I wanna know if what yall think happens when you die. Do you just stop existing like before you were born or something else.

I believe we just go to another world and meet up with the people we lost in this one. No heaven or hell, just another world kind of like this one.

I don't know. :)


I asked my dad that question once and he told me that we would be returning into the ground from when we came, but our souls would still exist. Then, the rapture takes place and we will then all be judged all once, then spend eternity either in heaven or hell.

He also said that the Bible make some references to saying that we will (I guess) be able to "feel" our souls like we can feel our bodies here on Earth.

:talk:

I Feel The Good People go to Heaven. I Picture Heaven as basically Earth, But with no Sickness or Evil. And we each have a piece of land up thir that looks exactly how we want it to look. Thats just what i think.

What I wish would happen was every dream we had here will come true when we die. That would be real heaven. Like if you loved someone here but they were taken...they're be yours there. I know there's a million reasons that couldn't happen but hey, I'd like that to happen.

A person is able to think because he or she has a brain with electrical and chemical activity. When you die, the machine stops and the electrical and chemical activity in your brain stops. Your tissues, including the brain, fall apart, etc. No brain, no thoughts. When the machine stops working, you don't exist anymore. It's like asking where the music recorded on a tape goes when you destroy the tape.

Originally posted by BrandonS
A person is able to think because he or she has a brain with electrical and chemical activity. When you die, the machine stops and the electrical and chemical activity in your brain stops. Your tissues, including the brain, fall apart, etc. No brain, no thoughts. When the machine stops working, you don't exist anymore. It's like asking where the music recorded on a tape goes when you destroy the tape.

Well...isn't that a pleasant thought.

Originally posted by BrandonS
A person is able to think because he or she has a brain with electrical and chemical activity. When you die, the machine stops and the electrical and chemical activity in your brain stops. Your tissues, including the brain, fall apart, etc. No brain, no thoughts. When the machine stops working, you don't exist anymore. It's like asking where the music recorded on a tape goes when you destroy the tape. Maybe that happens to our physical bodies, but not our souls. We all have souls. Everyone does. When the rapture occurs, I believe everyone will be taken in front of God,and if your name is in the "Book of the Lamb" than you will go to heaven and if your name is not, than you will go to hell. The only way you can get your name into the book, is if you personally accept Jesus into your life and admit you are a sinner and can't live without God's grace. How do I know all this? It says it in the Bible,and if anyone wants proof, or wants to talk about it you can PM or IM me anytime and I would gadly share it with you.:D

im pretty sure our spirits stay here on earth, since theres so many ghosts around. today is my moms birfday and ive been feeling her around.

Originally posted by ~°Sarah°~
im pretty sure our spirits stay here on earth, since theres so many ghosts around. today is my moms birfday and ive been feeling her around. It must be hard :( . I don't belive spirits actually come back to earth neccasarly, but I think that there are angels around us all the time. Maybe because God knows that it is your mom's birthday he sent you an angel to comfort you and your family.

I believe that if you basically led a good life and tried your best to do what was right, then you will go to heaven. I don't think you'll go straight to hell just because a few of your beliefs are different than someone else's. There are a lot of people who live good lives and have good morals who deserve to go to heaven. I don't think God is going to cast you away just because you're Jewish or Hindu or Buddhist. Just my thoughts.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ~Tropical Punch 19~
Maybe that happens to our physical bodies, but not our souls. We all have souls. Everyone does. When the rapture occurs, I believe everyone will be taken in front of God,and if your name is in the "Book of the Lamb" than you will go to heaven and if your name is not, than you will go to hell. The only way you can get your name into the book, is if you personally accept Jesus into your life and admit you are a sinner and can't live without God's grace. How do I know all this? It says it in the Bible,and if anyone wants proof, or wants to talk about it you can PM or IM me anytime and I would gadly share it with you.QUOTE]

Exactly. :)

Originally posted by ~Tropical Punch 19~
Maybe that happens to our physical bodies, but not our souls. We all have souls. Everyone does. When the rapture occurs, I believe everyone will be taken in front of God,and if your name is in the "Book of the Lamb" than you will go to heaven and if your name is not, than you will go to hell. The only way you can get your name into the book, is if you personally accept Jesus into your life and admit you are a sinner and can't live without God's grace. How do I know all this? It says it in the Bible,and if anyone wants proof, or wants to talk about it you can PM or IM me anytime and I would gadly share it with you.

Exactly. :)

I didn't mean to post my comment twice . :o

Originally posted by Original Prankster
I believe that if you basically led a good life and tried your best to do what was right, then you will go to heaven. I don't think you'll go straight to hell just because a few of your beliefs are different than someone else's. There are a lot of people who live good lives and have good morals who deserve to go to heaven. I don't think God is going to cast you away just because you're Jewish or Hindu or Buddhist. Just my thoughts. hm, yes you do bring upon a good point. My friend believes the same way you do. Yes, there are many good people who don't deserve to go to Hell, but let me ask you this.. how can you define a "good" person? See how would God judge you by your actions here. It would eb ahrd, we all do good thinsg and we all do bad things. God eosn't measure one sin worse than another. Like we think that lying isn't THAT bad compared to murder, but to God it is sin and sin is sin. So you can't really difine a "good person". It clearly states in the Bible that the ponly way to get into heaven is to have a persona; realtionship with Jesus Christ, to ask him to forgive you. And admit you are a sinner. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that WHOSOEVER believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." I'd post more verses and I will later but right now I ahve to go soemwhere. I don't want any of you to think I am being snobbish or anything. I just want to share with you what I belive.

I believe that there is a heaven and a hell, but I'm not really sure what makes you go either way.

Let me post this question. It's not meant to start an arguement at all. It's just something to think about. What if say, someone was born in a remote place in the world where they only practiced a certain religion, Hinduism, for example. They were never introduced to Christinaity. But they always strived for the best. They prayed daily. They became a local counselor and started to help out people in the poorer sections of their neighborhood. Fed the hungry, clothed the naked, helped heal the sick. If they ever did anything wrong, they'd apologize and do anything and everything for the person of who they wronged, and asked for forgiveness in their prayers. Then they suddenly died one day. Would they go to heaven.....or would they go to hell? Just think about it. I'm a Catholic and practice the religion, but I don't agree with every single idea and belief they preach. I believe in almost everything. I just disagree with a few things here and there.

If all of that was taken into consideration, the person would most likely go to heaven because:

1. they prayed daily and asked for forgiveness when they wronged someone

2. they have done a lot of good deeds

3. they spread the message of leading a good life and helping others to lead a good life

Originally posted by Original Prankster
Let me post this question. It's not meant to start an arguement at all. It's just something to think about. What if say, someone was born in a remote place in the world where they only practiced a certain religion, Hinduism, for example. They were never introduced to Christinaity. But they always strived for the best. They prayed daily. They became a local counselor and started to help out people in the poorer sections of their neighborhood. Fed the hungry, clothed the naked, helped heal the sick. If they ever did anything wrong, they'd apologize and do anything and everything for the person of who they wronged, and asked for forgiveness in their prayers. Then they suddenly died one day. Would they go to heaven.....or would they go to hell? Just think about it. I'm a Catholic and practice the religion, but I don't agree with every single idea and belief they preach. I believe in almost everything. I just disagree with a few things here and there.

I have to agree with you. The person/people who dont know about God, and never have been introduced to Him shouldnt have to suffer because they didnt know.

I have had lots of different ideas about this,and now,I just don't know quite what to think.I've changed my beliefs on this a lot of times,so now,I really don't know what to think. :confused:

I forgot to add to that that he's not praying to the God that the Christinas know and pray to. It's the God that the Hindu's pray to. I'm not sure what they are called, but just wanted to make that clear.

Originally posted by ~Tropical Punch 19~
Maybe that happens to our physical bodies, but not our souls. We all have souls. Everyone does. When the rapture occurs, I believe everyone will be taken in front of God,and if your name is in the "Book of the Lamb" than you will go to heaven and if your name is not, than you will go to hell. The only way you can get your name into the book, is if you personally accept Jesus into your life and admit you are a sinner and can't live without God's grace. How do I know all this? It says it in the Bible,and if anyone wants proof, or wants to talk about it you can PM or IM me anytime and I would gadly share it with you.:D

I agree 100%. Without Jesus Christ, we are doomed to an eternity in Hell. But with Him, an eternity of wonderful, beautiful Heaven.

Originally posted by ~*Hannah_Lee*~
I agree 100%. Without Jesus Christ, we are doomed to an eternity in Hell. But with Him, an eternity of wonderful, beautiful Heaven. thats what I believe....but I dont know if no other religions can go to heaven. Or that good ppl who dont believe Jesus was Son of God, dont...

Originally posted by Original Prankster
Let me post this question. It's not meant to start an arguement at all. It's just something to think about. What if say, someone was born in a remote place in the world where they only practiced a certain religion, Hinduism, for example. They were never introduced to Christinaity. But they always strived for the best. They prayed daily. They became a local counselor and started to help out people in the poorer sections of their neighborhood. Fed the hungry, clothed the naked, helped heal the sick. If they ever did anything wrong, they'd apologize and do anything and everything for the person of who they wronged, and asked for forgiveness in their prayers. Then they suddenly died one day. Would they go to heaven.....or would they go to hell?

I have asked that question before, and I have some scripture to back up the answer. Even if a person has never been introduced to Christianity, the Bible says that they are without excuse. God makes His presence known to everyone. In Romans 1:20, the Bible says "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities- his eternal power and divine nature- have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made so that men are without excuse."

Originally posted by BubbleLuvGrl026
thats what I believe....but I dont know if no other religions can go to heaven. Or that good ppl who dont believe Jesus was Son of God, dont...

I don't really believe in "religion." I believe in "relationship." As in having a relationship with Jesus Christ. Anyone who has that relationship, which means they have accepted Jesus as their savior, will go to heaven regardless of what religion they categorize themselves as.

Originally posted by ~Tropical Punch 19~
hm, yes you do bring upon a good point. My friend believes the same way you do. Yes, there are many good people who don't deserve to go to Hell, but let me ask you this.. how can you define a "good" person? See how would God judge you by your actions here. It would eb ahrd, we all do good thinsg and we all do bad things. God eosn't measure one sin worse than another. Like we think that lying isn't THAT bad compared to murder, but to God it is sin and sin is sin. So you can't really difine a "good person".

Exactly. In Mark 10:18, Jesus says "No one is good- except God alone."

Originally posted by ~*Hannah_Lee*~
I have asked that question before, and I have some scripture to back up the answer. Even if a person has never been introduced to Christianity, the Bible says that they are without excuse. God makes His presence known to everyone. In Romans 1:20, the Bible says "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities- his eternal power and divine nature- have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made so that men are without excuse."

So a man who has worked his whole entire life for the good of the people, who admitted to all his wrongdoings and asked for forgiveness from his God, and has never been introduced to Christianity because he was born in an area where it's very difficult to enter into or leave will suffer in hell for all of eternity? Well then you can just say he wasted his life with all those good deeds because he could have just as well done wrong and murdered everyone he met because he would have gone to hell anyway.

Originally posted by Original Prankster
So a man who has worked his whole entire life for the good of the people, who admitted to all his wrongdoings and asked for forgiveness from his God, and has never been introduced to Christianity because he was born in an area where it's very difficult to enter into or leave will suffer in hell for all of eternity? Well then you can just say he wasted his life with all those good deeds because he could have just as well done wrong and murdered everyone he met because he would have gone to hell anyway.

Good deeds do not get anyone to heaven. Only by faith and belief in Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior are people allowed to enter into Heaven.

Originally posted by Original Prankster
So a man who has worked his whole entire life for the good of the people, who admitted to all his wrongdoings and asked for forgiveness from his God, and has never been introduced to Christianity because he was born in an area where it's very difficult to enter into or leave will suffer in hell for all of eternity? Well then you can just say he wasted his life with all those good deeds because he could have just as well done wrong and murdered everyone he met because he would have gone to hell anyway.

Good point, but you have to remember that faith without works is dead. This means that you can do all the good deeds in the world, but if you have done absolutely nothing for God, then all of those good deeds mean nothing.

So, what do you do for God? Read His word, then go out and help others to understand His word. If you are experienced, try to minister to someone who is lost.

Those are things that help you get into heaven.

i dont think the john 3:16 thing only applies to christians... i really think it applies to every1. i mean what about ppl that have different religions, do they not get everlasting life just cuz they dont believe in god?

Originally posted by amp2k3
Good point, but you have to remember that faith without works is dead. This means that you can do all the good deeds in the world, but if you have done absolutely nothing for God, then all of those good deeds mean nothing.

So, what do you do for God? Read His word, then go out and help others to understand His word. If you are experienced, try to minister to someone who is lost.

Those are things that help you get into heaven.

Where would he get 'his word' from though? Like I said, he lives in a very small place far from any other civilization that is hard to enter and leave. How is he to know what is 'the true word' and where to get it?

Originally posted by Original Prankster
Where would he get 'his word' from though? Like I said, he lives in a very small place far from any other civilization that is hard to enter and leave. How is he to know what is 'the true word' and where to get it?

Well, there are Christian missionaries. They travel from place to place throughout the world trying to spread God's word. They even travel to those places that were thought to be "inaccessible."

Then too, God speaks to all of us. It is just up to us to listen.

Let me ask you this:
Now, if God was to tell him to leave his civilization to seek His word and tell others, would he do it? I would think that since God would be talking to him, he would try to find some way in order to obey his command.

Like I said, good deeds are not enough, so, he is just going to have to do something in order to gain a "personal" relationship with Jesus Christ.

Hope this clears things up a little. :)

your soul floats up to heaven and you grow wings.:)

I personally think that when you die you just don't exist anymore. because your brain is dead. And some people here have said well if your good than you go to heaven and if your bad you go to hell. Well what is heaven and what is hell? You just say it its just a word but what are those places really and don't say its in the sky because ,no, its outer space up there and don't say hell is under the earth because thats earth's core. Some people have also said that animals don't have a soul ."So what is the difference between humans and animals? As far as I can tell it's just a question of intelligence, as measured by us. After all it's not that long ago that we were animals, we weren't created human, we just evolved along different lines than the others. That being the case there is nothing special about us that should warrant us having a soul and animals not, after all, some people are born with severe brain malfunctions that on an intelligence scale would rate them less than some animals. So intelligence can not be the deciding factor, unless you believe that you need to score above a certain IQ level in order to be granted a soul So what exactly could it be that determines whether or not a life form merits a soul or not, as the case may be? I think we can rule out intelligence. What else sets us apart from the animals? Some would say our appreciation of the arts, poetry, music, etc. I don't agree. I think that just comes with intelligence. What else is there? Absolutely nothing at all! We think we have a soul, we think we are 'superior' to the animals, we think there is some undefinable quality about us that sets as apart from the animals. No! We are just animals that got smart." Pasted from a site not directly from me.

When you leave this earth your soul will go to the Judgement and there Saint Peter will see if your name is written in the book of life and you will be judge. Everything that you have said and done over your entire life will be judge. This will determine where you will spend your eternity at. Heaven is for the people who has their name written in the book of life and has had their sins covered by the blood of Jesus Christ. In heaven you will be reunited with all of your loved ones who have made it to heaven. In heaven there will be no more sickness, no pain, just peace forever more. Here you will recieve your robe and crown and Jesus will walk up to you and tell you well done my good and faithful servent. For those who has not had their sins washed away by Jesus Christ and whos name is not written in the lambs book of life will be casted into the lake of fire otherwise known as hell. There you will tormented for all of eternity. I believe that in hell you can look up and see all of those people that are in heaven but those people in heaven cannot see those that are in hell. Eternity is one long day--FOREVER. There is only ONE way to get to heaven and that is by the blood of Jesus Christ.

This is the subject that scares me most of all. Sometimes I just sit there and think about it and I want to cry. We're all taught to believe in something, God, heaven, hell. It's just, there's this scary thought I get that says, 'how do we know if this is all true? Because, death is a scary thought...I mean, how do you know if someone VERY long ago thought up the idea to make everyone feel better about death? How do we know that once we die we're just gone forever? But then again, what if God is real? Am I going to go to hell for these thoughts or something? I hate these thoughts so much. I want God to be real so much, but sometimes I feel doubtfull. I mean, I pray, and I even go to church sometimes...but I don't know. Something inside me keeps telling me that the other way makes more sense.

Sorry if that's depressing to anyone, it's just my thoughts on it. :(

Originally posted by BrandonS
A person is able to think because he or she has a brain with electrical and chemical activity. When you die, the machine stops and the electrical and chemical activity in your brain stops. Your tissues, including the brain, fall apart, etc. No brain, no thoughts. When the machine stops working, you don't exist anymore. It's like asking where the music recorded on a tape goes when you destroy the tape.

So much for a good nights sleep tonight...

;)

I've always believed in a heaven. Lately I've been pondering reincarnation. I see that it could be possible and allow for entrance into heaven as well. You hear of God's mercy and forgiveness about as often as he hear of His wrath. So it seems plausible to believe that God would give some people a second chance in life through reincarnation, especially if that person felt unfulfilled or wasn't able to complete God's mission for them in life.

Originally posted by *A TV People*
This is the subject that scares me most of all. Sometimes I just sit there and think about it and I want to cry. We're all taught to believe in something, God, heaven, hell. It's just, there's this scary thought I get that says, 'how do we know if this is all true? Because, death is a scary thought...I mean, how do you know if someone VERY long ago thought up the idea to make everyone feel better about death? How do we know that once we die we're just gone forever? But then again, what if God is real? Am I going to go to hell for these thoughts or something? I hate these thoughts so much. I want God to be real so much, but sometimes I feel doubtfull. I mean, I pray, and I even go to church sometimes...but I don't know. Something inside me keeps telling me that the other way makes more sense.

Sorry if that's depressing to anyone, it's just my thoughts on it. :(

We all deal with doubts. Here's a bit of advice. Don't worry about what you are "supposed" to believe in. Just live your life in peace and work to spread love in your own way. If there is no afterlife, you will have had a good and fulfilling life and you would die happy. You will have lost nothing. If there is an afterlife, you will have lived a life that gave you the key to heaven. You win everything.
Simple as that! Win-win.

Originally posted by Max Whittaker
We all deal with doubts. Here's a bit of advice. Don't worry about what you are "supposed" to believe in. Just live your life in peace and work to spread love in your own way. If there is no afterlife, you will have had a good and fulfilling life and you would die happy. You will have lost nothing. If there is an afterlife, you will have lived a life that gave you the key to heaven. You win everything.
Simple as that! Win-win.

Thanks, that is good advice. :)

I just hate the thought of being gone forever, though. It's scary :(

I think you either go to heaven or hell. And I dont feel like explaining myself :lol:

Originally posted by MaRtInA_GuRL
I think you either go to heaven or hell. And I dont feel like explaining myself :lol:

exactly :lol:

Originally posted by *A TV People*
This is the subject that scares me most of all. Sometimes I just sit there and think about it and I want to cry. We're all taught to believe in something, God, heaven, hell. It's just, there's this scary thought I get that says, 'how do we know if this is all true? Because, death is a scary thought...I mean, how do you know if someone VERY long ago thought up the idea to make everyone feel better about death? How do we know that once we die we're just gone forever? But then again, what if God is real? Am I going to go to hell for these thoughts or something? I hate these thoughts so much. I want God to be real so much, but sometimes I feel doubtfull. I mean, I pray, and I even go to church sometimes...but I don't know. Something inside me keeps telling me that the other way makes more sense.

Sorry if that's depressing to anyone, it's just my thoughts on it. :(

I agree and that's why I'm indeciscive about what to believe.

Originally posted by TJL
So much for a good nights sleep tonight...

;)

:lol:

being a Christian My Religion allows me to believe that I'll to go Heaven or Hell and I believe that HOPEFULLY Me I'll go to heaven

I used to afraid at the very thought of dying someday, but when I became a "born-again" Christian on March 9, 2003, those thoughts weren't frightening to me anymore.

Now, I know, that the eternal life in heaven will be way better any life on this Earth and then some.

I just want to strive to live a good life and follow God's rules and commandments. :cool:

i believe in the rebirth of the soul in successive life forms

Originally posted by *A TV People*
This is the subject that scares me most of all. Sometimes I just sit there and think about it and I want to cry. We're all taught to believe in something, God, heaven, hell. It's just, there's this scary thought I get that says, 'how do we know if this is all true? Because, death is a scary thought...I mean, how do you know if someone VERY long ago thought up the idea to make everyone feel better about death? How do we know that once we die we're just gone forever? But then again, what if God is real? Am I going to go to hell for these thoughts or something? I hate these thoughts so much. I want God to be real so much, but sometimes I feel doubtfull. I mean, I pray, and I even go to church sometimes...but I don't know. Something inside me keeps telling me that the other way makes more sense.

