I saw this guy interviewed on CNN last Friday, plugging his new book, "Black Dahlia Avenger." There seemed to be more plausability than I would expect from a case more than 55 years old, but the newspaper reviews and analysis are extremely skeptical, some to the point of ridicule.

Here's one link:
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/dahlia/7.html?sect=7

To summarize, retired LAPD cop Steve Hodel claims in the book that his late father Dr. George Hodel, an accomplished surgeon and businessman who died at 91 in 1999, was responsible for not only the Dahlia murder, but up to 20 additional killings in the '40s and '50s. He began researching the possibility after finding pictures of a woman who he believes is Elizabeth Short (the Black Dahlia) in his father's photo album after he died. On CNN last Friday, Steve Hodel also insisted that the handwriting on the envelope used to mail Dahlia'a belongings to the police shortly after the murder was definitely a match to his father's handwriting. The son believes his father was a prime suspect at the time, but the charges were not pursued because his dad was treating prominent members of the community, possibily for venereal disease, and the files could have been released if Dr. George Hodel was named as the Dahlia murderer.

Most reviews label the book, which I have not read, as more subjecture than substance.

I don't remember if Unsolved Mysteries mentioned anyone by name as a Dahlia suspect. I certainly don't think UM would have identified Dr. George Hodel, since he was very much alive at the time, unlike Richard McCoy in the D.B. Cooper episode.

The Black Dahlia case had double significance to Unsolved Mysteries and Robert Stack (from his Untouchables days), since there was also speculation (and a UM segment) that the Dahlia murderer relocated to Cleveland and was responsible for the torso slayings there, the one major case Elliot Ness was unable to crack, at least officially.

Awsi, you might already know that acouple of years ago a woman claimed this very same thing, that her father was Elizabeth Short's killer. She wrote a book entitled 'Daddy Was The Black Dahlia Killer', and in it claims that hypnotherapy freshened repressed memories that her father sexually molested her while dating Short. She says she remembers her father killing Short in a rage. Most people have dismissed this book not only because the author doesn't present any compelling evidence that her dad did it, but repressed memories are a very controversial subject (a lof of them aren't real, unfortunately).

I always stay away from books about unsolved murders that claim "_______ (fill in a name) did it", like the majority of the Jack the Ripper books, and also one on Short's murder entitled SEVERED. The author swore throughout that his Dahlia suspect was *The One*, and even claimed the guy made a full confession to him (ironically right before he died in a fire. hmmmm, how "convenient"). Yet this author presents no hard evidence whatsoever, and his theory is lame at best when it could apply to any number of men in LA in 1947.

IMO, no one has ever written a good, factual Black Dahlia book. The only unbiased presentations I've ever seen about the case was the Mysteries & Scandals episode and the Hollywood Babylon II book chapter, the latter one being very vicious and callous. But better than the speculative fantasy in Severed and 'Daddy'.

One of the strangest theories I've heard about the Black Dahlia case is that Orson Welles might have committed the murder. He's mentioned in a brief Black Dahlia article that appears on the Court TV website, and there was also a book written that names him as the prime suspect. The author of the book claims Welles frequented the same clubs as Elizabeth Short and that sets he designed for the film "The Lady from Shanghai" showed dismembered body parts. Apparently, these sets were designed for a fun house scene but were never used in the movie.

I have not read the book but I have a hard time believing Welles had anything to do with the crime. The thought to me is just ludicrous.

Originally posted by rerungirl
One of the strangest theories I've heard about the Black Dahlia case is that Orson Welles might have committed the murder. He's mentioned in a brief Black Dahlia article that appears on the Court TV website, and there was also a book written that names him as the prime suspect. The author of the book claims Welles frequented the same clubs as Elizabeth Short and that sets he designed for the film "The Lady from Shanghai" showed dismembered body parts. Apparently, these sets were designed for a fun house scene but were never used in the movie.

I have not read the book but I have a hard time believing Welles had anything to do with the crime. The thought to me is just ludicrous.

:confused: :eek: Now that's something I've never heard before. I haven't read the book yet either but I don't think Mr. Citizen Kane himself would do something like that.

On a slightly off-topic note, when I looked up the filmographies of Orson Welles and Robert Stack, I was surprised to find out they both lent their voices in "Transformers: The Movie." :cool:

-Makoto_4

The woman who claims Orson Welles did it was a childhood friend of Elizabeth Short. Her name is Mary Pacious (sp). I think the book is called Childhood Shadows. I thought it was very absurd, too, and note that she pointed the finger at Welles AFTER his death, which means she's immune to libel suits from him or his estate. If anyone is interested in books written on this case, go to Amazon.com, and there's a website devoted to it, though it's sort of slanted towards John Gilmore's theory (the author who wrote Severed).

