I've read in a couple of books about this...
(I typed this directly out of a book)

She was more expressive when she was alone with Desi. Whatever joy remained in their marriage effectively ended with the story in Hollywood Confidential . Harriet told her closet friend that in the course of one argument at the height of their fame, possibly during this period, Lucy knocked Desi out cold. She often "shot" him with the lighter shaped like a dueling pistol, but on this particular occasion, she actually picked up a hammer and hit him on the head. He fell down unconscious and when he did not respond to her attempts to revive him, Lucy screamed for Harriet. The two women applied ice packs with no noticeable results. Certain that she had killed him, Lucy and Harriet decided that their story would be that he had fallen and hit his head. While they rehearsed it before calling the police, much as Lucy Ricardo and Ethel Mertz would have done if I Love Lucy had been set in hell, Desi revived. As he sat holding one of their ice packs, he realized that he would have to explain his appearance when he went to the studio and agreed to go along with their explanation that he had fallen and hit his head.

:eek:

Also, I read in some books that when Desi bent over, Lucy kicked him and she kicked him in his crouch.

What do you guys think??

Well I guess it's common knowledge that she used to whale on him from time to time, especially when they'd been having one of their fights, but this stuff does sound a little but OTT! I can't imagine her discussing an alibi, or not even taking his pulse!

Geez, keep the hammers away from Lucy when she's angry!!! It reminds me of a story she told in "Love, Lucy." When they were still newlyweds, she and Desi had a huge fight and she woke up the next morning and smashed all of the windows on their new station wagon with a hammer! Desi should have recognized the warning signs then!

This story was discussed on another message board a few months back. We pointed out that this story didn't even come from any of the people who were actually there -- Harriet, Lucy or Desi. So it is hearsay, but then again, what reason would anyone have to make up a story like this?

However, the possibilities are endless. The details could have gotten skewed in the process. For instance, maybe she cold cocked him instead of hitting him with the hammer. Or maybe when Harriet told her friend this story, she made it seem more dramatic, making it into a bigger deal than it really was.

Or maybe it really happened that way. And if so, it really is extreme. No matter how angry you are with someone, no matter what that person did to get you that angry, you just don't hit people over the head with hammers. Furthermore, you just don't have hammers accessable at any given moment -- most people don't, anyway. So it probably wasn't in the heat of the moment. She had to plan it out -- seek out her weapon. I hope this isn't true, but it really doesn't seem that far fetched to me. Lucy was a very emotional lady.

Some people on the other message board expressed their shock over the fact that Lucy and Harriet were actually planning to cover it up. Sorry, but I think I would probably do the same thing if I had just killed my husband with a hammer. Let me emphasize that I would have never gotten myself into that position in the first place because I would never have even thought about hitting him over the head with a hammer it all. BUT, if the deed had already been done and I were in her position--one half of the most famous couple in the country at that time--I would have told the police that it was an accident. Could you imagine the headlines? "Lucille Ball Kills Husband Desi Arnaz by Blow to the Head" That would have been bigger than the OJ Simpson trial!

Both of these hammer stories--we know at least one of them is true because Lucy told the car story herself--show that Lucy just didn't know the proper way to deal with her anger and her intense emotions. Some people were insulted when Lucie said that her mother would often react to bad situations like a child, throwing tantrums, etc. These stories seem to verify that. She really didn't know the adult way to deal with her anger.

One more thing: I'm wondering if anybody truly could verify this story? If Desi went to the studio and had a big knot on his head and told everybody that he fell down, at least one person who worked with them should be able to verify that, yes, Desi did come into work with that story at one time.

I think suspecting her of doing it in cold blood is a little extreme! She might have had a hammer to hand for any number of reasons. They had a lot of parties with banners up, for example. All the same, I agree it is extreme, but we do know she had a temper! So did he of course. I've heard about her throwing pots and vases at him, so I guess anything else she happened to have nearby, including a hammer, isn't really going that much further.

They were quite the pair, weren't they!

:smash: :crazy:

lol! where do ya'll get those smilies like that?

You know the little bunch of them next to the reply box? Underneath it says "Showing 16 0f 150 - Get More". Click there and there's lots more.

All hail the dancing banana

:notworthy: :banana:

This one's Desi doing El Cumbanchero! :guitar:

wow! they're so cool! thanks lol

this one explains me! lol =P

:newbie:

Originally posted by crazyredhead
wow! they're so cool! thanks lol

this one explains me! lol =P

:newbie: That is a strange smilie. I mean, what did that 5th guy ever do to get yelled at and then kicked out? And eww...the new 4th guy grows out of the new 5th?

Too much thinking, I know. :lol:

Whatever the story, we know that Lucy had a knack for embellishing and exagerrating. I know she used to love to talk about how the Italian lady in one of the European episodes really did start coming after her in the wine vat and was trying to drown her. Even the ILL writers have gone on record in television interviews saying that Lucy used to love to tell the story that way, even though it wasn't true.

So who knows what really happened. Lucy and Desi probably did have physical fights - they both had very volatile tempers - and some probably did get out of control. But hitting someone with a hammer is pretty serious and not just something you walk away from with a little bump on the head. But who really knows.

Whatever the story, we know that Lucy had a knack for embellishing and exagerrating. I know she used to love to talk about how the Italian lady in one of the European episodes really did start coming after her in the wine vat and was trying to drown her. Even the ILL writers have gone on record in television interviews saying that Lucy used to love to tell the story that way, even though it wasn't true. That's true. I've heard she used to say that her nose catching fire in the Hollywood At Last episode was an accident too, and that's not true.:rolleyes:

Yep, re the Hollywood episode with Bill Holden, she did love to say that her fake nose wasn't supposed to catch on fire and she had to improvise and dip her nose in the coffee cup to put it out. Everything that came out of that episode was scripted, but she liked to make it sound more interesting than it really had been, and somehow her bit about improvising some of that scene accomplished that for her.

Originally posted by Joicetti
Everything that came out of that episode was scripted, but she liked to make it sound more interesting than it really had been, and somehow her bit about improvising some of that scene accomplished that for her.