Sorry if that's depressing to anyone, it's just my thoughts on it. :( Well, why not take the risk. Why not just put your FAITH into Jesus. FAITH-beiliving in waht you cannot see, but seeing its effects. Think of it like this: if you follow Jesus and become a Christian that is cool and awesome and when we die say there is heaven so that is great too, but say there isn't and we just die, well you wouldn't know wanyway because you'd be dead. You see what I am saying? However, I belive with all my heart that there is a God, Jesus, hevaen, hell etc. I know it's ahrd for some people who haven't been raised in a Christian home. I ahve been raised with this my whole life.

Originally posted by ~°Sarah°~
i dont think the john 3:16 thing only applies to christians... i really think it applies to every1. i mean what about ppl that have different religions, do they not get everlasting life just cuz they dont believe in god? No, beacsue thre is no "other" heaven and hell for other religions. Thee is no Nirvana or purgetory. Just heaven or hell plain and simple. The whoel point is you get everlasting life BY believing in God.

Originally posted by ~*Hannah_Lee*~
I have asked that question before, and I have some scripture to back up the answer. Even if a person has never been introduced to Christianity, the Bible says that they are without excuse. God makes His presence known to everyone. In Romans 1:20, the Bible says "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities- his eternal power and divine nature- have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made so that men are without excuse." EXACTLY! Many may not be raised with the Christian belives and or values, but in this case Hindusim. Well, when they reach a ceratin age they should question there thoughts and think "how is this possible...." I think though if there is a situation like that and I person questions what he has been taught, and prays to God (not the Hindu god) but he starts gaining FAITH in a merciful god who created all this and asks for forgiveness and realizes he sins and asks for God's guidness then I am pretty sure he will go to heaven. Same goes for areas of the world where there are nonbeilvers. What I siad is kin dof confusing and I know people are going to question me about it but... If missionaries though went to this lands and a person still denied to belive thna it is there loss. Also, I belive that children of any race/culture if they die as children they go to Heaven because they are too young to make a decision for themseleves of what they belive. My estimated guess of what God sees as a child being vurnable to belive what he has been brought up in even if it is wrong is oh I'd say.. 0-9. In most cases.

Originally posted by JDS84
When you leave this earth your soul will go to the Judgement and there Saint Peter will see if your name is written in the book of life and you will be judge. Everything that you have said and done over your entire life will be judge. This will determine where you will spend your eternity at. Heaven is for the people who has their name written in the book of life and has had their sins covered by the blood of Jesus Christ. In heaven you will be reunited with all of your loved ones who have made it to heaven. In heaven there will be no more sickness, no pain, just peace forever more. Here you will recieve your robe and crown and Jesus will walk up to you and tell you well done my good and faithful servent. For those who has not had their sins washed away by Jesus Christ and whos name is not written in the lambs book of life will be casted into the lake of fire otherwise known as hell. There you will tormented for all of eternity. I believe that in hell you can look up and see all of those people that are in heaven but those people in heaven cannot see those that are in hell. Eternity is one long day--FOREVER. There is only ONE way to get to heaven and that is by the blood of Jesus Christ.

Agreed.

Originally posted by ~Tropical Punch 19~
Well, why not take the risk. Why not just put your FAITH into Jesus. FAITH-beiliving in waht you cannot see, but seeing its effects. Think of it like this: if you follow Jesus and become a Christian that is cool and awesome and when we die say there is heaven so that is great too, but say there isn't and we just die, well you wouldn't know wanyway because you'd be dead. You see what I am saying? However, I belive with all my heart that there is a God, Jesus, hevaen, hell etc. I know it's ahrd for some people who haven't been raised in a Christian home. I ahve been raised with this my whole life.

Exactly. Following Jesus can bring wonderful things into your life. The Christian life may not always be easiest, but God promises wonderful things and great joy to those who seek after Him with all his heart. God has a plan and a wonderful life to give all of us if we only put complete faith in him.

Jeremiah 29:11"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you a hope and a future."

Proverbs 16:22 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and your plans will succeed.

Originally posted by MaRtInA_GuRL
I think you either go to heaven or hell. And I dont feel like explaining myself :lol:

Man, am I screwed...

;)

Originally posted by ~*Hannah_Lee*~
Good deeds do not get anyone to heaven. Only by faith and belief in Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior are people allowed to enter into Heaven.

Hi Hannah,

I agree with you that good deeds do not get anyone to heaven (and when you think about it, most everyone has probably done a "good deed" at some time or another). I've also been told (by most every Christian of any religion) that you need to accept Jesus into your heart [not with just mere words], and your outward behavior will reflect whether or not you truly accept him. (you probably already know this, as you've indicated in your posts above..... :) )

I asked and thought about it before, but Id rather not question God.

Originally posted by Just Popped In
Hi Hannah,

I agree with you that good deeds do not get anyone to heaven (and when you think about it, most everyone has probably done a "good deed" at some time or another). I've also been told (by most every Christian of any religion) that you need to accept Jesus into your heart [not with just mere words], and your outward behavior will reflect whether or not you truly accept him. (you probably already know this, as you've indicated in your posts above..... :) )

Yep, accepting Christ can completely change your life, and for the better.

Originally posted by Original Prankster
So a man who has worked his whole entire life for the good of the people, who admitted to all his wrongdoings and asked for forgiveness from his God, and has never been introduced to Christianity because he was born in an area where it's very difficult to enter into or leave will suffer in hell for all of eternity? Well then you can just say he wasted his life with all those good deeds because he could have just as well done wrong and murdered everyone he met because he would have gone to hell anyway.

Well, missionaries have entered every part of the globe, so that minimalizes the question. Now some are so fixed in their beliefs, that they reject Christ. Some people reject him because he was the Messiah of the Jews and many Anti Semites, I think, use Christ's Jewish flesh as part of the rejection.

Originally posted by ~*Hannah_Lee*~
Yep, accepting Christ can completely change your life, and for the better.

Oh, I totally agree. There is a knowledge unlike anything out there from Christianity. I mean, because of my faith, I know that it has made me look at the world in a 3-D way, kind of like the way God himself sees it. That is why I get involved in Political posts, because politics shapes the way God's creation shapes thier society, and legislates laws that are either moral or immoral.

Originally posted by RWCTV
Oh, I totally agree. There is a knowledge unlike anything out there from Christianity. I mean, because of my faith, I know that it has made me look at the world in a 3-D way, kind of like the way God himself sees it. That is why I get involved in Political posts, because politics shapes the way God's creation shapes thier society, and legislates laws that are either moral or immoral.

That's great! Politics may be part of God's purpose for you! Like it says in my signature..."For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you." I think America could use a good Christian politician!

Originally posted by ~*Hannah_Lee*~
That's great! Politics may be part of God's purpose for you! Like it says in my signature..."For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you." I think America could use a good Christian politician!

Thanks,
Also Politics is important when it comes to Bible Prophecy and how it plays out.

Where do bad folks go when they die?
They don't go to Heaven where the angels fly
The go to a lake of fire and fry
Won't see 'em again 'til the Fourth of July!

Seriously, this is what I know happens to you when you die: they put you in a nice outfit, hold an open-casket service where a lot of people cry, hold another service the next day, and hold another service where they bury you immediately after that.

Originally posted by AKA
Seriously, this is what I know happens to you when you die: they put you in a nice outfit, hold an open-casket service where a lot of people cry, hold another service the next day, and hold another service where they bury you immediately after that.

It's funny, but you didn't mention anything about where the souls go.

On the level of the physical realm, I know they go somewhere because there are people who have had out-of-body experiences. Peter Sellers (The Pink Panther) died once, and talked about it on an old talk show. He was scared to death when it happened to him.

Rexella Van Impe, wife of Prophecy newscaster Jack Van Impe got killed in a car accident, and told everyone what she saw in the video "Heaven" that they made.

Originally posted by AKA
Where do bad folks go when they die?
They don't go to Heaven where the angels fly
The go to a lake of fire and fry
Won't see 'em again 'til the Fourth of July!

Seriously, this is what I know happens to you when you die: they put you in a nice outfit, hold an open-casket service where a lot of people cry, hold another service the next day, and hold another service where they bury you immediately after that.

Ok, you got that part right.

Now here's the other part. Your soul rests in your dead body until the rapture takes place. See, the soul is not dead, it is just resting in my opinion. It is said that the great trumpets will sound and can be heard from every corner of the earth. Every soul will leave the dead body and rise up towards heaven. Once the rapture, takes the place, your soul is taken up to the judgement seat with everyone else's soul (including the ones that are below the earth and anywhere else).

God, then makes his judgement on your soul. According to what I've heard, the judgement will take place at one time, so no one can escape or dodge the judgement. Also, God checks to see if your name is written in His Book of Life. If it is, you go to heaven, and if not, then you go to hell.

It is also been told that elements of the Earth shall burn up with fervent heat. So basically, everything upon this earth will no longer exist after the rapture takes place.

It is also been told that a "new Jerusalem" will exist (which is heaven) that the good souls will dwell on forever with God.

Do not quote me on these words, because I am still studying the Bible and learning His word, and if I made a mistake anywhere, then someone please correct me and I will also ask God to forgive me for the telling or His word in a false manner.

Originally posted by amp2k3
Ok, you got that part right.
Now here's the other part. Your soul rests in your dead body until the rapture takes place. See, the soul is not dead, it is just resting in my opinion. It is said that the great trumpets will sound and can be heard from every corner of the earth. Every soul will leave the dead body and rise up towards heaven. Once the rapture, takes the place, your soul is taken up to the judgement seat with everyone else's soul (including the ones that are below the earth and anywhere else).


Actually when we Christians die, we are absent from the body, present with the Lord. It's instantaneous.

The rapture, is when Christ takes us all out of the way (Remember: Christians restrain evil things), and when we are taken out of the way, then the unbelievers are left alone with a
"man of peace" that makes a seven year peace contract with Israel and many nations. Then God will put to the test everyone who resides on this earth to make their final choice. When this Politician declares himself to be God, and can show miracles, the people will either decide to accept him, or Jesus Christ.

The "Man of Peace" that is to come will have control of the economy and if you do not accept him, you cannot legally buy or sell without his logo, name, and/or number on your right hand or forehead.

On the rapture, Christ reunites our spirits (only for the Christians that died in Christ) with our bodies, but for the Christians who are alive and remaining, they will be called up to the 3rd heaven in the twinkling of an eye, which means that it will look as though Christians are vanishing from this earth.

Now, even though it hasn't happened at the time I am writing this, it will be something. But of course, someone will come up with some "scientific B.S." that takes glory away from God. It always happens.

Originally posted by RWCTV
It's funny, but you didn't mention anything about where the souls go.

On the level of the physical realm, I know they go somewhere because there are people who have had out-of-body experiences. Peter Sellers (The Pink Panther) died once, and talked about it on an old talk show. He was scared to death when it happened to him.

Rexella Van Impe, wife of Prophecy newscaster Jack Van Impe got killed in a car accident, and told everyone what she saw in the video "Heaven" that they made.

You mean she was clinically dead in the car accident and came back from it to tell about her experiences?:confused: Or actually being killed, dead, finito, kablooie, pushing daisies didn't keep her from making a video about going to heaven?? "And now--A Peak Into Heaven, featuring the late Rexella Van Impe..." --"Hi, puny mortals, this is Rexella, here golfing on Cloud #9, Jesus is over in the cabana playing air hockey with Ben Franklin and Jimi Hendrix...":lol:

:joke: That was a Simpsons episode...

What does a soul look like? How do you know we all have one? What is your Proof (other than a 1400 year old book)? Generally, If I can't see something, I tend not to believe it, unless there is sufficient evidence to prove that it does exist.

Originally posted by M82A1
What does a soul look like?

Originally posted by dlemond


WOAH!!! :eek: ugh! if that's what a soul looks like, you can keep it!:lol:

Originally posted by amp2k3
Ok, you got that part right.

Now here's the other part. Your soul rests in your dead body until the rapture takes place. See, the soul is not dead, it is just resting in my opinion. It is said that the great trumpets will sound and can be heard from every corner of the earth. Every soul will leave the dead body and rise up towards heaven. Once the rapture, takes the place, your soul is taken up to the judgement seat with everyone else's soul (including the ones that are below the earth and anywhere else).

God, then makes his judgement on your soul. According to what I've heard, the judgement will take place at one time, so no one can escape or dodge the judgement. Also, God checks to see if your name is written in His Book of Life. If it is, you go to heaven, and if not, then you go to hell.

It is also been told that elements of the Earth shall burn up with fervent heat. So basically, everything upon this earth will no longer exist after the rapture takes place.

It is also been told that a "new Jerusalem" will exist (which is heaven) that the good souls will dwell on forever with God.

Do not quote me on these words, because I am still studying the Bible and learning His word, and if I made a mistake anywhere, then someone please correct me and I will also ask God to forgive me for the telling or His word in a false manner. That's what I belive too! Oh, I read that you said you go to the political board because you want to help the world become better with God's point of view or soemthing like that. Well, I feel the smae way. I love politics and think God gave it to me as a gift so i can help change stuff. Are you a republican too?

Also, did you know that when you become saved, the only reason you stay on earth and God doesn't take you right away is because we are suppsoed to stay here to mission to people and help them understand God, Jesus, and all of those things. Otherwise what would be the point in us staying on earth after we recieved Jesus?

Originally posted by M82A1
What does a soul look like? How do you know we all have one? What is your Proof (other than a 1400 year old book)? Generally, If I can't see something, I tend not to believe it, unless there is sufficient evidence to prove that it does exist. I'm not trying to be mean, but why do you need proof for everything? Also, you can't see the soul but you can feel the Holy Spirit in you and you knwo you have a spirit. Okay, you don't have proof the wind exists, or that air exisists but you can feel them and their effcets....

Originally posted by ~Tropical Punch 19~
I'm not trying to be mean, but why do you need proof for everything? Also, you can't see the soul but you can feel the Holy Spirit in you and you knwo you have a spirit. Okay, you don't have proof the wind exists, or that air exisists but you can feel them and their effcets....
It's like I said: I am the kind of person, who tends NOT to believe something unless there is UNDENIABLE proof that it exists. You still haven't been able to give me any evidence that God exists, when I, OTOH, have given you plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Originally posted by M82A1
It's like I said: I am the kind of person, who tends NOT to believe something unless there is UNDENIABLE proof that it exists. You still haven't been able to give me any evidence that God exists, when I, OTOH, have given you plenty of evidence to the contrary. Well than what do you think about the win, do you think it doesn't exist? Also, I agve you that website to go to that had evidence.

Originally posted by M82A1
It's like I said: I am the kind of person, who tends NOT to believe something unless there is UNDENIABLE proof that it exists. You still haven't been able to give me any evidence that God exists, when I, OTOH, have given you plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Do you have proof that love exists? You can't see it. How can you prove that you truly love someone? The only way you can prove it is real is because you have faith and believe in it. God is the same way. You prove He exists the same way someone would prove love exists, faith and beleif.

Originally posted by ~Tropical Punch 19~
That's what I belive too! Oh, I read that you said you go to the political board because you want to help the world become better with God's point of view or soemthing like that. Well, I feel the smae way. I love politics and think God gave it to me as a gift so i can help change stuff. Are you a republican too?


Politics are ok, and I don't want to try to help bring God's word to people. I don't classify myself as either a republican or a democrat, but then again I don't classify myself as a part of any other party, either. I like certain viewpoints from everyone (those which are logical and honest). :)

Originally posted by ~*Hannah_Lee*~
Do you have proof that love exists? You can't see it. How can you prove that you truly love someone? The only way you can prove it is real is because you have faith and believe in it. God is the same way. You prove He exists the same way someone would prove love exists, faith and beleif.


:clap: :clap: :clap:

Originally posted by amp2k3
Politics are ok, and I don't want to try to help bring God's word to people. I don't classify myself as either a republican or a democrat, but then again I don't classify myself as a part of any other party, either. I like certain viewpoints from everyone (those which are logical and honest). :) LOL you sound like my mom when it comes to politics. Why don't you want to help spread God's word? Just wondering.

Originally posted by ~Tropical Punch 19~
LOL you sound like my mom when it comes to politics. Why don't you want to help spread God's word? Just wondering.



I didn't mean to say that I didn't want to help spread God's word. I meant to say that I did. Sorry for that confusion, I was just typing a little too fast, that's all.
:o

Originally posted by amp2k3
I didn't mean to say that I didn't want to help spread God's word. I meant to say that I did. Sorry for that confusion, I was just typing a little too fast, that's all.
:o LOL okay. :)

Originally posted by ~*Hannah_Lee*~
Do you have proof that love exists? You can't see it. How can you prove that you truly love someone? The only way you can prove it is real is because you have faith and believe in it. God is the same way. You prove He exists the same way someone would prove love exists, faith and beleif.
There is no such thing as love, it is a figment of your imagination, just like God.

Originally posted by M82A1
There is no such thing as love, it is a figment of your imagination, just like God. Interesting. Then what do you call two people who deeply care for one another and want to spend the rest of their lives toghther, or a mother and child realtionship?

Originally posted by ~Tropical Punch 19~
Interesting. Then what do you call two people who deeply care for one another and want to spend the rest of their lives toghther, or a mother and child realtionship?
I call them "Drunk":lol:

Originally posted by M82A1
I call them "Drunk":lol: So you don't think your mom loves you?

Originally posted by M82A1
It's like I said: I am the kind of person, who tends NOT to believe something unless there is UNDENIABLE proof that it exists. You still haven't been able to give me any evidence that God exists, when I, OTOH, have given you plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Oh, like WMDs?;) :lol:

Originally posted by Captain ABlairica
Oh, like WMDs?;) :lol: :lol: :lol:

Originally posted by M82A1
There is no such thing as love, it is a figment of your imagination, just like God.

If love is a figment of our imagination, then so are the rest of our emotions. Therefore our lives are pointless and completely without meaning. However, the fact that people search for love and search for their purpose, proves in itself that there are such things. What if you walked around saying you were hungry, but there was no such thing as food. If it didnt exist, you wouldn't know about it, and therefore wouldn't search for it. The fact that we look for love, look for God, look for purpose proves that they really exist.

Originally posted by ~*Hannah_Lee*~
If love is a figment of our imagination, then so are the rest of our emotions. Therefore our lives are pointless and completely without meaning. However, the fact that people search for love and search for their purpose, proves in itself that there are such things. What if you walked around saying you were hungry, but there was no such thing as food. If it didnt exist, you wouldn't know about it, and therefore wouldn't search for it. The fact that we look for love, look for God, look for purpose proves that they really exist. :clap: :clap:

I believe in reincarnation.I hope I spelt it right.Hell, I hope I spelt spelt right!

Originally posted by M82A1
What does a soul look like? How do you know we all have one? What is your Proof (other than a 1400 year old book)? Generally, If I can't see something, I tend not to believe it, unless there is sufficient evidence to prove that it does exist.

Well can you prove that atom's exist and are all around us? You can't see those.

However, when a "1400 year old book" as you call it tends to stay updated every day, as well as containing hidden messages on current events through appearing every so many letters, than to me, that is credible enough.

If a "1400 year old book" can contain Princess Diana's death, George Bush's Presidency every so many letters, and more, than there is obviously something to it that nobody can win an argument against.

Originally posted by RWCTV
Well can you prove that atom's exist and are all around us? You can't see those.
I know I said that I was out of this argument, and I will be, but your argument is so wrong, that I can't not respond.

Whether you can see something with your eyes or not doesn't even enter into the argument at all. That's a total red herring. There are many ways of doing experiments to verify the existence of non-visible objects like atoms. Scientists believe in atoms because of generations of experiments indicating that they exist. It isn't a question of whether something is visible or not, it's a question of whether there is evidence that it exists. And evidence that can be explained dozens of ways doesn't count. You can go to any number of science books and look at the experiments that have been done to verify the existence of atoms, yet when you guys are asked for real, hard evidence that God or the afterlife exist, you invariably either just re-state your opinion without offering an evidence that it's true, or cite "evidence" that admits numerous explanations.

