Hi, Gang,
Don't the Petries strike you as decent, moral, generous, upstanding people? Me too. It makes me wonder about their religious beliefs, since religion is usually the basis for one's morality.
For those of you who are not Jewish, I can tell you that the show is awash in Jewish references. From the name of the never seen neighbor, "Sadie Stein," to the numerous Jewish and Yiddish phrases uttered on the show, to the obviously Jewish "Buddy Sorrel," Judaism is very well represented. But the Petries themselves are not Jewish.
Laura strikes me as having been raised Catholic, for some reason, although she and Rob do not appear to be Catholic currently. Rob, on the other hand, doesn't appear to be of any religion in particular, off hand.
What do you think? I know it's not stated, but how do you think the Petries would worship if it was?

Steve

A very interesting observation. When I think back to when I watched the show, it always seemed they would be Presbyterians. Although I know nothing about that religion, it seemed very Waspy and thats how Laura and Rob seemed--very white middles class Americas.
Now I'm wondering about other sit-coms of the 50s and 60s. What church did Andy of Mayberry go to? How about Lucy and Ricky? Nah--can't imagine them in a church, not funny enough. The Cleavers? The Andersons?

Originally posted by cablejockey
A very interesting observation. When I think back to when I watched the show, it always seemed they would be Presbyterians. Although I know nothing about that religion, it seemed very Waspy and thats how Laura and Rob seemed--very white middles class Americas.
Now I'm wondering about other sit-coms of the 50s and 60s. What church did Andy of Mayberry go to? How about Lucy and Ricky? Nah--can't imagine them in a church, not funny enough. The Cleavers? The Andersons?

Being a very devoted Christian myself, I've often wondered and speculated about such things. I do have quite a good working knowledge of all the different denominations in Christianity, and will offer the following thoughts:

1) The Petries - you beat me to the punch on the "Presbyterian" label. I'd definitely say that's what kind of church they would attend, if any. Not too "fundamental" or "strict", and kinda "ceremonial". Seems like the right fit for them.

2) The Ricardo's - I can't see them in any church, other than a possible visit from time to time in a Catholic setting.

3) The Mayberrians - Andy's little church in Mayberry is a definite reflection of his religious upbringing. Andy actually thought about becoming a minister, and I believe he would have been a Methodist. So something along those lines for Mayberry's "All Soul's Church" that the Taylor's attended would be correct.

4) The Cleavers - As with Andy Griffith, Hugh Beaumont (Ward Cleaver) was actually an ordained Methodist minister in his early years before the show. So I believe a Methodist Church, or possibly even a Baptist Church, would have been an appropriate place of worship for them.

5) The Andersons - It's been a while since I've seen more than the handful of episodes that TVLand showed last year, so my memory is foggy with them. But I'd guess something like a Methodist or Baptist background for the family would be about right.

B&W "I've never belonged to any the above denominations, so I have no prejudice in my opinions on this" fan

There are many references to religion in the Petrie home. In "The Life and Loves of Joe Coogan," Laura learns that a former boyfriend is a Catholic priest and at the end of the program, realizes that the sonnets he wrote to her were about God and he was trying to tell her that he was going to devote his life to God. In "Never Bathe on Saturday," Rob and Laura don't go in to the show because at the theater they ran into their minister and "half the flock" and Rob still had on his painted-on moustache. (Love that episode!) In "The Attempted Marriage" they try to have their wedding in a church (twice!). I believe they are Protestant, though what denomination is not clear.

I love the fact the the show is "awash" in Jewishness. It shows that Carl Reiner is not ashamed of his roots and not intimidated by social prejudices of the time. Though I am not Jewish, I love the Jewish people. I love being around them, I love their culture. Maybe it's one of the reasons I love TDVDS so much!!! One of my favorite scenes is in "The Bottom of Mel Cooley's Heart" near the end when Alan is trying to avoid telling Mel his is re-hired. He is telling him to order 4 corned beef sandwiches. When Mel asks if they want them on white bread or rye, Alan explodes. " Rye!!! White bread!? Corned beef on white bread!? Where were you brought up!?" I love that line. And in the same episode Alan says to Rob, "So you really want Mel back, Mr. Christian?" and Buddy says "So does Mr. Jewish." Or in "The Ugliest Dog" when Rob tries to give the dog milk with his corned beef sandwich. Buddy says, "Milk with corned beef? That ain't kosher! It's cream soda or nothing!!"