Over the years, she probably told that story so much that she actually started to believe it!

That is a strange smilie. I mean, what did that 5th guy ever do to get yelled at and then kicked out? And eww...the new 4th guy grows out of the new 5th?

lol! I guess because newbies are strange, like me..I got yelled at when I first came to this board didn't I? lol

I didn't. I had to wait ages before somebody yelled at me. :(



:lol:

Some how I would hvae to say that story is false....Lucy LOVED Desi, even though he was a art to her, she loved him, i highly doubt she would ever deliberately hurt him in that way. I think she has thrown a few plates at him in their time,,,,but nothing ever serious to come of it. Can you honestly blame her for being angry though? He cheated on her. He drank incessively, he gambled. He did all the things she would over and over beg him not to do. I hear in intrviews and even in reading books and talking to people that Desi always said he loved Lucy, and how beutiful she was and how attracted he was to her....and Lucy obviously adored him...just look at the way they look at eachother in pictures. So I guess my question is if you honestly feel this way about someone, why would you look around and do these things on a continuous basis, when you know it is hurting that person terribly? Being stuck in your ways, isn't a factor here. Maybe that was what he was used to, or grew up doing and was taught by other male "models" to do....but he got married, it was time for him tp settle down and grow up. When you are married, such things as partying and cheating with hookers isn't sanctionable....besides he had Lucy....he had the most beutiful loving adoring woman to make him happy and meet his every need why in the world would anyone want to stray??? Let me ask the guys this??? If you were married to Lucy would YOU honestly stray, knowing you had the most beutiful woman in the world at your side??? I know if I was a guy I wouldn't, In fact I would never want to stray from her.

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
So I guess my question is if you honestly feel this way about someone, why would you look around and do these things on a continuous basis, when you know it is hurting that person terribly? Being stuck in your ways, isn't a factor here. Maybe that was what he was used to, or grew up doing and was taught by other male "models" to do....but he got married, it was time for him tp settle down and grow up. When you are married, such things as partying and cheating with hookers isn't sanctionable....besides he had Lucy....he had the most beutiful loving adoring woman to make him happy and meet his every need why in the world would anyone want to stray??? Let me ask the guys this??? If you were married to Lucy would YOU honestly stray, knowing you had the most beutiful woman in the world at your side??? I know if I was a guy I wouldn't, In fact I would never want to stray from her.

I think that in those first 10 years, his reason for straying had a lot to do with the separation. He was traveling the country with his band; Lucy was in Hollywood making movies. They were apart a lot, always talking (or fighting) on the telephone. Some of the books led me to believe that the cheating was a lot less frequent during the time when they were first making ILL and having children. Then it intensified once again when the pressure of the business was getting to him. Also, he was kind of raised to think that nothing was wrong with that kind of behavior. I mean, what is a teenager supposed to believe when his father arranges to have him go to a whorehouse to learn about sex when he's 15?

Being raised that way, or being separated from your wife, or any other reason is no excuse at all, I agree. It really is a shame that Lucy had to suffer because of it. But, as I mentioned in a previous thread, Lucy was no saint either. She had taken on the role of 'homewrecker' in a previous relationship. Hopefully she felt remorse later on and realized how hurtful it felt to be cheated on. I'm not saying she deserved to be cheated on by Desi. I'm just attempting to point out that both Desi and Lucy's moral outlook on marriage, at one time or another, had been a little warped.

I don't think anyone deserves to be hurt by another. My grandmother was cheated on by my grandad, and she was a saint, she was the perfect wife, cooked, cleaned, raised his children, madee sure the house ran smoothely and then went on to raise his grandchild, and did one damn fine job. My aunt after 12 years of marrige her husband left her for some strip joint trash, He was positively evil to her, and she treated him like gold. She did make a mistake early on in her life....but I don't think it is proper to justify what goes around comes around. Because the end issue is feelings are involved.

As for Lucy and Al Hall, I don't beleive Lucy ever meant to be a homewrecker...Al Hall kept leading her on to beleive his marriage was in jeopardy anyways and there was no marriage left and kept telling her he was ending it, but procrastenated, one excuse after another. Lucy did not like that very much, also she wasn't very much in love with Al Hall...she just seemed to kinda settle for him, because he took an intrest in her,and that is what Lucy liked, she liked people to be interested in her and then she would cling to them. He was good for her career, he was a meal ticket, and Lucy figures "Well, a girls got to eat" But she wasn't attracted to him, he may have been attracted to her, but hey normal man wouldn't you would be crazy not to, the woman was a knock out. You can see in pics of them the way he look at her, the way all her her "beaus" do, but look at a picture of Lucy and Desi, and teh way they look at eachother....and tell me that isn't kismet. You can tell Lucy ADORES him, absolutly worships him, and he knew it too. He said in his book how he loved her and fawned over her. But after they divorced Lucy would take to her bed crying for days at a time, even when she was married to Gary You knew she still felt for him and longed for him, she surely didn't look at Gary adoringly as she did Desi, that was THE ONLY man she ever did that for...Desi. The divorce really messed her up emotionally and I don't care how much Lucy caked it up, she wasn't as happy with Gary as she was with Desi. She loved Desi, But had no other alternative to end the marriage, because he wasn't going to conform or settle down. Desi wanted to do what he wanted to do, and he wanted to have his cake and eat it to. And yes argue the point if you will, but I DO NOT think it is terribly unfair for Lucy to want Desi to change, because in marrige you stick to one person. When you are workin for CocaCola you don't go off and sneak a Pepsi. and why would you.....why would anyone want hamburger when they can have filet mignon EVERYNITE???? yes I know that is acorney analogy. But you must admit it adheres. Even if his father did ttake him to a whorehouse at age 15....that was when he was a kid....when he was married to Lucy he was old enough to know right from wrong.

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
besides he had Lucy....he had the most beutiful loving adoring woman to make him happy and meet his every need why in the world would anyone want to stray??? Let me ask the guys this??? If you were married to Lucy would YOU honestly stray, knowing you had the most beutiful woman in the world at your side??? I know if I was a guy I wouldn't, In fact I would never want to stray from her.