Originally posted by ~*Hannah_Lee*~
If love is a figment of our imagination, then so are the rest of our emotions. Therefore our lives are pointless and completely without meaning. However, the fact that people search for love and search for their purpose, proves in itself that there are such things. What if you walked around saying you were hungry, but there was no such thing as food. If it didnt exist, you wouldn't know about it, and therefore wouldn't search for it. The fact that we look for love, look for God, look for purpose proves that they really exist.

Yeah, and I was thinking, okay, M82A1 doesn't believe that God or love exist. If we can't "see" intangibles, they must not exist, what we think are "real" things like love or whatever are just fermented hormones, there is nothing noble or virtuous about it, in his opinion. Well, what about liberty, freedom? He champions the "liberty" of the U.S. and the newly-won "freedom" of Iraq. Aside from what I really believe is going on here and over there, freedom is (theoretically) something that exists and has meaning for all of us. What are we fighting for if it's not an intangible quality? You can't see or feel it like air or plants or dirt or whatever. The one thing that sets us higher than animals is our human ability to conceptualize ABOVE what is observed phenomena. Does a thing like beauty exist? Or is it just images that hit the retinas of our eyes that send crackling electronic impulses to our synapses in our brains that we interpret as "pleasing" stimuli?

Originally posted by Captain ABlairica
Yeah, and I was thinking, okay, M82A1 doesn't believe that God or love exist. If we can't "see" intangibles, they must not exist, what we think are "real" things like love or whatever are just fermented hormones, there is nothing noble or virtuous about it, in his opinion. Well, what about liberty, freedom? He champions the "liberty" of the U.S. and the newly-won "freedom" of Iraq. Aside from what I really believe is going on here and over there, freedom is (theoretically) something that exists and has meaning for all of us. What are we fighting for if it's not an intangible quality? You can't see or feel it like air or plants or dirt or whatever. The one thing that sets us higher than animals is our human ability to conceptualize ABOVE what is observed phenomena. Does a thing like beauty exist? Or is it just images that hit the retinas of our eyes that send crackling electronic impulses to our synapses in our brains that we interpret as "pleasing" stimuli?


Thank you :clap:

All sorts of intangibles and invisible things exist, and there are many ways of proving that they exist.

If someone tells someone else, "I love you," and means it, that is sufficient to prove that love exists.

Freedom exists by definition. Freedom means having the right to chose the conditions of your life, at least to the extent that you don't impinging on others' right to choose. Many people in the world have something like this, and even if no one did, the potential would exist, therefore freedom obviously exists.

Whether something is tangible or visible seems to me to have no bearing at all on the question of whether it exists. The only question that seems to me to have bearing is whether there is evidence that the thing exists.

Jeez, no-one can take a joke! I said "Love is a figment of your imagination", I meant it as a joke. Lighten up!

Originally posted by BrandonS


If someone tells someone else, "I love you," and means it, that is sufficient to prove that love exists.

. Okay You belive God doesn't exist, but if I said to God "I love you." And started praising Him and I could feel his presence then is that evidence enough?

Originally posted by BrandonS
A person is able to think because he or she has a brain with electrical and chemical activity. When you die, the machine stops and the electrical and chemical activity in your brain stops. Your tissues, including the brain, fall apart, etc. No brain, no thoughts. When the machine stops working, you don't exist anymore. It's like asking where the music recorded on a tape goes when you destroy the tape.

not quite. When you die you either go to heaven or go to hell- which is not really a place, you just die. If you go to heaven you leave eternally froever, with just your soul, in heaven. :) .

Originally posted by ~Tropical Punch 19~
Maybe that happens to our physical bodies, but not our souls. We all have souls. Everyone does. When the rapture occurs, I believe everyone will be taken in front of God,and if your name is in the "Book of the Lamb" than you will go to heaven and if your name is not, than you will go to hell. The only way you can get your name into the book, is if you personally accept Jesus into your life and admit you are a sinner and can't live without God's grace. How do I know all this? It says it in the Bible,and if anyone wants proof, or wants to talk about it you can PM or IM me anytime and I would gadly share it with you.:D

exactly. Nice explaining ;)

Originally posted by BrandonS
All sorts of intangibles and invisible things exist, and there are many ways of proving that they exist.

If someone tells someone else, "I love you," and means it, that is sufficient to prove that love exists.

Freedom exists by definition. Freedom means having the right to chose the conditions of your life, at least to the extent that you don't imping on others' right to choose. Many people in the world have something like this, and even if no one did, the potential would exist, therefore freedom obviously exists.

Whether something is tangible or visible seems to me to have no bearing at all on the question of whether it exists. The only question that seems to me to have bearing is whether there is evidence that the thing exists.


See, let's go back to something for a moment. You said it yourself that all sorts of intangible and invisible things exist, and there are many ways of proving that they exist.

Then, how come some of y'all think that God doesn't exist. We can't physically see him, but he's there. And there is a way of proving that he exists, the Bible is one way.

Preachers and missionaries are other ways. Now, granted that some of them can lie to us, but we have to be spiritually discerned in order to know that they're lying to us, because if not, then they could tell us everything under the sun, and we would foolishly believe them. But the Bible, considers those who takes God's word and then twists it around for their personal gain and/or deception of their listeners as false prophets and it also says that there is a severe and devastating punishment for them in the end.

There are many other ways of proving that God (which is invisible to us physically) does exist. If anyone else wants to pick up from where I left off, then I will gladly let you pick it up.

Originally posted by ~Tropical Punch 19~
Okay You belive God doesn't exist, but if I said to God "I love you." And started praising Him and I could feel his presence then is that evidence enough?
Yes, but it's only evidence that you feel love, and that love exists, not that God exists. How could your feeling of love for a being you believe in possibly be construed as evidence that the being really exists? If I believe that Harvey the 6 foot tall, invisible rabbit exists, and love the creature I believe in, that certainly doesn't prove that there really is such a being. It is inexplicable to me that you could accept such clearly flawed logic.

Originally posted by SBTBprincess715
not quite. When you die you either go to heaven or go to hell- which is not really a place, you just die. If you go to heaven you leave eternally froever, with just your soul, in heaven. :) .
Could you please give me some evidence that this is how it works? Evidence outside of the Bible, that is. There is a lot of evidence for the chemical / electrical nature of the brain. I will be interested in hearing your evidence.

Originally posted by amp2k3
Then, how come some of y'all think that God doesn't exist. We can't physically see him, but he's there. And there is a way of proving that he exists, the Bible is one way....

Preachers and missionaries are other ways.....

There are many other ways of proving that God (which is invisible to us physically) does exist......
1. How does the fact that the Bible says there is a God and describes his nature prove that there is one?
2. What is it about the existence of preachers and missionaries that proves that God exists? I don't quite follow that.
3. You say that there are many ways of proving that God exists. Please tell me a few of them.

Originally posted by BrandonS
1. How does the fact that the Bible says there is a God and describes his nature prove that there is one?
2. What is it about the existence of preachers and missionaries that proves that God exists? I don't quite follow that.
3. You say that there are many ways of proving that God exists. Please tell me a few of them.


1. Because you really think someone or people would sit down and take the time to write all of the stuff in the Bible itself, well, actually they did (the prophets in the Bible) but at God's instruction, if they did it for personal gain then it's called blasphemy and that is a serious sin, also.

2. Preachers and missionaries study the Bible for themselves. They know that God exists and that He talks to them and tells them to go minister to people who haven't received Him into their lives, but are looking to do so and they just don't know how to do so.

3. Some of us have already told you some examples, but you keep saying that the Bible couldn't be an example since you doubt that He created it and that He exists, but that is the biggest and most forthright example there is. Read some of the scriptures for yourself, especially the ones in red text. The ones in red text is Jesus Christ talking, and he exists, but don't just look for me to explain it to you. There are others besides myself that can do the job.

Here's an example, and I don't know if you're willing to hear this out or not. Look at the historical events that took place all over the world since the first successful human civilization began. A lot of texts say maybe 5000 B.C. (I'm not sure), but take a close look at B.C. What do you think "B.C." stands for?

Then, I want you to take a look at "A.D." What do you think the word "A.D." stands for? The Greek translation is Anno Domini (I think), but translate that into English text and what do you notice? Also, our year is 2003, but to be correct, the year is 2003 A.D.

Look on the internet or an encyclopedia for the answers to those questions and they will tell you all that you need to know.

Originally posted by amp2k3
1. Because you really think someone or people would sit down and take the time to write all of the stuff in the Bible itself, well, actually they did (the prophets in the Bible) but at God's instruction, if they did it for personal gain then it's called blasphemy and that is a serious sin, also.
I don't know whether they did it for personal gain or not. I would think they did it because they believed it. But the mere fact that people took the time to write it, doesn't prove it's true. People have written lots of things that are false.

2. Preachers and missionaries study the Bible for themselves. They know that God exists and that He talks to them and tells them to go minister to people who haven't received Him into their lives, but are looking to do so and they just don't know how to do so.
The fact that these people believe it doesn't make it so. People are frequently mistaken about things.

3. Some of us have already told you some examples, but you keep saying that the Bible couldn't be an example since you doubt that He created it and that He exists, but that is the biggest and most forthright example there is. Read some of the scriptures for yourself, especially the ones in red text. The ones in red text is Jesus Christ talking, and he exists, but don't just look for me to explain it to you. There are others besides myself that can do the job.
I understand that the Bible says that God exists and the afterlife exists. I am looking for some evidence that it's true.

Here's an example, and I don't know if you're willing to hear this out or not. Look at the historical events that took place all over the world since the first successful human civilization began. A lot of texts say maybe 5000 B.C. (I'm not sure), but take a close look at B.C. What do you think "B.C." stands for?

Then, I want you to take a look at "A.D." What do you think the word "A.D." stands for? The Greek translation is Anno Domini (I think), but translate that into English text and what do you notice? Also, our year is 2003, but to be correct, the year is 2003 A.D.

Look on the internet or an encyclopedia for the answers to those questions and they will tell you all that you need to know.
The fact that we use "Before Christ" and "Anno Domini" in our dating system only proves that some people believe it, not that it's true. You have asked me to look at the historical events that provide evidence of the existence of God and/or an afterlife. What are some of them?

This is my belief. It may not be yours but its mine.

I believe if you are saved and have excepted Jesus Crist into your heart that you go to Heaven. I believe Heaven is like earth except threre are no killers or rapiests. I believe we spend the rest of etirnity with God.

Will the road you are on now, take you to my place?-God

Originally posted by T.a.T.u Gurl18
This is my belief. It may not be yours but its mine.

I believe if you are saved and have excepted Jesus Crist into your heart that you go to Heaven. I believe Heaven is like earth except threre are no killers or rapiests. I believe we spend the rest of etirnity with God.

Will the road you are on now, take you to my place?-God thats what I believe

Originally posted by BubbleLuvGrl026
thats what I believe

:clap: Then your one of the cool people Courtney! :D

Originally posted by T.a.T.u Gurl18
This is my belief. It may not be yours but its mine.

I believe if you are saved and have excepted Jesus Crist into your heart that you go to Heaven. I believe Heaven is like earth except threre are no killers or rapiests. I believe we spend the rest of etirnity with God.

Will the road you are on now, take you to my place?-God


Very well said T.aT.u Gurl18. Also to add to that when we are in Heaven there will be no more sickness, suffering, hurting. Also there will be no more wars and violence it will be a very peaceful place full of love.

Originally posted by Three'sCompanyrules
Very well said T.aT.u Gurl18. Also to add to that when we are in Heaven there will be no more sickness, suffering, hurting. Also there will be no more wars and violence it will be a very peaceful place full of love.

Yes i'm sorry i forgot to add that.

I hope the world ends soon. I'm tired of being here. I hate it everytime i hear a child has been murdered or molested or kidnaped. Or that a man has beat his wife to death. Or that a schoolmate shoots another schoolmate cause he was "made fun of" I'd rather spend my time with the man who died on the cross for us then stay here, At least in heaven i won't have to worry that someone is gonna kill me.

Originally posted by T.a.T.u Gurl18
:clap: Then your one of the cool people Courtney! :D haha I know I am! JK :p

Originally posted by BrandonS
I know I said that I was out of this argument, and I will be, but your argument is so wrong, that I can't not respond.

When you guys are asked for real, hard evidence that God or the afterlife exist, you invariably either just re-state your opinion without offering an evidence that it's true, or cite "evidence" that admits numerous explanations.

There is plenty of evidence out there. It's just that the people who deny it are ignorant to the fact that when you are a Christian, you see and experience more that prove God's existance.

When, for example you possess the Holy Spirit, then you have true Peace. When you hear all these things about nuclear war, rampant immorality in the laws of the land, and such, we know that Jesus said that these things must first come to pass. And when it does, he tells Christians "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draws nigh. (Luke 21:28)

That is the redemption of the body, when the rapture occurs.

To the people who do not believe, the Bible says that they are blind. When I was growing up, I thought that their souls could not see, when they departed from their physical bodies. I was wrong. I know exactly what it means now.

People who do not believe are blind to the spirit realm altogether. All they dwell on is what goes on in the flesh and in the physical realm.

Demonic forces take advantage of that. Things happen to us Christians that try to knock us down. Strange things, very strange thoughts, and intimidation that we must reject, or we will get into serious trouble if we act upon them happen to us. We live the proof of God and Satan's existance every day.

When reading educating books on Prophecy, and then reading newspapers (with the information from the Bible and Bible prophecy books sticking in my head) you can see the merging of the news in the newspapers and the prophetic scenario described in the Bible.

To those that are strictly "blind", then you would be looking for the archealogical evidence, and there is a ton out there. Look at how many Orthadox Jews there are in Jerusalem that find artifacts. How about, when last year they found that tablet that was missing since the book of Kings in the Old Testament was around?

What about the Dead Sea scrolls that were circulated in museums worldwide? How about the fact that Dinosaurs were killed off from the flood and not from some stupid heatwave. If that happened, then we wouldn't exist as well. Take into consideration the fact that the Jews, God's elect are still alive, when certain races do not even exist anymore. That is definately Supernaturally involved.

And finally, what about the stories of people seeing spirits in cemetaries and dishes flying around in their house? Those are demons, and they are roaming heavens one and two (the Earth and Space). But then again, how can one understand all of this when they are totally ignorant to the Spirit world? They can't.

You cannot "PROVE" God's existence! Period! To think that you can or need to is numero uno on the list of "this guy/gal is full of it, wackydacky, boobyshooby, in woo woosville!
Honestly, RW and the rest of you, if you want to believe in God that's one thing. Why do you feel the need to Prove you feelings? You can have your feelings. No one is stopping you. Quit harrasing the buffalo turds out of everyone who doesn't give a buffalo turd if you believe in Jesus.:eek:

Finally, someone who doesn't simply ignore the question and merely give additional unsubstantiated claims.

Originally posted by RWCTV
There is plenty of evidence out there....

To those that are strictly "blind", then you would be looking for the archealogical evidence, and there is a ton out there. Look at how many Orthadox Jews there are in Jerusalem that find artifacts. How about, when last year they found that tablet that was missing since the book of Kings in the Old Testament was around? What about the Dead Sea scrolls that were circulated in museums worldwide?
How does finding artifacts suggest that God exists? I don't understand your point.

How about the fact that Dinosaurs were killed off from the flood and not from some stupid heatwave. If that happened, then we wouldn't exist as well. Take into consideration the fact that the Jews, God's elect are still alive, when certain races do not even exist anymore. That is definately Supernaturally involved.
You are actually asking why what killed the dinosaurs didn't kill us too? Maybe it's because the first human was born 70 million years after the last dinosaur died. It doesn't speak well for your cause that you are so completely uninformed about the theory you are criticizing. You also say that because the Jews have survived as a people, when some ethnic groups have become extinct, it proves that God did it. Does the fact that the Hindus have survived prove that Brahma, Shiva, and Vishnu did it?

And finally, what about the stories of people seeing spirits in cemetaries and dishes flying around in their house? Those are demons, and they are roaming heavens one and two (the Earth and Space). But then again, how can one understand all of this when they are totally ignorant to the Spirit world? They can't.
What about the stories in ancient Rome of people seeing statues of the Roman Gods speak to them? What about the stories people tell of successful astrological predictions? I don't believe those anecdotes prove anything and I don't believe that yours do either.

Originally posted by Kitt
You cannot "PROVE" God's existence! Period! To think that you can or need to is numero uno on the list of "this guy/gal is full of it, wackydacky, boobyshooby, in woo woosville!
Honestly, RW and the rest of you, if you want to believe in God that's one thing. Why do you feel the need to Prove you feelings? You can have your feelings. No one is stopping you. Quit harrasing the buffalo turds out of everyone who doesn't give a buffalo turd if you believe in Jesus.:eek: Because BrandonS and the other guy ( I forgot his user name) kept asking for evidence. ANd I ma sorry, i don't mean to harrass anybody i was just saying what I belive

I think that if you live a good life and accept god as your savior then you will go to heaven. If you don't accept him as your savior then you will go to hell. I have personally accepted god as my savior.

Originally posted by RWCTV
There is plenty of evidence out there. It's just that the people who deny it are ignorant to the fact that when you are a Christian, you see and experience more that prove God's existance.


:clap: :clap :clap:

Very well put.

Originally posted by RWCTV
There is plenty of evidence out there. It's just that the people who deny it are ignorant to the fact that when you are a Christian, you see and experience more that prove God's existance.
Excellent! Well, if you have all this evidence, can you tell me some of it? Then I can believe in God too. But, please, no evidence that admits numerous different explanations.

This thread depresses the crap out of me because I don't and I repeat I don't know what to believe! I mean, both sides prove really good points. And some of you are saying that if we have our doubts about God exsisting...then we go to hell. Does that mean I'm going to go to hell? I don't like to think that because I don't consider myself a bad person at all. Just a very confused person. Anyway, I believe that if God does exsist, if you're a good person that's all that matters.

Originally posted by *A TV People*
This thread depresses the crap out of me because I don't and I repeat I don't know what to believe! I mean, both sides prove really good points. And some of you are saying that if we have our doubts about God exsisting...then we go to hell. Does that mean I'm going to go to hell? I don't like to think that because I don't consider myself a bad person at all. Just a very confused person. Anyway, I believe that if God does exsist, if you're a good person that's all that matters.
This thread doesn't depress me, but it seems kind of pointless and annoying. It's like certain snack foods like fritos or goldfish. You quickly pass the point where you really want to keep eating them, but for some reason you do.

Originally posted by BrandonS
Could you please give me some evidence that this is how it works? Evidence outside of the Bible, that is. There is a lot of evidence for the chemical / electrical nature of the brain. I will be interested in hearing your evidence.

I am not going to bash your religon but-1. How do you think we came to this earth and how do you think all of these things we have came abiut? 2. We would all be dead if it weren't for Jesus dieing on the cross for our sins. You belive what you want to beliv but me and Shannon know.

Originally posted by *A TV People*
This thread depresses the crap out of me because I don't and I repeat I don't know what to believe! I mean, both sides prove really good points. And some of you are saying that if we have our doubts about God exsisting...then we go to hell. Does that mean I'm going to go to hell? I don't like to think that because I don't consider myself a bad person at all. Just a very confused person. Anyway, I believe that if God does exsist, if you're a good person that's all that matters.

Why does a person go to hell for questioning God, anyway??:confused: Is it like Christians never had questions about God or ever questioned Him?

Originally posted by Captain ABlairica
Why does a person go to hell for questioning God, anyway??:confused: Is it like Christians never had questions about God or ever questioned Him?
Based on most of the posts here, the answer might be yes.

Originally posted by SBTBprincess715
I am not going to bash your religon but-1. How do you think we came to this earth and how do you think all of these things we have came abiut?
Part 1 of the above question: Evolution
Part 2 of the above question: All what things we have? Arms and legs? Evolution. DVD players? Science. Please clarify the question.

Originally posted by Captain ABlairica
Why does a person go to hell for questioning God, anyway??:confused: Is it like Christians never had questions about God or ever questioned Him? A person doesn't go to hell for questioning God. I have many questions about God and his decisions that I'd liek to know. If you are not a beliver in God and have not accepted Jesus Christ, then you will go to hell.

Originally posted by *A TV People*
This thread depresses the crap out of me because I don't and I repeat I don't know what to believe! I mean, both sides prove really good points. And some of you are saying that if we have our doubts about God exsisting...then we go to hell. Does that mean I'm going to go to hell? I don't like to think that because I don't consider myself a bad person at all. Just a very confused person. Anyway, I believe that if God does exsist, if you're a good person that's all that matters. It is a deep conversation, and yes this topic can be very scary. If you want to talk ot me more about my religous views and stuff or have any questiona feel free to talk to me whenever you want. I would love to help you better understand what I belive if you don't want to that's okay. But I don't want you to feel this way.

