line. One line. ALL of the girls, the whole rest of the cast even, have multiple lines, and Nancy has ONE. "When I told Roger I was into exercise, he got excited." That's it!

Well, in that scene she also does get the line, "Let's see a fast finish!" when Mrs. G comes in. But your point is otherwise spot-on. This was someone who received top billing on the show (among the girls), and the only lines they give her are background cheering (for Cindy and Mrs. Garrett), background catty noises (in the rec building), a line about Roger, and a brief scene on the phone with Roger. Mindy Cohn is exactly right when she says Felice got a bum deal.


~~Again, in the "recreation house" when Natalie and Nancy go to comfort Cindy, Cindy has most of the lines, with Natalie several, and Nancy just a few. Speaking of this scene, I always found it very telling that Natalie reveals what she, Cindy, Molly, and Tootie do when they're upset, which I love, but when she asks Nancy what she does, Nancy doesn't name an activity. She says "What does it matter?? We're talking about Cindy!"

We already know what she does when she's upset: talks with Roger, or goes to see Roger. Roger was her life back then.


I just went to "Running" on YouTube to look at any comments there, and I saw where you commented about the rooming assignments. It's actually impossible to say what the rooming assignments were because they fluctuated so much among the episodes. In "Rough Housing" Cindy seems to have her own private room (and it's even referred to as "her room"), but suddenly in "Running" she and Sue Ann are roommates.

If you look carefully in "Rough Housing", you will see that there are two side-by-side desks in that room, indicating that there are two students sharing that room. On a coat-rack in the corner of the room, there are a number of Midwestern straw hats, which are not ball caps like Cindy would wear, but something a farm girl would wear. These are obviously Sue Ann's. I assume her bed was just further over in the room, just not shown.


And while there are 2 beds in Blair's room in "Like Mother, Like Daughter" it is clear in "Running" that Blair has her own private room; which is credible, given how rich her family was. They could easily afford to get her "special treatment" to have her own private room.

I assumed that must have been Nancy's bed, but I suppose there's no way to tell for sure.

I don't think Molly Ringwald's talents included singing, and those musical numbers she did on the show with that out of tune guitar were not great, IMO. She would prove herself later on as a very talented actress, but I can't bring myself to call her a "musician" based on those scenes.

Well she was "the musician" among the girls, despite only performing (lol) two songs. The potential was there to include that as a bigger part of her character had she remained.



Yup. I just did a line count, and here are the total lines for that episode:
Mr. Bradley: 67
Mrs. Garrett: 64
Sue Ann: 55
Cindy: 31
Blair: 25
Tootie: 25
Molly: 20
Natalie: 17
Nancy: 10

Wow, Mr. Bradley had the most lines? I would've guessed Sue Ann or Mrs. Garrett---but Edna was only 3 behind. Then Sue Ann only has 9 less lines than Mrs. Garrett, but Cindy is way back at 24 lines less than Sue Ann. And that makes Cindy only 6 lines ahead of Blair, and even Tootie? Wow...I wouldn't have guessed Tootie had the same as Blair.

This also brings up though, what constitutes "a line"? Do you count each sentence a character speaks, or do you count what they speak between other characters? I choose the latter. For example, When Cindy complains to Natalie and Nancy about Sue Ann, I wouldn't count each of those several sentences as "a line", but I would count them all as "one line" since it's only her speaking between Natalie's "Cindy, either let me in or cut it out!" and Nancy's "Listen, Cindy..." lines which "bookend" Cindy's chunk of speaking there.



But even though Cindy gets much fewer lines, the episode revolves around her and Sue Ann's fight, with Mr. Bradley and Mrs. Garrett providing additional conflict.

Yup, which still makes for an awesome episode. :-)


I think that building was supposed to be the gym? Or another athletic building.

Yeah, it's their gym because it says "GYM" in vertical letters on the door, it's just that it doesn't look anything like an actual gym. :lol: It looks more like the athletic equipment supply area, lol.


And yet, ironically, the following year, they can't even remember her name. ;)

Haha! Yes, which you will notice next time you watch, lol.

Speaking of that, I saw someone post here some years ago that what bugged them about the Lost Girls cameos in seasons 2 and 3 was that nothing the Lost Girls said was characteristic to them as individual characters; any girl could have said those lines. And except for Nancy's Roger-ness, that's unfortunately and annoyingly right.


Well, in that scene she also does get the line, "Let's see a fast finish!" when Mrs. G comes in.

Well, here's where we quibble, lol, because I don't cound "crowd lines" as individual written scripted lines. I assume the script says something like "Mrs. Garrett comes wogging into the gym, and all the girls cheer her on with support.", something like that. We'd have to ask an actress or staff member to find out for sure, lol, but I doubt lines were actually written there.


Mindy Cohn is exactly right when she says Felice got a bum deal.

The bum-est! But, at least it's nice to hear Felice discuss how it turned out to be like a blessing in disguise.


We already know what she does when she's upset: talks with Roger, or goes to see Roger. Roger was her life back then.

But what if she's upset with Roger? You can assume she talks to him if it's not about/with him, but I like how Natalie lists individual activities of most of the other girls (which, interestingly, includes two of the lost girls, Cindy and Molly). But still Nancy doesn't name what she does, and that's what's telling and annoying to me, lol.


If you look carefully in "Rough Housing", you will see that there are two side-by-side desks in that room, indicating that there are two students sharing that room. On a coat-rack in the corner of the room, there are a number of Midwestern straw hats, which are not ball caps like Cindy would wear, but something a farm girl would wear. These are obviously Sue Ann's. I assume her bed was just further over in the room, just not shown.

Ah, all good observations. Well then Sue Ann should have said "She's locked herself in our room", not "her room", lol. ;)


I assumed that must have been Nancy's bed, but I suppose there's no way to tell for sure.

Okay, I thought Sue Ann says "Blair, do you mind if I move in with you for a while?" indicating Blair definitely had her own room, but I see now on YouTube she said do you mind if I move "in here" for a while. So, if that is Blair and Nancy's room, well either she asked Nancy first and got the okay, or it's just "too bad" for Nancy, she's got another roommate for a while, lol.

Well she was "the musician" among the girls, despite only performing (lol) two songs. The potential was there to include that as a bigger part of her character had she remained.

Well, both Tootie and Natalie sang in later Eastland episodes of the show ("Green-Eyed Monster", etc), and much later, Jo played piano and Blair sang. So they were all "musicians" in that sense, but I see what you're saying.

But Molly Ringwald was IMO not a good singer at that age, despite having recorded a Jazz album as a child. And so I would not have wanted her to continue those numbers on the show. She could have done anything else except sing.


Wow, Mr. Bradley had the most lines? I would've guessed Sue Ann or Mrs. Garrett---but Edna was only 3 behind. Then Sue Ann only has 9 less lines than Mrs. Garrett, but Cindy is way back at 24 lines less than Sue Ann. And that makes Cindy only 6 lines ahead of Blair, and even Tootie? Wow...I wouldn't have guessed Tootie had the same as Blair.

This also brings up though, what constitutes "a line"? Do you count each sentence a character speaks, or do you count what they speak between other characters? I choose the latter. For example, When Cindy complains to Natalie and Nancy about Sue Ann, I wouldn't count each of those several sentences as "a line", but I would count them all as "one line" since it's only her speaking between Natalie's "Cindy, either let me in or cut it out!" and Nancy's "Listen, Cindy..." lines which "bookend" Cindy's chunk of speaking there.

I counted each time the character spoke, until the next character spoke, since that's how it would have been written in the script. Sometimes the characters had several sentences in a row, but that still would have been one line, until the next character spoke.


Yup, which still makes for an awesome episode. :-)

One of my favorites!


Yeah, it's their gym because it says "GYM" in vertical letters on the door, it's just that it doesn't look anything like an actual gym. :lol: It looks more like the athletic equipment supply area, lol.

I totallt agree that it doesn't look like a modern gym. It might, however, resemble an old-fashioned girls' school rec room, or a gym outbuilding.


Speaking of that, I saw someone post here some years ago that what bugged them about the Lost Girls cameos in seasons 2 and 3 was that nothing the Lost Girls said was characteristic to them as individual characters; any girl could have said those lines. And except for Nancy's Roger-ness, that's unfortunately and annoyingly right.

So true! Well, we're just lucky Cindy got to wear her baseball cap and Sue Ann got to wear her trademark ribbon in her hair. Without that, they would have been stripped of basically everything that made them them.

Although, I've got to say, Sue Ann was kinda gossipy, so it made sense that they brought her back as someone who gossiped a lot.


Well, here's where we quibble, lol, because I don't cound "crowd lines" as individual written scripted lines. I assume the script says something like "Mrs. Garrett comes wogging into the gym, and all the girls cheer her on with support.", something like that. We'd have to ask an actress or staff member to find out for sure, lol, but I doubt lines were actually written there.

I see your point, but "Let's see a fast finish!" isn't just "C'mon!" or "Woo!"... it's pretty specific. It seems like a line that would be scripted.


The bum-est! But, at least it's nice to hear Felice discuss how it turned out to be like a blessing in disguise

Both Julie Anne and Felice said it was a blessing in disguise, but I think that is really a testament to the fact that they are both very positive, upbeat ladies who can find the silver lining in an otherwise dark cloud. Mindy has also said that Julie Pie, too, has a "great head on her shoulders".


But what if she's upset with Roger?

Then she talks to Mrs G, as seen in "Flash Flood". ;)


Ah, all good observations. Well then Sue Ann should have said "She's locked herself in our room", not "her room", lol. ;)

True, but anyone might have said 'her room' when talking about someone locking themselves in a bedroom.


Okay, I thought Sue Ann says "Blair, do you mind if I move in with you for a while?" indicating Blair definitely had her own room, but I see now on YouTube she said do you mind if I move "in here" for a while. So, if that is Blair and Nancy's room, well either she asked Nancy first and got the okay, or it's just "too bad" for Nancy, she's got another roommate for a while, lol.

Well, as we have observed, Nancy didn't get much to say in this episode, so why would it surprise us that she got no say in the loss of her room? ;)

Alternately, Blair has her own room and Nancy sleeps where?

But the following year, Blair gets assigned to room with Jo, and she doesn't seem at all concerned that she's sharing a room...if she was used to getting her own room, wouldn't she have mentioned the fact that she had to share a room? ("Daddy says I have to have a roommate this year." *pout*).

So it seems likely that Blair found it natural to have a roommate, and the best candidate for a roommate would have been Nancy.

But Molly Ringwald was IMO not a good singer at that age, despite having recorded a Jazz album as a child. And so I would not have wanted her to continue those numbers on the show. She could have done anything else except sing.

I've heard worse, but I've heard better, lol. But clearly Molly Parker is an arena-selling-out mega-music star in the first steps of her career, because, not only does everyone in the dorm love her singing, but the audience wildly claps and cheers. LOL ;)


I counted each time the character spoke, until the next character spoke, since that's how it would have been written in the script. Sometimes the characters had several sentences in a row, but that still would have been one line, until the next character spoke.

Okay good, you're on my page; the right page. lol :p I know some people would count each sentence, which is incorrect in "lines" in acting.


One of my favorites!

Mine too! I remember seeing "Running" as a little by in re-runs and thinking that fight and Blair's punch were like the most dramatic things I ever saw, lol.

And despite Nancy's unfortunate blandness in so many episodes, I also as a little boy found her umbrella gag in "Flash Flood" just about the funniest thing ever. :lol:


So true! Well, we're just lucky Cindy got to wear her baseball cap and Sue Ann got to wear her trademark ribbon in her hair. And Cindy's braids, don't forget her trademark braids! :) (which Sue Ann wrongly refers to as "pig tails" in "Running", but if she had said "braids" her insult wouldn't have made sense, LOL).


I see your point, but "Let's see a fast finish!" isn't just "C'mon!" or "Woo!"... it's pretty specific. It seems like a line that would be scripted.

Okay, after YouTubing it, I will say there's a good chance you could be right. I just never noticed before because Nancy here is, as per usual, such wallpaper. lol You've brought up before that the writers wrote her out of "Molly's Holiday" halfway through the show---not only her, but Cindy as well, of which I know you're aware, but it's actually kind of before the first half of the show is even over, ugh! I want more Cindy, why couldn't the writers have had their plane leave 15 minutes later?? lol

I also wish Blair had had a separate story B or something so that Cindy could have been the one to talk to Molly from experience and share this with her; but, it is very touching when Blair bares her soul to Molly and admits in her own way she envied the love Molly's father is trying to give Molly.


Both Julie Anne and Felice said it was a blessing in disguise, but I think that is really a testament to the fact that they are both very positive, upbeat ladies who can find the silver lining in an otherwise dark cloud.

They seem pretty genuine too, like with Felice's "thank God" it didn't work out because she got to go to college, etc. So yeah, I guess it's bittersweet for them; sucked at the time, and that they're not regulars in all the seasons on DVD that they may like to be, but they got to pursue other things; and they still, in Cindy and Sue Ann's cases, have their fans (maybe Nancy has some who have her as their favorite too, and of course Molly has fans of a whole 'nother fan base now! lol)


Well, as we have observed, Nancy didn't get much to say in this episode, so why would it surprise us that she got no say in the loss of her room? ;)

haha!

And did you notice what wallpaper Nancy is again in "Dope" in the surprise inspection scene? She has no lines there. Mr. Bradley has already inspected her belongings and she says nothing except cries out in protest when Mrs. Garrett upbraids him for this surprise inspection. Then when Mr. Bradley says to them to go with him to put the confiscated stuff away, Nancy silently follows him, while Nat and Toot stay with Mrs. Garrett. She contributes nothing to the scene! Honestly, what was with these writers??

And it's so interesting at the end of "Dope", the final show of season 1, when Mrs. Garrett says, "Well, at least our gang's together again", and it's like a prediction for what will happen with the start of the new season, as here we see the future classic Eastland gang of Mrs. Garret and her 4 girls, Blair, Natalie, Tootie, and---Sue Ann?? Well, replace her with Jo, and there ya go, lol. An interesting little "sort-of omen" there.


But the following year, Blair gets assigned to room with Jo, and she doesn't seem at all concerned that she's sharing a room...if she was used to getting her own room, wouldn't she have mentioned the fact that she had to share a room? ("Daddy says I have to have a roommate this year." *pout*).

Ah, but she actually is concerned: "I-I just can't sleep in a room with three other girls!"

So maybe she could sleep in a room with one other girl, but not three---until Mrs. Garrett makes her. :lol:

So it seems likely that Blair found it natural to have a roommate, and the best candidate for a roommate would have been Nancy.[/QUOTE]

But clearly Molly Parker is an arena-selling-out mega-music star in the first steps of her career, because, not only does everyone in the dorm love her singing, but the audience wildly claps and cheers. LOL ;)

The audience knew how to read the APPLAUSE sign. But a little work and she could have been good. And they could have at least tuned her guitar. Geez.


I remember seeing "Running" as a little by in re-runs and thinking that fight and Blair's punch were like the most dramatic things I ever saw, lol.

Yep, same here.


And despite Nancy's unfortunate blandness in so many episodes, I also as a little boy found her umbrella gag in "Flash Flood" just about the funniest thing ever. :lol:

She got some cute scenes. Short, but cute. It's a pity they couldn't find more for her to do. And with Blair/Tootie becoming a hit, they were never motivated to do so.


