After Lucy's original writers left after the 2nd season of TLS in 1964, quite a few different writers were hired from that point forward, all the way to 1974. However, there were a few permanent writers/teams, and I'm just wondering who actually wrote the most, other than Carrol/Martin/Weiskopf/Schiller...

-Bob O'Brien
-Milt Josefsberg & Ray Singer
-Fred S. Fox & Seaman Jacobs
-etc...

So, does anyone know the figures? Who do you think wrote the funnier shows? Fox & Jacobs wrote quite a few eps of HL, especially in the last season, but many were so-so, Josefsberg & Singer wrote hundreds of episodes, from the mid 60s-mid 70s, some were classic, others were mediocre...Bob O'Brien also wrote many eps for both series, often with so-so results as well...

I'm not a Bob O'Brien fan by any means(lol), but I think he had some pretty good scripts. Some could be called classic (IMO)


Referencing my trusty The Lucy Book for the episode titles (I can't stand the over critical author of this book...have to include that each time I mention the book,lol).



The Lucy Show

Lucy and George Burns
Lucy Goes To London
Lucy Gets A Roomate (Carol Burnett episode, as if you didn't know already)
Lucy and Carol In Palm Springs
Lucy and John Wayne
Lucy's Subsititute Secretary
Viv Vists Lucy
Main Street USA
Lucy Puts Main Street On The Map
Lucy And Tennessee Ernie Ford
Lucy Meets The Berles


Here's Lucy

Lucy's Working Daughter
Lucy and Carol Burnett (The Musical, in which Lucy and Carol help Lucie and Craig raise money for a new school gym...Love this episode)
Dirty Gertie
Lucy and Uncle Harry's Pot (HILARIOUS episode, IMO)
Lucy Carter Meets Lucille Ball
Lucy Fights The System (last "Here's Lucy" episode)

Alot of Bob O'Brien penned episodes from the first three seasons of "The Lucy Show" I haven't seen in a while (or haven't seen them at all), that's why I didn't include them.

I'll give you Fox and Jacobs, reviewing some of their episodes (in the book), yeah some were so-so, but I remember one classic HL Fox and Jacobs script "Lucy Punctured Romance" (well maybe not classic, but a GREAT episode, nonetheless).

Many of Josefsberg and Singer's scripts were pretty good though. Maybe a few clinkers, but for the most part they usually on point, IMO.

I'm also stumped about something in the book, now that you bring it up. It says that "Lucy and the French Movie Star" from 67-68 was written by Ray Singer, yet in the opening credits of the episode it credits Bob O'Brien as having written it. This is one of my fave eps. Her drunk bit is absolutely excellent, right below, if not better than Vitameatavegamin, IMO...she's just priceless and the lines are very wacky & funny...the author chides this episode, but I think it's awesome. The first time I watched it may have been the loudest and hardest I've ever laughed at anything - it's hysterical! That's why I wonder who truly wrote it. I'd have to actually believe the opening credits, unless they were mixed up with a different ep...

I too queried the validity of the Writer's credits in Geoffrey Mark Fidelman's book, and wrote to tell him so in 1999. I noted that there are 17 Episodes of "The Lucy Show" with incorrect credits listed in his episode guide, and one episode of "Here's Lucy" that was listed with an incorrect writer. I emailed him a complete overhaul of credits for the episodes in question (taken from the on screen credits for those episodes, whcih I had cross-referenced from previous notations of Writers and Directors).

His emailed response in March 2000 was: "Geoff, Thanks for your thoughtful correspondence about my book. Yes, I did recieve it and am keeping it on file for the next edition. As far as "Lucy Show" writers go, we have a big problem. The writers listed on the sydicated copies of the show are NOT the writers listed with the Writer's Guild and are not necessarily the same ones as the Original broadcasts. Also, Viacom's writer's listings are different from both. So I decided to go along with the ones from the Writers Guild, which was supported by my editor and Lucie Arnaz".

All fine, except the evidence speaks for itself. The onscreen credits listed on the various episodes in question (including "The French Movie Star") are correct with what ended up on-screen.
Regardless of what Fidelman says, the prints are syndicated the same way by Paramount Television/VIACOM, all over the globe.

ie. Why would they change the prints anyway?

If anyone is interested in the corrections, post here and I will attempt to list them correctly so you can make a note in your own personal copies of the book!

Getting back to the original topic, all of the writing teams listed penned classic episodes, some better than others, but whilst Bob O'Brien had previous sitcom experience ("Mister Ed" for example),
Milt Josefsberg was basically a gag writer, not a situation writer and many Josefsberg-Singer contributions were quite weak. Fox-Jacobs had some hilarious stories, but another team that wrote quite a few (and were IMO less successful) were the team of Larry Rhine and Lou Derman. All writing teams supported Lucille Ball and were loyal to their boss, but sometimes let her down with substandard scripts.

If anyone is interested in the corrections, post here and I will attempt to list them correctly so you can make a note in your own personal copies of the book!


Feel free to, I would certainely be interested in seeing that info.


many Josefsberg-Singer contributions were quite weak.