Originally posted by ~Tropical Punch 19~
It is a deep conversation, and yes this topic can be very scary. If you want to talk ot me more about my religous views and stuff or have any questiona feel free to talk to me whenever you want. I would love to help you better understand what I belive if you don't want to that's okay. But I don't want you to feel this way.
I don't agree with you, and I'm not going to come around to your way of thinking, but I'm very impressed with your tranquility and your empathy for other people.

Originally posted by BrandonS
I don't agree with you, and I'm not going to come around to your way of thinking, but I'm very impressed with your tranquility and your empathy for other people. Thank you. :)

Originally posted by ~Tropical Punch 19~
A person doesn't go to hell for questioning God. I have many questions about God and his decisions that I'd liek to know. If you are not a beliver in God and have not accepted Jesus Christ, then you will go to hell.

Wow, what a selfish god you guys have. I'm glad he's not my god anymore.

"Accept the magic that is me or forever burn in the lake of fire."

Your god isn't such an awesome god after all.

Originally posted by AKA
Wow, what a selfish god you guys have. I'm glad he's not my god anymore.

"Accept the magic that is me or forever burn in the lake of fire."

Your god isn't such an awesome god after all. He's not being selfish. He gives us a choice and clearly states it. How can you deifne a "good person" anyway?

Originally posted by ~Tropical Punch 19~
A person doesn't go to hell for questioning God. I have many questions about God and his decisions that I'd liek to know. If you are not a beliver in God and have not accepted Jesus Christ, then you will go to hell. Shannon this is TOTALLLY off topic BUT I LOVE your New Siggy that song is one of my ALL time Favorite Disney songs :)

Originally posted by ~Tropical Punch 19~
A person doesn't go to hell for questioning God. I have many questions about God and his decisions that I'd liek to know. If you are not a beliver in God and have not accepted Jesus Christ, then you will go to hell.

I get it now!! You accept Jesus so you won't go to hell!! Like fire insurance!!

Originally posted by AnahiemPMWitch
Shannon this is TOTALLLY off topic BUT I LOVE your New Siggy that song is one of my ALL time Favorite Disney songs :) LOL thanks :) :D

Originally posted by Captain ABlairica
I get it now!! You accept Jesus so you won't go to hell!! Like fire insurance!! I thought you were a Christian? I thought I read somewhere you went to a methodist church or soemthing and I thought they belived how I believe. Maybe I misunderstood something you said earlier andf thought you siad that? I'm confused.

Originally posted by ~Tropical Punch 19~
LOL thanks :) :D No Problem :lol: I sing that song all the time to my kids at work

Originally posted by Captain ABlairica
I get it now!! You accept Jesus so you won't go to hell!! Like fire insurance!! :lol: It's a little more expensive than fire insurance. You have to sell your ablity to free think. Not to mention making constant donations to the church of your lack of choice.

Originally posted by Kitt
:lol: It's a little more expensive than fire insurance. You have to sell your ablity to free think. Not to mention making constant donations to the church of your lack of choice.

"Free think"?? You mean I now have to PAY for that, too??:confused:


:lol:

Originally posted by ~Tropical Punch 19~
I thought you were a Christian? I thought I read somewhere you went to a methodist church or soemthing and I thought they belived how I believe. Maybe I misunderstood something you said earlier andf thought you siad that? I'm confused.

Yes, I AM a Christian. I said about "fire insurance" because too many Christians seem to bank on the "fear of hell" thing more than emphasizing the love of God that draws us near to Him. It's more "effective" to get them into church and paint the whole "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" thing rather than to deal with people's spiritual needs and longings.

I remember one case that explains this clearly: Several years ago, the son of an assistant pastor at my church went up to be baptised. Now this kid was kind of a punk, you know, "Pastor's Kid", etc. He thought he was so cool and I thought he was a twerp. But anyway, he goes up, gets dunked, and the (senior) pastor asks him what's the best thing about being a Christian, and kid said, "The fact that I'm not going to hell..."

That's the "BEST" thing???:confused: :eek: Uhhh, okay, going to hell prollllllly ain't a fun thing, but what does that say about our coming to God??? I explained to my friends who were part of the "hellfire" club, it's like, "What's it gonna be, glorified flesh--or TOASTY flesh???!!!! Crackle, crackle, crackle!!!"

"Gee, Lord, thanks for not throwing me into the lake of fire or nothin', where there's burning and weeping and gnashing of teeth in the outer darkness and the worm dieth not..." One's "Christian" life at that point revolves around FEAR and TERROR of God and this self-assured feeling of PERFORMANCE AND SECURITY. "I better not do anything to make God mad, etc." and "See, Lord, I'm just soakin' up the Son and doing Yer holy bit, not like the OTHER unrighteous pagans..."

There is a difference between false security and true assurance one is living in the grace of God.

Originally posted by Captain ABlairica
Yes, I AM a Christian. I said about "fire insurance" because too many Christians seem to bank on the "fear of hell" thing more than emphasizing the love of God that draws us near to Him. It's more "effective" to get them into church and paint the whole "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" thing rather than to deal with people's spiritual needs and longings.

I remember one case that explains this clearly: Several years ago, the son of an assistant pastor at my church went up to be baptised. Now this kid was kind of a punk, you know, "Pastor's Kid", etc. He thought he was so cool and I thought he was a twerp. But anyway, he goes up, gets dunked, and the (senior) pastor asks him what's the best thing about being a Christian, and kid said, "The fact that I'm not going to hell..."

That's the "BEST" thing???:confused: :eek: Uhhh, okay, going to hell prollllllly ain't a fun thing, but what does that say about our coming to God??? I explained to my friends who were part of the "hellfire" club, it's like, "What's it gonna be, glorified flesh--or TOASTY flesh???!!!! Crackle, crackle, crackle!!!"

"Gee, Lord, thanks for not throwing me into the lake of fire or nothin', where there's burning and weeping and gnashing of teeth in the outer darkness and the worm dieth not..." One's "Christian" life at that point revolves around FEAR and TERROR of God and this self-assured feeling of PERFORMANCE AND SECURITY. "I better not do anything to make God mad, etc." and "See, Lord, I'm just soakin' up the Son and doing Yer holy bit, not like the OTHER unrighteous pagans..."

There is a difference between false security and true assurance one is living in the grace of God.

That's a really good point. I myself don't think you should "scare people out of Hell." Because then they are accepting God because of fear. I think the best way to win someone to Christ is to let them see the benefits and wonderful things the life has, besides the fact that you're not going to Hell.

Originally posted by AKA
Wow, what a selfish god you guys have. I'm glad he's not my god anymore.

"Accept the magic that is me or forever burn in the lake of fire."

Your god isn't such an awesome god after all.

I don't think God is selfish, but the Bible does say that God is a "jealous god."

Originally posted by Captain ABlairica
Yes, I AM a Christian. I said about "fire insurance" because too many Christians seem to bank on the "fear of hell" thing more than emphasizing the love of God that draws us near to Him. It's more "effective" to get them into church and paint the whole "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" thing rather than to deal with people's spiritual needs and longings.

I remember one case that explains this clearly: Several years ago, the son of an assistant pastor at my church went up to be baptised. Now this kid was kind of a punk, you know, "Pastor's Kid", etc. He thought he was so cool and I thought he was a twerp. But anyway, he goes up, gets dunked, and the (senior) pastor asks him what's the best thing about being a Christian, and kid said, "The fact that I'm not going to hell..."

That's the "BEST" thing???:confused: :eek: Uhhh, okay, going to hell prollllllly ain't a fun thing, but what does that say about our coming to God??? I explained to my friends who were part of the "hellfire" club, it's like, "What's it gonna be, glorified flesh--or TOASTY flesh???!!!! Crackle, crackle, crackle!!!"

"Gee, Lord, thanks for not throwing me into the lake of fire or nothin', where there's burning and weeping and gnashing of teeth in the outer darkness and the worm dieth not..." One's "Christian" life at that point revolves around FEAR and TERROR of God and this self-assured feeling of PERFORMANCE AND SECURITY. "I better not do anything to make God mad, etc." and "See, Lord, I'm just soakin' up the Son and doing Yer holy bit, not like the OTHER unrighteous pagans..."

There is a difference between false security and true assurance one is living in the grace of God. Okay I gotcha. :D

Originally posted by AKA
Wow, what a selfish god you guys have. I'm glad he's not my god anymore.

"Accept the magic that is me or forever burn in the lake of fire."

Your god isn't such an awesome god after all.

Your sins are what gets you into hell. God sent his son, a sinless sacrifice, to take the penalty for our sins. Since our sins go back to the cross and die there, the sinless blood of Christ blot out our sins and thusly sin isn't allowed into heaven.

I don't know what god you worship, but I know for a fact my God is out there.

So, to answer the question originally asked - nothing. That's what I think happens when you die. Do I like that situation? No, it's gross, but that's what I think happens. The only evidence that I have to the contrary is one book written by the ancients, and that's not much evidence at all. The book even pre-dates the invention of 99.9% of our science.

Oh, sure, I could say, "I just know that when I die, I'll end up in a theme park like Disneyland, only larger and magical, and I shall dwell there forever. I just know it. It just feels so right." But the fact is that I don't know anything of the kind.

Duplicate post

Originally posted by Kitt
:lol: It's a little more expensive than fire insurance. You have to sell your ablity to free think. Not to mention making constant donations to the church of your lack of choice.

When did this start? I am not a "robot". I know that I'm free to think whenever I want, and I do. I, and normal Christians choose to do things for Christ because he has done so much for us.

As for the thing about the church, I know what you mean.
At my church, we have an offering plate but it is not passed around. It sits in the back of the church and whoever feels like donating money can do so, no pressure.

The thing with the money starts with the Catholics. Did you know that a co-worker of mine was threatened with a late enrollment fee for not enrolling her kid into CCD before the deadline? At my church, Sunday school is free. Those people, she told me yelled at her, as if she didn't have enough headaches to top that off.

My Grandfather doesn't want anything to do with Religious things because he feels that they have their money in your pockets and that he already has bought his salvation. Money cannot buy salvation. It is a personal thing, so I know the struggle.

I get stark-raving pissed when someone is pressured to give money. Another co-worker of mine told me that she (a Methodist) had to give a certain percent of her family's earnings.

That's wrong!! Choice is what people should give on, if they feel like it.

Originally posted by BrandonS
Excellent! Well, if you have all this evidence, can you tell me some of it? Then I can believe in God too. But, please, no evidence that admits numerous different explanations.

Brandon, the evidence is out there, it's just that people like you refuse to see it.

You keep bringing up Evolution, something that came out in the 1700's, well what happened before that THEORY? Theory is not stated as fact. You mentioned in another post that "I am not informed", well the truth is "I am not brainwashed".

When doing the research on the theory of Evolution, you have this. In the 1700's many people were God fearing Christians. When Darwin's theory (his own rebellion) came out, it was going against the current of the Christian nations. It was a radical fundamentalist view. Now when Madelyn Murray O' Hare and her son (who is now a born-again Christian minister) won in taking God's teachings of morality out of the school, they adopted Darwin's radical view and injected it in the mainstream. Now we have two generations parroting the same stuff, and now you cannot pass a Biology exam in college without knowing it.

You say something about 70 million years, when some scientists even admit that the earth is really not much older than six thousand years old. It doesn't make any sense. Then you say that science was around before the Bible. Well, there were scientific ways in building pyramids, and creating metals and such, but there was no theory of evolution. If you take Egypt, and go into their ancient religious writings, they were merely following what the Bible has warned in other subjects as Docrtrines of Demons.

How, in your opinion do you think that the Jews broke free from being slaves under the Egyptians for generations? Evolution doesn't add up.

I know that God exists through personal experience. I will pray for courage to do or say something, and God knows that I'm crazy enough to do it, and I am, and he will open a door for me. Since you are not open to the spiritual realm that Christians go through and the fact that you it would make you doubt everything you ever knew, (science wise) than I can understand your argument. But for me to ignore the Spiritual realm and bury my head in the sand would hurt me rather than help me.

As I said in my first "Bible Prophecy Today" post, why do we get Easter and Christmas off of work, when they are the most important holidays to our faith, and they remind us of the sacrifice that was made for us. We do not get those holidays off because of a fat guy who gives away toys, and a day off for rabbits and eggs (lol). There is a reason why time "reset" itself. The years count to the days since Christ made his promise on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem and ascended into heaven.

Originally posted by RWCTV
Brandon, the evidence is out there, it's just that people like you refuse to see it.
Well, if the evidence is out there, then why is it that no matter how many times we ask you to tell us some of it, you merely re-state your opinions, but don't provide any of this evidence?


You keep bringing up Evolution, something that came out in the 1700's, well what happened before that THEORY? Theory is not stated as fact. You mentioned in another post that "I am not informed", well the truth is "I am not brainwashed".
No, the truth is that you're not informed. Darwin wasn't even born in the 1700s. He was born in 1809 and published his book in 1859. Don't you feel any responsibility at all to familiarize yourself with the scientific theory you go around asserting to be false?

....You say something about 70 million years, when some scientists even admit that the earth is really not much older than six thousand years old. It doesn't make any sense.
And what fraction of the workers in the relevant sciences, e.g. geology, astrophysics believe that the Earth is not much more than 6000 years old? 1%?

Then you say that science was around before the Bible. Well, there were scientific ways in building pyramids, and creating metals and such, but there was no theory of evolution. If you take Egypt, and go into their ancient religious writings, they were merely following what the Bible has warned in other subjects as Docrtrines of Demons.
Geez, can't you even quote me correctly? I said that the Bible pre-dates essentially all science.

Now here's the point. We ask you guys over and over and over to state some of your evidence, and when you even acknowledge the question at all, the most you'll do is say, "The evidence is out there." Once again I ask you, please tell me specifically and simply what some of the evidence is. And please don't give me any evidence that admits dozens of different explanations.

Originally posted by BrandonS
So, to answer the question originally asked - nothing. That's what I think happens when you die. Do I like that situation? No, it's gross, but that's what I think happens. The only evidence that I have to the contrary is one book written by the ancients, and that's not much evidence at all. The book even pre-dates the invention of 99.9% of our science.

Oh, sure, I could say, "I just know that when I die, I'll end up in a theme park like Disneyland, only larger and magical, and I shall dwell there forever. I just know it. It just feels so right." But the fact is that I don't know anything of the kind.

But what would you do when you died and came out of your body? You saw your body laying on the ground. Sure, you are entitled to the choice you made, and you decide to reject Christ. That is why God allows everyone free will. You either accept the free gift, or reject it. It's kind of like cake, you either want a piece or you don't.

Originally posted by BrandonS
Well, if the evidence is out there, then why is it that no matter how many times we ask you to tell us some of it, you merely re-state your opinions, but don't provide any of this evidence?

No, the truth is that you're not informed. Darwin wasn't even born in the 1700s. He was born in 1809 and published his book in 1859. Don't you feel any responsibility at all to familiarize yourself with the scientific theory you go around asserting to be false?

Now here's the point. We ask you guys over and over and over to state some of your evidence, and when you even acknowledge the question at all, the most you'll do is say, "The evidence is out there." Once again I ask you, please tell me specifically and simply what some of the evidence is. And please don't give me any evidence that admits dozens of different explanations.

Well, here's the thing on this. If I did mention "proof" as you call it (and I mentioned very few things that are "proof" enough to me), then you would just scoff it off, as you have been doing.

You think that we came from monkeys (trying not to laugh), but if we did come from monkeys, then how come monkeys still exist as a seperate species? Why don't monkeys speak English and have a "religion" and culture of their own.

You have been misinformed. You cannot convince me that a radical fundementalist who tried to challenge the current (and throughout the 1800's the Christian current was still there anyway) You see Satan (now here's the part where you're suppose to drift off) deceives people. You can say that the sun does not give off light, and I can take you outside and show you, and you still won't believe it.

To others who actually get what I'm saying, and whoever else on this board, if you study the Bible and take history, combine them together, you get a clear picture.

Satan knows that he has a short time, so he needed someone to try and teach these misleading things so that people would be confused and not think about Christ for what he is, but as another "religion".

Satan has a hatred for the Jews and gave Mohammed deceiving thoughts to write so that the Muslims would be constantly attacking the Jews, and claiming the land as the property of the Muslims, leaving murder, hate, and constant battles between the two.

The reason that you don't believe this kind of stuff is not just the fact that you rely on physical visual stuff, but also because you are not used to seeing the Dead sea split in two, floods that have covered the entire earth, someone die for ones sins. That stuff to you guys are all seperate from what you call the "real world" and all contained in one book that promotes faith.

But since School (Public School) teaches you a THEORY, and does not tie it in with any religious roots, then you are quick to adopt it and pass it off as FACT, when even it is worded as a THEORY. Then you pointed out that evolution was written in the 1800's which makes my argument even more supported to others who support your view. The point I was making with that was that, the THEORY of evolution is a baby compared to the existance of the Bible.

Why would a book say something that is false? If it was false, what kind of goal would it acheive? Why has it made better people out of Christians? Why do Christians find vital answers and peace from what this book says? Why, when I act on faith in Christ does thing turn out better for me? And the last question for this thread is this:

Sometimes I have a psycho-bad temper (usually at work when someone pisses me off), then why does my faith eventually intervene and restrain what I would normally do? Why do I show mercy to people sometimes when someone accidentally does something that makes me angry? Without faith, how can I control my temper? I don't know because I've been able to defeat those types of things just because of my faith and the peace and wisdom that some of those passages in that "ancient book" have.

Originally posted by RWCTV
You keep bringing up Evolution, something that came out in the 1700's, well what happened before that THEORY? Theory is not stated as fact. You mentioned in another post that "I am not informed", well the truth is "I am not brainwashed".
First of all, The theory of evolution came out in the 1850's, second of all, the theory of evolution explains how life on earth has changed. In scientific terms, "theory" does not mean "guess" or "hunch" as it does in everyday usage. Scientific theories are explanations of natural phenomena built up logically from testable observations and hypotheses. Biological evolution is the best scientific explanation we have for the enormous range of observations about the living world.

Scientists most often use the word "fact" to describe an observation. But scientists can also use fact to mean something that has been tested or observed so many times that there is no longer a compelling reason to keep testing or looking for examples. The occurrence of evolution in this sense is a fact. Scientists no longer question whether descent with modification occurred because the evidence supporting the idea is so strong.

You say something about 70 million years, when some scientists even admit that the earth is really not much older than six thousand years old. It doesn't make any sense.
Then show us some proof. 6000 YEARS OLD!?!?!? How the F*** do you explain Dinosaurs!?!?!? Scientific Carbon Dating has prooved the earth is OVER 4.6 BILLION years old. You CANNOT deny science.

Originally posted by RWCTV
You think that we came from monkeys (trying not to laugh), but if we did come from monkeys, then how come monkeys still exist as a seperate species? Why don't monkeys speak English and have a "religion" and culture of their own.
Humans did not evolve from modern apes, but humans and modern apes shared a common ancestor, a species that no longer exists. Because we shared a recent common ancestor with chimpanzees and gorillas, we have many anatomical, genetic, biochemical, and even behavioral similarities with the African great apes. We are less similar to the Asian apes—orangutans and gibbons—and even less similar to monkeys, because we shared common ancestors with these groups in the more distant past.

Evolution is a branching or splitting process in which populations split off from one another and gradually become different. As the two groups become isolated from each other, they stop sharing genes, and eventually genetic differences increase until members of the groups can no longer interbreed. At this point, they have become separate species. Through time, these two species might give rise to new species, and so on through millennia.

If we did not evolve from apes (like you say), Then Why do Apes and Humans have the same DNA???

Originally posted by RWCTV
Well, here's the thing on this. If I did mention "proof" as you call it (and I mentioned very few things that are "proof" enough to me), then you would just scoff it off, as you have been doing.
Well, once again, when asked for evidence, you are unable to provide any. This time your method of not providing any is to say that I would scoff if you did, but the bottom line is that no matter how much you are asked for evidence of your theory of the universe, you never provide any. I would only scoff at your evidence if it were something that didn't approach the status of evidence (like "I saw this beautiful light beam shine through my window one morning and I knew there just had to be a God"). If it were even a decent attempt at evidence, I would consider it.