Okay, after YouTubing it, I will say there's a good chance you could be right. I just never noticed before because Nancy here is, as per usual, such wallpaper. lol You've brought up before that the writers wrote her out of "Molly's Holiday" halfway through the show---not only her, but Cindy as well, of which I know you're aware, but it's actually kind of before the first half of the show is even over, ugh! I want more Cindy, why couldn't the writers have had their plane leave 15 minutes later?? lol

I think the producers were actually experimenting, here, with having fewer girls on camera at the same time. Network executives thought the ratings must have had something to do with there being "ten, twelve girls" in the cast. Of course, it had more to do with being scheduled against The Incredible Hulk and Fantasy Island, but it's clear the network wanted the cast trimmed down. So near the end of the first season, we already see that begin to happen.

Notice at no point do Blair and Tootie get sent away for part of an episode. The network recognized they were quickly becoming popular with fans. (There were even promo images focused on the hit characters of the show (http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/season-1-pictured-key-art-photo-by-nbc-nbcu-photo-bank-news-photo/141439444)). Sue Ann, too, had plenty of lines. But everyone else sort of became wallpaper, at one point or another. In "Flash Flood" (production code 112), Tootie and Blair go to the stables, and Blair develops a crush on Mr. Bradley, with Tootie cracking wise.

And in "Dope", the last episode produced and aired, revolves around Blair and Sue Ann, with Tootie and Natalie providing comic relief. Nancy again doesn't appear until seven minutes into the episode, just like in "Running". Cindy and Molly have a B-storyline about setting up the stereo.


And did you notice what wallpaper Nancy is again in "Dope" in the surprise inspection scene? She has no lines there. Mr. Bradley has already inspected her belongings and she says nothing except cries out in protest when Mrs. Garrett upbraids him for this surprise inspection. Then when Mr. Bradley says to them to go with him to put the confiscated stuff away, Nancy silently follows him, while Nat and Toot stay with Mrs. Garrett. She contributes nothing to the scene! Honestly, what was with these writers??

That's it exactly. By this point in the season, I think the producers were already paring down Felice's part so it would be easier for the viewers the next season when she wouldn't be back. They were obviously testing to see if a six-girl show would work better than a seven. Maybe even four, judging from that final scene.


And it's so interesting at the end of "Dope", the final show of season 1, when Mrs. Garrett says, "Well, at least our gang's together again", and it's like a prediction for what will happen with the start of the new season, as here we see the future classic Eastland gang of Mrs. Garret and her 4 girls, Blair, Natalie, Tootie, and---Sue Ann?? Well, replace her with Jo, and there ya go, lol. An interesting little "sort-of omen" there.

Yes. The writing was on the wall. But the girls didn't know, yet. Lisa says she didn't know until they sat down for the table reading for Season 2, which would have been during the summer of 1980, ironically around the time that "Molly's Holiday" and "Dope" first aired.

The audience knew how to read the APPLAUSE sign.

Yeah, I was just being sarcastic, lol.


I think the producers were actually experimenting, here, with having fewer girls on camera at the same time.

They did the same thing a few episodes before with "Adoption". It's the exact same group of "our girls" discussing Natalie's adoption, with, again (but first before "Molly's Holiday" this time) Cindy and Nancy being left out of the scene. And that's such a glaring omission to me, since they're friends of Natalie's, even more-so Cindy than Nancy. At least in MH even when they leave the show so early, they still get to be in the bonding scene with Molly.


the ratings...had more to do with being scheduled against The Incredible Hulk and Fantasy Island

Yeah, I never realized that until recently. It's a shame they didn't realize that was the main problem, instead of thinking "Gee, there's too many girls here. Let's get rid of a few and see if that doesn't get them any higher in the ratings than the very bottom of the barrel."


Notice at no point do Blair and Tootie get sent away for part of an episode. The network recognized they were quickly becoming popular with fans. (There were even promo images focused on the hit characters of the show (http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/season-1-pictured-key-art-photo-by-nbc-nbcu-photo-bank-news-photo/141439444)).

Oh Blair and Tootie (and Natalie) were definitely Eastland's "It Girls" from very early on. The fans just latched onto them and never let go; obviously, as that continued for 8 more seasons. :)

IMO "I.Q." is where it's really clear Blair and Tootie are the front-runners with the audience. The audience goes crazy over Tootie's sassy line "You're right, Blair; it's not you either!", and Blair gets a pretty big laugh with "Well, you don't see me getting all upset when people tell me how gorgeous I am!" :lol:

And very cool promo art!


Yes. The writing was on the wall. But the girls didn't know, yet. Lisa says she didn't know until they sat down for the table reading for Season 2, which would have been during the summer of 1980, ironically around the time that "Molly's Holiday" and "Dope" first aired.

Hmm, I find that hard to believe. And I've noticed with other shows it's not uncommon for actors to "mis-remember" things 30 years later. After all, that is perfectly natural, lol. I'm not saying you're wrong, what I mean is that with more than half the cast fired that summer, and some of the girls being friends, you would just think that somehow Lisa (and Mindy and Kim) would have found out that summer. But, perhaps Lisa is right after all and somehow, in some way, the three of them got to the first table reading not having heard anything about the "Eastland Exodus".

Years ago I used to think maybe it was more like "Survivor" where the girls were all called together (like in the common room to hear Mr. Ramsay's talk in "Overachieving"), and called out one by one who was cut from the show, lol.

They did the same thing a few episodes before with "Adoption". It's the exact same group of "our girls" discussing Natalie's adoption, with, again (but first before "Molly's Holiday" this time) Cindy and Nancy being left out of the scene. And that's such a glaring omission to me, since they're friends of Natalie's, even more-so Cindy than Nancy. At least in MH even when they leave the show so early, they still get to be in the bonding scene with Molly.

Yeah, that actually is even out of character: who's more likely to comfort Natalie? Snobby Blair, or close friend Cindy? I think it's clear in those last, say, five episodes of the first season that there was a shift in the writing: no way was "Flash Flood" written with Blair in mind, and Nancy's "big part" is the umbrella gag; in "Running", Nancy is practically wallpaper; in "Dope", Nancy's big part is her coming down the stairs, upset that she didn't get in to 'The Group'... a sign of things to come? :lol:

Then Mrs. G takes her outside to get a flower for her hair. Her last lines are right before she's taken out to pasture.

As you pointed out, Nancy's last scene, before Felice is fired, is her standing/sitting in the background, with no lines. Then she's sent downstairs, as Mrs. G says something like, "well, at least our group is all together!" as Tootie, Natalie, Blair and Sue Ann smile. The scene is set up for the next season, with four girls.

What is strange, though, is that Julie Anne was the last girl to be fired, according to the 2006 documentary. At some point, the decision was made to fire Julie, and keep Julie Anne. Then that plan, too, was apparently scrapped when Brandon Tartikoff saw that sappy Hallmark commercial with Nancy McKeon in it.


Yeah, I never realized that until recently. It's a shame they didn't realize that was the main problem, instead of thinking "Gee, there's too many girls here. Let's get rid of a few and see if that doesn't get them any higher in the ratings than the very bottom of the barrel."

At some point, they did, because they moved FOL to right after DS for the second season. With a good lead-in, and weak competition on ABC and CBS, the show became a top 25 hit... but every source I've seen puts the fault on the large cast, failing to mention moving the show to a better timeslot.



IMO "I.Q." is where it's really clear Blair and Tootie are the front-runners with the audience. The audience goes crazy over Tootie's sassy line "You're right, Blair; it's not you either!", and Blair gets a pretty big laugh with "Well, you don't see me getting all upset when people tell me how gorgeous I am!" :lol:

Both girls were brilliant in that episode. I agree they proved their comedic value in those scenes. Tootie's line in that scene is probably the biggest audience reaction in that whole season. I've seen it maybe 30 times, and just the way she says it is funny every time.



Hmm, I find that hard to believe. And I've noticed with other shows it's not uncommon for actors to "mis-remember" things 30 years later. After all, that is perfectly natural, lol. I'm not saying you're wrong, what I mean is that with more than half the cast fired that summer, and some of the girls being friends, you would just think that somehow Lisa (and Mindy and Kim) would have found out that summer. But, perhaps Lisa is right after all and somehow, in some way, the three of them got to the first table reading not having heard anything about the "Eastland Exodus".

I know what you're saying, and it's hard to believe there weren't rumors buzzing around, especially with the last few episodes being so Blair/Sue Ann/Tootie heavy, but Lisa says she wasn't aware, and I have to take her word for that. In those days, stars had very little control over shows. Even Charlotte Rae says had no say over who was to stay/go, and she was the star of the show.


Years ago I used to think maybe it was more like "Survivor" where the girls were all called together (like in the common room to hear Mr. Ramsay's talk in "Overachieving"), and called out one by one who was cut from the show, lol.

Years ago, I imagined it that way, as well. I don't know if that would be better or worse than the way it was done.

Over in the "Step By Step" thread, the actor who originally played Mark recently posted that he found out he had been replaced in the worst possible way: by showing up to the show's Christmas party after he had been told the party had been 'suddenly cancelled', and meeting his replacement at the party, with everyone acting awkwardly. Ouch!


[Edited because I cannot spell]

Aha!

From the Elyria Chronicle Telegram, July 18, 1980:

Q. It seems to me I've seen Lisa Whelchel, who plays Blair on "Facts of Life", before. What has she been in?

A. For one thing, "Diff'rent Strokes", from which "Facts of Life" spun off. Lisa's first TV job was in "The New Mickey Mouse Club" three years ago when she was 13. There have been guest spots on "The Mary Tyler Moore Show", and "Family", and two movies: "The Magician of Lublin" and "The Double McGuffin".

"Facts" will have a face-lift for fall. Mrs. Garrett (star Charlotte Rae) will move to a house off the school campus, taking four girls with her: Lisa, Felice Schachter (Nancy), Julie Piekarski (Sue Ann), and Kim Fields (Tootie).

(emphasis mine)

So, a month after "Dope" aired, there had already been a public announcement that the cast was being cut in half. Of course, this wasn't the correct line-up of girls, as we know, but the rumors were already spreading, although the show wouldn't debut until November.

Yeah, that actually is even out of character: who's more likely to comfort Natalie? Snobby Blair, or close friend Cindy?

Well, as much as I miss my Cindy in that scene, I actually can see Blair naturally being there for Natalie and wanting to take the younger insecure Natalie under her wing a bit. It's clear from her reaction in the classroom that she (Blair) is genuinely astonished at Natalie's attitude and talking back to Mr. Bradley, as is further evidenced by her later line to Mrs. Garrett "We've never seen Natalie so upset"; which is another great insight into Natalie's character as well...the jolly jokester, always smiling and ready with a gag, suddenly getting angry and yelling at people with what seems to be no provocation.

But yeah, Cindy's one line in that whole first part of the show? "Adopted??" lol...come on, writers!


no way was "Flash Flood" written with Blair in mind

I guess on this point we'll agree to disagree, because I still say it was, lol. It does make sense to me that Blair, the richest, most affluent and privileged of the girls, would be the only one to have her very own freaking horse at school with her, lol. The spoiled princess, indeed! I just wish they had mentioned Chestnut somewhere in seasons 2, 3, or 4 for continuity there. :)

But would it have been too much trouble for them to have written in a lizard or a snake at the stables for Cindy? :lol:

Although, again, as a little boy watching, the whole drenched-Cindy-from-the-basement thing was such a dramatic moment! (just ask Molly Parker upon hearing Cindy could have been electrocuted! lol!)


in "Dope", Nancy's big part is her coming down the stairs, upset that she didn't get in to 'The Group'... a sign of things to come? :lol:

:lol: Too tunny, but too fitting!

Yeah, it's kind of funny that Nancy's final speaking part is a little heart-to-heart with Mrs. Garrett.


What is strange, though, is that Julie Anne was the last girl to be fired, according to the 2006 documentary. At some point, the decision was made to fire Julie, and keep Julie Anne. Then that plan, too, was apparently scrapped when Brandon Tartikoff saw that sappy Hallmark commercial with Nancy McKeon in it.

I know, it's all too interesting! How strange they first chose to get rid of the least-used one, but then the most-used of the Lost Girls right after that.

Cindy was this close to making the cut, darn it! :(


At some point, they did, because they moved FOL to right after DS for the second season. With a good lead-in, and weak competition on ABC and CBS, the show became a top 25 hit... but every source I've seen puts the fault on the large cast, failing to mention moving the show to a better timeslot.

Good point, and I wish they would credit that and not only it being "too large" (which it never was) of a cast. I wonder if it was the largest cast at that time, though? "The Brady Bunch" had 9 regulars before that...


Tootie's line in that scene is probably the biggest audience reaction in that whole season.

I think you're right!



Aha!

From the Elyria Chronicle Telegram, July 18, 1980:

"Facts" will have a face-lift for fall. Mrs. Garrett (star Charlotte Rae) will move to a house off the school campus, taking four girls with her: Lisa, Felice Schachter (Nancy), Julie Piekarski (Sue Ann), and Kim Fields (Tootie).

(emphasis mine)

So, a month after "Dope" aired, there had already been a public announcement that the cast was being cut in half. Of course, this wasn't the correct line-up of girls, as we know, but the rumors were already spreading, although the show wouldn't debut until November.

Oh WOW! This is an amazing find! So there was word! Maybe some of the girls (i.e., Lisa, Mindy) thought it was just gossip or something. Then again, we don't know when they started taping season 2 (and they didn't start airing until November 19th, almost Thanksgiving, wow).

But, Blair, Nancy, Sue Ann, and Tootie?? I wonder how many viewers/fans read that and went "Nancy??" lol

I also wonder how many of the Lost Girls may have gotten wind of that, and believed it if they hadn't heard anything else before then!

What a different foursome that would have been. And ya just can't imagine FOL without a resident jokester, i.e. good ol' Nat.

Cindy's one line in that whole first part of the show? "Adopted??" lol...come on, writers!

LOL! Exactly! When Julie Anne Haddock got one whole line in the first act, yet was present for the whole scene, she had to wonder, "why am I even in this scene?"


I guess on this point we'll agree to disagree, because I still say it was, lol. It does make sense to me that Blair, the richest, most affluent and privileged of the girls, would be the only one to have her very own freaking horse at school with her, lol. The spoiled princess, indeed! I just wish they had mentioned Chestnut somewhere in seasons 2, 3, or 4 for continuity there. :)

I don't think at any point is it said that Chestnut is Blair's horse. And Blair is too snooty for stable-work. Riding, sure. Clean-up? No way!


But would it have been too much trouble for them to have written in a lizard or a snake at the stables for Cindy? :lol:

She was too busy getting electrocuted in the basement. ;)


Yeah, it's kind of funny that Nancy's final speaking part is a little heart-to-heart with Mrs. Garrett.

I find it telling that they don't even include the scene where Mrs. G puts a flower in her hair. Even that brief scene was too big, so it apparently happens off-screen. We're told Nancy is going to get a flower in her hair.


I know, it's all too interesting! How strange they first chose to get rid of the least-used one, but then the most-used of the Lost Girls right after that.

Yeah, one moment they're using Julie Pie in as many scenes as possible, and then, BAM, gone. It must have been the biggest shock for her.


Cindy was this close to making the cut, darn it! :(

Yeah, and that was due to Brandon Tartikoff's suggestion to hire Nancy McKeon. Which worked out well for the show, but had to have been devastating for all four Lost Girls. First they're told that the cast is too large, so they're being fired, then they see a new girl being added. Then they're asked back for three lines per episode, for select episodes. It's a credit to their work ethic and professionalism that they agreed to do those episodes, and did them well. I suppose they were happy to get the work, but I can see why Molly Ringwald felt humiliated: to go from a major role to a day player must have been such a let-down.