It makes me laugh just to think of these episodes and their significance.

I cannot WAIT for the dvds to come out!!!!


Lolac :lol: :loveya: :dog: patriot:

BTW, Steve. Even though I'm not Jewish, I have noticed the many, many Jewish references in the show. I've often wondered what the source of that was. Were some of the writers Jewish?

It's interesting. And fun!

B&W "Maybe Rob and Laura converted when they went to Buddy's Bar Mitzva (sp.?)" fan :lol:

Originally posted by B&W fan
BTW, Steve. Even though I'm not Jewish, I have noticed the many, many Jewish references in the show. I've often wondered what the source of that was. Were some of the writers Jewish?

It's interesting. And fun!

B&W "Maybe Rob and Laura converted when they went to Buddy's Bar Mitzva (sp.?)" fan :lol:


Carl Reiner is proudly Jewish! Lolac :wave:

Originally posted by Lolac
There are many references to religion in the Petrie home. In "The Life and Loves of Joe Coogan," Laura learns that a former boyfriend is a Catholic priest and at the end of the program, realizes that the sonnets he wrote to her were about God and he was trying to tell her that he was going to devote his life to God. In "Never Bathe on Saturday," Rob and Laura don't go in to the show because at the theater they ran into their minister and "half the flock" and Rob still had on his painted-on moustache. (Love that episode!) In "The Attempted Marriage" they try to have their wedding in a church (twice!). I believe they are Protestant, though what denomination is not clear.

I love the fact the the show is "awash" in Jewishness. It shows that Carl Reiner is not ashamed of his roots and not intimidated by social prejudices of the time. Though I am not Jewish, I love the Jewish people. I love being around them, I love their culture. Maybe it's one of the reasons I love TDVDS so much!!! One of my favorite scenes is in "The Bottom of Mel Cooley's Heart" near the end when Alan is trying to avoid telling Mel his is re-hired. He is telling him to order 4 corned beef sandwiches. When Mel asks if they want them on white bread or rye, Alan explodes. " Rye!!! White bread!? Corned beef on white bread!? Where were you brought up!?" I love that line. And in the same episode Alan says to Rob, "So you really want Mel back, Mr. Christian?" and Buddy says "So does Mr. Jewish." Or in "The Ugliest Dog" when Rob tries to give the dog milk with his corned beef sandwich. Buddy says, "Milk with corned beef? That ain't kosher! It's cream soda or nothing!!"

It makes me laugh just to think of these episodes and their significance.

I cannot WAIT for the dvds to come out!!!!


Lolac :lol: :loveya: :dog: patriot:

All good points, Lolac! I agree wholeheartedly with you! I wasn't sure if Carl was Jewish or not, so I didn't want to step out and be wrong. But it makes sense to me. And I too love the Jewish people (as a Christian, how can I not?). Forget the stereotypical "Archie Bunkers" of the world. That's not true religion, in any form!

B&W "the O.T. is as exciting as the N.T. for me" fan

Originally posted by B&W fan
B&W "I've never belonged to any the above denominations, so I have no prejudice in my opinions on this" fan

Just to be sure I'm not misunderstood, I don't mean anything negative by the above statement concerning different denominations. I just wanted to point out that while I can appreciate aspects of all of them, I'm not a member of any one that I named, and therefore I'm not being biased when I give my opinions on the possible church affliations of any of the fictional families mentioned.

B&W "you have to be real careful with 'religion' topics, because folks can take you wrong and get offended real easy - and I don't want that" fan

Originally posted by Lolac
Or in "The Ugliest Dog" when Rob tries to give the dog milk with his corned beef sandwich. Buddy says, "Milk with corned beef? That ain't kosher! It's cream soda or nothing!!"

It makes me laugh just to think of these episodes and their significance.

I cannot WAIT for the dvds to come out!!!!




I forgot! At the end of this exchange, as Buddy is pouring the dog some cream soda, Sally says, "I think he's trying to kill him." Rob says, "He's trying to convert him!"

:rofl: I love the subtleties in this show!! They are so funny!!!


