Once again, "Leave It To Beaver" has stolen an episode from the vastly superior "Father Knows Best":

"Wally's Dinner Date" is a pathetic rip-off of the classic FKB episode "Bud and the Debutante".

Let me give you the story of "Bud and the Debutante" and you decide:

Bud Anderson is in love with Mary, a local socialite, who also has a crush on him. However, dating her is very expensive. What to do? Jim says to him: "If she refuses to go bowling or to the movies with you, she's not the girl for you." Bud, however, does not have the strength to just be himself and take Mary to the local malt shop. He does, however, take her to a normal movie, but they run into a couple of socialite friends of hers who invite Bud and Mary to go with them to the most expensive restaurant in town. Once there, the foursome eat full meals and when the check arrives, Bud is somehow stuck with it. He opens up his wallet to find less than $10 and the bill is almost $50! The girl, who is a real sweetheart, sees his dilemma and passes money to him under the table. Next day, absolutely miserable and embarrassed, Bud decides to repay Mary by putting the same cash amount(which is all he has in the world) in a white envelope, put it in her mailbox with a note, and never see her again. Jim convinces him to bring it to her face-to-face, and see what happens. He does. And he learns that Mary's feelings for him are deep and real. He invites her to the local malt shop, and she excitingly says yes.

===============================

So, as you can see, a total theft. But worse than that. The original was funny, emotional, profoundly simple, and at times very moving. The LITB version is nothing -- just another weekly paycheck for the writers, director and cast.

One of these days, I'm going to come up with a complete list of episodes that LITB stole from FKB. (I'm sure you all can't wait.;) )

Sure, LITB was great for a couple years. But come on people, wake up! Sometimes things that were once gold, turn into crapola. Friendships, marriages, jobs, etc. LITB in its last two years is garbage.

Originally posted by John Sterren
Once again, "Leave It To Beaver" has stolen an episode from the vastly superior "Father Knows Best":

"Wally's Dinner Date" is a pathetic rip-off of the classic FKB episode "Bud and the Debutante".

Let me give you the story of "Bud and the Debutante" and you decide:

Bud Anderson is in love with Mary, a local socialite, who also has a crush on him. However, dating her is very expensive. What to do? Jim says to him: "If she refuses to go bowling or to the movies with you, she's not the girl for you." Bud, however, does not have the strength to just be himself and take Mary to the local malt shop. He does, however, take her to a normal movie, but they run into a couple of socialite friends of hers who invite Bud and Mary to go with them to the most expensive restaurant in town. Once there, the foursome eat full meals and when the check arrives, Bud is somehow stuck with it. He opens up his wallet to find less than $10 and the bill is almost $50! The girl, who is a real sweetheart, sees his dilemma and passes money to him under the table. Next day, absolutely miserable and embarrassed, Bud decides to repay Mary by putting the same cash amount(which is all he has in the world) in a white envelope, put it in her mailabox with a note, and never see her again. Jim convinces him to bring it to her face-to-face, and see what happens. He does. And he learns that Mary's feelings for him are deep and real. He invites her to the local malt shop, and she excitingly says yes.

===============================

So, as you can see, a total theft. But worse than that. The original was funny, emotional, profoundly simple, and at times very moving. The LITB version is nothing -- just another weekly paycheck for the writers, director and cast.

One of these days, I'm going to come up with a complete list of episodes that LITB stole from FKB. (I'm sure you all can't wait.;) )

Sure, LITB was great for a couple years. But come on people, wake up! Sometimes things that were once gold, turn into crapola. Friendships, marriages, etc. LITB in its last two years is garbage. I don't know about "vastly superior" and I see a little resemblence to "wallys dinner date" But to be honest with you that Litb ep was alot different than the FKB ep you described. Oh, by the way, Leave it to Beaver ROCKS!:p

Originally posted by bandito
But to be honest with you that Litb ep was alot different than the FKB ep you described.

You're right, the Beaver ep was a lot different: witless, dull, meaningless and emotionally flat. And that's not even mentioning the difference in production quality between the 2 shows. FKB was always photographed in glorious, Hollywood-level black-and-white. The last 2 years of LITB looks like each episode was shot in someone's garage.