I thought it made for an interesting TV segment, at least.

Here's a link: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/29/print/main527340.shtml

She fingered a painter named Walter Sickert as Jack The Ripper, after spending millions of her own cash researching the theory.

My theory is I better turn away every time they show that picture of the final victim. Talk about butchered...

Hey Awsi, I saw a story on Dateline NBC about Patricia Cornwell and her research into Jack the Ripper. I thought her theories and evidence were very well-presented and at least deserve to be taken into further consideration. UM fans should take a look at her book, or at least read more about the case. It's facinating.

When it comes to books on unsolved murders, I much rather prefer one that presents all the evidence and suspects in an unbiased fashion and leaves the readers to draw her own conclusion. But with that said, I did read Severed and The Diary of Jack The Ripper and wouldn't refuse to read Cornwell's book. It's just that biased books attempt to manipulate the readers mind and I don't like that feeling.

Anyone who are fans of true crime such as the mentioned cases may want to visit www.crimelibrary.com... often their presentations are unbiased and well written.

Yes, Awsi, that last victim was awful, actually those crimes break my heart, it's so unfortunate that the perpetrator was never caught and punished.

I thought Patricia Cornwell's presentation was enthusiastic and creative, the first new Ripper theory that intrigued me since visiting the Whitechapel sites in '90. Whether there is factual merit I have no idea. But with a birthday coming up I'll hint to a relative that her book would be a nice, gruesome-subject gift. I wish I knew how to rate analysis or speculation so far removed in time. Is it 90% of what an 1898 study would be worth, or 60%, or due to natural advances perhaps much more accurate than near-instant research would have been? Scientific evidence would be a breakthrough, of course.

Starbright, I generally prefer the so-called unbiased books, as long as they indeed present ALL the evidence of the most relevant theories. That is not always the case. I had read several D.B. Cooper books, for example, most of which dismissed Richard McCoy as a suspect or offered a skeleton portrayal of the evidence against him. Not until reading "D.B. Cooper: The Real McCoy" (hardly unbiased, not even mentioning an alternate suspect) did I realize the generic books were scattergun crap, content to ignore the obvious perpetrator in hopes of inflating and extending a mystery that is not.

I do agree with your enthusiasm for crimelibrary.com. I visit that impressive site frequently.

That is a fascinating story IMO.

I don't think that Sundheim was the Torso Killer, because the BLACK DAHLIA murder took place eight years after the Cleveland homicides.

I would also say that the story of the Torso Killer and the Black Dahlia may have been of particular interest to the late Robert Stack, since Stack was involved with the character portrayal of Elliot Ness.

But I would think that the Torso Killer and the slayer of Elizabeth Short were one and the same, because of the similarities of the modus operandi in these atrocious crimes.

these stories always pop up every few years

Hodel is interviewed in the Cold Case Files episode about Elizabeth Short. He seemed to put a lot of stock into two photographs found among his late father's possessions that he thought were definitely of Short. Even Bill Kurtis had to say it seemed like a pretty big stretch. They looked nothing like her.

Hodel is interviewed in the Cold Case Files episode about Elizabeth Short. He seemed to put a lot of stock into two photographs found among his late father's possessions that he thought were definitely of Short. Even Bill Kurtis had to say it seemed like a pretty big stretch. They looked nothing like her.

Watching Bill Kurtis hang out in California to the tune of the Red Hot Chili Peppers "Californication" was a pretty awesome moment. I also liked the fact that he had a huge breakfast. And that he said "I could spend all day in here" while rummaging through the 91 year old woman's belongings, and his friendly bantor with her. He just seems like the kindly grandfather type. Kurtis is such a fascinating individual that I found myself distracted from the real topic of the Black Dahlia.

Watching Bill Kurtis hang out in California to the tune of the Red Hot Chili Peppers "Californication" was a pretty awesome moment. I also liked the fact that he had a huge breakfast. And that he said "I could spend all day in here" while rummaging through the 91 year old woman's belongings, and his friendly bantor with her. He just seems like the kindly grandfather type. Kurtis is such a fascinating individual that I found myself distracted from the real topic of the Black Dahlia.

I know, wasn't that great? It made me love him all the more.

By the way, I could hardly believe she was 91 years old. I would've guessed she was at least 15 years younger.

Actually, here (http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/02/04/Black-Dahlia-case-may-be-solved-by-death-sniffing-dog/3861360014973/) is a fairly recent news story that Hodel's basement is being investigated and the dirt floor did get some hits from cadaver dogs. Of course, the fact that Ghost Hunters is involved doesn't really help the credibility...