Good point, and I wish they would credit that and not only it being "too large" (which it never was) of a cast. I wonder if it was the largest cast at that time, though? "The Brady Bunch" had 9 regulars before that...

Eight is Enough (1977-1981) had a larger cast at that time, with ten cast members (or, the same size, if you consider the four Miss Mahoney episodes). And it was a hit show. St. Elsewhere had a massive cast in 1982, far exceeding any other show at that time. Cheers had a similar-sized cast on NBC just a few years after that.


Oh WOW! This is an amazing find!

Thank you! :)

So there was word! Maybe some of the girls (i.e., Lisa, Mindy) thought it was just gossip or something. Then again, we don't know when they started taping season 2 (and they didn't start airing until November 19th, almost Thanksgiving, wow).

Thanks to a hard-working IMDBer named Cerelle, we do (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078610/board/thread/221733750?d=221733750#221733750) know the taping dates, after all! :) The writers' strike of 1980 affected the taping of the episodes, so the show didn't premiere until November. "The New Girl, part one" was not taped until October. Rumors had been swirling around in newspapers since July!


But, Blair, Nancy, Sue Ann, and Tootie?? I wonder how many viewers/fans read that and went "Nancy??" lol

I also wonder how many of the Lost Girls may have gotten wind of that, and believed it if they hadn't heard anything else before then!

No way of knowing, I guess. It must have really sucked, hearing all sorts of things... and then... you finally hear that the show is entering production again, but you're not in it. :( Poor Molly, Julie Pie, Julie Anne, and Felice.

BTW, I found all sorts of interesting early FOL-related articles while researching. Here's a sneak peak:

[Hope I did this right] Can you spot the (semi) mistake? It's a mistake, but not really a mistake...

I don't think at any point is it said that Chestnut is Blair's horse. And Blair is too snooty for stable-work. Riding, sure. Clean-up? No way!

Ah...see, to me, it's implied that Chestnut is Blair's horse. You're right she technically doesn't say he's her horse, but IMO it's implied that he is; I guess each viewer can decide if he is or isn't. And yes, I'm sure the stable/hired hands did the stable work, Blair just did the riding! lol


She was too busy getting electrocuted in the basement. ;)

lol, yup, which also a big off-screen event to my little boy mind seeing it as a kid. The way she was completely SOAKED and poured the gushing water from her shoes, lol...and don't you just love Charlotte Rae's flubbing of her line after that bit, when the lights go off?: "Oh no, not the electrility too!" lol! (my emphasis)


I find it telling that they don't even include the scene where Mrs. G puts a flower in her hair.

My sister and I found that line of Mrs. Garrett's hilarious when we watched this episode several years ago. It's just soooooooo 1970s, lol. :lol:


Yeah, one moment they're using Julie Pie in as many scenes as possible, and then, BAM, gone. It must have been the biggest shock for her.

Agreed! She had become such a main character by that point. Even in the opening theme the "top 3" characters, Blair, Sue Ann, and Tootie, get their own interstitial scene; Blair and Sue Ann are walking together and Tootie skates into them, making them drop their books. That is the only scene in the opening that features any of the girls outside of all 7 of them together (minus the girls mowing down Mr. Bradley as they run into the school, which has the other 6 but not Blair). Also, when the girls are all gabbing at Mrs. Garrett, it is Blair and Sue Ann who have their own separate "action", making a late entrance to join Cindy at Mrs. Garrett's side; and this was taped before episode 5, so they must have seen big things for Sue Ann Weaver early on.


First they're told that the cast is too large, so they're being fired, then they see a new girl being added.

That must have really sucked, especially for Julie P.!


Then they're asked back for three lines per episode, for select episodes.

And "general, non-character-specified" lines, at that!

And no names! ;) :(


It's a credit to their work ethic and professionalism that they agreed to do those episodes, and did them well. I suppose they were happy to get the work, but I can see why Molly Ringwald felt humiliated: to go from a major role to a day player must have been such a let-down.

Yeah, that was a real credit, particularly seeing as they were teenagers.

Since Molly found it such a horrible experience and utter humiliation, I wonder why she did it? Was she somehow contractually obligated? Did she have to? Did she want any kind of work even if it was humiliating? Was she encouraged/goaded by her parents or her agent? Hmmmmm....


Eight is Enough (1977-1981) had a larger cast at that time, with ten cast members (or, the same size, if you consider the four Miss Mahoney episodes). And it was a hit show. St. Elsewhere had a massive cast in 1982, far exceeding any other show at that time. Cheers had a similar-sized cast on NBC just a few years after that.

"Cheers" started off with 5 (6 if you count Cliff, who wasn't a contracted regular at the show's start) but gradually grew, which felt natural. And "St. Elsewhere" was an hour-long, and a drama, so it gets a pass. But FOL definitely has no excuse with the pre-dating "Eight is Enough" having had 10 cast members and lasting 3 years! Sorry Warren Littlefield, you'll have to do better than the ol' "cast was too big" theory. ;)


Thanks to a hard-working IMDBer named Cerelle, we do (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078610/board/thread/221733750?d=221733750#221733750) know the taping dates, after all! :) The writers' strike of 1980 affected the taping of the episodes, so the show didn't premiere until November. "The New Girl, part one" was not taped until October. Rumors had been swirling around in newspapers since July!

Oh wow---so surely some of those girls must have heard something! lol


BTW, I found all sorts of interesting early FOL-related articles while researching. Here's a sneak peak:

[Hope I did this right] Can you spot the (semi) mistake? It's a mistake, but not really a mistake...

Oh, wow! "Running"! That is AWESOME!! :D :D :D Kudos to digging that up!!

And yes, there is only Julie Ann/e, and that is Julie Anne Haddock. ;)

Cindy is in a promo TV ad---love it!! :D

lol, yup, which also a big off-screen event to my little boy mind seeing it as a kid. The way she was completely SOAKED and poured the gushing water from her shoes, lol...and don't you just love Charlotte Rae's flubbing of her line after that bit, when the lights go off?: "Oh no, not the electrility too!" lol! (my emphasis)

Yeah, it's odd they didn't re-take that part. But then, there are at least two mic issues that first season that they didn't bother fixing, either. The audio guy must have been asleep.


My sister and I found that line of Mrs. Garrett's hilarious when we watched this episode several years ago. It's just soooooooo 1970s, lol. :lol:

Totally! And it really shows how times have changed, too: "Sad that you're a social outcast, Nancy? Have a flower!"


Since Molly found it such a horrible experience and utter humiliation, I wonder why she did it? Was she somehow contractually obligated? Did she have to? Did she want any kind of work even if it was humiliating? Was she encouraged/goaded by her parents or her agent? Hmmmmm....

I imagine she didn't know how bad it would be until she did an episode. And she realized at that point that she hated it.


But FOL definitely has no excuse with the pre-dating "Eight is Enough" having had 10 cast members and lasting 3 years! Sorry Warren Littlefield, you'll have to do better than the ol' "cast was too big" theory. ;)

That's how I feel.


Oh, wow! "Running"! That is AWESOME!! :D :D :D Kudos to digging that up!!

And yes, there is only Julie Ann/e, and that is Julie Anne Haddock. ;)

Cindy is in a promo TV ad---love it!! :D

It's only a partial mistake because Julie Pie's middle name is Ann, but that's not how she was being credited at that time, so it's a little weird.

I found many more interesting ads and articles from that era. Here's another one. See if you can spot all the strange parts!

Yeah, it's odd they didn't re-take that part. But then, there are at least two mic issues that first season that they didn't bother fixing, either. The audio guy must have been asleep.

I'm assuming I must've heard them as many times as I've seen the episodes, but which two instances do you mean?


I imagine she didn't know how bad it would be until she did an episode. And she realized at that point that she hated it.

That could be, although if she was already "devastated" from being cut from the show in the first place, it still seems a little odd. Maybe, though, being a young teenager, she thought of the friends she made and loved the thought of getting to see them and the crew again. Who knows, maybe she even had a glimmer of hope they would reconsider her? lol We'll never know until one of us runs into Ms. Ringwald and gets to ask her. :)


It's only a partial mistake because Julie Pie's middle name is Ann, but that's not how she was being credited at that time, so it's a little weird.

Ah...yeah, odd.


I found many more interesting ads and articles from that era. Here's another one. See if you can spot all the strange parts!


Wow, Molly gets two illustrations! And what's she doing with the books on her head? This isn't Mr. Bradley's Finishing School, lol. And Cindy and Nancy don't have any visuals.
Tootie looks like she's playing with a doll of herself :lol:
Wow, all the girls but Julie P. are credited! And she's one of the top stars, ouch!
Who the heck is Unknown Girl in the skates?? :lol:

http://whatculture.com/tv/10-characters-famous-tv-shows-swept-carpet.php/3

8. Most Of The First Season Cast – The Facts Of Life

The Facts of Life started out as a very different show than the one most people remember. During the first season, Mrs. Garrett was the housemother to a group of seven girls at Eastland Academy. In addition to Blair, Natalie, and Tootie, Cindy (Julie Anne Haddock), Sue Ann (Julie Piekarski), Nancy (Felice Schachter), and Molly (Molly Ringwald, yes, that Molly Ringwald) were part of the cast, as well as the school’s headmaster, Mr. Steven Bradley (John Lawlor) and a teacher, Ms. Emily Mahoney (Jenny O’Hara). As you can guess, with a ten-person cast, finding stuff for all of them to do could be difficult, to say the least. It didn’t help that most of the actresses had been cast before their characters had been fully fleshed out in a rush to get the show to production. The producers were quick to realize that this was not working, especially when the show did terrible in the ratings the first season.

O’Hara was the first to be cut from the cast. After only four episodes, it was apparent that the writers had nothing for her to do. Lawlor lasted through the end of the season when he was written out of the series. At the beginning of the second season, the show was completely overhauled to focus on only Mrs. Garrett and four of her students, including new bad girl Jo. Haddock, Piekarski, Schachter, and Ringwald would continue to make occasional cameos through the second and third season, and all but Ringwald would return for a special reunion episode in season eight. But the four girls have never been remembered in the same light as their three co-stars who were retained for the remainder of the series.


Read more at http://whatculture.com/tv/10-characters-famous-tv-shows-swept-carpet.php/3#vpvM0cleuwztjZXB.99

I'm assuming I must've heard them as many times as I've seen the episodes, but which two instances do you mean?

One is Sue Ann in "Running", when she talks about her studies. Julie Pie's mic goes out for a second. They didn't bother to fix it, or the audio guy never noticed it. The same thing happens to Mr. Bradley.


That could be, although if she was already "devastated" from being cut from the show in the first place, it still seems a little odd. Maybe, though, being a young teenager, she thought of the friends she made and loved the thought of getting to see them and the crew again. Who knows, maybe she even had a glimmer of hope they would reconsider her? lol We'll never know until one of us runs into Ms. Ringwald and gets to ask her. :)

I think if you're already used to only having a small part on a show (which is what she had), but you are a starring character, then the producers fire you, but then ask you to do a small part as a recurring character, and then you find out it's actually only five lines, and you don't appear until 16 minutes into the episode, and you're only in one scene, it might feel embarrassing. And I suppose you DO hold out hope that maybe they'll change their minds once they see you again, and how you've grown as an actress...

Molly Ringwald did an Ask Me Anything on Reddit not too long ago, and I wish someone had asked her about her FOL years, but unfortunately, no one did.




Wow, Molly gets two illustrations! And what's she doing with the books on her head? This isn't Mr. Bradley's Finishing School, lol. And Cindy and Nancy don't have any visuals.
Tootie looks like she's playing with a doll of herself :lol:
Wow, all the girls but Julie P. are credited! And she's one of the top stars, ouch!
Who the heck is Unknown Girl in the skates?? :lol:


You got 'em all! No idea who Rollerskate Girl is, or what on earth she's doing in an ad for "The Facts of Life". Weird that Julie Pie and John Lawlor aren't credited, but I guess they ran out of room, what with Rollerskate Girl in the ad. ;) No idea why Molly's got a book on her head, or why Tootie's got a doll of herself. ;)

I've got more of these bizarre ads and odd articles, if you'd like to see them. Some are quite interesting...

http://whatculture.com/tv/10-characters-famous-tv-shows-swept-carpet.php/3

Read more at http://whatculture.com/tv/10-characters-famous-tv-shows-swept-carpet.php/3#vpvM0cleuwztjZXB.99

That's an interesting article, and I think "swept under the carpet" is a good way to describe what happened to the Lost Girls, but I don't like that it, like so many other sources, relies on that old "ratings were bad" chestnut. If they wanted better ratings, they should have scheduled it on a night where it wasn't up against two hit shows. Then they changed the night for Season 2, to a night when it was on immediately after its sister program, Diff'rent Strokes, where the competition was weak, and the ratings improved... duh!

Also, ratings tend to be bad on repeat episodes. Yet they were running 1st season episodes of FOL from March 12, 1980 to November 1980, with only 9 original episodes scheduled to air during those nine months. They were running repeats 75% of the time. Tell me that didn't hurt their ratings.

I don't like that it, like so many other sources, relies on that old "ratings were bad" chestnut. If they wanted better ratings, they should have scheduled it on a night where it wasn't up against two hit shows.

Yeah, ratings were bad---the worst, literally, lol---but because of its time slot, NOT because of the much-propelled myth that "there were too many girls". I won't stand for anyone claiming that again! :rolleyes:

A similar thing happened to the young clueless suits at NBC who kept moving "Mama's Family" around the schedule in hopes of getting it cancelled, because they didn't understand the show. First it was up against "Magnum P.I.", then it was up against "The Love Boat", then it was up against etc., etc. Vicki Lawrence says every time the show would start to find an audience and get some ratings, the network would move them and they'd have to start all over again with their audience trying to find them.

So it's clear to us that with FOL it was definitely when it was airing that killed that first season and its potential, and not who was in it.

Yeah, ratings were bad---the worst, literally, lol---but because of its time slot, NOT because of the much-propelled myth that "there were too many girls". I won't stand for anyone claiming that again! :rolleyes:

It's a silly statement. If it worked fine on other shows, why couldn't it have worked on FOL?


A similar thing happened to the young clueless suits at NBC who kept moving "Mama's Family" around the schedule in hopes of getting it cancelled, because they didn't understand the show. First it was up against "Magnum P.I.", then it was up against "The Love Boat", then it was up against etc., etc. Vicki Lawrence says every time the show would start to find an audience and get some ratings, the network would move them and they'd have to start all over again with their audience trying to find them.

I never watched MF, but I don't doubt it. These decisions make very little sense looking back on them from a historical perspective. NBC would kill for decently rated shows these days.

Don't know if you saw my last reply, which ended up on the previous page...

I never watched MF, but I don't doubt it. These decisions make very little sense looking back on them from a historical perspective. NBC would kill for decently rated shows these days.

Yeah, sure enough, after two seasons, MF got the axe. But then a couple of years later some guys with Lorimar Telepictures took a look at the series and said "Ya know, this show never really got a fair shake". They felt there was life in it and a lot of potential, and lo and behold when they produced the show themselves for first-run syndication, it went four more seasons and stayed #1 at the top of the first-run syndicated ratings. Just shows you what network "suits" know. :rolleyes:


Don't know if you saw my last reply, which ended up on the previous page...

Oo, I didn't, thanks for pointing that out. :)


You got 'em all! No idea who Rollerskate Girl is, or what on earth she's doing in an ad for "The Facts of Life". Weird that Julie Pie and John Lawlor aren't credited, but I guess they ran out of room, what with Rollerskate Girl in the ad. No idea why Molly's got a book on her head, or why Tootie's got a doll of herself.