"The most beautiful loving adoring woman to make him happy?" Well that's debatable. "To meet his every need in the world" - how do you know?! It was six of one and half a dozen of the other in that relationship, and even if it wasn't, none of us, no matter how much you've read, seen or heard about them knows what it was really like in that relationship. Even Lucie and Desi jr don't know exactly. Nobody does except the two people who can't tell us, because they're not here anymore. You sound like a real Lucy-phile, Lucille Ball, and good luck to you! But don't let it colour your judgement that much. :)

Yes, but Mickey, she has had contact with the people around Lucy, and Lucy and Desi both confided their every thought to these people, it DOES always come out eventually, the real story i mean.

Sorry. I have built in Desi defence mechanisms. :p

To use the favorite and best line of Dawson Girl's idol, GOOD ANSWER!

Oh dawsongirl. Your idol's a quiz show host?! :)

I Love the 70's on VH1 did a good piece on Richard Dawson and Family Feud.:)

Don't get me wrong I am not thrashing Desi, I am just saying he was a rat for what he did to Lucy. Yes he did put fourth a ton of effort into the Desilu empire, but that still does not change the fact of the matter.

i still don't understand why Jamestown has to "adopt" Desi,,,,now Celoron is too, and building him a bandshell in former Celoron park....but hey we all know why that is don't we???

Originally posted by SPLAIN
To use the favorite and best line of Dawson Girl's idol, GOOD ANSWER!

:D :yippee:

Originally posted by Mickey
Oh dawsongirl. Your idol's a quiz show host?! :)

And actor. Everyone go see The Running Man just for Richard's scenes. :D :lol:

But yes, Family Feud host Richard Dawson is my fav celeb.

Originally posted by Lodee
I Love the 70's on VH1 did a good piece on Richard Dawson and Family Feud.:)

Just no one believe that he was drunk. The man didn't drink. Brett Somers (former Match Game panelist, along with Richard) said that herself in a recent NY stage show.

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
i still don't understand why Jamestown has to "adopt" Desi,,,,now Celoron is too, and building him a bandshell in former Celoron park....but hey we all know why that is don't we???

Here's the way I look at it. Desi deserves some sort of memorial. I mean, Mary Tyler Moore has a statue in Minneapolis, so why not Desi.

Where to put it in the US...Miami would be a decent spot I suppose, but they have problems of their own. So to me, the most logical spot is where his wife...the person he is most identified with...grew up. Sure, they could put it in So Cal, but geez...every actor could have a monument in Hollywood. So Jamestown it is. I honestly think Lucy would see no prob with it.

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
now Celoron is too, and building him a bandshell in former Celoron park....but hey we all know why that is don't we???

No. Why?

And sorry, but Desi deserves a memorial just as much as Lucy does. Whatever else that woman did, it's I Love Lucy that she's really famous for, and he's as much of that as she is. Plus to this day he's just about the only Latino ever to make it in TV; to have his own show, to have the producing weight. That makes him an important role model, and it also raises issues that maybe still need to be addressed.

What a great idea, MIAMI, with it's huge Latino population, or Los Angeles for the same reason, or specifically Del Mar, at the race track maybe? Tell him the reason Jen, i'm in enough hot water!

Originally posted by SPLAIN
What a great idea, MIAMI, with it's huge Latino population, or Los Angeles for the same reason, or specifically Del Mar, at the race track maybe?

Yeah, I mean, he set the place a blaze with his congo line and all that, so why not?

You know darn well the reason. Lucie Arnaz bought the Lucy and Desi Museum and she is forever promoting him......usually more than her mother. she is forever Building her father up and tearing her mother down. I am not saying Desi deserves no credit, I am saying why can't Lucie just let Lucy be.
See I already know where this is going and this has already been discussed in two other threads. JaneTVFan made terrific points in her thread, and I have to say I agree with her. Look at this past weekend on Bravo. Desi was promoted much more than Lucy was...look at the credits at the end of the documentary...edited by Lucie Arnaz. I have no prob with her, I just cannot stand the fact she talks down about her mother. She puts daddy on a pedestal...knowing he DID cheat on her mother, knowing HE WAS a heavy drinker, and Gambled all the time. He used the "poor me excuse, I am not getting any hits in Hollywood so I am just gonna drown my sorrows in alcohol and women" Lucy loved him and she kept the marriage together the first time by insisting Desi be in the show, she knew the risks taht were involved in it for her, and how that of it didn't work out, it could have very well been the end of her career. but she Loved Desi so much, wanted to be with him so she stood up to all those executives and said look...you want me, you take him. Remember they already wanted Lucy, they begged for Lucy, they didn't want Desi, But Lucy spoke off and demanded,That took guts.She could have ruined her career with a risk like that. Honestly all he could do was beat a drum....and The Rhumba and Conga line was dying out. It was Lucy who wanted Papa Freund, Lucy who had the hook ups in Hollywood. Desi had no idea about cameras and stuff. It was Lucy that became his inspiration for callaborating the three camera technique Live audience show. I give him credit for throwing the idea out to all these hollywood mudules and handeling business affairs , he was smart about that stuff and running a studio...but all that came to him because he was married to Lucy. If he wasn't married to her I highly doubt he would have gotten to where he did. Then when things would go wrong in that, he would drink and browse and gamble some more. Lucy gave up, she was at her wits end, what else could she do???Lucy gave him credit for all the behind the scenes stuff, and pushed herself aside, and said "no no I really don't know too much about that" She knew she did, she was always asking questions and learning from the time she got into Hollywood, but she gave Desi credit so it would build up his manly esteem....because she loved him and she felt bad for him.

If not for Lucy all of that stuff wouldn't have happned. It was Lucy that stood behind her man and let him grow some hollywood balls. And like they say behind every great man with a brilliant idea, is the woman who gave it to him.