I dont know who this guy is although they are certainly entitled to their own opinion, I dont know how anyone could consider any episode of LITB as dull or any adjective near that. This show has just as much staying power if not more than that of FKB. Im sorry I just whole heartedly disagree.

Originally posted by sami dg
I dont know who this guy is although they are certainly entitled to their own opinion, I dont know how anyone could consider any episode of LITB as dull or any adjective near that. This show has just as much staying power if not more than that of FKB. Im sorry I just whole heartedly disagree.

Just who this guy is? :confused:

Same as you, pal -- just some joker surfing the internet.

You are the victim of blind devotion. Now, I'm all for blind devotion, to a spouse, a child, a friend, a cause.

But to a TV show?????

Come on, every TV show ever made(including FKB) has its ups and downs. It's just in the case of LITB, the downs(the last 2 seasons) were waaaay down.

:soapbox:

I've tried watching Father Knows Best a few times, but I haven't been able to sit through a single episode. Its just so boring to me. I have a sitcom book where the author talks about the two shows though. He writes that after Father Knows Best was on tv, a number of sitcoms came out that clearly emulated that show. "The best of them was also the one that hewed closest to the Anderson model--"Leave it to Beaver". Its derivation is transparent: Springfield became Mayfield, Jim and Margaret became Ward and June Cleaver, Bud became Wally, Princess was eliminated, and the girl called Kitten became a boy called Beaver. "Beaver" was always funnier and less contrived than "Father", but its tone and intent were the same. It was, nonetheless, quite an original series". He goes on a few pages later to state that "the most striking difference between Springfield and Mayfield was that Springfield didn't have an Eddie Haskell" I found that to be a very in interesting observation. Like I said, I've never been able to watch an entire episode of Father Knows Best, but this guy goes on an on about how Eddie Haskell was such an interesting, different , unique, against the grain character, because by the end of the episode, he was rarely unfazed. But back to FKB and LITB..."Where "Father Knows Best" demonstrated ethical and systemic problems, "Beaver" brought the same lessons to the pscyhological sphere." The book is "Honey, I'm Home!" by Gerard Jones. I think its pretty interesting.:)

Come on, every TV show ever made(including FKB) has its ups and downs. It's just in the case of LITB, the downs(the last 2 seasons) were waaaay down.
The last 2 seasons are my favorite.:)

Originally posted by HaskellGirl
I've tried watching Father Knows Best a few times, but I haven't been able to sit through a single episode. Its just so boring to me. I have a sitcom book where the author talks about the two shows though. He writes that after Father Knows Best was on tv, a number of sitcoms came out that clearly emulated that show. "The best of them was also the one that hewed closest to the Anderson model--"Leave it to Beaver". Its derivation is transparent: Springfield became Mayfield, Jim and Margaret became Ward and June Cleaver, Bud became Wally, Princess was eliminated, and the girl called Kitten became a boy called Beaver. "Beaver" was always funnier and less contrived than "Father", but its tone and intent were the same. It was, nonetheless, quite an original series". He goes on a few pages later to state that "the most striking difference between Springfield and Mayfield was that Springfield didn't have an Eddie Haskell" I found that to be a very in interesting observation. Like I said, I've never been able to watch an entire episode of Father Knows Best, but this guy goes on an on about how Eddie Haskell was such an interesting, different , unique, against the grain character, because by the end of the episode, he was rarely unfazed. But back to FKB and LITB..."Where "Father Knows Best" demonstrated ethical and systemic problems, "Beaver" brought the same lessons to the pscyhological sphere." The book is "Honey, I'm Home!" by Gerard Jones. I think its pretty interesting.:)

VERY interesting. I'll definitely pick up the book.

Of course, I don't know how many eps of FKB you've tried to sit through:crazy: , but all I can say is try some more. LITB at its best(the first 2 years) and FKB at its best(the first 3) are very similar -- valuing emotional and dramatic honesty over easy yucks. And I think both shows are similar in that they both jumped the shark -- for opposite reasons. IMHO, Beaver jumped when it went down teenage-jerk humor road. FKB jumped when the show starting taking itself too seriously. (And when all the kids grew up and became egoists.)