I guess the other guy answered most of the rest of it, but I would like to say that to this point you have:

1. Thought that evolutionists believed that man and dinosaur co-existed,
when, in fact, we believe the two species to be separated by 70 million
years,
2. Believed that Darwin did his work during the 18th century, when it
was the 19th,
3. Not understood that no one is saying that humans are descended
from modern apes, but rather that they have a common ape-like
ancestor.

The fact is that you appear to know nothing about the theory of evolution by natural selection, but that it doesn't stop you from asserting that it's wrong. If it were me, and I were going around saying that a theory was wrong, I would feel a responsibility to know what the theory is first. And, as the other guy pointed out, you appear to have no concept of the scientific uses of the term theory and hypothesis. A theory, like evolution, is one that is regarded as having been proven by evidence. Our common ape-like ancestor had offspring that became geographically isolated from each other and evolved differently. The group that we come from specialized in intelligence, the groups that modern apes are descended from just became more advanced monkeys.

Originally posted by M82A1
First of all, "theory" does not mean "guess" or "hunch" as it does in everyday usage. Scientific theories are explanations of natural phenomena built up logically from testable observations and hypotheses.

You just grilled your own argument by stating the above.
Let's go your route and go to the 1592 definition of a theory.
Definition #1: the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another.
The fact: Is that God created the universe, man, and the Bible. Then one man in the 1800's (excuse me) tries to challenge it by using the second definition in order to support his argument.

Definition #2: Abstract thought: Speculation
What is speculation? Well the 14th Century definition is
An assumption of unusual business risk in hopes of obtaining commensurate gain.

Now an assumption is assuming. And what do they say when you assume? It makes an ASS out of U and ME.

A Hypothesis is also another name for "An educated guess".

If you defend Evolution so much, then how can you answer these questions?
How did the sun, moon and stars "evolve"?
Why did time start over after the resurrection of Christ? If this earth is fifty zillion or whatever years old, then how did this year get to be the year 2003? and how come they never say 70 million years B.C.?

The mainstream Scientific community is not going to admit Christ's legitimacy. It would hurt their pride, and these people have too much of it where it doesn't belong.

We are talking about a Scientific community where they said that an engine could not be made without the source of fuel. Well someone made one, and the only thing that it takes to operate is a single spark. The man took the engine to a Science fair, they punched in the numbers into their calculators, and the project proved them wrong. The man's project was dismissed, and he is now looking for a sponsor to finance the distribution of his invention. If the Scientific community is going to be so anal about an engine, then whose to say that they won't be so anal when it comes to biblical credibility.

Then I have another question for you, and this will be the hardest for you to answer.
If the Bible is not real (as you say), then how come it talks about Jesus entering the main gate of Jerusalem when he returns. How come the Jews talk about that gate in their tours and how their messiah will enter through it? Why, through people trying to tear it down, has it never been torn down? God knows that if one thing is wrong in the original Bible, then the Bible would loose it's credibility. Why does that gate still exist, and why do people die, or why do the plans change when people try to demolish it?

Try to answer that one.

Originally posted by BrandonS
Well, once again, when asked for evidence, you are unable to provide any.

A theory, like evolution, is one that is regarded as having been proven by evidence. Our common ape-like ancestor had offspring that became geographically isolated from each other and evolved differently. The group that we come from specialized in intelligence, the groups that modern apes are descended from just became more advanced monkeys.

No, you are unable to listen to any. You see, the evidence in Christians reside in thinking not only through the brain, but through the heart and the brain, and your argument is strictly carnal and excludes any and all of the spiritual realm that me and many Christians see through experience. You will not see, because you choose to listen to some dead activist from the 1800's.

Actually, I can play the same argument with Sir Isaac Newton. He was around before Darwin, and was a theologian who also discovered gravity. Read this.

2 Peter 1:20-21 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

SIR ISAAC NEWTON SET 2060 FOR END OF THE WORLD

Link: http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/02/22/newt22.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/02/22/ixnewstop.html/news/2003/02/22/newt22.xml

February 23, 2003 The London Daily Telegraph reports: “Sir Isaac Newton, Britain's greatest scientist, predicted the date of the end of the world - and it is only 57 years away.
His theories about Armageddon have been unearthed by academics from little-known handwritten manuscripts in a library in Jerusalem.
The thousands of pages show Newton's attempts to decode the Bible, which he believed contained God's secret laws for the universe.
Newton, who was also a theologian and alchemist, predicted that the Second Coming of Christ would follow plagues and war and would precede a 1,000-year reign by the saints on earth - of which he would be one.
The most definitive date he set for the apocalypse, which he scribbled on a scrap of paper, was 2060.
Newton's fascination with the end of the world, which has been researched by a Canadian academic, Stephen Snobelen, is to be explored in a documentary, Newton: The Dark Heretic, on BBC2 next Saturday.
‘What has been coming out over the past 10 years is what an apocalyptic thinker Newton was,’ Malcolm Neaum, the producer, said.
‘He spent something like 50 years and wrote 4,500 pages trying to predict when the end of the world was coming. But until now it was not known that he ever wrote down a final figure. He was very reluctant to do so.’
Thousands of Newton's papers, which had lain in a trunk in the house of the Earl of Portsmouth for 250 years, were sold by Sotheby's in the late 1930s.
John Maynard Keynes, the economist, bought many of the texts on alchemy and theology. But much of the material went to an eccentric collector, Abraham Yahuda, and was stored in the Hebrew National Library. It was among these documents that the date was found…”

Of course, I believe his dates are off, but you mention Darwin, I mention Newton.

Newton discovers physics and gravity.

Darwin: Comes up with some "missing link" theory about man and monkey, and one day, everything just appeared in a "big blast". Oh, I'm sorry, A "Big bang". I know I will get some "heat" for this one (lol). I don't think that many things of many different designs and operations would just "appear". That man seems like he needed an insane asylum.

Seriously though, Prove the Darwin theory. If your argument is so strong, then prove it. Using documents from atheist scientists is not real "proof". Let's turn the tables and see what you can come up with. But remember, don't forget to include the gate in Jerusalem question if you decide to take on the challenge.

Originally posted by RWCTV
No, you are unable to listen to any. You see, the evidence in Christians reside in thinking not only through the brain, but through the heart and the brain, and your argument is strictly carnal and excludes any and all of the spiritual realm that me and many Christians see through experience. You will not see, because you choose to listen to some dead activist from the 1800's.

Why do you say that I am unable to listen to any evidence when you absolutely will not give any, no matter how many times we ask? How would you know whether I would listen or not? Yet again, you refuse to cite any evidence for your theory of the universe when asked to. You have a lot of snappy comebacks, but the fact is that to this moment, you have consistently refused to offer evidence. Now, below, you ask me for my evidence for evolution, which is bizarre, since you cannot be induced to offer any evidence for your theory.


Actually, I can play the same argument with Sir Isaac Newton. He was around before Darwin, and was a theologian who also discovered gravity. Read this.

2 Peter 1:20-21 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

SIR ISAAC NEWTON SET 2060 FOR END OF THE WORLD
What in the world does it prove that a great scientist from centuries ago was religious and believed that the world will end soon? He was free to believe whatever he wanted. How is this evidence of anything? So, you're saying that because a founder of modern science was religious, religion must be correct?



I don't think that many things of many different designs and operations would just "appear". That man seems like he needed an insane asylum.

Seriously though, Prove the Darwin theory. If your argument is so strong, then prove it. Using documents from atheist scientists is not real "proof". Let's turn the tables and see what you can come up with. But remember, don't forget to include the gate in Jerusalem question if you decide to take on the challenge.
Well, it's a little odd that someone who cannot ever be induced to support his ideas with evidence, now asks me for mine, but that's okay. I don't have a huge amount of time right now, but, sure, I'll sketch it out for you. I'll asnwer questions and provide any specific details you want tonight.

Evidence that Evolution is Correct:
Part 1 - It is clear that evolution does occur, because it claims only processes that common sense says must occur.
They are as follows. Animals (like us and our ancestors) who are better able to survive, tend to do so statistically more often than animals who are less well equipped to survive. Therefore, what happens is that over thousands of years, traits which tend to aid in survival, like speed, strength, intelligence, resistance to disease, etc., come to dominate the gene pool. If this were the entire story, then what would happen would be that eventually, over many thousands and millions of years, genetic characteristics which aid survival would tend to remain in existence and characteristics which hinder survival or aid it less would disappear or be greatly reduced. It is only half the story, though. The other factor is that from time to time new traits are introduced by genetic mistakes. In almost every instance a new trait is very harmful, but occasionally, a genetic mistake will acrually result in a minor improvement. Therefore, with the fact that animals better able to survive tend to have a better chance to pass their genes on, and the fact that new traits are occasionally introduced, the result must be for the creatures present on Earth to gradually change to become better equipped to survive. Animals isolated from each other geographically evolve differently, since there are so many chance events involved, and diverge into separate species.

Part 2 - We see evolution occurring in the world today
Here's one example. Viruses and bacteria, which have very short generations, develop resistance to medicines by the process of survival of the fittest that I have described above.

Part 3 - Fossil Records
I would have to do more research than I have done here to provide more specifics, but there are fossil records, which, when dated, show a continuous move towards more complex, sophisticated design. In the ancestry of humans, fossil records show such a gradual change:

Ardipithecus ramidus
The most primitive hominid yet found, this species has more chimpanzee-like features than any other human ancestor. Ardipithecus ramidus may have walked upright. Other fossils discovered with A. ramidus suggest that the species lived in the forest.
4.4 mya
first fossils found 1992

Australopithecus anamensis
Exhibiting some chimp-like characteristics, A. anamensis' jaws are more primitive than those of later hominids. And yet, its humerus (an arm bone) is quite human-like. Characteristics of its tibia (a lower leg bone) indicate that A. anamensis walked on two feet.
4.2 - 3.9 mya
first fossil found 1965

Australopithecus afarensis
This species includes "Lucy," the 3.2 million year old fossil found by Donald Johanson. A. afarensis' small braincases and relatively large teeth and chewing muscles are similar to those of chimpanzees. However, their teeth, as well as their leg and pelvis bones, exhibit human-like characteristics. They ranged in height from three and a half feet to five feet and walked upright.
3.5 - 2.9 mya
first fossils found 1973

Australopithecus africanus
Although similar in many ways to A. afarensis, this species had a slightly larger brain (but still only slightly larger than a chimp's brain), smaller canine teeth, and larger molars. The wear of the teeth suggests that A. africanus ate fruits and foliage.
3.0 - 2.4 mya
first fossils found 1924

Australopithecus robustus
Believed to be roughly the same size as A. afarensis, A. robustus had a large, "robust" (heavier, thicker) skull, as well as a jaw and large teeth that were well adapted to chewing. Like some present-day apes, this species had a "sagittal crest" (a ridge running from front to back on the top of the skull) from which muscles running to the jaw were attached.
2.1 - 1.6 mya
first fossil found 1938

Australopithecus boisei
A. boisei is similar to A. robustus, except that its skull and teeth are even larger. Some experts consider the two closely related, both branching from another species called A. aethiopicus. Others believe A. robustus evolved from A. africanus. Like all of the other Autralopithecus species, A. boisei walked upright.
2.3 - 1.1 mya
first fossil found 1959

Homo habilis
Homo habilis, which actually means "handy man," is apparently the first species to make and use primitive stone tools. About five feet tall and weighing 100 pounds, H. habilis had a brain that was larger than the largest Autralopithecus brain, but smaller than the Homo erectus brain.
2.4 - 1.5 mya
first fossil found 1960

Homo erectus
The first example of Homo erectus, known as "Java Man," was discovered in Indonesia in 1893. Fossil remains of Homo erectus have since been found throughout Africa and Asia, making it the first wide-ranging hominid. Despite the primitive appearance of its skull, the erectus skeleton is very similar to that of modern humans, although more robust (thicker and heavier). Homo erectus was probably the first hominid to use fire.
1.8 mya - 300,000 years ago
first fossil found in 1893

Homo sapiens (archaic)
Also known as Homo heidelbergensis, this species has a brain that was larger than H. erectus' and smaller than that of a modern human. The brain was enclosed in a skull that was more rounded than H. erectus'. Fossil remains of archaic Homo sapiens have been found in Africa and Europe.
500,000 - 200,000 years ago
first fossil found in 1921

Homo sapiens neanderthalensis
Averaging five and a half feet in height and possessing short limbs, Neanderthals were well-adapted to living in a cold climate. Attached to their robust (thick and heavy) bones were powerful muscles. The Neanderthal's brain was larger than the brain of living humans, although its shape was longer from front to back and not as rounded in the front.
230,000 - 30,000 years ago
first fossil found in 1856

Homo sapiens (modern)
Modern Homo sapiens, also known as Homo sapiens sapiens, have been around for the past 120,000 years. Homo sapiens living about 40,000 years ago made elaborate tools out of bone, antler, ivory, stone, and wood, and produced fine artwork in the form of carvings and cave paintings.
120,000 years ago - present

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
So to summarize, (1) evolution is composed of simple processes that common sense would indicate must occur, (2) we see it happening in the world around us, particularly observable in creatures that have short generations, because in them, changes occur fast enough for us to see, (3) there are fossil records which indicate man evolving from more primitive ancestors. If I wanted to take that far enough, I could describe fossils going back even further to small tree-dwelling creatures, and even further than that to ocean life forms.

Now, despite the fact that you have consistently refused to mention any of your evidence, other than, I suppose, "Newton was religious so it must be right, because he was smart," I have taken twenty minutes and given some of mine. Not sure what you mean by that gate in Jerusalem. Now, finally, can I prevail upon you to cite some evidence for your opinion of the origin and nature of the universe?

Originally posted by Anna4
I wanna know if what yall think happens when you die. Do you just stop existing like before you were born or something else.

we start to decompose and we poop and pee for the last time cuz since we're dead, we can't hold it in. and there can be a little noises from us, cuz it's oxygen or something still in the body.... but anyways, there's a funeral and family members and friends will come and cry then leave... we'll get buried and rot until we're bones... ~~ and if that's totally what you didn't mean, here's my not-so-sarcastic answer. lol.

maybe we're issued so many lives to live.... such as a good life, a bad life, a rich life, a poor life...whatever. or maybe we just keep getting reincarnated as different people without us even knowing... I'm not sure, sometimes I hope that we're reincarnated but sometimes it's like, this life has sucked! no way would i wanna do the whole life thing again... or maybe we're just a species on earth for a little while, and soon we'll be wiped out like the dinos, and there will be an even more hi-tech species... that would be so cool if we were reincarnated into a different species!!! as long as it's not a slug...gross.

Originally posted by BrandonS
Why do you say that I am unable to listen to any evidence when you absolutely will not give any, no matter how many times we ask? How would you know whether I would listen or not? Yet again, you refuse to cite any evidence for your theory of the universe when asked to. You have a lot of snappy comebacks, but the fact is that to this moment, you have consistently refused to offer evidence. Now, below, you ask me for my evidence for evolution, which is bizarre, since you cannot be induced to offer any evidence for your theory.


What in the world does it prove that a great scientist from centuries ago was religious and believed that the world will end soon? He was free to believe whatever he wanted? How is this evidence of anything? So, you're saying that because a founder of modern science was religious, religion must be correct?




Well, it's a little odd that someone who cannot ever be induced to support his ideas with evidence, now asks me for mine, but that's okay. I don't have a huge amount of time right now, but, sure, I'll sketch it out for you. I'll asnwer questions and provide any specific details you want tonight.

Evidence that Evolution is Correct:
Part 1 - It is clear that evolution does occur, because it claims only processes that common sense says must occur.
They are as follows. Animals (like us and our ancestors) who are better able to survive, tend to do so statistically more often than animals who are less well equipped to survive. Therefore, what happens is that over thousands of years, traits which tend to aid in survival, like speed, strength, intelligence, resistance to disease, etc., come to dominate the gene pool. If this were the entire story, then what would happen would be that eventually, over many thousands and millions of years, genetic characteristics which aid survival would tend to remain in existence and characteristics which hinder survival or aid it less would disappear or be greatly reduced. It is only half the story, though. The other factor is that from time to time new traits are introduced by genetic mistakes. In almost every instance a new trait is very harmful, but occasionally, a genetic mistake will acrually result in a minor improvement. Therefore, with the fact that animals better able to survive tend to have a better chance to pass their genes on, and the fact that new traits are occasionally introduced, the result must be for the creatures present on Earth to gradually change to become better equipped to survive. Animals isolated from each other geographically evolve differently, since there are so many chance events involved, and diverge into separate species.

Part 2 - We see evolution occurring in the world today
Here's one example. Viruses and bacteria, which have very short generations, develop resistance to medicines by the process of survival of the fittest that I have described above.

Part 3 - Fossil Records
I would have to do more research than I have done here to provide more specifics, but I believe that there are fossil records, which when dated, show a continuous move towards more complex, sophisticated design. In the ancestry of humans, fossil records show such a gradual change:

Ardipithecus ramidus
The most primitive hominid yet found, this species has more chimpanzee-like features than any other human ancestor. Ardipithecus ramidus may have walked upright. Other fossils discovered with A. ramidus suggest that the species lived in the forest.
4.4 mya
first fossils found 1992

Australopithecus anamensis
Exhibiting some chimp-like characteristics, A. anamensis' jaws are more primitive than those of later hominids. And yet, its humerus (an arm bone) is quite human-like. Characteristics of its tibia (a lower leg bone) indicate that A. anamensis walked on two feet.
4.2 - 3.9 mya
first fossil found 1965

Australopithecus afarensis
This species includes "Lucy," the 3.2 million year old fossil found by Donald Johanson. A. afarensis' small braincases and relatively large teeth and chewing muscles are similar to those of chimpanzees. However, their teeth, as well as their leg and pelvis bones, exhibit human-like characteristics. They ranged in height from three and a half feet to five feet and walked upright.
3.5 - 2.9 mya
first fossils found 1973

Australopithecus africanus
Although similar in many ways to A. afarensis, this species had a slightly larger brain (but still only slightly larger than a chimp's brain), smaller canine teeth, and larger molars. The wear of the teeth suggests that A. africanus ate fruits and foliage.
3.0 - 2.4 mya
first fossils found 1924

Australopithecus robustus
Believed to be roughly the same size as A. afarensis, A. robustus had a large, "robust" (heavier, thicker) skull, as well as a jaw and large teeth that were well adapted to chewing. Like some present-day apes, this species had a "sagittal crest" (a ridge running from front to back on the top of the skull) from which muscles running to the jaw were attached.
2.1 - 1.6 mya
first fossil found 1938

Australopithecus boisei
A. boisei is similar to A. robustus, except that its skull and teeth are even larger. Some experts consider the two closely related, both branching from another species called A. aethiopicus. Others believe A. robustus evolved from A. africanus. Like all of the other Autralopithecus species, A. boisei walked upright.
2.3 - 1.1 mya
first fossil found 1959

Homo habilis
Homo habilis, which actually means "handy man," is apparently the first species to make and use primitive stone tools. About five feet tall and weighing 100 pounds, H. habilis had a brain that was larger than the largest Autralopithecus brain, but smaller than the Homo erectus brain.
2.4 - 1.5 mya
first fossil found 1960

Homo erectus
The first example of Homo erectus, known as "Java Man," was discovered in Indonesia in 1893. Fossil remains of Homo erectus have since been found throughout Africa and Asia, making it the first wide-ranging hominid. Despite the primitive appearance of its skull, the erectus skeleton is very similar to that of modern humans, although more robust (thicker and heavier). Homo erectus was probably the first hominid to use fire.
1.8 mya - 300,000 years ago
first fossil found in 1893

Homo sapiens (archaic)
Also known as Homo heidelbergensis, this species has a brain that was larger than H. erectus' and smaller than that of a modern human. The brain was enclosed in a skull that was more rounded than H. erectus'. Fossil remains of archaic Homo sapiens have been found in Africa and Europe.
500,000 - 200,000 years ago
first fossil found in 1921

Homo sapiens neanderthalensis
Averaging five and a half feet in height and possessing short limbs, Neanderthals were well-adapted to living in a cold climate. Attached to their robust (thick and heavy) bones were powerful muscles. The Neanderthal's brain was larger than the brain of living humans, although its shape was longer from front to back and not as rounded in the front.
230,000 - 30,000 years ago
first fossil found in 1856

Homo sapiens (modern)
Modern Homo sapiens, also known as Homo sapiens sapiens, have been around for the past 120,000 years. Homo sapiens living about 40,000 years ago made elaborate tools out of bone, antler, ivory, stone, and wood, and produced fine artwork in the form of carvings and cave paintings.
120,000 years ago - present

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
So to summarize, (1) evolution is composed of simple processes that common sense would indicate must occur, (2) we see it happening in the world around us, particularly observable in creatures that have short generations, because in them, changes occur fast enough for us to see, (3) there are fossil records which indicate man evolving from more primitive ancestors. If I wanted to take that far enough, I could describe fossils going back even further to small tree-dwelling creatures, and even further than that to ocean life forms.