I know when many fans think of Lucy , many cannot help but think of "Ricky" I love Lucy was THE BEST show that ever hit the TV airwaves....But Lucy was the star.....Desi even said so himself....soemone asked to divide the credits up for it...he said give Lucy 90% and leave 10% for the rest of us.....Lucy was the star, Bill Viv and I were just props, and good props, but props none the less......If anything happens to Lucy, amigo, we're all in the shrimp business. That is what Desi said. That is fine if they give him soem accolade for his efforts, but that is LUCY'S HOMETOWN, that is where Lucy grew up and where Lucy was born. That is her turf. It is one thing to call it the Lucy Desi museum....but they don't need to be building shrines and giving him a kety to the city. I mean they aren't doing taht for Viv and Bill, and they were a big part of the show. Gee Phillip Morris sponsered the show, should they move their headquarters from Virginia to Jamestown New York??? Jes Oppenheimer and teh writers were a big part of teh creativitry on tah show...lets make it their hometown too and give them bandshells and stufff. SHEEEESH!!!!

Lucy was a brilliant woman, I know that it is hard to beleive that a woman that beautiful...had brains and was brilliant, but it is true....why can't people just leave her alone???

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
You know darn well the reason. Lucie Arnaz bought the Lucy and Desi Museum and she is forever promoting him......usually more than her mother. she is forever Building her father up and tearing her mother down. I am not saying Desi deserves no credit, I am saying why can't Lucie just let Lucy be.
See I already know where this is going and this has already been discussed in two other threads. JaneTVFan made terrific points in her thread, and I have to say I agree with her. Look at this past weekend on Bravo. Desi was promoted much more than Lucy was...look at the credits at the end of the documentary...edited by Lucie Arnaz. I have no prob with her, I just cannot stand the fact she talks down about her mother. She puts daddy on a pedestal...knowing he DID cheat on her mother, knowing HE WAS a heavy drinker, and Gambled all the time. He used the "poor me excuse, I am not getting any hits in Hollywood so I am just gonna drown my sorrows in alcohol and women" Lucy loved him and she kept the marriage together the first time by insisting Desi be in the show, she knew the risks taht were involved in it for her, and how that of it didn't work out, it could have very well been the end of her career. but she Loved Desi so much, wanted to be with him so she stood up to all those executives and said look...you want me, you take him. Remember they already wanted Lucy, they begged for Lucy, they didn't want Desi, But Lucy spoke off and demanded,That took guts.She could have ruined her career with a risk like that. Honestly all he could do was beat a drum....and The Rhumba and Conga line was dying out. It was Lucy who wanted Papa Freund, Lucy who had the hook ups in Hollywood. Desi had no idea about cameras and stuff. It was Lucy that became his inspiration for callaborating the three camera technique Live audience show. I give him credit for throwing the idea out to all these hollywood mudules and handeling business affairs , he was smart about that stuff and running a studio...but all that came to him because he was married to Lucy. If he wasn't married to her I highly doubt he would have gotten to where he did. Then when things would go wrong in that, he would drink and browse and gamble some more. Lucy gave up, she was at her wits end, what else could she do???Lucy gave him credit for all the behind the scenes stuff, and pushed herself aside, and said "no no I really don't know too much about that" She knew she did, she was always asking questions and learning from the time she got into Hollywood, but she gave Desi credit so it would build up his manly esteem....because she loved him and she felt bad for him.

If not for Lucy all of that stuff wouldn't have happned. It was Lucy that stood behind her man and let him grow some hollywood balls. And like they say behind every great man with a brilliant idea, is the woman who gave it to him.

I know when many fans think of Lucy , many cannot help but think of "Ricky" I love Lucy was THE BEST show that ever hit the TV airwaves....But Lucy was the star.....Desi even said so himself....soemone asked to divide the credits up for it...he said give Lucy 90% and leave 10% for the rest of us.....Lucy was the star, Bill Viv and I were just props, and good props, but props none the less......If anything happens to Lucy, amigo, we're all in the shrimp business. That is what Desi said. That is fine if they give him soem accolade for his efforts, but that is LUCY'S HOMETOWN, that is where Lucy grew up and where Lucy was born. That is her turf. It is one thing to call it the Lucy Desi museum....but they don't need to be building shrines and giving him a kety to the city. I mean they aren't doing taht for Viv and Bill, and they were a big part of the show. Gee Phillip Morris sponsered the show, should they move their headquarters from Virginia to Jamestown New York??? Jes Oppenheimer and teh writers were a big part of teh creativitry on tah show...lets make it their hometown too and give them bandshells and stufff. SHEEEESH!!!!

Lucy was a brilliant woman, I know that it is hard to beleive that a woman that beautiful...had brains and was brilliant, but it is true....why can't people just leave her alone???


Brilliant Post!! you said all of the things I had wanted to say. Thank you!!! :)

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
Honestly all he could do was beat a drum....

I don't buy that for a second.

If he wasn't married to her I highly doubt he would have gotten to where he did.

How do you know that? You weren't there and you can't rewrite history. That's just playing the "What-If" game and that's the most pointless game in the world.

He very well could have become a huge superstar musician. Or a Broadway star. Or he could have dropped from site. No one knows...that argument hold no water at all.

There is no such thing as would have, could have, should have. What was....was. That is all there is to it.

He was OK as an actor....I would not say brilliant. His claim to fame...other than being married to Lucy, was being a conga player. Argue with me if you will, but it is true. He was NOT in demand as an actor. He made those few films, Bataan, and a few others, and TOO MANY GIRLS ( he not only made the broadways show and was in the movie, but he made ita way of life) But by the 1940's the studios wanted NOTHING to do with him. The conga scene was slowly dying out. There were only so many films they could cast him in and then kappoots and he was off travelling with the band hyping the nightclub scene. By this time he was married to Lucy and seeing TOO MANY GIRLS on the side...Lucy wanted him to settle down and she was offered a show on TV an adaptaion of her radio show My Favorite Husband....but she wanted Desi to play her husband and the studio did not....because no one would ever beleive it. So LUCY had the brilliant idea of taking a vaudeville show on the road with her show's writers Madelyn and Bob and convinced CBS otherwise. It was Lucy's promotion and Lucy's persuasion and Lucy's position that got Desi's position. That went double for Gary many years later.

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
There is no such thing as would have, could have, should have. What was....was. That is all there is to it.