I've got more of these bizarre ads and odd articles, if you'd like to see them. Some are quite interesting...

I would LOVE to see them! I am so digging these, and I've only seen two so far! :D

Maybe you could even start a thread for them, something like "Vintage FOL Promo ads/articles" or something? These are real gems!

Yeah, sure enough, after two seasons, MF got the axe. But then a couple of years later some guys with Lorimar Telepictures took a look at the series and said "Ya know, this show never really got a fair shake". They felt there was life in it and a lot of potential, and lo and behold when they produced the show themselves for first-run syndication, it went four more seasons and stayed #1 at the top of the first-run syndicated ratings. Just shows you what network "suits" know. :rolleyes:

And I think that illustrates the fact that network execs very often don't know what they're doing. They'd seriously rather have no show than a show that could be a hit, given the right timeslot and a little attention.



I would LOVE to see them! I am so digging these, and I've only seen two so far! :D

Maybe you could even start a thread for them, something like "Vintage FOL Promo ads/articles" or something? These are real gems!

Great suggestion, '80s! Done! (http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=324139) :)

I watched this like most early 1980s teenagers, the kids were more or less my age.

None of the girls were that attractive, except for Lisa Welchel. Nancy Mckeon's jo was so butch. If this show were on today, she would be a lesbian. Tootsie got fat. Mindy Cohn, ugh. Mindy Cohn over Molly Ringwald? Really? Did the casting want the ugliest girl they could find? Not that Mindy Cohn wasn't good, but she is probably the ugliest child actress of all time. And firing Molly Ringwald? NEVER FIRE THE HOT READ HEADED TEENAGER. Moving on.

Then this show was on for so long that the four girls were 30 years old and living together, running some business. Edna took a hike and in comes Cloris Leachman. Too long of a show.

Wasn't Dana Plato supposed to be in this, but she didn't, and the show went fine without her.

None of the girls were that attractive, except for Lisa Welchel.

I actually think Julie Piekarski (http://www.fanpix.net/picture-gallery/julie-piekarski-picture-10247526.htm) was every bit as pretty as Lisa Whelchel.

Nancy Mckeon's jo was so butch. If this show were on today, she would be a lesbian. Tootsie got fat. Mindy Cohn, ugh. Mindy Cohn over Molly Ringwald? Really? Did the casting want the ugliest girl they could find? Not that Mindy Cohn wasn't good, but she is probably the ugliest child actress of all time.

I don't think Mindy was ugly at all. She was heavy. But she was also very funny naturally. I don't know; for me, her personality helped make the show very funny, and what made it a success.

Casting had nothing to do with hiring Mindy; she was discovered by Charlotte Rae when they went to do research at Westlake School for Girls, and Charlotte insisted that she be brought on the show. Casting hired Lisa, Julie, Julie Anne, Felice, Molly, and Kim. NBC exec (and later president) Brandon Tartikoff discovered Nancy, and brought her onto the show, which caused one of the Julies to be axed.


And firing Molly Ringwald? NEVER FIRE THE HOT READ HEADED TEENAGER.

Molly Ringwald should not have been fired. But at the time she was fired, she was not hot yet, and she wasn't a redhead at the time. But imagine what they could have done with her, if they had kept her on! :)


Then this show was on for so long that the four girls were 30 years old and living together, running some business. Edna took a hike and in comes Cloris Leachman. Too long of a show.

Nancy McKeon and Mindy Cohn were only 22 when the show went off the air, and Lisa Whelchel was 25. Kim Fields was only 17 in 1988. Yes, it was weird how the show kept forcing these women together in scenario after scenario. By the end, they weren't even running a business together, but they were still all living together.


Wasn't Dana Plato supposed to be in this, but she didn't, and the show went fine without her.

It was set at the school where Dana Plato's character attended. She barely ever appeared on this show. I don't think it was really ever explained why, except the network thought there were "too many girls" already.

I actually think Julie Piekarski (http://www.fanpix.net/picture-gallery/julie-piekarski-picture-10247526.htm) was every bit as pretty as Lisa Whelchel.

Julie P. was cute, even with the overbite, but like a lot of fans I do think Lisa was by far the most attractive of the girls, which was naturally a strong plus for her playing Blair, who was written as a "gorgeous blonde princess" as it was.


she was also very funny naturally. I don't know; for me, her personality helped make the show very funny, and what made it a success.

Yup, "Nat" has always been a fan favorite. She had never done one ounce of acting before "Rough Housing", and she proved herself such a natural the next 9 years!



Molly Ringwald should not have been fired. But at the time she was fired, she was not hot yet, and she wasn't a redhead at the time.

I guess she was kind of a "reddish brown" at the time, lol.


INancy McKeon and Mindy Cohn were only 22 when the show went off the air, and Lisa Whelchel was 25.

It's always amazed me that Nancy was 3 years younger than Lisa. 3 years! That is a BIG span in teenage years, yet, Blair and Jo always seemed the same age, especially from season 3 on. Amazing.


It was set at the school where Dana Plato's character attended. She barely ever appeared on this show. I don't think it was really ever explained why, except the network thought there were "too many girls" already.

Yeah, isn't it interesting that Arnold and Willis made separate cameo appearances on the series in season 2, yet Kimberly never did again after "Rough Housing"? And she was the one who attended the freaking school! :lol:

Julie P. was cute, even with the overbite, but like a lot of fans I do think Lisa was by far the most attractive of the girls, which was naturally a strong plus for her playing Blair, who was written as a "gorgeous blonde princess" as it was.

Give me a friendly, intelligent Midwestern girl over a high-maintenance snob from NYC any day. :)


Yup, "Nat" has always been a fan favorite. She had never done one ounce of acting before "Rough Housing", and she proved herself such a natural the next 9 years!

It's amazing they were able to find someone so confident who was willing to just go and appear on TV at the drop of a hat. She was very natural in comedic roles, and it didn't take her very long for her to find her sea legs in dramatic parts, either.



It's always amazed me that Nancy was 3 years younger than Lisa. 3 years! That is a BIG span in teenage years, yet, Blair and Jo always seemed the same age, especially from season 3 on. Amazing.

Yeah, I was surprised, too. She definitely 'felt' older.


Yeah, isn't it interesting that Arnold and Willis made separate cameo appearances on the series in season 2, yet Kimberly never did again after "Rough Housing"? And she was the one who attended the freaking school! :lol:

LOL! Absolutely. Even in episodes where Arnold and Willis are there, presumably visiting Kimberly, she is nowhere to be seen. I guess she was in the Lost Dorm during Season 2? :lol:

Give me a friendly, intelligent Midwestern girl over a high-maintenance snob from NYC any day. :)

Well sure, for personality definitely, but we were commenting strictly on looks, lol. ;)


It's amazing they were able to find someone so confident who was willing to just go and appear on TV at the drop of a hat. She was very natural in comedic roles, and it didn't take her very long for her to find her sea legs in dramatic parts, either.

Yep, talk about natural talent! She didn't have to "cultivate" it, it was just there right from the beginning.

Well sure, for personality definitely, but we were commenting strictly on looks, lol. ;)

Well, actually, we were talking about attractiveness, and I do find a good personality attractive. The character of Blair is extremely funny, but I can't imagine putting up with her high-maintenance BS for very long. No, I'll take Sue Ann, and you can have Blair. Deal?

Well, actually, we were talking about attractiveness, and I do find a good personality attractive.

You were responding to Young Fang's statement that none of the girls were as attractive as Lisa Whelchel:


I actually think Julie Piekarski was every bit as pretty as Lisa Whelchel. (my emphasis, lol)

I'm very literal, so there ya go, lol. ;)

This is how "Graduation" should have been.

Oh wow, lol, awesome...did you find that somewhere or did you craft that yourself?

I finally invented that time machine, then I went back in time and forced the producers of FOL to fix their mistakes. Then I came back to our time, and posted the new promo photo of "Graduation, part 2."



Naw, that's mine. I made it last night, feeling inspired. :)

Well wow, great job! :)

Thanks, '80s! I had to use photos of Felice and Julie from season 3, since I didn't have pictures of them from season 4.

Now can you please go and add them and Cindy and Molly into the episodes on the seasons 2-5 DVDs? ;)

Now can you please go and add them and Cindy and Molly into the episodes on the seasons 2-5 DVDs? ;)

Using the right tools, it actually can be done. I've often thought about using existing clips to digitally insert the Lost Girls into episodes where they didn't originally appear. It's a time-consuming process, but given that time, and some Adobe After Effects and Premiere, it's possible.

Because there is very, very little footage of Molly Ringwald in Season 2, she would not be my first choice for such an experiment. Julie Anne Haddock has quite a bit more material to choose from in seasons 2 and 3, so Cindy is a better candidate.

After examining many of the episodes, the best candidate episode might be 3-20, "Kids can be cruel", but other episodes are a possibility. The line in there about "Cynthia" can easily be changed to "Cindy", and then it's just a matter of replacing "Cynthia's" head with Cindy's, and finding a few appropriate lines of dialogue that match the episode. Of course, it's much more complex than a simple Photoshop.

Very interesting...and I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere here yet, but had you ever noticed Cindy and either Nancy/Sue Ann (or both, I haven't seen it in a while) in the background of "Who Am I?" at the dance in the cafeteria early in season 2? I'm sure you have.

Play rehearsals in a dorm, dances in the cafeteria...what kind of private school is this?? :lol:

Very interesting...and I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere here yet, but had you ever noticed Cindy and either Nancy/Sue Ann (or both, I haven't seen it in a while) in the background of "Who Am I?" at the dance in the cafeteria early in season 2? I'm sure you have.

In "Who Am I?" No. In "Sex Symbol" they are all three there.


Play rehearsals in a dorm, dances in the cafeteria...what kind of private school is this?? :lol:

Well, I went to a private junior high, and we had school dances in the cafeteria, so that doesn't seem so far-fetched to me.

In "Who Am I?" No. In "Sex Symbol" they are all three there.

Ah, that's it. I haven't watched post-season one FOL in quite a while, plus it was earlier in the morning when I wrote that, lol.


Well, I went to a private junior high, and we had school dances in the cafeteria, so that doesn't seem so far-fetched to me.

Yeah, our public middle school did as well, but I always thought of Eastland as much "roomier" since it was a private school for basically rich kids, lol.

Ah, that's it. I haven't watched post-season one FOL in quite a while, plus it was earlier in the morning when I wrote that, lol.

Understood. You know, "Who Am I" might be a great episode to digitally add in some Lost Girls into the crowd. They already exist, in party outfits, in footage from "Sex Symbol".


Yeah, our public middle school did as well, but I always thought of Eastland as much "roomier" since it was a private school for basically rich kids, lol.

Yeah, well, like I said, I fanwank a lot of things. For me, this doesn't even need fanwanking.

Yeah, well, like I said, I fanwank a lot of things.

Me too, I always have; I have to reconcile everything in my mind for it to be "real" in TV Land. :)

Me too, I always have; I have to reconcile everything in my mind for it to be "real" in TV Land. :)

True. But sometimes, you just have to "roll with it". Under that particular heading, I file:

"Mrs. G pulls Nat and Tootie out of room and board at Eastland and has them live and work in a bakery, which their parents totally approve of, because Mr. Ramsey was so understanding about Tootie getting a job as a hairdresser" :lol:

and:

"The girls close Over Our Heads, but continue living in cramped quarters above the shop instead of finding a more suitable and less expensive place." :crazy:

I'm sure you have many "roll with it"s as well.

lol, I will say the former seems more plausible to me than the latter. What parent can say "no" to the responsible, loved-by-everyone (except Mr. Parker? haha) Edna Garrett? After they've gotten to know here, that is; after all, she didn't make a good first impression on "Buffalo Ramsey", lol.

And that reminds me, sort of along those same lines, there is a line in "The New Girl Part 2" which Tootie says to Blair that gets a laugh, but I don't think it's funny. Blair starts freaking out and grabbing the wired door pane crying "Let me out! Let me out!", and Tootie says, "Blair, we've only been in here 45 minutes."

Well, yeah, being in a small police station holding room for three quarters of an hour, I could see someone getting very impatient and feeling the need to "break out". Now, if Tootie had said, "Blair, we've only been in here 10 minutes", then it would actually be funny to me.

I know that can't work because Mrs. Garrett has to have time to speak to eight parents, lol, but the line as written just falls flat with me and I don't laugh.

Yeah, you're right about that line in "The New Girl": if it was 10 minutes, it would be more suited to Blair's "princess" personality. But then Mrs. G wouldn't have had time to make the arrangements with four sets of parents (even 45 minutes seems like it is pushing it). But waiting 45 minutes makes the joke unfunny. It's like the length of time had been shorter in the original script, then it was changed because they realized it wouldn't work that way, but the joke was left in, now without the funny part.

Still, I would call "The New Girl" (both parts) one of more well-written episodes from the second season. I think there are quite a few more of those "potholes" in season one.

Speaking of Mrs. Garrett phoning their parents, I get the feeling that they hadn't yet decided Jo's dad would be in prison. Mrs. Garrett says, [to Blair] "Wrong. I spoke to your mother." [to all the girls] "I spoke to all your mothers, and your fathers."

Would she have really gotten through to Charlie sitting in prison? Perhaps, perhaps not. But it seems like it would have been much more convenient to reach him if he hadn't been in there, lol.

Speaking of Mrs. Garrett phoning their parents, I get the feeling that they hadn't yet decided Jo's dad would be in prison. Mrs. Garrett says, [to Blair] "Wrong. I spoke to your mother." [to all the girls] "I spoke to all your mothers, and your fathers."

Would she have really gotten through to Charlie sitting in prison? Perhaps, perhaps not. But it seems like it would have been much more convenient to reach him if he hadn't been in there, lol.

Yeah, I really doubt she reached Jo's father. Especially since he makes no mention, when they meet, of her getting into trouble.

None of them, the writers made a great decision.....

Nancy! Her phone conversations with and mentions of Roger were usually funny. I liked how Felice played the role. Due to Roger, Nancy seemed a bit more experienced than the other girls, in a good way.

Which girl from the first season should have stayed with the familiar foursome with Mrs. Garrett until the end?


Molly. We might have been spared from some of those '80s movies.

Molly. We might have been spared from some of those '80s movies.

Very good point, opus.

Another older Lost Girl poll!

I take it that the two posters above were not a fan of the John Hughes/Molly movies of the 80s. They were iconic and still are popular today, even among today's young people.

I take it that the two posters above were not a fan of the John Hughes/Molly movies of the 80s. They were iconic and still are popular today, even among today's young people.

The Breakfast Club is a good film because that's an ensemble and she's not really the main star. But Pretty in Pink and Sixteen Candles?....puke::barf:

But that's just my opinion and I know others love them....I just can't lol.

Aha!

From the Elyria Chronicle Telegram, July 18, 1980:

Q. It seems to me I've seen Lisa Whelchel, who plays Blair on "Facts of Life", before. What has she been in?

A. For one thing, "Diff'rent Strokes", from which "Facts of Life" spun off. Lisa's first TV job was in "The New Mickey Mouse Club" three years ago when she was 13. There have been guest spots on "The Mary Tyler Moore Show", and "Family", and two movies: "The Magician of Lublin" and "The Double McGuffin".