I just wonder how much we should discount Hodel because of his own personal experiences, from what I remember he accuses his father of a bunch of crimes on pretty circumstantial evidence. He probably just hates his father, and frankly has every reason to

I agree it seems there may be deep family issues with Steve Hodel, but I still don't think that's a good excuse to publicly accuse someone of a heinous crime (and to go so far as to even write a book about it). Dr. Hodel may have been morally deficient in a number of ways, but there's zero evidence to suggest he even committed one murder, let alone Eluzabeth Short's.

Steve Hodel contends his father was the Zodiac killer too. :rolleyes:

Steve Hodel contends his father was the Zodiac killer too. :rolleyes:

Reminds me of Ghostbusters 2 and the bit about "Vigo the Carpathian, the torturer, the unholy..." etc. etc. :p

Steve Hodel contends his father was the Zodiac killer too. :rolleyes:

Oh boy. I think that claim severely impacts his credibility regarding his accusations in the Dahlia case.

Oh boy. I think that claim severely impacts his credibility regarding his accusations in the Dahlia case.

First time poster here. I read Steve Hodel's book a few years ago and it goes beyond just him making accusations about his dad. Granted, they had an especially dysfunctional relationship, but Hodel's own sister once filed incest/rape charges against their father as a teen and only recanted after being pressured/threatened by the department. There was a lengthy history of George Hodel being under investigation by the LAPD shortly after the Black Dahlia murder, his home being bugged and his daily actions monitored for 40 days. What remains are the DA Hodel transcripts, consisting of 146-typed-pages, which are the officers' verbatim entries during their stakeout in the basement of Hollywood Police Station, where they monitored and recorded the conversations. In fact, for a period of time, George Hodel was their chief suspect and was documented as making several especially incriminating references to Elizabeth Short.

I still don't buy it, and probably never will. I cannot get over Steve Hodel swearing up and down those photographs found among his father's possessions were Elizabeth Short when they plainly were not.

He may have been a horrible person and a horrible father, but there is no evidence George Hodel killed anyone, let alone Ms. Short.

Bear in mind that in addition to accusing his father of being both the Black Dahlia's killer and Zodiac, Steve Hodel also claims he was the Chicago 'Lipstick' killer--despite no evidence at all that Dr. Hodel was even in Chicago at the time.

Bear in mind that in addition to accusing his father of being both the Black Dahlia's killer and Zodiac, Steve Hodel also claims he was the Chicago 'Lipstick' killer--despite no evidence at all that Dr. Hodel was even in Chicago at the time.

Well, we're definitely in agreement there. I don't buy the Lipstick Killer connection at all nor the Zodiac Killer accusation. Hodel would've been in his 60's around the time of the Zodiac murders and had an assortment of health issues, making the likelihood of him chasing after victims in the Bay area while taking hits from an oxygen mask outright hilarious.

Bear in mind that in addition to accusing his father of being both the Black Dahlia's killer and Zodiac, Steve Hodel also claims he was the Chicago 'Lipstick' killer--despite no evidence at all that Dr. Hodel was even in Chicago at the time.

Oh for goodness sake... This is getting ridiculous. I could maybe believe the Black Dahlia case, but then the Zodiac? AND the Lipstick Killer?

Was his dad the Unibomber too? Maybe he was the Son of Sam? Or Ted Bundy? Did he take a trip to Russia and become Andrei Chikatilo? Maybe he's the real BTK. Is he the elusive EAR/ONS? Was he a cross dressing Aileen Wuornos? Ed Gein? Gary Ridgeway? Gacy? Was he reincarnated as Jeffrey Dahmer?

Nope, more and more, I'm thinking Hodel's motivation is selling a book and getting publicity. :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar:

Oh for goodness sake... This is getting ridiculous. I could maybe believe the Black Dahlia case, but then the Zodiac? AND the Lipstick Killer?

Was his dad the Unibomber too? Maybe he was the Son of Sam? Or Ted Bundy? Did he take a trip to Russia and become Andrei Chikatilo? Maybe he's the real BTK. Is he the elusive EAR/ONS? Was he a cross dressing Aileen Wuornos? Ed Gein? Gary Ridgeway? Gacy? Was he reincarnated as Jeffrey Dahmer?

Nope, more and more, I'm thinking Hodel's motivation is selling a book and getting publicity. :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar: :dollar::lol: I think you just solved every murder ever!

He's probably the Zip-Gun Bomber, too. After all, he needed some sort of hobby in between his bloody rampages across the country.