He was OK as an actor....I would not say brilliant. His claim to fame...other than being married to Lucy, was being a conga player. Argue with me if you will, but it is true. He was NOT in demand as an actor. He made those few films, Bataan, and a few others, and TOO MANY GIRLS ( he not only made the broadways show and was in the movie, but he made ita way of life) But by the 1940's the studios wanted NOTHING to do with him. The conga scene was slowly dying out. There were only so many films they could cast him in and then kappoots and he was off travelling with the band hyping the nightclub scene. By this time he was married to Lucy and seeing TOO MANY GIRLS on the side...Lucy wanted him to settle down and she was offered a show on TV an adaptaion of her radio show My Favorite Husband....but she wanted Desi to play her husband and the studio did not....because no one would ever beleive it. So LUCY had the brilliant idea of taking a vaudeville show on the road with her show's writers Madelyn and Bob and convinced CBS otherwise. It was Lucy's promotion and Lucy's persuasion and Lucy's position that got Desi's position. That went double for Gary many years later.

I never said he was Oscar material, but I think he had more talent as an actor than a lot of so-called stars today.

Originally posted by LUUCILLE BALL
You know darn well the reason.

No, I don't. Or didn't, whichever. I'm not a part of the fans' rumour mill and don't want to be. But if what you say is true, then so what? For years all the credit went to Lucy, now Lucie is redressing the balance a little. Why worry? Lucy is still the more famous one, nobody's going to forget her, so why does it matter? As for the rest of what you say, Desi could not just "beat a drum". He was a talented singer, and a genius of a band leader. The way he could get a joint rocking was astounding. He was a highly charismatic man, and proved to be a very talented television producer, whether or not he got there because of who he was married to.

As for:- Lucy was a brilliant woman, I know that it is hard to beleive that a woman that beautiful...had brains and was brilliant, but it is true....why can't people just leave her alone???

I'm not denying she was clever, or talented. Don't think she was particularly beautiful, but that's just a matter of opinion. Who's not leaving her alone? Except, apparently, for Lucie, who I've never heard dissing her, so I can't really comment. People have issues with their parents very often I'm afraid. It's a shame she's got a public forum for hers, but if she has a particular fondness for one of her parents, that's just the way it is. She's entitled to that opinion, and that preference, and I'm sure she doesn't really mean that much offence.

He was OK as an actor....I would not say brilliant.

And you think she was?! She was a talented clown, and physical comedian. Rather like Jerry Lewis perhaps. In fact there's a lot of similarities between screen Lucy and screen Jerry, including the often annoying childish voice. But beyond that? She wasn't any better an actor than Desi. They were both very good in the right places, and Desi proved himself pretty well in Bataan. So what if he wasn't in much demand after that? That's the way the cookie crumbles, and if Lucy hadn't had the sense to branch out into radio and TV she'd have gone the same way.

OY VEY! I'll have to get my thoughts together for this one, i'd better go have lunch first, because it the words of Ashley, this is going to be a dilly! Both Jen and Mickey make interesting comments, but both are a little lopsided, but Jen has got it right for the most part. Amazing that what people said about Desi back then is still being said a half century later!

Oh dear, I feel a Splain 'Lucy Defence' spiel coming on! :) Be fair, though - I know I'm a little lopsided in my defence of Desi, but most of the rest of you are lopsided in your defence of Lucy, so I'm just evening things up a little! ;)

For some strange reason, i think my answer's in another thread, the Gary one!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He was OK as an actor....I would not say brilliant.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



And you think she was?! She was a talented clown, and physical comedian. Rather like Jerry Lewis perhaps. In fact there's a lot of similarities between screen Lucy and screen Jerry, including the often annoying childish voice. But beyond that? She wasn't any better an actor than Desi. They were both very good in the right places, and Desi proved himself pretty well in Bataan. So what if he wasn't in much demand after that? That's the way the cookie crumbles, and if Lucy hadn't had the sense to branch out into radio and TV she'd have gone the same way.


Have you ever seen "The Big Street"? If you haven't, I definatly recommend it, because you'll see that Lucy wasn't only a comedian, she was a great dramatic actress as well. :)

Originally posted by Mickey
No, I don't. Or didn't, whichever. I'm not a part of the fans' rumour mill and don't want to be. But if what you say is true, then so what? For years all the credit went to Lucy, now Lucie is redressing the balance a little. Why worry? Lucy is still the more famous one, nobody's going to forget her, so why does it matter? As for the rest of what you say, Desi could not just "beat a drum". He was a talented singer, and a genius of a band leader. The way he could get a joint rocking was astounding. He was a highly charismatic man, and proved to be a very talented television producer, whether or not he got there because of who he was married to.

As for:-

I'm not denying she was clever, or talented. Don't think she was particularly beautiful, but that's just a matter of opinion. Who's not leaving her alone? Except, apparently, for Lucie, who I've never heard dissing her, so I can't really comment. People have issues with their parents very often I'm afraid. It's a shame she's got a public forum for hers, but if she has a particular fondness for one of her parents, that's just the way it is. She's entitled to that opinion, and that preference, and I'm sure she doesn't really mean that much offence.



And you think she was?! She was a talented clown, and physical comedian. Rather like Jerry Lewis perhaps. In fact there's a lot of similarities between screen Lucy and screen Jerry, including the often annoying childish voice. But beyond that? She wasn't any better an actor than Desi. They were both very good in the right places, and Desi proved himself pretty well in Bataan. So what if he wasn't in much demand after that? That's the way the cookie crumbles, and if Lucy hadn't had the sense to branch out into radio and TV she'd have gone the same way.

I have to say I agree with you, Mickey.

Thank You Amber and Splain. She WAS absolutly magnificiant in The Big Street....(she did do other things besides I love Lucy....but sadly people forget, or they don't read up on her like us real fans do.0 That proves she wasn't "just some clown" as Mickey air Drummer so drilly put it.If she had no talent why was she making all these movies, and radio shows, CBS wanted her and wanted top dollar for her to make their radio Show My Favorite Husband a Tv Show...THEY WANTED HER. Apparently somebody thought she had talent...and now more than 15 million people love her. She got to where she was by herself, It wasn't Desi who brought her fame with I Love Lucy...millions already knew her and when they saw her on their little black and white home screen for the first time the love affair blossomed from a small flower into a full fledged Botanical Garden. She knew her craft, and she did what she did well, and that is why millions and millions of people LOVE her. My BEST FRIENDS, one of whom I live close by to Have proven me right on that. Just as I am and Claude are, something attracts us to that lady that is just so unexplainable. She is so beutiful, had this most engaging personality and she had a good head on her shoulder, she wasn't just another Hollywood bimbo like you see now adays, she didn't depend on alcohol, like Joan Crawford, she didn't need drugs liek Judy Garland, and she was NOT in the same category as Jerry lewis. Sorry, But to me HE IS JUST ANOTHER CLOWN!!! But again Just a matter of opinion....and you know what they say about opinions......everyone has one. I cannot classify Lucy in any category...yes there are actresses thqt were beutiful, but Lucy stands alone. My two friends were talking last night, and It was brought up that Lucy's likeness has been seen by more people more often than ANYOTHER person in the world except Jesus. (At least she is in good company) It doesn't matter who, or where, but at some where in this world someone is watching I love Lucy or reading something about her or staring at her picture. I cannot think of any other person you can say that about in the entertainment industry. I have a close friend that works in teh travel industry, one night she was helping a passenger with some baggage discrepency, two african women came in and they were talking and all of a sudden my friend's cell phone started ringing, playing the I Love Lucy theme song. the African Women's face lit up and they continued talking in their Native tongue and amid their sentence came the words I Love Lucy. they may not have known how to speak English, but they sure enough knew I Love Lucy. On Ebay she has the most hits than any other item. But yet Mickey, you say she is just another actress. That is liek saying the Grand Canyon is just a whole in the ground.

As for Desi's singing talents. He was a hit at one time, Lucy once said he was the Elvis Presley of his time. But unfortunately the Latino music scene was dying out, cept for the nightclub scene, People stopped listening to it, and that is when Desi wasn't getting anymore hits. Lucy pulled him out of the rut. He got fame because she was Fame. I don't personally see how anyone can like Desi without Liking Lucy...I have never in my life heard such a thing. The only reason people know him at all is because of I Love Lucy...which if it weren't for Lucy's succesful efforts at proving to the American audiences and to CBS, I highly doubt anyone at all would know him for anything, unless tehy read a Lucy biography, if be the case he would be about as famous as Gary Morton, and beleive it or not, not many fans even acknowlege he was her husband, he ain't right, but he was her husband.

Lucie wants to even up teh score alittle to give him some credit...but she tears her mom down in the process. I can see a point in giving him some credit for The COLOSSAL Desilu empire...but it wasn't him alone. It was Lucy and Desi together...hence it is called Desilu, Not Desi Arnaz Productions.....Not Lucille Ball Productions (It didn't come till later on when she bought Desi out, because she just didn'
want to be a module anymore) Both of their efforts and pioneerism(is that a word?) and risks, they took them all together. Not to mention all the people (10000 strong) that put their efforts in to. Lucy NEVER took the credit for herself, nor did Desi. Lucy was the one who if you will ...coin a phrase...got the Ball rolling. Desi helped to keep it going,he picked up on things and learned things well...and that is where his talent truly shows....but if it weren't for Lucy he would never have even been acknowleged for that. and Lucy never forgot Desi, or the writers or the technical people and the business affairs people, and Desi knew it was because of Lucy that Desilu was a reality. Neither of them were selfish about the credit. People understand that now because there are books and interviews on tape with Lucy and desi in seprate occasions talking about their huge success, and it is touching to see how they do care so much about eachother that till both their dying days they seem to pass the buck on one another about credit. In Fact Carole Cook tells a good story, abouyt when Desi and Lucy split up, Lucy was being interviewed and the interviewer kept saying "Oh why should you worry Lucy you are this big woman you have buiilt this major studio and kept it al together , by yourself you know what you were doing...." and as sad and upset as Lucy was about the divorce to a man she loved whole heartedly, she snapped her fingers and shot back "That's where you're wrong!!!!! I may have been famous and had the name and I know my craft, but Desi kept it together."

So we already know that Desi had genius behind the scenes, but Lucie insists on building him up more and more, and pushing her mom out of the way, like she doesn't deserve some of the spotlight....seems like a tit-for-tat thing.....Daddy was out of the spotlight, now lets shed light on him and push you away so you can get the jist of it.
I Like the way JaneTvFan effectively quotes in her thread...and Jane may I quote you if I will....Lucy and Desi are dead, get over it!!!! The credit doesn't matter to them anymore.

oh gawd, i don't even know where to start..*tries to calm down*
*takes deep breath* First off, I think Desi has every right to be honored in Jamestown just as much as Lucy...
Most of her fans are ILL fans, and what a shock it would be and going down there and not seeing Desi's name..thats kinda ridiculous. If it wasn't for Desi, I know Lucy woudn't have been as successful as she would have been. Quit giving Lucy all the credit, LUCILLE BALL.
*takes another breath and hope everybody doesn't get mad*

By the way, *newsflash* there ARE Desi fans out there you know!

Originally posted by crazyredhead
oh gawd, i don't even know where to start..*tries to calm down*
*takes deep breath* First off, I think Desi has every right to be honored in Jamestown just as much as Lucy...
Most of her fans are ILL fans, and what a shock it would be and going down there and not seeing Desi's name..thats kinda ridiculous. If it wasn't for Desi, I know Lucy woudn't have been as successful as she would have been. Quit giving Lucy all the credit, LUCILLE BALL.
*takes another breath and hope everybody doesn't get mad*

Yes, but isn't it also just as fair to question how successful Desi would have been if it weren't for Lucy? I'm not saying that Desi was talentless at all. He was sexy, charismatic, and a good musician. But if Lucy hadn't insisted that Desi be in the show, where would his career have gone after the nightclub business died down?

By the way, *newsflash* there ARE Desi fans out there you know!

Many of us here ARE Desi fans just as well as Lucy fans. Just because we don't agree with everything he did or didn't do, or just because some more readily defend Lucy, doesn't mean that we don't like him. :)

I didn't say Lucy didn't help his career, because you're right, without her, his career wouldn't have gone down the drain and probably their marriage too. Thank God she did get him on the show, I can't imagine no Ricky Ricardo, or someone else being him. lol But ILL probably wouldn't have been as successful if he wasn't on there.

I just don't get it either, that ya'll are stuck on Desi's cheating and drinking and stuff...lol There would be alot more peace on this board if it's not mentioned anymore. I don't really care about it..I mean it wasn't my life, even though I do feel for Lucy. And I was shocked and had mixed feelings about Desi..but now, I just kid around with myself about it when I'm watching ILL. I talk to Lucy and Desi alot when I'm watching ILL. :lol:

I guess for me, I just really feel for Lucy. I truly LOVE LUCY. I am a fan in every essence of the word. I just can't imagine her being in pain. Desi was teh LOVE of her life. Look at pictures of them together and the ways he looks at him and the ways he looks at her. But I cannot fathom somebody loving someone so much the way they say they do...and then going off and hurting them. It just doesn't make any kind of sense to me at all.

No I cannot picture anyone else to play Lucy's TV husband. He was the only man to pley her husband. That is why Lucy wanted him on I Love Lucy. At that time no one could picture him, a Cuban Conga Player, to be a wife to this Real Life Red-Blooded American woman. But she convinced everyone otherwise, and no many years later, we find ourselves saying we cannot think of anyone but this Cuban Conga Player to ber her husband. On Her other shows she didn't have a husband. She probably knew at that point no one could picture her without him. So I agree with you there. But If it weren't for her we would not be saying that now 50 years later. Do you get wehre I am coming from. It is because of Lucy that we accpeted Desi. She promoted his chance. He couldn't have gotten there by himself, because no one wanted him to begin with.

Has anyone here besides myself and a few others who have had athe pleasure of hearing Lucy's Radio Show, My Favorite Husband? I Love Lucy was based on that. Anyways, Like many other Younger NeoGeneration Lucy Philes, I saw I love Lucy before I ever heard My Favorite Husband, and hearing Richard Denning as her husband was all too weird for me. I actualy saw The Lucy Show before I saw I Love Lucy, and fell in Love with Lucy on that, so when I saw I Love Lucy, and saw her with a husband that spoke with an accent it was weird for me then too...but not as strange as seeing , or hearing rather, Lucy with a totally different" straightman" Desi was a terrific straghtman to Lucy. His Conga playing really gave him a good apature for that role, and made the show outsatnding among anyother Tv show in history He did have something there. But Lucy was the one that directed everyone's attentions to him, he could have never been Ricky without Lucy. Lucy could do anything by herself, she has proven that in all of her shows and movies, because she was Lucy. But if it came down to recreating I Love Lucy all over again but without Desi being Ricky. It would really be difficult for us as fans to see it that way, even though it did happen at one point, Not on Tv, but on the radio.

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
It doesn't matter who, or where, but at some where in this world someone is watching I love Lucy or reading something about her or staring at her picture. I cannot think of any other person you can say that about in the entertainment industry.

Well they say all that about Star Trek actually, and I've seen people of different nationalities brought together by the Star Trek theme music as well. And Star Trek, IMHO, is dreadful, so this is nothing to be excited about! Seriously though, I seem to have offended you somewhere along the line, Lucille, and I'm sorry about that, though I'm no way apologising for my opinions. From watching the TV show - their private lives are of no interest to me - I like Desi best. He's the one who makes me laugh more, I love his music and the way he plays drums. I don't tend to enjoy Lucy's movies, and I have seen a lot of them. I don't care that Desi cheated or drank. Maybe he was weak, maybe he was a jerk, but so what? Not being a part of their inner circle this doesn't affect me. People aren't saints, and loads of them drink. This doesn't make them bad people. Some fight back, some don't. Congratulations to Lucy for not turning to drink or drugs - but if she had, my opinion of her wouldn't be different. I think no less of Martin Sheen for having been a drug addict once, and I've heard him speak eloquently on the subject of why you can't judge people who are, unless you've been there yourself.

Oh, and I didn't say Lucy was "just some clown". I said she was a "talented clown." I was trying to pay her a compliment. She had great timing, and was a very talented physical comedian; but I still find Desi funnier. I don't care who made who, who deserves the most credit, or who has a memorial where. I just think Desi was best, and I'll stick up for him when people knock him for reasons I don't think are fair. Strangely enough cheating on your wife doesn't make you a bad person. It makes you a bad husband - there's a difference. You get immense fulfilment from your enjoyment of Lucy's performances, and that's great, and I won't knock that. There are other famous people that I feel the same way about. I just don't see this the same way you do, obviously.

Boy, this place has hotted up the last few days, hasn't it? Have you been planting ringers to get us all chatting again, dawsongirl?! :lol:

Yes but how can anyone justify cheating on their wife? It is wrong!! It does make you a bad person unless you can humble yourself and admit you were wrong.

Obviously we have some major differences here. Maybe the cultures, I don't know, I do realize your are from England, and maybe things are more tolerable there....maybe it is the times we live in that people are the more tolerable of these things. I was raised by my grandparents and they came out of the 40's and 50's when those things went against what being a good person was.

Drinking in acess does not make you a bad person, some people are so addicted to it, they feel they can't help it but they can. Some people however let it go so bad it absorbs their life. That is when it does not make it good. That is what Desi did.

Still I cannot fathom any one liking Desi more than Lucy...or likeing Desi, and NOT liking Lucy at all. Almost like saying you like Abbott more than Costello, or Sonny more than Cher.
I gues to each his own though! Sad commentary.

What do you mean you can't fathom anyone liking Desi more?? lol
That's kinda offensive, deep down inside I love Desi more. I don't know why really, I just do...And I know LOTS more people who do!
I still love Lucy though! They both rawk!

Very well said, Mickey!