Now, despite the fact that you have consistently refused to mention any of your evidence, other than, I suppose, "Newton was religious so it must be right, because he was smart," I have taken twenty minutes and given some of mine. Not sure what you mean by that gate in Jerusalem. Now, finally, can I prevail upon you to cite some evidence for your opinion of the origin and nature of the universe?


You forgot to mention how and where we migrated after we first walked upright. I think I can tell it:

Location: Africa. After Australopithecus first walked, over 3 million years ago, He began to move to other places when the local food and water source ran dry, and to escape from vicious predators. this ultimately made them migrate to upper Africa, then into what is now known as Europe and the middle eastern countries, then eastward into Asia. This was during the ice age so there was less water in the ocean, so there was a land bridge connecting Russia and Alaska. At the time they were crossing this land bridge, the Ice Age was ending, the Ice caps were melting, the Land Bridge disappeared under the Pacific ocean. so that lead to the population of the Americas.

For any further questions, don't hesitate to ask me or BrandonS. We seem to have evidence for our beliefs.

You are correct, of course, but I didn't mention that because he was asking for evidence of the theory, rather than a description of it.

Originally posted by BrandonS
Why do you say that I am unable to listen to any evidence when you absolutely will not give any, no matter how many times we ask?

I will offer you the supreme evidence: Bible Prophecy

The Old Testament was written hundreds of years before the New Testament, and the Old Testament prophesied about Jesus' first coming to the earth.

The Old Testament fortold that Jesus would be born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14), in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2), He would enter the city of Jerusalem riding a donkey (Zechariah 9:9), He would be betrayed by a friend (Psalms 41:9), His hands and feet were pierced (Psalms 22:16), he cried out to God (Psalms 22:1), He would rise from the dead (Psalms 16:10).

The New Testament shows the fulfillment of the Prophesies.
Jesus was born of a virgin (Matthew 1:18, 20-23)
Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:18), and a star in the East guided the men of faith.
Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey (Matthew 21:5)
Peter was the friend who betrayed Jesus (Mark 14:68)
Jesus' hands and feet were pierced (John 20:25)
Jesus cried out to God with a loud voice (Matthew 27:46)
Jesus rose from the dead (Matthew 28:5-10)

And this was hundreds of years after the prophesies to show how credible he really was.

And the fact that he has left even more prophesies for his second coming, and that they are all happening in a fast pace, is even more credible. There are also prophesies on Christ's second coming, that were not yet fulfilled in his first coming.


[i]So, you're saying that because a founder of modern science was religious, religion must be correct?[/B]

No, I never said that Religion was correct. In fact, when Jesus spoke of religion, it was connected with evil. True faith and acceptance of Christ's salvation is correct and the truth is in us because of our allowing the Spirit guide us.

Actually in all honesty, if you do the research on Darwin, you will find that he was a theologian in his early life, yet he changed his tune. Are you saying that because the man was non-religious, than it must be fact?



[i](1) evolution is composed of simple processes that common sense would indicate must occur, (2) we see it happening in the world around us, particularly observable in creatures that have short generations, because in them, changes occur fast enough for us to see, (3) there are fossil records which indicate man evolving from more primitive ancestors. If I wanted to take that far enough, I could describe fossils going back even further to small tree-dwelling creatures, and even further than that to ocean life forms.[/B]

I read all of what you wrote, but just because they found fossils that looked similar, doesn't mean that it supports evolution. For example, how about potato chips that look like candles, birds, dogs, and what not. You will always find things that look like things, but in the scientific community, I don't believe that they should be trying to pass that off as evidence. If I found an ape skull and it was worn out and under a lot of heavy dirt for so many years, it would look more like a human skull. Since your questions of Darwin have come up, something came to me with impace and I will release it in a new post soon.



[i]Not sure what you mean by that gate in Jerusalem.[/B] Alright, to the city of Jerusalem, there is an Eastern gate. That gate was officially sealed in the early 16th century.
The wife of prophecy scholar asked someone in Jerusalem.

Rexella: Why is it still sealed? Why don't you use that gate? It would help the access into Jerusalem.

Guide: That gate will never be opened, until our Messiah comes.

Now, here is where that sealed to this day gate gets interesting.

Ezekiel 44:2: Then said the Lord unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the Lord, the God of Israel , hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.

Now man has tried to destroy the credibility of the Bible, by trying to prove this gate thing wrong, and they can't destroy it.

On December 9th, 1917, when the Grand Muftie of Jerusalem (a Muslim) decided that since the British and her allies were coming to Jerusalem, they would block every gate of Jerusalem except the Eastern Gate for the people to enter in. This attempt was conceived in hopes to break the credibility of the Bible and it's prophecy. They were ready to destroy everything to get rid of that gate. General Allenbie, a British General flew the new invention of the airplane and dropped messages from air, telling the men to surrender. You see, the last Gentile nation that controlled the city of Jerusalem was England. The Muslims were so scared since they never saw an airplane before, that they thought that it was God telling them to surrender.

The second attempt was on June 7th, 1967, when King Heussein of Jordan wanted to build on where the Eastern gate lies. He was to tear down the gate in order to build on it. On June 5th, they brought the machinery to demolish the gate. Then came the 6 day war from June 5-10 1967. Jerusalem was in the hands of the Jews at this point, the demolition never happened, and the gate has stood untouched to this day in this current year.

Prophecy is tamper-proof and is occurring in full force. Whether which of many topics you choose, whether it be the constant fighting of the Palestinians with Israel, immorality, Politics, weather disasters, or what not, there are too many ways to see how the prophesies are so right on, that the contents of that "ancient book" is as interactive, animated, and is still working to this day. That, to me, is something that cannot be argued with.

I don't have time to analyze and respond to all of this before work this morning, but one thing that stands out is:

Originally posted by RWCTV
Actually in all honesty, if you do the research on Darwin, you will find that he was a theologian in his early life, yet he changed his tune. Are you saying that because the man was non-religious, than it must be fact?

You actually did seem to be saying that because Newton, a founder of science, believed in God, that that was some kind of evidence for your beliefs. At least that is how I interpreted what you said. If that is not why you talked about Newton, then what was your original point about him? It is preposterous, however, to imply that I tried to argue that evolution is correct because Darwin was an important religious figure who believed in it. There is nothing in what I wrote that in any way tries to convey such an idea, and to imply that there is is intellectually dishonest. I clearly was saying only that evolution is correct because there is evidence for it.

Originally posted by RWCTV
I will offer you the supreme evidence: Bible Prophecy
Not everything in the bible was correct. And those quotes you gave us, was not the scientific evidence we were asking for.

Originally posted by RWCTV
You see, the evidence in Christians reside in thinking not only through the brain, but through the heart and the brain, and your argument is strictly carnal and excludes any and all of the spiritual realm that me and many Christians see through experience.That statement sums up why there is no reason to bother discussing with you, Robert. No matter what anyone tells you, you'll dispute it with, "My heart tells me so". Your heart, according to you, is not only more knowlegebable than any non-Christian heart, but it has it's thumper on the pulse of what's right and wrong. See you in the next life Mr. God-fearing prophet. :wave:

Originally posted by M82A1
Not everything in the bible was correct. And those quotes you gave us, was not the scientific evidence we were asking for.

Of course it is. You wouldn't know because you not only don't believe in it, but you don't even read it.

I don't know what you're talking about with "quotes", but I would like you to enlighten me on certain versus that you believe are not "correct", if you can.

Originally posted by Kitt
That statement sums up why there is no reason to bother discussing with you, Robert. No matter what anyone tells you, you'll dispute it with, "My heart tells me so". Your heart, according to you, is not only more knowlegebable than any non-Christian heart, but it has it's thumper on the pulse of what's right and wrong. See you in the next life Mr. God-fearing prophet. :wave:

(LOL) Kitt, Kitt, Kitt,
I don't know about the above statement you wrote, but when you have the Holy Spirit living in your heart, then as you grow, things inside of Politics, people's behavior, and everything else become a lot more clearer, and also coincides with the same types of people and ways of life as those in the Bible.

I will give a couple of minor examples. One: Word Useage. How many times have we heard the word "sodomy" in the past few years. Sodomy is resided from the biblical days of Soddom and Gommorah. What about the word "Whore" that came from the root word "Whoremonger". How about "effeminate". More and more, I hear words like these when I go out in public, or converse with someone. It's kind of strange how some of these words haven't been as regular to our ears since the days past when they were all around us. But that is one minor thing.

I don't know what your background is Kitt, or where your views on things rooted out of, but if you saw and experienced many things the way I have, you would totally understand where I'm coming from.

Originally posted by RWCTV
Of course it is. You wouldn't know because you not only don't believe in it, but you don't even read it.
No, claims made in an ancient text are not scientific evidence or even logical evidence, they are simply claims. Claims are not evidence. Anyone can claim anything. Someone may believe it. That doesn't make it true.

The account given in the Bible might be correct or incorrect, that's why we want evidence. And we prefer any such evidence to be stated succinctly, not in the midst of five other subjects.

You always say that if we experienced what you do, we would believe more or less what you believe, but never enlighten us as to what you've experienced in the way of evidence of God's existence or the existence of an afterlife so we can judge whether it constitutes valid evidence.

Most often, when we ask for evidence, you respond with a further description of your beliefs, rather than evidence of their validity.

Originally posted by BrandonS
You actually did seem to be saying that because Newton, a founder of science, believed in God, that that was some kind of evidence for your beliefs.

I didn't say that at all. It is interpreted from what you were saying, that since Darwin became Anti-Christian, then his view is correct because his interpretation on how the Universe was created totally excluded God.

By bringing up Newton, I was trying to counterbalance your use of Darwin, with another scientist; the one who discovered gravity aside from being a theologian.

Originally posted by BrandonS
I clearly was saying only that evolution is correct because there is evidence for it.

You can come up with "evidence" about anything. People can make anything justifiable is the point I'm trying to make. People who try to make insurance scams create evidence by hiring people burn houses, barns, or whatever, and make "evidence" that the fire started a different way. Whether it be through "bad" electrical wiring, or what not.

Originally posted by RWCTV
You can come up with "evidence" about anything. People can make anything justifiable is the point I'm trying to make. People who try to make insurance scams create evidence by having people burn houses, barns, or whatever, and make "evidence" that the fire started a different way. Whether it be through "bad" electrical wiring, or what not.
I want to be positive I understand what you are saying. It sounds like you are saying that evidence is generally not valid as an investigative tool because someone may manufacture false evidence, and that you reject evidence as a concept. If this is what you are saying, my responce would be that no one can manufacture real evidence of a thing that is false. They can only manufacture evidence, which can temporarily confuse an investigation. The fact that someone can create invalid evidence for insurance scam purposes or things like that does not invalidate the desire to look at evidence to see if a thing is true or false. What you seem to be saying in essence is that science and the scientific method are fundamentally invalid, and I disagree with that.

Originally posted by BrandonS
No, claims made in an ancient text are not scientific evidence or even logical evidence, they are simply claims. Claims are not evidence. Anyone can claim anything. Someone may believe it. That doesn't make it true.

The account given in the Bible might be correct or incorrect, that's why we want evidence. And we prefer any such evidence to be stated succinctly, not in the midst of five other subjects.

You always say that if we experienced what you do, we would believe more or less what you believe, but never enlighten us as to what you've experienced in the way of evidence of God's existence or the existence of an afterlife so we can judge whether it constitutes valid evidence.

Before I get into this more, I need to ask you two questions.

1. Put yourself in this situation. You die physically, yet you are separated from your body. How would you react?

2. If a man promoted a peace contract with Israel and many nations, performed many miracles right in front of you for the world to see, declared himself as God, and came back to life, would you accept him?

Unlike you, I try to respond to the posts made to me, rather than ignoring them and just starting a new subject, therefore:

1. I would probably think, "Hey, there might be something to this afterlife idea."

2. It would depend on what evidence I saw that the miracles occurred and that the individual had come back from the dead. If this were shown to my satisfaction, I would believe that the person was probably supernatural in nature, but reserve judgement as to whether or not he was God.

Also, please view the last post on the previous page.

Originally posted by BrandonS
Unlike you, I try to respond to the posts made to me, rather than ignoring them and just starting a new subject, therefore:

1. I would probably think, "Hey, there might be something to this afterlife idea."

2. It would depend on what evidence I saw that the miracles occurred and that the individual had come back from the dead. If this were shown to my satisfaction, I would believe that the person was probably supernatural in nature, but reserve judgement as to whether or not he was God.

Also, please view the last post on the previous page.

I sincerely don't know what you're talking about in the first sentence. I have provided prophetic evidence, and there is tons more. The entire account of the Egyptians having the Jews as slaves is documented in the Holy Bible. In fact, the Bible was used as a history book before Madelyn Murray O'Hare came on the scene. Since her, two generations have been misled in all sorts of ways, and the goal of this Godless stuff, is to eliminate it completely. If someone teaches evolution, they will tell their kids, and they will tell their kids, then God will be completely taken out, and when the Christians are taken out completely (as described in the Bible), then all you will have is deceived people making a choice between a man who says he's God, or the testimonies of 144,000 Jews who will say that Jesus is God.

You don't believe me now because you have never seen such things occur in front of your very eyes. To you, such things only happen with special effects in cinema. Faith is the key, to tide us up for now. When you don't have faith, all you can rely on is what you can hear, touch, see, taste, and smell. You cannot go beyond, and are limited that boundary and that boundary alone.

Originally posted by RWCTV
I sincerely don't know what you're talking about in the first sentence. I have provided prophetic evidence, and there is tons more.
Evidence:
1 a : an outward sign : INDICATION b : something that furnishes proof : TESTIMONY; specifically : something legally submitted to a tribunal to ascertain the truth of a matter
2 : one who bears witness; especially : one who voluntarily confesses a crime and testifies for the prosecution against his accomplices
- in evidence 1 : to be seen : CONSPICUOUS <trim lawns … are everywhere in evidence —Amer. Guide Series: N.C.> 2 : as evidence

What you provided was not proof, but testimony. doesn't mean it's true.

Originally posted by RWCTV
...I have provided prophetic evidence, and there is tons more. The entire account of the Egyptians having the Jews as slaves is documented in the Holy Bible. In fact, the Bible was used as a history book before Madelyn Murray O'Hare came on the scene. Since her, two generations have been misled in all sorts of ways, and the goal of this Godless stuff, is to eliminate it completely. If someone teaches evolution, they will tell their kids, and they will tell their kids, then God will be completely taken out, and when the Christians are taken out completely (as described in the Bible), then all you will have is deceived people making a choice between a man who says he's God, or the testimonies of 144,000 Jews who will say that Jesus is God.

You don't believe me now because you have never seen such things occur in front of your very eyes. To you, such things only happen with special effects in cinema. Faith is the key, to tide us up for now. When you don't have faith, all you can rely on is what you can hear, touch, see, taste, and smell. You cannot go beyond, and are limited that boundary and that boundary alone.
You have not provided prophetic evidence. You have provided prophecy. Now I want evidence that the prophecy is correct. Don't give me more and more quotations from the Bible, give me evidence that indicates that it's true. That is all we have ever asked for. You insist on ignoring the actual question we ask and simply quoting the Bible further.

I don't care about the testimony of 144,000 Jews who say Jesus is God. Saying something is true because a large number or people believe it is utter nonsense. The fact that a lot of people believe something doesn't prove it's true and will never be evidence. I want evidence, not testimonials.

When you say I don't believe you now because I have never seen such things occur, you are partially correct. I also don't believe you because no matter how many times we ask you for evidence, you simply respond by elaborating on your beliefs rather than providing any evidence that what the Bible says about God and the universe is true. When you ask someone over and ovcer again to provide evidence of his beliefs, and what you get back is every argumentative technique in the world other than simply providing evidence, one has to believe that this is not a characteristic of someone who is promoting a correct theory.

By the way, since you have ignored my previous post completely, I will reproduce it next.

Originally posted by RWCTV
You can come up with "evidence" about anything. People can make anything justifiable is the point I'm trying to make. People who try to make insurance scams create evidence by having people burn houses, barns, or whatever, and make "evidence" that the fire started a different way. Whether it be through "bad" electrical wiring, or what not.
I want to be positive I understand what you are saying. It sounds like you are saying that evidence is generally not valid as an investigative tool because someone may manufacture false evidence, and that you reject evidence as a concept. If this is what you are saying, my response would be that no one can manufacture real evidence of a thing that is false. They can only manufacture evidence, which can temporarily confuse an investigation. The fact that someone can create invalid evidence for insurance scam purposes or things like that does not invalidate the desire to look at evidence to see if a thing is true or false. What you seem to be saying in essence is that science and the scientific method are fundamentally invalid, and I disagree with that.

Originally posted by BrandonS
You have not provided prophetic evidence. You have provided prophecy. Now I want evidence that the prophecy is correct. Don't give me more and more quotations from the Bible, give me evidence that indicates that it's true.

You wanted proof, and we are living in the days of another form of proof. Aside from the archeological, Jewish proof that is out there on Christ, Moses, it is out there. However, with Bible prophecy and how the world's actions fulfills it/ or the earliest signs that lead to the hardcore details, that is what we are surrounded with.

Proof from the Bible is something. You see, you do not read the Bible, so how could you say that there is no proof? Proof does not just come to you, you have to look for it. You also have to be careful in looking for it, so that you do not fall into a scam.

Now for me, It doesn’t matter who says the Bible isn’t so, just as long as I can prove that these current situations, predicted thousands of years ago, are in the Bible.

II Timothy 1:19 We have a sure word of Prophecy.

Now for the easy part, I have a question for you.
It has been shown that Noah’s Ark is in Mount Arrarat in Turkey. First of all if the Bible isn’t real, how did that huge boat get up there to begin with? Nobody has ever reached the ark up close, but it can be seen through airplane, and from a distance you can see the hull. With all of the ice storms that occur on that mountain, how could someone just plant the ark up there? I personally believe that God had it on the mountain to begin with, so that people would actually think. I also believe that the ice storms somehow preserve the ark to this day.

Now, for the other parts.

Israel:

Israel was a nation before. Daniel 1:1 says “In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem and besieged it.

The History documents (separate from the Bible) says that that had happened in 586 B.C.

The Bible states that the Jews will be brought into their own land in the end times.

Ezekiel 36:24
For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Israel and Jerusalem were both under the ruling of the Gentiles for thousands of years.

Then 2,534 years later, on May 14th, 1948 the prophecy was fulfilled. In fact in 1948, many prophecies were fulfilled. The emergence of the European Union (which is The Revived Roman Empire and the seventh, and final world empire described in the Bible.), The United Nations was formed, mass communications went through another breakthrough with a new medium called television, now available to the general public. You know, I listened to an episode of “My Favorite Husband” with Lucille Ball and they referred to them living in bad times. Anyways moving on, Israel became a nation and many Jews from all over the world came to Jerusalem to live in their own land. Remember, Israel it took 2,534 before that prophecy was fulfilled.

Next Topic, Jerusalem:
Here is where another prophetic point gets very interesting, the Jews capturing the ancient city of Jerusalem.

The Jews have heard the prophecies of the Bible for thousands of years now. They regained control of Israel since 586B.C. in May of 1948.

Now, they had to re-capture the city of Jerusalem, and Christ predicted that it will happen in the end times. He is saying, in fact that when the Jews take control of the city of Jerusalem, that Generation shall not pass from this earth until all things are fulfilled (Matthew 24:34).

The Jews finally captured Jerusalem from the six-day war (June 5-10th) of 1967.

Just Before Christ’s Return:

Jesus said in Matthew 24:37: But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the son of man be.

How was it in Noah’s day? Let’s go back thousands of years to Genesis.

Genesis 6:11
The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

I can go on, but isn’t corruption rampant these days? In recent history, we have seen many people get swindled out of their money through the Enron company. Let’s move to violence, for in this day and age, it’s the juice inside the meat. Terrorism is violence. Terrorism is worldwide, and it will never go away until Jesus Christ returns to this earth to stop one another from destroying his earth and destroying one another.

Even the United Nations has adopted this key Bible verse outside of their headquarters.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.


Let’s move on, shall we?

People’s behavior before Christ returns:

This one pertains to people who doubt the reality in it’s full force.