I beg to differ, I'm not going to list all of there contributions to "The Lucy Show" and "Here's Lucy", but alot of there scripts were more than acceptable.

I agree about Josefsberg & Singer - most of their stories turned out pretty good...I would also be interested to know the "original writers" for the shows that you were talking about, although in about 99% of the TLS eps I've seen, the book & show match...

Firstly, let me just add this thought to my original opinion in an above post: Some Josefsberg-Singer scripts were weak -- I didn't say ALL. One prime example of an effective one was the hilarious early "Here's Lucy" episode "Lucy The Fixer".

Now here (for those that have Fidelman's "LUCY BOOK") are the episodes noted as having INCORRECT Writer credits.

The guide correctly lists the writing team of Carroll-Martin-Schiller & Weiskopf as having written Most of the 1st and second seasons of "The Lucy Show", however the following episodes are listed wrongly. The credits below are the RIGHT ONES.

#34 "Lucy Gets Locked in The Vault": Written by Bob Carroll, Jr., Madelyn Martin and Bill O'Halleren.
#46 "Chris Goes Steady": Written ONLY by Carroll-Martin.
#53 "Lucy Is Her Own Lawyer": Written by Carroll, Martin and Howard Ostroff.
#55 "Lucy Goes Into Politics": Written by Carroll, Martin and Fred S. Fox and Iz Elinson.
#56 "Lucy And the Scout Trip": Written by Carroll, Martin, Iz Elinson and Howard Ostroff.
#57 "Lucy Is A Process Server" & #58 "Lucy Enters A Baking Contest": Written by Carroll and Martin ONLY.
#79 "Lucy and the Countess Lose Weight": says Jerry Belson and Garry Marshall, but is Written by Iz Elinson and Fred S. Fox.
#82 "Lucy and the Beauty Doctor": is Written by Bob O'Brien ONLY (says O'Brien-Elinson-Fox).

Importantly, Fidelman lists Bob O'Brien as "Executive Producer" at the top of the 1966-67 and 1967-68 Seasons. His Correct title is listed on screen as "Executive Writer".

Beginning with Episode #111, the credit arrangements flip flop backwards and forwards depending on the episode. Gary Morton is listed as "Production Consultant" and then "Executive Producer" on various episodes. More confusing is that both Lucy and Gary swap "Executive in Charge of Production" title throughout the course of the 1966-67 season. Eg. in #117 he is Exec. in Charge of Production, yet in the next episode, which is Part 2 of a storyline, he reverts back to "Production Consultant"!.
(The possible reason being that the order aired is not as filmed).

In #112 (for trivia sake): The opening credits sequence is backwards to normal and given as Director first, Writer second and Producer third -- this one time only!

#116 "Lucy Goes To London" it says "Based on an idea by Carroll and Pugh", when the on-screen credit actually says, "Special Material" Written by Carroll and Martin. Yes, I know Pugh was Martin's original surname, but in 1966 she was still married to TV Producer Quinn Martin.

#118 "Lucy And Carol In Palm Springs": this part 2 episode is Written by Bob O'Brien ONLY. (Part 1 is by both O'Brien and Elroy Schwartz)
#135 "Lucy and the French Movie Star" says Ray Singer. The correct credit is, Written by Bob O'Brien.
#149 "Lucy Gets Involved" lists Ray Singer as the sole scribe, when in fact the on-screen credit reads, Teleplay by Ray Singer and Milt Josefsberg, Story by Ernest D. Glucksman and Martin Grupsmith.
The final episode #156 "Lucy and the Boss of the Year Award" says the script was penned by Ray Singer, when again it should read, Written by Bob O'Brien.

"HERE'S LUCY":

The only mistake in the Writing credits for this show is Episode # 51: It says in the book, Written by Milt Josefsberg, Based on a script by Sam Perrin and Ralph Goodman. Regardless of whether in his capacity as Script Consultant he may have overhauled this script, the on-screen credit simply reads "Written by Sam Perrin and Ralph Goodman"

A spelling mistake in #47, should read Miles Wilder, not Myles.

Various little Guest Star indiscrepancies in this series are also incorrect. In #7 "Lucy and Eva Gabor", the Guest star's character is listed as Eva Von Kirsten. It should read Eva Von Graunwitz.

In # 70 "Lucy and the Unemployment Follies": "Green Acres" co-star Kay E. Kuter is listed as Ray Kuter.

"My Three Sons" co-star Beverly Garland is "uncredited" in the text of Episode #25, but she actually appears (although still uncredited on screen) in Part Two, which is # 26!

Fidelman lists "Alex Plasschaert" in a Part 2 episode called "Lucy Goes Hawaiian" (#72). Who is this? He doesn't appear on the end credits of that episode!!

Fidelman also lists "Lucy" company actor Robert J. Foulk in Episode # 75. He does NOT appear in this episode.

And just for trivia sake the contributing writers of Episode #120, "Lucy and Harry's Memoirs" are Gene Thompson, Bob Carroll, Jr., Madelyn Davis (she had remarried yet again!!), Larry Rhine, Lou Derman, Milt Josefsberg and Ray Singer.