Redhead, I think that's really cool how much you love Desi and stick up for him. Like LUCILLE BALL said before, to each is own. I admit that I'm a bigger fan of Lucy's, I really LOVE her, and like you defend Desi, I'll defend Lucy, but Desi's great too! I love them both. :)

Originally posted by Ricardos4ever
Desi should have recognized the warning signs then!


PLEASE!!!!!!! SHE should have seen the signs of a drunken cheat! If she hit him, I say he deserved it. Look at what he did to her! Poor thing.

Sorry all I am gonna say is Lucy made his career last. If not for her he would have been going back to cleaning canary cages and that is the truth. But she loved him so much, she pushed for CBS to accept him, The world loved Lucy...and the last time I checked the name of the show was I love Lucy not I love Desi.

Originally posted by Mickey
She wasn't any better an actor than Desi.


WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You obviously haven't seen many Lucy movies. The woman could act and was believable. Go watch the Big Street and then come back and post.

Originally posted by dawsongirl
I have to say I agree with you, Mickey.

You need to go watch "I Love Dawson". Lucille Ball was a GENIUS and not only in comedy!

Thank You OnlyOneLucy,It's nice to know I am not alone here. Thought I was going around in circles there for a while. Some people just ain't right!!! At least if they Love Desi more than Lucy.

What gets me is when people say he sang good. HA!! :lol: The man had NO talent when it came to singing. Stop and listen to his voice. :rolleyes: And how in the world they can say that he is funnier than Lucy? That's just plain rediculous. Have you ever heard anyone sayinag , "The world's greatest comedian....Desi Arnaz"? :lol: Take a poll. People see me with a Lucy shirt on and they say, "Oh, I love Lucy too. She was the absolute funniest person who ever lived. The woman could definitely do comedy!" I don't hear them say "OH! I love Desi! He was so funny! He was the best!"

Good LAWD!!!!!!! :mad:

Furthermore, she was the most beautiful woman who ever lived. Look at her studio shots in the '40's. WOW!

Originally posted by onlyonelucy
What gets me is when people say he sang good. HA!! :lol: The man had NO talent when it came to singing. Stop and listen to his voice. :rolleyes: And how in the world they can say that he is funnier than Lucy? That's just plain rediculous. Have you ever heard anyone sayinag , "The world's greatest comedian....Desi Arnaz"? :lol: Take a poll. People see me with a Lucy shirt on and they say, "Oh, I love Lucy too. She was the absolute funniest person who ever lived. The woman could definitely do comedy!" I don't hear them say "OH! I love Desi! He was so funny! He was the best!"

Good LAWD!!!!!!! :mad:

Sherry, I think you have gone over the brink. Seeing as how I admire both Lucy and Desi I cannot understand why you go onto this board (or any others for that matter). You discourage any type of discussion and you don't seem to realise that your opinions are not necessarily solid fact. Mickey said, "She wasn't any better an actor than Desi." And you replied courteously with "WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! " It doesn't do anything to enhance discussion, it merely proves that you do not have the couth to accept the ideas of anybody else. As for your "Go watch I Love Dawson" remark . . . that was a ridiculously hostile thing to say.

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
but sadly people forget, or they don't read up on her like us real fans do.

Hmm. So if you don't read everything there is out there to read, you're not a "real" fan. Interesting.

I'll have to come back when I've got more time and can answer some of this properly, but for now Lucille Ball - I do like Sonny more than Cher. I also like Dino more than Jerry Lewis, Cannon more than Ball (although these days I doubt I'd like either of them) and Wise more than Morecambe. So what?

Originally posted by Mickey
Boy, this place has hotted up the last few days, hasn't it? Have you been planting ringers to get us all chatting again, dawsongirl?! :lol:

I'm not taking credit for any of this!

Originally posted by Mickey
I'll have to come back when I've got more time and can answer some of this properly, but for now Lucille Ball - I do like Sonny more than Cher. I also like Dino more than Jerry Lewis, Cannon more than Ball (although these days I doubt I'd like either of them) and Wise more than Morecambe. So what?

Maybe you wanna get it out now. This thread's getting shut down.

Originally posted by crazyredhead
What do you mean you can't fathom anyone liking Desi more?? lol
That's kinda offensive, deep down inside I love Desi more. I don't know why really, I just do...And I know LOTS more people who do!
I still love Lucy though! They both rawk!

Very well said, Mickey!

It is offensive, and frankly, I'm getting entirely sick of these die-hard Lucille fans bashing Desi fans. Be die-hard all you want, that's not the problem, but for God's sake...IT'S AN OPINION! No one can bash someone's opinion, ever.

This was an interesting discussion until the childishness came in.

Originally posted by onlyonelucy
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You obviously haven't seen many Lucy movies. The woman could act and was believable. Go watch the Big Street and then come back and post.

And what if that doesn't change Mickey's mind? Then what are you going to do?

Originally posted by onlyonelucy
You need to go watch "I Love Dawson".

:lol: You know, I would if I could. I really would. Because frankly, I haven't met any Richard Dawson fans who were so obsessed that they can't see reality anymore, unlike Lucy fans. Being a big fan is one thing, but seriously...:lol: I really should feel sorry for you...feeling so insecure, that once a person agrees with something you don't, especially if it's against Saint Lucy, you immediately come up with some childish comeback like "Go watch I Love Dawson." You are an adult, right?

Originally posted by LUCILLE BALL
Thank You OnlyOneLucy,It's nice to know I am not alone here. Thought I was going around in circles there for a while. Some people just ain't right!!! At least if they Love Desi more than Lucy.

And you're the gatekeeper into Heaven, right? Desi fans immediately go to Hell?

Originally posted by bweir
Sherry, I think you have gone over the brink. Seeing as how I admire both Lucy and Desi I cannot understand why you go onto this board (or any others for that matter). You discourage any type of discussion and you don't seem to realise that your opinions are not necessarily solid fact. Mickey said, "She wasn't any better an actor than Desi." And you replied courteously with "WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! " It doesn't do anything to enhance discussion, it merely proves that you do not have the couth to accept the ideas of anybody else. As for your "Go watch I Love Dawson" remark . . . that was a ridiculously hostile thing to say.

Thank you. At least someone around here is thinking with a level head.



Everyone say goodbye to this thread.