II Peter 3:3-4 ; Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking in after their own lusts, And saying, where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

How about the attitudes of people who are living in the end times?

II Timothy 3:1-5

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves (How many selfish people are there who only think about themselves, and do not show courtesy or forgiveness towards others?), covetous (How many people want to “get rich quick”? Many money making schemes are out there and are taking these people for a ride), boasters (How many people have you heard say how great they were? I hear teens boast all the time of how great they are), proud (How many people are out there who are too prideful of themselves?), blasphemers (How many times have you heard God’s name slammed in public, movies, and television? I am guilty myself of having done that), disobedient to parents (It’s funny that not too long after Israel became a nation Dr. Spock came out with a book that would brainwash parents into not properly disciplining children by spanking them. Now, we have a bunch of spoiled people who are fulfilling these verses just by not being properly disciplined. Dr. Spock renounced his teachings, when he saw what was out there, not too long before he died. Now there are too many people who do not respect people, property, and what not since that “educational” book was written. Then add that to Madelyn Murray O’Hare’s taking prayer out of schools, and you have a bunch of rampant monsters running around. They do not have a proper moral base. Some do not know right from wrong, and if they were taught right from wrong from their parents, then why adopt teachings from someone they don’t respect? Discipline also teaches respect), unthankful (How many times have you done something nice for someone, and they either spit all over you, or do not show any appreciation), Without natural affection (Homosexuality has been so mainstream within the past decade. Recently, in Legally Blonde 2, they are pushing it once again. A Senator has a gay dog, and he says that he’s proud of his dog and everyone cheers. Now, I know that that is a comedy, but how many times do they have to put it in? I know that corporate heads use homosexuality to pull in revenue to generate ratings), trucebreakers (How many times have we seen peace accords signed by countries, who only pull out of them later on? What about North Korea? They promised that they would not start a nuclear program. Jimmy Carter went over there and convinced Bill Clinton to provide them with funding to use it for generating a source of nuclear power. They lied: They started a nuclear weapons program), false accusers (How many times have people accused the President for Political gain?), incontinent (The dictionary words it as “lacking self-restraint, not being under control”. How many times have you seen people beat the living you-know-what out of someone, or hear someone say something so strong for something so little and so stupid? The Jerry Springer show capitalizes and makes money off of people like these), despisers of those that are good (President Bush has been attacked for being a Christian and a Conservative, I have been attacked by not participating in something that I think would get me into trouble, I can go on and on about this one), Traitors (John Walker Lindh, the American Taliban is a good example. The Blame America First crowd is certainly trying to hurt more than help this country), heady (Snotty, and full of themselves), highminded (Lots of people act like they are so much better than others because they may have good looks, a lot of money, cars mommy and daddy are buying for them, etc. That is one example anyway), lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; (From the days of the forefathers to today, you get a major contrast. Study the diary of George Washington for example. Today, we have too may dope addicts who would rather burn holes in their brain than listen or have anything to do with God. Also, add to the order a bunch of self absorbed sex addicts), Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: (My brother claims he’s a Christian, but when he goes out and sleeps around, God suddenly “disappears”, he acts like a pimp to his hoes, and he, like many teens today get into trouble. This “Christian” is such a follower when it comes to his friends, that he even has a Police record), from such turn away.

Matthew 24:10-12
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Offensive Behavior: Since recently, Political correctness has come up and tried too hard not to offend people, that people found new things to be offended of.

Betrayal and Hate: How many times in the domestic world does someone tell a secret to someone, only to have it blabbed to the one the secret was meant to be kept from? How about hate? I will pick on racism for one. How many people hate Arabs because of terrorism, how many blacks hate whites because they are told by so-called leaders that the “White man is bringing them down”? How many whites hate blacks because of the roots of the Civil war? Go down to the south. Many Southern Americans hate Northern “Yankees” because of the defeat they faced from us in freeing the slaves. How many whites hate blacks because a job was taken out from under them in the name of affirmative action? How many hate Jewish people because of what happened to Christ on the cross, or because they have had a voice in mainstreaming immorality through key positions in Hollywood? How many people hate Jews because the Jews kept the ever so up to date word of their Messiah alive for thousands of years?

Love of many shall wax cold: How many people do you see now who do not do anything for anyone else? Sure, I know we all have our own lives and cannot help every whiner that comes to call. But how many people show love to you in the General public?

Now, compare these times to the time of the early half of the 20th Century with examples like these: How about the fact that people could leave their houses without the doors being locked and not getting burglarized. Take the fact that people who were in need were brought home and taken care of.

Today: If you leave your doors unlocked, you are running a definite risk of having something stolen.

If you take someone home who is in need, (and we have seen at least two accounts in recent history) you may get a murderer who may kill you, abduct, or possibly kidnap your child.

Experiences from wicked things like these get to the Public, and the public is so cautious of the bad people, that they do not take a chance with the people who are really in need and who really are good people. Can you blame them? No wonder the Bible says “And because iniquity (wicked acts like the ones just mentioned) shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.” Now, this is described in the fullest force in the Seven years, after the peace contract is signed with Israel. History repeats itself, and they are playing now. But after each pattern replays, in more potency and boldness, we see what the Holy Spirit intended us to see when he had the Prophets write about such things.

The Bible (and Holy Spirit) + History + Politics + Personal Experience in bold areas = A 3-D perspective on the earth and where God’s creation is headed in it.

Natural diasasters:
Matthew 24:7-8
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes in divers places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows.

But why do Christians see these perilous times as a reminder of the hope that is promised to us? Why are many of us who understand so full of peace in our Spirit, yet frustrated for our nation and people who seem to pose a threat against it? Well to answer the first question, here’s your answer:

Luke 21:28

And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Luke 21:31

So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the Kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

To put it another way, Christ is about to come back and put a stop to people who are destroying this earth and destroying one another. He is about to correct the mistakes of the people who were misled and had powerful impacts on society. He is about to heal the world of it’s wounds and so forth. And to deny these things happening, and to deny the wisdom that the Bible supplies and ties in with today’s events, really will have problems making conclusions to things that may have such a simple answer. An answer that is waiting to be discovered in the Bible, a book that the Holy Spirit dwelt in the prophets to always show how history has already progressed from past prophecies, keep up to date by having recent current events buried in it (until the invention of the fast computer) every so many letters diagonal, across, and up and down, and through our perious times, provide a curiosity among people who want to know what is about to come upon them.

We are living the proof described in the Bible. If you really wanted to, you can see the world through a 3-D perspective if you really wholeheartedly looked for it, and abandoned a theory that is used to keep secularism in the Scientific community.

I believe in reincarnation. That when you die, you come back as something different. I believe that I was someone or something before I was in this human form. I could've been a 50s movie starlet or a beautiful flower. I believe that the soul lives on forever. You never really die. You just continue to exist in different forms.

Originally posted by RWCTV
You wanted proof, and we are living in the days of another form of proof. Aside from the archeological, Jewish proof that is out there on Christ, Moses, it is out there. However, with Bible prophecy and how the world's actions fulfills it/ or the earliest signs that lead to the hardcore details, that is what we are surrounded with.

Proof from the Bible is something. You see, you do not read the Bible, so how could you say that there is no proof? Proof does not just come to you, you have to look for it. You also have to be careful in looking for it, so that you do not fall into a scam.

Now for me, It doesn’t matter who says the Bible isn’t so, just as long as I can prove that these current situations, predicted thousands of years ago, are in the Bible.

II Timothy 1:19 We have a sure word of Prophecy.

Now for the easy part, I have a question for you.
It has been shown that Noah’s Ark is in Mount Arrarat in Turkey. First of all if the Bible isn’t real, how did that huge boat get up there to begin with? Nobody has ever reached the ark up close, but it can be seen through airplane, and from a distance you can see the hull. With all of the ice storms that occur on that mountain, how could someone just plant the ark up there? I personally believe that God had it on the mountain to begin with, so that people would actually think. I also believe that the ice storms somehow preserve the ark to this day.

Now, for the other parts.

Israel:

Israel was a nation before. Daniel 1:1 says “In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon unto Jerusalem and besieged it.

The History documents (separate from the Bible) says that that had happened in 586 B.C.

The Bible states that the Jews will be brought into their own land in the end times.

Ezekiel 36:24
For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Israel and Jerusalem were both under the ruling of the Gentiles for thousands of years.

Then 2,534 years later, on May 14th, 1948 the prophecy was fulfilled. In fact in 1948, many prophecies were fulfilled. The emergence of the European Union (which is The Revived Roman Empire and the seventh, and final world empire described in the Bible.), The United Nations was formed, mass communications went through another breakthrough with a new medium called television, now available to the general public. You know, I listened to an episode of “My Favorite Husband” with Lucille Ball and they referred to them living in bad times. Anyways moving on, Israel became a nation and many Jews from all over the world came to Jerusalem to live in their own land. Remember, Israel it took 2,534 before that prophecy was fulfilled.

Next Topic, Jerusalem:
Here is where another prophetic point gets very interesting, the Jews capturing the ancient city of Jerusalem.

The Jews have heard the prophecies of the Bible for thousands of years now. They regained control of Israel since 586B.C. in May of 1948.

Now, they had to re-capture the city of Jerusalem, and Christ predicted that it will happen in the end times. He is saying, in fact that when the Jews take control of the city of Jerusalem, that Generation shall not pass from this earth until all things are fulfilled (Matthew 24:34).

The Jews finally captured Jerusalem from the six-day war (June 5-10th) of 1967.

Just Before Christ’s Return:

Jesus said in Matthew 24:37: But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the son of man be.

How was it in Noah’s day? Let’s go back thousands of years to Genesis.

Genesis 6:11
The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

I can go on, but isn’t corruption rampant these days? In recent history, we have seen many people get swindled out of their money through the Enron company. Let’s move to violence, for in this day and age, it’s the juice inside the meat. Terrorism is violence. Terrorism is worldwide, and it will never go away until Jesus Christ returns to this earth to stop one another from destroying his earth and destroying one another.

Even the United Nations has adopted this key Bible verse outside of their headquarters.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.


Let’s move on, shall we?

People’s behavior before Christ returns:

This one pertains to people who doubt the reality in it’s full force.

II Peter 3:3-4 ; Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking in after their own lusts, And saying, where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

How about the attitudes of people who are living in the end times?

II Timothy 3:1-5

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves (How many selfish people are there who only think about themselves, and do not show courtesy or forgiveness towards others?), covetous (How many people want to “get rich quick”? Many money making schemes are out there and are taking these people for a ride), boasters (How many people have you heard say how great they were? I hear teens boast all the time of how great they are), proud (How many people are out there who are too prideful of themselves?), blasphemers (How many times have you heard God’s name slammed in public, movies, and television? I am guilty myself of having done that), disobedient to parents (It’s funny that not too long after Israel became a nation Dr. Spock came out with a book that would brainwash parents into not properly disciplining children by spanking them. Now, we have a bunch of spoiled people who are fulfilling these verses just by not being properly disciplined. Dr. Spock renounced his teachings, when he saw what was out there, not too long before he died. Now there are too many people who do not respect people, property, and what not since that “educational” book was written. Then add that to Madelyn Murray O’Hare’s taking prayer out of schools, and you have a bunch of rampant monsters running around. They do not have a proper moral base. Some do not know right from wrong, and if they were taught right from wrong from their parents, then why adopt teachings from someone they don’t respect? Discipline also teaches respect), unthankful (How many times have you done something nice for someone, and they either spit all over you, or do not show any appreciation), Without natural affection (Homosexuality has been so mainstream within the past decade. Recently, in Legally Blonde 2, they are pushing it once again. A Senator has a gay dog, and he says that he’s proud of his dog and everyone cheers. Now, I know that that is a comedy, but how many times do they have to put it in? I know that corporate heads use homosexuality to pull in revenue to generate ratings), trucebreakers (How many times have we seen peace accords signed by countries, who only pull out of them later on? What about North Korea? They promised that they would not start a nuclear program. Jimmy Carter went over there and convinced Bill Clinton to provide them with funding to use it for generating a source of nuclear power. They lied: They started a nuclear weapons program), false accusers (How many times have people accused the President for Political gain?), incontinent (The dictionary words it as “lacking self-restraint, not being under control”. How many times have you seen people beat the living you-know-what out of someone, or hear someone say something so strong for something so little and so stupid? The Jerry Springer show capitalizes and makes money off of people like these), despisers of those that are good (President Bush has been attacked for being a Christian and a Conservative, I have been attacked by not participating in something that I think would get me into trouble, I can go on and on about this one), Traitors (John Walker Lindh, the American Taliban is a good example. The Blame America First crowd is certainly trying to hurt more than help this country), heady (Snotty, and full of themselves), highminded (Lots of people act like they are so much better than others because they may have good looks, a lot of money, cars mommy and daddy are buying for them, etc. That is one example anyway), lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; (From the days of the forefathers to today, you get a major contrast. Study the diary of George Washington for example. Today, we have too may dope addicts who would rather burn holes in their brain than listen or have anything to do with God. Also, add to the order a bunch of self absorbed sex addicts), Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: (My brother claims he’s a Christian, but when he goes out and sleeps around, God suddenly “disappears”, he acts like a pimp to his hoes, and he, like many teens today get into trouble. This “Christian” is such a follower when it comes to his friends, that he even has a Police record), from such turn away.

Matthew 24:10-12
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Offensive Behavior: Since recently, Political correctness has come up and tried too hard not to offend people, that people found new things to be offended of.

Betrayal and Hate: How many times in the domestic world does someone tell a secret to someone, only to have it blabbed to the one the secret was meant to be kept from? How about hate? I will pick on racism for one. How many people hate Arabs because of terrorism, how many blacks hate whites because they are told by so-called leaders that the “White man is bringing them down”? How many whites hate blacks because of the roots of the Civil war? Go down to the south. Many Southern Americans hate Northern “Yankees” because of the defeat they faced from us in freeing the slaves. How many whites hate blacks because a job was taken out from under them in the name of affirmative action? How many hate Jewish people because of what happened to Christ on the cross, or because they have had a voice in mainstreaming immorality through key positions in Hollywood? How many people hate Jews because the Jews kept the ever so up to date word of their Messiah alive for thousands of years?

Love of many shall wax cold: How many people do you see now who do not do anything for anyone else? Sure, I know we all have our own lives and cannot help every whiner that comes to call. But how many people show love to you in the General public?

Now, compare these times to the time of the early half of the 20th Century with examples like these: How about the fact that people could leave their houses without the doors being locked and not getting burglarized. Take the fact that people who were in need were brought home and taken care of.

Today: If you leave your doors unlocked, you are running a definite risk of having something stolen.

If you take someone home who is in need, (and we have seen at least two accounts in recent history) you may get a murderer who may kill you, abduct, or possibly kidnap your child.

Experiences from wicked things like these get to the Public, and the public is so cautious of the bad people, that they do not take a chance with the people who are really in need and who really are good people. Can you blame them? No wonder the Bible says “And because iniquity (wicked acts like the ones just mentioned) shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.” Now, this is described in the fullest force in the Seven years, after the peace contract is signed with Israel. History repeats itself, and they are playing now. But after each pattern replays, in more potency and boldness, we see what the Holy Spirit intended us to see when he had the Prophets write about such things.

The Bible (and Holy Spirit) + History + Politics + Personal Experience in bold areas = A 3-D perspective on the earth and where God’s creation is headed in it.

Natural diasasters:
Matthew 24:7-8
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes in divers places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows.

But why do Christians see these perilous times as a reminder of the hope that is promised to us? Why are many of us who understand so full of peace in our Spirit, yet frustrated for our nation and people who seem to pose a threat against it? Well to answer the first question, here’s your answer:

Luke 21:28

And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Luke 21:31

So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the Kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

To put it another way, Christ is about to come back and put a stop to people who are destroying this earth and destroying one another. He is about to correct the mistakes of the people who were misled and had powerful impacts on society. He is about to heal the world of it’s wounds and so forth. And to deny these things happening, and to deny the wisdom that the Bible supplies and ties in with today’s events, really will have problems making conclusions to things that may have such a simple answer. An answer that is waiting to be discovered in the Bible, a book that the Holy Spirit dwelt in the prophets to always show how history has already progressed from past prophecies, keep up to date by having recent current events buried in it (until the invention of the fast computer) every so many letters diagonal, across, and up and down, and through our perious times, provide a curiosity among people who want to know what is about to come upon them.

We are living the proof described in the Bible. If you really wanted to, you can see the world through a 3-D perspective if you really wholeheartedly looked for it, and abandoned a theory that is used to keep secularism in the Scientific community.
that is a very long post

Originally posted by RWCTV
You wanted proof, and we are living in the days of another form of proof....
This is long and I am busy preparing for a business trip, so I will take a little while to respond.

I'm amazed that for all this time, the Book of Revelation was basically a warning to future generations about the consequences of not accepting Bush and the NeoCons. No wonder he had to turn tyrant on us.

Originally posted by Captain ABlairica
I'm amazed that for all this time, the Book of Revelation was basically a warning to future generations about the consequences of not accepting Bush and the NeoCons. No wonder he had to turn tyrant on us.
Who is saying that it is? I'd like to believe that you wouldn't just put words in our mouths to manufacture an easily defeated argument.

Originally posted by BrandonS
Who is saying that it is? I'd like to believe that you wouldn't just put words in our mouths to manufacture an easily defeated argument.

I'm saying that's what Robert Case seems to make it. OF COURSE I AM BEING IRONIC, PEOPLE.

:rolleyes:

*stands up and applauds* :clap: :clap: :clap:

That post couldn't have explained it any better. You definately know your Bible and how to show its truths!

Okay, I'm only looking at part of the post. I'm reading it a little more to see how the problems of today reflect what goes on in the Book of Revelation and other End Times scripture.

Ok, that did answer a few questions. But you seem to be relying a lot on prophets and predictions:

Definition of Prophecy:

Main Entry: proph·e·cy
Variant(s): also proph.e.sy /'prä-f&-sE/
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural proph·e·cies also proph·e·sies
Etymology: Middle English prophecie, from Old French, from Late Latin prophetia, from Greek prophEteia, from prophEtEs prophet
Date: 13th century
1 : an inspired utterance of a prophet
2 : the function or vocation of a prophet; specifically : the inspired declaration of divine will and purpose
3 : a prediction of something to come

A PREDICTION.

If I were to say, lets see, that sometime in the distant future, that two continents would collide... I would be right, because it has happened in the past, and WILL happen again.

And you also seem to talk a lot about Jesus returning to earth to destroy it; Scientists have already proven that the earth WILL end, but it will be at least 5 million years from now. If you are wondering how, The earth will go more and more out of orbit and ultimately slam into the sun (Actually the earth will disintegrate even before it reaches the sun).

If you take every prophet from the beginning, of course you are going to see things that have happened, it's inevitable.

This was said by Nostradamus (See if you can tell who he is talking about):

From the deepest part of Western Europe
A young child will be born to poor people
Who will by his speech seduce a great multitude,
His reputation will increase in the Kingdom of the East"
(Century 3, Quatrain 35)

Beasts ferocious with hunger will cross the rivers,
The greater part of the battlefield will be against Hister.
Into a cage of iron will the great one be drawn,
When the child of Germany observes nothing.
(Century 2, Quatrain 24)

In the year very not far from Venus,
The two greatest ones of Asia and of Africa:
They are said to have come from the Rhine and from
Hister Cries, tears at Malta and the Ligurian sea-coast.
(Century 4, Quatrain 68)

Liberty will not be regained,
It will be occupied by a black, proud, villainous and unjust man:
When the matter of the Pontiff is opened,
The republic of Venice will be vexed by Hister.
(Century 5, Quatrain 29)

The shocking and infamous armed one will fear the great furnace,
First the chosen one, the captives not returning
The world's lowest crime, the Angry Female Irale - Israel - not at ease,
Barb, Hister, Malta, and the Empty One does not return.

Hitler is referred to as Hister - not only be name but by birthplace.
Hister is the Latin for the river Danube on whose shores Hitler was born.
The first quatrain provide general background - his parents were poor
- his power as an orator needs no description here - and of course Hitler
had a catastrophic influence over Japan, the Kingdom of the East.

Does that make him a Prophet from God? NO! it just makes him a hermit with WAY too much time on his hands!

Another quote from Nostradamus:

The year 1999 seven month,
From the sky will come a great King of terror:
To bring back to life the great King of Angolmois, (the Mongols),
Before after Mars to reign by good luck.