"Facts" will have a face-lift for fall. Mrs. Garrett (star Charlotte Rae) will move to a house off the school campus, taking four girls with her: Lisa, Felice Schachter (Nancy), Julie Piekarski (Sue Ann), and Kim Fields (Tootie).

(emphasis mine)

So, a month after "Dope" aired, there had already been a public announcement that the cast was being cut in half. Of course, this wasn't the correct line-up of girls, as we know, but the rumors were already spreading, although the show wouldn't debut until November.

The writer could have had the two Nancys confused. This is not uncommon for reporters of small newspapers

The Breakfast Club is a good film because that's an ensemble and she's not really the main star. But Pretty in Pink and Sixteen Candles?....puke::barf:

But that's just my opinion and I know others love them....I just can't lol.

Molly was actually the main star. John Hughes gave her tremendous power in the casting decisions.

Molly was actually the main star. John Hughes gave her tremendous power in the casting decisions.

That's interesting because it says this on Wikipedia about the casting:

"Molly Ringwald and Anthony Michael Hall both starred in Hughes's 1984 film Sixteen Candles. Towards the end of filming, Hughes asked them both to be in The Breakfast Club. Hall became the first to be cast, agreeing to the role of Brian Johnson; his real life mother and sister playing the same roles in the film.

Ringwald was originally approached to play the character of Allison Reynolds, but she was "really upset" because she wanted to play Claire Standish (then named "Cathy" in the first draft of the script), which saw the auditions of Robin Wright, Jodie Foster, and Laura Dern. She eventually convinced Hughes and the studio to give her the part.[7] The role of Allison ultimately went to Ally Sheedy.

It appears she was originally given Ally Sheedy's part, but got "really upset" (diva moment?) where she had to convince him to give her the part she wanted that other actresses were auditioning for. In any case, I don't believe that film has any "main star" since it's a true ensemble film where all the main characters are equal in stature.

In "Sixteen Candles" and "Pretty in Pink" Molly's the main star...but not "The Breakfast Club." :nonono:

EDIT: Also, if you look at the movie poster, the actors names are shown in alphabetical order rather than by who's the "main star" which implies that it's an ensemble billing.

Yeah, TBC really is an ensemble film.

There's an interview of Molly and Ally together where Molly looks at Ally and says, "You were really the coolest character in the movie."

Yep. I just did a line count, and here are the total lines for that episode:
Mr. Bradley: 67
Mrs. Garrett: 64
Sue Ann: 55
Cindy: 31
Blair: 25
Tootie: 25
Molly: 20
Natalie: 17
Nancy: 10


WOW!!! Sue Ann wins for the students! I cant believe Mr Bradley got more than Mrs Garrett though! :eek:

WOW!!! Sue Ann wins for the students! I cant believe Mr Bradley got more than Mrs Garrett though! :eek:

But Mr. Bradley has that big hunk of scene arguing with Sue Ann about her not running in the race. That's where a heavy amount of both of their lines come from, lol.

(just so folks know, he's talking about "Running")

The writer could have had the two Nancys confused. This is not uncommon for reporters of small newspapers
I suspect that is what happened, too.

WOW!!! Sue Ann wins for the students! I cant believe Mr Bradley got more than Mrs Garrett though! :eek:

Yeah, I suspect that was the only episode where Mr. Bradley had more lines than Mrs. Garrett. It's kinda surprising that that even happened.

Yeah, I suspect that was the only episode where Mr. Bradley had more lines than Mrs. Garrett. It's kinda surprising that that even happened.

I agree, Mrs G prob had the most normally.

I agree, Mrs G prob had the most normally.

Definitely in "Dope" and "Molly's Holiday". Mr. Bradley only appeared briefly in both those episodes. John stated in the E! True Hollywood Story that if there was an episode he was barely in, he worried that the producers hated him. And after those two episodes, he was gone.

cindy n sue ann schould of stayed til the end heck keep nancy to if she wanted to stay

Yeah, I suspect that was the only episode where Mr. Bradley had more lines than Mrs. Garrett. It's kinda surprising that that even happened.

I dunno, I'd be willing to bet some $ from my Eastland bank account that they're pretty neck-and-neck in "Flash Flood".

Yep. I just did a line count, and here are the total lines for that episode:
Mr. Bradley: 67
Mrs. Garrett: 64
Sue Ann: 55
Cindy: 31
Blair: 25
Tootie: 25
Molly: 20
Natalie: 17
Nancy: 10

Wait a minute, how does Nancy have 10 whole lines?? That seems too generous for Nancy in a wallpaper show. ;) lol

Off the top of my head, I can think of:

"Roger got so excited when I told him I was into 'eckshersize'."
Nancy's phone call to Roger, all one line.
"Cindy, why are you jumping rope?"
"What does it matter? We're talking about Cindy here!"
"Cindy, you know what Roger says whenever we have an argument?"
"Let's sleep on it!"

That's 6 lines. Am I missing any?? :confused:

Wait a minute, how does Nancy have 10 whole lines?? That seems too generous for Nancy in a wallpaper show. ;) lol

Off the top of my head, I can think of:

"Roger got so excited when I told him I was into 'eckshersize'."
Nancy's phone call to Roger, all one line.
"Cindy, why are you jumping rope?"
"What does it matter? We're talking about Cindy here!"
"Cindy, you know what Roger says whenever we have an argument?"
"Let's sleep on it!"

That's 6 lines. Am I missing any?? :confused:

In the script, Nancy's phone call to Roger is broken into three lines because there are pauses. It ends up being almost a full page of dialogue. And you are missing "Let's see a fast finish!" which is a scripted line. I might have also given her a catty "Mmmmmmm..." during the Gym scene, but the script doesn't break that out by character. As always, these were estimates based on what I heard in the episode.

In the script, Nancy's phone call to Roger is broken into three lines because there are pauses. It ends up being almost a full page of dialogue. And you are missing "Let's see a fast finish!" which is a scripted line. I might have also given her a catty "Mmmmmmm..." during the Gym scene, but the script doesn't break that out by character. As always, these were estimates based on what I heard in the episode.

Ah, okay. Yeah, I can see going either way with those phone calls. It can indeed sound more like separate lines in the show because those are her parts in a two-person conversation. But if it's uninterrupted in the script, then that can read like one big line. I might be drawn to do it more the latter way because that way it lessens her line count and it makes it much more "Nancy". :lol:

I wouldn't count the two group "MMMMmmmmms!" the girls do myself (don't you just love those? :lol:).

"Let's see a fast finish?" Where the H is that? :lol: Oh wait, that's in the gym, about Mrs. Garrett.

Bumping this since we have newer members who haven't yet voted. There are other cool polls, as well...

Bumping this since we have newer members who haven't yet voted. There are other cool polls, as well...
I told Julie on Instagram about this poll and that she has received the most votes and she replied to it.


juliepiekarskiprobst
@........ awww thank you for letting me know

I told Julie on Instagram about this poll and that she has received the most votes and she replied to it.


juliepiekarskiprobst
@........ awww thank you for letting me know

Way cool! :cool:

It doesn't surprise me that Julie Pie is in the lead. Sue Ann had the third-most lines of all the girls on the first season.

Sue Ann had the most personality out of the girls listed in the poll.

Sue Ann had the most personality out of the girls listed in the poll.

She definitely had personality, for sure. She was a good foil for Blair, being the "backwoods" anti-Blair. Yet she was still smart, charming, and had that conservative edge that the show was missing after she left the series. Imagine how much more an episode like "The Source" (abortion) could have popped, with Sue Ann involved in some way.

She definitely had personality, for sure. She was a good foil for Blair, being the "backwoods" anti-Blair. Yet she was still smart, charming, and had that conservative edge that the show was missing after she left the series. Imagine how much more an episode like "The Source" (abortion) could have popped, with Sue Ann involved in some way.

I liked the episode where Blair and Sue Ann weighed each other on the scale and they would go "MOO" when their weight was shown! :lol: Blair would tell Sue Ann to lay off mom's apple pie and Sue Ann would compare Blair's butt to NY strip cuts! :lol:
They were funny together. Too bad they didn't keep Sue Ann.

I liked the episode where Blair and Sue Ann weighed each other on the scale and they would go "MOO" when their weight was shown! :lol: Blair would tell Sue Ann to lay off mom's apple pie and Sue Ann would compare Blair's butt to NY strip cuts! :lol:
They were funny together. Too bad they didn't keep Sue Ann.

The riffing they did was very funny. Sue Ann could definitely hold her weight (pun intended) against Blair! :lol:

It's funny because Sue Ann is mentioned as late as the Reunion movie from the early 2000s, when Tootie mentions that Sue Ann was on the track team.

The riffing they did was very funny. Sue Ann could definitely hold her weight (pun intended) against Blair! :lol:

It's funny because Sue Ann is mentioned as late as the Reunion movie from the early 2000s, when Tootie mentions that Sue Ann was on the track team.

In my opinion, Sue Ann was a better "frennemy" for Blair than Jo. I definitely prefer Sue Ann over Jo.

The riffing they did was very funny. Sue Ann could definitely hold her weight (pun intended) against Blair! :lol:

It's funny because Sue Ann is mentioned as late as the Reunion movie from the early 2000s, when Tootie mentions that Sue Ann was on the track team.
I didn't see the reunion movie. I'd like to. I also didn't see them in Australia. I just saw the Paris one. It was okay.

don't forget cindy il keep her and sue ann

don't forget cindy il keep her and sue ann

Cindy would have been a cool character to keep. Her willowy wistfulness might have played well off the other girls, and we could also have had gymnastics and sports-themed episodes; "Fear Strikes Back" could have used more kick-ass girls. Maybe the subject of Blair bullying Cindy comes up in "Kids Can Be Cruel". Maybe Cindy finds romance in Paris with her new French junior tennis instructor. Anything could have been possible.

In my opinion, Sue Ann was a better "frennemy" for Blair than Jo. I definitely prefer Sue Ann over Jo.

Jo reminded me a bit too much of Fonzie: a biker brought in to "mix things up". The producers even wanted to call her Foxy, at one point, but luckily that got nixed. The reference would have been too obvious.

Jo definitely clicked with viewers, but Sue Ann could have been utilized: she often caved to peer pressure, she had strong morals that were a flashpoint between her and Blair; and she wasn't afraid to aim a zinger at Blair.

Jo reminded me a bit too much of Fonzie: a biker brought in to "mix things up". The producers even wanted to call her Foxy, at one point, but luckily that got nixed. The reference would have been too obvious.

Jo definitely clicked with viewers, but Sue Ann could have been utilized: she often caved to peer pressure, she had strong morals that were a flashpoint between her and Blair; and she wasn't afraid to aim a zinger at Blair.

If I was to choose between Sue Ann and Jo, it would be Sue Ann. Personally, I think they never should have had Jo and they should have kept Sue Ann. That's just my opinion. I know Jo was popular with the viewers and had a lot of fans, but I prefer Sue Ann from Kansas City! ;)

I'm glad they didn't keep Sue Ann. All Sue Ann did was try to be better than everyone. She was constantly jealous of the people she called friends. Even as an adult in The Little Chill, she lies to these girls to make them think she's better than them. Here's Natalie living her life the way she wants but feels like crap after seeing Sue Ann's lie of a life. People like Sue Ann will never know how to be a friend because they need that feeling of superiority over others. This show was based on real friendship so I'm glad they replaced Sue Ann with Jo.

Out of the first season girls, Cindy should have been kept. She had a lot of development that would have been interesting to see. If Molly had been kept, I would have quit watching. Nancy was given nothing so it was hard to tell if her character had been anything.

The riffing they did was very funny. Sue Ann could definitely hold her weight (pun intended) against Blair! :lol:

It's also very sad, as neither of those girls had a visible ounce of fat on them.

I never did like any storylines with that topic. it sends girls the wrong message. best message would be to eat healthy, exercise, be happy. way too much pressure to be perfect, especially since its unattainable. also, for the girls watching at home, if you see these hollywood actresses not satisfied with their bodies, they might assume, what chance do they have. important to have good self esteem and confidence. bodies are just a vehicle to navigate around life on earth anyway.

I never did like any storylines with that topic. it sends girls the wrong message. best message would be to eat healthy, exercise, be happy. way too much pressure to be perfect, especially since its unattainable. also, for the girls watching at home, if you see these hollywood actresses not satisfied with their bodies, they might assume, what chance do they have. important to have good self esteem and confidence. bodies are just a vehicle to navigate around life on earth anyway.

Exactly. It feels like in a way the writers were offensively irresponsible. When I was watching some episodes in the late '90s and my sister was in the room (she had watched the show growing up as well), she scoffed at that fat-insult scene and said something like "They're talking about being 'fat'? No wonder so many girls have eating disorders."

I'm glad they didn't keep Sue Ann. All Sue Ann did was try to be better than everyone.

Oh, I don't know about that. In the very first FOL episode, Sue Ann nominated Cindy to run for Harvest Queen. It's not something Cindy herself would ever have considered herself for. She was shocked someone would even consider her. It was a great kindness by Sue Ann to nominate Cindy, and it was Blair who was putting Cindy down.

In "Like Mother, Like Daughter", Sue Ann is the moral compass of the group, temporarily standing up against gossip (before caving). She's also kind to Mrs. Garrett, giving her good advice about how she's dressed, and letting her know she looks great.

In "Overachieving", Sue Ann fights to save Tootie's enrollment at Eastland. In "Running", Sue Ann and Cindy compete, but it is Sue Ann who is the first one to admit she was wrong, and the fact is, she had been coaching Cindy in the first place not out of jealousy but from the kindness of her heart. Similarly, she tutors Nancy in "IQ", and even worries that swearing on her mother's life will have dire consequences in "Dope".

What we get with Sue Ann is a character who is conflicted: she wants to be the best, but is plagued with self-doubt: she's worried about her weight, she's worried about being popular, and she's worried about fitting in. I feel like Sue Ann is one of the most three-dimensional characters on 1980s television, and it's clear she was, in some ways, based on a 15-year-old Julie Pie herself: friendly, helpful... but maybe a little insecure.

The writers mined a lot from Julie Pie herself, for Sue Ann, and part of that was Sue Ann's belief in doing the "right thing", whether that was being supportive of a friend, helping Mrs. Garrett, or saving herself for marriage ("The Facts of Love").

There were times Sue Ann could be judgemental, such as "Sex Symbol", and overly gossipy ("Gossip"), but the fact is that when a friend was in need, Sue Ann would help, whether that meant licking 143 envelopes ("Gossip"), taking a stand against breaking the law ("Adoption"), or believing people can mend their ways ("The Return of Mr. Garrett").


She was constantly jealous of the people she called friends.

Well, I wouldn't say "constantly" jealous, but she does show streaks of jealousy in "IQ", "Running", and "The Little Chill". But part of that, of course, is that the other girls are really rubbing things in, in both "IQ" and "Running". And she wouldn't have become nearly as envious of Cindy's time in "Running" if Mr. Bradley had been honest about what that time was: he lied in order to push Sue Ann back into the competition. That wasn't Sue Ann's fault.


Even as an adult in The Little Chill, she lies to these girls to make them think she's better than them. Here's Natalie living her life the way she wants but feels like crap after seeing Sue Ann's lie of a life.

And yet, Sue Ann was about to tell the truth, but Jo stopped her.


Out of the first season girls, Cindy should have been kept. She had a lot of development that would have been interesting to see.

Well, I sure agree, there. There was a lot they could have done with Cindy. We'll never know, now, but there was so much potential, there.

If Molly had been kept, I would have quit watching.

Ooh, harsh! I can see how Molly was grating, at times, but her love of photography and journalism were admirable. She would have been awesome in the book banning episode.