Anyway, hope I didn't step on anyone's toes. :wave:

Originally posted by bandito
I don't know about "vastly superior" and I see a little resemblence to "wallys dinner date" But to be honest with you that Litb ep was alot different than the FKB ep you described. Oh, by the way, Leave it to Beaver ROCKS!:p Dont Watch FKB But I'm Sure LITB Is Better :p

Originally posted by John Sterren
You're right, the Beaver ep was a lot different: witless, dull, meaningless and emotionally flat. And that's not even mentioning the difference in production quality between the 2 shows. FKB was always photographed in glorious, Hollywood-level black-and-white. The last 2 years of LITB looks like each episode was shot in someone's garage. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by John Sterren
Once again, "Leave It To Beaver" has stolen an episode from the vastly superior "Father Knows Best":
I find it absolutely fascinating that for some arcane reason you feel compelled to come to this board and tell us that our show sucks.

Originally posted by BrandonS
I find it absolutely fascinating that for some arcane reason you feel compelled to come to this board and tell us that our show sucks. He's Stupid Brandon. He Has No Taste For Fine Shows Like Us Sophisticated People. :D ;)

Originally posted by *MacGyver Gurl*
He's Stupid Brandon. He Has No Taste For Fine Shows Like Us Sophisticated People. :D ;)
Evidently.

Originally posted by BrandonS
Evidently. Oh Yes Brandon *Puts Cigar In Mouth* Grady Thinks So Too.
:grady:

You two should get married. Are your rest homes near each other?

Originally posted by John Sterren
You two should get married. Are your rest homes near each other? Huh? :rotflmao:

Originally posted by Frnk55
The last 2 seasons are my favorite.:)



Mine too.

Originally posted by BrandonS

I find it absolutely fascinating that for some arcane reason you feel compelled to come to this board and tell us that our show sucks.

My thoughts exactly.

John Sterren, I'm all for open discussions and civilized debates on these boards. If we all felt the same way about everything, that would be so boring. And I, in no way am oposed to pointing out things about shows that we find disappointing, weak, ect. I critisize show's all the time--probably even more than some people's tastes. So, I'm just telling this to you so you know that I don't hold "blind devotion" to anything, including this show.

But I do think your're comments about LITB are bizarre. Your discussion here goes beyond the typical "critisizing." The fact that you STARTED this thread to slam the show came off as pretty weird to me.

John,

How can I compare FBK to LITB when I have no real source to watch FBK?!!! Someone recently told me they had most the episodes of FBK on tape, and when I emailed them,not once, but twice, to see if they would make copies for me (and I offered to pay a legit price) I never even got a reply - cough, cough - know what I mean John???

Listen, I last watched FBK in its full run back in the 70's. So my mind is fuzzy. I know I like what I saw on TVLand recently, and I'm sure I'd rate it right up there with my other favorites. But it's hard to criticize folks for something that most of us can't do anything about - watching and comparing FBK to other shows.

I loved the last two seasons of LITB. It wasn't the mushy stuff of the earlier years, with all the nice morals in each episode, but it was funny stuff (especially the progression of Eddie and Lumpy).

B&W "both shows are very good - nothing today compares to either one" fan

Originally posted by John Sterren
You two should get married. Are your rest homes near each other? :clap: :clap: :clap::rofl:

Originally posted by *MacGyver Gurl*
He's Stupid Brandon. He Has No Taste For Fine Shows Like Us Sophisticated People. :D ;)
ohno: :nonono: :rolleyes2

Ok, this is interesting. We've just had two BRAND NEW posters pull this thread back to the top with the express purpose of defending John Sterren, while dissing two of this boards regular posters.

Are you two newbies related to John or something? I mean, let's get real here. Read this entire thread and you will clearly see that John has been the aggressor in this discussion, as well as being the one to take "shots" at others for their opinions.

B&W "something fishy is going on with these two new posters, IMHO" fan

Originally posted by B&W fan
Ok, this is interesting. We've just had two BRAND NEW posters pull this thread back to the top with the express purpose of defending John Sterren, while dissing two of this boards regular posters.

Are you two newbies related to John or something? I mean, let's get real here. Read this entire thread and you will clearly see that John has been the aggressor in this discussion, as well as being the one to take "shots" at others for their opinions.