I could connect that with many events, even the 9/11 attacks. it still means nothing.

At forty-five degrees, the sky will burn,
Fire approaches the great new city,
Immediately a huge, scattered flame leaps up
When they want to have verification from the Norman

Yet another one that can be connected with the 9/11 attacks. It can also refer to a B-52 dropping a Nuke on Moscow, it all depends on how YOU interpret it.

Originally posted by M82A1
Scientists have already proven that the earth WILL end, but it will be at least 5 million years from now. If you are wondering how, The earth will go more and more out of orbit and ultimately slam into the sun (Actually the earth will disintegrate even before it reaches the sun).

It's o/t, but I'm not sure about this. Do you have a reference for it? There's a lot of gravity and inertia keeping the earth in it's orbit. I thought the Earth would be destroyed in billions of years when the sun becomes a red giant.

Originally posted by BrandonS
It's o/t, but I'm not sure about this. Do you have a reference for it? There's a lot of gravity and inertia keeping the earth in it's orbit. I thought the Earth would be destroyed in billions of years when the sun becomes a red giant.
That's what I meant, 5 billion years, sorry about the typo. I saw an entire special about it on the Science Channel.

well actually...
we get shoved in a box and buried in teh ground....
but otha then that i dont know

Originally posted by Jo Polniaczek033
well actually...
we get shoved in a box and buried in teh ground....
but otha then that i dont know
More intelligent than most of the answers in this thread.

I don't even wanna think about death cause it sucks. I think being born into this world & then u die sucks. I know we all can't live forever & i wouldn't wanna live to be real old like in my 60's & 70's cause u can't do the things u used to do when u were younger. The closest experience i had with death was when my grandmother died & i was very close to my grandmother. She died 3 yrs ago & she was 75. She had a serious drinking problem though & she was overweight. The night she died i was with her which hurt me. She died right in front of me & she died of a heart attack sitting on the toilet. The thing that shocked me was that i didn't even cry at her funeral & i really wanted to. I know i would cry if my mother died cause i really love my mother. She's my best friend. I really hate to see people die at a young age like 2Pac & Biggie. Both of those guys were very good rappers & the way they died didn't make any sense. They had beef with each other over some stupid reasons & i still believe Suge Knight had them killed cause he's a shady dude. I don't believe in that heaven & hell crap. I agree with what the guy said above me that we all get buried in a casket & the ants & maggots eat our flesh & we turn into skeletons. How can we tell when we're dead if we're in heaven or hell anyway? It's not like we're gonna be able to feel it LOL. I wish we all could come back from the dead & live life over again.

Originally posted by Jo Polniaczek033
well actually...
we get shoved in a box and buried in teh ground....
but otha then that i dont know

im not

Originally posted by Jo Polniaczek033
well actually...
we get shoved in a box and buried in teh ground....
but otha then that i dont know

It's like the question that was asked some time ago:

What would Elvis be doing if he were alive now?

Clawing furiously at the top of his coffin, most likely.


:lol:

Originally posted by M82A1
Scientists have already proven that the earth WILL end, but it will be at least 5 million years from now. If you are wondering how, The earth will go more and more out of orbit and ultimately slam into the sun (Actually the earth will disintegrate even before it reaches the sun).


That's really interesting. I wish I had seen that program myself. I never have once heard any other explanation for the earth's end, execpt for it being destroyed once the sun becomes a red giant, like BrandonS said.

Originally posted by M82A1
Ok, that did answer a few questions. But you seem to be relying a lot on prophets and predictions:

Definition of Prophecy:

2 : the function or vocation of a prophet; specifically : the inspired declaration of divine will and purpose


And you also seem to talk a lot about Jesus returning to earth to destroy it; Scientists have already proven that the earth WILL end, but it will be at least 5 million years from now. If you are wondering how, The earth will go more and more out of orbit and ultimately slam into the sun (Actually the earth will disintegrate even before it reaches the sun).

If you take every prophet from the beginning, of course you are going to see things that have happened, it's inevitable.

This was said by Nostradamus.....

Well one thing about the Bible is that it has never been proven wrong.

As for Jesus returning to earth, he will not come to destroy it, but to stop people from destroying it and one another.

Now in th Science World Steven Hawking has come out and talked about the end of the world happening within the next 25 - 50 years. Now, according to scripture, the world is never going to end. The earth, in charge of people will end, but Christ will take on what men failed to do.

On Nostradamus, I don't know what to believe on his predictions because it turned out that people made up prophesies in his name to attempt to discredit the Bible. The person who told me that was actually an atheist I was talking to, who was strangely interested in what I had to say on the subject.

But for Bible Prophecy, these men stood in the times that we live in today. When they had their "visions" or dreams, God revealed to them what we live in today, or what we will live in tomorrow. Either way, the signs are currently existing. As these people practically stood in these times, they had to describe what they saw with the resources that existed at that time. Like in Isaiah, where they talk about "strange birds with windows" (Airplanes), Horseless carriages (cars with lights) and so on and so on.

When you research the stuff for yourself, and you open your mind to learn it, you really come out with the answers people have been trying to look for for too many years.

One more thing is that the Bible issues a bunch of warnings. If the Bible is ignored, then how will people know what to watch out for? Cults, false prophets, and much more are all things that are warned about, but who exactly is rushing to find the answers? I think that is one of the reasons why people will keep getting easier and easier to deceive. It's really kind of freaky when you think about it, and then some.

Originally posted by RWCTV
When you research the stuff for yourself, and you open your mind to learn it, you really come out with the answers people have been trying to look for for too many years.
So you want me to look at the bible, when you, won't even take the time to even Consider evolution (That's a bit hypocritical)? I have looked at the bible, I was a Christian until I was 15, Then I opened my mind to evolution, and IMO, it has more answers than the bible ever will. I will never believe in God again, not even in 4.6 Billion years.

WooHoo! my 400th post :typing: :dance: :woohoo:

Originally posted by M82A1
So you want me to look at the bible, when you, won't even take the time to even Consider evolution (That's a bit hypocritical)?

Evolution: In my experience, I have been to both private and public schools. I have been taught about creation through God. In the public schools, I was taught the theory of evolution.

When being taught evolution, it made no sense to me whatsoever. My mind could not grasp it even if it wanted to, because there are so many more answers that made more sense coming from the Bible.

Originally posted by M82A1
I have looked at the bible, I was a Christian until I was 15, Then I opened my mind to evolution, and IMO, it has more answers than the bible ever will. I will never believe in God again, not even in 4.6 Billion years.

You are telling me that you "were" a Christian. If you had actually and sincerely prayed the sinner's prayer to Christ himself and meant it, then you are still a Christian. If you did not, you never were a Christian to begin with. Being a Christian isn't being forced to go to church with mom and dad. In that scenerio, most kids don't understand or pay attention to what the pastor is saying. I know, I was one of them.

Now, you said "I have looked at the bible, I was a Christian until I was 15. I will never believe in God again, not even in 4.6 Billion years.

A verse popped in to my mind on that statement and it sums it up perfectly.

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

I have stated that I am a Christian. I am a true Christian. I grew up in a Christian home, yet I rebelled and went my own way for a little while. Not too long after, I would come back to the treasure "on my own" and without the influence of my parents. My mind coming up with questions, God's feeding me answers, My going to search for answers, personal experiences that were helped by faith, and just pure faith, not only strengthened me as a person, but also provided me with wisdom and knowledge that I know for sure I wouldn't have if I didn't have faith in Christ. Also add to the fact that since we live in tough times, it gives us Christians a sense of security, only to the sense that Jesus talked about such times (as mentioned in my long post) before he returns.

Now, there is one thing to look at a Bible. I always "look" and find a dusty one on someone's shelf. When you look for answers, or ask someone who may provide a unique insight on the matter, you should persue it, so that you can grow wiser and spiritually mature.

Now a days, it is easy to be brainwashed. I went to a business seminar and it was pure brainwash. I figured out questions that the man who was trying to recruit me, couldn't answer. He got nervous, kept up with the politeness and stuck to the script. Unfortunately, at first it sounded legitimate and it seemed rock solid. Then by doing research and considering the details, it turned out that it was rock solid, but rock solid for them in the sense where they would make more money off of you (in the name of "investing your money in the company") than you would ever make from their company legitimately.

To wrap it up in a nutshell: It was a scheme to take your mind off the truth, and accept what sounds easier to the carnal mind.

I think when you die you go in something called The After Life. My Social Studies teacher told me and the other students in my class this. But I don't exately know if it's true.

u rott in a box underground, or are a pile of ashes in a cup

Here is a little mystery you can ponder for a while: My Mom filed for bankruptcy last year, and just recently lost her job two months ago, we have less that $50 in the bank, but she prays to God EVERY night to help her out. In a nutshell, My whole family has lived in poverty there whole lives, and God hasn't helped us yet.

It reminds me of a saying: "If you give a man a fish, and he can eat for a day. But if you give a man a religion, he will starve to death praying for fish."

God was created because man needed two things: A scapegoat, and hope.

Originally posted by M82A1
Here is a little mystery you can ponder for a while: My Mom filed for bankruptcy last year, and just recently lost her job two months ago, we have less that $50 in the bank, but she prays to God EVERY night to help her out. In a nutshell, My whole family has lived in poverty there whole lives, and God hasn't helped us yet.

It reminds me of a saying: "If you give a man a fish, and he can eat for a day. But if you give a man a religion, he will starve to death praying for fish."

God was created because man needed two things: A scapegoat, and hope.

To me, your lack of faith may possibly have something to do with it. You blaspheme God, reject him, and even his existance, and expect everything to be handed to you on a silver platter.

God will build the foundation, but you have to build the house.
By that, I mean that he will provide, but you also have to do your part. Think about this. Do you have a roof over your head? You obviously are fortunate enough to have the internet, or you and I would not be having this conversation.

I am not rich, or near being rich myself. I work for money, and yet I have to do my part to get out on my own.

Question: Why did your mom file for bankruptcy?

I will tell you one thing, and you can take this to the bank:
When you do not have any faith, and get caught in the secularist agenda (with relativism), then you are literally sending the message that you can make it on your own without God. It is a form of selfishness that many (even I at times) am guilty of. The statement you made about God being created is simply an ignorant statement.

How can you expect any intervention fron God when you are ignorant of the genuine hope biblical truth reveals and go about your life as though there is no God?

I don't know how strong your mother's faith is, but faith works.

My faith in people cause me to be cautious. I am not a humanist. My faith in Christ, which fills a genuine void, balances me out and helps me understand people and culture as if I am looking on an ant farm. The same can go for you too, if you would look for the truth that society wants you to stay away from. People will let you down all the time, but Christ will lift you back up if you have the faith and allow him to.

I don't know if I buy all that talk about "blasphemy" just because M8 has problems believing in God. Doesn't God understand our frustrations? I don't know how his mother approaches faith, if it's kind of a "wishing well" kind of faith with "prayers" made in "Please-Lord-let-me-win-the-lotto" kind of desperation, or if it's actually a little bit more reasoned and objective about why problems happen to good people who believe in God. Problems happen and normal Christians can take it as a learning experience and learn to channel that into a positive, productive action.

I don't think M8 is "blaspheming". Gosh, what a 17th century kind of word...:rolleyes: It's like, lead the witch to the nearest ducking pool.

Originally posted by RWCTV
To me, your lack of faith may possibly have something to do with it. You blaspheme God, reject him, and even his existance, and expect everything to be handed to you on a silver platter.

God will build the foundation, but you have to build the house.
By that, I mean that he will provide, but you also have to do your part. Think about this. Do you have a roof over your head? You obviously are fortunate enough to have the internet, or you and I would not be having this conversation.

I am not rich, or near being rich myself. I work for money, and yet I have to do my part to get out on my own.

Question: Why did your mom file for bankruptcy?

I will tell you one thing, and you can take this to the bank:
When you do not have any faith, and get caught in the secularist agenda (with relativism), then you are literally sending the message that you can make it on your own without God. It is a form of selfishness that many (even I at times) am guilty of. The statement you made about God being created is simply an ignorant statement.

How can you expect any intervention fron God when you are ignorant of the genuine hope biblical truth reveals and go about your life as though there is no God?

I don't know how strong your mother's faith is, but faith works.

My faith in people cause me to be cautious. I am not a humanist. My faith in Christ, which fills a genuine void, balances me out and helps me understand people and culture as if I am looking on an ant farm. The same can go for you too, if you would look for the truth that society wants you to stay away from. People will let you down all the time, but Christ will lift you back up if you have the faith and allow him to.
I thought god was supposed to look after and Care for ALL of his childeren?!

Question: Why did your mom file for bankruptcy?
Uh... Because we had BILLS, and couldn't Pay them!

You obviously are fortunate enough to have the internet, or you and I would not be having this conversation.
Actually, She is on the verge of closing our AOL account.

Originally posted by Captain ABlairica
I don't know if I buy all that talk about "blasphemy" just because M8 has problems believing in God. Doesn't God understand our frustrations? I don't know how his mother approaches faith, if it's kind of a "wishing well" kind of faith with "prayers" made in "Please-Lord-let-me-win-the-lotto" kind of desperation, or if it's actually a little bit more reasoned and objective about why problems happen to good people who believe in God. Problems happen and normal Christians can take it as a learning experience and learn to channel that into a positive, productive action.

I don't think M8 is "blaspheming". Gosh, what a 17th century kind of word...:rolleyes: It's like, lead the witch to the nearest ducking pool.
Are you.......... Dare I say it........... Actually........ Perhaps......... In some way.................... Defending Me!?!?!?! :faint: :bonk: :lol:

Originally posted by M82A1
Are you.......... Dare I say it........... Actually........ Perhaps......... Defending Me!?!?!?! :faint: :bonk: :lol:

Ya shure, Ya Betcha!!:D

(That's the caption on Ballard Bitter, brewed here in Washington, kinda Swedish-American expression)

Yeah, I understand more about people's frustrations about believing in God (or NOT believing). I have never been in a point in my life where I DIDN'T believe in him, but there were many times I was frustrated and bitter as hell about being a Christian, times when I felt as if I wasn't one because of problems that just overwhelmed me--above all, feeling let down by other Christians.

Funny, I was at Ozzfest this weekend, and I saw this one shirt they were selling that said, "Jesus is coming back soon. But don't worry, we'll nail him AGAIN!!":eek: I was feeling, you know, I think Jesus would identify more with kids rocking out at a metal concert than with sitting in a church all day. I'm not sure he supports all the chicanery that goes on in his name.

Originally posted by M82A1
I thought god was supposed to look after and Care for ALL of his childeren!

But what can God do for you if you don't believe in him? God cares for his children yet gives them free will. If no one seeks God, how can they find him? If they are shut off spiritually, then how can the carnal mind seek the things that everyone takes for granted?

If you have a roof over your head, clothes on your back, and food to eat, then something is being provided to you.

Philippians 4:13
I can do ALL THINGS through Christ which strenghtheneth me.

If you really look for what you need, and you do your part, with your faith, you can accomplish anything.

I have some background in philosophy, but am not religious. This is a great topic! I have read that there is agreement from experts in religion, philosophy, spritual. (ect.) that the mind and body are two seperate states. The sole of a person leaves the body and where you believe it goes depends on your views on a topic like this (and there are 100's)

I do think that when people talk about houses being haunted that the evidence shows that in an authentic case. (and many are hoaxes) that a persons' soul or spirit may return to a home and not want to leave. If the person when alive had good experiences in the home than good experiences will most likely happen to anyone who would inhabit the home. If the person when alive had bad experiences in the home, they can haunt the place and do bad things to the home's new inhabitants.

But if the person never had a good or bad affiliation to a home, an object, or a person, I don't think that their spirit or soul would stay around. (No need to) It would just leave shortly after the time the physical elements of the body turned off. (This is probably true with 98% of all people.)

In most cases, (except for your soul wanting to stick around to a place or object you were attatched to in maybe 2% of instances.) when your gone...your gone. Your brain and central nervous system turns off. But I think before you die, you would have a sped up recorder of events that happend in your life going by really fast. Like your life on a VCR or DVD going at fast forward.) Actually ALL events in our life have been recorded in our mind throughout or life. (This is proven through research) but we only remember less than about 5% of the "total package" of experiences. So I think that what you have is "rapid dreaming" This is when some people believe a spiritual thing is happening to them. But I think it is just the mind going through the most memorable events before it shuts off. The amount of time that this happens. ("Rapid fast forward life experiences) concerning duration before death is unknown. But I would guess that it is probably no more than 10 minutes in real time.

After that, I think that what death is is just falling asleep and you don't wake up. You can't feel anything, you can't dream, you system just shuts off.

Jack

Originally posted by Jack1000
Your brain and central nervous system turns off. But I think before you die, you would have a sped up recorder of events that happend in your life going by really fast.

After that, I think that what death is is just falling asleep and you don't wake up. You can't feel anything, you can't dream, you system just shuts off.

In most cases, (except for your soul wanting to stick around to a place or object you were attatched to in maybe 2% of instances.) when your gone...your gone.

There are so many people who disagree with that limited idea, and they are people who have actually died at least once in their life.

1. There is a man who got into a car accident. A doctor dropped one of his tools and was looking all over for it. The man who was on the table, saw the tool that the doctor dropped as he was out of his body. The Doctor called for another of the same tool. When the man was revived, he told the doctor where he saw the tool out of his body. The Doctor looked where the patient had told him to look, and there it was. The Doctor was freaked out. The rush of the reality that people are not accustomed to hit him hard.
2. My friend Mary. Believe it or not, I have a friend who has had one hell of a story to tell. To wrap it up in a nutshell, she had a rare disease. The Doctors gave her the wrong medicine, which would partially paralyze her left hand. She ran an incredible fever and the doctors told her mother that she has so long to live. In fact, she was on life support. When it came down to what was considered the end, her mother was forced with the decision on whether or not the plug should be pulled. Mary’s mother decided to pull the plug. Mary died. As she came out of her body, she was told that it wasn’t her time. After she was pronounced legally dead, her vital signs returned, and she made a miraculous recovery.
3. Rexella Van Impe, wife of TV Prophecy preacher Jack Van Impe made a video entitled “Heaven”. In the video, she describes a car accident that her and her husband got into. She died, and was embraced by her husband. At the time, Jack recalled how they were about to enter into the ministry of evangelizing and interpreting Bible Prophecy. Rexella recalled watching her huisband embrace her body, cry, and pray that God would bring her back to help her with the ministry. Rexella was appointed to return and they have spreading the gospel together for decades, and remain to do so at this point in time.
4. Maurice Rawlings, a doctor who heard about Christ, yet did not believe in the spirit realm, recalled a patient in which the patient was caught between two worlds. The patient he recalled, seemed to be caught between earth and hell. As the man lay half dead, Maurice was massaging his heart. The man, who was in pain, begged Maurice not to stop massaging his heart. He told him that he was in a place of fire and that he didn’t want to die. Maurice, who kept massaging the man’s heart recalled the sinner’s prayer that he had heard countless times, yet didn’t believe in it. He told the patient what to say. The patient was still half way between hell and earth. The man, who was in a panic and between both worlds, asked Christ to save him. He was not between hell and earth anymore, within an instant. The man saw a peace. He was then revived, and a shocked Maurice, who did not necessarily believe in heaven and hell, became a believer within that time frame. After his half dead patient revived, Maurice asked Christ into his life. He then made television appearances to “spread the word” on what he saw, from first hand experience.


Another thing that you stated, was the thing about ghosts lurking around, as part of the brain finishing it’s mission. If that was true, in a secular standpoint, how can a physical brain, while being eaten by worms under the ground, still be “awake” until that person completes their mission? If they were walking around, then they would have to have a spirit body to walk around in. It could not just be a floating invisible brain with eyes, as it seems you are saying.

Philosphy has many different definitions.
I think your definition of philosophy lies within a search for a general understanding of values and reality by chiefly speculative rather than observational means, as well as a theory underlying or regarding a sphere of activity or thought.

The definition of the same exact word that I am coming from is the sciences and liberal arts exclusive of medicine, law, and theology. Theology is a study of religious faith practice, and experience; the study of God and of God’s relation to the world.

When you mix God with medicine, law, and the science of the human body, studied by the right people, then there is no stopping the further of research.

For example: I started getting heavily interested in Bible Prophecy. After getting deep into it, my interest towards Politics spun-off from that. When you mix the two together, it not only makes you wiser as a person, but things make sense so much in a 3-D type of perspective. You are also not limited to observing JUST the physical realm, but the Spiritual realm, and how the spiritual realm influences the Physical realm.