Nancy was given nothing so it was hard to tell if her character had been anything.

I think they should have have Nancy acting in the play in "Green-Eyed Monster". We'd seen her in "The Girls' School", and she'd received that acting scholarship. Why, then, is she so passive in "GAM"? She encourages Tootie to act, but we see no sign that Nancy herself is participating.

It's also very sad, as neither of those girls had a visible ounce of fat on them.

True, they were NOT fat. And yet, body shaming was a huge phenomenon in that era, especially between girls. Not to mention a similar phenomenon: slut shaming.

Exactly. It feels like in a way the writers were offensively irresponsible. When I was watching some episodes in the late '90s and my sister was in the room (she had watched the show growing up as well), she scoffed at that fat-insult scene and said something like "They're talking about being 'fat'? No wonder so many girls have eating disorders."

she is smart to say that. it should not be that 'regular' girls get their cues from actors on tv. its a shame that is the case in modern times. a lot of times adults tell kids they can be anything they want, then reverse course by fitting them into roles in society each year that they get older.

it is very important, perhaps even vitally important to wisely pick and choose what kids watch on TV. I do agree that often times, writers are offensively irresponsible. they need to be 'the adults in the room' if kids are watching TV alone for a little while. you never know what a kid would hear that will set them on the wrong course.

True, they were NOT fat. And yet, body shaming was a huge phenomenon in that era, especially between girls. Not to mention a similar phenomenon: slut shaming.



When you refer slut shaming, are you talking about the episode 'Rough Housing' by any chance? (When MRS G puts BLAIR to shame)

:nonono::nonono::nonono::nonono::nonono::nonono::nonono::nonono::nonono:

I'm glad they didn't keep Sue Ann. All Sue Ann did was try to be better than everyone. She was constantly jealous of the people she called friends. Even as an adult in The Little Chill, she lies to these girls to make them think she's better than them. Here's Natalie living her life the way she wants but feels like crap after seeing Sue Ann's lie of a life. People like Sue Ann will never know how to be a friend because they need that feeling of superiority over others. This show was based on real friendship so I'm glad they replaced Sue Ann with Jo.

Out of the first season girls, Cindy should have been kept. She had a lot of development that would have been interesting to see. If Molly had been kept, I would have quit watching. Nancy was given nothing so it was hard to tell if her character had been anything.


Wow! That was harsh Christopher! :eek:

I know you don't like SUE ANN, but i don't think she was all things you said, and especially not during season 1: she was all about warmth, caring, sensitive and there for her friends in need!
To me, SUE ANN was the bubbliest girl: always cheery and smiling, and best of all, the most optimistic of them all!

On the other hand, it is true that by the 'Little chill' (as a young adult) she had changed drastically and became sort of a snob!

And yes, i vote for CINDY too: they should have kept her after the revamp, to see her developing more as a character, and could have been used as a foil to BLAIR sometimes, and to hang around JO....

But, they should also have kept SUE ANN, to see her interact more with jO: it would have been interesting to see those 2 clash lol!

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

When you refer slut shaming, are you talking about the episode 'Rough Housing' by any chance? (When MRS G puts BLAIR to shame)

:nonono::nonono::nonono::nonono::nonono::nonono::nonono::nonono::nonono:

I actually was not referring to "Rough Housing", as I actually feel as though Mrs. Garrett wasn't slut-shaming Blair; she as teaching her a lesson on making assumptions about people. At no point did Mrs. Garrett imply that Blair sleeping around was a bad thing, even though Blair insisted she was not that kind of girl, and was upset about Mrs. Garrett's implication.

No, there was slut shaming on The Facts of Life, and a lot of it happened in "Sex Symbol": both Home Run Helen and Natalie were the victims, with Nancy, Cindy, Sue Ann, and even Natalie herself being the shamers and rumor-spreaders.

The thing is that that same dialog could not be used if those characters were male: it wouldn't be believable for guys to pick on other guys for having sex: Sidney, Clancy, and Lou Man would only give Natty a hard time for not having sex. But who are they supposed to have sex with, if not the girls who aren't supposed to have sex? The double standard is bizarre, and we'd never have a slut-shaming episode if this was the Facts of Stone Academy.

I actually was not referring to "Rough Housing", as I actually feel as though Mrs. Garrett wasn't slut-shaming Blair; she as teaching her a lesson on making assumptions about people. At no point did Mrs. Garrett imply that Blair sleeping around was a bad thing, even though Blair insisted she was not that kind of girl, and was upset about Mrs. Garrett's implication.

No, there was slut shaming on The Facts of Life, and a lot of it happened in "Sex Symbol": both Home Run Helen and Natalie were the victims, with Nancy, Cindy, Sue Ann, and even Natalie herself being the shamers and rumor-spreaders.

The thing is that that same dialog could not be used if those characters were male: it wouldn't be believable for guys to pick on other guys for having sex: Sidney, Clancy, and Lou Man would only give Natty a hard time for not having sex. But who are they supposed to have sex with, if not the girls who aren't supposed to have sex? The double standard is bizarre, and we'd never have a slut-shaming episode if this was the Facts of Stone Academy.




You're right: i didn't think MRS G was really slut shaming BLAIR (it's just that so many people use that word though) but more like lecturing her very seriously by the look on her stern face.

And yes, BLAIR was definitely upset by MRS G's implication that she was easy (even though i'm sure she was doing it to make her react) and rectifies that she is just a tease.

I could go on and on about that episode i so much love lol!

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

You're right: i didn't think MRS G was really slut shaming BLAIR (it's just that so many people use that word though) but more like lecturing her very seriously by the look on her stern face.

She definitely wanted to teach Blair a lesson, but that lesson wasn't "don't have sex". it was "don't judge a book by its cover".


And yes, BLAIR was definitely upset by MRS G's implication that she was easy (even though i'm sure she was doing it to make her react) and rectifies that she is just a tease.

I could go on and on about that episode i so much love lol!

Me too! There are many layers to that episode, some of which don't even get addressed in the episode itself.


:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

Ooh, bananas in a post about sex? What kind of girl are you, Valentina? ;)

Oh, I don't know about that. In the very first FOL episode, Sue Ann nominated Cindy to run for Harvest Queen. It's not something Cindy herself would ever have considered herself for. She was shocked someone would even consider her. It was a great kindness by Sue Ann to nominate Cindy, and it was Blair who was putting Cindy down.

In "Like Mother, Like Daughter", Sue Ann is the moral compass of the group, temporarily standing up against gossip (before caving). She's also kind to Mrs. Garrett, giving her good advice about how she's dressed, and letting her know she looks great.

In "Overachieving", Sue Ann fights to save Tootie's enrollment at Eastland. In "Running", Sue Ann and Cindy compete, but it is Sue Ann who is the first one to admit she was wrong, and the fact is, she had been coaching Cindy in the first place not out of jealousy but from the kindness of her heart. Similarly, she tutors Nancy in "IQ", and even worries that swearing on her mother's life will have dire consequences in "Dope".

What we get with Sue Ann is a character who is conflicted: she wants to be the best, but is plagued with self-doubt: she's worried about her weight, she's worried about being popular, and she's worried about fitting in. I feel like Sue Ann is one of the most three-dimensional characters on 1980s television, and it's clear she was, in some ways, based on a 15-year-old Julie Pie herself: friendly, helpful... but maybe a little insecure.

The writers mined a lot from Julie Pie herself, for Sue Ann, and part of that was Sue Ann's belief in doing the "right thing", whether that was being supportive of a friend, helping Mrs. Garrett, or saving herself for marriage ("The Facts of Love").

There were times Sue Ann could be judgemental, such as "Sex Symbol", and overly gossipy ("Gossip"), but the fact is that when a friend was in need, Sue Ann would help, whether that meant licking 143 envelopes ("Gossip"), taking a stand against breaking the law ("Adoption"), or believing people can mend their ways ("The Return of Mr. Garrett").



Well, I wouldn't say "constantly" jealous, but she does show streaks of jealousy in "IQ", "Running", and "The Little Chill". But part of that, of course, is that the other girls are really rubbing things in, in both "IQ" and "Running". And she wouldn't have become nearly as envious of Cindy's time in "Running" if Mr. Bradley had been honest about what that time was: he lied in order to push Sue Ann back into the competition. That wasn't Sue Ann's fault.



And yet, Sue Ann was about to tell the truth, but Jo stopped her.



Well, I sure agree, there. There was a lot they could have done with Cindy. We'll never know, now, but there was so much potential, there.



Ooh, harsh! I can see how Molly was grating, at times, but her love of photography and journalism were admirable. She would have been awesome in the book banning episode.



I think they should have have Nancy acting in the play in "Green-Eyed Monster". We'd seen her in "The Girls' School", and she'd received that acting scholarship. Why, then, is she so passive in "GAM"? She encourages Tootie to act, but we see no sign that Nancy herself is participating.
Well said Retro! :wave:

She definitely wanted to teach Blair a lesson, but that lesson wasn't "don't have sex". it was "don't judge a book by its cover".



Me too! There are many layers to that episode, some of which don't even get addressed in the episode itself.



Ooh, bananas in a post about sex? What kind of girl are you, Valentina? ;)

Didn't Season 1 Blair gave hints at being easy? She was always mocking Sue Ann's traditional family values. She was advocating premarital sex in the Facts of Love. Always dating different guys and making out with them. I wonder how Lisa felt about Season 1 Blair later in the series.

perhaps that is why the show changed course and brought in Jo. Maybe Lisa(Blair) said she did not want to portray that image. She has said in later interviews that she has not signed up for other shows/movies because she read the script and did not approve of the direction those shows would be heading. perhaps this was the start of her disapproving.

Didn't Season 1 Blair gave hints at being easy? She was always mocking Sue Ann's traditional family values. She was advocating premarital sex in the Facts of Love. Always dating different guys and making out with them.

I thought it was clear Blair was a tease, and her talk was just that: talk, just as she says in "Rough Housing". In "The Facts of Love", she actually pushed Steve away when he started going too far. Well, if there was a "too far", they didn't go all the way. If she didn't go all the way, then she wasn't easy.

I thought it was clear Blair was a tease, and her talk was just that: talk, just as she says in "Rough Housing". In "The Facts of Love", she actually pushed Steve away when he started going too far. Well, if there was a "too far", they didn't go all the way. If she didn't go all the way, then she wasn't easy.



Very well said Retro!!!!! I wish i could give you a high 5 for real!!!

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Def Sue Ann :)

Def Sue Ann :)

Woohoo Sue Ann stays in a big lead!

A beer for SUE ANN then hooray!!!!

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

In "The Facts of Love", she actually pushed Steve away when he started going too far.

IMO that's because he was becoming violent with male aggression. I think she still wanted to advance, at least beyond Sue Ann's level so she could rub her Kansas City nose in it. After all, she tells Mrs. Garrett that Steve was the one who wanted to take things slow.

And she wouldn't have become nearly as envious of Cindy's time in "Running" if Mr. Bradley had been honest about what that time was: he lied in order to push Sue Ann back into the competition. That wasn't Sue Ann's fault.


That's like saying when a person kills someone over something a third party said, we should blame the third party and not the one who actually did the killing. Sue Ann is responsible for her actions just like anyone else. Sue Ann had so many moments of being a supportive friend but refused. Most of the time Sue Ann never acted as a friend. She had too much arrogance and insecurities to know how to treat someone nicely.


And yet, Sue Ann was about to tell the truth, but Jo stopped her.

Jo stopped because she was already being treated like crap from Sue Ann. And you know if Jo had blabbed, season one fans would have bashed Jo for making Sue Ann admit she's a failure in her career. Jo was at a lose lose situation so I don't think Jo did anything wrong caving into the green eyed bully that Sue Ann was being in the episode.



Ooh, harsh! I can see how Molly was grating, at times, but her love of photography and journalism were admirable. She would have been awesome in the book banning episode.

Molly Ringwald's attitude was the final nail in the coffin for me disliking her so much. Out of all the characters, Molly is the worst. The show saved itself getting rid of a character like hers and an actress who would have eventually threw fits because she wasn't getting the better storylines. If Molly had stayed, Lisa would not have been able to maintain the star status of the girls for long. I think Molly would have demanded more causing less airtime for the girls.

That's like saying when a person kills someone over something a third party said, we should blame the third party and not the one who actually did the killing.

In the case of killers, I do think there are things we as a society can do to help prevent these crimes from ever happening. This isn't blaming the victim; it's identifying areas where our society has marginalized many people who could have otherwise become better people.

Sue Ann is a warm, loving person. She has bouts of self-doubt, and times when people have goaded her into becoming jealous. Mr. Bradley purposely lies in order to make Sue Ann feel jealous. And it's Sue Ann who is, in fact, the first person to back down in the Sue Ann/Cindy dispute. Mr. Bradley, as an adult, should certainly have known better, and it's good that he eventually admitted what he did.

Cindy exclaims that she loves Sue Ann because Sue Ann was supportive. It's Blair who, time and time again, puts down both Cindy and Sue Ann, calling Sue Ann fat and Cindy "strange". Even as late as Season 8, Blair claims she thought Cindy would only make the cover of Boys Life.


Jo stopped because she was already being treated like crap from Sue Ann. And you know if Jo had blabbed, season one fans would have bashed Jo for making Sue Ann admit she's a failure in her career. Jo was at a lose lose situation so I don't think Jo did anything wrong caving into the green eyed bully that Sue Ann was being in the episode.

Sue Ann did make a huge mistake by lying in that episode, but it's no different than the Core Four lying in their various episodes. We all remember Jo lying and shoplifting, Blair taking revenge on Jo by making her shower in cold water, etc. The important part is that these girls learned lessons, and Sue Ann did learn a valuable lesson.


Molly Ringwald's attitude was the final nail in the coffin for me disliking her so much.

Molly fell into that weird Brat Pack crowd: the Hollwood film teen elite... but she never would have been in that teen elite if she had stayed on The Facts of Life. She very likely would have been more grounded. We never would have heard about her exploits in Paris with her chef bringing her the wrong wine for her fancy cheese, etc.


Out of all the characters, Molly is the worst. The show saved itself getting rid of a character like hers and an actress who would have eventually threw fits because she wasn't getting the better storylines. If Molly had stayed, Lisa would not have been able to maintain the star status of the girls for long. I think Molly would have demanded more causing less airtime for the girls.

I don't think Molly would have demanded anything if she had stayed on FOL: it would have grounded her and made her a more humble person.

Even as late as Season 8, Blair claims she thought Cindy would only make the cover of Boys Life.

In Blair's defense, I take that line to mean that's what she thought in the 1979-1980 school year (plus, she's teasing her).


I don't think Molly would have demanded anything if she had stayed on FOL: it would have grounded her and made her a more humble person.

And we would have had some real "woman power" story lines from a feminist.

I never understood why BLAIR kept making comments about SUE ANN's weight: they both looked about the same size lol!

About the comments BLAIR made to CINDY in the 'Little chill': she was only teasing her! (just like in the good old days).
In fact, i liked how both girls interacted, and BLAIR was even envious about CINDY's good fortune and modelling career! (it was like the tables had turned!).

I also don't think BLAIR would have become less of a star, had MOLLY be kept on (i hope not lol!), but in my opinion, MOLLY was just a kid and far too young to be a foil to 'our pampered Princess'!