B&W "something fishy is going on with these two new posters, IMHO" fan

We've been having a lot of newbie trouble lately. Just check past threads. We had some trouble around about 2 months ago, one got banned and the rest left. Then the rest all come back very recently (I thought it was odd how they all came back at one time). But yeah, we've been having a lot of trolls lately. Can't wait til school starts, maybe they'll find something more interesting to do.

I haven't got banning power. All I can do is edit, close and report to TJ or Pav so they can ban them. A few of the trolls were banned yesterday. Goes to show, ban some and you got more to replace them.

Somebody isn't very bright. boinng boinng has a birthday on Feb. 22, 1966 and
crackerzzz on Feb. 22, 1976. He'll change it now, but the problem seems relatively simple.

Originally posted by BrandonS
Somebody isn't very bright. boinng boinng has a birthday on Feb. 22, 1966 and
crackerzzz on Feb. 22, 1976. He'll change it now, but the problem seems relatively simple.

We got evidence if they change it. They both have Feb. 22nd.

pic 2

I'll only add one thing to that:

BUSTED!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

B&W "perhaps these newbies are a part of this group - :stooges: " fan

It's hard for me to reply to this, since I'm such an avid fan of both shows.

One thing that FKB did that was much better, was consistency. There are a lot of little things, sloppy things, which just should not have happened on LITB.

FKB obviously had top-notch writers in Paul West, John Elliotte, Dorothy Cooper, Roswell Rogers, etc.

But LITB had a certain appeal in focusing on life through the child's eyes, rather than being a vehicle for a star or stars such as Robert Young and Jane Wyatt.

You can see the favoritism of TV fans for LITB in the huge difference in the number of posts on boards such as this and TVLand.

Perhaps if FKB got the full expose it deserves there would be more fans. You (probably) don't get many viewers at 10:30 am on Sunday for a recycling of 30 or so eps.

Originally posted by stevea
It's hard for me to reply to this, since I'm such an avid fan of both shows.

One thing that FKB did that was much better, was consistency. There are a lot of little things, sloppy things, which just should not have happened on LITB.

FKB obviously had top-notch writers in Paul West, John Elliotte, Dorothy Cooper, Roswell Rogers, etc.

But LITB had a certain appeal in focusing on life through the child's eyes, rather than being a vehicle for a star or stars such as Robert Young and Jane Wyatt.

You can see the favoritism of TV fans for LITB in the huge difference in the number of posts on boards such as this and TVLand.

Perhaps if FKB got the full expose it deserves there would be more fans. You (probably) don't get many viewers at 10:30 am on Sunday for a recycling of 30 or so eps.

Very well put, Steve. There must be all sort of legal problems in getting syndication rights to FKB, problems that are obviously not present concerning LITB. I think there's something else, however, that divides the two shows. The longer LITB was on, the campier and less serious it got. Not so with FKB. (I will admit that on an off-episode, FKB could be too solemn.) I think that's why LITB is on 6 times a day and we get to see all 250 episodes, and why we've seen almost nothing of FKB for years. Beaver and his pals are a much jokier and much less earnest embodiment of the late 50s/early 60s than FKB is. And the last thing advertisers want on TV these days is something straight and sincere.

BTW, start ducking now. You will soon be labled as a troll. :crazy:

Originally posted by John Sterren


I think there's something else, however, that divides the two shows. The longer LITB was on, the campier and less serious it got. Not so with FKB. (I will admit that on an off-episode, FKB could be too solemn.)

I don't know, Father Knows Best seemed pretty silly in the flashback episodes; that's when the father would tell his children a flashback story that they themselves were in!

Originally posted by GeeBee
I don't know, Father Knows Best seemed pretty silly in the flashback episodes; that's when the father would tell his children a flashback story that they themselves were in!

I'll reiterate my point to John one more time:

John, how can we honestly compare the two when FBK has been, for all intents and purposes, unavailable to the masses for at least 15 years (I can't remember it playing on any national network for at least that long)???

If someone would either make the episodes available via tape trading or something similar, of if a network would run the show like LITB has been run for the last 10 years or so, then more of us could see how wonderful FBK was. But I for one can't pull up 20+ year old memories of that show with any consistency in my mind. It's just been too, too long.

B&W "I still think both shows were wonderful" fan