Lolac :dog:

I can't wait for the dvds either, Lolac! But we are still over 2 and 1/2 months away. Time is moving so slow now..................... :wallbang :whistle: :bored:


B&W "at least we get the first two seasons at the same time" fanparty:

Originally posted by B&W fan
Were some of the writers Jewish?
Sorry to take so long to respond, B&W Fan.
Yes, some writers were Jewish. Of course Carl is Jewish, the creator and original writer for the show, but there was also Garry Marshall, and although I'm not positive, either Persky and/or Denoff. Possibly Jerry Belson too.
Some of the co-stars and guest stars were Jewish as well. There's Morey, of course, but also Marty Ingolls, who played Rob's Army buddy, Sol Palmeroy. Then there's Don Rickles, who played hold up man, Lyle Delp. Jack Carter, who played the annoying Neil Schenk. Ina Balin, who played the art teacher who made a play for Rob's affection. And I suppose Executive Producer, Sheldon Leonard shouldn't be left out.
That's just a partial list.

Steve

Originally posted by SawgrassSteve
Sorry to take so long to respond, B&W Fan.
Yes, some writers were Jewish. Of course Carl is Jewish, the creator and original writer for the show, but there was also Garry Marshall, and although I'm not positive, either Persky and/or Denoff. Possibly Jerry Belson too.

Actually, Garry Marshall is not Jewish -- he's a Catholic of Italian descent. His father, Tony Marshall (a producer on "Laverne and Shirley) changed the family name from Marschiarelli after moving to the US.

Originally posted by TV Guy
Actually, Garry Marshall is not Jewish...
Well, TV Guy, you may know something I don't. Of course, it would'nt be the first time I was wrong about something, but in this particular case, I'd be in good company. The Marshalls have been generally thought to be Jewish for decades, throughout Hollywood! Check this source and you'll see what I mean, Jewish Actors & Directors (http://www.cinerhama.com/jewish/actors.html)
Thanks.

Steve

Originally posted by TV Guy
Actually, Garry Marshall is not Jewish...
Well, TV Guy, you may know something I don't. Of course, it would'nt be the first time I was wrong about something, but in this particular case, I'd be in good company. The Marshalls have been generally thought to be Jewish for decades, throughout Hollywood! Check this source and you'll see what I mean, Jewish Actors & Directors (http://www.cinerhama.com/jewish/actors.html)
Thanks.

Steve

Hi SawgrassSteve ~
Religion is such a touchy topic, as B&W fan mentioned, especially these days, but in the interest of honesty and fair debate, I would like to comment on your statement that "religion is usually the basis for one's morality" . . .

For a long time, people have automatically judged others based on their religious beliefs. In other words, if it's known that you are a Christian, you must no doubt be a good and decent person. But if you're a non-believer, you surely have no morals or ethics. Wouldn't you agree that's how society judges? I think it's very unfair of anyone to make such assumptions, to place so much significance on religion, and to perhaps falsely judge or discriminate based on that factor. I more often hear of bad things done by religious people than by non-believers; look at what's happening in the world today: a perpetuation of wars, too often motivated strictly by religious zeal or at least with a strong undercurrent of such, that have grown in numbers and violence since the beginning of civilization - just more divisive than ever due to increased populations and more aggressive behaviors within the human species.

I do think that more and more are choosing atheism, agnosticism, and freethought - believing that freedom from religion is every bit as important as freedom of religion. Just my two cents worth there, as I get miffed whenever someone judges another's character based on religious views.

As to the basis of your question: Actually, although I know there were references to religion in DVD, I don't think their religious beliefs - or non-beliefs - were at all pivotal to who they were. They just seemed like a couple devoted to one another, to their child, their home, their traditional roles in life.

Peace ~

Originally posted by goldie
Hi SawgrassSteve ~
Religion is such a touchy topic, as B&W fan mentioned, especially these days, but in the interest of honesty and fair debate, I would like to comment on your statement that "religion is usually the basis for one's morality" . . .

Peace ~

In the interest of conserving space, I didn't copy your entire post. I did, however, want to reference it and say "thank you" and I agree.

I agree with Goldie and Tvgen. Its not really important to me what religion that are. Religion doesn't make a person.