CINDY on the other hand would have been perfect as a foil to BLAIR, and i can already see MRS G coming to the rescue, every time they'd be arguing:

Mrs G: "Blair, are you bullying Cindy again?"
Blair: "No mam'!"
Cindy: "Yes she was! and next time i'm going to punch the hell out of your arrogant face Blair!"
Mrs G: "Enough girls! If i ever catch both of you arguing again, there is going to be trouble! So make up now and compromise! That's what friendship is all about!"
Blair and Cindy in unison: "Yes mam'!"

And as soon as our feisty red head turns her back on them, both 'frenemies' glare at each other in anger.....

:argue::argue::argue::argue::argue::argue::argue::argue::argue::argue::argue:

In Blair's defense, I take that line to mean that's what she thought in the 1979-1980 school year (plus, she's teasing her).

She is teasing her, for sure, just as she teased Jo all those years about not being feminine. But isn't all that teasing in some way microaggression? What if your old friend reunited with you, you let him know you were on the cover of Time magazine, and the first words out of his mouth were, "The only magazine cover I thought you'd be on is Cosmopolitan."

You might think, "Hah, very funny." But later, laying in bed, you might think, "What did he mean by that?"


And we would have had some real "woman power" story lines from a feminist.

We could have had all sorts of great episodes. Imagine an episode where Gloria Steinem, rather than Zsa Zsa Gabor, visits Eastland, at Molly's request... yet Molly still can't get a part-time job in a man's field. That would have been hard-hitting. The show might have been taken a bit more seriously by the awards elite. They certainly would have noticed a heavyweight like Steinem.

With the right dialog, Molly had good acting chops. We see this just two years later when she was a nominee for a Golden Globe for her role in The Tempest. Just keep her away from that damn guitar! :lol:

I never understood why BLAIR kept making comments about SUE ANN's weight: they both looked about the same size lol!

Yes, they were. And so it feels less like bullying and more like things girlfriends might say to each other. But what if Blair had said the exact same things about Natalie? "Old thunderthighs" and the rest. It suddenly become cruel.

The thing is that Sue Ann had developed an eating disorder. Yet Blair never stopped the jokes.


In fact, i liked how both girls interacted, and BLAIR was even envious about CINDY's good fortune and modelling career! (it was like the tables had turned!).

It really was... and Cindy got the last laugh.


I also don't think BLAIR would have become less of a star, had MOLLY be kept on (i hope not lol!), but in my opinion, MOLLY was just a kid and far too young to be a foil to 'our pampered Princess'!

Molly still could have been a role model for an entire generation of girls who wanted equal treatment.

Yes, they were. And so it feels less like bullying and more like things girlfriends might say to each other. But what if Blair had said the exact same things about Natalie? "Old thunderthighs" and the rest. It suddenly become cruel.

The thing is that Sue Ann had developed an eating disorder. Yet Blair never stopped the jokes.



It really was... and Cindy got the last laugh.



Molly still could have been a role model for an entire generation of girls who wanted equal treatment.



There is no way that BLAIR would have ever made any comments to NAT about her weight: deep down she was way to sensitive to do that, and besides, she was very protective over her! (at least in season 1).

It's an entirely different story with SUE ANN: she was BLAIR's rival/friend in season 1, and there was also that closeness/bond that BLAIR didn't have with NAT yet! (a bond that BLAIR and NAT would develop once they became the 'Core of 4').

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

She is teasing her, for sure, just as she teased Jo all those years about not being feminine. But isn't all that teasing in some way microaggression? What if your old friend reunited with you, you let him know you were on the cover of Time magazine, and the first words out of his mouth were, "The only magazine cover I thought you'd be on is Cosmopolitan."

You might think, "Hah, very funny." But later, laying in bed, you might think, "What did he mean by that?"

I don't think I would. I think I would see that he was just ribbing me for how he used to perceive me like an older brother, like Blair is doing here as an older sister. Just teasing the tomboy little sis as an affectionate way of showing she's proud of her. :)



We could have had all sorts of great episodes. Imagine an episode where Gloria Steinem, rather than Zsa Zsa Gabor, visits Eastland, at Molly's request... yet Molly still can't get a part-time job in a man's field. That would have been hard-hitting. The show might have been taken a bit more seriously by the awards elite. They certainly would have noticed a heavyweight like Steinem.

Yup, very interesting!


With the right dialog, Molly had good acting chops. We see this just two years later when she was a nominee for a Golden Globe for her role in The Tempest. Just keep her away from that damn guitar! :lol:

lol, I know you're no fan of her FOL singing, but having listened to her Joan Baez tribute over and over several times, it sounds the same as her Disney singing, just a cappella (after that first guitar chord).

That's like saying when a person kills someone over something a third party said, we should blame the third party and not the one who actually did the killing. Sue Ann is responsible for her actions just like anyone else. Sue Ann had so many moments of being a supportive friend but refused. Most of the time Sue Ann never acted as a friend. She had too much arrogance and insecurities to know how to treat someone

Omg you have to be kidding comparing Sue Ann to a killer? For the billionth time she had not idea Natalie would be effected but already committed to her story. Nat was barely effected other than a small joke like she always makes. Sue Ann supported her friends in all but two eps, one when she was exploited by mr bradley and one when she was trying to make her friends see her as a success.

Jo stopped because she was already being treated like crap from Sue Ann. And you know if Jo had blabbed, season one fans would have bashed Jo for making Sue Ann admit she's a failure in her career. Jo was at a lose lose situation so I don't think Jo did anything wrong caving into the green eyed bully that Sue Ann was being in the episode.
Right cuz no other char ever had a moment like that? Wasn’t there an Ep called Green Eyed Monster? Bully my behind.

I don't think I would. I think I would see that he was just ribbing me for how he used to perceive me like an older brother, like Blair is doing here as an older sister. Just teasing the tomboy little sis as an affectionate way of showing she's proud of her. :)

I can see how Cindy even took it that way, in the episode. But there's no guarantee she would have. They hadn't seen each other (that we know of) in a lot of years.

And the truth is, Blair has a long history of taking jokes a little too far. Her "getting ahead" of Jo in "Dear Apple" comes to mind.




lol, I know you're no fan of her FOL singing, but having listened to her Joan Baez tribute over and over several times, it sounds the same as her Disney singing, just a cappella (after that first guitar chord).

In Molly's Disney Christmas song, she sings like an angel. I can see why they asked her to sing on the show. The Joan Baez song does not sound good to me. Might partially be the out of tune guitar, but it also sounds shrill to me.

Yep just like Mrs G in the theme I’m sure they had Molly sound worse than she could do

There is no way that BLAIR would have ever made any comments to NAT about her weight: deep down she was way to sensitive to do that, and besides, she was very protective over her! (at least in season 1).

It's an entirely different story with SUE ANN: she was BLAIR's rival/friend in season 1, and there was also that closeness/bond that BLAIR didn't have with NAT yet! (a bond that BLAIR and NAT would develop once they became the 'Core of 4').

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

So because Blair is closer to Sue Ann than she is to Nat, she makes fat jokes at Sue Ann's expense? I do agree that's what happened, here, but it feels a little messed up, especially after Sue Ann developed an eating disorder.

Certainly Blair grew very close to Sue Ann over summer of 1979: in May, she wouldn't associate with her. But by August of 1979, Blair is giving Sue Ann expensive clothes ("LMLD") and getting Sue Ann into exclusive cliques ("Dieting", "Dope"). Sue Ann clearly won her over in ways Nancy could not.

Sue Ann also served as Blair's confidante, keeping Blair's secrets where other girls would not. While Tootie blackmails ("ED") and Natalie blabs ("LMLD") Sue Ann keeps silent until lives are in danger ("FF")..

I would want Sue Ann as a friend, for sure.

Yep just like Mrs G in the theme I’m sure they had Molly sound worse than she could do

And I just don't know why. Charlotte had a beautiful voice. Why use her "Itsy Bitsy Spider" voice for a theme song?

And I just don't know why. Charlotte had a beautiful voice. Why use her "Itsy Bitsy Spider" voice for a theme song?

Haha I’m guessing they wanted her to sound grandmotherly

Omg you have to be kidding comparing Sue Ann to a killer? For the billionth time she had not idea Natalie would be effected but already committed to her story. Nat was barely effected other than a small joke like she always makes. Sue Ann supported her friends in all but two eps, one when she was exploited by mr bradley and one when she was trying to make her friends see her as a success.

I wasn't comparing Sue Ann to a serial killer. I was using Retro's example of blaming a third party for what someone does to another. Thank you Lorimar for showing your true colors to new members here. What we've learned now is that no one is allowed to have an opinion about season 1 unless it matches your guys :wave:

In Molly's Disney Christmas song, she sings like an angel. I can see why they asked her to sing on the show. The Joan Baez song does not sound good to me. Might partially be the out of tune guitar, but it also sounds shrill to me.

She doesn't play the guitar while singing though, she only plays one opening chord. I'm a musician and I think she does a wonderful job. Our ears will just have to agree to disagree. :lol: (something we've come to do now and again over the years, lol)

She doesn't play the guitar while singing though, she only plays one opening chord. I'm a musician and I think she does a wonderful job. Our ears will just have to agree to disagree. :lol: (something we've come to do now and again over the years, lol)

I had no idea you are a musician; what do you play (or sing)?

Yep, agree to disagree. :lol:

I had no idea you are a musician; what do you play (or sing)?

Yep, agree to disagree. :lol:

Oh, I didn't know you didn't know, lol (I thought maybe I mentioned it over the years, but maybe not).

I play piano (something the girls in the dorm never did for that poor ignored instrument! :lol:) and I played trombone in school, and then I got a large wooden alto recorder that has a beautiful tone that I enjoy taking out now and again. And I do love to sing, bass/baritone (I grew up singing in school and church ensembles [back when I went to church in my upbringing] and I'm constantly singing with my iPod Touch playlists when I'm driving, lol).

Oh, I didn't know you didn't know, lol (I thought maybe I mentioned it over the years, but maybe not).

I play piano (something the girls in the dorm never did for that poor ignored instrument! :lol:)

No wonder you expressed your sadness over the piano being ignored! :lol::lol::lol::lol:


and I played trombone in school, and then I got a large wooden alto recorder that has a beautiful tone that I enjoy taking out now and again. And I do love to sing, bass/baritone (I grew up singing in school and church ensembles [back when I went to church in my upbringing] and I'm constantly singing with my iPod Touch playlists when I'm driving, lol).

Nice! I tried the recorder, guitar, and piano, but none of the lessons really "stuck".

No wonder you expressed your sadness over the piano being ignored! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Exactly!! :lol: That's why I always notice! lol


Nice! I tried the recorder, guitar, and piano, but none of the lessons really "stuck".

But FOL sure did! :nod:

Exactly!! :lol: That's why I always notice! lol

I see why now! :lol:


But FOL sure did! :nod:

Oh, yeah. Watching the show was a part of my childhood. It became a part of me. Each time Mrs. Garrett taught one of her girls a lesson, I learned one, too. It made me who I am today.

I see why now! :lol:

Yup lol. I love playing '80s songs, country songs, soundtrack songs (I have the FOL sheet music!), Disney songs, Muppet songs, Xmas songs, some classical pieces...it's a great relaxation.


Oh, yeah. Watching the show was a part of my childhood. It became a part of me. Each time Mrs. Garrett taught one of her girls a lesson, I learned one, too. It made me who I am today.

Yes, her influence helped shape us for sure (and things like Sesame Street of course, as well).

Yup lol. I love playing '80s songs, country songs, soundtrack songs (I have the FOL sheet music!), Disney songs, Muppet songs, Xmas songs, some classical pieces...it's a great relaxation.




Yes, her influence helped shape us for sure (and things like Sesame Street of course, as well).



Wow 80s! You're surely full of surprises!:talk:

I had no idea you were such an artist: a singer and a composer lol!

I love to sing too, and especially romantic songs, Xmas carols and Disney themes!

Which one is your favourite Disney song? Mine is BEAUTY AND THE BEAST from Celine Dion! (also the fact, that it has become the romantic tune for Rumpelstiltskin and Belle from ONCE UPON A TIME and those 2 are my favourite characters!)

The second favourite one for me would be A WHOLE NEW WORLD from Aladdin (sung by Peabo Bryson and Regina Belle).

I guess i am into the classics lol! Oldies but goodies!!!

:rockon::rockon::rockon::rockon::rockon::rockon::rockon::rockon::rockon:

Wow 80s! You're surely full of surprises!:talk:

I had no idea you were such an artist: a singer and a composer lol!

Oh, I do love to play and sing, but no, I do not compose original music! lol :) I do enjoy writing song parodies, but those are of course to already existing music.


Which one is your favourite Disney song? Mine is BEAUTY AND THE BEAST from Celine Dion!

The second favourite one for me would be A WHOLE NEW WORLD from Aladdin (sung by Peabo Bryson and Regina Belle).

I guess i am into the classics lol! Oldies but goodies!!!

lol...one favourite Disney song? That's like asking me to choose my favorite from hundreds of kids. :lol: I don't know that I have a first or second favorite (although some I could say would be in my "top ten"), but I can tell you that my favorite Disney film is 1959's Sleeping Beauty. What a beautiful "moving medieval tapestry" of art. :heart:

I don't think I would. I think I would see that he was just ribbing me for how he used to perceive me like an older brother, like Blair is doing here as an older sister. Just teasing the tomboy little sis as an affectionate way of showing she's proud of her. :)





Yup, very interesting!




lol, I know you're no fan of her FOL singing, but having listened to her Joan Baez tribute over and over several times, it sounds the same as her Disney singing, just a cappella (after that first guitar chord).



I would hardly consider someone older than me by just a year, to be an older sibling (it's like saying NATALIE is thinking of TOOTIE as a little sister???)

BLAIR was onlya year older than CINDY, so in my opinion she thought of her as equal.

TOOTIE on the other hand would have seeing BLAIR as an older sister and visa versa lol!

Besides: my best friend at school was exactly a year younger, nevertheless she saw me as equal and so did i. (We were in the same grade, because she started school a year ahead of me).

:jar::jar::jar::jar::jar::jar::jar::jar::jar::jar::jar::jar::jar::jar:

I would hardly consider someone older than me by just a year, to be an older sibling (it's like saying NATALIE is thinking of TOOTIE as a little sister???)

BLAIR was onlya year older than CINDY, so in my opinion she thought of her as equal.

TOOTIE on the other hand would have seeing BLAIR as an older sister and visa versa lol!

Besides: my best friend at school was exactly a year younger, nevertheless she saw me as equal and so did i. (We were in the same grade, because she started school a year ahead of me).

:jar::jar::jar::jar::jar::jar::jar::jar::jar::jar::jar::jar::jar::jar:

But Cindy is still younger! :lol: And especially in those teenage years, that has far more significance than a year apart as an adult. Plus, Cindy was so insecure and willowy and wistful and "small" inside that she probably really felt that year gab with taller, sophisticated, confident Blair bullying over her.

Tootie knew how to stand up to Blair and would even blackmail her. She was not afraid of Blair. Nancy on the other hand, was a different story. There was a huge height difference and Nancy was not afraid to use threats of violence.

Tootie knew how to stand up to Blair and would even blackmail her. She was not afraid of Blair. Nancy on the other hand, was a different story. There was a huge height difference and Nancy was not afraid to use threats of violence.


Like on the episode 'Gossip': when NANCY towers over TOOTIE and threatens her to make her swallow the globe, if she doesn't tell her the secret about ROGER?

:rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflmao::rotflma

But Cindy is still younger! :lol: And especially in those teenage years, that has far more significance than a year apart as an adult. Plus, Cindy was so insecure and willowy and wistful and "small" inside that she probably really felt that year gab with taller, sophisticated, confident Blair bullying over her.


BLAIR looked taller than CINDY, cos she was wearing high heels for the dance hee hee!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl

I wasn't comparing Sue Ann to a serial killer. I was using Retro's example of blaming a third party for what someone does to another. Thank you Lorimar for showing your true colors to new members here. What we've learned now is that no one is allowed to have an opinion about season 1 unless it matches your guys :wave:

Sir you aren’t a new member, you’ve been spouting anti season 1 stuff for ages and when anyone challenges it, you call them a bully and say you feel attacked. I’ve said over and over again you are entitled to your opinion but you have a way of picking at people, you’ve had issues with several members here. Maybe if you’re the one having these issues, everyone else isn’t the issue...

But Cindy is still younger! :lol: And especially in those teenage years, that has far more significance than a year apart as an adult. Plus, Cindy was so insecure and willowy and wistful and "small" inside that she probably really felt that year gab with taller, sophisticated, confident Blair bullying over her.

Cindy definitely felt considerably younger than Blair, and by more than just that one year. Blair was nearly grown up while Cindy was wiping off her milk mustache.

:groucho

Sir you aren’t a new member, you’ve been spouting anti season 1 stuff for ages and when anyone challenges it, you call them a bully and say you feel attacked. I’ve said over and over again you are entitled to your opinion but you have a way of picking at people, you’ve had issues with several members here. Maybe if you’re the one having these issues, everyone else isn’t the issue...

All I did was post my opinion on Sue Ann which got replies from Retro to who I responded to. You singled me out and tried making a case I'm wrong for how I perceive Sue Ann. If my posts bother you so much, why don't you block me? You're how old? Do you know how much crap I skip on here because it's about season 1 and that doesn't interest me? And you're wrong to say I'm the only person who speaks out. There's been others. Hell our new member likes Jo and posted something she heard about Nancy saving NBC. You guys were quick to say what she feels "needs to die". You guys like to hound others and pick a fight over a 40 something year old show. If it bothers you, move on. I have a right to post my opinion about season 1 and the cast when a thread like this interests me. Please feel free to ignore me because that's usually the mature thing to do. But don't ever tell me I can't say something like Nancy saved the show just because you guys say she didn't. I've been here for 20 years and everyone knows by now I don't take that ****.

All I did was post my opinion on Sue Ann which got replies from Retro to who I responded to. You singled me out and tried making a case I'm wrong for how I perceive Sue Ann. If my posts bother you so much, why don't you block me? You're how old? Do you know how much crap I skip on here because it's about season 1 and that doesn't interest me? And you're wrong to say I'm the only person who speaks out. There's been others. Hell our new member likes Jo and posted something she heard about Nancy saving NBC. You guys were quick to say what she feels "needs to die". You guys like to hound others and pick a fight over a 40 something year old show. If it bothers you, move on. I have a right to post my opinion about season 1 and the cast when a thread like this interests me. Please feel free to ignore me because that's usually the mature thing to do. But don't ever tell me I can't say something like Nancy saved the show just because you guys say she didn't. I've been here for 20 years and everyone knows by now I don't take that ****.

Again you lump all season 1 fans and all Nancy fans together, stop trying to create a divide.

Again you lump all season 1 fans and all Nancy fans together, stop trying to create a divide.

Well maybe we can both learn from this. You claim I'm the only one with an issue when I can pull up countless threads of others speaking out. The most recent one being Cloris Leachmen's tribute thread where it turned into a first season girls tribute thread and some of you were upset The Little Chill wasn't airing. I wasn't the only one with an issue as you call it. If you can accept not all season one fans here are polite, I will learn not to lump you guys together claiming you're all like that.

All I did was post my opinion on Sue Ann which got replies from Retro to who I responded to.

I always appreciate responses, so no issue there! :wave:

Hell our new member likes Jo and posted something she heard about Nancy saving NBC. You guys were quick to say what she feels "needs to die".

No, what I said was "No, Nancy McKeon didn't save NBC, and that myth needs to die." It's not clear to me that Awesome80s feels Nancy McKeon saved NBC; she was asking if we felt it was true.

I think Awesome80s is awesome and would never want to offend her. I specifically said Nancy was a great actress and have said how important Jo's role was in the success of the show.

At the same time, we can tackle some things that have become common myths. Certain documentaries have said things that aren't true, such as that there were "ten, twelve girls", the implication being that with a twelve-girl cast, some would have to go. It's such an exaggeration... don't you think?


You guys like to hound others

No-one was hounded, and no-one likes to hound. I said a myth should die. That's all! ;)

Well maybe we can both learn from this. You claim I'm the only one with an issue when I can pull up countless threads of others speaking out. The most recent one being Cloris Leachmen's tribute thread where it turned into a first season girls tribute thread and some of you were upset The Little Chill wasn't airing. I wasn't the only one with an issue as you call it. If you can accept not all season one fans here are polite, I will learn not to lump you guys together claiming you're all like that.

Yes I agree with you. I can agree not all s1 fans are polite and I’ve seen a few questionable comments from time to time, but like you probably wouldn’t wanna be considered a Nancy fanatic from the early years, we don’t all wanna be considered as “season 1 is the only good season” people. Hope we can move on from this, and respect each other’s povs.

No, what I said was "No, Nancy McKeon didn't save NBC, and that myth needs to die." It's not clear to me that Awesome80s feels Nancy McKeon saved NBC; she was asking if we felt it was true.

I think Awesome80s is awesome and would never want to offend her. I specifically said Nancy was a great actress and have said how important Jo's role was in the success of the show.



Her post was overlooked or ignored when she responded to you. She has said she likes Jo. It appears to me she may feel Nancy saved the show since she said those are the facts after season 2. I have never said Nancy saved this show and don't feel that way. I think the retool helped and the direction to four girls. No actress or actor can save a show without the writing and cast to go with it. JMO.

Here's her response btw in case you did miss this reply to you.

perhaps we can all agree that we will never know what would have happened to the show if all the original actresses stayed on. We do know what happened to the show after season 2. Those are the FACTS.

Her post was overlooked or ignored when she responded to you.

I haven't ignored anyone, and have responded to Awesome80s consistently. I wouldn't have time to respond to every post, as there have been likely a hundred posts on the FOL forum in the last 24 hours. Please don't say that I've ignored posts when it would be quite impossible for me to respond to every thread when it's this busy. I'm also working on several Facts projects right now.


She has said she likes Jo.

That doesn't mean she feels Jo saved an entire network. She asked if we felt that way, and I responded that I felt that myth should die, giving specific facts why I feel that way. That's all.

I have never said Nancy saved this show and don't feel that way. I think the retool helped and the direction to four girls. No actress or actor can save a show without the writing and cast to go with it. JMO.

I don't feel the retool helped, as there are thousands of comments on YouTube saying the show was "less good" when the cast was reduced, but we certainly agree that a single actor/actress likely can't save a show; these things are all group efforts, requiring a lot of work and also a lot of considered thought about scheduling, advertising, wardrobe, storylines, etc. I don't think anyone's efforts should be minimized.

I voted for Molly. She had the most unique character out of the Lost Girls and she would have had the easiest time bouncing off the other four. If they had kept Sue Ann, where do they focus the frenemy relationship? Jo/Sue Ann, Blair/Sue Ann, Blair/Sue Ann/Jo? With Cindy, there don’t need to be two tomboys, although going from tomboy to model would be an interesting storyline....and Nancy’s just the most expendable (even though she returns the most) I never felt like they cemented her friendship to the other six girls.

I voted for Molly. She had the most unique character out of the Lost Girls and she would have had the easiest time bouncing off the other four.

She did have the most distinctive personality.


If they had kept Sue Ann, where do they focus the frenemy relationship? Jo/Sue Ann, Blair/Sue Ann, Blair/Sue Ann/Jo?

True, it would have been a more complex relationship than what we see in later seasons. Of course, other shows managed six, seven, eight friends without that really being a real problem.

With Cindy, there don’t need to be two tomboys, although going from tomboy to model would be an interesting storyline....

Yeah, Warren Littlefield's head might have exploded. "They've got three, four tomboys on this show!" :lol:

and Nancy’s just the most expendable (even though she returns the most) I never felt like they cemented her friendship to the other six girls.

It's true: we see her interacting with the other girls far less, and she feels less connected to them. "She just lifts out," as Friends might say. Not that they couldn't have integrated her in, they just didn't.

YI can agree not all s1 fans are polite

Most of the people here are polite (whatever disagreements there may be, it would be unfair to say anyone here is not polite all of the time or in general), which is nice and as it should be. After all, we've all grown up learning from Mrs. Garrett. :)

Cindy definitely felt considerably younger than Blair, and by more than just that one year. Blair was nearly grown up while Cindy was wiping off her milk mustache.

:groucho



I don't see it that way: to me, BLAIR looked about the same age as CINDY (she was just taller) and remember that in real life, LISA is supposed to be only 2 years older than JULIE (on the show she was only a year older).

TOOTIE, MOLLY and NAT on the other hand looked a lot younger than BLAIR, and it was probably due to the fact that they were kids and still growing.

CINDY, NANCY, SUE ANN and BLAIR were the only teenagers from the 'Core of 8'....

PS: CINDY and SUE ANN were very short, and maybe that is why you are under the impression that they might look younger than BLAIR lol!

If you think that BLAIR looked like an adult, then what about NANCY? (i could say that height made her look older than them then?)

:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:

I don't see it that way: to me, BLAIR looked about the same age as CINDY (she was just taller) and remember that in real life, LISA is supposed to be only 2 years older than JULIE (on the show she was only a year older).

TOOTIE, MOLLY and NAT on the other hand looked a lot younger than BLAIR, and it was probably due to the fact that they were kids and still growing.

CINDY, NANCY, SUE ANN and BLAIR were the only teenagers from the 'Core of 8'....

PS: CINDY and SUE ANN were very short, and maybe that is why you are under the impression that they might look younger than BLAIR lol!

If you think that BLAIR looked like an adult, then what about NANCY? (i could say that height made her look older than them then?)

:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:

Blair hair style in the first half of the series made her look older.

Blair hair style in the first half of the series made her look older.



I think i understand what you mean: in some episodes BLAIR might have looked slightly older (like the way she was dressed when she met STEVEN in the van), but in other episodes, 'Like mother, like daughter' she looked just like a young teenager....

In a way: BLAIR looked somehow younger in season 2 (partly because she was wearing her uniform at times, but also her blond hairstyle made her look like a very young Farrah Fawcett).

On the other hand: NANCY (as JO) didn't look any younger than LISA (as BLAIR) even though she was supposed to be 3 years younger in real life!

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

I've read (http://www.tellytalk.net/threads/the-facts-of-life.11580/post-304574) the argument that some of the young actresses during the first season weren't that great. It's naturally safe to assume that Lisa, Kim, and Mindy were the stand-outs since they were the only ones who were held over to the second season. But in the case of Julie Piekarski (Sue Ann), it depending on your point of view, often felt like she would've been more at home acting in some small-town high school play.

I've read (http://www.tellytalk.net/threads/the-facts-of-life.11580/post-304574) the argument that some of the young actresses during the first season weren't that great. It's naturally safe to assume that Lisa, Kim, and Mindy were the stand-outs since they were the only ones who were held over to the second season. But in the case of Julie Piekarski (Sue Ann), it depending on your point of view, often felt like she would've been more at home acting in some small-town high school play.

Mindy was not a standout, but she was a pet project and they didn't want to give up on her so quickly. They said there was too many blondes so that eliminated the Julies. Funny that they got rid of their most successful post FOL cast member despite Executive Producer Jerry Meyer support.

in the case of Julie Piekarski (Sue Ann), it depending on your point of view, often felt like she would've been more at home acting in some small-town high school play.

Yes, I am definitely from that same point of view.

Mindy was not a standout

She was a standout, because she was "the clown" of the group, the one always ready with a punchline. That made her easily memorable.

She was a standout, because she was "the clown" of the group, the one always ready with a punchline. That made her easily memorable.

True- and in Season Three, Miss Cohn would also prove her dramatic mettle when she chillingly and believably nailed Natalie's reactions of being traumatized, upset, frightened and confused after Natalie had gotten attacked with the intent to be raped while the girl was in a Charlie Chaplin costume in 'Fear Strikes Back'.

Maybe Miss Ringwald could have done it but it wouldn't have been so. .. unexpected by the audience to have had it happen to Molly as it was for it to have happened to Natalie.

True- and in Season Three, Miss Cohn would also prove her dramatic mettle when she chillingly and believably nailed Natalie's reactions of being traumatized, upset, frightened and confused after Natalie had gotten attacked with the intent to be raped while the girl was in a Charlie Chaplin costume in 'Fear Strikes Back'.

I agree. I do get chills every time I see that. That's one of many of the show's "big" moments that stood out to me in my formative years while viewing the show.


Maybe Miss Ringwald could have done it but it wouldn't have been so. .. unexpected by the audience to have had it happen to Molly as it was for it to have happened to Natalie.

Like when in the kitchen, Mrs. Garrett says it's about power and not attraction.

Julie P. was cute, even with the overbite, but like a lot of fans I do think Lisa was by far the most attractive of the girls, which was naturally a strong plus for her playing Blair, who was written as a "gorgeous blonde princess" as it was.




Yup, "Nat" has always been a fan favorite. She had never done one ounce of acting before "Rough Housing", and she proved herself such a natural the next 9 years!





I guess she was kind of a "reddish brown" at the time, lol.




It's always amazed me that Nancy was 3 years younger than Lisa. 3 years! That is a BIG span in teenage years, yet, Blair and Jo always seemed the same age, especially from season 3 on. Amazing.




Yeah, isn't it interesting that Arnold and Willis made separate cameo appearances on the series in season 2, yet Kimberly never did again after "Rough Housing"? And she was the one who attended the freaking school! :lol:

Julie Anne Haddock was the most attractive of all the girls.

Julie Anne Haddock was the most attractive of all the girls.

Stated by "beauty" Lisa Whelchel herself! :loveya:

From the Lost girls, i'd say FELICE SCHACHTER was the best looking one! (although both JULIES are not far ahead)!

phone:phone:phone:phone:phone:phone:phone:phone:phone:phone:phone:

Julie Anne Haddock was the most attractive of all the girls.

I know that there are other people that think that, but I strongly disagree. I'd rank her above Natalie. That would probably be it.

I know that there are other people that think that, but I strongly disagree. I'd rank her above Natalie. That would probably be it.

Well, to each their own, but 5-year-old me had a HUGE crush on Julie Anne. Dress or no dress!

Julie Pie was def prettiest imo

Julie Pie was def prettiest imo

Gotta admit, she was gorgeous.

Well, to each their own.

Right. We all have individual tastes.

Right. We all have individual tastes.

It takes diff'rent strokes to move the world, yes it does.

As soon as I saw this poll I was like there is no way anyone BUT Sue Ann was going to win. Hers was the biggest loss to the show in my opinion anyway.

As soon as I saw this poll I was like there is no way anyone BUT Sue Ann was going to win. Hers was the biggest loss to the show in my opinion anyway.


DEFINITELY!

:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

As soon as I saw this poll I was like there is no way anyone BUT Sue Ann was going to win. Hers was the biggest loss to the show in my opinion anyway.

Sue Ann had the biggest role on the show, of all of the Lost Girls. The show definitely changed with her loss: we wouldn't get a conservative-liberal frank discussion of the issues anymore: there wouldn't be a conservative POV. When discussing book banning, abortion, or other topics, we'd get only one side.