Another piece of trivia I will let you know is that Milton Josefsberg was hired as "Script Consultant" on the tenth season (1981-82) of the "Happy Days" series, but NEVER contributed one single episode as a Writer!

WHEW!!!

Now hop to it, and make those corrections in the text of your books, should you feel inclined to.

Regards, Geoff.

;)

Wow, great info - thanks! Now...do you know where I can find an episode guide for TLS & HL, and possibly even ILL, listed in correct order of filming? All the episode guides I've seen go by original air dates, not by filming, yet in the book "For the Love of Lucy" all the episodes are mixed up for some reason - who's to trust? :confused:

bb25, There are none for the later shows that I know of. One great book published by Doubleday Books in 1985 "The I LOVE LUCY Book" by Bart Andrews, lists all episodes of that classic series in production order and in fact gives the dates that they were filmed as well as broadcast. Hunt it down in your local library; they'd surely have a copy.

But really, there is no need to watch them in original filming order, as for various reasons production companies have to film out of sequence to accomodate filming schedules etc. Most Television stations that screen old shows are bound to show them in the order as prepared by the syndicator of the program. That doesn't necessarily mean the way the networks originally showed them, but I can assure you that stations are VERY careful to follow the order given them, especially concerning connected storylines or Parts 1 & 2 of an episode.

The only show I can think of off the top of my head which NOW follows the original filming order (as opposed to the airing order) is when Paramount Television distributes the classic "Star Trek" series. This has been happening since the early 1990s in most markets that air that program. Purists probably want it the other way around, but really it is of no consequence.

As Editor of the "My Three Sons" database at TV Tome, I can tell you that it would be almost a nightmare trying to follow to original filming dates of that series, which was well known for its star friendly filming schedule. For example, Fred MacMurray didn't really want to do the show and was eventually persuaded when the Producers of the show guaranteed that they could film an entire season's worth of episodes in 65 straight days (with weekends off of course). The repercussions of this conditional requirement meant that Writer's had to have enough scripts available ahead of time, and then guest stars sometimes had to return months after filming their roles to finish off the episode. The actors had to have almost bi-weekly haircuts to keep the continuity intact, and the end result is that the main cast filmed for 6-months of the year around MacMurray whose scenes for episodes were filmed earlier and the edited into the final product. Hardly method acting!

Former actor Hank Jones, a world renowned genealogist, contributed time and memories to my site, and said that there is only one episode of the six or seven that he appeared on where he shared a scene with Fred MacMurray. Only problem being that MacMurray was not there! As originally filmed, the two way conversation had Adell Sliff, the show's script girl, reading Mr. MacMurray's lines in his absence. You'd never guess seeing the finished film, but these are types of pre-production planning that all shows must do ahead of time in order to make their network air dates on time as well as a myriad of other reasons. Not as simple as one would think, right? But that's the Magic of Hollywood -- almost anything is possible.

Yeah...the main reason I would want to see an order of filming guide is just the novelty of it...just to see exactly which episodes were filmed when...I do have a few questions about filming sequence that maybe you could help me with...

#1 In the 64-65 season of TLS, exactly which episode was filmed last? I've heard "Lucy and the Old Mansion", "Lucy the Disk Jockey" and "Lucy the Stockholder" were all the last shows filmed. I just want to know because it was the season Viv left the show...

#2 In the last season (1973-74) of HL, I know for a fact that "Meanwhile, Back at the Office" was the last episode filmed, yet was shown weeks before the actual end of the series...do you know the sequence of filming, for say, the last 5 episodes of that series?

I could come up with tons more, but I won't...see why I want an order of filming ep quide? ;)

Oh BTW, I have that Lucy book...although I never really looked at the ep guide...I'll have to go dig it out :)

Thanks for all of that info, Geoff. Ever consider writing a book about Lucy's shows?


Oh BTW, I have that Lucy book...although I never really looked at the ep guide...I'll have to go dig it out

He's very hard on Lucy's later work...that's all I'll say.

So, do what i do, disregard his lousy reviews and focus on the book as a reference tome with great comments by people who were there and many behind the scenes annecdotes. The best thing to do is to read a synopsis of the show you're about to watch, it enhances the experience.

Actually That Other Fan, I don't have that book. I was really surprised because it must be like the only Lucy book I don't own! LOL! Anyway, I still like to see the ep guide in it...maybe Schuler's has it or something...

And basically everyone who's a diehard I Love Lucy-ONLY fan pretty much disregards her later work. I mean, ILL wasn't the only thing Lucille Ball accomplished!! :mad:

I'll second that opinion. We all know the early shows by heart and it is so nice to see her in other things, i got copies of The Lucy show and LOVED them, then i started getting Here's Lucy and they are G R E A T ! I have two thirds of the first one and half the second one and am enjoying them much more than the original I Love Lucy's that I know inside out. Then, there are the Specials, and the talk shows, the guest appearances and so much more! The tributes and the game shows, and . . .