And I shared this post with my friend Vee, a DVD fan...she (in a complete joking manner, of course) has decided The Petries are Morman. And I agree. :D

Originally posted by goldie
Hi SawgrassSteve ~
Actually, although I know there were references to religion in DVD, I don't think their religious beliefs - or non-beliefs - were at all pivotal to who they were. They just seemed like a couple devoted to one another, to their child, their home, their traditional roles in life.

Peace ~
Hi, Goldie,
What you say is true, at least in my personal experiences. And yes, we should be as free from religion in this country, as we are to practice it, otherwise there is no freedom. What I would truely like to see, however, is an all inclusiveness that will likely not take place in my lifetime.
I've had the priveledge over the last 20 years of working with people from all over the world, and several diverse religious backgrounds, some countries and religions so remote, the average American may never have even heard of it before. I also know and work with Atheists and Agnostics. One common thread that runs through all the religions, as far as I can tell, is 'devotion to God, benevolence to man.' For the Atheists and Agnostics you can scratch off the 'devotion to God' part. And yes, the "unkind" come in all races, colors, religions, genders, and age groups. But most people are, I find, pretty decent.
Anyway, back to the subject of this board. The Petries, based on their fictionalized histories, were probably raised to belive in God, but you have a point. When you break it all down, that may not be the basis for their decency.
Goldie, I share your Utopian Dream. And "Peace" back atcha! Or, as we say, "Shalom."

Steve

Hi Steve, how are you? Haven't "talked" to you in awhile.

Thanks for the gracious response. You never know when you reply to something about religion because it can spark all kinds of reactions, many times not such great ones. So I'm glad when people can discuss this without the fireworks and flaming and such.

I had a feeling you would understand the Utopian Dream, so . . . . . . .
may I say: "Shalom" back atcha . . . ?

Shalom.


goldie

********************************

TVgen62: Thank you. :wave:


Peace all ~

Originally posted by BlueEyesKid

...she (in a complete joking manner, of course) has decided The Petries are Morman. And I agree. :D


:rofl: LOLOLOLOL, BlueEyesKid!!!! I wonder what caused your friend to come to that conclusion! You see, I am a Mormon, and I'll tell you why I don't think Rob and Laura are. 1. They drink coffee and tea, which we don't. 2. They smoke, which we don't. And 3. They only have one child! We Mormons are known for having VERY large families (though my husband and I only have three!) I feel flattered, though, to have our church associated with such people as Rob and Laura Petrie. Thanks for the compliment!

Lolac :loveya:

Originally posted by goldie
Hi Steve, how are you?
...I'm glad when people can discuss this without the fireworks and flaming and such...


goldie

Hi, Goldie! I'm doing fine, thanks.
You'll never get fireworks out of me just because someone's opinion is different from mine. I'm just not that arrogant. Besides, I put people first, not doctrine. Even as much as I believe as I do, it's possible that I could be wrong in my views, though I endeavor not to be.
But Goldie, isn't it great that people from so many different backgrounds and ideologies can come together in a sense of harmony and fellowship as we all do here on TDVDS message board? I really get a kick out of that! And encouragement. It proves that people can find a reason to love and to share, just as well as to hate and divide.
That's one step toward Utopia, and one more great thing we can atrribute to the genius of Carl Reiner, and the magic of The Dick Van Dyke Show.

Steve

Originally posted by Lolac
:rofl: LOLOLOLOL, BlueEyesKid!!!! I wonder what caused your friend to come to that conclusion! You see, I am a Mormon, and I'll tell you why I don't think Rob and Laura are. 1. They drink coffee and tea, which we don't. 2. They smoke, which we don't. And 3. They only have one child! We Mormons are known for having VERY large families (though my husband and I only have three!) I feel flattered, though, to have our church associated with such people as Rob and Laura Petrie. Thanks for the compliment!

Lolac :loveya:

LOL Omg Lolac! I think she just said it 'cause it was the first religion that came into her head! But she says:

":wave: You're welcome!"

Glad to have made you laugh!

Originally posted by SawgrassSteve
But Goldie, isn't it great that people from so many different backgrounds and ideologies can come together in a sense of harmony and fellowship as we all do here on TDVDS message board? I really get a kick out of that! And encouragement. It proves that people can find a reason to love and to share, just as well as to hate and divide.
That's one step toward Utopia, and one more great thing we can atrribute to the genius of Carl Reiner, and the magic of The Dick Van Dyke Show.

Steve


:nod:


peacesign: